History of the Confederate Flag and much more. For a complete Television Schedule visit booktv. Org. Booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. Television for serious readers. And now from the spy museum here in washington d. C. , bryan denson talks about Jim Nicholson, the highest ranking cia officer ever convicted of espionage. [inaudible conversations] and a hush fell over the audience. [laughter] its terrific. You guys are a great audience. I am peter earnest, the executive director and absolutely delighted to have you here this evening. Its always were always not sure what an author will draw, and clearly you have driven drawn a very good crowd. And i think youre in for the telling of a really very strange story, but a very well told story. I would ask you, please as a courtesy to the speaker if youd be kind enough to turn off your cell phones and other electronic data. Weve got both were both taping and cspan is as well. So that would they can occasionally interfere. So these cases of Intelligence Officers gone bad, fortunately there are not so many of them, but there are enough that its very hard for people who were in the profession to react when they happen. I was certainly i knew the ames case very well having been a colleague for some time. And we always say when something happens and one of these cases is rolled up and theres an arrest made, well that insures there wont be any more for a long time. In the case of Nicholson Ames was arrested and tried within the early period of 94 nicholson walked in, as we say, or volunteered precisely at that time. So so much for that adage, that nothing is going to happen. The the spys son, the true story of the highest ranking cia officer ever convicted of espionage and the son he trained for russia. The author is bryan denson who has been here in the past in 2011, i believe it was, bryan to talk about the case. At that point you did not have a book underway. It then took you five years to get the book down, five years of tough work. Bryan was a journalist in oregon working for the oregonian in portland, and when the trial was held, my understanding is you were in the front row for the entire trial. I notice from your acknowledgments you have talked of many, many good folks in the Intelligence Community in doing the story. Its the in fact, you covered the federal courthouse, didnt you . That was your beat. So it was a natural. Yeah. You have not done anything previously on espionage and spies, this was your first cut. And at the time you were here you were going to appear with brian kelly who was a very distinguished Intelligence Officer who passed away shortly before bryan appeared and so someone substituted for brian so were delighted to have you back. The accounts in here that ive read of what youve gleaned both from the fbi from other accounts of the case are excellent. Theyre right on the mark. Youve got all your trade craft down. So if this journalism thing and authorship doesnt work out, you know cia is still out there okay . [laughter] bryan has won the george polk award and has been a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, so please help me in welcoming bryan denson. [applause] i always laugh when i hear that a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize thing because the truth is that means you finished second, and in this country thats no good can. [laughter] i want to thank peter for having me in. I love this place and i have to tell you, this is like the greatest Home Court Advantage in the world. I grew up 35 miles from here. I have High School Friends i have college friends, i have people i ran with and against some of them still running some of them looking extremely fit. It pisses me off. [laughter] i was here in 2011. I didnt know the first thing about spies in 2009 when this case came to the courthouse. I know quite a lot about it now. Ive traveled to far corners as far as cyprus. Im going to run a slide show here that begins right there and im going to just let et if i get can really boring, just watch the slide show, and youll get the gist it. In the annals of american espionage, Jim Nicholson is the highest ranking cia officer ever convicted of espionage as the rather long subtitle of the book suggests. Hes the only twotime turncoat in u. S. History. Some focus call him the double hitter. Hes the only spy ever convicted of doing it again from behind the bars of a prison, in this case the federal prison in oregon, and hes the only american spy taken down, i have to say this very carefully the only american spy taking down in a spy v. Spy operation under the roof at cia headquarters at langley. Another cia officer who ill introduce in just a moment, did that. So we have two crimes that took place over long periods of time. 1997 was when he was rolled up in the first case, as peter mentioned. He sold 300,000 worth of secrets to the russian ill get into that, and later from behind bars he recruited his young son to do this. And it was, for me, more than an espionage story although it is an interesting one, really its a story about fathers and sons which is probably why my publisher insisted we get this thing out just before fathers day. [laughter] although i dont think anybody is going to nominate Jim Nicholson for father of the year, at least not soon. Let me tell you just a few things about Jim Nicholson just to start off. He came from a military family steeped in patriotism, charming cunning, good looking smart. Fouryear rotc scholarship at oregon state university. Army captain, married at 22, father at 28, joins the cia in the early years of the Reagan Administration when the agencys booming and the principal u. S. Mission is very, very clear; win the cold war. He earns the nickname batman early in his career. And to this day at the supermax where hes serving his long prison term in florence, colorado, he still signs some of his artwork as batman. By 40 jim is a cia station chest in bucharest romania. As communist nations crumble across europe. On christmas day, 1991, the soviet union crumbles, and cause it happens so