Carolina on booktv located in the northern part of the state it was a regional be the Hunting Ground of the cherokee. Today as a population of 60,000 and is rich in textile heritage. With help of our Charter Communications partners over the next 90 minutes we will learn about the history of the city from local authors including the stories from upstate South Carolina, residents from home and abroad and the impact world war 2 had on the region. During the Great Depression the mills worked one week on, one big off, or one day on, one day off. In 1939, september 1939, when europe went to war, and our allies primarily england and france looks to washington d. C. For goods and materials they needed. They were nations at war and looked to us to help them out. Later we will visit there and University Library and look at selected items from their baptist religion and special collections and theyre about the impact it had on the area but first we will talk with author leola robinsonsimpson about the Civil Rights Movement and her role in the civil rights activist. Many of them complained about not knowing very much about their history in greenville, the history of black folks in green ville. They reported that in schools, all the chapters on black people was that it slaves. They slaves and they wanted to know where they could find information on jesse jackson, as they knew nothing about the early history in green ville. Looking at green ville green ville was a typical southern town, black and white basically. I recall the 40s and 50s when there were families, one or two with business on washington street. Two three families came into this area from one of the arab countries and they normally lived in the neighborhoods close to black neighborhoods because they too were discriminated against to some degree. That green phil was still at that time the kind of bigotry that most of us learned to live with and accept. Black people during that time knew their place and stayed in it. We as children coming up new our place, it was the way things were. It was the way things have always been. I can recall as a child hearing stories about willie earl, a young black man who was lynched in greens ville by a mob of white cabdrivers, he was taken out of jail, taken to dickens county, but the lynching took place in green ville. I can remember hearing everybody talk about what happened to willie earl and when we as children were afraid of anything, we would think about what happened to willie earl but as we grew older for some reason that fear left us because if you can be a young man or young snatched out without the benefit of a trial and brutally lynch, what is it to be afraid of. When the Civil Rights Movement broke out, many of our parents tried to put fear in us by telling us how dangerous it was and we realized that it was dangerous but that danger didnt bother us. What bothered us was the possibility that we, if we allowed things to remain the way they were, the we too one day could actually lose our lives. You know we were good sunday school gores, save your life, you will lose it, but if you are willing to lose your life for the sake of what is right, then you will save it. So we were spontaneous in the Civil Rights Movement. At first not many of the activities were covered by the locals television station which was channel 4. There were accounts of in the newspaper. Green ville as well as the other cities in South Carolina did not get the attention of birmingham, alabama or jackson mississippi, but we did enough to spark a movement within the state for it quickly spread as i said before to rock hill, green coat, and then it spread down to columbia which had Allen University and benedict college, even with participation of the State University into charleston, South Carolina, that Movement Began to come together, although it was spontaneous at first city evolved into an organized movement of young people and it was at that time that i was actually, believe it or not, at the age of 15 elected state president of youth counsel of naacp for the whole state of South Carolina and we began to coordinate our efforts at the state. We were given an attorney that worked with us, who later became a judge and he worked with us on cases that could be filed. If there were arrests he would handle it. Locally, we had Donald Stenson who was an attorney and willie smith, another local attorney who helped with those cases as the Movement Began to take form and evolve into a statewide movement that began to garner some attention. So when Jackie Robinson came to grain though he was denied access to the waiting room at the airport and out of that insult because here you have a baseball great the level of Jack Robinson being refused the use of the waiting room and out of that we had a march on the airport on january 1st, 1960. We organized that march on the airport so we marched from at that time the new church is still there but we all march and it was hundreds, hundreds that came from all over the state to march on the airport and after that very successful march the airport, that was when the sit ins began to occur. The peterson case became a landmark case in South Carolina when High School Students from green ville in addition to College Students who happened to be home at the time, on summer break or whatever, were arrested in green ville. There were about four of us who were arrested were underage, and did the age of 16 and we were consequently removed from city jail and taken to that Youth Detention Center and we were kept at a Youth Detention Center for a week, almost eight days. And as soon as i turned 69 was back on the trail again, but that particular