Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV Encore Booknotes 20130831

A private individual rather than a public figure. Its about an hour. Nixon had written a very scathing memorandum criticizing the administrations handling of that transition, and he criticized it as pathetically inadequate; that he thought the administration was not supporting Boris Yeltsin enough financially. And he had written this memorandum, and it had leaked and it exploded on the front page of the New York Times. So president bush was going to be forced to answer nixons criticism at nixons conference so nixon was caught in the maelstrom of all these highly dramatic events, and i accompanied him to washington for that conference. And nixon hosted a Different Group of people at his head table for each panel discussion, and i was asked to join his head table during zbigniew brzezinksis panel discussion. And i sat to the right of president nixon, and to the right of me was james schlesinger. And i noticed that there was a camera above us that was trained on brzezinksi, and brzezinksi began his remarks and i noticed some activity out of the left corner of my eye. President nixon had leaned forward, and he took a writing pad off of the table that the hotel had provided, he picked up a pen and i saw him scribbling something. And he passed the note to me, and i looked down and it said, are you having a good time . And i immediately turned the pad over because i didnt want the camera to pick up what he had written because he was supposed to be paying attention to what brzezinksi was saying. But to me that really illustrated the kind of person he was, that he was involved in all of these great events and really influencing american policy toward russia and having to worry about that, and yet at the same time he was concerned about my welfare and whether or not i was learning anything. Cspan there was a moment in the book you describe where you went to his house, and you were supposed to go to see him i think he was up on the third floor, and you caught him watching the Dick Van Dyke show. What was so unusual about that . Guest that was such a fantastic memory for me because nixon always claimed that he never watched television, and of course he did. He liked to watch the news. He watched sporting events. He used to watch football and baseball quite avidly. But he never admitted to watching sort of mindless entertainment. So i was usually about five minutes late for our meetings at the residence in the afternoon, so he normally expected me to be late. And this one day in particular i was five minutes early, and i was walking up the stairs, and before i could clear the stairs to the third floor, i heard the television going. And then i heard canned laughter coming out of that television, and i realized that he was watching something that was meant to amuse. And i was very surprised by this. And i looked at him, and he had his shoes off and his feet were stockinged, up on the ottoman, crossed, and he had the Remote Control in his hand, and he was laughing. He was just enjoying the show and the moment so much, and i just observed him for a couple of moments because i really wanted him to have those few extra minutes when he didnt have to be on, and he didnt have to be the serious Richard Nixon that he presented to me, most of the time anyway, and i really enjoyed seeing that. But then i cleared my voice and i cleared the top of the stairs, and he looked at me and he was horrified that he had been caught in the act of watching television, the Dick Van Dyke show no less. And he tried to simultaneously shut the tv off with the Remote Control and jam his feet into his shoes, and he dropped the Remote Control. And it was a big, chaotic scene but really, you know, he said, well because he was red faced, he said, well, you caught me. You caught me watching the tube. And he said, i dont do it often, but sometimes i like to see whats out there. Cspan when was the last time you saw him . Guest the last time i saw him was the friday before he had the stroke. He had the stroke on a monday, so i saw him friday afternoon. Cspan what do you remember about that particular occasion . Did he know he was in bad shape . Guest actually, he wasnt. The stroke came out of the blue, totally unexpected. Nixon was an extremely disciplined person. He ate spartan diets and he exercised on a daily basis. He used to take three mile walks every day, rain or shine, freezing cold, stifling heat. He really took very good care of himself because he dreaded the entire aging process, and he hated Everything Associated with mortality and death. So he fought it with every fiber of his being. I remember nixon being particularly pensive on that last afternoon. In fact, we sat out on the deck normally we would have our meetings in his library in the residence, but he insisted that we sit out that day. It was a nice, warm spring day. He wanted to take advantage of it, and he was quieter than usual. And it may have been im not a medical person, i dont mean to speculate but it may have been that there were some things going on in his body that even he wasnt aware of, but he seemed quieter than usual. Cspan as you know, youve got a lot of quotes in this book, and ive transcribed some of them onto our machine that puts them on the screen so that people can read along with them. Guest ok. Cspan when you read them, it gives you a greater sense of what the books all about. Why dont we look at one right now . Guest sure. Cspan this one says, the kennedys were not admirable people. This is Richard Nixon, as you transcribed it. they simply were not nice. The legend is that jack was always gracious, charming, dashing, he said, putting his nose in the air. bull. He spit on waiters and ignored or screamed at the help. I remember attending a dinner once and watching bobby, who was the smartest, and also the meanest, throw his meal on the floor and right at a waiter because he didnt like it. Bebe and hes talking about bebe rebozo knew the kennedys, and they used to socialize when they were in key biscayne. All of them used to treat the help like crap, and, i mean, they were mean. Most of the help was cuban, and they treated them like they didnt exist. Bobby was the worst. He illegally bugged more people and started it than anyone. He was a bastard. and when did he say that, and how often did he talk about the kennedys like this . Guest well, nixon always claimed that he wasnt very concerned with the kennedys, but kennedys name came up in conversation probably more than any other president that we discussed, of his predecessors and his successors. I think that nixon was fundamentally a good man and that he could not stand to see people in positions of power abusing that power and treating people who were in Service Positions with disrespect. That really grated on him because nixon, we have to remember, came from nothing. He came from poverty, and he just, through the sheer force of will and brilliance intellectual brilliance and drive climbed his way to the pinnacle of power in american politics. And he never gave up that the fact, though, that he was brought up to be a good person, and he could not understand the kind of arrogance displayed by the kennedys in those types of