Transcripts For CSPAN2 Capital News Today 20110716

deepwater note containment we have approved 42 with only three pending and in the shallow water we have approved 65 permits with only four of them pending. remember with respect to the deep water wells, requiring a the containment, and that was the main problem the industry faced for many months, the first was not granted until the very, 28 because the industry containment groups were not ready until about a couple weeks before that. since the end of february, march come april, may, june into july we've issued as i said 68 permits for 20 unique wells. i think you said 11. i don't know that they steal number. >> so i can be clear -- your saying that deep water has a total of 62i think you said. in one category 42 in the other? >> let me be clear because it does get complicated. >> one of the wells in deep water containment and 68 total permits for the 20. we don't want to use misleading members and so the 20 unique wells. >> in the 68 permits and these have actually been issued. >> yes. >> and then in the shallow water, 65 have already been issued. >> yes. >> what about leases? >> i was down in new orleans a couple years ago where we are working very hard to do a sale in the western golf before the end of this year there was a group of six or seven people who had been working all week to get that done, and they told me that as of now they believe that we are going to be able to meet that december, 2011 schedule for the seals in the western gulf. there's a lot of things that can happen now and then. we have been pushing them very hard because we know how important it is to get that sale done. if it slips, and i certainly hope it doesn't come it would only slip a little bit into the beginning in 2012. and then we have a major consolidated of lease sale in the central gulf mexico that is going to take place in the first half of 2012. so that's something i mentioned before but it bears reenforcing, so we will have a sector sale either december, he lives and i hope or early 12th, and then a major consolidate the central gulf sale for six months to 2012. so, i think we are in shape there. >> mr. lamborn is recognized. >> thank you for being here. this is an important hearing and we appreciate your presence and explanations. i've been fortunate -- i to be in and out of the hearing. i hope i'm not touching on things you already thoroughly discussed. but anyway, i am concerned about splitting up the permitting process in this organization takes place. right now many of us are concerned that offshore drilling was already proceeding slowly. and in the case of alaska in particular, when you have the epa and the boen sharing some of the permitting duties, things have been terribly slow. so, how -- can you walk through how can we prevent the slowness from taking place when two different agencies are sharing an important responsibility like that. >> to be clear, it's good to see you again, only one of these agencies will be responsible for permitting and that's betsy. so the permitting function itself, the kind of permits they were just asking about, that's not being split across the two agencies. we are focusing that in the bureau safety and environmental force that because our analysis demonstrated that the feedback between the safety checks we do, the inspections we do are directly relevant to the permitting a power and so it made much more sense to have it in bsef than the energy resource agency. >> maybe one to get for the clarification on that later. >> about the seismic activity can you walk us through how seismic integration will be an activity by exporters will be approved after the reorganization takes place. >> sure, because that's on the analysis of the resource side of a critique the ocean management. so again, that's not a function that's going to be split, that's one that is clearly and uniquely so it will not be adversely affected or slowed down. it won't be impaired at all, it will be allowed to go forward just as it has in the past. >> if i can get a further clarification under the reorganization the production plant management will be under boem, permitting the or the environmental review ct technical environmental review of plans will be done under bsef? >> the environmental -- >> according to the flow chart -- >> i don't have it in front of me, the environmental with respect to the plans will be done in boem. and in fact, boem will be the agency with by far the bulk of the environmental review. the only exception to that is in environmental enforcement, and because that is an important matter, that will be handled. cities are among -- these are complicated issues and we understand that, but that's why we have tried to sensible and straightforward. >> the staff is going to show you what i was referring to in particular, and there is -- if there is misinformation that is great for you to point out. >> what he has given me is in a circle is environmental analysis and nepa will be done in the bureau of ocean management, which is i think what i said. >> i was asking about safety technical and environmental review of plans which is the top of the flow chart. >> yeah, i don't know. i think this means then is superseded documents, so that may be our fault because there is virtually no plan review all that is going to be undertaken. so we may be can talk about this later. i don't believe that that's accurate and if it is i will try to clarify it from myself, because my understanding is that plans begin and end in boem, and that permitting, once it moves over to permitting under plans, that is the function. so i don't know when this was developed, whether this was developed early in the process, because as you can imagine an enormous amount needed to be done. we need to weigh the various options, and one of the chief to seiters for us is what will make things more efficient rather than get in the way by creating the needless bureaucracy? >> and that is our exact -- >> that's why we put everything relating to plan development and approval in boem, and the dividing point has been that permits get educated and decided. so i don't know at what point this was developed, and i don't know whether contains something other than it said, but i understand the confusion because i don't understand this either. >> thank you for the clarification and you can see why -- we will continue to work with you on this. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. mr. thompson. >> thank you, chairman. thank you, director bromwich for being with us today. you have laid out well in your testimony the structural changes the former mms went through in order to become the bureau of ocean energy management. regulation enforcement and of what other structural changes to the agency can you foresee going forward? >> this is a lot of change for now what we are going to finalize as of october 1. and we've suggested people to a lot of change very quickly we change the rules which they obviously have to apply, and now we are creating new agencies in which they are going to have to work. so this has been a lot to bite off for us and for them. we don't anticipate right now any additional structural organizational changes, but i'm not sure you were here. there were major structural innovations as part of the reorganization. for example, we are creating for the first time in national training center for our inspectors and naturally engineers. creating for the first time in environmental enforcement unit on the side that we've never had before. but those are not things down the road quite a way. those are things that are built into the reorganization we are going through now and we are creating right now all our people know about them right now, and for many of them it is quite exciting because they should have been handled all along because the shortage of resources they could not be and so they have the opportunity to move into not just exactly the same job they've been doing for a long time, but the opportunity to the jobs related to their old jobs. >> you mentioned boem to the leasing process must be both, quote carter is an efficient. so the operation goes forward in a timely way. i couldn't agree more. that's an important mission. what steps or actions is the agency considering to make the leasing and permitting process more efficient or timely? >> one of the things that we have rely on are all the studies, reviews and investigations that have been done of sauce over the last year. as i did you know we are the most studied, investigated and reviewed agency and the government i believe, and that certainly has had its pitfalls and downside in terms of destruction of people but it's had its upside as well because we have had a lot of different outsiders have an opportunity to look at us and tell us what needs to be improved on the leasing the site. what needs to be improved on the inside a metal analysis. what needs to be improved on the permiting side and so as part of this reorganization we have formed a set of teams that we originally called safety oversight teams because that is one of the first reports that came out, and those teams are focusing on precisely those issues, efficiency, effectiveness and leasing cited especially on the permitting site. so we are focused not just on structures, not just on organizational boxes, we are focused on the substantive improvement and it's not just me, is the bulk of the people in the agency working hard to improve the way we do business. >> my assumption is most of that feedback that you got came on as a result of the defense over the past year or so. are there mechanisms being put in place so to continue to systematically solicited feedback and input into the future so that it's constantly looking at opportunities on how to improve efficiencies and timeliness and any other type of qualitative measures for the operation of the agency? >> yes. one of the things we are going to have is in both of the agency's a small, but i hope potent office of policy analysis that will play iowa central role in continually reviewing what we are doing pointing out ways that we can improve and so on. i think it's critically important each and every agency has a small shop like that who's responsibility is to do an analysis of the process and procedures in the agency and recommend reform. so that is certainly part of our plan. >> you mentioned as ivan to the recommendations of the commission found that in general alignment whether any notable differences between your agency and the commission's recommendations? >> i think the most significant difference is they suggested the safety and regulatory agency would report directly to the secretary of the interior and be more organizationally separate from the energy resources agency than we are doing. and the reason we had a hard time seeing that that was a good way to go was because of the concerns of operational continuity and efficiency that we have. we were worried that might break things apart in a way that would prevent promptness and permitting for example. and so we always have a lot of experience with our own process these and deference to the commission. we thought at that time that was a step too far, and so that's the main difference. i anderson of the reasons why they thought that was an important recommendation and maybe down the road that some place we can go but we didn't feel we were ready to do that is and how much we have to do with our own reorganization. >> thank you. the time of the gentleman has expired and i recognize from new jersey. >> thank you, mr. chairman hastings and for holding the hearing. it was about a year ago that the bp oil spill looker creating the worst environmental disaster scene and was also about a year ago under democratic leadership the house passed the act which would have implemented critical reforms to the primitive and oversight development and included in that legislation was a restructuring of the former mms and i'm glad you're hearing from the administration on how the mms is occurring. you should totally opposed to any kind of offshore drilling or in a preliminary steps the would lead to that drilling off the coast of the atlantic. i believe that because i think the imbalance, the negative impact on the tourism among other things, which has had a huge industry along the atlantic coast far out ways any benefit that would come from whatever oil or natural gas could be found out there. so i very much opposed to the fact that the administration is now moving ahead with a seismic survey in the atlantic. i think we should just have a moratorium on any kind of activity leading up to the offshore drilling in the atlantic. we are in place now that the majority is responding to the need for energy independence is waiting or entirely eaglen leading the environmental protection. the chairman has gone so far as to propose giving the company's cross credit for serving which is just another tax payer funded way to help the oil companies in my opinion. and so, i have questions about the priorities of this reorganization. director bromwich, as you go through this reorganization, they're developing the seismic survey and the atlantic. what is the current time line for the release of this, and what exactly are you going to do in terms of the seismic serving? as i mentioned, the chairman proposed these credits for companies performing the seismic survey. can you explain what taxpayers' dollars are being used to support the seismic serving at this time and if there has been any interest by the companies to perform seismic serving? i don't know anything about what your plans are, timeline, who's paying for it, whatever you can tell us. >> you are quite right. when the secretary made his announcement in early december about the plans for 2007, 2012, he limited what was going to go on in the atlantic to the geophysical and so on. so we are moving ahead with that. i didn't come prepared today to give you a time line on that. i can get back to do. >> mr. chairman, could i ask them to get back to us on that? >> is, if you would share that with every member of the committee i would appreciate that. >> see you can't give us any idea what your plans are at this point, you have to get back to be? >> we are doing a programmatic eis on the g and g as was announced in december and my understanding is we are certainly moving ahead on that. but congressman, nothing related to that has crossed my desk in the last 60 days or so. so rather than guess where we are -- >> that would be fine. >> i did ask whether you or the administration supports the tax payer funding and the seismic surveying or is that an activity that the oil companies are going to? >> i'm not sure the administration has a position on that and let me get back to you. >> that's also very important. >> i'm concerned the administration is giving credibility to what i consider the argument we've been sharing from the republicans that drilling in the atlantic will bring back prices at the pump soon. does the administration's for the idea that drilling will bring down the prices more than a few cents over the next couple decades? >> what we have said repeatedly is we're dealing in a world oil market and the amount that drilling in the u.s. can have on the price of oil is not very great. so we have said repeatedly, and that applies both to questions about the quickening, the pace of permitting an also applies even more along the range to the drilling and other areas as well. the fact is it is a global market price set in that global or get and so the amount of impact we can have on domestic prices is simply not that great. that's not to say -- >> diminishing the reliance on foreign imports. >> can i issue one more thing? i know that the reorganization as addressing the current system when it comes to the offshore renewables. it seems like with wind tunnels and offshore renewable the current system is at hawk, is there any plan to be more orderly in the development of