control or whatever issue between the two powers and they sure did anabelle manon afterwards to be good to on what they said exactly to each other on friday. it turned out committee spent a lot of time complaining about the coverage. they're tough on jackie and other things. macmillan who was a generation older said russia dos. it doesn't matter. other things to worry about. kennedy said that's easy for you to say, harold. i was elected as the press said your wife is a drug. i would simply say you should've seen her mother. it is a certain thing they would give you an a idea what these people were like. >> up next, historian hugh howard from the point of view of james madison and someone not the same. the decision to declare war and the succeeding battles on land and vs america but it tug-of-war for mid-independence. this is just under an hour. >> hello, book friends and welcome. thank you so much for coming to the book often assigned berkshire evening. as a melon or nearly 40 years of business, we are peace here at the book laughter potiphar fiction section. they represent books we've read in the whole ballgame attention from comments. we often ask each other come as to what are you reading? and when told me ask, staff it? may be or, yeah. even though hugh howard and i are best friends are down more than a few beers together over the years and have written many chairlifts side-by-side, doesn't follow that with staff take his excellent new book. i did it because it is in fact an excellent book. more on that in a moment. hugh howard got his book work in a new york for various publishing houses for over 10 years as an architectural historian. he wrote a series of articles for "the new york times" from which became the basis for the first book, preservation of progress. over the ensuing years you've written a dozen books on american architecture, art and history. happily for us, he and his wife as soon as up to columbia county in 1981 were chronicled efforts remodeling an old colonial in history at the book, how streams. since then, minus other projects he turned aside to thomas thomas jefferson industrialism architect and as an inspiration to other early american architects in his book, dr. campbell and mr. jefferson. in in the painter's chair can be brought to light the founding fathers of american painting and the elusive george washington. more recently, along with his longtime collaborator, photographer roger straus gummi wrote the houses of the founding fathers in the book of the same name. he and roger are hard at it again in a sequel of sorts to be called houses of the presidents. i so envy hugh, his research trips. you should ask him sometime about his visit to bill clinton's lawyer bedroom. he turned his attention to the work 1812 of of his new book, "mr. and mrs. madison's war: america's first couple at the second world war of independence." published by bloomsbury book and a history book club of the month. most of us i suspect have a school remembrance of francis scott key, george washington and that's about it. it's a much more complicated affair. numerous fronts at a time of considerable political division. we yankees wanted nothing to do with that war. what a fascinating and diverse cast of characters. chief among them were not a diminutive and a vivacious and cunning wife, dolley. arguably the first power couple. no doubt be a bonus can learn much from james and dublin. perhaps they have. a pivotal moment in our nation's history as america's beasties on all sides fight to maintain its independence from sources seemingly too huge to a pal. the recall than they did. he was a concept that we feel independent bookstores left standing fully appreciate. thanks to c-span, look tv who are here this evening, be sure to check out the schedule or find out when this event will be held. will be telecast. q. laufer remarks come after which we'll take questions and of course will sign copies of his book. also, copies of hugh spoke will be available on the website, the book loft.com. i assume all cell phones are authentic and when you do have questions, please just remember to wait a moment and someone will bring a microphone to you if you do. haviland ni and the entire staff at the book loft are very pleased to welcome our friend and neighbor and fellow bookie, hugh howard. hugh. [applause] >> good evening. it's wonderful to be here and i think eric for those kinds words and mark and alec and all the other folks here at the book loft and that was independent stories. and it's been more important in this world. for those who enjoy the process of browsing, i think the bookstores, whatever the merits. i think i'm for being here, but also to tell us their wares. to begin nine, a question partly the answer is because i can read a calendar. this is 2012 and therefore the bicentennial of the war of 1812 and an anniversary as a kind of doppler effect. and there's a big loud sound of everything happening. and i was really hoping i could catch that moment. and to judge from the folks we have here, i see maybe it's working. what has happened is my curiosity. i think other people it is a war that kind of tends to blur. if you ask any casual student in history about dilution of the civil war and many other conflicts at the 20th century, you probably did a pretty good dancer. you ask about the revolution, 30 of the declaration of independence, the shot heard around the world. we've got valley forge, all