does his very turbulent marriage. His serial infidelities, his wife says he got the maid pregnant in manila and had an affair with his intercepter in thailand while interpret in thailand while she was bangkok. To hear lori say it he did it all across southeast asia. Things were so bad that lori too had an affair with the veterinarian in bucharest. Apparently, the vets are happy to make house calls. [laughter] so there was a major showdown in the nicholson home. Jim and lori split. She moves the kids to the u. S. Jim is reassigned, gets a little bit of a pay not a pay drop, but a role drop as a deputy chief running spy operations though. There he begins to fight a very, very messy divorce and custody battle. Hes angry at his wife. Hes having a nervous breakdown. Hes angry at his country. He feels let down by the cia and hes mildly angry, i think, at himself. During so jim could have gone for help, but he didnt. He was running out of money to arrange this custody of his kids. He felt he had really betrayed his children, his three children, and wanted desperately to have them around. So during a routine meeting in kuala lumpur with the top official in russias newlycreated Foreign Spy Service and a former kgb general is here, and hes going to absolutely kill me for bastardizing my pronunciation but its the [speaking russian] is it even close . All right. The sbr, which is the group that took over the Foreign Spy Service that had once been a wing of the kgb. So jim is in a meeting, an authorized meeting by the cia there in kuala lumpur of the russian spy service, and he says hes in trouble and he needs 25,000. The gentleman there says, this can be arranged. And sure enough, jim has opened the door that wont be shut, cant be shut. Hes a walkin, as peter was mentioning. Hes a volunteer spy to sell out his countrys secrets. And he does this just a few months after ames was arrested which is asson isishing to people astonishing to people in the intelligence field and astonishing, should be astonishing to everyone because ames was easily the worst traitor in the cias history a deadly one caused a number of deaths. Jim takes the 25 grand buys lori out, moves the kids to malaysia and moonlights on governmentpaid Vacation Time as a government can spy. For the next two years he accepts tasks to obtain and hand over some of the nations most closelyguarded secrets. He will earn 300,000, as i mentioned before. Meanwhile, u. S. Intelligence folks get a tip from a number of places but particularly one, a russian spy who is now working for the cia that steers them toward jim. And an investigation ultimately is opened. By 1995 jim is back in the u. S. Hes working and teaching trade craft, the art of spying, spy craft, at the farm which is the covert Training Center in virginia. Jim will eventually give the russians the identities of at least 300 of the cias career trainees. These are the folks who are in training at the farm and a bunch of them jim taught himself. Some of these betrayed are nonofficial cover folks the folks who go in posing as someone they are entirely not. They dont have any diplomatic cover, and jim put their lyes at terrible their lives at terrible risk because if theyre caught, they can be killed. The Clinton Administration forces the cia and the fbi who are rarely good friends to pull together in south in counterspy operations. They want to keep an eye on jim, essentially, is what theyre doing. And im just going to start off with a small reading from chapter five which is actually kind of my favorite chapter. Langley, virginia, summer 1996, and im going to introduce you to the man who got that job. John mcguire sat in a cubicle village on the second floor of cia headquarters, a clean wellcarpeted place full of file cabinets and misery. After 14 years of exciting spy work he now labored in utter obscurity in a pool of Human Resources mopes. Mcguire had spent most of his years in the agency on the front lines of the cold war, although more recently as a counterterrorism operative in the middle east. He had served in el salvador honduras lebanon and iraq, but now it was abundantly clear that at 42 his oncepromising career in espionage was over. Mcguire had gotten crossways with his boss for refusing to take an overseas posting in karachi, pakistan. His penance was a position in hr. In the bowels of the cias original headquarters building, a part of the agencys sprawling, highlysecured compound in the Langley Community of mcclain virginia. There he drank sweetened coffee and pushed pencils, pouring through the files of other cia officers to determine those wore hawaii of promotions, unlike him worthy of promotions. Mcguire was broken from time to time by the prank calls of colleagues still performing actual spywork. Some disguised their voices before busting a gut, others phoned to make such helpful declarations as youre so fuc thed. One day he heard the voice of anna the secretary of the near east division. Anna was something of an aging miss moneypenny, and she enjoyed to bleak horsepower of her division chief. When anna called you paid attention. When you needed help, she was your oracle. Need to proof check an official memo . She pored over it, caught your errors. Need to reach someone at white house . She had the number. Screw up badly she dressed you down leaving you standing with your shoes smoking as if youd been struck by lightning. Anna was a striken statuesque woman with raven hair. If they liked you, they could make your life easier. Anna seemed to like mcguire. How are you doing k she asked. Im trying not to kill myself in my seat, he said. Come upstairs, he heard her say. Come up to me right now. Okay. Like so many times in his career mcguire could only imagine the fresh patch of hell in front of him. He had served seven years as a cop in his native baltimore then 14 more as a spy. He understood the swift decisive nature of bureaucrats whose sudden decrees often fell into sub board nates subordinates laps. He hauled his frame out of his chair and slipped away quietly. He caught an elevator to the sixth floor one level