situations. Cspan when did you decide to do this book . Guest i decided to do it several months after nixon passed away. Actually, you know, nixon gave me a lot of responsibilities and assignments on a daily basis, so i always carried a notepad with me whenever we spoke. So nixon knew that i was taking some notes during the course of our conversations. He did not know the extent to which i was reconstructing those conversations, and he did not know about the diaries. When i began taking these notes, i knew that i was granted a very rare and highly personal view into one of the most enduring and controversial president s of the 20th century and so i did not want to squander that opportunity. So i began taking these notes essentially from my own personal memory. I wanted to remember for myself what he did on a daily basis, who he was, what he said. And it was only after he passed away and i began to look through these diaries that i really realized the value and the totality of what i had. And i met with William Safire of the New York Times in august of 1994, several months after nixon had passed away, and, sort of off the cuff, mentioned to him that i had all of this material in diaries. And he really urged me to write the book. He said, it must be written. Cspan would you have written it if he hadnt urged you to do that . How important was the bill safire imprimatur on this . Guest it was fairly important because i felt that somebody of his stature and somebody who he knew nixon so well. If he thought that this wasnt a project that i shouldve pursued, then i wouldnt have done it. Cspan wheres your hometown . Guest new jersey. Central new jersey. Cspan where . Guest a town called warren. Cspan how long did you live there . Guest ive lived there about 17 years. I was born in arizona, but i was raised in new jersey. Cspan and where did you go to college . Guest i did my undergraduate work at Colgate University in upstate new york, and im pursuing my doctorate at columbia university. Cspan skipping the masters . Guest i actually have two masters degrees as part of the ph. D. Program. Cspan and what are those in . Guest they are an ma and an mfel in International Relations cspan when was the first time that you had any contact with Richard Nixon . Guest actually, i can get into how i originally wrote the letter to him. I was a junior at colgate and i was majoring in Political Science, and i was enrolled in a course on National Security and Foreign Policy affairs. And that was taught by a very good, very conservative professor, and i consulted with this professor because i thought that i wanted to enter that area upon my graduation. So as i prepared to leave campus between my junior and senior years, he gave me several books to read, one of which was nixons 1999 victory without war. And that book had such a tremendous impact on my thinking about very crucial Foreign Policy issues that i sat down and i wrote nixon a letter dealing with the issues that he raised in the book. And it was a substantive letter, which later he told me was the reason it caught his eye. I mailed it, never expected a response. And about a month later i went to my mailbox, and i received a handwritten response from president nixon, telling me how much he thought of my letter, how much he appreciated the fact that id actually read his book and he invited me to come to his office in new jersey and discuss american Foreign Policy with him. So in october of my senior year that was 1989 i traveled to his Bergen County office in new jersey, and he gave me two hours of his time. We talked about the state of the world. And what surprised me most about that initial meeting was that he was so generous with his most precious commodity, and that was his time. Cspan and Bergen County is located where, for people whove never been to the east coast . Guest northeast new jersey. Cspan how far away was he driving into new york city . Guest he was about half an hour, 45 minutes from new york. Cspan what was the office like . How many people worked around him . Guest actually, he had an office in new jersey. He worked for years in manhattan, but the traffic was too much for him. So he moved an office in woodcliff lake, new jersey, and thats where i went. He had a very small staff four people; he had two secretaries, an Administrative Assistant and me. Cspan and what was the first day you went to work for him . Guest july 3rd, 1990. So right after my graduation. Cspan a total of four years you spent there . Guest yes. Cspan how many trips did you take with him . Guest i accompanied him on two international trips. In february, i went with him to Eastern Europe and to russia, and later that year, in april, i went with him to asia. Cspan what do you remember from that experience, the International Travel . Guest well, i remember so many things. What stands out to me the most, though, is that nixon was so generous and so good to me on those trips. He had me sit in on almost all of his meetings with the heads of state and other government leaders that he saw in these places. Cspan and youre going to do a second book . Guest yes. Yes, indeed. Im working on a second volume that will deal with nixons evolving thoughts on Foreign Policy, what he thought and what he did during the end of the cold war, which is very interesting because nixon was so gratified to see the end of the cold war. This was a man who began his political career at the very beginning of the cold war, had led the nation through a very crucial period of it, and yet lived to see the end of it. And he was so gratified because he had felt that everything he stood for throughout his political career, all those anti communist platforms, had been vindicated. So it was nice to be there, with him, at that time. Cspan weve got just a short minute video clip from the booknotes that we did with the president when he was here, and i want to show that and get your reaction to what he said. Guest ok. [excerpt from booknotes, february 1992] cspan did you write this book . Richard nixon yes. I would say, unfortunately, those who criticize the style, and it certainly justifies criticism, generally say that it sounds like me. The reason it sounds like me is that, after i take all of the and i point out in the authors note that i had some excellent people working with me marns tremeky, who was the editor, my chief editor on this book, who did made a great contribution; and monica crowley, who is in my office now; joel marks they were two full time assistants. And then a number of others wrote various papers on the various subjects. But when it finally came down to the final product, then i had to not just do the editing, but i also had to get it in my words so that it sounded like me. As i often said to people working with me, when i would rewrite something, id say, the trouble is Everybody Knows my style so well that if i leave it like this, it isnt going to sound like me. I think this sound like me. I think this book sounds like me, for better or for worse. [end of excerpt] cspan now from all the time you spent around him, how much did we see there thats like him, when the cameras arent on, and how much is different . Guest you mean in terms of who he was personally . Well, may i say that when i first was