Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discrimination 20131104

Ill mention to others. Theres a whole raft of reasons but ill mention to others, quickly. Another argument for affirmative action was that, well, institutions say that they have ceased discriminating against people of color. Thats what they say. But what do you do if folks dont believe it . Suppose you have a faculty, lets say, a faculty at some institution. And the faculty says we dont discriminate against people of color. But the faculty is, nonetheless, all white. Well, you know, i mean, people know that for a long time there is institutions have engaged in Racial Discrimination. Onlookers say, why should we believe you now . You say youre not engaged in Racial Discrimination, but what we see is a faculty that is all white. We want more than that. We want more than your word that youre not engaged in Racial Discrimination. You may be lying, or frankly, you may be practicing Racial Discrimination and not even know it. You may be engaged, you know, you may be engaged, you may be deluding yourself. You dont even know your engaged in Racial Discrimination but you are. And so to show us that youre not we want some live bodies up there. Thats the only way that we will believe that you are no longer engaged in Racial Discrimination. Let me give you one of the rationale, and rationale that came rather late in history of affirmative action. And thats the diversity rationale, which has become the primary rationale in many quarters, particularly higher education. The diversity rationale says we want to engage in special efforts to bring in people from all walks of life, all sectors, all regions, all ideological dispositions, all races. The reason why we want this is we believe that on our campuses there will be richer learning. There will be more learning, better learning, deeper learning takes place through the clash of perspective. And, you know, students will learn from one another. So the diversity rationale for affirmative action. Thats some of the why affirmative action rose in the late 60s, early 70s but in these are some of the reasons that have been set for for affirmative action. Okay. Why is a controversial . Affirmative action like all policies has cost. It has costs. What are some of those costs . Theres a bunch just like theres a wide range of justifications, rationale, for affirmative action. Theres also an array of costs. Ill mention a couple. Let me start off with one, stigma. Its an important one because there some people, i think he neatly of the most vociferous critic of affirmative action at the United States Supreme Court, the most for surfers critic of affirmative action is the only africanamerican on the Supreme Court, clarence thomas, and he is by far the most vociferous critic. There are other critics, other very strong critics but there is no one on the Supreme Court who takes this issue as personally, and it is as intense in his criticism and it is as hostile to affirmative action and clarence thomas. And if you talk with him or read his opinions, the first thing out of his mouth is that affirmative action actually does not help its intended beneficiaries. Thats a very powerful critique because that critique is it say, listen, forget about affirmative actions effects on other people. His claim is that affirmative action does not help the people that it is intended to know. One of the things he says is that affirmative action, that it puts a stigma on its intended beneficiary. And what he means by that, what he means by that is, and again hes been willing to be very autobiographical about it. He says, okay, so imagine, lets imagine go to law school, hes a lawyer. Imagine a black person goes to elite law school, graduate from law school, and when that person goes for a job, lets say at an elite law firm for six to get a job with a distinguished judge, or seeks to get a job at any place selective. The person thats going to be assessing this candidate is going to mark down the candidate to some degree because of affirmative action. The person who is assessing the candidate knows that the school has affirmative action, and by the way, virtually every Selective Law School in the United States has affirmative action. So if you have a black person who has graduated, graduate from Harvard Law School or graduate from where he went to school, Yale Law School. They go to the fancy firm, sure, theyve got a nice brownie points they went to this fancy law school, but what he has in mind is the person accessing the candidate will say, yes, this person has a nice halo of having gone to Yale Law School or Harvard Law School, but the person doing the assessment is going to dim that halo. The person is going to say, this person went to the school but im not going to credit this person as much as i normally would because affirmative action, they might not, in fact not. They likely are not going to be as good as their peers. Thats a bad thing. Thats a cost. Justice scalia a number of years ago before Justice Billy was just as he wrote a very powerful attack on affirmative action as a law professor. And in his article he said just imagine that you are a person who needs an operation. In a very serious operation. You know, life and death operation. And you are trying to figure out what physician, what surging you want to do this operation. Youre looking and checking out various insurgents and then theres a black searching. Well, very difficult operation, you only have one life to live. You