Transcripts For CSPAN2 Commission Holds Hearing On Religious Repression In China 20220917

Through digital authoritarianism, will come to order. Before we turn to the subject of this hearing, id like to ache a moment to acknowledge and thank President Biden for his recent appointment of five executive commissioners to this commission. This marks the first time in nearly six years that the commission includes executive branch commissioners. Their appointment will bolster our ability to bring the expertise and perspective of the various branches of government this in our work monitoring human rights and the rule of law many china. In china. And as we develop recommendations for legislative, executive ask and international action, dialogue to coordinate our efforts will be critical as it has been in recent years in implementing legislation this commission spearheaded such as the uighur forced prevention act, the hong kong human rights and democracy act and more. Today are hearing focuses on freedom of religion, authorities use in china to crack down on the free exercise of religion. While many of our areas to explore religious freedom, this is our first hearing dedicated to this topic since 2018. Recent Chinese Communist party steps use digital repression and control of religion make this especially timely hearing. As more religious activity and resources move online especially in response to covid, chinese officials expanded their use of Digital Tools to surveilled and suppressed all my religious expression. Basic surveillance technologies and biometric Data Collection track and monitor religious groups had authorities deemed to be a threat. In march this year new measures for the administration of religious Information Services went into effect to require a government issued permit to post religious content online brand will online broadcasting religious ceremonies right and services among others restrictions and freedom of religion is the measure of control individuals and communities of worship green religion the recent high commissioner for human rights report calls it one of this, a pretext conflates personal religious twist with extremism and leads to severe human rights abuses. Our first witness today is one of the most powerful forces in the world when it comes to exposing these abuses advocating for those who said they wish to exercise their basic rights system honored hes here with us. Our second panel of experts will help us understand the tools of digital surveillance and repression. The risk of this knowledge a religion spreading to other countries and recommendations for how religious freedom can respond. I look forward to witnesses testimony. I like to recognize cochair congressman for his opening,. Thank you, as determined in think its our witnesses, a core of this county. Appreciate your scheduling hearing on this important topic. The Chinese Government record of religious freedom is as atrocious as it is well document including this commission in the u. S. Commission on International Religious freedom chair we are on jehovah witness today. In our thoughts today are the prisoners of conscience who have had their religious liberty violated by the Chinese Government. Its our moral responsibility to help them tell their stories and those of the people whose voices do not just. Todays hearing will focus on new insidious methods, authorities use to exert control over religious practice including online regulation and digital Surveillance Technology. The special repertoire and freedom of religious belief recorded the Chinese Government reportedly uses biometrics, visual surveillance and personal data for Behavior Analysis traded five extremist or unhealthy thoughts. Such technologies used in counterterrorism context but in freedom of thought. This aligns with the un high commissioner for human rights recently which explains how chinese officials is used counterterrorism policy to brutally replace muslims and deny the ability to practice their religion and cultural heritage. This shows how the right to freedom of religion intersects with other fundamental rights, freedoms of speech and association, equal protection, due process, presumption of innocence, all of which are protected under International Human rights law. In this, i hope witnesses will expand the meaning of citizen position of collision, a process to course religious allegiance to the state and the party. Want to understand how many legs the teaching of religious principles to apply they support the parties ideology. Noted International Law rejects any attempt to call either religion or belief or freedom of religion or belief as justification for the destruction of the rights and freedoms of others. It shows the United States be a leader promoting International Religious freedom to be effective, you must live up to the standards we demand of other countries. We lack credibility in criticizing china for using religion as a pretext to restrict other liberties of our own government including the state level and the behavior. While china only officially recognizes five religions, our analysis and advocacy must recognize theres a wide array of religious leaves and non beliefs in the country. Regulation not only harms religious freedom but its diversity, to end last month of china suffers from a devastating heat wave, im interested in how restrictions of religion undermine the cause of Environmental Protection given links between spirituality and nature with in buddhism and taoism. I look forward to the testimony. Thank you very much. Did you wish to make opening remarks . Thank you very much, thank you for organizing important hearing on this important topic. This is authoritarianism taking place in china. Its a digital technical totalitarianism from helping more clearly illustrated in between authoritarianism totalitarianism and xi jinping to dictate ones innermost conscious belief in how one forms box to lift up prayers. For xi jinping dictates the totality of society, theres nothing beyond the communist party, nothing beyond what the communist party controls. This is not simply authoritarianism but dictated for preachers to speak of being of god and once he steps out into the political realm and criticizes the government is subjected to arrest. We see on the xi jinping the very content of belief rewriting of the words of scripture get the bible or koran conform his thoughts. Going back to the era of the worst exorcism of the cultural revolution to find anything remotely comparable while hated religions seem born in reality, grace and work against anything of the old ideas and culture, old customs, old habits. Ironically the result of the entirety of the Chinese Society to his knees with loss of face and it resulted in loss of faith in the communist party the subsequent Economic Growth and it can never fully restore plus growth of religious belief and revivalism weve seen manifested among the Chinese People today, xi jinping seeks to further control. The likes of which they could only dream of Artificial Intelligence tracking apps which brings us closer than ever before to the nightmare envisioned george. His totalitarianism is not simply authoritarianism. An oped for the Washington Post entitled the world must stand against chinas one religion. I stated, the Chinese Communist party has undertaken the most copperheads of been ablated controlled or destroyed the communities they be medication of the cultural revolution. Now during the power of religious belief has a challenge to the legitimacy trying to radically transform religion to the parties serving employing the policy known as citizen position. Thousand 2018 for the party and voted five year plan to bend religion to the goal of building socialist society is are seen documents such as the online outline of the fiveyear working plan of christianity in our country their plan. That directed christians contains principles apply to all religious believers including the leadership of the communist party by the or values to endorse the system will our cultures development the chinese traditional culture with advanced socialist culture. 