preparing to meet him, for the very first time, i was prepared to encounter the public image of Richard Nixon, which really is very one dimensional. Its sort of a dark, brooding, serious, mysterious character. And the nixon i knew, that part of him was just a fraction of who he was. And what surprised me so much and delighted me was that nixon was so much more than that. The nixon i knew was a brilliant man. He was a political mastermind, which even his detractors will concede. He was generous. He was thoughtful, thoughtful in the sense of compassionate. He was a warm person. He was a witty person. Nixon could be very funny at times, and that never, ever came across in his public image, and i think thats a shame. I tried to get some of that humanity across in this book. I hope i succeeded. Cspan how did you physically keep track of the quotes because some of them are almost page length . Guest let me tell you how i proceeded with the whole note taking process. As i said, i always carried a notepad with me during our conversations. I would take some notes in shorthand, as he was talking, so that i had key words and phrases and so forth. And then i would go back to my desk immediately and reconstruct those conversations so i had them on paper while they were still fresh in my mind. And then later that night i would go home and reconstruct them once again in my diaries so that i could put the conversation with a date and a time. And then a fourth stage occurred at the end of each week, when i would go back and review the weeks conversations. And if i had forgotten something or if an insight had occurred to me, id jot those in as well. And i think i was able to maintain and preserve the integrity of the dialogue doing it that way. Cspan and you never thought at that time you were going to do this book . Guest no, it didnt occur to me to write a book. I knew that i was being exposed to this incredible historic opportunity, so i was doing it for myself all along. Cspan was there a point where you would be exhilarated by what you had on paper . Guest yes, yes. There were many of those. Almost every day there was something that i thought, my goodness, i have such a treasure here. What a great quote what a great turn of phrase and i was glad that i was there to hear it. Cspan lets look at some more of the quotes from your book. This is one on the media. And it says, the media and i wont use the language are all you can imagine what that is. Did you see the way they sugarcoated clintons appearance last night . They are out to save the guy at any cost and to prove they were right on him. They are a lousy damn bunch. Its a wonder that we win any races with the likes of them covering us. The deception between how the elite media and the popular media cover clinton is amazing. The elitists are all for him. The popular media are all calling him an ass. It shows how disconnected those elitists are. Did he normally talk with that kind of language . Guest yes, to me. And that was very surprising to me because we were of two different generations and two different genders, so i thought that he would filter out some of that language, but he didnt. He peppered his language with mild profanity on a regular basis. But that to me indicated that he really did trust me and considered me a confidant, that he was able to talk as he normally would. Getting back to his idea about the media, nixon always said that his problems with the media or his disagreements with the media stemmed from the alger hiss case. And he said when he exposed alger hiss, he exposed the press. And he said the worse thing that you can do to a member of the press is prove that they are wrong. And he said, thats what i did with alger hiss, and they never forgave me for it. Cspan heres another quote. This one says and well get it on the screen in a moment gd it why the hell isnt he showing some leadership . Whos he talking about . George bush . Ill tell you something. When the [skips word] hits the fan and his gang comes to me for advice, im not going to provide it unless they are willing to thank me publicly. Neither reagan nor bush this must be. Guest referring to clinton. Cspan . Bill clinton. Neither reagan nor bush did that after all these years of my advice and, frankly, ive had it. Theyll find me when they need me, but i may not be available. Did he really mean that . Guest im not sure he was referring to clinton there. He may have been referring to the bush campaign. Im not sure. Well have to clarify that. Cspan but theres a lot of that kind of a quote in the book. Guest right. Cspan . About different politicians and the advice that they would seek from him, but they wouldnt acknowledge it publicly. What was that all about . Guest thats right. Well, generally that was a problem with the republican president s, because obviously there was a great political problem for them in dealing with Richard Nixon. This was a republican president who had been driven from office, and they did not want to publicly acknowledge the association that they had with Richard Nixon. So even though reagan and bush consulted with nixon on a fairly regular basis, although not as regular as bill clinton, they never did it publicly. They never put a picture out when he visited the white house they used to invite nixon at night so that the press couldnt actually see him entering the white house. And even though nixon understood that, because he was a political animal, even though he recognized that and understood it, i think it wounded him to a certain extent. Cspan who did he admire the most in history . Guest he admired Woodrow Wilson. He admired Winston Churchill and abraham lincoln, but he admired Woodrow Wilson because he said that even though wilson was too much of an idealist to be an effective president , that he was a man of thought and of action, and thats what nixon considered himself to be. Cspan heres a quote about ronald reagan, and he has a lot of this in the book, where he talks about his predecessors he does look great, though. He told me he exercises out on the ranch every day. Of course, he didnt go through what i went through in the watergate period, from april 15th to august 8th and 9th, the resignation, watergate, day in and day out. It was rough. Reagan, of course, had the assassination attempt, which was a tremendous physical challenge mine may have been rougher because it was emotional, but reagan just has such a positive outlook that i think that is half the battle. Guest i think that really cuts to the essence of who Richard Nixon was. He was such a fighter. He was so determined to come from he started his political career from nothing, he worked his way to the top. And i think that he really prided himself on the inner strength that he had; that hed always been a fighter; that even after watergate he was not going to lay down and take the punches and retire and be a recluse; that he was going to continue to contribute where he could and when he could. And thats what drove him in the last years of his life. In fact, they were the same things that drove him throughout his political career the need to contribute to the policy debates in this country, the need to advance us interests in the world and promote the causes of peace and freedom. Cspan now