case, our attorneys appeared before the United States Supreme Court and the arrest of those whose names were on the record were overturned. Our names are not included in the official record because we were under age at the time. The other case i was involved with in colombia we had that march on the state capital and students rallied from all over the state to protest the fact that the South Carolina house of representatives it that time had passed a bill that gave Police Officers of authority to arrest individuals for disturbing the peace even if it was on state property so immediately we decided that we would have a march on the capital and that is back in 1961. I think it was march, it could have been march of 1961 and hundreds, 193 students were arrested and these students were from all over the state. We came down from green ville. Our high school. But they were there from Allen University Community College in columbia, march college in sumter, South Carolina State University, in fact, congressman cliburn was arrested, was one of the ones arrested during that particular march on the state capital that they kept us in jail overnight. Next day when we were able to have visitors, our faithful youth advisers stayed all night just watching over us even though we were not religious at that time but we had some wonderful adult leaders and there is so much to be told, sometimes i am hesitant to even talk about the Civil Rights Movement because the history of the Civil Rights Movement, like most histories, it is a wild elusive bird that always flies away, you cant really put your finger on it, your hands of round it, because what i found his when you are a part of something as life changing as the Civil Rights Movement everybody wants to be a part of it, everybody wants bear little moment in history. If they marched on one march 4th, faith ran the Civil Rights Movement, as they were a leader in the Civil Rights Movement but there were what i can recall in green ville, who were part of the Civil Rights Movement, the beginning and end. Those that didnt leave and come back, college vacations and foes who made a substantial contribution and stand on the battlefield until as we used to put it victory was won. You are watching booktv on cspan2. This weekend we are visiting greenville, South Carolina to talk with local loggers and to the citys literary sites. Hour cable partner Charter Communications. Up next we speak with fetterman University Professor james guth about the role of religion in politics. The name of the book is oxford handbook of religion and american politics and it is four decades in preparation. A few people in the 1970s studied the relationship between religion and american politics, something that was not widely studied at the time. We did a lot of work, john green at the university did surveys by charitable trusts, in the 1990s and i think we have a pretty good case that religion was a pretty powerful factor, or political scientists agree with that, but we were convinced that no matter where you look, the way in which people voted, legislators behaved in congress or state legislators, the with the public thought about issues, religion played an Important Role in some cases, lesser role in other cases but still there and we wanted to try to figure out where all these influences were. A lot of things we were impressed with was historians and sociologists have been addressing this kind of question on the role of religion in american political life and scientists who were studying it were ignoring it. Historians especially what are known as the ethnic culture historians argued that all the way back to the very beginning it wasnt social class so much as economics that mated difference but it was what ethnicity or religion you were that made the difference and a lot of us whose contributions have lot of different ethnicities. We were from the midwest and grew up in a community, if you democratic, it didnt matter, if you were all farmers, ethnicity and religious division made a big difference. One thing we discovered is we have every shaping of our religious constituencies in the two Political Parties in the next two decades. We have come to situation over the last several elections depending on the nature of the economy, unpopular wars and things like that, democratic or republican, president ial may go up or down, the underlying religious constituency in the two parties remains fairly similar over the last several president ial elections. It has become a very big part of republican electorate, as much as 40 of the Republican Party and added to that you had mormons, religiously traditional catholics, conservative main line protestants and that is the Republican Party. The Democratic Party has been the party of religious minorities and secular people and that is increasingly the case. You see those differences sharpening. It is interesting because you do see different perspective said and these two changes little bit with who is in the white house and things like that but on the hole, republican religious groups especially evangelical protestants tend to be more sympathetic to what we call american exceptionalism. They see the United States having a special role in the world and responsible, maybe god has made the responsible for preserving order in the world, they tend to be a little more willing to use military force end engage in unilateral action on the part of the United States, not as sure we should be depending on allies and things like that. In some ways this fits the themes of evangelical or fundamentalist theology. The connection is not necessarily direct but it is there. You can see how it influences attitudes