before where the director of Central Intelligence runs the show. There outside his boss door he found anna at her desk. She steered him into the office and the door closed. He stood in front of a familiar wooden desk behind which sat steve richter, a key part of the cias clandestine wing who oversaw spy operations across the middle east. Mcguire thought his boss was one of the smartest and most talented of the senior Intelligence Officers and also one of most vindictive. Mcguires boss not known for warm and fuzzy moments didnt invite him to take a seat. It would be a short meeting. I have an assignment for you, richter said, i cant tell you anything about it. He told mcguire he needed an answer then and there and that yes would be a good answer for his career. If he said no, all he had to do was go back downstairs and never utter a word about the conversation. You have to give me an answer now, richter said. Mcguire glanced to his right. A stranger sat on the couch. The man wore a nice suit and a blue badge denoting him as a cia staffer. Mcguire figured he was a Senior Agency man. He planted his eyes on richters face to read the reactions to his next words. Can i ask a question or two . You can ask, he said. Mcguire turned to the man on the couch. Whos this guy . Im ed kern, the stranger said standing im the highest ranking fbi agent assigned inside the cia. Fuck me, mcguire thought. His mind flew back to iraq and the troubles there. Mcguire had gotten, you know, he was operating in he took part in an operation, he took part in an operation called db achilles which was the attempted overthrow of saddam hussein. It had not worked out well for him. In fact, 80 men were killed as a result. And im just going to sort of skip ahead on that part. So he decides mcguire figured that the new assignment richter was offering might be a hamhappenedded set up for questioning hamhanded set up for questioning by the fbi. He could turn down a potentially choice assignment and retreat to the cubicle dungeon and the slow immolation of his soul or he could do as the paratroopers say in that instant before leaping out of airplanes pull the cord, trust the lord. Whatever it is, ill do it. Wise choice richter said. Mcguire could sense that the meeting was over. Curran, no doubt amused by the exchange, gave mcguire orders. Go downstairs to the lobby do not talk to anybody and tell no one where youve been. Youll meet a couple of fbi agents at the door who will give you instructions. Mcguire nodded along. He shot a glance at anna. She winked. Mcguire gets the job as Jim Nicholsons assistant, the Deputy Branch chief in this counterterrorism wing that was actually doing some of the early work to understand the wahhabi and salafi sects of the Sunni Islamist extremists who were ultimately becoming, who would ultimately become the folks who attacked this country of ours. Anyway it began a very cool investigation. In 1996 jim announced plans to take vacation in singapore. The cia and fbi took a bold and daring move, they allowed the local spy service to conduct surveillance of jim in his likely meeting. So they didnt go with the cia or the fbi and theres this great funny story about the argument that took place between curran the fbi guy, and paul redmond who was the number two guy in the counterintelligence wing at cia headquarters. The two men worked very well together but reluctantly so. At langley they got real updates, realtime updates on the operation that was running in singapore. Jim had been observed stepping into a car with russian diplomatic plates on it which was the money shot. They were very excited about that to the point where curran told me later they jumped out of their chairs at cia headquarters. Throughout the year the fbi secretly went all the way through jims underwear drawer cans on numerous occasions. Agents and their National Security lawyers had to build a legallydefensible case, legallydefensible espionage case against the cias newest judas. With permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court which has been wildly controversial as a result of the Edward Snowden revelations, the fbi put jim under physical and electronic surveillance. They rigged a video camera above his desk, they put a tiny little camera in one of the holes in those multiholed acoustic tiles and then they glued down the panel so that if he got curious and thought he might be under investigation and he pushed up, he couldnt do anything. The guys who cleared out that night dusted down a couple of little white specks of ceiling tile on his desk, and they also took pictures before and after that particular operation. They conducted sneak and peeks late at night entering his office there at langley which was behind multiple cipher lock doors and security areas. At one point theres a great scene in the book where one of the guys whos running those operations hears someone coming and has to hide in a closet there and has to wait until theyre gone, because they couldnt be seen. Even though they had clearance to be in there they would have looked out of place and if nicholson had found out about it, it would have scotched the entire operation, and he would have likely bolted. Two agents actually went undercover to buy the townhouse next the door to where jim lived, and they eavesdropped on jim and the kids. Now, at this point only two of jims kids are at home. Nathan the youngest who becomes the spys son in the story and his older daughter who went by star, goes by star, nathan was 12 at the time and star was 15. Teams secretly tailed jim all over Northern Virginia and washington a d. C. For instance, a huge team of agents tailed jim to a post office not too far from here late one evening in 1996 as he dropped a letter in the mail bound for an address in africa. They seized the letter and found a coded note to the russians signaling a meeting in switzerland. Another clever move agents waited until jim left for an overseas Counterterrorism Mission to lift his minivan off the parking lot at cia headquarters. They couldnt risk jim looking at his odometer before he