Transcripts For CSPAN2 Brian Karem Free The Press 20220809

First to post a question at any point during the discussion click on the q a icon at the bottom of the screen. In the chat, youll find a link for purchasing copies of free the press. Brians career has range across print and online media and stretches back 40 years. He currently serves as senior White House Correspondent for playboy and hosts the podcast just asked the question which. Features conversations about politics , Current Events and pop culture. During the Trump Presidency brian himself became the story on an occasion or two in confrontational exchanges with administration officials, among them Sarah Huckabee sanders and white house aide sebastian gorka. The white house tried to suspend brians press pass before a judge blocked the move and later chided the white house are havingro violated brians constitutional due process rights. In three the press brian combines the history of changing news media with tales of his own experience in the business. He describes the n disappearance of many news organizations , the spread of bias and the tensions between the government and the fourth estate. He also offers at the end some ideas for reviving vibrant and free press in this country. Publishers weekly called free the press a trenchant study of what ails the american press. Enlivened by brians vivid memories of the good old days. [laughter] i want to hear about those jokes all day. In conversation with brian will be zachary who has the same last name because hes brians son. And hes a writer director and executive producer of the same podcast ryan hosts, just ask the question. Zachary also is a writer of political satire and hasbeen working on a Science Fiction short film currentlyin postproduction. So brianand zachary , the screen is yours. I appreciate it and zach, thank you for doing this. Im open. Ill start out. Brad, ill talk a bit about the good old days because im old. But the story Everyone Wants to know is who was the first president you met and for me it wasreagan. As the story goes, i was upstairs in the upper press, a callow youth of 25 and i was standing up here and unusually back in those days you would bang on the door. At least helen thomas did. And Sam Donaldson who was kind enough to write the intro for this book. And bang on the door and say larry, talk to us. One day i was gup there just seeing how things were going and secret service came through and said the president was going to come through and we all had to leave so we all turned to leave whoever was there that day and i turned to leave and tristan fell on the floor. Ive always been graceful and as i was there on the ground i looked up buand who was standing over me fbut the president of the United States and Ronald Reagan said young fellow, you dont have to bow to me so that was my introduction to dc president ial politics. The book talks about how unfortunately the last 40 years the federal government state and local governments have all destroyed the free press and in doing so it through dismantling the a lot of the guardrails that were in place to make sure we were fair and free and if you talk to whether its someone on the left or someone in the middle everybody says theres nothing wrong with the press. They just dont know what it is. They think they know twhat it is but they dont and this is a book that takes a good hard look at what is actually wrong with the press in the United States. So to that point, i wanted to ask you youve identified the problem. And then i kind of take a step forward. I want to find out how long and how far away are we from fixing things like, is there specific legislation that needs to bepassed like at a local state or federal level. Illstart there. I think on the federal level we need to go back to the fairness doctrine and reintroduce the fairness dcdoctrine and make it applicable across the internet and across broadcast and radio. There are those who say it cant be done but they also said they couldnt do it with television and we managed to do it. And at the state and local level we need to make sure that Public Notice ads are protected. Those are , we had been local newspapers have almost ceased to exist. There is vast news deserts in the United States and we need to cure that by supporting local and Community Newspapers. But those Public Notice ads are a big part of the budget for many small newspapers. They also let people know whats going on in their communities. I wanted to clarify for people listening if theyre not aware of the fairness doctrine and what itentails. Its inherent in me but i want to know if you could. The fairness doctrine as written in 1949 and introduced during the Truman Administration made it possible for, and made it actually necessary that if you were approaching the subject of controversy that you had to provide fair, both sides of the story. Re you had to make sure if you said athat war was inevitable then you also have to say all right, someone on the other side would say hey. And when you took away the fairness doctrine, what happens when the Reagan Administration got rid of the fairness doctrine it created vast news silos where you would only turn to where you wanted to go for the news that youwanted. Your information bubble. So newscasts stopped being information but became entertainment. We ceased telling people what they need to know and started telling them what they wanted to hear. Thats why i say that Good Journalism and capitalism are incompatible though they are also tethered together. Thats the damage of it. Okay. To that point then before the fairness doctrine dwas repealed, i want to get a little bit more specific. With the tv stations, radio stations and newspapers, was for tv and radio. Newspapers had other problems. Newspapers have e long had far greater problems and newspapers have had the problem of television and radio and the internet taking away their audience. Once radio opened up, that shortened the news cycle. Newspapers used to be great places to go for information and depth of information. As you know i collect old newspapers and one of the greatest copies of an original copy of the newspaper that i have is from 1865 and its Abraham Lincolns new York Observer and the news account