2018 to today. Its only gotten worse, the chinese, spreading under xi jinping exercising control of the content of religious education and content of scripture extending geographically in hong kong where even the giant of religious freedom then arrested in may this year and scheduled to begin trials next week. Call on pope francis to speak out with clarity on behalf of the persecuted church in hong kong china. Thank you for the hearing again. Thank you. Id like to return to the witness for our panel, the chair of the Gross Commission on International Religious freedom. Born in a reeducation camp, the first several months in his life spent in detention with his mother and came to the United States in 1995 later granted asylum. A Foreign Policy expert, human rights advocate and serves as chair of the board for the human rights project, senior fellow at the hudson institute. Previously serving as president of the uighur american association. The floor is yours. Good morning thank you for inviting me to testify on religious freedom. I appreciate theirs leadership and continuing on religious freedom targeting ethnic and religious communities across china including buddhist, catholic and protestant, house church, christian and practitioners just to name a few. For decades the really communist party has played religion under copperheads of because of control. The accomplice Sophisticated Party in government parties at all level including the infamous united front First Department administration for religious affairs chinas public. Religious policies severely punished. The uyghurs and other movements case in. , the United States government formally recognized crimes against humanity. Even human rights report confirmed in crimes against humanity. The crackdown on moved religion has become increasingly harsh in recent years under the rule of xi jinping. Leading experts who call it a decades long way religious freedom in china. Xi jinpings regulations religion for the of administration of religious Information Services represents a new law for he and his government. This imposes new restrictions on religious activity and constricting their narrow space. This regulation is significant and an adverse affect. Because of the government is are persecution, many rely on homelands platforms and resources, training, religious gatherings and worship and other religious activity. These Online Platforms and apps are often the only means to which these religious communities carry out activities and connect with one another especially during the strict covid19 lockdown. Negative impact of this revelation already is felt across china since it went into effect in march, 2022. Chinas authorities recruited hundreds of thousands of other targeted in the religious content on the internet. Virtual groups were shut down no longer accessible. You surf is concerned this regulation would be to more persecution, abuses especially for groups with this connection. Relation imposes tighter restriction on state pension religious groups, groups that required to submit detailed information of authorities to apply for permit to operate online. They are required to censor religious material on the internet therefore religious groups are not safe and could be punished if noncompliant with the government policies. We are aware of the government monitoring actions censoring online content including religious material but this regulation is the first of its kind designed to target religious content on the internet and created chili effects on religious groups and individuals. Two total ban electricity religious able to operate in person or online. To cleanse internet exposure to religion came from the highest echelon of the party, xi jinping himself. After 2016 China National work attended by highlevel Party Government officials xi jinping himself expressed displeasure toward the phenomena of internet religion. Five years later after 2021 National Conference on religious work the emphasized again the management of religious affairs on the internet. Its important to note xi jinpings religion fundamentally cracks National Security. Hes underscored the need to fight against the duration of the use of religion and religious extremism including the internet. This relation is an integral part of this policy to subjugate all religious groups course and support and loyalty to the school and policy or else face severe consequences. This new regulation is the latest example extending for the authoritarianism and tries to intimidate and cost citizens to perpetuate its rules. Ethnic minority region have with the brunt of this technology in recent years as the commission has well documented. Its been exploiting authoritarianism of these countries with these requisites as well. United States Government must continue to ensure Critical Technology for china and any religious freedom abroad. He recommends United States government imposed more target tensions on chinese officials and those response will for severe religious freedom of violation especially those within the United Department United Front Department the religious affairs as well as chinas public. These entities are involved in implementation and enforcement of the new relations of internet religious activities. I like to think the commission for the opportunity to testify in the attention of all and religious groups in china and i look forward to your questions. Thank you for your testimony. We will now have a round of questions from members of the commission with us. We are allocating seven minutes to each which i encourage people cap up there remarks if they are hitting that boundary. It began by noting youve been a target of these threats as many uyghurs. As this transnational depression targets leaders and tibetans, human rights advocates, journalists and others outside of chinas borders, what should the United States do to address this problem . Thank you for bringing up my own experience at least in the past in particular so i came to the United States in 1995 and now im an american citizen. Chinese government is retaliating against my family and advocating strong human rights policies through my professional work and efficacy. I was sanctioned by Xi Jinping China and sanctioned by putins russia. The consequences are very serious, i still have my mother living in, it is china whom ive not seen since 2004, the last time i saw her was when she was here with my late father for my Law School Graduation and i dont even know if i will see her again. This is a hostage taking, direct retaliation against u. S. Officials and against american citizens of exercising his or her freedom of speech in the United States so i am grateful itself and other members of congress paying attention to this but we need clear policy that includes legislative mandate. As far as i know, theres no legal tools available to go after those individuals engaging in transnational transgression. I do believe they are good within our government but we need clear guidance. I think congress can play a significant role and i would like to see Law Enforcement act more coherently, even aggressively. Fbi put something out thats very helpful but at the same time, the Community Feels helpless u. S. Government even Law Enforcement role is clearly described mandate is in the weaker rights policies. Also our government needs to understand what transnational repression entails. That can be done through human rights reports, public education, it can be done through hearings like this. Id like to see the officials responsible for designing, carrying out transnational repression whether moscow or elsewhere beijing, face consequences, they should not be allowed to come to the United States and liberal democracy allies should consider similar