left on a mission to to beirut, so they literally came in with this huge winch lifted the damn minivan with jims trademark tags on it, 8888 bat. Lifted this thing onto a flatbed and drove it to a quonset hut where they took it apart. Meanwhile, they actually had bought another identical van so thigh knew where to they knew where to look for anything he might be hiding. Inside it they found a laptop that he planned to hand over to the russians. By mid november of 96 as jim prepared to leave the u. S. For an authorized Counterterrorism Mission to europe, the fbi ultimately decides to roll him up and get it over with right there. Let me read from the opening of Chapter Seven where jims kids star and nathan have joined jims brother whos come in from oregon to take care of them. Theyre taking jim to drop him off at the airport on a rather fateful day. Sterling virginia, november 16, 1996. Jim steered his minivan to a stop in front of Dulles International airport and stepped into the brisk sun of a saturday morning. Rob climbed behind the wheel as his big brother threw his arms around the kid for one last hug, then jim was on the move again striding toward the building with its beveled wall of concrete pillars and glass. Jim turned for an instant and shot them all a grin. He had a way of smiling through his eyes. He looked like a middleaged College Professor bearded and bespectacled dressed in white slacks and a dark to have coiz button down shirt. A Brown Leather satchel hung from his shoulder. His kids returned enthusiastic waves. Nathan had turned 12 on the last day of july. He had never stayed put in one home longer than three years, accepting jims travels and new assignments without question. He was adaptable cheerful never tired of adventure. When he grew up, he hoped to be just like his dad. He reminded himself this was a short trip. A week or so and his dad would be on his way home with funny tales of foreign travel. The old man had spent less time overseas since taking the new job at headquarters, and nathan had taken advantage of his dads presence during those two years in virginia. They had drawn immensely close. With jeremy off at college nathan was pushing out of his big brothers shadow, asserting himself as jims main man. As rob steered for home in the minivan, he made an announcement to distract the kids. Were going to have an adventure this week, but nothing could prepare them for the adventure that lay ahead. Jim planned to rendezvous in the terminal with two subordinates in his ctc branch who were joining him on the trip. They were set to hop on a 32seat american Puddle Jumper to new york, then to south africa and rome on official counterterrorism business. At the end of trip, jim planned to meet with his russian handler. One of jims suitcases held nothing more than a pair of tan money belts, one he would wear under a pant leg the other around his waist. He had been promised 50,000 for the new haul. In his camera bag were ten roll of exposed but undeveloped film. They held the images of 74 classified documents, system of them stamped top secret. He also carried classified files and an encrypted message for his russian handler. Jims wallet held the Business Card of roland keller, his swiss banker. Jim strode to the American Airlines ticket window and checked his suitcase and then headed through security. He joined his two cia subordinates and climbed aboard one of the airports big boxcar on wheels contraptions known as people movers. Moments later the vehicle pulled to a halt at the midfield terminal where they debarked. Fbi agents dressed as travelers folded into the crowd, eyes on jims every move. As jim and his cia companions neared gate 24, the woman in their party an arabic language specialist suddenly walked off to hit the ladies room. Up ahead at the mouth of the gangway stood a pair of undercover fbi agents posing as husband and wife. Their objective was to wait until the cia officers entered the passageway and follow them downstairs to the tarmac, but suddenly they were the last people standing at the gate. All the other passengers had made their way to the airstrip. They couldnt appear to be waiting for jim so they launched into an improvised marital spat that rang in the ears of every agent on the team. The improvisation seemed to work. Jim and his colleagues walked past, and the agents quietly folded behind them. Agent steve hooper had walked onto the tarmac a few moments earlier wearing an American Airlines jacket and a blue ball cap with the dallas stars hockey logo on it. He had taken a position on one end of a blue metal baggage cart where a real baggage handler stared at hooper as if he had just stepped off a spaceship. Hooper a former hockey player from boston with one of those thick tom selleck moustaches, shot her a reassuring look. Dont worry, i wont be here long. Jim heard a voice. Hey, hooper called Jim Nicholson jim grinned and took a step toward hooper. Perhaps he thought the stranger knew him from somewhere or needed to talk to him about his luggage. He was still smiling when hooper got close enough to flash his credentials. Jim, fbi he said. Its over. Jim tensed and balled his fists, looking furtively past hooper. Dont try it hooper said. Its over. Dave raymond babyfaced fbi tech agent can in jean agent in jeans and an identical jacket locked his hand around jims arm. He had arrested all kinds of people in his career, most of his targets knew the day was coming, probably even expected it, but p hooper had never seen anyone look quite the way jim did just then, stone frozen, paralyzed. His eyes were vacant, he seemed unable to utter a word. Jim unclenched his fists. There would be no fight, no foot race. Above the action a member of the fbi Surveillance Team photographed the moment frame after frame documenting the takedown with such clarity you could see the crown of jims head had grown a little threadbare. One of his cia subordinates began to protest. The officer explained they were supposed to be taking an overseas business trip. He didnt understand. Canceled, an agent said. Hooper and raymond