wind mills and other offshore renewables as opposed to sort of the ad hoc decision making for having -- >> it's not ad hoc anymore stomach that impression may have been created because the length of time it's taken to approve certain projects. estimate we didn't get the authority to deal with offshore renewables until 2005 and we've been a working very hard especially in the last couple of years to rationalize the process and expedite the process. that's the entire logic behind the secretaries from the start program with respect to the offshore renewable iain announced last year. i mentioned before we've got this week i attended the atlantic wind technology conference out in herndon where the variety of governmental and private people got together to focus on some of the issues that need to be addressed, the signs that needs to be done and whether to push for does aggressively as possible with alternative renewables in particular with the wind some things change pretty dramatically recently and in a way that i'm quite pleased with and i think he would become too. islamic the time of the gentleman has expired. the gentleman from ohio, mr. johnson, is recognized. >> mr. chairman, i am pleased to yield the balance of my time to my colleague from texas. estimates before mr. chairman. am i to first of all give you an accolade. i appreciate the diligent work that you are doing, you and the agency toward trying to get the sales restarted. i think that's a positive for our country, the american taxpayer and recognizes the assets. that said there's an implication from one of the earlier questions from a colleague on the other side of the aisle that may have left the impression with the people listening to this hearing that the service companies are not regulated in the offshore and as i want you to respond to that they are in fact regulate it, aren't they? >> i think the question related to our exercising regulatory authority with respect to the companies and contractors generally the answer was historic leedy have not been. >> by you? >> but the harbor there federal agencies, connect? >> not with the activities related to the development of the lease which is what i was talking about. >> the contractors for instance are regulated by the coast guard. >> uncertain activities. >> so, i just didn't want to leave the american people with the impression we didn't regulate the service companies because i agree, i stipulate with you they are not regulated at this point. khator colleagues asked questions about the permit slowatorium i think he called it. with respect to the shallow water permitting, does the agency have any differentiation on why they look at the permits for the prospects versus permits for natural gas prospects? >> i'm sure there are some differences. i can't sort of still goes out for you. but let me just again shallow water process has been moving toward in my judgment reasonably smoothly. the pace is not that far behind what it's been in the past years, and by not sure if you heard this before there's only four pending shallow water permits. it's a very small number. >> maybe those are the four people that called me. [laughter] >> i will independently get back with you on that. but i'm glad to a year there are only four pending. i need to make sure we are counting them correctly. i know there was a question about when a permit application becomes an application. i hope it's when it hits the door of your agency discounted and login. >> to give the full set of covers 65 that had been approved, four of them pending in it than the seven have been returned. we frequently get the applications that don't have all of the necessary information and so we have to return those to the operators so they can fill that in. we've recognized we can be helpful in that process and so recently we prepared for deepwater a checklist that operators are free to use and even to submit if they want to to clarify for themselves that they have in fact a complete package. we were finding they were just missing a large chunks of what they needed and that is what created the need to return permit applications. people get the pleasure of doing that. they would rather start with the application as it moves through, ask any questions the of and approve it. everything looks good. >> you talk to the industry workshop's you're going to have as you rollout the processing scheme as the organization to the industry, what will you do if you get tangible feedback that there could be a bottleneck or fall in the process designed will you be responsive to? >> absolutely, we have again our people who are extremely familiar with our process these and to understand where the stress points will be in the process focusing right now to eliminate and diminished distress point. so certainly we will be responsive as i feel we are now on other issues to other comments, criticisms or suggestions from industry but i agree with you i think it's extremely important in this kirker to be even more responsive because we make a big move like this there's a possibility of bottle necks or other problems you don't foresee. >> earlier today in my first round of questioning you indicated the agency is going to work hard to have a balance between regulatory actions and environmental oversight can also economic development and maximizing value of the taxpayers assets so my last question is will you commit to ensure the american people the department of interior to the extent you can speak for them will fulfill its obligation to promote the economic well-being of the country and the citizens while on the other hand regulates the safety of offshore operations? >> yes and to be clear its boem and bsef it will be expeditiously developing resources with adequate protection to the environment. >> we have your commitment? >> yes. estimates before. >> the time has expired. the gentleman from georgia, mr. harris. specs before mr. chairman and mr. bromwich for appearing to be my little concerned with the response to the gentleman from new jersey that you gave that we have folks in charge of the department of -- in charge of permitting they may not feel expiration and difficult that is critically important to keep the oil prices and natural gas prices low comedy have an explanation because i think your testimony was all that offshore isn't going to affect the price of oil very much can you explain the gasoline has doubled since the month president, took office? since obviously it's not twice as expensive to extract from the grout? >> there's a lot of reasons for that, one is instability in the middle east. >> uncertainty -- >> would you agree that it's basically uncertainty of supply? >> this factors but one of them is uncertain. >> that's the main factor when you look at speculation, i would imagine, but the price is natural gas is actually dennett lower because we actually have tremendous reserves in the united states. would you agree that's one of the reasons the price of natural gas is now lower? >> i haven't looked at them. >> can you get back to me but when the natural gas prices or over the same period of time? therefore, it kind of begs the question why wouldn't you believe that exploring for natural gas offshore, wherever it could be found would be in part to keep the price of natural gas down and even lower it further for our energy customers paying huge prices? >> i would look more at the oil issue. >> could you look at the national gas issue? i'm going to yield my time to the gentleman from louisiana, if that's all right, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. harris. director bromwich, not a big government guide in case it never occurred to you. and i am just confused on the the concern of you wanting to extend your preaching to these service contractors. doesn't it make sense both from a history standpoint from a financial standpoint for you to be able to continue to regulate just the operator, and then have so that you can play defender directly at the responsible party and then the operator fails to oversee his subcontractors and companies that's the operators fault. i get concerned when the government wants to preach in more into the industry's one clearly in the chain of command especially oil and gas section the operator is the guy in charge. >> they will remain the guy in charge. we will continue to go against the operator. in most cases in which there are serious regulatory violations. but i don't think it makes any sense to say we will never under any circumstances proceed to take regulatory action against a contractor no matter how well egregious misconduct needy in one incident or a series of incidents. i don't think that's the responsible way to beat as a regulator. >> i know what the problem is. as a bureaucrat, and you don't believe -- if a subcontractor and a service contractor fails to do its job according to the specifications to operate gives you come within that service contractor will more than likely go out of business. .. don't you agree with that? >> i agree it makes sense in most cases to go against the operator. but let's take a case where you have an operator in the contractor or service company kingsfield all the bad things who is doing from the operator. in the operator really had no way in the exercising due diligence to find out that they the contractor did. in that case, it makes no sense that the regulator is going to decline to take action against the contractor. it makes no sense at all. >> that's in those cases you agree with me. another taxpayer has to pay more because we are trying to eliminate a smaller percentage. >> i don't expect the taxpayer will have to pay more. >> somebody has to pay. >> it probably will proceed using the same resources we have. it was the investigation or regulatory action with respect to operator and to get the bulk of the facts, need to focus on the contractor. we may spend no additional resources into the network. but our focus will simply shift. >> the chair recognizes the seven from south carolina, mr. duncan. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it seems that kerry's comeback to this point. we received the administration when they recognized each of these and the size and scope of government. all the while the american people pay more at the pump and wonder why we're not capitalizing on the bountiful natural resources we have here in america. mr. bromwich, i appreciate you and your coming here today. it's not really whether or not you are doing a good job or not. reorganizing major area of expertise. i read your bio. you do the job required to view by secretary salazar. the issue at hand is whether we are meeting america's energy needs and being given our purchase to meeting those needs. so my question is this. let me back up and say what mr. landrieu was talking about was a prime example of government reaching further and further into the private sector. not only this agency, but nlrb reaching into private businesses. this is another example of that. my question will be this. given the fact no sales have been conducted and unaware of a new five-year plan in this area. i'd experience under an msm because he has five-year planning subcommittee. i know how long the process takes to the public input site and how convoluted it seemed to me then. i know we have many years out when it comes to conduct gained a new lease sale. i am unaware of any new sales or five-year plan and the fact that only 11 deepwater permits have been issued as of july 12, how does this reorganization of this agency help expedite lease sales and expiration? >> i'm not sure you are here when it answers some specific questions about lease sales. >> i apologize for that. >> i understand your busy doing other things. we plan to have a lease sale and the western goals. we're hoping it will be in december of 2011. if it's not and i just met with the teamwork and i'm not in new orleans, it will take over only a little bit into january 2012. then there is a consolidated control the sale, which we've talked about a lot that will take place in the first six months of 2012 and not consolidation of what was considered to be two separate lease sales, one of which was deferred because of deepwater horizon. that will be a very large lease sale in the central gulf and we are aiming for sometime in mid-may injured area. so there is going to be a significant amount of leasing in the next nine months. the work for the next five-year plan is well underway for the 2012, 2017. we know how important it is. we always know how much work and aspects there are do you have to do in order to get it right. and so we are working hard on that. so i can give you assurance about the% to the sales and with respect to the five-year plan, we're working hard. i don't know where this number of 11 wells comes from. we have permitted 20 deepwater wells that require containment. those are the most challenging wells and we have awarded it a total of 68 permits for those 20 wells. that is in deepwater. for deepwater that doesn't require containment, 42 have been approved with only three pending shallow water, 65 permits approved, only for pending. so i think people are not keeping up with the actual pace of permanent and the actual status of permitting. they are using data from long ago and the narrative that doesn't match reality anymore. >> i appreciate your assurance of that. but i ask you to do is have your agent erastus gave to me a detailed plan of leases that will be issued, which you just said in the western goals than any other area where you are proposing over the next five years to have a lease sale, with the timeliness for that and where new permits have been issued. i think a little more detail. >> thank you. we have those going on with tumor members that want to ask questions. i would ask if they have the time it would restrict questions to one, we might get both men. just as a courtesy i know how difficult that is. mr. mcclintock is recognized. what is our annual oil production not sure? the absolute number? >> i don't have that in front of me. getting to the question of the impact on prices, i know the president released 60 million barrels from our strategic oil. to affect world oil prices. i suspect or even onshore production is somewhat greater than that figure, but putting that aside because they do agree with you that these are global components, rather components of the global price, would you agree that we derive enormous direct lease revenues and oil revenues from production of the federal sure is quick >> absolutely. in direct tax revenues increased employment? >> yes. >> or federal expenditures because you don't have to support a huge unemployed population most regions? >> certainly. >> refold ripple effect throughout the economy as support activities are engaged. >> i don't how many fall, but certainly a multiple. >> multiple ripple effect. their huge gummy huge benefits to offshore production. can you give me an estimate of economic damage done by the oil spill itself? >> there is data out there. i don't have a need. >> can give me an estimate of the damage done by the moratorium? >> there never has been a de facto moratorium. i understand there's been a slowdown. >> europe to expand that to an awful lot -- >> i explained another times. i'm not accepting it. the point i'm trying to make is i think you need to look at those numbers because i think you'll find the damage done by the administration's policies has far exceeded the damage done by the oil spill itself. >> the chairman side achieved here he thinks needs to be enshrined through this rear can this re-urbanization is improve safety. that is the reason for any slowdown in permitting that has existed because we did put into effect new rules last fall that substantially enhanced drilling safety. that impose new requirements to be sure, the raise the bar and safety and that is in turn required more time for people to processes permit. >> with all due respect, and the immediate cause of the oil stove was a mechanical malfunction of the blowup adventure. >> no, that's not true. >> at the blowout preventer had functioned it wouldn't have had the spill. >> as i'm sure you know from reading the report, there are lots of different causes, both human and mechanical. >> as you know, sir, the commission never even the get the blowout preventer. they never asked a very simple question, what was the mechanical defect that caused this? they never looked at it. they admitted that. >> they knew from the beginning the blowout preventer failed. >> the commission never looked at why it failed. we discovered later why it failed. that is the approximate cost of the disaster. that's where come with all due respect, which put her attention. >> i appreciate the gentleman using that time. mr. rivera is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. a few weeks ago, secretary salazar met with officials of the spanish oil company repsol raised concerns about plans to joe within 50 miles of the florida keys and i know you know about the concerns of possible effects of this bill splintering sanctuaries and coral reefs and the beaches due to the cuban government lax environmental standards in their mad dash for cash. but my question to you is what is this administration preparing to do or going to do if anything to discourage any other oil company seeks to drill off cuba? is this prepared to limit other sanctions for those that seek to associate themselves and do business with the state-sponsored terrorism, which few days. >> we are certainly aware of repsol's plans. and to their credit, they have told us what those plans are and have been very responsive to us whenever we ask questions as recently as a few days ago. i can tell you that the issue you're focusing on, that is the proposal of repsol sutra lecture in cuba is being focused on high levels of the government. no final decisions have been made, but i can assure you it is very much on people's mind and has people's attention. >> if you or anyone in your agency met with cuban officials on this matter? >> i have not. not that i'm aware of, no. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. i really appreciate the last two gentlemen. i will say that if there are questions that he would like to ask mr. bromwich, they can submit them and i ask you to respond in a timely manner. but i appreciate very much the indulgence of the last numbers. i want to thank you for being an images much make an observation. as you know, since last year there have been efforts to review and consider organic legislation to codify some of the structure reforms that were in sms. in fact, secretary salazar suggested himself on several occasions that should be the case. they just want to mention that is under serious consideration by this committee and i think this hearing today will help us move in that direction. what you're doing, what you can do because under the secretary's order i think it's important for the industry. i want to mention to you we are looking at proposals aired we are exploring the idea of organic legislation we hope would be more responsive to energy needs of this country. with that in mind, we look forward to working with you as that process moves forward. what not, is there any questions that many members they would like to ask mr. bromwich to respond to, you can submit those. and if they're additional views are that you share with us, we welcome not in the ad also part of the record. if there's no further business to come before the committee, the committee stands adjourned. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> this is the member's term here at the library of congress, a private room for members and other personal records held here at the library. just to many congressional collections either? well, the unique library has fans original documentary, the library of commerce airing this sunday night with two or the iconic jefferson building, including the great hall and reading room. bush of treasury, sound and never put in special collection, including the original thomas jefferson library and presidential papers from george washington to, coolidge and learn how the libraries using type elegy to discover hidden secrets in their collection and preserve its holdings for future generation. join us for the library of congress this sunday night at eight eastern pacific on c-span. about that question, the library holds a personal record of over 900 current and former members of congress. >> space shuttle atlantis is on its final mission to the international space station among return to earth july 21. president obama called the astronauts today in the crew also spoke to reporters on earth from aboard the international space station. this is an hour. >> atlantis, ss is houston. are you ready for the event? >> we are ready for the event. >> atlantis, please stand by for the white house. >> hi, please hold for the president. >> hello? hello, this is the international space station. >> well, this is president obama. who am i talking to? >> hello, mr. president. you're attacking and increment 20 crew in the courtesy shuttle atlantis. >> that's funny because i was just daily now for pizza and i didn't expect to end up in space. >> los cabos sir, it's an honor and privilege to take some time out of your busy day to meet with us. >> a listen, it's wonderful to talk to you and i appreciate you guys taken at the time for their mission. i always like to just let everybody know how personally proud i am of you in the amazing feats you guys are accomplishing in space. i was here in the oval office watching you guys take off last friday. were all watching as attentively worked together to conduct spacewalks and manage experiments and do other things necessary to keep the space station humming. your example means so much, not just a fellow americans, but also fellow citizens honor and the space program has always embodied her sense of adventure and exploration and courage as you guys work in a environment and i know that there have been thousands of where their hearts and souls into america's space shuttle mission over the last three decades that are following this journey with special interests. antivenin although men and women of mass i went to see thank you. he felt their country leave lead to speciation you continue to inspire us. captain ferguson, you're a veteran of previous flights, but it must be pretty special to be the commander on the last flight of the historic shuttle program. >> absolutely, mr. president. and just let me say on behalf of the international space station right now, were all a lot so the honor to represent our home countries in this multinational effort. to answer your question, sir, it is an extreme pleasure to be just a part of this fine crew of four who will represent our country on the final space shuttle mission scheduled for undocking here in a few days in a landing at the kennedy space center in a little less than a week. >> well, i understand you are doing some pretty important mission workouts are. i understand there's something about innovative robotic refueling mission demonstration. >> yes, mr. president. we have a piece of equipment on board that is a technology demonstration unit for this initial purpose manipulator to work to show and prove the type knowledge he too robotically and remotely serve a satellite. we are hoping that the work were able to do here on space station will lead us to further advance our robotics capabilities. >> well, that's terrific. and it is a good reminder of how nasa to knowledge and research often times has a huge spillover effect in the commercial sector. it makes all that much more important in terms of people's day-to-day lives. so i also understand that the plaintiffs brought a unique american flag to the station, one that was fun on the shuttle mission. and one that will reside until american commercials launches astronauts to the station. >> yes, mr. president. we brought a flag that was flown in sts one and is a part of a special presentation, his ceremony before we end up will present that to the station crew and it will hopefully maintain a position of honor until the next vehicle launched from u.s. soil brings u.s. astronaut had to talk with the space station. >> i understand it's going to be sort of like a capture the flag moment for commercial spaceflight. so good luck to whoever grabbed a plate. >> that's an excellent point, sir. we sure love to see a commercial partners climbing on board really soon and i know there is competition out there, lot of people fervently working towards this goal to be the first one to send a commercial astronaut into orbit and we look forward to seeing them here soon. >> i also understand today marks anniversary of sorts for us in russian colleagues or to six years ago we launched a u.s. spacecraft and the soviet union so use capsule towards a rendezvous in space and you know, it's pretty exciting to know that american astronauts and russian cosmetics are just shaking hands 36 years later, but are working every day with her cursor and other nations to represent humankind coming together in space. >> mr. president, our crew is really international. right now is representative of three agencies, nasa and we're working for the crew representative said these country. we are one big family and not those guys who appear almost a week ago shared with us are brilliant international space station. >> well, it's a wonderful testimony because i'm assuming was crammed quarters in a bathroom. my wife and daughters are always crowding me out. so hopefully you guys have a more organized arrangement and we do. >> absolutely, mr. president. we actually have three bathrooms on board. we have a gym, several bread dreams. it's probably one of the more spacious homes that there is outside of planet earth. >> well, look, while this mission marks the exciting new area to push the frontiers of space exploration in human spaceflight. you guys will continue to operate our crewmembers leahy will continue to operate the iss in coming years and seek to use it to advance technology development. all kinds of space technologies necessary to conduct exploration beyond earth and ultimately sending humans to mars, which is obviously no small feat, but i know what the task. so i just want to say how proud i am of all of you. congratulations to nasa, to all our international partners about the personal past and present who spend countless after hours. i think international space station a unique hardware history. so accept my gratitude on this tremendous accomplishment and godspeed as you return home next week. >> well, thank you very much, mr. president. on behalf of international partners on board, we are privileged to time we speak with us today in honor to represent everybody on planet earth are thank you on this earth. >> event. take care now. >> thank you, mr. president. we are now resuming operational audio communications. >> good morning. this is eric worker at "houston chronicle." congratulations on such a great mission so far. there has been a lot of talk about first -- leicester in this fight and i want to ask about her first, specifically, do any crewmembers plan to stick around but nasa or is that something that is a bit too far in the future? thank you. >> well, i think if you ask anyone of us, would love a shot at finding of the vehicle, so definitely we've got opportunities prior to that. you know, we've got multiple flights to the international space station. were going to clear this complex for the next 10 years plus. there's plenty of of opportunity to fly and i don't see any reason why to not stay. it's a real break future. >> good morning, ted oberg from channel 13 in houston. great to talk with you guys. i am curious. would it be done in your downtime on this mission to make sure that you capture some of these last moments? with things that he made sure you saw the windows are done with the shuttle to tell us little how you spent your downtime. >> well, for me, i did a chance to look -- the kubla, which is a great window and we can see the satellite seminar credit arata got to see that. just savoring every minute of floating in space. once in a while when you're on atlantis at the end of the day you think about the guys and women who were there before you and you had a partner in the space program. this is the last site that describes your mind once in a while. >> good morning, john donley with fox 26 here in houston also. i'm passing along a question from viewers. she wants to know what would the astronauts built to take from the last trip and we have a job and you get back on earth? >> absolutely. you know, johnson space center come out overreach in the end of the program is still a vibrant place to work. there'll be a transitional. here is a handover responsibilities or go to low earth orbit for commercial providers. this is an opportunity to the beyond low earth orbit and perhaps back to the moon or to an asteroid over that you travel soon. there'll be plenty of work in the houston area. >> good morning. merker road from week. my question is for sandy. could you describe for us the pace of the activities the past week and just what it will take to wrap up the restart before you in.. thanks. >> well, mark, the pace has been very, very busy, busy, busy. right when we had orbit, we were working really hard. we had a little bit on flight day two, dispensary.station, we've been working quite a bit. i think were getting ahead ahead now, so if the rest of the pace will slow down the data make it with a for worth of we've been able to until now. >> hi, good morning. my question is for commander chris erickson. having an opportunity to fly in space and on the iss, junior crewmates have unique perspectives and for those of us on earth, i was wondering what message he would have to why it's important exploration beyond low earth orbit. >> i'll tell you first of all, you really don't get a firmer appreciation for what a fantastic place it is until you have an opportunity to look at the kubla. we've had some dramatic passes that shadow the southern lights, just a vibrant green color. there is a tremendous picture taken with a silhouette of the space station in the background. i'll tell you, there is everybody who looks at patterns that i cannot believe we are here. this is actually fantastic. we must continue this. we must go beyond and go back the network at. we need to continue pushing on. we need to press technology. humans are destined to explorer. this is what we do and we need to continue. >> abc news. mike, we thought we heard you trying to whistle before your spacewalk on tuesday. tommy little bit about that and why you couldn't whistle. and when you're done, i'd like you to whistle a tune for me. >> all pass the second half to make space for buddy, brian garrett. ron and i were both doing the same in the air what. it's one of the strange phenomenon, i received is just a little over four pounds of pressure. and once the air pressure inside goes down to zero, then your overall pressure is down low. it has to do with the density of the year, but a really can't explain a lot of god the resident frequency or the cavity of your mouth is your blowing the air through it like that. and so it is kind of interesting. we cannot whistle, you know, but it's one of the things you could physically use to just take a look at the fact that things are changing. you can feel the air you are breathing in is different. it is lower density and you can tell that. we have a car -- a procedure card than you can with a back and forth. as you do, you can feel less resistance on it as the air pressure is dropping. the whistling a something of a little fun with what he tried not to think about what going on. >> now ron has to whistle. >> this is jill tole, representing houston magazine. a two-part question for fergie enron. he should be less connections, wet have you made during your respective faiths. for