measures. Why would they stop these behaviors if they dont face consequences it is simple so we need to act societally, governmentally and with our partners and allies who value human rights and freedom of speech and religious freedom. Mr. Chairman, you have to unmute. Thank you very much, it happens at least once a day. Thank you for your response and i will keep raising the issue of transnational repression often think about human rights issues inside other countries and certainly that is our role as commission in terms of what, what china is doing outside of china and inside the United States violating the human rights, the residents here. Ill turn back to whats happening inside china. In your testimony, you note the action xi jinping draws between the management of religion and National Security. As i noted, you called this pretext serious human rights violations. What more can be done to the Chinese Government and other governments cannot hide behind this socalled counterterrorism or extremism to flout binding International Human rights laws in regard to religion. In 2014, the Chinese Government National Security strategy billy stated the freedom that they cannot stand. And national appeared security. Even though religious freedom is something constitutionally guaranteed with the specific language such as religious faith, the party has never interfered or allowed citizens to practice, its only on paper. National security concerns, the convenience of the chinese in particular, the weaker religion is the fact that it can be to counterterrorism or fight against forces as they say and terrorism. Even to this day after the un recognize the crimes against humanity underway, the chinese diplomat here in washington and beijing, repeating those and they may underestimate the intelligence of the people in the free world that they can tell this is not the type of counterterrorism United States government sees. The chinese can say this even more but it doesnt hold water. Heres the important aspect of what they are trying to do. This is all about preemptive policing. The cancerous tumor needs to be cut or killed with a spray of chemical, its part of the public remarks. Like we are islam to mental islam, it normal and former ambassador to washington said those people need to go through transformation to be normalized. The tumors of the viruses and the Chinese Government is National Security concern needs to cap refer the ticket on the butter organ and i dont think the United States government religious freedom human rights National Security concern, we deal with it as it turns into a humanitarian crisis, genocide, war crimes, it becomes a costly operation so id like to see the government and this agenda is intended to put in place in the religious freedom act. This seems to be an integral part of our community specifically in our Foreign Policy engagement with the government and the religious freedom of rights efforts. Thank you very much for your insights and use of your role to be such a powerful waste for the screen when the world. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This agreement is up for renewal next month and last week secretary of state expressed his confidence the agreement would be renewed saying and i quote, when you negotiate with someone, you must always start recognizing good faith. I would not have said a Statement Like that, what is your assessment of the state of ethics in china today . Of a subject to the same level of said association of other religions and as mr. Smith pointed out, he goes on trial next month in hong kong, do you think that can authorities have been enough to defend him . Weve been publicly expressing concerns. With respect to persecuted catholics in hong kong and china, the battle against them includes the christian catholics in china. The Chinese Government for religion tells we can muslims. It has worked and no one essentially pays the price for it, the chinese leadership around the world and showing the leadership in the separate, the cause has not been serious enough. The Catholic Community in china does not have the voice they should have in this discussion. I worry same method implemented in the wieger homeland without much consequence will be implement to in the christian community. We see signs of similar testing practices for churches in china and putting up xi jinpings pictures. In practice this religion. So now what these efforts they are rewriting the koran to make it communist ideology is religion, is not a religion. This is a destructive effort and i dont know how many times i have to say this but what is the cost of this leadership coverage . Will be a proposition in leadership, where are the allies . Where the liberal democracies who believe in human rights and religious freedom . Unless theres a global effort we impose serious cost of this leadership and they will continue with impunity. Thank you, everett appreciate your response. Buddhist value of the preservation of the Natural Environment is an integral part of their belief system. This is true of others including chinese buddhist and religion practitioners. How should we look at governmental destruction including that by Climate Change on the religious freedom of these faith traditions . Some people describe it as a technical desert, earlier targets for ccps environmental destruction. They still use the calls in the case of tibetan destroying forests and serious Water Pollution in the tibetan area and the Chinese Government attempts to mass migrate moving people from internal parts of in the chinese cities also creating pressure on peoples lives. In recent years as topic talked about enough as it has been in the past. We need to Pay Attention, i worry the chinese are trying to buy time waiting dalai lamas time to expire and it will be a disastrous situation both inside and outside of tibet. We dont know the whereabouts and it should concern us so comes down to this view of religion. Religious freedom that naturally brings people and makes the society prosperous. Instead of spending billions in domestic security and the population were fearful of their own population. Living the life they want to live so in the long term the Chinese Communist party for worldwide concerns also creating longlasting effects on the Chinese Society. Thank you and i yield back my remaining time. Thank you, congressman smith. Thank you for your treatments. First of all, thank you for your extra day leadership, courage and the fact that family members, your mom are at great risk for the chinese commonest party, you speak with clarity and precision and courage. I cant thank you enough for that leadership. You are a blessing to the commission on religious freedom, thank you again for your leadership. The vatican agreement, when i was chairman of the commission, i did travel to the vatican and i asked secretary of state not to engage in that agreement, not to agree to giving xi jinping power over which i think is absurd and completely undermines the Catholic Church and ive met many members of the church and country including bishop in the province out of prison, almost 40 years, no one knows for sure how many because hes died since. The underground Catholic Church has been hurt severely brevis i also think it has a Chilling Effect on the churches voice speaking out for the tibetan buddhists and protestants and solidarity with the persecuted base and it does not have the same articulation it would otherwise have. I hope the church will reconsider its position seriously. Time we have sanctions, trying to hold those most responsible for their egregious behavior to account but in march i introduced hr 7193, china trade relations act in 2022 and that would reestablish human rights linkage to trade relationship with china. May 26, 1994 bill clinton human rights, i believe very passionately thats in the Chinese Communist party said they just care about profits and the balance of trade and