of Abraham Lincoln assassination. Theres a lot of history books that ive read and the thing about newspapers that are and still great is you cant hack a newspaper. Its the same today as it was in 1865 when it was printed. What were doing now is h ephemeral. It can be changed, it can be erased but one of the things that made the newspapers so great and by the way one of the things that lets christianityspread was that the bible was printed. It was the greatest thing ever printed for hundreds of years. The first thing they invented was a top print seller. Everyone read the same source material and thats what newspapers were. The same source material and it was, it helps the United States become a little bit more civilized and at the beginning when our congress got together for one of its first things, first meetings one of the first things they did in congress was to subsidize newspapers and allow them to transplant newspapers cheaply through the us mail that help educate and helped us become an informed, educated electorate. But the fairness doctrine tried to codify on television some of the very principles and precepts that had gone he into newspaper that were thought of for a long time and it worked iand there was never really any serious repercussions for those that didnt do it because most people didnt do it and because they did do it everything everybody hopped on the bandwagon and said weve got to do that. And we dont do that anymore. Both sides is a fine edge to walk. Im going to tell you, im not going to report that when i report about men going into space im not going to have somebody heading by my side telling you the flat Earth Society version of it. Im not going to have people w saying the holocaust didnt happen and not going to listen people telling me s january 6 was a walk in the park. I was there, that wasan insurrection and it was dangerous. I wont repeat the lies but for reasonable people and reasonable facts when facts are vetted reasonable opinions can differ and we need to air those. If you dont mind i want to take a point back. Just to talk about you a little bit more because i want to know why you feel your uniquely suited to understanding the problems facing the American Media and you dont obviously need to go over but i need to know why. Because my oldest son told me i was. That is a strong argument. You know this and i dont mind sharing it withyou. Ive been a reporter, i started in high school as a reporter working for the jefferson reporter in kentucky parttime. I went to college at the university of missouri and was as my fatherinlaw said in mizzurah. My first job after leaving college and getting married and having the oldest son sitting here with me. We were in texas and ive traveled quite a bit. And done quite a bit. I think one of the unique things, what you dont get to see from reporters is because of the constriction in our news business, there are fewer reporters today. Theres twice the number of people in on the planet as the day i was born, half the number ofreporters. And in laredo o texas, there was 100,000 people. There were two daily newspapers in english and i think one or two in spanish. There were three or four television stations that did news. Several radio stations. And i went back k fthere last year and the year before for the border crisis and there was 300,000 people so theres three times the number of people as when i was living there and theres one newspaper, one television station. I know youre still doing the weather but thats whats happened to journalism so theres few of us left who know what it was like back in the good old days and i felt like it was my responsibility to pass on to others what journalism really was. What i grew up believing it to be and what we can make it once again. Thats the short story. To that point, thank you. Its obvious that theres a lack of Institutional Knowledge fois bad for the news media but why does it specifically matter that somebody has 30or 40 years of experience. H why does it matter more than hiring someone directly. You need to know people. You need to spend your time. I hope im still learning after all the time i spent doing this but i think you need to know your way around council meeting, a pta meeting. You need to Cover High School sports. I thinkyou need to cover , you need to make yourself aware of whats happening in the City Managers Office or county clerks office. Pl know how to talk to people. A lot of people and its happened several times when ive walked into the white house and had people come up to me and go i dont know what im doing here. I was dropped into thisand its their first job out of college. And they really need to have more iexperience. Youre going to be taken advantage of. The elitism that they talk about in journalism exists and its because we hire people who are straight outof college. Maybe they got their masters degree but theynever once had to cover a High School Sporting event, never once had to go and cover a pta meeting, neveronce had to do those things. You dont have the experience. And how to get information from a variety of people. Its what binds us together, one of the great things about the Community Newspaper is with all thats when all thats left is national news, its divisive by its very nature. Democrats, republicans. People dont even know what socialism is or capitalism is. They hear these e buzzwords and slogans and that was one of the things we were warned about back in the 50s. During the mccarthy era. Thats also inthe book , its the 1958 conference. The speaker there is hotalking about how if we dont pass this now that were going to be overtaken by a slogan as him and propaganda and we have been. Its the fact that you and i may disagree about an issue at the national level, fine but every one of us wants our streets paved wants to make sure the streetlights work. Why cant we get a local Grocery Store . Why cant we get clean water . Most of the Major National stories all were given birth in a Community News room. And thats why youve got to havethat Community Journalism. Montgomery county where i live theres more than 1 million people. When i first moved here there was a daily newspaper the montgomery journal. There were two weekly newspapers or three aand the