kinds of great links, stories we all know. and they come pretty easily to mind. but what the war of 1812 was rather a different matter. and i've asked some questions repeatedly over the last few years and that the war has a remarkable moments come as a great stories of the great heroes, for the most part the war asserted that no man land when it comes to our memories i believe. so i wanted to do some in about that. a third reason for doing this book was that deciding what to write next isn't always the most obvious thing. i come up with ideas sometimes the sum of them pan out and some of them don't. but the pattern is basically i do some homework, usually with original sources. i want to find some pain that hasn't been said by a bunch of other people and i want to find some team based upon what the participants way back in time experience. when i have a little bit of a handle on the subject, i put a few words on paper. and after a while, it's always a moment when i either drift off and move to another set to all right now i want to read this book. and when mr. and mrs. madison's war happen when this paragraph came to me more or less than the moment. picture a president looking morosely at the berlin of two of his nation's most iconic buildings. he mourns their loss, burned as they were in an act of international terrorism. a war declaration is based on false intelligence and the promise is filed up and easily accomplish victory. unfortunately, the conflict will turn into a long fall that divides the country, empties his treasury at least none of the partners feeling fan. now consider the president was james madison. the building is the capital of the presidents house in the year 1814. aren't history's actors entrance. sometimes can be oddly contemporary. but back to 1812. the more i learned, the more intriguing and confusing was the subject. for example, the name of the war, the war of 1812 is something of a misnomer. indeed it was declared in june of 1812, was spot to the 1812, and in 1815 was a 32 month war. for another example, the biggest single military victory with the battle fought after the war was over, after the treaty of peace was signed. in orders to the united states, the messenger had to climb on the boat, sailed to england, climb on another boat, sailed to new york and another carriage and another carriage after that all the way to washington d.c. that took approximately seven weeks, during which time the british attack andrew jackson and his then at new orleans and all the hickory just plain demolished a couple thousand british soldiers. so it is in some sense hardly surprising that people don't remember this war given the sequence of events. and by the way, the treaty that ended the war was left entirely out of the treaty and andrew jackson. and that is john quincy adams by the ray standing at center. the treaty can be phased out which is status quo antebellum, that is the way things were before the war. very little change that in some way psychologically and politically an issue. and while this may not have proved a memorable work on my way to make the case is nonetheless a very more in shaping the american character. to put it in more contemporary terms, we were being bullied and we stood up for ourselves. it was david and goliath and although we didn't knock to the ground, the world's expert tatian and her of self-confidence was altered as a result of the war. it think it might be useful to explain mr. and mrs. madison in the title. partly it's a function of chronology as the war began and is a declaration that began at. so he got the blame and eventually whatever credit airways. in new england, as eric alluded to, no one really wanted to go to war would interfere with the trade and politicians in the east as the region was known by most merchants in the way new england pamphleteer quickly dubbed the conflict, mr. madison's war. although no warrior, not a cent was small, sickly and intellectual by nature. his voice sounded fragile. he was always dressed in black, but the name of the war, his name stuck to that war. the first american writer to make a living off of his books describe madison is a withered little apple jar. the president madison had come to think going to the war was necessary. he ran a span, secretary of state for two terms and by the time the war came around to seeing a dozen years of outrage and at the risk of sounding like i'm teaching two this past, anybody ready to take the u.s. history? madison had for centuries going to war. first there was press. maybe remember that word. in the midst of a long war has a nasty habit of helping themselves to sailors off the decks of american ships. some of them wearing the british are gone awol, the loss for americans. more than 5000 american soldiers in the years before this war. the second reason the british had limited themselves to sailors either, but they've taken shapes, within a thousand ships confiscated the cargo. the navy was the most powerful in the world, dennis behave in the high seas. madison's third reason for war was evidence that the british employed agency style. they didn't like it then, they don't like it now. fourth, it was alleged that the british were stirring up the indians. they were close, and didn't come into current use until the 1960s. in this declaration of war, madison referred to the warfare of the savages of the northwest territory. he blamed the english for causing trouble, certainly