fergie, have you seen the east coast of australia to the kubla yet? >> first of all, how are you doing? you know, i wish we had enough time to look out the window. we did catch a look at the philadelphia new york -- insight from the philadelphia new york area over there. i think it is a tube we had a chance to look out. and how we pass up the east coast of australia quite css that we have here that's one of the opportunities to look at the southern lights, but i didn't have a chance to do coastal searching at google to find out exactly where we were. alternate over to ron. >> well, sasha and i dream i have been near 101 days, but who is counting. so we've had a lot of opportunities to look out the window, opportunities to see our unbelievably beautiful letters. guess i've had the opportunity to see pennsylvania taking some pictures of one of my favorite places in the world, where he spent the happiest day of my life over 20 years ago getting married in scranton, pennsylvania. so i definitely have some great pictures of that really beautiful area of pennsylvania. >> hi, says robert preminger collects space.com. there is a tradition among shuttle crews to the fire match on various walls of the space station. can you share ware eunuch recites the dirt and lint and we be adding commemorative mementos or emblems to signify this is the last they shuttle to visit the iss? >> yes, they do have a place where you leave the patches and stickers and were going to leave our patch in node one and relief asynchrony airline because we consider ourselves one big team at the station and we all executed like enron, the great guys who did the spacewalk, but we all help them and so we'd like to poke put one of our missions stickers in the airlock. in regards to other things that appear, fergie, do you have any other addition? >> yes, we do have a special item we are going to leave behind in what hopefully is a very thought provoking and emotional farewell ceremony we have as the space shuttle leaves the space station for the final time. i just ask you to perhaps put on until that moment to get a look at what we have in store. >> atlantis iss guys is used in acr. that concludes questions from the johnson space center. please standby for a voice check from kennedy space center. >> iss. how do you hear me? >> hello, kennedy space center. we have the loud and clear. >> i was wondering if you got the scientific experiments on the international space station that will inspire the public. >> that's an excellent question. we've had a permanent human presence on the international space station. over that time was conducted scientific experiments. one of the things were trying to do is to see how humans can go further and go beyond earth orbit. we have a direct application on earth from growing crops better and new medicines. we had very significant research for salmonella, studying our earth. learning about the human impacts on the core of the earth and possibly lead to better ways to predict earthquakes, safe automobile safety and energy efficiency, so the list goes on and on. it's amazing the research conducted at pier and that's the best because it's it simply cannot be done anywhere else. that is why this is such an important research facility in the global asset at the space station. >> ken kramer from spaceflight magazine. my question is for chris sten and your crew. i wonder if you could tell about the science you personally seen at the space station. could you see the ims that keep you at all? any act direction? >> absolutely. we had an opportunity to see it out the window. as a matter of fact on the first eda, ron and i'm an opportunity to take a look around at any chance to watch out the window. it's out there and we understand it's doing fantastic science. >> stephen young was the site.com or commander ferguson. there's a public perception your fight not only represents the shuttle program, but the manned space program. do you have any fears at all your crew might be the last astronaut to blast off from american soil? stephen, no doubt this is a very dynamic time in human spaceflight without a picture of how the u.s. as the rest of further plans underway that will be slowly transitioning to commercial companies. and while it is a little personally disheartening to see the shuttle come, we understand sometimes you need to stop working on what you're working on so you can afford to pay for the next generation of whatever it is. and in this case is the next generation of aircraft. as a matter-of-fact comments unique opportunity like the airlines did several years ago, is largely government-funded research that made tremendous breakthroughs in aerospace empty-handed to commercial companies in the form of airlines, government has made tremendous sites and getting low earth orbit and will have the technology over to commercial providers and perhaps one day we'll have spaceflight companies. >> this is leo and write for radio today with pat kenny program. a lot of europeans have flowed on this they shuttle, but sadly no irish. a lot of our younger listeners will be worried now. will they ever now have an opportunity to find space quakes even a reassuring? >> well, actually, i am a fair amount irish and i am up here today. so we will collect enough for now. i guarantee there will be an irishman on board the spacecraft in the not-too-distant future. i don't think they have anything to worry about and if they're interested in spaceflight, continue to study hard and you never know what will come next. >> marshalltown -esque associated press is another question for commander ferguson. back in his new site for me the overwhelming they should shuttle crews have an ipod psychopath and look at the shape heard i'm wondering can you tell her what's up on that was like for you last friday when he looked at atlantis, knowing that's the last shuttle launch? >> well, i'll tell you, marcia. but as one trip every shuttle crew has to make you think i speak for everyone who is fun on a space shuttle to stand there poised at the bottom of a living, breathing vehicle and it raining because of the condensation goes to the extremely cold fuels. it's wheezing, hissing, moaning. you look up any room for my first winter looked at me and said he believed that will stick this thing into space? and with every subsequent crew had been on, try to share that same reflection with my crew. it is incredibly odd firing. just like the pictures you see the next day in the photograph, it is incredibly surreal to stand and look at it and know in a matter of hours it will be orbiting the earth. >> good morning. peter king with cbs news radio. this is for one caring. i have enjoyed following your trees. i'm wondering which are staying behind, what's the best place to watch the undocking and you expect a food fight for the best view? >> 12 are going to do something a little different this time. our fly around will be a little different, so i think we're going to have it had some good views of some of the modules in the fashion statements that have arrived in the windows. so i think that will be the best bet. there's a few of those, so we'll take turns if isikoff. >> james dean from florida today. another question for ron. this is the last time in a very long time osier kravis dagon the station, although you continue to fight their for many years to come. both seem a little smaller, little less fun perhaps when you don't get these occasional visitors? >> well, i think it will save a little bit smaller actually because all the tons of cargo that arise from atlantis have filled this place that. so there's a lot less room for us human. but that is really, really important because we are outfitting the station to function for the rest of the decade and atlantis is really set us on the. and we're going to miss these guys a lot. it's been wonderful having them appear. it's nice to have visitors, especially great visitors like these guys are. and it will be sad when that starts. you know, we're going to continue on. this place is amazing and it's going to continue to function and continue to be utilized in great part because of the great mission so far the guys have connect to. >> hi, bill hartley, the question for circuit will cause sir, you've heard the u.s. reporter ask the shuttle and that might come next. what do the russians and about that when you guys talk about the end of the shuttle on this gap coming up in nasa's reliance on russia for transportation. what do you guys think about that? thanks. >> for us, no more shuttles for the station because thanks to this brilliant machine, we are able to build the station, so a big and ready to have a six person crew. of course we would play to continue to fly with our friends and to continue the durational space on the orbit. >> david watters to spaceflight now.com. at the beginning of the shuttle program, was john young and bob crippen, one of the book end. you're the last shuttle crew to go out. kind of book in this and tell us how you want people to look back at the shuttle program. that one for chris ferguson, please. >> well, you know, the shuttle has several milestones over the course of its -- they have to live it to the pictures in the images and stories the astronauts bring home. they don't get to see and touch and feel like we do vehicle is that endowments they shuttle. so you know, it is a sobering moment. but at the same time, we are incredibly overjoyed to justify the space shuttle for 30 years since he know that we have this ability to go to the record date and were so much more comfortable here that we were just a short time ago and we hope that continues on to our spaceflight partners. >> chris, sorry sorry to do this, but we lost her video for the first 32nd of the answers. if you could start that part again until a funny look back at 30 years -- i die you did make my question. but anyway, when we look at 30 years of the space shuttle program, what do you want people to remember about the program? >> well, you know, we don't have to fade to blacks which appear. i wish we did sometimes. but you know, of course be of the international space station to the back of pond. if you work for the space shuttle conversation wouldn't be here and certainly wouldn't be as large as it is. it's the large payload that allows for large diameter around us to set type across in here. if it wasn't for the space shuttle, we would be doing anything like that. of course these the absurdities the shuttles launched a tear. hubble space telescope, the chandra x-ray space telescope. plus, the space shuttle has really -- i don't want to say we have command of low earth orbit. we were so much more comfortable living and working day in and day out. i'm what back at the space shuttle at a vehicle to get us regular access and open up will record it so we can go beyond and learn how to live in areas perhaps in winter for a bit or an asteroid. >> atlantis iss, houston acr. that concludes questions from the kennedy space center. please stand by for a space check from nasa headquarters pao. >> atlantis iss, nasa had orders, have you read me? >> wee heavy loud and clear on the international space station. >> hi, suzanne presto from boa. braun, can you tell us more about science activities, particularly experiments you've been working on double comment, and shuttle, thank you. well, that would take a long time to answer. we've been doing a lot of science on board and as far as i know, there's a lot of human research, where we are kind of the subjects and there's a lot of science that will go down on the shuttle. we also inspires i'm bored right now that are being studied and they are going down on the shuttle as well. but we have been conduct gene experiments approaching crystal growth experiments, plant growth experiments can't experiments at the human body in the function of the human body looking at things like how to combat osteoporosis. so there is quite a bit of science going on board. combustion science and doing as well. so we are at the beginning of full utilization of this amazing research facility. >> keith, watch.com for chris ferguson. this is the last shuttle mission, so probably will not put the flag and at least for a few years. that said, must be tiring for you to plan a career and stay motivated. you must feel like a tennis ball at times. it goes in a circle and we pretty much don't go much of anywhere. as we speak from your floating off planet on the edge of tomorrow, literally. that offers you the perspective to be heard. what is that we should be doing to explore space? what should policymakers in washington be doing to much should we stop doing? should we be boldly going somewhere or continue to waste time doing this in powerpoint? you're going to talk to the president in an hour and a half or so. if you want to say one thing, what is that you would say to move forward the whole notion of exploring space for real? >> well, hello, first of all and thanks for the question. boy, i'll tell you a due share little of your frustration. we've had a lot of future programs, very interesting programs come and go it now without coming to fruition. a lot of that is politics traded. a lot of it is funding driven and dynamic events like the loss of columbia. these are certainly rings -- clearly out of our control. to answer your question, if there's one thing we could do to focus after its is to just appeal to congress, to focus on the long-term. look at the horizon. don't look one or two years in the future, the look of 10 years and see where you want this nation to be. i understand the president has a space policy and that's fantastic, but we need to retain a coherent and meaningful space policy that will take us one or two years in the future, 10 or 15 years. the plan of where we want this nation to go in space and it a lot to follow it so perhaps if congressional representative senators and presidential administrations are obliged to follow the lead this nation set forth so we can chart at something 10 or 15 years in a destination and not just one or two. >> atlantis iss, houston acr. that concludes questions from nasa headquarters. please standby for my first check for marshall spaceflight center pao. >> atlantis iss, marshall space center pao. have you hear me? >> we have you loud and clear. >> hi, my name is risky cause from wh mtv newsbank teen and i wanted to ask. much of the world was asking us to pay skyrocketed into his face, excited, leading to see you. what was going through your heads and now it's happening? >> there was a lot of emotions going through your mind. a space shuttle launch is a very interesting mix aryans. it's kind of like in the year prior, you're preparing for the super bowl, but don't know exactly what did the super bowl is. forget all prepared on the day you scheduled for launch coming to look at the weather sand are we going to go, partly? this lunch is no different. a 70% chance of not going, though we got prepared everywhere. you walk out on the cookie vehicle in the launch pad and nothing comes to mind the file. you get there and strap in you're still waiting to be never know for sure whether you are going into the last second. we had a hold at 311970 garneau, now. the funny thing is they picked up accounts and also the site ready set go and we were off to the races and we got shut out the planet and is absolutely amazing. so the whole array back your wide-eyed and experiencing the thrill of cheese and also the incredible sights and sounds year. >> with great or anyone in huntsville, you guys are part of a very good club, last shuttle mission. what are some of the moments you are relishing the most right now? >> well, i think we're all relishing just the fact wearing space again, able to float around coming here in the space station working with the space station crew, just flipping this environment and working hard to make this a better place to live and sustain it for the next year. it really a special beam that. and whenever we