have you talked to any of the family about this book . Guest i informed the daughters that i was writing the book several months ago, probably march of this year, of 1996. I informed them that i was writing the book, but i have not heard from them directly. Cspan what do you think theyre going to think of this . Guest well, i dont know. I would hope that they would be pleased with it. I think nixon would have been pleased with it. This is an honest portrayal of who nixon was in the last years of his life. And theres so much out there thats dishonest about Richard Nixon that honesty was really the only thing he ever wanted or expected out of profiles on him so i think he would appreciate it. Also, i thought, when i was writing this book, i wanted this to be Richard Nixons story. I did not want it to be monica crowleys story about Richard Nixon. And i thought that the best way for nixon to influence history was to allow him to speak for himself. Cspan in the New York Times review, Michiko Kakutani writes this about your book mr. Nixon emerges as a smart, savvy and generally interested in the global consequences of american Foreign Policy. But he also comes across as self aggrandizing, petty, vindictive, suspicious, egotistical and manipulative. We seem him blatantly jockeying for a position of influence with the bush and clinton administrations, we see him trying almost desperately to reshape his public image, and we see him mouthing off indiscreetly about rivals and colleagues. What was your reaction to that . Guest well, i think thats a reflection of this reviewers political bias. Everybody has biases. I understand that. This reviewer obviously took those biases to the table when he or she wrote that piece. And nothing i could say about Richard Nixon was going to change that. So when they read this book, he or she obviously saw what they wanted to see in it. And thats fine. People just can take away from it what they will. I just ask that the readers read it with an open mind, and its my hope that somebody who reads this book will come away from it with a greater appreciation of nixons accomplishments and of his regrets and of the man, not just as a former president , and as a politician, but as a human being. Cspan you have a little story in there about the wiretap, and mr. Nixon calling you one day for reasons that you might explain to us . Guest yes. Actually, during the summer of 1992, as the political season was heating up before the election, nixon and i had both heard some strange clicking sounds on his telephone. And he said, you know, the phone may be tapped. And i said, well, it certainly could be. And he said, well, lets try a little experiment. He said, im going to call you. And he was on his way to california. So he said, im going to call you from california at your home, and im going to tell you that im going to come out endorsing ross perot for the presidency. Cspan and he thought that the Bush Administration was afraid of this . Guest yes. Yes. Actually, both sides might think, well, what was going on with Richard Nixon if hes endorsing ross perot . So he said, im going to tell you that im endorsing ross perot. I want you to keep a straight face and a straight voice. Dont let on to anything. And he said, were going to set this person up if, in fact, there are wiretaps on my phone. So he flew to california, he called me, we went through this little episode, and then nothing ever came of it. So either his phones werent tapped or nobody thought enough of it to leak it. But it was just one of his little experiments. Cspan hugh sidey came to visit on day, the former Time Magazine journalist. I maybe hes still i think he might still write for them sometimes. He had a column on the presidency. And what was the purpose of his visit . Guest well, nixon was very disappointed in bushs presidency for a number of reasons, and he sought out hugh sidey to sort of have these views either confirmed or denied by a true student of the presidency. And he liked hugh sidey. He admired him. He respected him as a very fair journalist and as a very fair commentator on his own political career and presidency. So he looked at him for a very frank assessment of bushs presidency, and i think he got it. Cspan but you told a story about how he hid in the kitchen at the office . Guest oh, thats a great story. Nixon was a very formal man and he knew that he had been president of the United States, and with that came some responsibility to dignity, which is why he always wore a suit and tie every day of the week. And sidey arrived for his meeting with nixon early, and nixon did not want sidey to see him before the appointed hour. So i was standing with nixon, and he ducked into the mail room. And he called me over with a whisper and he said, talk to sidey in my office. Im going to go through the door and go home, because he was treating sidey to lunch at his residence and sidey had come to the office. So i went into nixons office, i sat down with mr. Sidey and we had a very lovely, brief conversation, and nixon exited the door, went home in the limousine and was ready to greet mr. Sidey at the residence. Cspan now what was going through your head at this point . This is a man that everybody in the world knows, hiding in the mail room . What were you thinking when you saw that . Guest i thought it was an unbelievable episode, and i couldnt believe that i was actually a witness and a participant in it. But then i came to realize that, well, maybe there was something to this, that there was an image that nixon had to protect. He wasnt a casual man. And he was simply he was being himself. Thats who nixon was, that he wanted to preserve a measure of decorum in his conversations with people. Cspan the perot story he came to see him in the 92 campaign. Guest yes. Yes, he did. Cspan he kept him waiting a little bit. Guest yes. Actually, ross perot had done some media in the morning in new york city and he was on his way to see nixon. I think it was an 11 00 meeting im not quite sure. Ill have to check on that. But perot had stayed in the city longer than anticipated and then ran into a lot of traffic on his way out of the city into new jersey. So he kept nixon waiting for about two hours. And nixon paced back and forth, and he was not used to being kept waiting. And then ross perot finally arrived, and perot just came booming into the office. Hes quite a presence anyway he just takes up a whole room and introduced himself and issued a barrage of questions to all of us without waiting for any answers. And then he and nixon retreated to the office for a private talk. Cspan heres a quote that came out of one of these sessions. The former president this isnt the one. There was a quote about ross perot, if we can go to that quote perot can you believe this guy . Hes such an egomaniac. A debate with him would be a gd circus. Guest well, nixon believed that, when ross perot first entered the race, that he would be a good participant in the race, that he would make a positive contribution because he was such a colorful character. And nixon thought, well, he can galvanize the race. Hell go out there. Hes plain speaking. He relates well to people. People will take to him. And even though theres no way he can win the general