to some degree it was true. that's what the support of a new faction in congress, cold war hawks a rationale for. they probably didn't hurt that the people around madison told him that taking canada with you and easy in fact his mentor, jefferson predicted the capture of canada would be a mere matter of marching, which makes good alliteration, but unfortunately bad suit. it didn't play out that way at all. next i'm delighted to say i must talk about. i knew when i wrote this book i wanted to tell it from the human perspective and ib mr. madison, but also mrs. madison, all of which meant i got to spend a couple years hanging out with todd madison and she was great. this machine painted by gilbert stuart and 1804. she's still pretty young in this picture. i think 36. and if you excuse the anachronism, she was a bit of a babe, unafraid of displaying her decor touch. but let's look at it. her is direct, silly sheep. when she met james in 1794, she was recently belittled her if she was 43, world not political philosopher and author of the constitution and still lived with his parents. [laughter] she was 17 years younger pitchers stood taller, handsome, black hair, striking good looks that literally turn heads on the streets. as a team from you might say they're ready for prime time. in this picture perhaps you can sense her personality. and i think i can see why washington having blister has been found mrs. madison more to his taste. he knew her with the term first lady to come into use in 1848 by madison's funeral. refers to her as first lady. so is actually going to care drives. she made no attempt an answer her admirer she was perfect. as irving said of her, mrs. madison is a fine, portly buxom dame with a smile and a polite word for everybody. when james was secretary of state, dolley was the president services. jefferson to his widower. and she was under way to becoming a central figure in washington society from a role she took on full-time letter has been to the oval office march 4, 1809. she wasn't the lindsay woolsey stored in one admirer observed an evening of her has been swearing-incommissioners that a queen queen. she adopt good for fashion of a strip of silk fabric, to report feet in length above her head. james who admitted to sleeping poorly looked pale and exhausted but affable to everyone. however, mrs. madison did more than the cray. for 16 years she will benevolently over washington society, welcoming a political friend and foe alike. so many came to her so-called trying to turn madison's presidency were known as grievous. she was unknown and probably more widely loved and her husband. in fact in south carolina, the man james madison was heard to remark after the votes have been counted. i was beaten by mr. and mrs. madison. they might even have a better chance alone. taken together i decided james and dolley madison had different but complementary as and to provide unique ways of telling the story, hence the title, "mr. and mrs. madison's war." now, to tell the story of the war of 1812 would take eight hours rather than the minutes we have here, but i would be remiss if i didn't tell a couple of war stories are the conflict did produce some legends that are essential, even if not everyone necessarily assist these two stories with the war. for example in the early weeks of the work, 18-pound british cannonballs bounced off the home of the u.s. constitution ship built right here in the states as he makes a of the u.s. navy and i'm guessing more than a few people in this room have walked this tax. on august 19, 1812 the constitution wanted decisive victory when he wanted this should produce two minutes on captain and term a perfect, unmanageable rat. they also wanted to name that. the ship of courses made of iron. now that was a great day for the u.s. navy history. going to read you another story of american sailors breaks in the pages of my book. the true great ships were well out of boston harbor under easy sail in the midday sun on the tranquil sea, the hms shannon led the uss chesapeake. but this is a pursuit in name only. as a captive scourge passes understanding that the ships would square off in a fair fight. at the stroke of 4:00, some seven miles separating the strips, americans fired a gun. british captain ordered the topsails, flowing to shannon's progress. by half past five: the chesapeake was closing fast. those ships steered in the wind, moving barely fast enough to main pain and the opponent came down on machine is starboard quarter at speeds of up to seven knots. it might have passed the stern and opened fire, that the american captain chose not to attempt to maneuver. again, an unspoken gentleman's agreement honored. the two ships would fight on an equal terms. this was to be an artillery duel at close range with the ships sailing nearly side-by-side, separated by a mere 15 yards. there were 20 miles east of boston with the chesapeake ranged upon the shannon and 10 minutes before 6:00. the american cat didn't, james barnes and even i should float, the ship and her fire and rain, broke standing order for his crews to shoot at americans for on the chesapeake. the first to fire and the second report before the gunners on the chesapeake replied. thereafter the thunder of the next six minutes to ships exchanged rueful broadsides. and then heard the deafening boom of the canon the crackles and pops of small apps fire. the hellish cannon fire and blow, blasted into