last year was well over 350 billion. They are an export economy, if weve had human rights linkage that was serious and said unless there is serious progress in human rights, religious freedom is at the core, they would be in this policy and reforms when they think we are flopping and we talk and dont have linkage to trade, i think we lose the opportunity to protect the sanctity of a religion in all religion and religious practices in china so you might want to speak to this but i do think we need to get more serious about this. Had we had it since 1994, i do think reformers of some kind but make sure this only called china make systemic changes in their barbaric practices especially religious freedom so you might want to speak to that, id appreciate it. If not, i understand but i think we have to get more serious. China has so exploited this relationship and brought to their sure dual use items that have transformed them into a superpower so the military died alone showed them the ropes they sometime hope to us with so if you could thank you so much. To use this time to bring something that supports for ideas which was last december most people in the United States around the world noticed something significant which was the United States government throughout the Biden Administration sanctioned, they added the chinese medical academy, 11 affiliates, the experts. For developing is to be used on religious groups especially the uyghurs. It didnt catch much attention so this focus target sanctioning and it needs to continue to happen so why would the Chinese Government develop this used. They used to control the behavior of the wieger people and now they wanted to control them. The communication between ukraine, you will need to look at and it is the regime that should come across as alarming news to all of Us Technology and Economic Development and freedom of the chinese progress has some people making flattering statements on tv and its essentially specifically chinas Economic Development, its not a moral progress. Chinas technology has been enabling collective punishment and enslavement of vulnerable population and now the chinese surveillance, this technology has become part of life. In places of worship in churches and temples, every aspect of the people within communist china are subject to this level of surveillance. Weve got to do something about it. The one thing i have in mind and congress should consider is putting in place Something Like the corrupt practices act. And 70s this was enacted it was not known to most people. Its an effective tool around the world today, uk has similar measures and instead of going to foreign countries, we export covid practices. Global businesses communities following this, we need Something Like this when it comes to techno authoritarianism, authoritarianism. Its a serious album and about our future. If you dont stop this, this will become a serious problem, it creates minimalist challenges and religious freedom. As authoritarianism regime, will monitor order records and parties activities, its a threat to democracy at bare minimum. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, congressman smith and now we will turn to the senate side. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for your service and testimony today, i led a delegation to india a week and a half ago and had opportunity to meet with readers, the cta, can you characterized based on your knowledge of understanding ccp use of Digital Technology for purposes of control in tibet . Thank you, senator. Weve been hearing this and reading about it that this statement, the Surveillance Technology and it started and mail and china and the United States government sanctioned who was the communist party and was incremented in tibet, it was successful. He was promoted in august 2016 and the security detail and was in new york so the tibetan people were early by this early on. And its been a much bigger operation when he took the same practice over, he is given resources, authority. And it was a nightmare so tibetan people are not only subjected to the as noted earlier, we need to Pay Attention to them and they are facing existential threat stemming from beijing and serious leadership threats under chinese custody. We have to implement existing laws designed for their lives, im glad we have undersecretary of state who are special corners of tibet in previous several years somebody who knows the tibetan leadership in the community, i was so frustrated our government did not even open its doors, former president of the Tibetan Administration were not even allowed to enter the white house will not even entering the state department, officials went to the hotel to meet with them. The laws are put in place to follow, we have to implement the laws in respect to the uyghurs, otherwise it of meaningless effort. We have to go back to the way we treated this tibetan issues with seriousness. I know weve not been able to make progress as we have wanted but we have not been persistent in our efforts. Thank you, chairman. Id like to ask you as well how you have observed and understood the same technologies techniques and tools used to surveillance repress religious minorities used to target journalists. I cant emphasize enough sophistication of the chinese surveillance. Unlike other governments, the chinese have no resource problem, theyve been pouring in billions of dollars into the r and d and control of the tech companies. The reason journalists have been kicked out a couple of years ago they start coming back for a long time Washington Post not even a single report until recently in china the chinese wants to hide their crime, continue to conflate, confuse the international community. The Chinese Government was to continue to engage in disinformation because journalists, specifically western journalists into investigative journalism, try to get to the bottom of it. An attack on the western journalists started when even was prime minister. The former journalist, one of the first ones kicked out of china, what she did was do her job, the chinese could not get her in this practice continues. We doing the same thing is the social media doing the same thing for example today is a guy from the global times to put up inflammatory offensive state with the social media where is our journalists couldnt even go there too report from the ground so it needs addressed at the highest level and one other thing, there surveillance of journalists and citizens, i took her firms are as oe, state owned enterprises. As written in several books recently, Chinese Government has a number of headphones, its also in a book i wrote about, a german scholar, german journalist has a book called weve been harmonized and it describes every red phone directly to the leadership to the leadership apparatus controls hightech so if the ccp does not like any citizen or entity or even foreign officials, they can order them to do the things that serve their interests so centerpoint in the system and i dont think we are paying attention. Thank you for your testimony and service, appreciate it and look forward to following up with you and i yield back. Thank you and will turn back to the house side. Congresswoman hartzler. Thank you for your courageous leadership in providing this information. It is sorely needed. I would like to expand on the comments you made here answering questions but also your testimony where you talk about ccp is the next authoritarianism and others countries and oppressive regime emulating this china model and human rights advocates and you say our government must continue to ensure Critical Technology is not exported to china and contributes to religious freedom of use. I wonder if you could list examples of the countries where its been exported to and specifically what radical technology you are referring to, 5g technology . Youve talked about tibet but could you outline the countries where