Washington Post covered at it as well as reradio and television. Today theres none of that. Thepost has scaled back its coverage. When he bought the Washington Post bezos killed the weekly newspaper they ran so thats the problem. If you dont have reporters on the ground, tits that ability to gather news, that ability to be tied into your community. We are called the enemy of the people that we are not , we all are the people. There just arent enough of us doing the job. Also when you have boardrooms that are controlling things and itboardrooms are usually on these large venture capitalists that only two or three other newspapers, that was never supposed to happen. There was legislation introduced in the 80s to limit the ownership and itwas still. The stronger newspapers will survive and its better for the First Amendment andthats not true. You need more voices. One of the most Unsung Heroes of mine in journalism said there needs to be real diversity of ownership if were going to have diapers the of ideas and we dont have that. Thats what experience will teach you but more than anything else i think it just teaches you whats going onin the world. I didnt know when i was 25 years old what i was doing and i told many reporters that worked for me i said this is what i think. And i go i dont care what you think, what do you know . I dont barely care what i think. I want to know what you know and teaching people how to that fax, thats the important thing. Journalism is printing stuff that isnt propaganda and isnt pr so youre going to anger someone with the facts. Even in high school sports. To that point, in the book you quote a wise man. You say ijournalism is about bringing up information you want buried otherwise its nothing more thanpropaganda. So yes, that point where, how do you see it being fixed in the future . Obviously you need cooperation between the government and private corporations that accomplished eglegislation. Is that what youre eating for their . This is the most controversial aspect of the book and its a thing that angers large boardrooms the pemost and that is that you need to break up a media monopoly. You have to create smaller more competitive companies. Atthe same time thats not the cure all. Reinstituting the links to which we drive, roger ailes helped destroythe United States and theres no other way tosay it. He last on to nixon and then reagan and fox news and created the crap that we have to deal with today. Theres no way you cannot deny that but theres more that needs to bedone. We need a National Shield also reporters. I went to jail four times, i walked out of jail my young son in my hand. Oh yeah, that was you u. Im walking out of jail after two weeks having to spend time here because i set a source confidential and there others that have done that and you shouldnt have to do that. You shouldnt use the espionage act to go after reporters as president s have done. You need aside from putting the rails back on and making sure the fairness doctrine and National Shield law, you need to start at the ground level and you need to ousupport through subsidies and tax breaks, you have to support Community Journalism. Thats where it all begins. If we dont support Community Journalism we are done. Its that simple. You dont understand that then god help us. The Founding Fathers understood that quite well. And those that you are not long for government. How many of the people who voted to impeach ronald impeach donaldru trump in the Republican Party are not running for reelection . Its hard to survive in a divisive environment and we need to make it less divisive. Community newspapers help bind communities together. You may think, think about it, how many times parents cut the pictures out of a Community Newspaper because their kid was in it . How many times have you gone and go gee, whats going on this weekend . Go to the newspaper and find out. How many times, theres a a gt part in this book when talking to a guy about community ads. The salesman used to go, and read these Public Notice as income okay this is us in the state so, this person got this job and thats how they would approach them and say im a cars salesman in your area or on doing this. Lets get together and talk. It was way of bringing our Community Together. Weve got to do that. When your community is together youre less likely to want to kill your neighbor or go after your neighbor or accuse them of being antiamerican if youve also shared, your kids are on the sameou teen or you Work Together to get a road page or all of the things that bring a Community Together are part of the Community Newspaper experience, and i ran one of those as you know i ran two of those for more than a dozen years, and those newspapers are vital to whats great and good about america and where sacrificing them and thats got to stop. So then you feel that the future of local news, and will also be printed, right . Everything is going online but you want the print paper because of, you know i want all that. The biggest problem today, we dont understand, and newspapers have learned this yet, Many Television stations are behind the times, all right look, to call yourself a journalist at the very least, you need a copy editor, someone whos going to say that spelled wrong, that doesnt make sense, lets go back and look is at a fact and verify facts. Otherwise youre just a blogger and theres no offense to them, those are up injured and they should be labeled as such. But newspapers and television stations, radio stations and those on the internet have not learned yet that the internet is a Great Unifying force, and we have divided ourselves becauseec of it, but the unification behind it, that could be behind the potential, is great. S is toa newspaper isnt just a newspaper. Its a radio station. Its a live stream. Its can go live now from you know, i can i can go live with this. I i and i have and so can a television reporter. So can a newspaper reporter and this paper reporter can go live from the scene of a fire with this and put it on their website. Of course. Yeah, the greatest advantage the greatest thing that newspapers bring to to the front and and is so needed is context. And depth and not just the stuff that goes on you know right now and i mean how