handed jim over. The three mikes as they were known, received their suspect like a group of hunters accepting a pheasant from a floppyeared springer spaniel. They had been hiding nearby watching jim hike to a plane they knew he would never board. Jims children were destroyed by his arrest. They came knocking on the door that day. And nathan answered the door. It would not be the last time that he answered the door to fbi agents. The kids moved to oregon where they had never lived before, and lori got full custody. She was living there and working, i believe as a geologist at the time. Jim pleaded guilty for his espionage and was sentenced in early 97 in alexandria, virginia, just down the pike here which has earned the reputation, particularly in espionage cases, of moving things very quickly. It is known at the rocket docket. As is the custom, the judge asked jim if there were anything he might like to say at his sentencing. And in my opinion Jim Nicholson has never missed an opportunity ever to talk about himself. Reading again from the book, when it was jims turn to speak he stood somberly. Those in the front row of the gallery could see he wore dress shoes with no socks. He told the judge he had lost everything that was dear and important to him except his faith in god and his endless love for his chirp. His actions, he acknowledged, had blotted out all the good hippings he had done for himself and his colleagues. I wont ask for the forgiveness of my colleagues and countrymen, for i know they cannot give it, he said is. I will ask for the forgiveness from my family and children, because i know they will. I reasoned i was doing this for my chirp to make up for putting my countrys needs above my familys needs. I am, in so many ways so very sorry. Government lawyers and the federal agents who took part in the investigation were flabbergasted by jims i did it for the kids speech. Some would recall his words years later as the most destructive guilt trip anyone had ever laid on his children. The judge sentenced jim to the full 23 years 7 months with time off for good behavior, jim could be out by the time he reached retirement age. The judge recommended that the u. S. Bureau of prisons jims new keeper let him serve his time in oregon. Perhaps there in the bosom of his family, jim could make good on the declaration he made to a Court Officer before his sentencing. I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to offer some positive example to my children before i die. So nathan b answered the door that day two fbi agents, leshs his fathers learns his fathers been arrested for espionage. So now we fast forward 12 years. Jims been allowed to serve his time in sheridan. This allows him to spend weekends visiting with his participants nick and betty nicholson, who both worked in the intelligence field. And most importantly his kids who troop out to prison every other saturday to see him. Nathan joined the army after 9 11 defying his dads instructions to go through rotc and get in that way and become an officer before he joins the army. Nathan was absolutely incented by what insented by what had been incensed by what had been done to our country, and wanted to match his fathers accomplishments as an army ranger. But a parachuting accident and he did join and go off and go through training, and he was, unfortunately, injured in 2004 during a Training Mission at fort bragg and this ultimately ended his career. He came back to oregon. He was deeply depressed and suicidal, theres a very touching scene in there about his near suicide. And so once he reaches oregon, his dad seizes on his vulnerabilities just like any good Intelligence Officer might do. From the visiting room there at sheridan which is sort of ally knoll yumfloored shithole frankly. It took me five years to talk my way in there and it required the help of the chief district judge in oregon to get it done. They werent going to let me in because they were embarrassed about jims sort of putting one into the net. Is so from the prison visiting room jim confides in nathan and nathan alone his plan to get them all money. His brother, his older brother and his sister were both under just a mountain of college debt. Nathan also was under college debt and had some other issues, although he was getting some money from the Veterans Affairs administration. And so it was, it was bad. At any rate, jim tells them, look this plan, its a little risky. Its even dangerous. But its not illegal. And so over the next few months, jim puts nathan through basic training in espionage, in spycraft. During their prison visits telling him how to spot anyone who might be tailing him. With guards looking on and surveillance monitors watching jim, he secretly palms notes into nathans pocket. Then 12 years after he betrayed his country for the russians, he sent them his youngest son. Ultimately, his youngest son was his last asset which actually was going to be the title of book but apparently it wasnt good for sel. Nathans a whole lot like his dad. They really like danger, that sort of rush of danger and getting through stuff and getting out of tough situations and they both have a great sense of humor. Both are deeply religious christians. I think nathans a very devout christian. But in one day in one way theyre mirror opposite. I think jim wakes every day of his life thinking about jim. Nathan is utterly without gilens a very different guile, he puts everyone else first each when it harms him and even if that meant carrying messages to russian spies for his dad can something he would do for the next two years. He made two trips to San Francisco where he was given 5,000 and told it was too dangerous to continue meeting in San Francisco. So the russians sent him to mexico city. Ultimately, they passed questions to nathan to pose to his dad during his prison visits. And for the next two years he meets this retired russian spy who was called out of retirement to Service Young nathan as his fathers agent. And he flies home with bags full of 100 bills. Nathan will meet this spy twice at the Russian