towards American Foreign policy. Most of the democratic religious groups are more likely to hold it to what we might call cooperative internationalism. There has promilitary, they tend to see the United States as a country that ought to have a role in the world, needs to work with others, and if you look at the Democratic Coalition you might say in some ways it looks like a model un and the real un you have hispanics, africanamericans, lot of different groups that really think we need to stress cooperative diplomacy rather than military forms. There are a lot of conflict religion creates within the Political Parties. We have stressed the differences created between the two parties with different religious groups at each party, different perspectives on issue is growing out of their different theological or cultural or historical backgrounds, but obviously within each party is a great deal of diversity as well. You have in the Republican Party religious conservatives who are 40 or 50 of the party but you have business folks, who are maybe fairly religiously committed but are not as powerful the committed as some of the religious conservatives are. They are interested in economic policy, more concerned with those kinds of fishes. They dont want to fight the christian rights battles and theres a lot of tension between those groups. The religious conservatives tend to be pretty conservative on economic questions as well but also tend to be suspicious of big business especially the really top of the economic totem pole at not sure of all those people have the best interests at heart. On the democratic side we have a lot of very secular people who dont want to see any representation of religion in public life but also have hispanic catholics, black protestants, an expression of faith in the lot of ways, automatically connected to their face so in 2012, the Democratic Convention over the word got appears on the democratic platform or not. We are going to see those battles continue in both parties. They are not invisible quite often. They are there and going to be a part of party politics. One of my colleagues has a chapter in the book, was studying from the jackson campaign. In the 1980s, he tells the story of how he was following the two candidates attending two conventions, working with their delegates at the convention, he attended one of the caucasus at the jackson delegate, and the jackson delegatess were inclined to begin their caucuses with an opening prayer and have a benediction at the end. Jackson also had a very a lot of secular white democrats to support him and they were strictly speaking appalled by the fact the you had this political meeting that was being opened and closed with prayer. That is a small example of the Division Within the Democratic Party but is still there. The Democratic Party has a hard time dealing with any religious issue because no matter what position a democratic politician takes he is likely to disappoint or even antagonize one element of their constituency. South carolina historically has been a state that has been dominated by evangelical protestants, Southern Baptists are part of the Largest Group here. We have fundamentalists like Bob Jones University, some pentecostals and charismatics, folks like that. Those groups in recent years have been very much players on the republicans side of almost any contest you look at. Historically you have had different groups engage in different times. Early on in the 1960s and 70s the alumni from Bob Jones University were important elements in the Republican Party when the Republican Party is really just getting started. Business focus and bob jones people who played a major role in getting the party under way. Later on religious groups intended to come in. When Pat Robertson put together the Christian Coalition and his president ial campaign pentecostals and charismatics tended to infiltrate the Republican Party. The fundamentalists and some of the others didnt like some very much but they fought vigorously in republican primaries and a republican candidate whoever he or she was in the general election, better than the democrats. On the democratic side in recent years africanamericans played very Important Role, half of the typical democratic primary voters are africanamerican so every democratic candidate, africanamerican or caucasian or any other has to appeal in africanamericans in churches and one of the favorite venues of candidates when they come to South Carolina to seek the democratic primary, federal government beginning in the Carter Administration in the early years of the Reagan Administration were pursuing religious institutions, especially schools both at the primary, secondary and College Level that were racially discriminatory and bob jones is sort of the peak case in that campaign. The Supreme Court, the federal government could indeed let the Tax Exemption because of discriminatory behavior. And christian schools, and segregation academies and religious institutions that discriminated, gave impetus to the development of the moral majority. There was some truth to that. One of the factors that encourage the founders of religious right organizations, to pick up the ball and start going with those. Political scientists and scholars tend to overestimate the importance that had as opposed to other questions. And conservative religious people engaged in the political process. As you go down the road american. Is life is changing, we have new religious groups appearing in larger numbers. More known christian, nonjewish groups, muslims, intos and others. More people are forgoing religious affiliation. We have this changes and religious