the backs of other ships. don't try, fire into the quarters in the mail domain back main deck and a quarter deck of the ship is yours. kill the man and the ship is yours. on those ships come in many man file for a rifleman either breaking shot in the chesapeake is the man who took his place served the same fate. brown shot beheaded a lieutenant in an explosion of bone and brain. to midshipman circa outright. another had a big runoff in the opening minutes of the action can occur at the chesapeake sustained at least 100 casualties from a third of them died when they felt. aboard the shannon, more than 50 men were dead or wounded. clearly visible from atop sky captain lawrence and his uniform needed me pretty targets. he could no longer stand without bracing himself, but he issued orders refusing to be carried below. as great canister and solid shot, the chesapeake's momentum carried her beyond her guns with aaron the shannon. her had sales damaged in a sailing master dat, she fell off her port into the path of the shannon. captain lawrence called for a boarding party, but the british were quicker. the ships collided. captain stepped from the drilling of the ship onto the chesapeake and then leapt onto the deck of the chesapeake. before captain lawrence could order a counterattack, in other shots struck this one into the scoring. he staggered and fell, calling to his men, fire away, lads. several american sailors that the british command was forced with the chaplain discharges pistol, but missed the british captain. struck him in the face of this cutlass, forwarded the pipe from a second assailant committed two other attackers drove him to death. went clubbing him with a musket, did they won't be not a section of this goal and a portion of his brain. in the rain came brooks aid. another reddish balance the captains had. he bounced in and out of consciousness as the men overwhelmed the americans. another wave of british marines came aboard the american ship under the chesapeake shoemaking crewman below decks and secure the hashes. captain lawrence, despite his wounds, still issued commands. don't surrender the ship your order. the ship surgeons came to him. he sent them away to tend to the wounded man who arrived before him. i can wait my turn he insisted he but upon hearing the quiet zone ship's guns issued them to fight faster, to fight the ship until she sinks. even when another wounded officer was scary but this had greeting profusely companies he brought it seem possible. they had carried her. but lawrence remained consistent. don't give up the ship, don't give up the ship. a british lieutenant, his countrymen in full control of the back that are to hold down chesapeake scholars and a waste of the british flag in its place. captain james lawrence who lived three days before he died of his friends, a few doubts were expressed, seeking out her up and fighting the day. but many much louder extolled his hair with them was soon offered by the likes of secretary of state, james monroe and washington and the society in new york. but the most pathetic was spoken in baltimore. the inspiring words of the illustrious clients, don't give up the ship. be the eventual eternal model of america. in fact, lawrence's friend soon raised dependent on his just launched ship on the waters of lake erie. the ship was the uss lawrence may not easily captain lawrence had been sown with his favorite phrase, which subsequently became the model of the u.s. navy, don't give up the ship. ironically, and horrific loss both of an american hero and a rallying cry of american forces. now, i don't have any video of lawrence from the war of 1812. in my minds eye, i can envision a movie trailer that hollywood sells us on upcoming defeat and the highlights would have to include the battle of baltimore, a crucial conflict with the citizens of the city existed at the land and sea force. the bombardment of the royal navy was observed by the sun-times poet who was held captive on the ship in the harbor. he recorded what he saw in a poem titled but his first publication at fort mchenry was someone else put it to music and renamed it the star-spangled banner. on the horseback we have to jump cut to the president's house dolly is awaiting james return. which is the only time the president has been at the front during a war. only mr. madison did not return. instead, retreating soldiers can cream through the town. we have to pld here of dolly looking down from the high window in the nation's largest house. for days she's been packing the papers of james along with the red velvet curtaining w, waiting and wondering until a messenger arrives. it's a freed slave james smith that bring the word they must flee. she can't at least until she deals with george. because you see, although she can hear the boom of cannon from the room was of the president use house. she fused to leave unless she is arranged a life-size portrait portrait of george washington. ever political savvy she recognize it is would be a prize for the invaders. she says later, if it were to full in the hands of the enemy the capture would allow them a great finish. two servants set to the task of freeing the portrait. it was huge. with their permission, they hack away at the deck are decorative frame with a hatchet. only then can we cut to the ceacialg on the street scape and watch her i depart. she trusted it to safety to two friend where they put it in a barn. it would