are up here we just try and paper that is much as we can, whether interpersonal mission, second for the last shuttle mission. >> by name is monica monica rick said debbie uss. i have rocket i.d., sandy had been admiring your hair all morning. this question is for you, too. this is your psychic tie tie it at 50 iss. tommy the changes that have gone through the space station and how it looks now. and also come you got six days left before some crew members leave. is there anything you want to do before you fly that way >> well, certainly the space station feels a lot like home. the minute we have in the hatch i felt like i'd never last. in the meantime, since i've been here two years ago, several new modules have arrived. the most enjoyable one that koopa, which is this very nice windowed module that we can see the spectacular views of the air. salaam us after -- a couple hours after week fact, we ran up to the koopa led to see the view from there. so the station as he does the same, but yet different families. i like the operation is the same. these guys take great care. as far as remaining time, we finish out her transfer and hopefully will get it done a little early and have time to spend in the koopa said the other windows with their station colleagues and shares the memories before we have duties. >> atlantis iss, houston acr. that concludes questions from the marshals a slight tenor. we will rejoin you i trade brief dropout. atlantis iss, houston acr. please stand by for a voice chat from the ames research center. >> atlantis iss and ames research center pao. how you hear me? >> we have you loud and clear innings. it's going to take us about another 30 seconds or so to get back into camera view for you. that was probably the most entertaining thing you'll see all day. >> good morning. this is bob ravel with envy the bay area, the home market. so my question is for you, what are your thoughts on the shuttle program coming to an end? will vote legacies being most importantly, were you able to spot san carlos, your hometown, for matters raised? >> well, that's the first one. we did kind of a passover california just in time as i was having a hammock conference -- private family conference, the elites are in the mission with my wife and two boys. i had a chance to see us coming over california. he couldn't quite see sympathies go combat is spectacular to see the central valley and northern california. shuttle's legacy as far as that goes, number one, is set probes and planets. crew to launch probes, great observatories that the hubble space telescope. and then the crown jewel of the space shuttle program is that helped to build this magnificent international space station were on right now. it would be the size and magnitude that the space shuttle. at a 30 year career, boy i'd like think think his legacy lives on. our crew made several still be doing research on the international aid station and that's all they can see which will continue to live on. for the future, hope as the the shuttle is retired, the money we would be spending is available to not only continue the international space station, but go beyond. we need to get in the exploration business on the go to the asteroid or the moon or mars. >> good morning. this is not bigler, k. cbs radio and a question for whoever would like to feel good. we are speaking to you from silicon valley, the home of googling face of getting sick social media and the iphone. my question is, would affect do you think some of these high-tech innovations have had on america's interest in space travel and our ability to explore the final frontier? >> well, i think technology has inherent interest in people take an inherent interest in it. i think.com valley and the technology on the space station. i think it plays an important role from inspiron gradeschool kids to actually providing the science we need to do our research here. i think the lewinsky people. you need to be able to develop the space program and develop a good research program that can really pay incredible dividends here in space. >> hi, mrs. jamie with the san jose mercury news. if this car wrecks behind. i'm wondering what you thought when you are going to be on the last shuttle mission. >> well, like most of us i was very honored. it is so great to get a chance to find space again. none of us are really sure we'd ever get a chance because they had to send the last mission. we got our chance had gone by, kind of like being at disneyland and the right clothes just before you get to the front of the line. .. to get everybody a chance to come and space one day. it changes the perspective. we have ten people from three different countries, americans, russians and a japanese astronaut and working together. we live together, work together, solve problems together, laugh together and in some amazing come artery. we are one big team and execute one big team and look down at the earth that's one big planet. the more people we get up here to see that perspective the better off we will be. >> i'm with cade tv channel to you this, if oxalate. my question is for wrecks. tommy what do you have to tell people, how do you inspire them to look to the future, how do they get in space? >> number one, work harder especially math and science and number two, have persistence because as hard as he worked it's going to take persistence. as a kid is getting in my backyard looking at the airplane circling around to go in san francisco and while i hope i get a chance to fly one day. to be here with my crew mates flying over the years that 200 miles of but 17,500 miles per hour it's really a dream come true. and the simple things like floating and flying in zero gravity is amazing. everybody dreams about the dreams you can fly and here to can actually do it. it's amazing in your dreams really can come true. >> atlantis this is houston. that concludes questions from the ames research center. please stand by for a police check. -- voice check. we read you loud and clear. >> [inaudible] the space shuttle has made major contributions and also of the show has continued to carry the astronauts and the space shuttle will be ending and returning this time. what is your feeling about the retirement of this space shuttle? >> the space shuttle has hopes, dreams and challenging stories to the japanese people, and on board feet iss i believe the fact they were able to grow is something of a great honor for me. it is regretful the space shuttle will be returning, but i believe this is a step towards the future programs. will be a new starting point of the future programs. and the u.s. and american colleagues we respect the injury much for the challenging state. i have a question for the astronaut. retial and twitter messages over time you said when going to zero gravity and having experienced changes any physical or mental condition something interesting and also to be taught about it from a doctor's perspective as well as an individual perspective? >> [inaudible] make a distinction there my sense is, how i feel, you you lose the feeling of being vertical, horizontal. where your legs are located it feels like the floor and if you change the place your feet are located feels like the floor so where we see the upside and downside and for the sake of convenience i think it is in relative terms you feel that you are upside-down or the other way around. >> another thing about the shuttle, don't you wish you had been aboard the shuttle? >> thank you for that very good question. [inaudible] i wish i had been able to travel but not everything goes as you wish, and so very satisfied for this is a very highly reliable election, and i was able to arrive at the iiss and make a big contribution to the activities, and second is once they go to work on board the space shuttle and also space shuttle what scientists know to the to -- space shuttle atlantis i was the first to encounter this and the commander has made my wish come true and he let me sit in his commander's seat and take a photograph, so that was a wish come true. one >> nels you have left and ground you have an opportunity to look at the area. if you have a message to those people that have been impacted on the disaster as the message. >> iowa personal travel when i was a high school student and was very moved by those people who were friendly and have very good memory. for months have passed and things looked very difficult for them, but what i can say is that if we continue to and then also colleagues from here, the u.s. and russia, everyone very much concerned and they give good wishes and that's on the u.s. and russia and all the people in the world shoring up and trying to be support. keep on trying. this is a question from the newspaper. you worked very hard the last 12 years, and finally came to space. did you encounter in leading the you didn't expect an? >> [inaudible] as i have been trained. there was one thing but they do not stay because something object would stay there but it would flow out and so here we use velcro to try to fix them on the surface and sometimes they flowed, so that was the things i was not trained enough's. i'm from news tv tokyo and mengin dalia understand you've visited so you are now in space and visited space shuttles. how did you feel listening to the wake-up call how do you feel about it? >> when i went into the space shuttle, i felt it looked like but training in the houston and its very much like the training in houston so exactly the same environment as i had been trained in houston. i was very moved to hear the of wake-up call. i was grateful for that opportunity that was given to me >> i would like to hear an [inaudible] you have a lot of a very good u.s. friends around here. what do you think? >> it might be difficult to answer that question but what i can say is the supporters and the people who confront, i hope everyone would do their best. that's my wish. >> atlantis this is houston. thank you. that concludes the event. specs before johnson space center, kennedy space center, nasa headquarters, marshall space flight center in japan. we are now resuming operational audio communications. and commercial collections, are there? you'll find the answers about this unique library in c-span's original document, "when the library of congress' cost of clearing this monday night. we will tour the iconic jefferson building in putting the great hall and the reading room and showed treasurys found in the rare books and special collections including the original thomas jefferson library and a presidential papers from george washington to calvin coolidge. and learn how the library is using technology to discover hidden secrets in the collection and to preserve its holdings for future generations. join us for the library of congress, this monday night at 8 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. about that question, the library holds the personal records of over 900 current and former members of congress. a pipeline safety bill is the subject of the house energy and commerce subcommittee hearing. witnesses include congresswoman jackie spinner of california whose district was the site of the gas line explosion last year. congressman of montana, the side of an oil pipeline that recently leaked into the yellowstone river. this is 40 minutes. >> i want to thank everyone for being year. today marks the 11th day in our american energy initiative hearing. while this hearing has allowed us to examine a multitude of issues regarding energy production, regulation and consumption, today we will focus on what can be done to improve the safety and secure delivery of oil and natural gas through the pipeline. several tragic pipeline accidents have occurred over the past year. which demonstrates the need to reauthorize and enhance current safety laws. despite the committee's frequently been the site of many tense debates and discussions, pipeline safety is an issue i hope we can all work together to produce meaningful and effective legislation to ensure the safety of our oil and gas pipeline infrastructure for the future while protecting the american people and our environment. over the past several years, we have been able to pass bipartisan bills on pipeline safety sometimes under suspension on the floor. this is because the pipeline infrastructure to choose every congressional district and accidents can happen anywhere any time. before us at the witness table, we have a democrat from california, and a republican from montana. both have dealt with major accidents recently, and both understand congress must act to strengthen the current pipeline laws. it is critically important that the pipeline infrastructure is both reliable and durable, and to this end, the discussing draft of the examination today makes many important modifications to the existing law that will promote a greater propensity standards. we are glad to have an opportunity today to hear from the experts on how this discussion draft might be improved or otherwise modified to ensure pipelines remain a safe and economical means of transporting energy supplies and help power our economy and create jobs. with that, i yield the balance of my time to the ranking member rush. >> i want to thank you, mr. chairman and thank all of you who have gathered here today with us. in the past, the issue of pipeline safety has been one we have worked on a bipartisan manner, and we must instill hope that we will continue on that tradition as we tackle the reauthorization under this manner as well. i look forward to today's hearing with expert witnesses and i commend you, mr. chairman, for holding this hearing today, when such distinguished power. i would be remiss if i did not announce their representatives speier and rehberg, those of whom i know have a personal interest on the subject of the pipeline safety. representative rehberg who represents montana, where they are dealing with the aftermath of the pipeline seal in the yellowstone river and representative speier represents san bruno where last summer the pipeline explosion claimed the lives of eight people. so while we so far have been fortunate in my own home state of illinois, we have [inaudible] old and new lines. just yesterday i had a conversation with the state's attorney of will county illinois and he informed me recently there were three separate pipeline and one butane week command one of them in the real possibility due to the aging of role infrastructure and the state's attorney's for the record mr. chairman on the commission of the aging pipelines i would like to enter into the record this letter from the state's attorney jetted to become dated july 14th, and signed by the state's attorney general blastoff. without unanimous consent the letter be entered into the record. >> no objection. islamic as i look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses including was the 21i am interested to hear the representative speier's ideas on what elements the safety and community empowerment act of 2011 we may be able to incorporate the legislation that we are considering in this subcommittee. as far as the discussion, mr. chairman, i am committed to working with you to improved the legislation where necessary in order to ensure we have the strongest bipartisan bill possible as we move forward. and many others in this discussion draft mirror the provisions in the senate bill. there are outstanding areas where i think we can make some little improvements so that we have a stronger bill can gain bipartisan support on the subcommittee, the full committee as well as when this bill reaches the floor. some areas they have been spending including sharing the regulation for gathering lines when appropriate, tightening the integrity system requirements and ensuring implementation regarding the emergency response plans and safety systems are available to the public at large. mr. chairman, if we are able to do this, work on this bill together and include the majority and the minority side