constituencies. End over the long run. And the issues are going to change. And nonreligious or anti religious perspectives i going to be a part of the political by dialogue. At the thurmond University Library, which houses where books and manuscripts to the baptists religion, in green ville. We here at thurmond university in greenville South Carolina. In our collections in our department, we have everything, from medieval manuscripts. And we have a number of different specialized collections but one of the major ones at the University Related to baptist history and baptist historical collections. Collections to look at today are related to that and they come from a variety of different places and a number of individuals several of whom have early associations. What we see today, we have some hidden gems in the baptist historical collection. The eighteenth and nineteenth century. We have larger implications for social and cultural history. Hand and religious history, not just church history. At they are active in social and political debates of the time and the work they did. And the eighteenth and nineteenth century. And in 1772 was an unpublished manuscript. And 1772 years before publish the history of the baptist in new jersey. Hand to take a history of the states, the colonys down through virginia. We recently had a concern, and this is in much better shape. Whenever i show this to students i always ask them to try to read the first couple sentences from the beginnings of the chapter in North Carolina. And the polite and wealthy province of South Carolina. And it happens for the most part, and to labour for them to wait on them. And the heavy editorial editorial influence, and go back to North Carolina as a means of contrast. And superiors make complaints about the people and people of their superiors, and at the time of eyes that is beginning under bondage. Many times over. Stock contrast between north and South Carolina. The manuscript goes on for a couple hundred pages. And documenting people, parishes and places, hand in that area. It is a remarkable document caught as yet unpublished in American Church history and also a settlement and regional history. The next thing we are going to look at is a letter from november of 1775 written by richard thurmond, baptist minister in charleston, South Carolina, who is the namesake of this universe university, he died in 1825, the South Carolina baptists named this new institution in its memory. Illiterate and from his home base, up from the low country up the coast and it is happening in november of 1775. That is when South Carolina, and and a to govern the state in this period. And there are great concentrations of wealth and power. Folks in the up country part of South Carolina which pretty much meant the rest of the state, two thirds of the state in that area were very skeptical. Power being concentrated on the post and also where they were. They werent necessarily convinced breaking from britain was the best reason to do at the time or the best reason in general. His letter is talking, explaining the situation, he mentioned the Boston Tea Party and how it may have been justified, he says we should remain loyal to the king at this point but we should have no trust in parliament because parliament has not answered our needs. The continental congress, putting steps to still tempered things a bit. In 1775 as a young man. And the most respected baptist ministers in the south, the leader of the South Carolina baptist convention, senior theologian in the colony and the state. And because of that and the nature of South Carolina, looking at individual. And and providing an extended biblical justification. The short statement, he argues slavery is not necessarily the best case in all situations and in the case of america from a biblical standpoint it is justified. He argues like many would later argue that the conditions of the slaves in america are much better than that of the natives in africa and this theological and socialist education, stalled out in this period, provides the basis of 40 years of biblical justification for slaverys that happened by some preachers and ministers throughout this time. James fetterman was a baptist minister and theologian and professor before he became president of the university, and in 1860s, he was an ardent supporter, at the point at which South Carolina was starting to call off the session convention together, many people on the upstate being skeptical of power structures within the states were not quite sure if it was the right thing to do. It was more unanimous but a number of others did a number of public lectures and talks basically stumping for the cause in the session period and this is one of his speech drafts in that period from 1860, during the war years the university shut down much of its students have all enlisted and gone off and the university would resume operations in 1866. I have one other document from the collection that is interesting. We have the furtherman notes and personal diaries and journals and other personal papers and in the back of this tiny little handstitched notebook and at has furman notes on it, and his religious activities in the back, we find on these two pages, in his hand or the hand of his wife this is a record from 1832, and 1833 of baptisms that he took a part in. You can see the location and the date is noted. November of 1832, white and black baptists, you concede the name of barnett and mary, his wife, belonging to to the freeze. December 22nd, these individuals were baptized dec. 24 if, black people were baptized, three black people and in some instances they are named by name. Georgetown, low country of