Transcripts For CSPAN2 Communicators With Tom Wheeler 20170124

Publics representative. In a rapidly changing technological environment. Which is affecting the way in which everybody deals with the networks that connect us. And at the heart of that was consumers and competition should come first. How did that manifest . I think you can look at a list of things. You know, we of course had the open internet order. Which says that the internet should be fast, fair and open for everyone. We established privacy rules for networks as far as their relationship, for consumers and relationship with the networks. It says it is the consumers information. It is not the Networks Information and the consumer ought to be in control. We established cybersecurity. As an important component because of the work because we are the Agency Responsible for networks. And it is the networks that are the attack vectors. In cyber attacks. And so what are you doing to make sure that those networks are secure . At the same point in time, we increased coverage for students and schools. Here is a statistic that a three years ago when i came in, two thirds of the k12 schools in the United States did not have highspeed internet connection. And of the third that did, half of them did not have wifi connections to the students desk. Today, almost 90 percent of schools have that kind of highspeed connection to every student because of how we overhauled and expanded the program that helps schools provide for that kind of capabilities. So students can get 1 21 century education. We also did some really significant things i am proud of. For how you apply technology to the challenges of individuals with disabilities. I mean, we are in a rare point in history. Where there is, there are Technological Solutions that can be applied to challenges that have existed since the beginning of time for individuals with disabilities. And we did a lot of those. Chairman wheeler, will convince you that title ii was the right Regulatory Framework for internet . So aas you know i had a very public damascus road kind of experience dealing with how do you get to a solution on open internet . And my moment came late in the summer when i woke up to the fact that, that the legislation that i had championed as the head of the Wireless Industry association, that made wireless carriers a common carrier. But then said, lets take away some of the burdensome monopolybased regulations that have developed over time. That kind of model, which the industry sought, which congress and the fcc enacted. And which produced this incredible Success Story and american wireless. We could take that and apply the same model to the internet is a how do you say youre a common carrier with common carrier and at the same time take away some of the most onerous and old not needed aspects . There is a good chance that could be going away with the new administration and congress . I hope not. I understand that half a Dozen Companies would like to see it go away. But there are tens of thousands of other companies that rely on it. And millions of consumers that rely on it. So i hope that the congress, the fcc, whoever wants to revisit the decision will way that in the balance. And say that, you know, open networks are as american as apple pie. I mean we have an open networks in our country since back to the railroad. You know the telegraph, the telephone athey were all, you know peter, we would not have the internet today if the Telephone Network hadnt been opened so that the early efforts to get online didnt have to go through any gatekeeper. You just got on and you tried things and that is how we became leaders in the internet. And we dont want to go backwards. To a point where there are gatekeepers deciding what will happen. Joining our conversation today is Margaret Harding mcgill of politico. Thank you. Following up on that you want about empty promises or false labeling it comes to the Net Neutrality legislation. What are some concerns you have about a law that would only enshrine those three bright line rules . With the industry has been saying his love, no blocking, no throttling, no privatization. That is enough. But that is not the scope and scale. That you need to be sensitive to and aware of to have an open network. And if we define Net Neutrality or open internet by only those three tests, then we are ignoring everything else. And we are also ignoring what we know for certain is the absolute certainty thats happening which is Technology Keeps evolving and how people use Technology Keeps evolving. And how the networks use Technology Keeps evolving and there needs to be, what i keep describing as a referee on the field. To throw the flag and say no. Not that. Zero rating is a highprofile issue in the Net Neutralitys base. The Wireless Bureau recently released report that raise concerns about at t and verizon data programs. This is helping consumers. What are your concerns about these programs . You know margaret we had an ongoing inquiry into zero rating. For many months now. There are many aspects of zero rating that make a lot of sense. There is nothing wrong with free. But the issue is, what happens when someone who controls a network and also controls a Competitive Service on that network uses that network to shut down the competition for their other service . In thats what was going on. Instance, at t is saying, hey, we will deliver directv, which they own, for free for you. Wow. But then you are turning or insane but if you want to buy directvs competitor, dish or somebody else, you will have to pay the data rates associated with that