Embassy in mexico city, another time in lima, peru, and the russian has always introduced himself only as george and thats how nathan to this day refers to him. He does not refer to him by his real name. He once handled internal security right here in d. C. His job is to identify the russian spy secretly working for u. S. Intelligence agencies whose betrayals led to the arrest of Jim Nicholson. The russians are tasking nathan with asking his dad these hard questions about where he traveled, where he thought he might have fallen under suspicion so that they can help them identify the person in their a own ranks who gave nathans dad up. Nathan understands none of this. He has no idea what hes gotten himself into. Jim has intentionally kept him in the dark at every step telling him yeah, why dont you go to San Francisco. You can pose as an architecture student. You know if they ask if anybody should ask, you know, like if the fbi should ask but he doesnt say the consulate there, the russian consulate in San Francisco has been a den of spies for generations and is constantly under the watch by many many fbi agents. In fact, i went there and did a bunch of research a couple of times and went in and talked to a spy briefly in the book. It wasnt a spy, he was a diplomatic officer he said. And sergei. Great sunglasses. But, you know, i went and told, i told an fbi friend of mine, i said, hey, you know, i went down there, i went in the consulate i parked there, and i was kind of Walking Around shooting pictures and things like that. He said, you know, you might want to call your contact in portland and let him know what you did because theres probably some poor shmuck trying to figure out who this guy was in this rental car and why he was there handing a copy of his newspaper series about the spys son [laughter] a to this guy named sergei whos, again probably a russian spy. So at christmas time 2008 nathan flies to cyprus in the eastern end of the mediterranean to meet george. Unbeknownst to him the fbi followed him to cyprus. And im just going to read a very short section from chapter one here. Jumping back and forth. You had to give it to the russian. He summoned nathan ten time zones from home to a city known for its old world cuisine just to rendezvous in front of a tgi fridays. Nathan stood on a wide sidewalk as darkness fell over a shopping district choked with greek nightclubs and restaurants. Towering street lamps bathed him in light as he fidgeted in front of the texasbased chain restaurants familiar red and white awnings. He looked like any other hayseed american tourist, another culturallist yank who had stumbled into the exotic crossroads of europe and the middle east only to forgo the local fare and feast on jack daniels pork chops, new york cheesecake and 6 budweisers. He wore jeanses, sneakers and a camelcolored baseball cap. The russian had presented him with hat at last meeting instructing nathan to wear it outside the restaurant while grasping his backpack in his right hand. He completed the tourist getup with a map which he snatched from the hiltons front desk on his way out. When nathan left for his appointment, he had launched himself down the avenue toward the tgi fridays. He hiked downside streets to avoid being tailed and he doubled back a few times pausing at shop windows to check their reflections making sure he wasnt being followed. Nathans walk took such a circuitous route that he blundered off course and got lost. But being the earnest sort, he had left the hilton so early that he still arrived an hour early for his meeting with the russian. He stood on that wide sidewalk trying to look casual as the sun went down on a cool evening two weeks before christmas. The moon, almost full, shone brightly in the clear island sky. Jim had told his son that his meetings with the russian were potentially dangerous risky, he had said but not illegal. But nathan now suspected that couldnt possibly be true. The ed he knew would show he had smuggled his dads notes out of the prison and carried them to firstnameonly russians. They had paid for the information with bag fulls of 100 bills. Both his dad and the russian had repeatedly cautioned him the keep an eye out for surveillance, and the old man had taught him basic spy skills to avoid detection. It was abun about thely clear to theyre than that he and his dad were no longer just father and son, but coconspirators tempting fate each time he met the russian. At precisely 7 p. M. , nathan caught a glimpse of a short grayhaired man walking toward the restaurant. He forced himself to look away until he heard the russians english, words that came almost in a whisper. Do you know the way to the Federal Post Office . Nathan turned and looked at him as if they had never met. His handler stood at 56 a couple of inches shorter than he with white hair, dark gray eyes and a thick neck. Nathan was supposed to spoke his end of the dialogue. But it felt pointless to him. They had now met on three continents, spent hours talking in soundproof rooms. They were, by anyones measure acquainted. But nathan wouldnt disappoint him. It should be around here somewhere, he said, lifting the prop in his hand, the map. Let me show you the way. Before nathan could finish the line, the russian was tugging at his sleeve to move him along. They strode in silence toward the sprawling Computer Store and turned left down a poorlylit side street where a dark european sedan hugged the curb. The russian leaped close. Leaned close. Dont say anything in the car, he said. The russian opened one of the sedans rear doors and instructed nathan to curl himself into the well behind the front seat. Nathan felt the car lurch into gear and pull away. Nathan is given 12,000, and in one of the weirdest parts of this whole thing, he enters a few moments of reverse haggling. The russian wants to give him 12,000 actually wants to give him 13 or 14,000, and nathan says, no, no, thats too much. Its illegal to bring more than 10,000 in cash back into the united states, and if you get caught doing that, its big trouble. He had run into