South Carolina to charlotte courthouse to baton rouge louisiana. The baptists believed in the baptism of africanamerican and bring them into the church and in many cases encouraged independent congregations to form for worship. In that regard, they were a little different from other religious bodies in the south of this period. A more general christian attitude towards enslaved americans. The baptists actively encourage baptism and encourage religious celebration and observance. This is really an amazing middle record of one instance of for a couple months of his life and part of his work. The last thing i want to talk about is this periodical called the southern life, an independent religious and literary journal published in edge field, South Carolina in 1866. We only have four issues of it and i believe it only existed less than a full year of its periodical run. In South Carolina, a small town, the county seat, small town now, smaller town in 1856, 500 residents. In some cases this is a really remarkable survivor because it is a baptist based religious literary social journal collecting information for its readers and disseminating it out. This periodical only exists in a couple libraries in the country and it is fascinating because it shows how its editors were again plugged into the religious issues of the time. The abolition as no. Preacher theodore parker, both individuals as part of the Transcendentalist Movement going on to really working for abolition and progressive reform in all areas of society and strongly worded articles condemning their work as well. We can look carefully at the contents and editorial selection of small regional works and see again how their editors were very much plugged in historical and ideological debates of the time. You are watching booktv on cspan2. This weekend we are in greenville, South Carolina with help of local cable partner Charter Communications. At the next we speak with akan malaci, author of u. S. President s and Foreign Policy mistakes. In the last campaign you were asked a question about the biggest mistake you made in your life that you joked about trading sandy says the. Before 9 11 you look what mistakes had been made after 9 11. What would your biggest mistake be would you say and what lessons have you learned from it . I wish you had given me this request inert of time so i could plan for it. I know can the book as u. S. President and Foreign Policy mistakes. Steve walker, we decided to write it a few years back, you need and location for a press conference given by the then president george w. Bush. I think it was in april of 2004, he was asked about his biggest mistakes, the first few years of the administration. And the president took the question and couldnt give an answer. He then meandered a round the affirmation of his decision to go to war in afghanistan and all so invade iraq but in the end he could not give an answer saying i wish you had given me this question before hand so i could think about it. So he had no response about any mistakes he may have committed. Our focus substantively is on the concept of power. Saying in the book, in National Politics, the concept of power, once the russian cobol, who controls who . Who utilizes who . Who dominates who . We are arguing that incorrect answers to those fundamental questions in National Politics can lead to Foreign Policy mistakes. In our effort to conceptualize the Foreign Policy mistakes or mistakes in general for that matter we are making some simple but fundamental distinctions. A mistake can be a mistake. You should do something but alternatively, you shouldnt do something but you do it. So those would be illustrations of omissions and commissions. Tied can occur on two Different Levels on the diagnostic level or the intelligence level, you misdiagnose the challenge you are facing. Alternatively, on the prescriptive level you may diagnose the challenge, but you apply the wrong means, inefficient means to the challenge. If you are sick a doctor has two tasks, diagnosed the illness and prescribe the appropriate medicine. He or she can make mistakes on one level or both. If i take a historical examples, i think we see, you know, the bay of pigs invasion for example, we see mistakes of commissions, where our leaders saw something in fidel castro that was not there. Do not always have meanings towards moscow. Did not have as strong meanings towards a communist existence as we believe in. We committed to this view. That led us to a prescriptive mistake. The infamous bay of pigs invasion has come as one of the greatest Foreign Policy fiascos in recent years. It used to be the case the we had a definition of power, if actor a gets actor be to do something actor be otherwise would not do, actor a is said to have power over activity, classic definition of power. How this plays out is a difficult issue. Very elusive issue. It used to be the case, in a battle which every side brought more military, more artillery, larger army to the battlefield, Everything Else being equal was the most powerful side and would prevail. That is not the case. It hasnt been the case for a while. Who has power is a difficult question, how power plays out. You saw for example, tragic and horrific attacks of 9 11, if people were able to exercise tremendous power, we saw in the aftermath of the might of American Power in spite of it, we are not able to control situations in iraq or afghanistan or other places. I would say since 9 11, arguably much earlier in vietnam or earlier than that or since 9 11 or what came after words, some fundamental lessons about how power should have been learned and in simple terms power is not what it used to