and those data rates will drive the price of almost double. They are providing themselves a competitive advantage to thwart competition and as i said to peter, the goal weve had throughout the last three years is how do you promote competition . Because it is competition that protects this. But dont they own the product on the zero rating issue . Which product . The content, the on the distribution. They can give it to us for free if they want, cant they . The issue is, not in their media, they can give it to free, what they are saying is we will only give it to free if you are a subscriber to our service. And by the way, if you then subscribe to one of our competitors, we are going to make them pay us so you are going to have to pay extra or we will make you pay us so they will have two aone of the things fascinating to me about this is that the companies that are most vehemently opposed to the open internet such as anti, are at the same point in time using it to get on comcast. To get on charter, to say the law says that i have to have a competitive product that i can put on your cable system. And yet, they are turning around saying we cant have that kind of open access over and i wont network. We cannot have that fairness in our network. This is a simple question. The internet is the most important asset of the 21st century. Everything we do, all of our future is tied up in machines talking to machines, people talking to people. The Digital Future requires that the pathways that carry that Digital Traffic be fair, fast and open. Speaking in a sense to convergence, and William Kinard the former chair of the fcc, this is a quote from him. Telephony is regulated one way, cable a second, terrestrial broadcast third, satellite broadcast fourth, as the historical technological and market boundaries distinguish these blur. Do you agree with that . Barbie it to me to disagree with him who was a great chairman and a good friend. The key point in that statement was left on. Where the statutory lesson that say everything is different. One of the realities that we have to live with at the fcc is that the documents were designed in a different era. Interestingly enough they were designed with flexibility in them. But they never really envisioned some of the convergence that has happened. So thats an issue that congress has to do with not necessarily one for us to deal with. Kind of following up on that and he met with members of president elect trumps Transition Team. And some of them have advocated scaling back the functions of the fcc. During those meetings do kind of defend your view of the fcc or what you think the fcc should be doing . Well, margaret, the idea that we should scale back the fcc and give a lot of its responsibilities to the ftc is something that the networks have been pushing for years. Before i took this job there was a headline, an article in the Washington Post that said, in essence, here is how the networks intend to get the fcc. And it would be tragic if that happened. For a whole bunch of reasons. One is that a recent Court Decision in a case brought by at t, at t argued that the ftc did not have jurisdiction over common carriers and the court, the ninth circuit, went even further and said they do not have jurisdiction over common carriers which is what the statute says but also it does not have any jurisdiction over common carriers, noncommon carrier activity. Never getting down is a sum weird territory here. But what that means is that there is a serious question as to what is the scope of the federal trade Commission Based on the decisions made by the federal court on arguments first presented by those who want to, to gut the fcc for the activity of the ftc. But at the heart of everything is that the ftc, good people, great agency. But at the heart, they are enforcers. They dont have whats called rulemaking authority. They cant go out and say, here is a behavior that you should follow by rules. They say, here is something that we will punish you because we determined it is unfair or deceptive. And so it is a much more different approach than we take. And, we are an Expert Agency. They had to deal with everything from computer chips to bleach ayou know and now we are going to add telecom into that. You know i think since 1934 there have been Expert Agency agency Intel Communications and we should make it stay that way. Given that stepping down would set up an immediate republican majority and they talked about rolling back some of your accomplishments. I have to wonder why not bob tradition and stay on . This was clear. You know they asked me, they, the congress, the senate in particular asked me during various hearings, what i would do. And i told them that i would adhere to tradition. That if the control of the white house changes, the chairman resigned. If the party does not change and the chairman typically stays on and works with the Transition Team until that person, the new president gets his or her chairman through the congress. I made a commitment that i would do that. I think there is also a practical effect to the whole thing. And that is that a lot of times during my tenure, i was criticized by members of congress. Because i was advocating a position. They said you are not allowed to lobby, you cant tell us and i would just assume not be silent. Tom wheeler how would you describe your relationship to congress over the last 3 and a half years . I think it has been a healthy relationship. I have had 21 hearings. Where congress has had me up before them to discuss policy issues. We spend a lot of time, you know, not in hearings having