many times when i was a kid, did you pick up you look at the scores and who scored this and who scored that and oh this person did that. Oh, by the way this had, you know get that anymore. You have to search for it and thats not you know that nobody wants to sit around and search for 30 minutes when if you knew that wow, the courier has it. Let me go to the courier because thats right. Everything is okay right one stop shop. If and thats the bottom line today. Your newspaper has to be your one stop shop for everything and if that if newspapers took that attitude and hired people instead of firing them and were willing to take a smaller percentage of profit versus a greater the theyre so shortsided, you know newspaper hedge fund owners are like maximum profit minimum time. It should be longterm profit sustainable profit over many years. To make newspapers viable so im going to come back to that actually in a few but what i want to do right now is talk a little bit about whats cool about the book is that its also not only is it, you know kind of describe prescribing kind of the ailments of our, you know forth the state right now and then also offering, you know, remedies and solutions, but it also is a how to on kind of how to journalism and so one of the cool things i you know throughout it is, you know, all of the anecdotes that kind of i feel like build a really good narrative and like kind of teach how how it is to do, you know be a journalist and one of the things that you talk about kind of want to ask you about was what is the purpose of being a burst or balloons, you know, and why does that make you a good reporter . And who said that that was uh, that was actually told me by Barry Bingham senior. I was in the story behind that is i was a big hl mencken fan and as anybody listening or watching, uh wonders who hl mencken is i recommend you read him because he was very cogent a very on point about the problems of journalism and politics a hundred years ago, and and he talked about chain store problems, you know, its the market approach to change store journalism thats ruining independent journalism. It used to be as he said that the rewards in this business came in and the freedom of expression and now they come chiefly and money and thats the simple fact of the matter is is theres nothing easier and on earth into full reporter and he has some wonderful and it goes about that but my personal anecdote about that was i was working at the courier journal and loyal times and i thought thats where i would spend my life. Because i had grown up reading that newspaper is always one of the top 10 newspapers in the country and its where i spent was inspired and inspired to be and i wasnt there long before it sold it and it to connect but one day i was sitting and i had a up a quote from hl menken above my desk and one day i walked in from trying to get an interview and the secretary for the section the neighborhood section. I was working in said brian senior wants to see you upstairs, and i i thought i was getting fired because senior never wanted to see anybody is very bingham senior was the patriarch of the family and new body. Not not the lowest guy on the totem pole, not me. I never you would see him. So i i went upstairs. I was trying to figure out what the hell i did wrong and i got upstairs in the secretary saddam mr. Chairman, you know, hell see you now and im going oh i said in beautiful office and it dawned on me slowly over a few minutes at you know as he asked about my family and new, you know members of my family because if they were judges and lawyers and i had done on me that maybe i wasnt gonna get fired and he said are you the one that posted that that notice above your your desk that quote from . Henry and i go henry who the hells henry . Yeah. Oh, man. Can i go . Yeah, thats how did you know that he goes nothing happens in my newspaper. I dont know about and then he he said hi and and talk to me for probably you know, it was less than an hour, but for me a young reporter it seemed like days as he talked about his friendship with hl menken and thats about knowing mankin. And then he said something that ill never forget. He said mankin was a wonderful burster of balloons at a time when balloons needed to be burst. And i i said well who does that now . And he looked at me goes now, i wonder and that was how i left it. And so i always took it as inspiration to to burst balloons and by that what he meant was to poke holes in the bs and politicians are full of it others are full of it, and its your job as a reporter to go after the facts one of my early mentors was was and is and one of my dear friends today is Sam Donaldson who i love dearly and sam was you know, he said look, he doesnt blame the president or their people for trying to put their best foot forward thats their job, right . But our job is to challenge them on the facts challenge their policy challenge their utterances. So the American Public gets to know the truth and then the public decides what to do with the facts. And so thats always always stuck with me and it is when you point out that someones full of it. It doesnt mean that youre happy that youre automatically friends of the guy that opposes them. I have as you know as much problem with politicians on either side or against them, you know, yeah, its just that today. Theres one side that adheres to science and one who wants to you know, drink clorox, and im not going to do that. So, you know, its its those things that that are you know in the neighborhood of burst. I will burst that easily in eagerly burst the balloon that only i can fix the problem that ingesting chlorops is good for you that that dog dewormer or horse dewormer will help you. I you know stay in your lane the scientists or this and then well point out the facts and thats you know, i i think you should clearly label your stuff as either fact, you know, this is news backs or opinion, and i dont think and one of the things i i have a problem with her young reporters going out. Yeah. I want to be a columnist. Many Years Experience. Do you have too and you got 10 or 12 come back to me . And then then maybe ill value your opinion, but you dont know enough to have one and thats what were unique good solid