this stage. of the best evidence is five countries have pulled it off and all of latin america and the rest of the countries in asia did not. they are not stupid people. . . the mid 90's that sort of illustrate the point you basically i sometimes described in brazil not now because the room gap is rapidly closing but described it as a middle-income country consistent and the poor country living in the same borders. that is not a high-growth environment over a sustained period of time. >> one left? >> yes. >> thank you. of i enjoyed the talk. what does china's demographic structure suggest for looking at the long-term growth trajectory and the long-term budget feed demand? >> it's a very good question. china's experts like peter dimond and jim and others that have advised the government so they are still in the window where the state balance sheet which is gigantic is big enough to sort of thwart but it's not going to last forever an uncharacteristically i think olivia would concur the tendency to move quickly when a problem is identified has not been demonstrated in the pension and social security area. they've had a problem for i don't know probably ten years and only now are they starting to sort of elaborate and make the universal systems -- -- [ringing] i will get it. [laughter] -- it is no where serious yet as it is in europe in terms of, you know, adjusting fiscal and other arrangements or japan or its in its most extreme form then it's on the horizon, and if they don't deal with a fairly early, it could slow them down. on china's growth trajectory, demographers are have different opinions and how they are aging growth. david bloom at harvard says if you make enough institutional adjustments including how long people work and how many transitions they make in their lifetime and so on what he may or may not think are realistic assumptions there's no reason to think the aging grows. and any fall-off from those institutional adjustments than multiple dimensions should get growth and in addition china is now in the lower end of the oecd spectrum that's somewhere like to decades that doesn't put them anywhere near us, 75,000 plus per person, but they are going to slow down on the catch up model starting fairly soon. they've probably got another slightly less than a decade of high growth the sometimes have experience and so that is what aging will slow them down. now to go back briefly to an earlier question, when we say china will get there with me in the advanced country lower end of the spectrum whether or not you can continue and become more like singapore and the country i lived in most time, italy, is a function of a whole different set of considerations which is trade-offs between incentives, labor markets and all the things we talk about among ourselves in the advanced country so that is a different set of considerations i think and i have no idea if china will make those choices and where they will end up in the advanced country hierarchy. >> have you perceive china as getting off its export growth? is this going to be something that natural or is that something that occurs? >> there's two parts to that. it's not natural, okay? they have to solve this problem on the aggregate demand household income side. if they are successful on the social insurance and securities side there will be able to lower the rate which is 30% and that will make a contribution, but you can't solve the problem with just the household savings rate and asian countries tend to say so why wouldn't that the store on that. it really has to do with income i think mostly come and then the question that both outside and inside worry about if the export sector the labor-intensive one that used to exist and is about to be replaced by high year value-added export sector and leave its significance to the domestic economy, then where are the 400 million people who still have to move to the urban area going to go? and the answer people frequently come up with is there isn't anywhere to go because there was the route into the modern economy and the upgrading of skills and so on. and i think that is wrong. i think the answer to the question of where they are going to go is to the massive service sectors that are going to be built in the massively expanding urban environments. it is a different route into the modern economy. but if that door way closes down, then you will get the thing people fear which is the dual economy structure where they are trapped and one of the reasons the chinese are a little bit cautious about the exchange rate mechanism and bias towards the undervaluation even for people outside who are sympathetic to the idea of managing that relative price is uncertainty about the effectiveness and speed of the sort of urban service sector as an observed mechanism, and i know they have huge fears of having a version of the persian versus poll where people move to the city not because there's open opportunity but because the opportunity has declined so dramatically that there is nowhere else to go. and we have seen that in other parts of the world. so scared to death of that and one of the reasons they drag their feet on dismantling the urban resident system is precisely because that essentially turns this whole process of urbanization over to the market and market forces incentives and it can go very wrong. >> thank you very much for having me. thank you. [applause] coming up next, book tv presents "after words," an hourlong program where we invite a guest hosts to interview authors. this week author erick stakelbeck on his latest book, "the terrorist next-door." the news host asserts the obama administration is concealing the true magnitude of the threat of terrorist attack on u.s. soil. he makes his case using interviews with covert operatives and people he says artur riss with links to al qaeda. he discusses his findings with former u.s. house representative and retial host fred grandy. >> host: >> after i read this book, i came across a few facts i want to run by you because i think it sets up the discussion pretty well padded according to some data i have just seen, there are over 1200 governor organizations across the country involved in intelligence, counterterrorism, and homeland security. we've got about 850,000 people with top security clearances, and the intelligence budget since september 10th, 2001, is now 2.5 times the size it was about 75 billion. yet if you read this book, you have to conclude that we are not intelligently assessing the islamist threat to this country. now all of that having been said what are we doing wrong? >> look, number one, first thanks for being here taking