make a great scone in a plan. if i were planning a movie, i would convey in the copy in the 21st century term she was a little bit hot. james was a little bit nerdy. andrew jackson became a big win for new orleans. but more seriously, we must grapple with the substance of the war. as americans, we put a premium on winning. which may help explain why the war of 1812 became the "forgotten war." it's an unusual case from which no clear winner emerge. when i recently read about johnson talking to his -- i think ambassador of south vietnam henry, and saying i'm not going to do down in history as the first american president to lose a war. i mumble under my breath, that ship sailed. because james madison already lost a war, at least, sort of? which prompted me to think about winners and losers and ask a question. who won the ar of 1812 anyway? although it may seem one candidate is -- [inaudible] let me explain. in a dome-headed misreading what the neighbors were thinking, many americans before the war talked themselves in to think that the canadian would welcome an invading american force. it wasn't only jefferson the speaker assured madison that a malicioussha of kentucky are a loan exe i want to place canada at the feet. quite a lot incorrect as it happened. when it came to the american innovation they did not welcome them as liberators. and a three-pronged innovation of canada proved failure. in august of 1812, united states surrendered to a smaller force. it was at the -- [inaudible] in october same year, american forces was captured on canadian soil. in november, major general assault on montreal sended in a tremendous treat in friendly exchange of fire. in short, the british forces more than held their own throughout the war. perhaps it can be said that in a supporting roll, the can man i -- canadians were indeed vict or it use. a group who didn't win were the american indians. the settlers approaching upon their lines, many tribed sidedded with british before the war began. then senator andrew jackson along with many others in washington city believed the native americans had been excited to war by the secret agency of great britain. with the ongoing fear among westerners what the lexington kentucky reporter called the scalping knife and the tom hawk of the indian savages. they found themselves doing battle with william henry harris in the northwest territory. later the general andrew jackson after he took charge of the forces in the south. the karmassic wellington of the indian he was called fell at the battle of teams. after a massacre of massacre in which we recall abby a landed baseballed of red strike creeks a jackson-lead campaign cull man nateed in march at the battle. one result of jackson's victory was that the creeks were forced to see some 20 million acres for white settlement. the american indian was the biggest loser. native setbacks during the war proved to be hard many decades to come. another loser was the federalist party. to president madison, the federalist, the party of the late alexander hamilton and george washington was a disloyal opposition. they voted 39-0 again the war declaration in june of 182 does that sound familiar, by the way? i think the republicans in our own congress employed a -- in truth mitch mcconnell had nothing on him. anyway the federalist opposed war funding in congress in their own region, the opposition to war extended such gesture to continue to trade with the enemy and the refew sam of the governor of massachusetts to commit the men to war. as madison's kommendant observed montana and -- [inaudible] in a final act, the body of new england assembled behind closed doors what became to be called the heart ford convention. the stated purpose was to move forward a radical reform toward the national compact. it was an open secret they were advocating withdrawal from the union or an alliance with britain. the convention didn't succeed to create any kind of radical action. the residence lotions they produced were politics. however, the taint would poison their party and by the time of the next presidential election in 1816 within the federalist party seized to wield any political power in washington. the electorial count was 183 for james monroe. for generation, the nation would in effect have but one party in the wake of this. the democratic republicans. federalist party died during the war of 1812, of a self-inflicted wound. now, how about the bra tannic majesty and mr. madison. either of their countries be called victorious? well, the much flaunted relationship navy was shown to be vulnerable in the sixth -- fought the ship to ship. that the tiny american navy won five. and ending the illusion that the majesty's navy was unnuivel. we didn't do a good job of protecting or capitol and witnessed the burning of the nation's public burnings of a few hundred men on the british side. which in short form is to say that some wars are won, others lost, but still others like the war of 1812 really ended when the combat ens both bloody pack up and go home. that's what happened at the end of the war of 1812 given how the our most recent war has evolved. it's become less on winning and more on going home. maybe we should make a particular attempt to look again at the war of 1812 and the forgetfulness it seems to have gendered. as an aside, it's not incident tal that i dedicated it president then and now. all that said, there were outcomes one might say gains