this when he was stopped at the airport in houston earlier coming back from lima. He was already under investigation by the fbi at that point, and they had him stopped by a customs guy. Ultimately, he agrees to take 12,000, but he has to spend some of it so he wires some money to his dads fiancee, his former interpreter from thailand, and he eats a whole bunch of pizza hut pizza. Nathan had been a pizza hut delivery guy off and on and made very good money, and he liked to sample the different pies around the world. He tried them on all of his trips, actually, mexico city and in lima, he was trying the piece piece pizza hut. Anyway, hes bringing this money back probably just under 10,000 into the country and im going the read one last section and call it a night here. Nathan reached portland International Airport the first hour of monday, december 15, and slogged to his chevy. He drove south toward eugene in a rare snow shower which threw a brilliant white blanket over the valley. He reached his apartment at 3 30 a. M. And stashed 9500 cash in his night stand. Nathan climbed into his rack knowing his dad would be pleased with the latest payment and with another meeting set for slovakia the following year. Then he collapsed in the loopy delirium known only to those who have flown halfway around the world in coach. At precisely 1 20 p. M. , a loud pounding woke him. He lay in bed for a few seconds, his eyes adjusting to the light. Someone was knocking so hard it reminded him of his sergeants back in the army. Nathan lurched out of bed and lumbered barefoot across the carpet toward the door. The pounding persisted. He pushed an eye against the peephole and saw the fish eye forms of two middleaged white guys standing on his stoop. They were serious looking men in jeans and heavy winter coats. One of them chewed gum. Feds, he thought. Had to be. Nathan stood frozen behind the door. For an instant he thought maybe they would just walk away, hoped they would. The gumchewing man pulled out a phone and began to dial. Nathan turned from the peephole and sprinted on tiptoes toward his bedroom. He was closing in on his flip phone when suddenly it rang. He pounced on silence button before it could ring twice then he waited, praying for the men to to go away. Moments later the pounding resumed. The hell with it, nathan thought, moving for the door. Its now or never. He exhaled and reached for the doorknob. And you know what . Im not going to read any more because i want you to read the damn book. Thank you so much for having me in. [laughter] [applause] bryan you stay there. So bryan will be signing books after the program. In the meantime, any of you have questions for bryan, we have time. Yes, right here. Thank you. Most enjoyable. Well, thank you. Eric oneill is an exfbi agent who actually took down Robert Hanson. And he has a said that hanson is in a supermax in solitary. Why is it, do you think that Jim Nicholson had all these benefits of seeing his family, his parents, you know . If he had been put in solitary which is akin to driving someone insane actually his son would never have been turned. Indeed thats true. And i dont know i dont have a good explanation for why he ended up with a much less, lower sentence than has hanson, although hanson did quite a lot more, and i think peter knows that case a lot better than i do. Hanson gave away a lot more secrets that really harmed u. S. Security in a way that nicholsons did not. I will tell you there is some, perhaps some justice for you. Jim nicholson is in the same same prison with Robert Hanson today, and it would be very interesting for you to read the book and notice that there is a very small can connection between small connection between both of their cases which i dont want to give away just yet. Okay. Yeah, i think hanson originally was given life without parole and sent directly to the supermax whereas nicholson as you heard got 23 years. Initially. And then after he recruited his son, then he got the other sentence piled on. Other questions for bryan deppson . Yes. All the way over there. Hold for the mic, please. Okay. Has an evaluation ever been done of the damage that was done by nicholson and his son . Yes. There was certainly he went through, i want to say it was months or at least a month of debriefings with the cia and fbi after his initial arrest. You will see that nathan ultimately made some decisions to work with the government, and he, he told them everything. Im giving away a little bit of the book but youll see why he did it, and thats kind of the key thing and that tension between father and son is what, for me really makes this story so dramatic and such an intriguing father and son story as well as an espionage story. Did that answer your question, i hope . Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Other questions . Yes, right here. Hold for the mic. Thank you. Nicholson strikes me as classic sociopath, you know . The narcissism and the selfjustification and all that stuff. Was there did you ever get any did anybody ever do a psychological profile of him and have you seen that, and if so, what did it say . How did it describe him . It would be classified, and i wouldnt see is it. And by the way ive just got to introduce him thats Steven Kelley my very best friend on the planet. You should applause him, because applaud him because he just has his first book out. Language of the dead can hes a great novelist you going to be signing after the program . [laughter] so were sure. Steve and i competed, were both 57, i can say that with some impunity, i think. We competed our entire lives at everything including gin rummy games on mountaintops, running and he beat me into print by three weeks. [laughter] okay. Yeah, let me answer the question though. [inaudible] at the end of the book, the guy who was the psychiatrist the psychiatric expert in the hanson case for the defense, who i think has been here yeah, he has spoken here, yes. Wonderful man, very bright. He and another cia a former cia a officer mark sageman, dr. Mark sageman who you may also know yes. Brilliant