discussion. There are clearly some differences between the republicans in congress and what we have been doing. But, you know, i have respected my relationship with members of the house and senate on both sides of the aisle. Do they get the issue that youre talking about and you are dealing with . I think they are incredibly inquisitive and trying to be informed. How has criticism for lawmakers in the number of three atwo partyline votes by the commission. What do you think has caused telecom issues to become increasingly politicized . I wish i the answers that. The first issue is that, you know 85 and 90 percent of our decisions are unanimous. But those dont get the headlines. And even when we have a three a two decision, you know there is actually a three atwo decision where i am voting with the republicans against my fellow democrats. That is effective competition. Effective competition. And, so but athis is the way i think this is the way democracy works. You decide by a majority. And we have had many successful efforts. You know, commissioner oreilly and i will rape quite successful in working together on how do we change ahe led, how do we change the rules for supporting greater return carriers and rural areas where it is expensive to provide broadband service. And i think there are areas we can all work together. But at some point in time, youve got to pull up . Do you think this leads a backandforth pingpong angles between administrations . Especially with not rolling back on your policy . Margaret, the way the Commission Works is based on a statute called the administrative procedure act. That provides that after a notice to the public an inability for the public to comment in the reply comments, the commission has to make a decision based on the record. And so i am comfortable with the record that we established. That was taken to court and the court affirmed. And i am comfortable that the requirement that you have to have a record, because remember an open internet presence, twice the court said no, you dont have the record. I comfortable that there is a record there. Could you advocate for any restructuring of the fcc . And is internal organization . So, the challenge that you have in this job is how do you make sure that you are being responsive to changes in technology and changes in the marketplace . You can do that by restructuring or you can do that by saying, there are basic principles that govern the relationship between those who build and operate networks and those who use networks. And then, collectively managed to those principles. And i chose the latter. Let me give an example youre looking quizzical. So, i said what i thought, what i called the network contact. Access interconnection. Public safety, Consumer Protection National Security are the five key touchstones of a relationship between those who use networks and those who dont. Now, you can sit down and say okay, i am going to organize the fcc that way. Or you can say i am going to make sure that i can pull expertise from this bureau and expertise from this bureau so with that we can put together a program that addresses these collectively and gets as much expertise as possible. I chose that route. Others may choose others but i chose that i could pull and choose the right kind of expertise. Does there still need to be for example, a separate bureau and a Wireline Bureau and only two commissioners can meet at a time without having an open meeting etc. . Is that frustrating . So again, the structural issue is one that is solvable by the chairman. Simply by saying, okay i am putting this task force together and that is where we are going to work this out. Okay . The thing that is forgotten a lot is that in, you know, the Wireless Bureau for instance. The Wireless Bureau handles 35,000 wireless licensed transfers a month. Now that is something you just cant throw over into another bureau. The specific issues that have to be dealt with. So, there are multiple ways of skinning the rabbit. I chose one way which is how you bring everybody together in specialized groups focused on a specific thing . And i think that is the way to do it but you know others may have other ideas. Speaking of the Wireless Bureau, the alooks like it could be possible close to wrapping up and ive noticed that the fcc has had to reduce the amount of spectrum is trying to buy back from its t. V. Stations a few times. And broadcasters have kind of question, hey, is there a demand for beachfront spectrum. So how do you square this for more Spectrum Companies with the demand we have seen in the auction . Vaccine on you know margaret, Congress Told us told us to create an option to give the opportunity for broadcasters to sell their spectrum to us and us rebranded and turn around and sell it to wireless carriers. Our job was to create the marketplace not to say how much spectrum has to clear, this is how much it has to generate. This is all about creating a marketplace and marketplaces are frequently unpredictable. [laughter] and, but i think what we are seeing right now is that we have been having this a it is successful. If it closes it will be the second largest amount of spectrum thats ever been made available in this industry. So i guess i wonder what factors you think have affected the appetite for that spectrum. If any. Would you think the demand is there as has been expressed by Wireless Companies . So, you know, again. My job is not to forecast markets. My job was to create the market. And thats what we did. Why some carriers did and some didnt, why they went for this market and not that market, those are