the time to do this. number one, we cannot identify the enemy. terrorism is only a tactic. there is a well-defined well-established ideology that motivates the terrorism. i described in the book i have sat down with al qaeda terrorist face-to-face, associates of osama bin laden who have told me we are not doing this because of poverty or because of the israeli-palestinian conflict. we are doing this because islami's courts text command us to do it. that is very politically incorrect this is no time to match words and this is not me singing it. it's the bad guys saying it themselves in this case at least we should heed their words at the first rule of the war know your enemy. this is something this administration and our government cannot wrap its head around. >> host: why not? first allows you point out and the chapter that you talk about how this is the ideology stupid, and you do point out that it's not illiteracy, it's not poverty, it's not the palestinian homeland. those are convenient ploy is for supposedly the growing islamic revolution or revival, whatever you want to call it. but what it always has been is a deep commitment to islam and from what i can tell strict islam. sharia law as you define it and let me ask you, you do a great description in this book of what it is. why don't you tell us what sharia law is and how it undermines all of the ideologies talked about? >> first of all this is the fundamental thing to the member, it is inherently incompatible with the u.s. constitution. >> that isn't what faizal says of ground zero on till he was somewhat demoted. why is that? if you've got people telling us that sharia law is compatible with the constitution, why? >> guest: sure via there's not only religious component to the sharia, this is an all encompassing ideological system that controls every aspect of the muslim's life and if they have their way it would also controls sifry aspinall muslim's left. the new freedom of speech, freedom of religion, women's rights out the window stoned to death under the sharia society choosing to leave to jews and christians, second-class citizens. that's only the beginning. there's also a mandate to wage a violent jihad conquests. but as a spiritual struggle as our friend who you mentioned would like to free met but jihad as a violent ideology of conquest. this is all mandated under the sharia law. >> host: okay if that is true and they are telling us that they are falling a strict adherence to a religion they all believe mandates sharia law and then why, and you talk about this in the book as well, why does our government and why does most of our media look at somebody like faizal shahzad work carlos blood cell abdul hakim mohammed involved in the shooting in little rock. why are the lone wolves? why do we continue to assume that, and i love this term, our self radicalized? >> the case is you mentioned, they are all part of a broad global ideological movement and that is another way. the subtitle of the book is how the government is deceiving you about the islamist threat and to frame these guys as loan extremists, which in every case be at fort hood, the christmas day underwear bomber, the times square bomber last may if every case the obama administration frames them it's as you say, lone wolves, extremists, no brard connection to the global movement where we had the ball has on exchanging e mails with on our al-awlaki, the al qaeda leader in yemen. we had the underwear bomber trained by anwar al-awlaki in yemen and the times square bomber inspired by al-aulaqi that trade with the taliban in pakistan, yes, there are broad flanks but there's a few things at work here. number one, a crippling political correctness, absolutely crippling. another thing quite frankly is that it is very difficult. say that islam is not a religion of peace. say sharia is a threat, that is a difficult thing to come to grips with, because that means you are at war with a good slice of the muslim population who does follow islam fundamentally, who does follow sharia to the teeth. that is a very scary thing to add it for our government. >> host: i want to go back to that because no less a person than george bush right after mine a legend says islam is a religion of peace. right after the close of a radical muslim walked into the airport in frankfurt and shot a couple of american soldiers, barack obama said islam is one of the world's great religions. my sense is we want to believe that because we are a tolerant people, but you've got quotes in this book, known terrorists and consider terse and collaborators who say no it's not, it's about submission. it's about jihad. if we do not believe their own words, how are we ever going to understand the threat? >> guest: we can't and that is the bottom line. we are starting off very politically correct off the bat. i like it. right up my alley. [laughter] if you are intellectually honest person, you cannot look at a five speed, is on's cortex. any intellectually honest person cannot look at them and say they espouse a a religion of peace. a person cannot look at the example of islam's profit, mohammed, and say that he was a man of peace and espoused peace. look at is on's history. kermit, older, this is not a religion of peace, and it's intellectually dishonest to say that it is. >> host: let me ask you this because the term that crops up in this discussion somewhere is moderate muslim, or if you prefer, personal jihad. and i want to go to a couple of people that you quote in this book, john brennan, the president's chief counterterrorism advisor and of course james clapper was the director of national intelligence. clapper said in front of congress muslim brotherhood, secular organization, kind of like the club of greater cairo. and of course, brennan has been saying jihadists a good thing because it's like a personal struggle. now, as you interview people, as you have studied this, if you take the average muslim immigrant to this country, do they believe that? or are they inclined to be scripted that says jihadists not a personal struggle it is a global struggle predominance and it's not achieved until people of the book, christians and jews and other non-believers are either submitting to us or our did. >> host: >> guest: not every muslim believes that. i work with many in washington, d.c. who don't want jihad, don't want sharia and they are truly moderate. but look, i point them out in the book that some 13 -- this is a key research poll. doesn't get more than pew. 13% of american muslims support suicide bombing in some shape or form. the number rises to 26% when we talk about young american muslims. that is