management, but when youre paying people it used to be that you had to have five Years Experience to go anywhere. Right, and now theyre hiring you straight out of school and then when after five years when you need a raise and youre making more money and you got a family they boot you out and hire another person whos cheap. And so thats thats you know. The first thing that was said to me when i walked into the Briefing Room in 1986 from sam was he said brian that first row in the brady Briefing Room seven seats. Theres about 200 years of experience there. Listen to every one of them and learn from them today. Theres less than half that amount of experience in there and thats we have lost Institutional Knowledge. So its harder to burst those balloons. So to that question then it kind of leads me, how do you i mean, you know, and its its something that we kind of touched on obviously a little bit earlier on in the conversation but um we havent like outright said it but like how do you then are you talk about it in the book . So i want to hear you kind of explain how you your idea for solving the new like news deserts and you know because theyre so its such a large problem that everything is just being amalgamated. You know, were only getting well if you break up the monopolies, thats the start and then like i said you get to have a youre gonna have to subsidize. Community journalists, theres just no other way to do it. Youre going to give them tax breaks. You gotta give them but you kind of get them low interest loans and thats why one of the things i also proposed in this book is that i think the president of the United States ottoman panel a Blue Ribbon Commission and get leaders in this industry to talk about how to revive and save the industry. I think we need to put all of our Heads Together if we can put together an infrastructure and pass an infrastructure bill. Look this affects everybody right or left. Everybody needs facts and news. So it i i know that there are enough people on both sides of the aisle that want this done for heavens sakes. I think it was jim jordan and and jamie raskin who cosponsored the last bill for a National Shield law to report different people. Youll never find but they agree on the need for free speech and supporting it and those we need to get these people together and get legislation passed and and get you know bailouts and if we can bail out the large snls we can bail out, you know small newspapers and i think that should be our priority. And i know now were getting close to the time where we got a field some other questions, right . Yeah, so that well, thats what im gonna do here actually was gonna transition over and and ask you some of these audience questions what well go for it, whatever you got. All right. Yeah. So this comes from an anonymous its indeed. Okay ask. That the only way home wherever we go. What would be your first step in changing the relationship between the people and the press, how can we get the people to trust the press again . Well, you got to get a you got to get an independent press its that simple and look your reputation is build every day on on making sure that what youre reporting is factual and people are going to make mistakes. I youre not fake media. Youre just a human being. You know when the titanic was first reported, ive got four different newspaper front pages down stairs in my house. Lets say you know everyone saved 200 people died 300 people that went to the fourth one, which was a week later that came out with the right numbers. It wasnt fake media when false news. It was what the best news we had at the time that we printed it. We need to a understand that and be when we do make mistakes. Heres something that we dont have much of today and that is ombudsman. We need to make sure that when we make a mistake, we acknowledge that we made the mistake and we correct the mistake as quickly as possible if you cant do that youre in deep trouble. All right. Next question. Im ready good question and a good answer mr. Guest. All right, so actually lets start the top here because its a little different but what this comes from audience member patricia and she asks, what do you consider the best question youve ever asked. Are you a free saturday night when i asked your mother out for a date, but ill approve that answer because it led directly to me. So yeah professionally, i think the best question i i i dont know. Thats a good thats a thats actually a great question. I think the question i asked that had the most. Impact was the one i asked september 23rd of donald trump and before the election and said win loser draw we accept a peaceful transfer of power. And i think that showed us right then the insurrection was as eminent and i think thats the most impactful question of asked of him. Thats absolutely so moving on them. Keep on going here. Whats your current . This comes from anonymous attendee . So this is a whats your current impression of how the press interaction of the government are reporters more buttoned up and does that keep them from posing important and difficult to the leaders. My impression is the press interacts. With the government pretty poorly we need to challenge them and i think that comes because i dont think reporters are more buttoned up. I think theyre afraid of losing access more than anything else and i think that theyre younger and less experienced and the one thing always tell young reporters when when i have them working for me is you dont work for the government those people work for you. Hold them accountable put their feet to the fire truth to power. Ill back you a thousand percent. You never have to worry go after them if youre afraid that youre gonna get fired or lose access because youre doing your your job. Thats a problem. Okay, absolutely. All right. Lets keep on going here anonymous attendee again, how have you adapted to the digitization of news media . How does it help or hurt journalists . I think i covered that pretty much i we yeah, we have to adapt and understand that newspapers print and television and radio and internet are all now pretty much the same. I mean, theres components of newspapers, you know on all your television websites. You just need better copy editors more thats more copy editors