they export and specifically what they are exporting so we could be fully clear and aware of what we need to watch for and what to stop. Thank you. First of all, the equipment still get supports from our supports. So when was added to the entity list, Financial Times reported, a conversation with one of the folks so our phones are equipment and this will be disastrous for the company for the company to catch up with the technology and support they receive from Silicon Valley, it takes decades so that is the reality of the chinese hightech industry and i cant say this, im not a tech person but i can say this based on the reading ive done, Silicon Valley has been complicit. We need to look into their role, eliminate gray areas in the laws of regulation and make it difficult for Silicon Valley companies to continue to find a way, even entities at or sanction, theres a way around it all special license, away they can continue their business practices. And we need to look at decidedly and governmentally based on the book i was referring to, hospitals and schools, prisons, one of the military bases or embassy in afghanistan not being used using this kind of camera. We know its a government enterprise linked to the ccp in the United States even today you can find heat vision cameras, its available. The third thing we need to do is talk to our european allies, its not about the United States or a company for our geopolitical interest, its about the future, the european communities still not on the same page as we are when it comes to these serious threats. Finally, we need a judicial process, Law Enforcement process to go after businesses, hightech the business presence in the United States. No International Law that addresses their complicity in the human rights, genocide in china for example but we do have federal court. Some Chinese Companies present in the United States subject to local federal courts jurisdiction, why cant the Justice Department opened an investigation . To the companies here indicated in the human rights abuses. Laws are put in place to enforce so this has to be looked at diplomatically, legislatively and a Law Enforcement aspect. Thank you very much, i introduced this to the mba a a few years ago specifically so heat vision cannot be sold in our country anymore so im concerned to hear they are still present so i will be looking into that. I know many of us here on this hearing are concerned about that thank you for giving an update on that, it very concerning. On another subject though, i want to bring up defending freedoms project, im a congressional advocate for three chinese christian prisoners, pastor john saul, pastor john and pastor ron. These brave men hearing about their stories on the internet but my question is, do you think their efforts to center and shut down online information for religion will have an impact on our access to the pastors information here in the United States and how would you recommend advocates continue to support current and future victims of religious persecution should access to the stories be limited or removed . This is an important question not only are we not going to be able to get access for simple communication with anyone outside the country perceived as hostile to the ccp has a consequence. They monitor medication, access to certain webpages. Sorry for bringing up the uighur situation the bone has to be scanned by mobile police, the local Police Station set up the streets. One place thats been successful, its reasonable to expect the chinese will transfer this to the other provinces because its an insecure regime careful of population, people of faith, a desire to be left alone so they will do this any justification at any cost so its a troubling trend. This database not only in china but outside of china has been subject this. Websites regularly attack by chinese actors and now we have a new trend, i dont know if this is the case today but when i was testifying in the summer of 2021 at a hearing, the Youtube Channel have lots of disinformation on the right far while having the hearing on the left side of the screen. Our firms again need to step up. We need to be able to technologically be able to support those who are courageous to share information with us. Is legume with him and to label religious communities. In theory and. Thank you. And thank you congresswoman and thank you ms. Your three. In panel and owned by the witnesses for the panel to turn on their videos and i will give them an introduction and then we will dive in. Lets start with the associate professor of Political Science at the university of notre dame. She specializes in the study of contemporary chinese and russian politics authoritarianism in religion and politics. She is the author of religion and authoritarianism, cooperation conflict and the consequences. She is the coeditor of citizens and the state in authoritarian regimes in china and russia ended like to know she previously taught at the university of oregon. Chris mesereau is researched director the Brookings Institute Emergency Technology institute and a foreignpolicy program. His research is focused currently on increased exploitation of Digital Technology returning regimes and nonstate years. Hes the coauthor of a report on how russia and china are exporting authoritarianism and is testified to the commission on International Freedom on the digital repression of religious minorities in china. Ellen dirks is a postdoctoral fellow at the citizen lab of the university of toronto. His research focuses on the policing of socalled china citizens of the ministry of Public Security used as threats to social stability and National Security as well as police led mass dna collection and surveillance programs. Her most recent publications concerned mass dna Collection Programs in china. Thank you all three of you for joining us for this hearing. Without objection your full written statements will be entered into the record and ask you keep your remarks to five minutes. We will begin with dr. Hazel. Its a morning and thank you. Chairman and distinguished members of the Commission Im honored to participate in todays hearing. In my remarks will focus on three longterm strategies each with their Chinese Government control over religion and implications over religion on the ground ground. As you know contemporary china represents one of the most environments for religion in around the globe and the reach of the Chinese State into religious life is extensive. It established control by utilizing technology. The past decade strategies of religious management have expanded development and digital and Surveillance Technology. These technologies facilitate systematic and coordinate efforts to collect information to monitor and target religious communities. Especially those perceived as operating outside the state parameters viewed as extremists. The chinese surveillance tape monitor social media to identify and collect information on religious believers and their networks and uses both map to transmit information on user activity and their locations facial Recognition Technology and services. Religious life is extensively monitored at every level in public and private and virtually paid the implications technologies accelerates the station in the in private. They tend to churches practitioners popular but you prosecute difficult to the with him fighting in the on qalat at his could have been asked over the past decade. Is a longterm strategy to manage religious foreign by making it more chinese. More importantly to instill fealty to the party. Citizen station prior to his indication of politics and ideologies as well as support for the leadership of the party at the center religion. At present in china there is no central policy articulating how it should develop. Instead its left up to five patriotic associations. It is within each of these plans we see the clear what occult direction. The catholic time