forensic psychiatrist. I had lunch with both of them actually, i had lunch with sageman, and i talked several times to the other. And both of them explained that jim was, and youll see this at the end of the book, an extreme narcissist but not a psychopath. But there are some really interesting overlaps. The kinds of skills that peter used in his many years in the agency are the kind of skills like charm, the ability to talk people out of things you need from them my wife is here, so i wish [laughter] well, tell us what the skills you tell them what the skills are. No, no. Well i think he ably demonstrated them. He was a person filled with charm. I think the first part of his career he was quite he was, as they say a blue flamer. He was on his way up. I think he was a gs15 by the time he went to kuala lumpur. Thats exactly right. So some of those skills put anymore the really extreme narcissism, but the truth is theres ample evidence that hanson and nicholson both loved their kids and their kids loved them. And for that reason, as it was put to me nathan tragically really did become his dads last asset and his last agent. Yeah. Okay. Just trying to see through the light. Any last questions . All right. One more way back there laura. Thank you. Both of them familyrelated questions. How did can his parents fare during all this . There was mention they were alive. And what about his other two children . Well, i had a total of one hour with jims oldest son jeremy, on the phone. And then he declined to participate any further. What made his case strange, i dont know if i mentioned this or not, during the middle of it the fbi discovered that jeremy had gone to russia and married and brought a woman back and married her. And, you know, it was one of those sort of Online Dating sort of things, and he met her and brought her back. No connection to espionage. Theres no hint at all that she was other than somebody who just wanted to marry him. Hes in is the service hes in the service hes in the air force. Star never spoke to me. I met her i dont want to tell her the occasion i met her at but itll give the book away. But she she never did participate with me. But i will tell you that jims parents to this day believe that theres something not quite right about the u. S. Governments prosecution of their son. They do believe that he was set up. And i think for the longest time nathan did too. And even though his father had is the him straight and said, no, i did what they said. Both of them actually, marvin had worked on the sr71 blackbird which is a spy plane. I think the cia ran that one right . Yes. And his wife, betty jims mother, had been a codebreaker in the army. And to this day they stick by him. And while i think theyre a bit nervous about this book, they entrusted me with their story and i spent many hours on their couch in eugene, oregon. Did that sort of answer yes, thank you. Very good. Well, bryan denson, thank you very much for a very fascinating story. [applause] and thank you all for coming. Good to see you, have a good evening. And as i said, bryan will be signing books in the back. I have to get him back there. Yeah. [laughter] to sign books okay. [inaudible conversations] booktv is on twitter and facebook, and we want to hear from you. Tweet us, twirl. Com twitter. Com booktv, or post a comment on our facebook page, facebook. Com booktv. President ial candidates often release books to introduce themselves to voters and promote their views on issues. Heres a look at some books written by declared candidates for president. In his book immigration wars, former Florida Governor jeb bush argues for new immigration policies. Neurosurgeon ben carson calls for greater individual responsibility in one nation. In against the tiled, former Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee recounts his time serving as a republican in the senate. And Hillary Clinton looks back on her time serving in the Obama Administration in hard choices. In a time for truth, texas senator ted cruz recounts his journey in a cuban immigrants son to the u. S. Senate. Carly fiorina, former ceo of hewlettpackards book is rosing to the challenge where she shares lessons shes learned from her difficulties and triumphs. South carolina senator Lindsey Graham released an ebook on his web site. He details his childhood and career in the air force. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee gives his take on politics and culture in god guns, grits and gravy. Leadership and crisis is louisiana governors Bobby Jindals book. George pataki is also running for president. In 1998 the former new york governor released pataki where he looks back on his path to the governorship. Rand paul calls for Smaller Government and more bipartisanship in his latest book taking a stand. Former Texas Governor rick perry writes fed up where he explains that government has become too intrusive and must get out of the way. Florida senator marco rubio outlines his plans to restore Economic Opportunity in american dreams. Independent senator vermont senator Bernie Sanders is a candidate for the democratic nomination for president. His book the speech is a printing of his eighthourlong filibuster against tax cuts. In blue collar conservatives, Rick Santorum argues the Republican Party must focus on the working class in order to retake the white house. Businessman donald trump has written several books. In time to get tough, he criticizes the Obama Administration and outlines his vision to restore american prosperity. Others who may announce their candidacies for president include Vice President joe biden. In promises to keep, he looks back on his career in politics and explains his guiding principles. More potential president ial candidates with books include Ohio Governor john kasich. In stand for something, he calls for a return to what he sees as traditional american values. And Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker argues republicans must offer Bold Solutions to fix the country and have the courage to implement them in unintimidated. And finally,