if we need anything else in the world. We need copy editors. Okay, all that brad see the next one is from brennan. Okay, you want me to that one . All right. So yeah to follow up on the question earlier after everything youve been through especially the last few years. Do you have an optimistic view of the future . And if so, what does that look like . I do have an optimistic view of the future as long as im breathing. I have noticing view of the future and i i think that what it looks like. Is breaking up medium monopolies supporting a Community Journalism and making sure that the rails are put back in place that we run in the right direction. And absolutely and is that that leads me to a quick question . Do you see that at like in the ethos in like in the White House Press room like as far as do they do the reporters there see themselves as part of the guardrails for the government or is that not so i i think we weve got to get better at framing the argument and thats one of the reasons why you need experience people in the white house who know what the issues are who have covered the issues and one of the things you know, Walter Cronkite was great because he had experiences a beat reporter and covered World War Two so when he went to vietnam and reported that he didnt think that we could win and lbj said ive lost Middle America if ive lost Walter Cronkite people respected him because he had he was he never made himself the story although he came out and gave an opinion and an opinions arent unheard of in news. Theres nothing wrong with them. You need to respect the person whos doing it and Walter Cronkite had the respect because people knew he had the gravitas. Thats the difference. We need the gravitas. We need to our institution respect that a little bit more. All right. So good moving on here. This is more of a mcafee. But what and Pamela Mcafee i think right . Is that the question were getting different ones. Which one are you seeing . How can you bring the fairness doctor back . There you go. Yeah. Yeah fairness doctor back. Without the threat of out. Is that where youre talking to fairness doctor and back without the threat of losing your fcc license. You have to lose you. You need to threaten them to lose their sec license quick answer there. There has to be there has to be a consequences for for that. You okay . All right. So heres one from an anonymous attendee. And what ways does the government limit press access . Oh, well, thats quite easy. Theres a number of ways in which they put limit access personally limit access to information but not filling out for you. You fill out freedom of information requests, and they dont give you the information. That happens at federal level the state and local level. They make you they charge you they make it cost prohibitive. Oh you want copies of that report . Well, okay. Its gonna be a dollar a page 10 cost dollar page. Yeah, it does because we got to have somebody do the job of making the copy so, you know, you want 10 copies. Yeah and small newspapers cant afford that. Mmm information needs to be made available. And by the way today just put it on an email and send it. You know, heres put it on this on my portable stick, you know my thumb drive that that needs to to take a place and then the other ways they restrict access is oh theres that guy that did the bad story on us. Hes not going on air force one. Oh, theres the guy who im not gonna answer that question because that guys gonna be you know, tough. Im gonna call on, you know, billy bob over here whos gonna ask me that the easy question that i know and i like now look in the press briefing when there are times when everyone every press agent every press secretary is gone to the easy question that they know is going to be asked so they can get a breath in between the tough questions that they are theyre going to be asked got no problem with that, but you cant restrict access to the reporters that are gonna ask you the hard questions open it up. Dont close it down that benefits the republican by the way politicians that makes you a lot better and all the politicians who say well, theyre just gonna make fun of me. Were gonna make fun of you. Anyway, you might as well let the tough questions. Come at you. All right. So well go on to this one here. Do you have a personal line that you wont cross when it comes to decorma etiquette when conducting interviews . Well, yeah, of course, but i i first im never gonna lie to tell you. Im not a reporter. Im gonna be honest with you and say this is a reporter and i got to ask you a question. Ive seen people, you know wonder about that now. I have walked up to someone and ask them a question and they didnt know i was a reporter i said, oh wait. I want you to know im a reporter. Yeah, but at the same time i yeah, theres always ethical lines that you you dont cross. Im not gonna lie to you. Im not gonna you know dress up as a fireman, you know, theres that great. Yeah, but on the other hand guess what the government has dressed up as reporters during the Reagan Administration. They had people dressed pretend to be reporters and crossed a very ethical line that they should never cross the government does it we should not but i have no problem asking anyone any question at any point in time. Theres no such thing as a bad question. There are only bad answers. Great. All right. Here we go. Now im satindi as a 20 something. I appreciate your explanation of meeting experience in journalism to do an adequate job. Whats your best piece of advice to those first starting out . The advice i always give every reporter ive ever hired. I want you to have a balanced education. I dont care if you have you know, a degree, honestly, i dont know you thats thats not whats important what i want you to be balanced fair and curious. I want you to to go out and be happy with what youre doing and always ask another question and always if you walk out of the newsroom thinking this story is a be prepared for it to change directions it would be be without that you cant thats me without that. You cannot be a good reporter. You have to be willing and able to to change your mind on at a moments notice. Secure um here we go, brian i skip one and well go back to janice, but i just saw jeff