election in november, he can spice up the race and perhaps make bush and clinton better candidates. And also, ross perot seemed willing to talk about crucial issues that neither of the other two seemed willing to talk about, like deficit reduction. So nixon thought he was making a positive contribution that way. But nixon also disagreed with perots protectionist and isolationist strains in his platform. And then perot exited the race and jumped back in, and this really disappointed nixon because he thought that perot was treating the president ial race as a game that was subject to his own caprices and his own whims. And so nixon thought that the country could not afford to have such an erratic character as a Vice President ial or a president ial nominee. Cspan how did you go about getting random house to buy this book . Guest actually, i had worked with harry evans at random house on nixons last book, beyond peace. So i had somewhat of an association with him. And i let him know that i had several sample chapters done that mr. Safire had read, and i had a simple outline for him, and would he be willing to read it . And he was, and he liked it, and so thats how it came to be. Cspan and when did you start that process . Guest actually, i originally envisioned this book as a single volume. I thought it would take the shape of three major parts nixon and the world, which would deal with Foreign Policy as i said, the end of the cold war, the persian gulf war, and so forth nixon and america, which would deal with a lot of his political views, which we see in this book; and nixon on nixon, more of nixon on the personal side, what he thought about the deaths of mrs. Nixon and haldeman and John Connally and so forth. And then as i began writing, i realized that the story would be better told in two parts. And i wanted to take the political material and publish it as a separate volume because i think it stood very powerfully on its own. Cspan two hundred and thirty pages, 23. Was this a hard thing to do . Guest no, it really wasnt, because i had the diaries, so i had all of the quotes there, and i had a lot of the insights that i had written in the diaries at the time. So the book pretty much wrote itself. Cspan the new yorker excerpted the part on bill clinton, Time Magazine wrote a major piece, the New York Times reviewed it. Theres lots more. Does that surprise you . Guest no, it doesnt. It doesnt, because whether you like or dislike Richard Nixon, whether you respect him or not, theres no denying that nixon was one of the most powerful and controversial people to ever run this country in the 20th century. So theres no ignoring Richard Nixon, and he continues to fascinate us. Cspan you worry that people in the future wouldnt want you around them because they would think a book will come out of a relationship . Guest well, im not doing this ever again, regardless of who i work for, because this was a very unique experience for me, particularly because i was so young. And its something that i wanted to do for my own reasons and to contribute to nixons legacy. So im done doing this. Cspan so youre what . 22 to 26 while youre working for him . Guest twenty one 21 to 25. Cspan twenty five. Anybody amazed, you know, around you . Your family . How many brothers and sisters do you have . Guest i have one sister. Shes two years younger. Shes getting her doctorate at mit. Cspan whats she studying . Guest Political Science as well, but shes studying american politics. Cspan whats her reaction to this . Guest oh, she thinks its terrific. She has a very positive reaction, although i must say shes on the other side of the political fence, so she comes at it through a different view. But she had the privilege of meeting nixon once and she respected him very much. Cspan what do your parents do . Guest my mother is a Hospital Administrator in new jersey and my father is in investments in texas. Cspan whats their reaction to this . Guest well, theyre very proud, obviously, and they think that the book is very good. They think that ive really portrayed nixon in a very honest light, and if its not honest, its worthless. So they were glad that i did it the way i did. Cspan anybody along the way say, dont do this. This is going to be youre going to have trouble with this . Guest no, not at all. Ive just gotten support during the whole process. Cspan lets look at some more quotes. This is self righteous, hypocritical bs. They used the war to justify their cowardice, talking about bill clinton in this quote. It wasnt class arrogance, because clinton wasnt rich, but it was intellectual arrogance. Im concerned about clinton and his whole crew, what they signify the deterioration of moral values. He has vindicated the anti vietnam, draft dodging, drug taking behavior. Most of that generation was bad, really bad. Guest nixon really he had led the country through the height of the counterculture period, and nixon was, like, the antithesis of what the counterculture was. And i think it was very ironic that he was president at that time, from 1968 to to 74. Nixon really thought that the counterculture had been such a Destructive Force in this country that it had turned back traditional values in this country and turned them back to the extent where they could never be recovered or there was a very slim chance of them ever being recovered, and he thought that was a shame. And he did think that bill clinton represented the worst of that generation, that he was opportunistic and selfish and insincere. And, in fact, the things that bothered nixon the most about clinton were his anti vietnam activities. Cspan better show this quote to put the two together. This is all about mrs. Clinton she has the gift of dazzle, nixon said after watching her testimony. this was on. Guest Health Care Reform. Cspan . Health care reform. she knocked them dead up there. They swooned over her and gave her Standing Ovations and just went gaga. Can you believe it . She takes the gloves off but does it with such sickening sweetness that it makes me want to gag. Liberals love government. next page, please. hillary doesnt give a for people. he stopped. well, thats not fair. She might shed a tear now and then we all do but she and her crowd all see government as the first resort when it should be the last. And here are idiots cheering her on. They threw softballs at her when they should have been aiming at her head. guest well, nixon knew that mrs. Clinton, as a young lawyer fresh out of law school, went to work for the House Committee working to impeach him, so he knew where she was coming from with regard to her view toward him. And he had a less than positive view toward her based primarily on her watergate experiences but also based upon what he perceived as her uncompromising liberal views. He thought that bill clinton would be more inclined to compromise than she would be. But nixon also had a high respect for people with great intelligence, and there was no doubt in his mind but that mrs. Clinton is very smart. He just thought and the problem for nixon was that mrs. Clinton believed in the wrong things, and thats bigger government. But nixon was also a very fair man, and when mrs. Clinton did things right, and when she was good and strong and effective, he