that served american interests. with the return of peace in europe. with the signing of the treaty of gept trade was restored. ships parted daily around the war. a west ward bomb was on the way in united states. there was new unity idolized by james and dolly madison. there was james himself. they left washington riding in tide a popularity in political of 1817, and madison's successor james monroe upon taking officer took tours of the north and south calling if the era of god feeling. the fighting had been launched out of the perception as henry clay expressed that war was as necessary to america as a dual is to young officer to prevent his being bullied and elbowed in society. while the american beledge rains had not advantage wiz are wished the u war of 181 did bully the confidence of the nation. according to one ambassador the war has dpifn americans what they essentially lacked app national character founded on a glory common to all. ensuing decades with policy such as the monoron doctrine they begin to demonstrate the confidence in a belief that the united states had an essential role to play in the larger world. that, i think, is the most significant legacy of the war. thank you for listening. [applause] do we have any questions? and we have a microphone that i think needs to be deliver to the questioner and it's on the way. it was just a second. please. >> very interesting. you call this mr. and mr. madison's war. go what extend to do you this was it was madison's initiative to go war. there was a premise. it was fought 5 years after the constitution. it was last big event done by the constitutional before folks twhrunt at the founding took over. of it the first and last time that congress actually followed the rules and congress debated and delaired war before we got started fighting. it so but you say you this was it was nonetheless madison's initiative. >> i think he certainly road a wave of fairly wide spread public opinion, that is to say football you got out of the north out of the east-so called -- [inaudible] you certainly found lots and lots of folks who felt that it was necessary to go to war to save face, to do this. and there was support in the congress who was a great shift with the election of 1810 many of the war hawks came to power. i think that was part of it. in in no sense was it his idea. the notion of going to war had come up before in 1807, the same ship cease chesapeake was attacked unexpectly by a british ship. at that time there were many calls for going war. the idea was in the air. it was known seemingly easy solution. and the british didn't seem to be interested in negotiating -- terms. it wasn't clearly his idea. he was the one who finally decided it was a necessity. he was the one who dictated the document that was delivered to congress and subsequently turned in to what was ratified as declaration of war. is that an answer to your question? anymore questions? [inaudible] by having that poll began rampaging in europe at the same time at the war of 1812 going on? >> interesting question. >> i think that certainly was at beginning of the war, i think that was a major issue. however, that poll beganned a -- advocated the world of the unpleasantness the land war in america came thraft. so many of the duke wellington trained member arrived here and marched on washington and did the damage they did that of course subsequently turned back at baltimore. i think that it's pretty hard to separate both the causes of the war and the events of war from what was happening in europe. because one of the principle reasons that the president was taking place the british were out of sailors of their own. they needed more men. they had to get their men whenever they could. they had been at war for almost between the years by this time with the french. the simple answer is that it's impossible to celebrate the french war from the war and that integrated in implicated way. i'm not sure that's a good answer. but there it is. question? [inaudible] for poem who are interested mostly in navel aspect of it, the fact that adams had started building a navy which jefferson did not particularly support but during the war he wrote to adams of how proud he was of their navy. right. there is a thesis that the six shipses that were built which the british could not deceit repeatedly on lake ear reconvinced wellington that could never win. that lead them to being willing to make a peace. would you have a comment on that the sis? >> i don't -- actually i know there's a letter that wellington wrote because i think he was -- after the wellington forces prevailed and that poll began was beaten, wellington was administrated to france. i know, there was a letter he wrote back to london when his advise was solicited adds what to be shown in america. i'm paraphrasing here but more or less it would be silly to pursue the war. you're not going win. it came in the wake of the other battle, which came in the wake of battle of baltimore. both which were significant american victories. i think those are more likely to be -- to have impacted his decision to lead to the disrecommendation if you will, to the prosecute the war further than on the other licks. but there's no question that wellington's opinion carried a rot of weight and that was solicited and that the peace negotiation in gent the character of the negotiation sifted at more or less the same time. [inaudible] >> if you can tell us a little