i'm confident we can move forward with this legislation from the subcommittee to the point where it passes the senate and the president would sign it into law. the issue of pipeline safety in the face of everything that takes place from the various bills to the debates over fast tracking proposals is one we must act on because the nation needs updating and comprehensive pipeline safety. once again, mr. chairman put in his absence holding this timely hearing today i look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you ranking member and now i would like to recognize the chairman of the commerce committee, congressman afton for five minutes schenectady the subcommittee will examine the discussion draft of the pipeline infrastructure in the act of 2011 pipeline safety is an issue that crosses the regions, politics and party is coming as it does and affects all of us in our constituents in the same manner. the pipelines remain the safest means that transfer oil and natural gas over the past year we have witnessed a number of accidents that have destroyed property ecosystems and most importantly lives of innocent people. last summer from an oil pipeline ruptured and spilled into the stream and river which flows through my district. this bill center for 20,000 barrels of oil into the talmadge creek in kalamazoo river. different alarm sounded and the operators control room for nearly 18 hours before the leak was confirmed. in september of last year a gas pipeline and san bruno california exploded, killing eight people in addition to destroying 37 homes. it took over an hour for technicians to manually shut off the flow of gas, which continued to feed the fireball. and of course, last month a pipeline buried beneath the river bed of the yellowstone river near montana record and spilled up to 1,000 barrels of oil into the nation's largest and dammed river. i looked very much forward to testimony from exxonmobil and congressman rehberg as well as their answers to the many questions concerning the recent spell in montana. the discussion draft doesn't specifically address the preliminary issues raised by the incident, i hope what we learn today can provide better understanding of the adequacy regarding the current pipeline safety standards related to the water crossing. what all these incidents tell us is the pipeline cd laws must enhance to prevent tragedies like this in the future and better prepare us for response containment once they occur. the pipeline infrastructure community protection act is the energy commerce committee's initial offering into this year's drive to reauthorize ct laws. we are fully committed to working in a bipartisan, by kennedy and my camel fashion to get a pipeline ct tel signed this year into law. public demand responsibility as the elected leader. among the provisions the discussion after a today seeks to to a one hour time limit for operators to report incidents similar to legislation in the last congress bill passed on the house floor. and to require the use of automatic or remote control shuttle valves that can stop the leaks and spells and a fraction of time needed for the manual valves. three required by early detection technologies for the monitoring assessment of the leaks. the increase penalties of major accidents, five, require the highly enhanced inspection techniques and technologies which cover more pipeline mileage than before. and to increase the number of pipeline inspectors and the department of transportation. perhaps also the idea that we will require pipelines to be carried further underneath waterways as probably was the cause in montana. this discussion is an important first step in getting a companion house bill out of the blocks in the trajectory to merge with the existing senate legislation. there is my intent to move a bill through the subcommittee over the last couple of weeks and a half full committee action upon the return from the august recess. i look forward to the conversation today and yield the balance of my time to the gentleman of nebraska. estimates before mr. chairman. it's my hope of the committee and trademark i will move to reported very strong piece of legislation by the end of this year. when we hear tragedies involving pipelines in the san bruno or in montana, our hearts go out to those affected. but as legislators it is necessary and important that we quickly learn from these accidents and move to write laws that protect human health and the environment bearing in mind pipelines remain the safest and most efficient means of carrying vital energy across great distances. pipelines are such an important part of our commerce and all involved must have the confidence the system works well. i appreciate the out line that our chairman need of improvements that can be made on pipeline safety and i yield back. >> thank you. i would like to recognize mr. waxman. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. today we will examine the safety of the nation's land and natural gas pipelines and begin to consider legislation to update and strengthened the power plant safety law. during the last 12 months, a litany of tragic failures reinforced the need for stronger pipeline safety laws. since last month's's hearing on the topic, exxonmobil's silver tip pipeline record in montana aspelin estimated 31,500 to 42,000 gallons of crude oil into the yellowstone river. it appears that the oil may have been carried as far as 240 miles downstream. pockets of oil have been confirmed at least 90 miles down the river. ranchers are struggling to prevent contamination from destroying their livelihood we don't net yet know the cause of this bill the much of the focuses on where the pipeline is buried beneath of the river was uncovered by either version from flooding and became vulnerable to a collision from tiberi. during may of this year come to serious bills occurred on the first keystone pipeline, which brings canadian tar sands, wheel to the refineries in illinois and oklahoma. this is a brand new pipeline. it is predicted to still no more than once every seven years, but it just in one year of operation it is reported 12 separate oil spill to read in february, the natural gas pipeline in allentown pennsylvania exploded, killing five people and damaging more than 50 homes and businesses. this was an old cast-iron pipe line. last set of turkoman natural gas pipeline on the other side of the country richard and exploded in a san bruno, california. eight people died. many more were injured. the gas for no and spread from house to house driven by the wind. 38 homes were destroyed and seven more were damaged but the explosion left behind the suburban street with a massive crater and burned out vehicles. the vice chairman of the national transportation safety board described it as, quote, an amazing scene of destruction. two months before the san bruno explosion a crude oil pipeline ruptured near marshall michigan. over 800,000 gallons of oil spilled into the talmadge creek and then flowed into the kalamazoo river. the cleanup is ongoing a year later and is expected to cost $550 million. these are just some of the catastrophic pipeline failures the country has experienced during the past 12 months. these failures have occurred all around the country from california and montana to michigan and pennsylvania. the natural gas pipelines exploded three oil pipelines have ruptured. some failures in falls olden lt did pipelines. others involved brand new suppose of the state of the arctic pipelines. while we step back and look at the last 12 months, i think it's impossible to conclude that our pipeline safety laws are working as intended. we need to seize this opportunity to reauthorize and update the pipeline safety statute. the senate commerce committee has produced a moderate a bipartisan bill. i think the senate bill was a good place to start, and i hope we can work together to strengthen and improve that bill. the discussion draft will be examined today and contains several of the same provisions, but also weakens some other professions. with the benefit of the testimony will hear today let us use this discussion draft as a foundation to craft a strong bill together. i don't think there's any reason for this to be a partisan issue. we want to work in a cooperative fashion to produce a good bill that will meaningfully enhance pipeline safety. i want to yield of the remainder of my time to mr. greene from texas. >> thank you. thank both of the ranking under the full committee and the subcommittee for giving me time to speak. i'm pleased we're having this hearing today. pipeline safety is probably of the upmost importance of my constituents because many are in a place in the industry and thousands live in communities near pipelines in the district. as the process moves forward and look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to build consensus and we will be able to update the regulations in a way that makes sense. so far, i am pleased with the senate bill which is moving quickly as garnered bipartisan support, and i hope that we can have the same success here. this hearing is a valuable step to analyze the strength of both bills and examine areas that need improvement and i appreciate the witnesses to be here and our colleagues and mr. chairman, we have to get this right for a pipeline safety because the alternative is putting more trucks on the road carrying the same chemicals or the same products and that's why this is so important. i yield back my time. >> thank you. at this time we will hear testimony from the first panel of witnesses. i would first like to recognize the congressman from montana. >> thank you for recognizing me and i want to offer my sincere appreciation to you, chairman sullivan for sharing this meeting today, mr. upton for calling the meeting our ranking member who rushed for your kind assistance today and your recognition of the paddle that follows the two of us because the staff put a lot of work into it and i think you are going to hear a lot about the necessity and the opportunities in pipeline safety. your committee must accomplish two critical things to the first we need to share our knowledge in regard to the exxonmobil stultz we can determine what needs to be done to prevent it from happening again. second as the congress moves forward with authorization of the pipeline infrastructure community protection act of 2011i want to be absolutely certain we are doing everything we can to prevent future environmental help economic impact from pipeline failures. for many the silver tip pipeline braking was just another news story about an oil spill but for montana this is our home. water into rivers played a role in the lives of many. for the mclean family and the famous movie river runs through, it was the big river. for me and my family it's the old stone river. i grew up in doublings just a few miles from the banks of the old stone. i swam in that river and spent time with my family and friends floating down and enter tubes and barbecue on akaka, the banks and i've lost a couple of my friends and separate drowning accidents. we have questions and deserve answers. montana's warehouse of energy options comedies energy options help us provide the energy this country needs to end our addiction to foreign oil and creates a good paying jobs is a while there may be some people who think we should develop our resources without any regard to the environment that's not me. and there are others who think we should stop of an impact on the environment whatsoever. that's not me either. neither of these options work for montana or america. i'm a fifth generation montanan. i hope to pass on to the sixth generation. i was a rancher before i can to congress and i will be after leave congress read and ironically, have a petroleum pipeline that crisscrosses the ranch. i can't begin to tell you what good neighbors they have been. they monitor it and work it. i received no financial benefit. my great-grandfather actually granted the easement for this pipeline so this kind pipeline legislation would matter a lot to i want to know the private property rights are respected and people are respected and that the environment is respected as well because while it received no financial benefit from a pipeline losses might branch, i would have the benefit or the failure in the problems side note of the killers of a pipeline that exist so this kind of legislation is important to those of us that work the land. we must demand for adoption a way to utilize natural resources while doing everything we can to protect the environment. it's a reasonable responsible expectation. the united states is leading the way providing effective energy. we are not perfect but when there's a skull or mistake you won't find more scrutinized response in the world. this is one of the reasons domestic energy production is a good idea to read our standard of expectations are so much higher than the countries we in portfolio from a kilowatt per hour in the united states is on balance going to be cleaner and safer than a kilowatt we import. in montana, one of the most valuable resources is nature itself. montana gets it, we don't just visit the of course, we live there. that's why police said they are excellent stewards of the land and we don't need federal bureaucrats telling us how to manage our land and wildlife. it was a failure that did not live up to the standard and we want to know why and what is being done and we want to know how to prevent it in the future and that is what this hearing is about. in the meantime, montana of all background have come together in the valley to clean up this mess. exxonmobil has hundreds of people on the ground working closely with local, state and federal officials and they are joined by scores of regular montana volunteering their time to help and up the spill. maybe more than any testimony here, i think that speaks volumes about the urgency of the response in montana when the chips are down you don't wait for outside help, you roll your sleeves, join your neighbor on the front line. again thank you for the hearing today. i'm ready to answer any questions from my perspective of being on the ground from day one of july 1st reading to the to working with exxon, epa and anybody else to see one colin what happened to, we fix the problems country that this never happens again. thank you, mr. sherman. >> i would like to make an announcement, i would like to announce the third panel will be testifying next thursday as we expect a lot of votes on the floor here very soon in the next hour, so why it was for that. it seems to be a will to work better if we do that and i apologize. thank you. next time pleased to welcome congresswoman jadacki speier to deliver her testimony. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member rush and colleagues for the opportunity to speak to you. let me say at the outset that i am thrilled that this committee is going to move swiftly to address this issue. i have a couple of concerns i will address this morning. but at the outset, let me say before september 9th, i knew very little about this issue. i now feel like i have a ph.d. in it. i knew about the national transportation safety board, i knew nothing about things -- i didn't know what the maximum operating pressure was. i didn't know what a psi was, but i know all about all of those today. i also know that i went to the funeral of eight people in my district. i visited the burn center in san francisco deutsch clearest southern victim's palm on to life for four, five, six months. this is a tragedy not just for the san francisco bay area, this is a natural story and an international story. so for as much as we are talking about to become there are a couple things that are not in this bill that need to be addressed. one is if you look at pipeline safety is directly and the laws that we put on the books, we grandfathered all of the pipes that were pre-1970. so all the older types are not subject to the same scrutiny the new pipes are. this was a pipe that was actually placed in service in 1956. it's got lots of problems in the transportation safety board will come out with this report at the end of august. they appear to be stalled. the operator didn't know what was under the ground, fought with the seamless pipe but it was seemed. it didn't have the instrumentality to determine the wells were poor, had maximum allowable operating pressures that exceeded what probably should have been used. but having said all that, they followed the law because they were grandfathered anbar. now, i've introduced legislation that addresses these elements. the local operator in my community has implemented every single measure that's in my bill. they've done it for a lot of reasons, but they're looking at overall billion dollars in liability right now. and for all the operators across the country, the kind of steps we are recommending are very important. one of the things that is not addressed in either bill is notice to the resident. pg&e has noticed everyone in their region if there 2000 feet from a transmission line. that's important and good not just for the resident, but for the operator. if the homeowner doesn't know they have a transmission line in their backyard or front yard and they're putting that the unit, the are not going to take the kind of precautions necessary. and as we know in propensity, most collectors occur from third-party impact. so that's a very important feature. they did a swiftly. it was not i think in extraordinary cost to them and it's noticed to not only the president but it's also noticed to the local first responder. the fire chief in san bruno didn't even know there was a transmission line running through the middle of the street. it took one hour and 40 minutes or more for pg&e to turn off the gas. i am passing out to you photographs. this shows you the kind of fireball 30 feet in the air or higher. they thought it was a plane that crashed at first. it took an hour and 40 minutes to turn off the gas because they had to go all the way to another community to get the key to open the gate to get to the velte. if there are automatic and remote shot off valves required in high consequence areas, these are areas where you have high population or seismic risk that could have been turned off within 20 minutes at the very most. for the fire raged for an hour and a half taking the lives and extensive property, over 37 homes were demolished and if you look at this, it looks like a war zone in many of the pictures, and this community is still trying to recover today. as a, i think it's very important for us to look at putting automatic and remote shutoffs involves not just on the new construction. it's the most abominable construction that is pre-1970 that we should be concerned about, and we should be concerned about it in high consequential areas. where there is high population, the population has grown up around transmission lines that were put in place many decades ago. it's no one's fault at this point. it's just the we've got to make it safe for the consumers, for their ratepayers, and i think as we look at the costs are associated with it i can tell you as one person who's witnessed this firsthand if it means slightly more on my bill to make sure there's going to be safety first the line willing to pay that price to make sure lives are not lost. i have a written statement that i am not going to spend much time on because i think that it kind of speaks for itself, but i do want you to appreciate that there has to be disclosure of the location of the pipelines to the first responders. if they don't know what they're located, if they are not trained, then they are sitting ducks when an explosion occurs. there has to be notice to the consumer that automatic and remote shot off fouls need to be put in place in high consequence areas. the language in both bills is really pretty squishy. it's basically, you know, they need to use the best technology moving forward. well, i am much more concerned about the older pipelines than i am the new or pipelines. and for all those operators that have pipelines that they do not have paperwork for, and in a 30% of the pg&e system, they do not have paperwork. they do not know what is under the ground. in those situations, that pipeline needs to be hydro tested because there is no way of knowing whether or not it is safe. there's start digging but if you've got the diameter that ranges from 30 to 24 to 40, you're not going to be able to use smart picking. so the only way to make sure that that is safe is to do the hydrostatic testing. none of that frankly is in the legislation today. so, i urge my colleagues to recognize if these pictures don't speak a thousand words, i don't know what does. this is not anything you want to have happen in your district and when it does, it consumes you for years, and it's been a huge hole in my region and something that really needs to be addressed on the federal level. i yield back. >> thank you, congresswoman. i but like to recognize myself for a question. can you briefly tell us about how the unified command is working? >> yes, you may have seen where the governor told of the fight command, but for the most part, it did work extremely well together. there's probably some politics over policy involved in the situation, but we are really pleased with the epa has done a great job. we have the coast guard involved in the u.s. fish and wildlife service, the state department of the park's in the state of montana, and really they worked well together and that doesn't always happen. one of the reasons i think it's because exxon stepped forward and said we are responsible. as you know, with of the gulf situation we have a lot of finger-pointing. everyone says not me, not me. in this case exxon said we are going to make you whole and stay until the job is done and clean up the environment. we are going to pay those that have a loss of use other properties and so, you know, to release some of the fears of the economics so that people can't graze their pastures because of the oil residue exxon has gotten people working to figure out a fair settlement so that they can get in and fix it. so, for the first part the coverage has been good and the comments have been as good as possible every emotional situation. but we just appreciate the federal effort, the state effort, the local effort and the company effort to do the best they can. nobody wanted this to happen, most of all the company did not put a unified command has worked well and it's been a good process to take us into the questions. >> i would like to recognize the ranking member to ask a question. >> estimate to congressman rehberg, a representative who represents an area where [inaudible] >> yes, sir we actually have three refineries in the areas as a major part of our -- >> it is exon, comco and then -- >> i'm sorry. i misunderstood. i just want to -- congressman speier, mostly i identify with your comments the state's attorney in the county area and he's afraid that we have not had the kind of economy that you may experience. we are afraid that that is going to happen. we see those start off as we start out small until we have the explosion. i certainly concur with your attitude about how we can strengthen this bill and i won the distinction for your timeliness and comment sacrifice. i think you have helped us taking your address into consideration you have helped us and i really appreciate the fact that you are coming to help us out. i'm curious in this comment to your citizens. you seem to be disappointed, very disappointed. how can we really assure that we know who lives in the communities than they have come to response and alerts and have some prior knowledge. if they knew or they know they have pipelines running close to their properties and they will be more mindful of some of the things that give some for warnings. so how can we -- can you address the issue of qaeda notification on the constituents? >> thank you, ranking member rush. i would be happy to. it's important to know the industry has been dredging policy not surprising but the jury much the case as it relates to pipeline safety. most of the studies commissioned , 60% of them are funded by the trade association, and the trade association determines whether or not to do certain studies. the trade association has also developed the, quote, educational component and a pg&e case, they paid an entity somehow related to the trade association to do education and they did a survey and the survey was exposed to the national transportation subcommittee board that occurred in march on the explosion and it was shameful to have much money was spent on the survey to the ratepayers they got a response of 15 people, cells in such surveys cent and 15 people responded. pg&e has taken it upon themselves to notify every resident. they did it simply and swiftly. if you're going to build people you can send a separate the defection to tell them they are within 2,000 feet of a transmission line. now, it's important to the president, but it's also important to the operator. because the third party who digs are the most likely occurrence of ruptures. so the right to know should be very important to everybody. to those living next to a transmission line to the first responders and that's when i think it's critical. the education has been absolutely pointless and i think that we need to take the next step in terms of the retina. a speck of a to thank the panelists, congresswoman speier and congressman rehberg, thank you so much. now we would like to move to the next panel. let's get them up here. thanks. the senate special committee on aging and the senate health and pensions committee organized a discussion on the 401(k) accounts and retirement savings. specifically the so-called leak occurs when individuals cash out their accounts or take out loans against them. we'll hear about two new studies, one that examines an increase in the amount of money being withdrawn from the 401(k) accounts before retirement and another that explores the racial disparities and retirement savings accounts and early withdrawals. it will also hear about the proposed legislation to revise current policy on early withdrawals from retirement savings. this is 40 minutes. >> good morning. my name's john and i am an analyst and income security at the congressional research service. crs provides non-partisan policy analysis to the members of congress and the kennedys. ensuring americans have adequate income in retirement is an interest of many members of congress and through the tax code, congress provides incentives to encourage retirement savings. about 50% of full-time workers save for retirement using a defined contribution plan at which the 401(k) plan is very common. some of the tax incentives are designed to ensure money is kept in their retirement accounts and so there is concerns about pre-access -- access to the retirement accounts before retirement. and these are what we refer to as leakages. there are generally three areas. taking out loans while working, making withdrawals and also cashing out when switching jobs. allowing access to the fund is in the retirement account before retirement may undermine saving for retirement, but the same time plan participants may value the access they have to their funds particularly in emergencies and allowing access may increase contribution rates for the participation. so, the goal is to find a balance between limiting the leakages while the same time allowing access to those who might be in need. senators serve cold wisconsin and mike enzi of wyoming have introduced bipartisan legislation that would address some of these concerns. senate bill 1121 the savings enhancement by a leading leakages in the 401(k) savings act of 2011 with a sealed 401(k) savings act. and this bill would do three things. wanton it would extend the period for the loan amounts, so leaving a job when he have an outstanding loan can be problematic because if the loan can be considered a distribution and may be subject to tax for an additional 10% penalty, the seals sitting sector give employees more time in which to pay back their loan if they lose their jobs. second, the bill would allow contributions during the six months following the hardship withdraw. irs regulations currently prohibit elective contributions to a 401(k) plan during the six months following the partial withdrawal and this bill would eliminate the requirement. third, this bill would ban the 401(k) debit cards. the bill would prohibit products that could allow individuals easier access to their 401(k) retirement accounts. the two reports the will be presented today highlight some of these concerns with regards to the retirement income security. first, there's a survey of 110 first, there's a survey of 110 large defined contribution plans, and it looks at loans and hardship withdrawals and it knows these increased in recent years particularly in light of the economic downturn and make recommendations with regards to the leakages from retirement accounts. the second report is a study of racial and ethnic disparities within the 401(k) plans. the study finds that participation and contribution rates are lower than the african-american and hispanic workers and that these workers are more likely to have all standing loans against the 401(k) plans. the two speakers, we have alison borland and amar parikh. alison the strategy development for aon hewitt's retirement outsourcing business. she uses her expertise and knowledge of the marketplace to develop and implement uniques solutions to support their client's efforts with to help their employees achieve retirement leveraging aon hewitt plan participants and under this plan to the plan sponsors to identify and and stand trends and opportunities in the retirement programs. she has co-authored a some of aon hewitt's most respected surveys and studies such as hot topics in retirement and retirement income adequacy the real deal, and contributed to the study of the 401(k) plans in living color from a study of the 401(k) disparities among racial and ethnic groups, the study in 2008 she was recognized as one of the 25 women to watch business insurance. prior to this role, alison was a leader of defined contribution practice. .. >> prior to adjoining the firm in 2006 served as an audit manager the insurance financial services provider and also at ernst in beyond and graduated from -- management information systems and earning the mba from the university of chicago. >> good morning. there has been a lot of attention on focus the that acquit accumulation the fact that the dissidents are not saving enough. there has not been as much attention on another significant problem is after money goes into the plan a lot of money comes out. as previously mentioned we decided to take a deeper look to collect data on 1.8 million participants over 110 countries to better understand where their real problems lie. we also surveyed 200 sponsors last october to better understand whether or not this is a concern and if they plan to take action about it. our study focused on the three areas of loans, active withdrawals, taking money out of the plan while still working, and cash shouts upon job termination. t.a.r.p -- talk about lows there at the all-time high according to data 20% of active for disciplines have the outstanding loan at the end of 2010 during 2010 almost 14 percent of active bridges finance initiated a new loan and the average balance is about $7,800 which represented 20% of the purchase of pence 401(k) balance. when we look at who takes those it is primarily participants in their forties in the middle of their career earning average pay of 40 and $60,000. the good news is more than 80% of participants continue to say that the pre-low savings rate while they repay the loan. so they also continue to save so for those who keep working to follow that behavior the lowest in not necessarily results in the difference but there is a big problem when they terminate employment. of those, 70 percent defaulted. that is the big issue. 