said so. But when she was wrong, which was most of the time for nixon, he said so. And an illustration of this, which i think this puts it in great light is when mrs. Clinton did go to testify about the Health Care Reform package she had put together. And he watched her testify, as you see from that quote, and he was dazzled by her said, shes just great. And then he took a look at the package and he said, well, its totally wrong for america. Cspan how many times did bill clinton telephone Richard Nixon at his office or at his home . Guest he called him on a very regular basis, perhaps once every three or four weeks, for advice, particularly about Foreign Policy, but also about american policy and how to deal with the congress. Cspan how long would they talk . Guest it depended. The shortest conversation, i think, was 15 to 20 minutes. Most of their conversations lasted about 40. Cspan and he seemed to, in the book at least every time hed talk to him, hed say, monica, come in. I want to tell you what he said. Guest i want to share with you exactly what he said, yes. Cspan now why would he do that, do you think . Guest well, i think that he knew that i was representative of the future, of future generations. So when he was talking to me, he wasnt just talking to an audience of one, but he was talking to the audience of history, of the ages. So i think he saw me as a liaison between himself and future generations, and wanted to share it with me so that i would indeed record what had happened. Cspan how often did he talk to the president clinton and then afterwards trash him in your presence . Guest oh, almost every time almost every time. But as i said, nixon was a very fair guy. So negative assessments he would issue about bill clinton were almost always followed or balanced by positive assessments when he thought that clinton did something right. Cspan how did the meeting come about at the white house . Guest well, shortly after the inaugural, clinton called nixon and that began their surprisingly close relationship, surprisingly most of all to Richard Nixon, i think, because nixon felt that they were of two different generations, two different Political Parties and thought that clinton would not call on him. And he thought that even if clinton were inclined to call on him, that mrs. Clinton, because of her watergate experiences, would squash any inclination that clinton might have. So he was surprised when he first got that telephone call, and clinton invited him to the white house after one of their substantive discussions. And thats how it came about. Cspan heres another quote from the book around that particular meeting, and its clintons failure thus far to call on nixon, distressed and disappointed him. You wrote, if he wants distance from me, fine he said on november 28th. i wont have to pull my punches like i did with bush. The press, of course, wants to cut him some slack to protect him, little chelsea and poor hillary, who is such a weak little thing. Please. His contempt for the press should make them want to go after him, not protect him, gd it. If i go after him, ill be sure that it is covered. guest that quote was spoken on november 28th, so that was a couple of weeks only after the election. So nixon really wasnt even giving clinton a chance to contact him. But the frustration was already there because, as i said, he sensed that clinton would not contact him and that nixon would have to face four years of frustration in watching the successor act in ways that he would not without having the chance or the opportunity to tell clinton really what to do. Cspan is there anything you didnt like about Richard Nixon . Guest i liked him very much and i admired him very much. He was a good man. He really was a good person and he was very good to me. I think that nixons greatest flaw was his impatience. He was very impatient with himself, he was very impatient with those around him and he was very impatient with history. He was always trying to nudge history forward so that he would have a more favorable rating so that his mistakes would be put in context with his accomplishments, and that ultimately, those mistakes would pale in comparison to what he had accomplished for this country, and that eventually, he would emerge as a great president , particularly when his presidency would be put up against other presidencies. Cspan you say i think i remember you quoting it that when he was in the white house and met the president in the family quarters. Guest yes. Cspan . That mrs. Clinton called him richard . Guest by accident, yes, and then she caught herself and she said president. She was actually referring to the fact that president nixon had put together sort of an embryonic Health Care Reform package and it never got passed it actually never came of anything. And she started to say to president clinton, Richard Nixon had a great Health Care Reform proposal, and then she caught herself and she said president nixon. Cspan lets look at a quote he has about politicians in general. And i want to know if hes talking about himself here. Politicians are generally cold they back winners. When you are down, they all desert. They are not a very nice bunch. Guest well, i think he knew that politics is a very cynical business but that he liked to say that he had not succumbed to that type of cynicism. And actually, i think that quote was spoken right after he had written president bush a very nice note, i think after bush had lost the election or maybe it was right prior to the election. He wrote bush a very spirited note wishing him well and not to worry, and not to worry about monday morning quarterbacks and so forth, but to keep his spirit up. And it was a nice note of political camaraderie. And thats when he said that politicians are generally cold, and what he was really saying, well, im not cold. This is what ive done. This is the kind of person that i am. Cspan heres what he said about pollsters all pollsters lie, but i had a few great ones. Guest well, he was very skeptical about the polling process in america, and he described to me an incident in 1960, when he was running against jack kennedy. And he said that the pollsters then had a poll in october which showed him a couple of points behind kennedy in october. And they ran another poll a couple of days right before the election that showed them neck and neck, and he said, they never published that poll because they wanted to keep the winning momentum on kennedys side. So that really gave him a very bitter taste of the whole polling process and he said, now there are so many independent pollsters that they really cant keep the lid on it anymore like they did in 1960. But he did think that the pollsters loaded their polls one way or another, depending on how the political winds were blowing, and he really didnt trust them. And, in fact, in 1993, we were watching Christie Whitman run against jim florio for the governorship of new jersey. And Christie Whitman was down by, like, 20 points a week or two out from the election, and yet, she still won. And nixon said, you see . I told you the polls were all bad. Cspan did he talk to a lot of people every day when he was in his office . Guest not a lot of people on a daily basis. He had a group of people