bit about the romantic mind set that i learned about in school about the alliance between andrew jackson and his pirates in the battle of new orleans. what's true and what's ? >> i think a very interesting story. and i'm sure there are those who know a lot more than i do. but what i know is that early in jackson's time in louisiana he wanted nothing more than -- he had rather unpleasant terms to describe them. however, jackson was nothing if not pragmatic. the i rates brought a number of different skills and also an intimate knowledge of a very complicated watery terrain. i think that for reasons of strategy, for reasons of personnel, for the simple he wanted to prevail, he made a bargain with the pirates. i don't think he was happy about it. maybe he was happy after they did extremely well in the battle of new orleans. i think that an do you jackson did not hold them in high regard but founded the pragmatic solution to a problem he had enough men not enough intelligence and skills. he brought those things together. i see a question here. so dolly madison -- [laughter] the way you describe her. she sounds as if she might have been the first of the modern first ladies, and i'm just curious what you would say about the potential first ladies right now. who do you think is the most like dolly? >> interesting. well . >> whatever it was you said before. >> i don't think there's any question she is the model for the activist is not a word -- you know, but to participateing first lady as an example of her time when she was a young woman and mrs. adams was abigail was the first lady and martha washington was the first lady. she knew those people. [inaudible] and their weekly ends they welcome the general public, they sat people had come up and politely bow effectively in order to get the attention of the first lady. when dolly set up, she mixed. she mingled. she walked around. i don't know if she kissed cheeks or not. she was definitely a assessable, friendly, warm person who among other things welcomed both sides of the political -- all sides of the political spectrum to her squeezes. which, clearly was a force for a political good and it would be a very nice thing if we could a little bit more of that today. i'm not placing any blame on michelle obama. we have a or alreadyized situation in washington. who would be the best at this? i guess i don't know enough about the first ladies. although one has to admire a variety of things about any number of them. i guess i don't know enough about contemporary first ladies to offer you a good answer. [laughter] i see another question in the back. >> i wonder if you accept a copy of the book to the president and mrs. obama yet? [laughter] >> good idea. i adopt think we have. but we should do that. [inaudible] >> okay. any others? one more. i have to use a microphone. >> it's for the benefit. >> you mentioned how you did some of your early research, but go back step before that, how did you even pick the subject to do research on? >> well, it was partly a consequence of looking at the calendar and saying, hmm twl, 1812, and the maybe an opportunity to get some attention for this subject. and also, my previous books, the last book i wrote was about george washington. one -- that was about thomas jefferson. there's a kind of logic to writing about m federal era. i know, a bit about federaller rather. it was in the general vicinity and the crin enologist fit. i did know a lit about dolly madison which attracted know the summit. it makes it a little bit more interesting. traditional -- we talk about spouses, we can talk about children and slaves. we can talk about architecture. and i think that taking this sort of more broad based approach. i thought you could make the history a little bit more interesting. the public buildings in washington were burned except for the old brick building which was inhabited by the u.s. marines. and the common daunt at the tile. rumor [inaudible] nobody know the absolute truth. can you shed any light on that? >> i'm worning for we're tabling -- talking about one building was spared was the patent office. the reason because the head who is william who architect among other thing. he executed the first zone in the capitol. he went and stood in front of the building you said you can't do it it. it would be a crime against humanitarian because it's not a political place and not about politics. but i've never heard the story about the marine building. so i'm afraid i can't certainly shed any light on that. >> thank you. >> well, thank you all for coming. [applause] competition in a short video students will answer the question what's the most important issue the president should consider in 2013? for a chance to win the grand prize of $5,000. and there's $50,000 in total prizes available. c-span student cam video competition is open to students grade sixth through tweft. go online for the rules. spend the weekend in ohio state capitol columbus as booktv, american history tv and c-span local contented vehicles look behind the scenes at the history and literary life of ohio's largest city. brows the rare books collection at ohio state university. the reason i -- show you a later edition of you lis sis that is extremely rare. 1912, the american government declared it obscene and orographic. the book was banned. people wanted to read it; however, and we have a copy one of the pirated edition. if you notice the spines, we have alice in wonde