look at the surging music, the surgeon may be good but, you know, if this surgeon has gotten help along the way, maybe this isnt the best, and the best of the array of circles i might have so you might put a long as chris, although subtraction mark next to that person. Thats a real cost is he right or is he wrong . I think he is right in so far as that is a cost. I think it is cost. Sure, its a cost. I teach at Harvard Law School. Im quite sure i started i started last monday. First year contract, 80 students. I dont know this for sure but i suspect that though the very first day when i marched up to the front of the class, teaching contracts, i bet that some students, maybe i should just ask them at some point. But i cant help but think theres some students who think to themselves, kennedy . [laughter] is the, you know, real Harvard Law School professor . Or is he an affirmative action Harvard Law School professor . Good but maybe hes not quite as good as his colleagues. Thats a cost. Thats a cost. The thinking of it is a cost. Are there other costs associated with affirmative action . There are. Resentment. Resentment, thats a cost. There are many other people around the United States, plenty, millions, millions. The state of california got rid of racial affirmative action. The state of michigan got rid of racial affirmative action. Thats millions right there. There are many people around the United States who feel a tremendous sense of agreement agrees but with respect to affirmative action. Many white people feel this is reverse discrimination. Im really sorry about what happened to black people but what the heck, i didnt do anything to them. You know, i dont want my kids opportunities diminished at all in the effort to help out the black people. People are resentful about that, and that has had real consequences. Thats a real cost. Theres another argument thats offered from the left. The argument that are often made by people are sort of on the right end of the political spectrum, but theres a critique of affirmative action that comes from the left that goes Something Like this. Affirmative action has led to a misallocation of political energy, and the misallocation is because especially if we are talking about affirmative action in like ive education, where a lot of fighting, thats the domain that led to a lot of the struggle. People say, listen, if a youngster is a plausible candidate for admission to an elite law school, private or public, if a youngster is a plausible candidate to a Selective Law School or selected medical school, that youngster is doing rather well. We really dont need to worry so much about that youngster. That youngster is by definition a college graduate. That youngster almost by definition has done well as, in college, because they are a possible candidate. If youre a plausible candidate to get into the university of michigan law school, youve been pretty well. And then people say, why in the world should it be the case that people like me, or that lots of other lawyers or people in various organizations, why should people be spending a lot of time, energy, money on advancing the interest of people who are already doing pretty well . As opposed to, what about the black kids in detroit, michigan, who dont get out of high school ask what about black kids in detroit, michigan, who maybe get out of high school and even after they have gotten out of high school are functionally illiterate . Is it a misallocation of time, energy to focus on a more to focufocus on the more elite secn of racial minority communities as opposed to those who are further down on the socioeconomic ladder . In fact pushing the. 1 might say, is it affirmative action somewhat perverse isnt affirmative action somewhat perverse in benefiting those among those who need the direct assistance of the most. Is there something to that . Yes. Yes. The people who make these arguments, they are not making up things. They are not just sort of fashioning things up. Those are, it seems to me, substantial criticisms of affirmative action. Then you might say, can you be, you sound like youre for it. I am for it. Check out the title of my book, for discrimination. Hunt for it because i believe that on balance of affirmative action has been good for the United States over the past 30, 40 years. I think that affirmative action has played a very substantial part in the desegregation of important institutions in American Life, whether it be government, whether it private sector, whether it be the employment realm. And all sorts of different sectors of American Life, affirmative action has played an important role. And one of the things, you know, i think part of the proof of the power of sentiment behind affirmative action is the state to which affirmative action has been practiced by people who say that they are against affirmative action. Here im going to step outside of the racial sector for a moment and give you what i think is one of the most vivid examples. In 1980 there is a president ial contest. It features jimmy carter and Ronald Reagan. Ronald reagan, im against this affirmative action stuff. I believe individual. Lets treat everybody, and individual, individual, individual. I dont want to anything about gender affirmative action. I dont want to hear about racial affirmative action. Lets just and the people on their individual merits. Thats Ronald Reagan. President ial contest comes about. Ronald reagan says the following. If i become president of the United States, i