that he would talk to occasionally, like Henry Kissinger and alexander haig, Dimitri Simes for russian affairs. He didnt spend a lot of time on the telephone. Cspan what was the day like for him near the end . Guest well, he was an early riser. He would get up about 5 00, 5 30 in the morning. He would take a brisk three mile walk. He would eat a very spartan breakfast. He would read the New York Times, the wall street journal every day. And then he would come into the office about 9 00, and he would go through his mail and handle any scheduling and calendaring things that he needed to take care of, any administrative things. And then he would usually call me in for a bull session to just talk about whatever was on his mind Foreign Policy, american policy. Cspan what did you learn that youre going to use in your own i mean by the way, whens your ph. D. Going to be finished . Guest thats the never ending process. Ive just begun research on my dissertation, so i suspect maybe two more years. Cspan now youre at columbia. Guest yes. Cspan and whats your dissertation about . Guest i am examining the relationship between the United States, the soviet union and the peoples republic of china as it evolved in three phases of the cold war that is, truman acheson, Nixon Kissinger and carter brzezinski. Cspan did he teach you anything about that that youre going to be able to use in this dissertation . Guest he did. He did. And also, i was fortunate enough to accompany him to china, as i said, in april of 1993. And one of the great things he said to me on that trip was, when we stepped out of the limousine in shanghai and he saw all of the bustling capitalism going on around him, he said, well, id like to think that i had a hand in all of this. Cspan who did you meet on those trips to russia and china . Guest i met with all of the heads of state in these countries. I had the great opportunity to meet Boris Yeltsin. That was really the only meeting that i did not sit in on from beginning to end. I had the opportunity to meet yeltsin and then they held their talks in private. But i met havel in the czech republic. I met lech walesa and sukova in poland. And in asia, i met with the japanese Prime Minister and the south korean head of state, and all the Chinese Communist leaders jiang zemin and li peng. Cspan who of all those people impressed you the most personally, not their political beliefs . Guest Boris Yeltsin, simply because im fascinated by russian politics and russian history, and hes just such a formidable presence. Even walking into the room, hes just quite a force in his own right. And i admired him very much for having such a tremendous influence in bringing the end of communism to his state. Cspan when does your second book come out . Guest next fall. It will be published by random house. I havent titled it yet, but it will deal with nixons Foreign Policy views and it will deal with nixons views on scandal more extensively whitewater, watergate, the Clarence Thomas hearings, the kennedys. It will deal with the legacy of vietnam and what nixon saw the legacy of vietnam as for the United States, and the destruction of that entire era on american pop culture. And it will deal with nixon on nixon, his views on philosophy, on religion, on his family. Cspan the new yorker published an excerpt, as we were talking earlier. How did that happen . And what impact did that have on this whole process . Guest well, the new yorker wanted the first serial and they got it, and so they drew excerpts from it, primarily based on nixons relationship with bill clinton. And i had the Great Fortune of working with Jeffrey Frank there, and they put together a fine piece. Cspan and did that impact the rest of the media . Guest i think so, because the media the Wire Services picked up the most scandalous quotes of the excerpts, which were the most scandalous parts of the book. I think it drew a lot of initial attention to the book, and i think that was positive. Cspan whats the volume of material you have from your diaries . I mean, how much will there be stories left over that wont get in both of these volumes . Guest well, i chose the events and the situations that most infuriated or gratified, delighted, surprised nixon for this. And in a way, its almost like writing a screenplay. So when youre watching it, obviously youre not seeing all of the mundane little aspects of whats going on, but you see the most important elements to the story. So, sure, i think there will be stories that just simply arent important enough to include. Cspan what are you going to do with all the material for the the archive material . Guest my diaries . Cspan yeah. Guest theyre in a vault, and i think theyll remain in a vault. Cspan let me have another quote. This is a generic quote the election of 1960 was probably the greatest election of this century because the candidates were both outstanding. Guest yes. Cspan hes talking about himself and jack kennedy. Guest yes, and he usually referred to himself and kennedy as the candidates whenever he talked about 1960. He never said, well, i did this and kennedy did that. He said, well, the candidates did that. It was in the third person, which i thought was very interesting. He considered kennedy a Formidable Political challenger and he thought that he had had a fairly cordial relationship with him, a constructive relationship with him when they were in the congress together. And he did think, though, that kennedy had been a reckless president , not only reckless in his personal life, but reckless with the National Security of the country. Cspan gerald ford pardoned him. Did he ever talk to you about that . Guest not necessarily about the pardon. He thought that gerald ford was a good man. And he also said that he didnt think that ford was, obviously, not in the presidency long enough to issue sort of a fair judgment of fords presidency or at least apply the same standards to fords presidency as he would apply to the others. Cspan heres a quote about gerald ford from the book poor gerald ford. You wont even believe why he called me. He was concerned about some president ial photos and about having me sign them. Imagine. He calls me for that. Of course, hes busy making speeches for big money like the rest of them. You know, i have never taken a dime for a speech since 1952. Of course, no one gives me credit for that. Ford was really the first to take money. Roosevelt and kennedy died. Truman, eisenhower, johnson and i never did. But since ford, they are out there accumulating a fortune by selling the office or their experiences in office anyway. I know its tempting, but its just not right. Besides, when ford talks, does anybody pay any attention . Guest well, i think that was a function of the fact that ford really hadnt been in the office long enough to make any serious impact and that he was also simply a steward of existing policies. He said that gerald ford had every right to spend his retirement making money and playing golf. That just wasnt what nixon chose to do in his retirement. Cspan heres what he said about general eisenhower, who put him on the ticket in 52 he was very charming and warm socially, but he was a hard ass he had to be to lead the allied victory in europe. He was a tough