for instance of surf city cessation requires a conscientious approval of politics and obedience in the national regime. The private plan calls on pastors to harmonize teachings with ideology and core socialist values. The buddhist religion practices the study of thought and dawa some and indigenous religion in china has the developed a plan. The takeaway here is it centers on the part of vacation of religion a strategy to politically or yet chinas culture or chinese values. One implication is that since thats a citizen citizen nations are quite anything for religious communities have some flexibility in interpreting citizen station and its content to allow some latitude so long as the effort shuns necessary reverence. The longterm impact remains uncertain. Her main be seen whether citizenization will rein in religion cultivate loyalty to the party state or divide religious communities internally. Historically processes of citizenization encourage religious growth so this may be one outcome. The final strategy was to highlight is more outward facing the socalled strategy luncheon to xi jinping which brings together party and government officials prominent religious representatives and it at the pemex to counter what is received as u. S. Led International Efforts to promote religious freedom. They are shifting from defense to offense to global. The broader goal to counter into quiet foreign advocacy for religious freedom. Id like to close with a few recommendations. U. S. Advocacy for religious groups in china calls for freedom and human rights can backfire because we know and weve seen evidence of fomenting instability in trying to divide the country however there are steps we can and should take to support freedom of religion and beliefs. Bilateral engagement. We consistently raise issues of human rights in china in public and in private meeting with their chinese counterparts. We asked him to take action especially a muslim majority world. Second money to build expertise. We need to prioritize domestically to maintain expertise in china. Its a National Security imperative that we impress the increased support and training of American Students and scholars in china and chinese language. In closing it like to thank the commission for your tension and leadership on this important set of issues. My written testimony elaborates an offers additional recommendation and i look forward to ought answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you dr. Koesel and we will turn to dr. Three chance to share my thoughts and how that came to pass a unprecedented challenges it poses for freedom of religion within china and around the globe and how the United States should respond. After the arrival of the internet in china in the 80s the Chinese Congress party was quick to recognize the risks and opportunities posed by digital to elegy and begin building out an unprecedented apparatus for on line surveillance. Xi jinping to power in 2012 and consolidated that operettas were also investing heavily in the equivalent infrastructure and training to build up surveillance programs like early pilots. Since he systems often lacked due process and public oversight the new regime has effectively held out the worlds most conference of digital architecture. Unfortunately the new regime has also built out an illegal architecture. Most notably aging is thought to reign in extremism. The regimes efforts to curtail religious freedom extends well beyond that. In 2016 they held the today conference with strict religious religious to actively guide the adaptation of religion. Several years later another set of regulations come into effect requiring religious organizations to quote spread the principals and policy for so farreaching that amp utters. Based in the Chinese Communist the regimes to religion directly converted the took religion directly converted the effort to expand the jewels with through all chinese measures to regulate on line where does this activity before he brought the issue to the fore at the end of last year. In. Did rather now have Clear Authority to extend its watchful eye of her people of faith. For chinese citizens what it means is surveillance of regulatory systems have been long monitored with public religiosity. Smart phones in cars that facial recognition and contrasted it across the city making it difficult for private religious committees to operate unprotected. Scanning is made possible to protect private religious actively downloading the dalai lama and Smart Television cell phones make it possible to remotely watch within the home. Most importantly the knowledge of state authorities are able to monitor privately of religious religious activities can create a Chilling Effect that ultimately seeks to deter individuals from engaging in private religious expression at all. With its chinas ongoing covid policy exacerbates these trends. On line platforms and smart lone pine applications that enable churches and other crustaceans to remain the recent on line regulation does remove the chaos for exercising private and public religion at a time when its needed most. Its devastating as the authoritarianism is for the Chinese People there will not a health within chinas borders but the country is not only imported messaging applications like we chat monitored diaspra commits the products willingly hold surveillance technologies from over 80 countries including those like iran this book leaders have lauded chinas surveillance model for targeting religious minorities for repression. The expansion of Surveillance Data crackdown on religious activity on line and offline will respond it in his face. Although the Biden Administration is taken a hard line particular and denying it access to advanced technology and surveillance in guidelines much more can and should be done. Most notably the u. S. Government needs to formulate a coherent plan globally and is importantly organized itself in the longterm nature of that threat. Absent a more comprehensive and consistent approach to system the digital repression is so tragically denied it will not only persist but will be replicated among religious communities across the globe globe. In closing thank you again for the chance to testify this morning. And even more for casting light on the daunting era of religious persecution that the Chinese Communist party has ushered in. Thank you dr. Meserole and now i will turn to dr. Birx. Distinguished members the commission thank you for holding this hearing and invited me to participate. My testimony is like to highlight three aspects of the Chinese Government control over religion and authoritarianism. One chinese pleasing due to widespread visual surveillance. Two to surveilled these practitioners chinas please cooperate with other parties and three police are now engaged in a nondna Collection Program targeting people of tibet. Understanding the surveillance programs developing effective policies requires researchers capable of analyzing chinese sources. Today i will recommend United States government provide greater federal funding to chinese minority language learning programs in universities. My first is chinas police physically savelle prep tesners. Operating outside of china system recognizes religion and includes church of almighty among others. Chinas police practitioners are targeting people and is targeting people practitioners are surveilled for their beliefs on databases. Please collect personal data from practitioners and categorize them according to the level of threat they pose. As a form of digital surveillance these databases restrict religious freedom. Their associate with machines and national i. D. Cards. For example when a practitioner uses their national i. D. Card and alert is sent to local police. Based on this alert police can intercept a practitioner here detain them. However please cannot control part is nursed a digital surveillance surveillance alone. This leads to