spivak is up there. Yeah, thats when i was gonna move on to yeah, thats the jeff one because hes a definite. Yes. Lets be back ryan. What does it say about our country that youve spent time in jail, but donald trump hasnt im sorry repeat was we we kind of crossed over ryan. What does it say about our country that youve spent time in jail, but donald trump has not it. I love you jeff. Thats it. And you know, i you that the i dont know what it says. I it its scary to me that that has happened. But i i think it tells us that. Money buys you free time i think its scary that that i but you know, he hasnt been charged with a crime and for the record. I was in charge with a crime. I was just i was a i had a confidential source i was held in contempt of court, but you know a little jail time would would probably make him a little more humble. Okay, so lets go here. Well, this is more of a statement this couple. What im trying to be political about it, yeah. So yeah, Janice Paulson says as an older person who is in contact with other seniors who say i dont listen to the news. Its too depressing and sad makes me upset ignorance is what they want to take advantage of the people and ill just power and we cant let them take it back from us more of a statement. But yeah. Your thoughts yeah. Knowledge is power and you have to be curious and want the knowledge one of the biggest problems is a lack of education in this country lack of decent reporting and guess what . We dont vote. I mean, you know, we consider a great voter turnout slightly over 50 which means even if a majority of the voters vote you in thats still a minority of the electorate you need to take democracy seriously, and you know it was well Thomas Jefferson whos said if he had you know, he fought tooth and nail and i cover that in the book too. He fought tooth and nail with a free press and and actually sued a bunch of times and tried to get people to stop printing things. But he said, you know given the choice between a no government or no, press he gladly take no government or you know words to that effect. I think you have to be involved it democracy doesnt work. Unless people are involved in educated. So come leads to actually this is a kind of follow not necessarily followed, but you know well just here question from only easily and she says do you have ideas about how the us can add guardrails to social media considering our First Amendment . This is where many get their their news yet. Algorithm spons etc. So destructive to society we have well i thats a good question. I think that thats covered in the book. I think pick up the book and read it. Yes. Theyre covered in the book it no definitely is. Yeah we can add guardrails to social media. Its it and its two really indepth to go into here, but i go through in the book numbers of ways in which it can be done. But the fairness doctrine can appeal can apply and and to them yes, well kind of like to your point earlier about in what you do address in the book is not excluding these social media like influencers and people that are you know doing this news rather bringing them into the fold and getting them to be more not necessarily, you know, but kind of so that way you can introduce a lot of the you know, like the actual education professionalism you were talking about thats what i try to do in this book. Im not disparaging bloggers. I just want to educate absolutely. Yeah and theyll get man go youre an idiot, you know about well, i cant help you there. Yeah. I i know my 40 years of experience pales and comparison to the three or four youve spent doing your blog or your podcast, but you know if you if there was more accountability and more people doing just some of the basics of journalism, i think better off and if that sounds elitist, i forgive me, its just 40 years of experience talking and and and im an old fart and i i am set my ways about what journalism is, and im not im not changing that but can we go to sleep rosemont . You lets go and say yeah. Mission all right. So from stephen rosenbaum, do you think that the january 6th commission will get the Justice Department to bring charges against any members of the former administration or congress. If so, when . Boy, he i love that question, too. I think that there will be charges. We already seen the oath keepers have you know the head of the other speakers got caught charged in the last couple of days . Congress is another matter. I hope so and i dont know but i think that if were going to have justice that though the january 6th commission is going to have to go after the seditious actions of members of congress. I think their traders i was there make no mistake about it. We came that close to losing our democracy. The fight is still on. They need to be held accountable most members of congress who responsible need to be expelled and if you dont agree, im sorry, but i was there and ill talk to someone else who was there and witnessed it for themselves, but i will not hear an opinion from someone who doesnt know what went on and you can accuse me of anything you want, but youre ignorance does not equal the knowledge that others have from firsthand experience. And if you think that makes you partisan, i would correct you and say no having the fact and knowing and seeing things firsthand is tantamount to making an informed decision which is why you need journalists. I think we need to expel those congressmen. I think we need to hold them all accountable. I would investigate indict and prosecute every Single Person that was involved. All right. We have like a few so im gonna try and got a couple of minutes. Yeah, what got a few few minutes left go on. Yeah. All right, so and some of these some of these have been like partially addressed. So, you know, im just gonna read through them and if theyre you know, kind of it opens up something thatd be great. So how do you get this comes from anonymous attendee . How do you get people to actually believe facts and not continue to see lives as if they are facts. Well, you got a whole journalists accountable for reporting facts and then once once the facts are reported, you have to hold people responsible for those facts. No the fact the facts are this and you know, im staying in my lane. Im not an Infectious