decisions they make that our regulators should not be making. Tom wheeler is the former chief lobbyist for the cable industry and a member of the cable hall of fame and Wireless Industry. Was your reaction to some of the early commentary when you came on board that you would work to support the industries that you have already been in . You know its interesting peter, when i was the chief lobbyist for the cable industry, the cable industry was athey were the insurgents trying to take on the broadcasters and when i was a chief lobbyist for the Wireless Industry, the Wireless Industry where the insurgents trying to take on the established wireline telephones. My heart has always been with the insurgents. I am between those two. I when i started companies that were new technologies trying to be insurgents. So, you know, i think people just really didnt understand what, what my history loop really was that ive always been . Who are the insurgents today . I think the insurgents others were saying i have got new technologies. I got new approaches. And i need open networks be able to deliver them. What did you learn about the fcc that you didnt know before hand given all of your experience . What a great question. Here was my big learning moment. Peter said, i used to represent the cable industry and Wireless Industry and i will go and and i would sit down with the chairman of the fcc and i would say, let me tell you what is in the Public Interest. It just happens that what i want for my clients, as with the Public Interest is all about. And so i get this job and im sitting in the very same office that i used to go into and say, i am so certain i know what the Public Interest is and just happens to be the same thing that my client wants. And i would see that time and time again. Some come in and say this is Public Interest. It is really clear, it is what i need. And then you know 30 minutes later somebody would be in, diametrically opposed. The Public Interest is here. So i began to wrestle with the idea that the Public Interest is actually a very malleable concept. And so i started saying okay, ive got to think of something broader. So i started saying to myself, how do you find the common good . Had you find how you make the decision that can have the broadest impact, positive impact, for the most people . And that is the common good. And there are a lot of Public Interests inside that public good. We have time for one more question from each of us. Chairman wheeler we started by asking what did you get right . What is left undone . Do you wish you had done differently . Well you know, we ran on a runway on cable settop boxes. There is a great opportunity there to open the settop box and to use technology. To do that. We ran out of runway on what is called business data services. Which is a, the hauling of business data on various networks. I wish we could have gotten those done. Final question. I guess i would have to ask advice for the next chairman and the issues that you think should be taken up. I guess that is two. [laughter] you know, the fcc is the publics representative. At a network revolution. And as such, we should be guided by future chairs guided by, what is proconsumer and what is procompetition. Will be be hearing for you on Telecommunications Issues in the future . Peter, i am hard to keep quiet. Off to the Aspen Institute for a while. Yes. Tom wheeler, outgoing commissioner of federal communications commission. Thank you. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. That was outgoing fcc chair tom wheeler joining us on the communicators. President trump has chosen republican commissioner ato be the new head of the federal communications commission. He tweeted out quote this afternoon i was informed that President Donald Trump designated me the 34th chairman of the fcc. It is a deeply humbling honor. And he has been a critic of the obama administrations telecommunications policy, particularly on Net Neutrality. He also sent out a statement, here is a portion of that statement. I look forward to working with the new administration. My colleagues at the commission and members of congress and the American Public to bring the benefits of the digital age to all americans. Two republican senators propose a partial replacement today for the Affordable Care act. That would allow states to continue operating under the current laws they choose. Well hear from senator Susan Collins and bill cassidy here on cspan2. Then Senate Commerce Committee Chairman talks about the law on the internet. The energy and Natural Resources committee will vote tomorrow on the nomination of former republican Texas Governor rick perry. Two had the energy department. Mr. Perry testified last week that his confirmation hearing, we will have that later. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up tuesday morning, Pennsylvania Republican congressman keith awill discuss president trumps relationship with congressional republicans. In the House Republican agenda. Then connecticut democratic congressman jim himes joins us to talk about the democratic agenda for the new legislative session. Be sure to rc spans washington journal live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on tuesday morning. During the discussion. Republican senators bill cassidy and Susan Collins announced their plans to replace the Affordable Care act with what they are calling the patient freedom act. They contrasted their bill with the existing healthcare laws. This briefing is 30 minutes. [inaudible conversations] thank you all. I think we can start. Susan and i and we are going to tr