my second. In order to deepen statecontrolled practitioners Police Routinely collaborate with other parties to visit practitioners in their homes. On the one hand authorities may provide economic advantage listeners. Its meant to encourage practitioners to main to return to Mainstream Society pinetta hand its use to search for evidence of ongoing worshiper toward practitioners against associating old believers. It can strengthen digital surveillance. Home visits party state officials collect personal information on practitioners which is then added to the police database. They have long used home visits and digital surveillance for religious minorities. Even prior to schneiders of an officially recognized religion like buddhism are subject to state control. Under the Xi Jinping Administration new forms of diametric surveillance have emerged. This brings me to my third. In 2016 police in the autonomous region have engaged in dna Collection Programs targeting the whole of the region. Its unconnected to ongoing criminal investigation. Police have targeted entire communities of men women and children. The scale of dna collection is immense. My Research Just since june of 2016 policemen collected dna samples from one quarter to one third of tibets population. Dna collection appears to be ongoing. A mess dna database give police a powerful car tool of social control to use against the people. The digital surveillance bureaucratic corporation and mass dna collection chinas beliefs or press the ethnic and religious committed to understanding these developments requires researchers capable of analyzing chinese language sources. According to some reports the study of Foreign Languages at colleges is declining. This is worrying. This trend is not reversed is not reversed United States government may information understanding the control of religion through digital authoritarianism. This internal undermined United States governments capacity to give effect to the policies but a recommend the United States government to do things one increase federal funding for chinese language programs at universities and colleges in two increase federal funding for language learning programs that university and colleges focus on minority languages spoken in china including tibetan dialects and others to increase funding for language studies will lay a Strong Foundation for future research into the control of religion or digital authoritarianism in china. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today that the torture questions and comments. They are really appreciate the testimony from all three of you and i wanted to start with a question in trying to understand better the control of information and i was thinking back to 2011 when majority leader reed organized a group of Bipartisan Group of 10 finishes visit china hu jintao was a leader of china and everything we heard why we were there was about how things were opening up, and there was less repression of religion, that labor leaders who had concerns were being encouraged to present them so those issues could be addressed and environmentalists who are raising concerns about pollution were no longer considered critics. Helpful advocates on how to address serious palms in just the whole trend and then in 2012, 10 years ago xi jinping became secretary and will probably soon the a signed to his third, fiveyear term, and it feels to me as an outside observer and not an expert that his personal vision for china has been driving a reversal of the trend that we saw in 2011. So i wanted to ask and i dont want to take up the whole seven minutes with it so perhaps dr. Meserole do want to take on this question . Is it right to perceive that xi jinping is driving this it was progressively built out in china. What changed the xi jinping was twofold. On the broader sense of opening unit mentioned there was the series of reforms that the xi jinping era ushered in in the sense that china needed to open up engage with the rest of the world including their Economic Growth. It proved tremendously successful to Economic Growth that they were able to achieve. By the time xi jinping came in i think that growth had slowed a little bit and on top of that he himself inherited an administration that decentralized for three decades by that point decentralizing out the centers of power within china and is an example of that theres Something Like 60 different regulatory agencies when shes in pain came to power from the first things he did was consolidate all of those agencies and the Administration China and elaborated with the control authorities were in different agencies. As a result theyve been able to exert greater and greater control over the digital Surveillance System to the point where now the scale scale and extend the reach all of which are unprecedented. He is certainly the most responsible for how its directed at this point. Especially in light of its alarming to have so much control over it or it this digital surveillance is scary and then if youre in the dna database surveillance and its reminded of a movie from 25 years ago. The name came from the four bases of dna and nobody could move without being watched very carefully both from the perspective of what they were doing on line and their dna. And here we are Science Fiction has become a reality. One of the pieces of this is the monitoring of web sites and help us understand this. We hear that you now have to be registered to be able to have a web site that expresses anything that involves religion. In my mind im picturing a system where no flights are allowed to be accessed unless they are preregistered or picturing some kind of great firewall. There are 1000 chinese tracking every church in the world on the web and saying their web site cannot be accessed. Is it an opt in or opt out system . Im really struck benefactor that we can now not put your baptism up on line or a sermon up on line. The the gap was shut down just last month. In may of 2022 so just a few months ago China Association reported the web site that had been up for 21 years the repository for music in hymns was shut down and so on and so forth. Help us understand how the web site control is being operated. Its a great point. I would say there are two levels of censorship of religious activity. If you are a church or a mosque in china and you are trying to have presence one option is to go out and register a domain on a web site that your Organization Controls peer to do that you need to register. There used to be when somebody logged into a browser and enters your url to visit your site on the backend is a database of the names that can take that string of tests that you arent into fewer auto url and translated to the server. What china can do is basically say you need to have a certain registration requirement to get a domain name and not global database of domain names in what servers they point on the internet or in its this crucial choke point where the human readable part is the digital numeric part of the web and they can actively and easily set up processes where you might need to register for a license and that will be tied to an essential database. So thats fairly straightforward its something that the government will be in control over. The other way to do it is even now in the United States where you see religious communities on my sometimes by the register web site. Though the one facebooking uses social media app with their name. Similar things can happen within china where the responsibilities lie with less with the stadium or the companies. One of the things im most concerned about with this new set of on line religious organizations is the same thing we have seen play out in the nonreligious based or commercial entities within china are held more and more responsible for taking a stance that will come into play with religion. That application is possible for centering and they are going to be more conservative than the government in many cases in censoring content because for them its not clear, its not always clear. Between that and the domain registration issue its very straightforward with religious groups from having an on line presence and being able to communicate that there committed to that way. Its scary as and im worried about all the this will affect the United States as well. As we address the challenges of technology. What china is doing in the example of setting for other a torrid authoritarian regimes is transforming the world so glad were holding this hearing. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. Dr. Dirks thank you for the detail in your testimony on the question of dna in the tibetan autonomous region. Its very troubling and i know its not isolated. Human rights watch says coercing people to give blood samples can violate an individuals right to seek dignity and right to bodily integrity and may constitute degrading treatment and is a serious human rights violation. What steps in the United States to ensure American Companies are not complicit in this or the Research Efforts to use this data . Thank you very much. The program has Detailed Research by human rights watchs. In terms of how the United States government are allies and sure Chinese Companies are not involved in these programs one of the ways is to examine them to ensure they are not being used. For example in tibet. Again going back to my recommendations one of the things that this requires a researchers able to dig to the public records offered in chinese. Again its vital that we provide funding to chinese language probe aims to ensure researchers are capable of doing this opensource research in the future which in turn would help to inform the u. S. Government policies. Thank you. Mr. Meserole he testified to chinas role in the digital Surveillance Technology and providing the model that normalizes the practice of religiously motivated repression globally. You specifically cite the case of saudi arabia on the fact that it is used as israeli tech. From the perspective of the individual to the human rights implications differ depending on the status of relations between u. S. Government and the government doing their surveilling and this Public Policy matter with the challenges of digital authoritarianism be better addressed by focusing on the technologies and the user by focusing on select countries . I think i will the answer to the first part of the question whether the individual experience matters. If you are being denied your ability to exercise your religion im not sure you care whos in control of that. It does matter i think for u. S. Involvement in the sense that we have leverage over regimes that we can use to exercise to get them to push back on this technology and thats where i would go to the second part of your question about authoritarianism but i think we want to highlight certainly there were seems like china and iran and others that are actively developing these systems. My big fear is there are 5 billion people who are in the u. S. Or europe and. Digital infrastructure is out now. We need to have a proactive and coherent set of Foreign Policy effectively for how we want to handle these challenges of authoritarianism so individuals around the world are able to exercise their religion freely for worship freely and go on line freely. It would probably be better served if there was a single coherent policy toward digital authoritarianism rather than what we see now which is china pops up and do something in iran pops up and does something in we are at dressing on a casebycase basis as opposed to taking a coherent direction especially given the longterm nature of the challenge. Thank you very much. Dr. Koesel what are your thoughts on the renewal of the agreement that the vaticans position going in. Thank you for your question congressman. I should start by saying i have a repeat the documents that dont believe they are publicly available so going into it i think its more but we didnt see as to what will come out of this agreement. We havent seen what this will mean or religious communities on the ground within china especially the Catholic Church and whether we will see a greater integration between underground catholics and official Catholic Church. I think thats the hope potentially coming from the vatican that this will be a pathway to allow greater expression for religiosity and the healing and bringing up his churches together. At this point its wait and see until those documents whatever will be released is available. Thank you and i yield back my time. Thank you and congressman the senate vote is underway and i know we have congressman hartzler wants to ask questions begin i turn the gavel over to you for the balance of the hearing . Absolutely and i would turn the time over to representative hartzler. Thank you. Thank you both mr. Chairman. This question is for mr. Meserole but to what extent are u. S. U. S. Companies advocated in the digital repression of religion and are there instances of u. S. Application stores are moving religious apps at the request of the prc and are there areas where u. S. Companies might be vulnerable knowingly or unknowingly in the repression of religion . The its a great question. The question about whether American Companies are actively engaged etc. I think its undeniably true this point kick at amazon you cant buy a bible there. There were certain religious apps that are not allowed within china because they follow chinese law. I dont think its controversial to say its a challenge for American Companies to operate in china not follow these. 30 much any American Company operating in china and putting out a consumer facing application or platform app they are going to run into these issues and they will have to comply with china or the hype to leave the country. Those who are still there are in compliance with what china is doing. More broadly theres also the question of american firms and the use of their products within the surveillance state. Ive been heartened to see more aggressive steps that the white house is taking recently in associating themselves with things like export control restrictions for Cloud Computing servers which are really the best servers you would want to use of ai models and particularly the models used in facial recognition. They are the best models for facial recognition and we know china has developed Machine Learning models at on religious minorities as they passed through the country. Those models depend on gpu and by banning the sale of those to china it wont them from being able to develop those models that will hamper their ability especially as these technologies mature. Ideally we would continue to place more restrictions on the kinds of unique hardware to china relies on and the buildout surveillance apparatus. Its a encouraging that theres some pushback to be helpful here. Its so important. We dont want to be complicit in any of this or anything we can do to stop the spread around the world and to help people of china to do what they need to do. Thank you very much for your testimony and your work and all of the witnesses. Really appreciate it and i yield back mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. I dont see any other members or senators on the call so i think i will bring the questioning to in end. Thank the panel is. Your mind is all about how important languages in the something we need to act on in the house version of the complete bill there was a provision to put more money toward promoting the issue of language and we need to teach not just mannered. All the different dialogs in china and hopefully we can continue to build on that and figure out a way to get the senate to take it and we can improve on that and i also thought the suggestion that we need a common west policynumbert the number of people displaced are high. 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