promise to appoint the first woman to the Supreme Court. Im going to get the best woman i can find, and i tell you, if im president of the United States, the best woman jurist i can find will be put on the Supreme Court of the United States. I tossed my hat to Ronald Reagan. He becomes president of the United States, what does he do you . He makes good on his promise. Sandra day oconnor breaks the gender line on the Supreme Court of United States. Theres some people by the way, if you go back and take look, lets take a look at what the people writing. Some people said, hey, hey, this is affirmative action big time. And Ronald Reagan did not back down. Sandra day oconnor goes to the Supreme Court. Now, in part because Ronald Reagan basically, he didnt put in so many words but he basically said we can have a Supreme Court in the United States all mail, yeah, half the country is women. I mean, the institution issues going to lack legitimacy in the eyes of people. You can have an institution this powerful affecting everybodys interest, and it remained monopolized by admin. Weve got to change things, indeed it. Its that same ethos, is that same ethos that has really animated affirmative action. And i think its a good ethos. I think it has led to change and i think it has led to good change in america. It has led to people, younger people thinking, yeah, yeah, im going to invest in myself, and im going to invest in this country because i see a way forward. And i think thats a good thing. Its happened with women. Its happened with blacks. Its happened with others. I havent talked about whole lot of subject. I havent even talked about the law, you know, the Supreme Court and affirmative action. But im going to subside and we can talk about any subject that you would like, but id like to take the conversation for a way you would like to take it. We can talk about the law, anything else. You all have been very patient and so im going to subside. The florida to open to questions, comments and objections. Thank you. Yes . I have a question about another form of affirmative action which is giving scholarships, private schools give scholarships to people who are smart kids who dont have the money to go. How do you classify that form of affirmative action from which i suspect many of us have benefited . Yeah, i think that would be viewed as relatively uncontroversial thing, because theres all sorts of distinctions made in American Life, and th there are many distinctions that are made that are completely uncontroversial. We give a special benefit to people who have shown themselves to be especially skilled. We get a special benefit sometimes to people who have shown special effort. I think thats relatively uncontroversial. Others that, you know, we give there are distinctions drawn we dont even think about. You get on an airplane, i get on an airplane tomorrow. I go to fly some airline and i go to the kiosk or i go to the person, what kind of ticket do you want . Well, i want to fly first class. Of course, i never fly first class. I want to fly first class but im willing to shell out the money to fly first class but if im willing to shell out the money to fly first class, mr. Kennedy, heres your first class seat, no problem. Nobody even blinks at that. Of course, we would blink, we do more than blink if i went up and i said, i want is a very special part of your plan together for person said you can sit in the black part of the airplane for the white part of the airplane. First class is a distinction, its a money distinction, but the money distinction is, you know, thats just the american way. Its the racial distinction that makes us anxious. And you know, and the fact of the matter is theres the good and the bad with that. The good is that racial distinction, certainly the historical racial distinctions, the historical racial distinctions are racial distinctions that have put down people of color. Racial slavery, jim crow segregation. And thank goodness in america there has been a widespread, and overwhelming repudiation of those racial distinctions. And so when racial distinctions pop up, people think, oh, my goodness, racial distinction. Immediately people think of invidious racial distinction, that bad stuff. And thats good. One of the great triumphs of the civil rights revolution was the stigmatization of invidious Racial Discrimination. You know, Martin Luther king, jr. And rosa parks and Fannie Lou Hamer and fred shuttleswor shuttlesworth, you know, the great john lewis, robert moses. I could go on and on and on. One of the great things that they did is make racist, racial distinctions distinct, and nobody wants to be associated with them. Now, thats a good thing, and to the extent that that sentiment makes people anxious about affirmative action is an ironic thing. Thats a good thing. There is a bad thing, however, and thats something that i write about this in the book the good bit and i think this is often overlooked. A lot of times people dont want to hear it but i think it has to be said. Throughout the history of the United States, any policy advancing the fortunes of people of color, particularly black, has triggered resentment and triggered opposition. Let me give you a couple examples. Ill give you an example of this. This is, i mean, let me give you an example of this. This is a statement made by a florida slaveholder who was fuming at an abolitionist. This is before the abolition of slavery. This is what a florida slaveholder says to an abolitionist your