sob. As you know, he didnt endorse me in 1960 until he absolutely had to. That was pretty devastating to my campaign because everyone loved eisenhower, and there i was, running a very close race against kennedy. Well, i guess he was just protecting himself, but it wasnt really the most loyal thing to do. Guest i think that what eisenhower had done in 1960, by waiting so long to endorse nixon, really hurt nixon, because nixon felt that he had been a loyal soldier to eisenhower from 1952 to 1960, that he had served him well. Nixon felt so indebted to him because eisenhower really gave him his first Foreign Policy lessons, sent him around the world and so forth. So i think that nixon he valued loyalty so much, and when eisenhower didnt express it when nixon thought he should have, he was disappointed. Cspan you tell a story about a visit by pat buchanan a call from pat buchanan around the whole 1992 race. How close were they . Guest well, buchanan and nixon went way back. Buchanan had been a speechwriter for president nixon in the white house. And whenever nixon needed red meat to throw to the conservatives, he always called on buchanan to write those speeches. Nixon said to me that Patrick Buchanan is an intellectual genius and he respected buchanans ideological purity and buchanans unwillingness to compromise on his principles. But he disagreed with almost everything buchanan stood for once buchanan became a political candidate. Nixon disagreed with his isolationist and his protectionist strains, much as he did with ross perot. And he disagreed with much of him on the social agenda as well. Nixon was pro choice. In fact, he thought that the abortion issue was such a private issue that the government should not be involved in the debate at all. So even though he respected buchanans unwillingness to compromise on his principles, he thought that those same principles would keep him from ever being elected in a general election. Cspan but he came to visit and you played a role. Guest he did, yes. It was an interesting scene. Patrick buchanan and his wife shelly came to see president nixon early on, pretty early on in the campaign, for advice. And they entered the office, and nixon took them into the office, and they were in there for between 15 and 20 minutes. And i was sitting at my desk, and i heard nixons voice come over the intercom on my desk, and he asked me to come in and meet the buchanans. And i thought it was going to be just a very perfunctory introduction and then i would leave the office, but i was wrong. Nixon asked me to sit down and he turned to me, and he said, monica, why dont you tell pat what you think he should do. And i thought to myself, oh, my god. Nixon is not doing this to me, but he was doing it to me. So i told pat buchanan that i thought that i had respected him very much for his entry into the race and for the fact that he was unwilling to compromise on his principles, because thats very rare on the american political scene today, and that i respected what he had done for the race. Hed really energized it and, in some ways, forced president bush to confront issues that he may not otherwise have done. But at that point in time during the campaign, i thought that buchanan and the Republican Party would be better served by having him leave the race. And i said that even if i thought that if buchanan had political aspirations in the future for example, if he wanted to run again in 1996 that he should leave the race now, before too much of the responsibility of blame would be pinned on him for a bush defeat. Cspan what was their chemistry then . Guest oh, it was very good. It was very good. They had a very cordial, warm relationship. Cspan you also have an excerpt where he tells you about Lyndon Johnson showing him the taping facility in the white house. Guest oh, that was a great. Cspan when did this happen . Guest . A great scene. Im not sure. I cant remember off the top of my head. You mean when nixon said it to me or when. Cspan no, when. Guest when it happened . Cspan when it happened. Guest oh, it was shortly after nixon was elected president. And usually, the outgoing and the incoming president meet, and they talk once about whatever issues are on the table. But for nixon, he and Lyndon Johnson met several times. And he said, we had so much to talk about. We had the war in vietnam, we had the russians and nuclear disarmament, all of these great issues to talk about. And he said, but the first time i got to the white house, one of the first things Lyndon Johnson did was take me up to the family residence. And he took me into the president s bedroom, and he got down on all fours. He was on his hands and knees. This was the outgoing president of the United States showing the incoming president of the United States underneath the bed. He said johnson lifted the bedspread and he swished his hand underneath the bed, and he was referring to the listening devices that kennedy had installed under the beds. And he said, dick, theyre voice activated. And i said to him, my god, that must have been an unbelievable scene. And he said, you know, it really was. cspan weve got another quote were running out of time. Gergen has no problem prostituting himself. Hes sucking up to power, and thats really all hes ever done. Hes good, but hes no loyalist clinton will be making a huge mistake if he thinks gergen is there to help him. Hes there to help himself. He can handle the media. He was ok with us. Some say that he pulled me, ford and reagan to the center. He did nothing of the kind. He didnt move me anywhere. Guest he respected david gergen in terms of his abilities as a political operative and in dealing with the media, and sort of crafting an image for the public to see. But he also thought that, politics being the cynical business that it was, that gergen had been an opportunist. But he didnt fault him for that. He understood that that was all part of the game. Cspan correct me if im wrong, but he didnt like jim baker at all. Guest no, he did not. Cspan and why . And it comes through page after page. Guest yeah. Hed simply thought that james baker had no business in Foreign Policy, that he had no training in Foreign Policy. And he often said about people engaged in Foreign Policy, whether it was james baker or warren christopher, that they dont know anything and what they do know is wrong. And he also thought that baker was preventing him from giving Foreign Policy advice to president bush. He felt that baker resented the fact that nixon had bushs ear and baker wanted to be the sole adviser to president bush on Foreign Policy. Cspan what is your ultimate goal personally . Guest well, im not quite sure. I know that im working on a second volume of this, and id like to continue observing and writing about american politics. Cspan do you ever want to run for an office . Guest i dont rule out any option. Cspan did you learn that from Richard Nixon . Guest i did, indeed. Cspan if you ran for an office, what kind of an office, of all the ones youve seen, appeal to you . Guest i think an executive position, perhaps governor. Cspan heres what the book looks like. Its called nixon off the record, and our guest has been its author, monica crowley. Thank you very much. Guest thank you very much