Disease expert i trust those people who are Infectious Disease experts because they they went through a lot of education to get where they are dr. Fauci isnt the problem dr. Fauci is part of the solution and if you can accept that as a fact, i cant help you. Theres just a way of helping you, okay . All right, so im moving on did you spend a lot another anonymous attendee . Did you spend a lot of time reading through legislation . Would it be way simplify some of our legal rhetoric . Most americans not lawyers. We are the most lawyers arent writers though. They think they are not its the theres two. Oh, i do want to get to well, did you want to answer that one . I mean, yeah, i think thats the answer. I would it be worth it. Yes. I would love to simplify our legal rhetoric because most americans most lawyers arent writers and they think they are they love the sound of their own voice. No, absolutely so it should okay. Okay. Yeah. I i want to go to that one interview pet peeves. Can i answer that . Yeah share any interview yeah, my i have one big pet peeve when i interview someone. Dont in my ear and tell me its raining. I i grew up from a long line of my dad sold cars for a living. My uncles were attorneys. My grandfather was a lawyer and a judge. I know when i smell it. So you can try to me. You can try to bamboozle me all you want but brother just tell me the truth and things go a lot easier so my pet peeve is when people try to bs me and think im gonna fall for their bs and dont try to intimidate me either that doesnt work the last president found that out. Just be just deal with me honestly, and thats the best way to do it. Alrighty, so here where do you draw a line when it comes to canceling people and limiting access to media . Some people think trump is better off as a candidate now that hes banned from twitter. I dont believe in canceling anybody. I dont believe in reporting on trump because i dont care what he says right now when he makes news, i i wrote a column about this a few weeks ago after he is indicted or if he is indicted or if he declares himself a candidate then he becomes newsworthy again his his ramblings and his misogynistic speaking and his self glorification is just an idiot on the sidelines screaming and we got enough of them and i dont care so i i dont cancel. I dont think anybody should be canceled thats garbage, but i sure as hell dont need to report on donald trump right now because hes also garbage okay, interesting this sue kind of i like that one on the bottom too, right . Yeah. So from anonymous to me. Is there anything that you would have done differently over the course of your career . A little brush my teeth better. I dont know. I dont because i like where i am now, so if i done anything differently i wouldnt be where i am now. Um, i dont regret any action that ive taken as a reporter my mistakes i learned from him. We all make them and if youre happy where you are as a human being then there really is no need to visit. What would i done differently over the course of my career . I did what i thought i needed to do at the time. I did it. Sometimes i was right sometimes im wrong. Im a human being were all gonna be right all gonna be wrong. All right. So this one just came in from mary marlene and its says i see nonsense report on so many of my tv stations here in utah. How does a consumer of news that energy didnt finish the question . Yes. How do you discern what i think where shes going with that is yeah. How do you discern thats where you need to be a voracious consumer of news and facts and more than one source, and how do you complain to the networks . Thats easy. Call them up. Yeah, if its a network if its a local television station called the local television station, you know, people say you cant fight city hall sure you can you just got to do it. Its not easy. Um, i think we got some people one more. Maybe its more. Oh, we got two more. Lets try to get yeah, would you ever consider opening up your Community Paper again . I would love to at some point time consider doing it. I think its real important to have Community Newspapers. Theyre fun to theyre theyre actually fun to work on young reporters are my favorite reporters to work with because they all want to learn and theyre all you know if ive been very blessed with the people who have worked for me. Theyve all been really really good and ive enjoyed the experience immensely. All right, and then finally, can you talk about the importance of firsthand experience ie working and reporting on the border or covering city hall etc. Well, i think theres nothing more important. Then being out in the field and work the i learned a lot working on the border enough to know that the bs that passes today. Is that bs you need to get out and see for yourself these things. Thats one of the best ill end it this way the best part of being a reporter is getting to go out and see the world as it really is and reporting it to your fellow citizens and letting them know whats going on and theres a joy in seeing it with your own eyes traveling the world on somebody elses nickel is really good too. Since most reporters arent paid squad. So the idea of traveling the world and seeing whats going on is really really important and ive appreciated all of that. I think thats i think we allk right. I think i think we got brad back with us. Good job moderating, zach. I think youve done your dad proud, and brian, dont you love it when your kids ask you why it matters someone has 300 or 40 Years Experience . I got two for my kids every now and then, but as your book shows, brian, it certainly does help not only to know the history of journalism in this country but to have experienced it and you do provide a lot of perspective and some very constructive suggestions for reviving whats been lost unfortunately in the news media. Well, thanks, brad. I appreciate that. To anyone watching, thanks for tuning in. A reminder that in the chat calling you can find a link for purchasing copies of free the press. From all of us here at politics and prose, stay well and well read. Listening to programs on cspan through cspan reader get easier. Tell your Smart Speaker play cspan radio and listen to washington journal daily at 7 p. M. Eastern, important