he says, you all are determined to, quote, give mr. Negron more privileges than the white man. This is when slavery is going on. And already isnt this what is going on. Slavery has not been abolished, but this slaveholder in confronting this abolitionist already has in his mind the trope of reversal, reverse discrimination. If you get rid of slavery, that means that you want to privilege the blacks over the whites. Well, honey, we can laugh. Let me give you another example, much more, much i said, well, gosh, kennedy, where did you dream this guy . Let me give you somebody else. Much more consequential. Abraham lincolns successor at the white house. Abraham lincolns successor at the white house was president Andrew Johnson. President Andrew Johnson vetoed in the nations first civil rights law. The Civil Rights Act of 1866. What did the Civil Rights Act of 1866 say . That would occasion the president to be do. The Civil Rights Act of 1856 pacific anybody boarding United States of americas citizens of the United States. The Civil Rights Act also said that from not all persons in the United States will have the same rights as whites. Not more, just the same. Rights as whites, to enter into contracts, to own property, the suit, to be sued. The classic civil rights. Andrew johnson vetoed that act. Why . Because he complained saying that the act afforded quote discriminatory protection to colored persons. I object to this. He said, the federal government never intervened for anybody else, hasnt intervened for white people. And as for this citizenship clause, it will immediately make citizens for former slaves. What about all the good white people who have been standing in line to become naturalized citizens of the United States . This is discriminatory protection. And one could go on. I could go on for an hour going throughout american history. Next summer will mark the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. What was the debate like . The Civil Rights Act of 1964, segregation of senators like sam ervin of north carolina, and a bunch of others, what were they saying . They were saying you passed title vii in 1964 Civil Rights Act and tell private employers that they cannot discriminate against people on a racial basis, that will be opened up a door wide to quotas and reverse discrimination against white people. So my only point is that im not i will say this. Im not saying to anybody who is against affirmative action, im not calling anybody who is against affirmative action necessarily a racist. The people that i respect a good deal, friends of mine who balance the benefits and costs deadly than the. Fine. I disagree with them, fine. But are there plenty of people who, in fact, are racist who are against affirmative action . Truly. Why . Because they perceived, rightly so, that it advances the interests of people of color. Yeah, thats part of the story, too. Its a realistic part of the story that i think people often deny. Yes, sir. Gay, lesbian, transgender people with and what does that mean about the difficulty in sharing like legally . Well, arthur institutions that make a special effort to include people of varying Sexual Orientations . Im sure there are. Im sure there are, yeah. What do you mean, legally . I mean, are they required to . No. In fact affirmative action is nowhere required. With respect no institution has to have well, thats not thats not exactly correct. Is an institution has been adjudged to have engaged in purposeful Racial Discrimination against a group, a judge could say youve got to engage in racial affirmative action, lets say, for a certain period of time in order to make amends for your past discrimination. So for instance, the boston fire department, well, for a good long time, for at least a decade was under an affirmative action plan because a judge said you have been discriminating against like people for a good long time. So you have to have a situation where for every white person you are you have to hire a black person for a period of time in order to make amends. After that, however, no institution is required to have affirmative action. In fact, one of i think one of the justifications for affirmative action is exactly that from of action, particularly in Public Institutions, is subject to just regular politics. If youre in a state and the people of the state, lets say, dont want to have racial affirmative action, they can do what the people of california did. We dont want to have affirmative action. Okay, if you dont want to have affirmative action you dont have to have affirmative action. If however a state, you have institutions and they have affirmative action, it seems to me that the courts should butt out and let regular politics do its thing. If people dont want to have it they dont have to have it, that if they do want to have it, it seems to me they should be allowed to. We bought the house in Long Island Navy university of stony brook. They had a number of different models and i think it was open to anybody. I dont think there is any discrimination then, but i remember we sold the house in the summer of 1970, and the real estate called our house. My wife was on the phone, and was very pregnant this, and there was a black couple that wanted to buy the house. And he was asking our permission, and he was so happy that my wife said no, its fine, you know. They came and looked at the house but they decided not to bother. We were willing to sell it, but we did get a phone call from a neighbor, you know, what