70% in 2010. higher for younger ages the participants in their twenties 79% defaulted come in their sixties, 60% but either way it is still very, very high. we look at active workers less than 3 percent default. and as mentioned earlier we do think and research has shown participants are more likely to participate if available upon need. so you may focus of the ability to repay loans after termination to help reduce the rate of default. moving up to plan sponsors asking about their concerns the overwhelming majority, 94% said they were concerned about high load utilization. however only 25 percent said they plan to take action. of lot of concern but not a lot of taking action. those are the loans. now about withdrawals. they are available for certain hard chips and also available to participants who are 59 in a half in some access may be with employer funded dollars as well. those withdrawals were close to the all-time high almost 7 percent of participants took a withdrawal. if we break those down, 20% were due to hard share. that is 1.4% of active for disciplines and if we look at those reasons, the number one answer by far was due to foreclosure or even action. it is by a very small number and they seem to be taken for a very good reason. however with the six month suspension zero security and that some maybe able to start soon -- saving sooner and no ability to be paid that hardship. when we ask sponsors about their concerns, again the overwhelming majority say they are concerned about high with straw utilization and only 12% take action or plan to to curb the usage. now to the cash out, they are a savings' killer. when they cash out they cash out the entire balance not just of a portion. when we look at participant behavior in 2010 portrait -- 42% cashed out the balance. the other 50% was split evenly between rolling into the other i.r.a. are keeping it in the plan. this is highly correlated to balance. participants with the balance less than $1,000, a 75% cash out or forced and those with more than $100,000 only 10% cashed out. still too high but there is a high correlation. if we look at the amount of assets leaving the plan or being cashed out, we see a different picture with 55% of the assets remaining 38% below a rolled out in 7% being cashed out. we see younger purchase a 10 c2 changed jobs who are at risk of cashing out multiple times a risk of eroding the entire savings and those with the largest balances recognizing the fact the big plants have low fees for those with the big balances take advantage to the their money and the plan. regardless of how you look at it but we have heard some noise in the marketplace that automatic enrollment creates a problem within a few years later they cash out any way so it is not increasing savings so we did compared dead cash out rate of those who are automatically enrolled in those who were not and found they were the same. we did not find it significantly increase the cash out rate it was the balance driving back. in spite of the fact the cash out potentially is the huge leakage issue, fewer sponsors are concerned but with hardship withdrawals, 12% plan to take action. we see some different patterns the biggest issue is the default on termination but hardship withdraw it does not appear there is a lot of abuse, however the six months' suspension and the inability to repay those nine of retirement accumulation and for those who change jobs frequently, it is a deal breaker for any opportunity to take those assets. that includes the results of our study and now we have a similar analysis using similar metrics. >> they key for the opportunity to present today i will be focused on analysis and recommendation from the 401(k) plans and savings across racial and ethnic groups. the last 12 years we have the aerial shots of black investors survey looking at differences between blacks and whites. 2009 we decide to take moore's extensive approach african-americans asians and whites and collect 401(k) data for pro as of december 2007 for 3 million purchase of dance inside the 57 largest u.s. companies. including race and ethnicity gender salary age job tenure and other factors. then we analyze the data was something that had never been done before at such a large scale. the first thing you want to say we did not believe the ability to receive the loan should be eliminated and recognize this is a factor to encourage people to participate in the first place. but high unemployment poses serious dangers for individuals with loans. when they terminated most have from to repayment of loans it is the distribution resulting in taxes and penalties. it is a permanent reduction in their retirement savings. african-americans and hispanics are much more likely to have outstanding loans and we found two out of five african americans having an outstanding 401(k) loans out of 5% of white and 60 percent asian. the percentage rate peaks in the 30 and $90,000 range the missing the salary increase but the disparity is the same almost every single and com level. look at jade -- age and tenure african-americans are more likely to have a loan than whites and hispanics 53% more likely. agents were 6% less likely when we control for other factors. but their fundamental aspects could be changed in order to make them less harmful to the participants. for hardship withdrawals we believe these could be devastating not only with the penalty and taxes but lose out on the compounding effect. unfortunately withdrawn money is not paid back and african americans are by far the most likely to take a hardship withdrawal. we found a 7.8 percent of african-americans took the withdrawal of compared to 3.4% in 2% of agents. the figures or even worse than 11 percent of african-americans with a hard to a foot tall and 9% took ad was thrall compared to 6% of men. when we control for other factors that african americans were 167% more likely to take a withdrawal than whites and hispanics were 50% more likely. for the recommendation we believe the individual is responsible for their own retirement savings but there are actions employers and employees and government can undertake to improve the situation in. the first recommendation is to encourage employers voluntarily collected data by race and ethnicity it is that important first up to eliminate disparity and not a one-size-fits-all approach works. the tracking of the information can help employers recognize disparity enacted the best interest of the employees. they can encourage voluntary collecting and the dip data and we're just asking for voluntary reporting and not a mandate or in a lot to be put into place for the federal government could provide guidelines such as measures and frequency of collection. third, members of congress can work with employers how to facilitate tracking that would allow for better benchmarking between employers. the second recommendation is tied to this bill which is modify loan requirements to decrease the likelihood of default. we believe in extending the amount of time you have to pay off all non will pay off better for it african-american and hispanic. but here are some of the falling provide a longer period every attainment right now they require that could be extended much further. allow loans and repayments after termination they could pay with a predetermined schedule worked out with their employer and also the 401(k) balance could be bowled over to the next employer and they could be encouraged to continue the loan payments which is preferable to cashing out. in the third recommendation is provide education both curriculum's we believe this is the most important solution to have behavioral aspects and understand this is that the state level so this is something that has to come from that. but in the end we applied that step in the right direction but it serves as a cornerstone for all americans. in conclusion all steadied partners think said disparities must be addressed immediately. 13 knowledge the differences we could implement tangible solutions. through a long-term commitment they will enable all americans to achieve the american dream. thank zero. >> real-life to open up to any questions. >> what is the potential to reducing participation. >> that is a good question. with respect to luntz we recognize it if you restrict the access so we would not necessarily advocate restricting access to release one loan for purchase of fans who are in need of making the loans easier to read pay would create a better solution buffer hardship withdrawals it does not appear they are not necessarily being abused that we do think there could be work done to help educate purchase of finance and ensure that they take it for greece in to encourage the safe harbor reasons some have a much more liberal definition of the hardship need but not necessarily eliminate them or access for those who are in need a we have spoken about some of the things that could be done to reduce the negative impact of those taking the hardship withdrawal. cash shouts are another story and the defined benefit plan they cannot access their money when they change jobs necessarily so maybe thought to be given two things that weather voluntarily by plan designer encouragement from the federal government there is some opportunity there but maybe additional analysis could be done to understand the impact of any of those actions. >> do you know, the effect of these provisions nonparticipation but there is also the aspect of the effective these provisions on the employer's decision to have a plan. in the more provisions that you mandate by law, such as requiring the employer to maintain a relationship with the employee after they have left could affect the employer's decision to sponsor a plan. right? is there any analysis done on that side of the equation? >> in our conversations some all-out practice offense to repay loans over a period time but unfortunately it is the minority. not the clients with whom we have worked have questioned whether or not they want to offer a plan at all. there has been nothing other than bigger extreme ideas to be discussed so with the changeover loan provisions provisions, the vast majority of sponsors are concerned so we don't anticipate, especially a voluntary encouragement to allow them more flexibility to cause them to question whether or not to offer a plan. if you took this down the extreme pass to add a significant number of mandates, perhaps that could have that effect but that is not what we have seen in the marketplace today it. >> the option to pay back after they leave which i think it seems like requiring them to do that will put to enough of the bird and so the employers that the march in me effect their decision to either offer a loan facility or a plan to begin with. >> some of the bird and isn't necessarily on plan sponsors but the providers. as a result of this study we have made it significantly easier to allow participants to repay loans after terminations of the private sector can do more to support that as well. we are starting to have these conversations with our clients at a much lower cost. i don't know if they view it as as we don't want to do that so we want to end the relationship but they may have been difficult with their provider or maybe other reasons for crow so considering the viability of offering a plan and seeing concerns from sponsors to improve their results. i am not terribly concerned by changing a loan provision would put it at risk overall. others would disagree. >> host: remember 401(k) is employee benefit so people see that as attractive. in order to be competitive you went to offer the best one possible. people don't think they would eliminate the 401(k) because of the issues of provisions but something that may add more to the administrative burden but they will take that to strengthen their 401(k). >> i am wondering if you collect any data about said different types of companies? i wonder if their relationships with the 401(k) withdrawals were planned terminations varied on how long they have been in business? macquarie on your new emerging companies include did zero or more of the blue-chip companies? >> please read 54 in 57 were fortune 500 companies they were well-established. that is the date is said that was examined. they don't tend to be quite as large swimming they were spread across -- spread across different areas to say they would be more likely to withdraw their loan been another industry? >> those surveyed actively engaged in a practice of giving 401(k) debit lowered check cards to their employees? >> nine of those have considered that of sinn today. we do tend to work with larger companies. the view of the plan sponsors tend to be that would create the opportunity for abuse. i do understand at one point* was made available in the marketplace and we have that same perspective it could create with over utilization. any other questions? >> [inaudible] >> short dancer, and no. >> that move jobs often and coming off on the education component you mentioned at the end of your opening. what should younger workers those who have a detailed scenario of those through from job to job? >> there is a lot that sponsors can do in they can do more broadly to educate. if you give someone $1 and they give you $2 back how many times will you do that? >> forever. why is it purchase of 102k get dollar for dollar, it is a basic concept to get a little bit and get more back immediately and that is a return on your money so it is a basic concept when you call it the it it is like to raise some more use that to education for a job transfer it is easy if you have to hundred dollars to save of the deal. after taxes and penalties it is cut in half but that is not that much money any way but compounded interest? that is the of her financial literacy that is a lot of money at retirement. providing education to encourage that perspective and to no matter how small, i do not allow them to cash out. keep it in the system is incredibly important. whether modeling tools are forms of education our research has shown with the diversity not limiting to paper but also too just mobile devices and use the internet and whole variety of media so your interactive voice all different types of employees. talk about participants in their twenties or forties or six days across the demographics 31 to engage them one way or another. unfortunately too many people when they start their first job they don't know what the 401(k) is in health care is complicated. of we could do more to encourage those concepts before whether an elementary school or high school that is a starting point*. but then there is more that could be done upon higher to a courage that utilization and knowledge. i am not sure i am directly answering your question. but there is a lot of opportunity an important from the cash our data. >> what we found truly effective with the african-american and hispanic work groups, you may have black engineers group or maybe even at the churches. when people think of financial literacy the h.r. person gives a one-hour lecture but these are groups that inform the minority groups and truly trust them more than the company h.r. person. once they can leverage those groups like a church, u.s groups or whenever for what they look for, that is where the real power will come from to get two different ethnicities. remember their goals are completely different. when you ask a caucasian person what they think about retirement but if you ask african-american and african american they will continue working war start a business. it is not the one standard amplitude give to somebody sir you also need to leverage the education process. >> only one-third of large companies have the open pension plan and many employees don't even have social

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