be. It doesnt work in those. You cant quantify power. Power is not applicable in the way is it used to be. It doesnt get you the results you are hoping for. Another lesson i think is very important fundamentally for our president ial aspects is to understand indeed utilities and these utilities of military power, and there is much lacking here in understanding, we hear loud calls from politicians and president ial candidates for the Strongest Military the world has ever seen. It is not the we become isolationists or anything of that sort, that is not the argument, and the realization the power being called for is not something productive. The outcomes we want to achieve, it costs a lot of money. There are many good examples, the use of power in the middle east, there was a belief that engaging military power be it in afghanistan or iraq, will lead us to certain political outcomes we are does sirinesiring, hopin achieve. It was easy to change how the taliban for a while or to depose Saddam Hussein but it is much more difficult to control the situation that is emerging afterwards, much more difficult to use the same power to control insurgencies and fight that kind a sober Foreign Policy decisionmaking process should be marked in the beginning perhaps by a demarcation of the known from the unclear from the presumed, and we find that is not the case, the unclear, for the presumed becomes an unknown. We find very interesting bias that i think is universal and was widespread. It is a bias for the question what shall we do rather than what is happening here. These are two examples that would aid better decision soon but making, a sober process to delineate the known from the presume, the unclear, and what is happening here before we move on to what we should do. That is paired with Something Else that pertains college humans are fallible, they are limited in their decisionsmaking capacity, they have every existing beliefs, personality traits, all kinds of biases for the decisionmaking process. In a world that has a good amount of uncertainty to it. Humans are fallible in their decisionmaking, he would command a strategy that is referred to as disjointed incremental, Foreign Policy decisions disjointed incrementalism which means we are always just making small steps to the left and right. Incremental steps. Disjointed means they are reversible. Small steps in order to avoid Foreign Policy disasters or fiascos we have seen we are in the workroom of the South Carolina room, part of this room in the library, none of our books, we have quite an extent and periodicals but nothing can be checked out. We served the public in Greenville County and people come from other places in surrounding counties to provide information about the history of green ville, redevelopment of this area, it is centered on green ville counties, in South Carolina, the upper portion as we half have unique items here, books that are on the area that are newer. We have both. We will take a look at the gym of our collection. It is et they book of Alexander Mack beth from 1794 and is probably the oldest item, a single item that we have related to green ville so it is a store that was at the intersection of the old white horse road and the Richard Harris wagon road and these dates back to the very beginnings of settlement in this area. It was the store where they bartered, there was not a lot of hard cash that changed hands here so they often used deerskin to purchase items coming from charleston. About three months of transactions in this day book. It is in very fragile condition and we keep it back in the archives in a box to protect it and i may open it up here too a couple of pages. So you can see of course it is handwritten and he lists transactions of folks coming in and just local people or and a lot of transactions are going to be for liquor. What do we have here . Two pints of whiskey. Appears the whiskey was very popular and in this area, they sold all kinds of items coming up from charleston and right here at the bottom there is a special interest for myself, it is deerskin coming from a fellow by the name of hunt. This is my fifth grade grandpa. He was the first hunt that settled in this district. You might find an ancestor of the local people coming here. Might find someone you are related to in some of our collections. Over here, the one with a little bit later in time, into the 1800s, it is the ledger book that this fellow is often called the father of green ville. He was born in spartanburg district which is an adjoining county, in lincolnton, n. C. Made money and invested and got industry going in the city. This ledger book is from 1846. It is quite a bit different from the first ledger from the macbeth ledger. Many more women making purchases alisha as more women in the area, over generally this was very frontier type situations with mostly men. There is a lot less alcohol being purchased especially by women but there is alcohol still a popular item you might say. In the 1840s theres a lot more cash purchases, not using deer skin to purchase items at this store sells a lot of changes and going non. In South Carolina, they were interested military history. And built the revolutionary war, civil war, there was a history of military participation. In the early 20th century, during world war i, there was a camp built here just north of town, camp severe, training troops who were going over to france. One of the outfits that was organized there was the 30th, at 30 Food Division and this is a book that was printed after the war by some of the fellows who were in that particular unit. They sold hickory
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