did she say . You showed your house a black person . I said, yes, i did. And i didnt want to continue the conversation so i just said thank you for calling as i hung up. But there was racism hitting us personally. Was this near levittown . This was further out than levittown. This was probably more beyond huntington, going out in to the island. Im interested in levittown because it had a notorious, for completely excluding black people. Absolutely. I mean, housing discrimination has been one of the most important and consequential types of Racial Discrimination in the United States. Frankly, your story is not at all surprising. I thought when you first begin, i thought youre going to say that someone called, the realtor called and said were you aware that there was a restrictive covenant attached to your house. Its still the case that many people, restrictive covenants are no longer enforceable. In fact, before we bought the house in that development, there was a Real Estate Agent may be in the huntington area, and he made a comment that they allow, and he used for blacks, i may be used an expletive, i dont know, i cabinet, but it seems that that development with his other wrist it was telling theyre letting these other people in, that it was above board spent yeah, sure. Again, thats not at all surprising. And, in fact, remember, i mean, it wasnt until 1968 that practicing housing discrimination was unlawful and a matter of federal law. It was only after the assassination of Martin Luther king, jr. That the congress was willing to pass a law saying that housing discrimination is a violation of, was willing to outlaw housing discrimination. Others . Yes. I wonder how you answer people who think that affirmative action has been around long enough, its address the problem, we need to get rid of it . Well, and there are many as four, you know, what i would immediately say is, well, one thing, i would begin by saying, well, lets think about the following. Lets ask ourselves what would happen in the absence of affirmative action. And, in fact, we know. We know. There are a number of states that have gotten rid of affirmative action and theres been a lot of study on this. What would classes look like, what would colleges lookalike in the absence of affirmative action . And certainly of the most selective institutions of higher education, the numbers of latinos and blacks would go way down immediately. So for instance, a number of years ago, a federal court there was a case involving the university of texas, federal court said that university of texas would no longer be able to take race into account in choosing students. What happened . What happened was there was an immediate decrease, very substantial decrease in the numbers of latinos, the number of blacks at the Flagship Institution at university of texas. In fact, the numbers went down, it went down so precipitously that the Texas Legislature passed a law, very interesting law, sort of law that youre going to be confronting more and more. The Texas Legislature said okay, the federal court told us we cannot take race into account. We know that if we cannot take race into account the number of latinos and blacks is going to go way down. Therefore, weve got to do something. The Texas Legislature, we are not talking about a bunch of red roaring liberals, are we . Texas. Texas Legislature Said it will simply be intolerable if we have a Public Institution and the numbers of latinos, the number of blacks is miniscule. So they said, what were going to do is were going to pass a new law and well pass a law that says if youre in the top 10 of your high school class, you automatically get in the university of texas. No matter what your test scores are, no matter how you would fare in competition. So if you go to, lets say robert e. Lee high school, im choosing the name of the high school advisedly. If you go to robert e. Lee high school and your in the top 10 , you automatically get him. At the same time, if you go to, lets say booker t. Washington high school, i get from the laughing you see what im talking about. And the legislators new they knew what they were doing. They knew that in texas, robert e. Lee high school is going to be predominately white. Partly because of what you were talking about. Partly because of, you know, housing. Anyone in the United States, you know, the white kids are going to be a robert e. Lee high school. The black kids are going to be a look at the washington high school. The legislature thought, if we can get the numbers of latinos and blacks, the latino kids are going to go to the gym high schools. The black kids are going to go to black high schools. The white kids are going to go to the white high schools. If we say the top 10 that will lead to more minority kids being able to get in. Now, and thats what happened. I go back to your question, somebody says to me, well, its been around for a quartercentury over 30 years, we can be done with it. My first thing is, okay, what is going to be your attitude towards institutions where the numbers go way down . Some people are going to say fine, tough. Okay. For me, know. I view it as intolerable and, therefore, we need to do something else. One more comment about the top 10 plan. Because there was a Supreme Court case just this last term, fisher versus the university of texas but it turned out that not a whole lot happened to i would really quite worried about this but i was finishing this book and i asked my publisher, i asked the editor, gosh, this Supreme Court case in the offing could we hold it up . They said no. I said well, could we produce the book but you leaving, lets say, five pages at the end so when the Supreme Court decision comes down i can work around it . No. [laughter] so i said okay, well, ive read all the briefs. Ill say what i think is going to happen. It turns out that the Supreme Court really punted. They didnt do much i mean. For purposes, they didnt step on my book and for selfish reasons im sort of happy about that, but this issue involving the university of texas, the important point is this top 10 plan is often referred to as an example of raceneutral affirmative action. Question, is it raceneutral affirmative action . My response is no. The legislature acted with race in the forefront of its mind. Not entirely. It turned out that this 10 plan, it was one of these examples of legislation having strange bedfellows. So you had white representatives in rural texas who also like the top 10 plan. You had these poor white kids who, if they were in the top 10 they, too, would benefit, but was raised in the forefront of their minds . It was. A lot of justices say it was raceneutral. We just have another case of what has happened so much in American Life, using euphemism, people engaging in word games to hide the ball. This wasnt raceneutral affirmative action. This affirmative action that doesnt have race written on the face of it, but right beneath the surface race is there. Yes. I look at different sections of race class, gender and so forth. So as im thinking about College Admissions and retention race and things along that line, we find that africanamerican young men are not persisting in college and they are not enrolled in college at the same rate as africanamerican women. We find that immigrants versus Second Generation african dissent are also, gender, highly represented in elite institutions, and we also know that the upper middle class and middle class black student are taking advantages of affirmative action laws and policy. So given all of these sordid intricacies, what are your thoughts in reference to thinking about affirmative action from those perspectives . First of all, everything you say is absolutely true. On my campus i see it definitely very vivid. A couple things. Number one, it is a mistake for people to think that affirmative action is going to be some sort of panacea. Its a relatively modest intervention that, i mean, i think its important that it is by no means revolutionary, for goodness sake. And, frankly, what im talking, were talking about affirmative action in higher education. We are talking about the desegregation of elitism. Thats what we are really talking about. The elite sector. Is racial affirmative action going to be something thats going to substantially affect poor racial minorities . Answer, no. Its not. Because, in fact, to take advantage of affirmative action to already have to have been doing pretty good. I mean, to take advantage of affirmative action in higher education, you had to been a pretty good student to even be in the running. So we are going to need to supplement racial affirmative action. I mean, just because it doesnt do everything, dont get rid of it. Dont say it doesnt do everything, therefore, throw it away. No. It is a relatively, its my view, a modest intervention. It helps some sectors of historically disadvantaged groups, but we need other things to address other sorts of inequalities in American Life. And it should not be forgotten at all that there are millions and millions and millions of poor white people in the United States who need help. And we need to fashion interventions to provide them hell. For goodness sake, cashman provide them hell. Dont give affirmative action because in sydney, what about poor white people . I really get hot under the collar. There are some people who say, you know, racial affirmative action doesnt help poor black people. It doesnt help poor white people. And you would think that these are raging egalitarian minded folks. The only time that they even hint at being interested in a quality in American Life is to get rid of racial affirmative action to all the other continents, they would never say anything else. They will never mention poor white people, ever. Accept an argument to get rid of racial affirmative action. So the point is that you know, he we have gender problems in American Life . Gender inequality, yes. Do we have any quality with respect to Sexual Orientation . Yes. Do we have any quality with respect to the class line . We sold millions of people who are enmeshed in a terrible policy poverty, for goodness sake. We have all of that and were going to need to craft intelligent programs to deal with all of that. One of the things i say by the way, and youve heard me, i am for affirmative action. Let me amend that a little bit. In my book i say i am for sensible affirmative action. Can you have affirmative action policies that are stupid . Yes, of course you can. Just like you can have stupid Public Policy of any sorts. At my forte stupid affirmative action . No, im not for stupid affirmative action. Im not for affirmative action that will promote people in a way that puts them in positions where they are going to do. Im not for that. Im not for promoting people to positions in which they are not going to provide good service to people. Im not for that. So im against stupid affirmative action. But i think that sensible, carefully tailored affirmative action has been a good thing over the course of our past 40 years. Its one of the things that come it seems to me that americans should be actually quite proud of. Its one of the things that enables people, older people to say honestly, gosh, yeah, i never would have thought it. Who would have thought it . Well, its good that were living in a country in which we can say, you know, 30 years ago i never would have thought that there wouldve been, lets say, a chief executive officer of the United States who checks the black box on the census. Good for the United States. Than others. Yes. [laughter] i was just wondering, i mean, you obviously know that your life escorted benefited with the perks of affirmative action. Did you ever think where you would be and where your brothers would be if affirmative action didnt exist speak was good question, racial. And it wasnt even a plant. [laughter] i actually begin the book the beginning of the book is called growing up with affirmative action. Thats the introduction. And i was really quite concerned about this because usually when i write, i try to keep myself way out of it. But this time i figured people are going to be interested in knowing well, you know, what about my state in this story. So i decided to sort of start off with it. And ill say a couple things. I make this actually, we will wind up after this. So i begin the book by talking about, i had an interesting life along the color line. I was born in 1954 in columbia, South Carolina, deep south. And my parents left the south when i was pretty young. Might parents moved to washington, d. C. In fact, i dont even remember when we moved. I once asked my father why did you move. And he said the following. He said well, we move because i feared that if we did not move one of two things is going to happen. Either i was going to kill a white man or a white man was going to kill me. My parents were refugees from the jim crow south. Like millions of people. I mean, millions of people. Have to black people you might meet, they may be from san francisco, los angeles or detroit or philadelphia. You talk with them for a little while, youll hear a story like this. Millions, millions. After we moved i would go down to columbia often and spend my vacations there. I spent my summers there. I begins the book by saying i vividly remember going to see the movie the nutty professor. Now, the nutty professor that i saw was the nutty professor starring jerry lewis. Not the one starring whats the comedians named . 80 murphy, yeah, eddy merckx. Thats the young version of the native professor. The one i saw, jerry lewis. And i remember, i remember going with my cousin. We went to the theater. We went through the side door of the theater, namely the colored peoples entrance it and we sat up in the balcony where the black people sat. Now, i viewed all this from the point of you of a nine year old, and it just goes to show you how funny things are because from the point of view from a nine year old i thought this was great. [laughter] because with a strategic position sitting up in the balcony, we would throw stuff over, and, you know, pepper the people beneath us with, you know, candy. And it was much more difficult for the people below the throw stuff back on us. I thought this is wonderful. There was other stuff that i thought that wasnt so nice. In fact, in 1962, 63, 64, those three summers that i spent with my and in South Carolina, i could not go to a public park. Why . Because the state of South Carolina closed all the public parks rather than desegregate. All of the public parks were closed those three years. [inaudible] yes. Now, let me just say this. The fact of the matter is on the race line, ive been very fortunate. Affirmative action. I am an affirmative action baby. Ive been held by affirmative action at various points in my life. I went to a very fine school, the school ive ever attended in my high school in washington, d. C. I had a crew of teachers who very close, became very close to. Those teachers, a number of them, really showed me i think special solicitude why, in part, for a variety of reasons but in part because i think they did it as part of their mission to assist young black folks get ahead in our society. That was the same at princeton. The president of princeton when i was there, william g. Bowen, very helpful to me. Later, you know, over and over and over again. Ive been at Harvard Law School for 29 years. I was not even on the market. I wasnt going to be a law professor. I was all set for my third year of law school. I was all set to go work for the naacp legal fun as a litigator one that i got it call from the law school, they said weve heard nice things about you, have you ever thought about teaching law . My response was, no, but im game. And he said, good. We will fly you out. Over the course of 18 months, his colleagues said, you know, why dont you do this, why dont you do that . They got me into it. So ive been benefited, and id like to think that i put those benefits to good use and have coming in, put them to good use for myself, put them to good use for my family. And, frankly, put in to good use for society. You all have been very kind, very patient. Thank you very much. [applause] you are watching cspan2 with the politics and public affairs. Weekdays featuring live coverage of the u. S. Senate. On weeknights watch key Public Policy events. And every weekend at the latest nonfiction authors and books on booktv. 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