problematic to say the least and if you estimate ten to 15% of the world's muslims which credible estimates show time and time again ten to 15% are radicalized and to follow the osama bin laden brand of islam you have 1.6 billion muslims in the world that is roughly 157 muslims. that is very problematic. moderate muslims in my experience and got less than they are brave. i worked with them but many times the moderates, the genuine muslim moderates i meet are muslims who do not follow circassia. they don't follow the koran fundamentally to the t come. i believe if you follow islam fundamentally the cortex to the teeth fundamentally you cannot be moderate because they are not moderate tasks to the text. >> you talk quite a bit about the somali community in the twin cities in minneapolis and st. paul growing, which has now been proven to be actively recruiting young men to work for al-shabaab, this a moly terrorist organization. but if you are not aligned and are a member of a mosque in the twin cities and you just believe what you just espoused, i'm going to take my faith and kind of hold it at arm's length or you're not an apostate? is that not a tough case to make inside the mosque, these enclave communities whether it is in minneapolis or shelbyville tennessee and other places you talk about here? how do you hold that view publicly and espouse it to others without some kind of reprisal from the religious infrastructure that your part of? >> guest: that is a great point and as you said, you do so at great personal risk. in the book i outlined several cases of genuine muslim moderates who are not only at task now in their community that were physically threatened one brave individual named jamal in tulsa oklahoma of all places, the heartland, tulsa, al qaeda carried out in new attack. this was 2007 for the release a new videotape threatening blood shed and he was outraged. he said these people giving muslims a bad name. so the next day he wrote an editorial in the tulsa world newspaper condemning al qaeda saying they distorted islam. well the very next day he went to his local mosque a large center in tulsa, the largest. he was confronted not only by average worshipers, but the mosque's leadership physically confronted him and threatened him, called him a traitor because he wrote an op-ed condemning al qaeda. he literally feared for his life. this is in the american heartland. that gives you an idea what truly peace-loving muslims are up against when they do speak out. >> host: i'm glad you brought up the question of mosques, because -- and this is a mother figure that just jumped out in this book. since about 2000 or 2001, we have gone from i think it will hundred mosques to about 2,000. the number of these religious sanctuaries is proliferating around this country at an enormous rate. in your view, are these legitimate religious sanctuaries , or are they battalions as they are actually describe in some of the islamic writings that were uncovered at the holy land foundation trial, or even though the prime minister of turkey had a poem that he used to quote before he became a legitimate -- greet moderate, but that said, mosques are battalions. which is it? are these now a place where a moderate muslim can either be brought into the fold and become a potential terrorist or somebody like carlos bledsoe who doesn't have any connection at all can be implicated, radicalized and turn on his own family and country? >> guest: absolutely. look in the book i describe how i have been in mosques from coast to coast in america and europe i've been in the mosques and interview diman thank i'm not just in an air-conditioned office in d.c.. these are my firsthand observations come experiences, and i have to tell you, far too many times in american mosques, which by the way it is estimated some 80% of american mosques have saudi funding behind them. it's very problematic because saudi arabia is the epicenter of this global jihadists train. 15 of the 19 hijackers at the refunding mosques, building mosques from coast to coast even though we can't build a church in saudi arabia. but look, i've been in the mosques, and the literature in many in this country, literally stand on the back made in saudi arabia. it comes from saudi arabia. it comes from a muslim brotherhood groups. i know we are going to talk about the brotherhood. this is right in the mosques, and to talk to these he moms and not in all cases but in many cases they can't tell you that they recognize israel's right to exist. they can't condemn hezbollah as terror groups. they can't say that sharia law is a bad thing for america, and this is a common strain in the mosques in this country, and real quick, i interviewed a member of the revolutionary guard corps. this is the elite, the most radical vanguard of the regime. he told me look, we ran operations out of the mosques in europe and the u.s. and i outlined several cases of terrorism arrests, terrorism funding coming from american mosques. >> host: this is the deep cover guy that you talk about in the book. >> guest: the reason i bring it up is because as you probably know, a the chairman and the homeland security committee in the house, peter king, has begun i think very gingerly a series of hearings on the radicalization of the american muslim community and has been vilified by the press and the organizations we will describe in a minute are tearing into him. but in your view, can we understand this threat? can we keep from being deceived without going into these mosques and finding out exactly how deeply involved they are insufficient because that's really what this is. and the last time i looked there was still a crime. >> guest: you can't have a firm grasp of what's going on in the muslim community, fred, if you don't have a presence. as intelligence in the mosques, you simply can't. a mosque is the center of the islamic community, and that's strategy for groups like the muslim brotherhood, and that's why you bring up those numbers. winstrol hundred mosques just ten years ago in america. that number has nearly doubled in just ten years. it's not a coincidence. the strategy for the saudis, groups like the muslim brotherhood, and i have seen this. i've been in the enclaves drop the west. they build large as we call them mega mosques, multimillion-dollar projects stretching over several acres, city blocks, that becomes the center of all the activity for the local community. it's more than just a place of worship. it's a meeting place in some cases a plodding place a mosque is built many times the property around it is bought. muslims move into the homes around the mosques and of a sudden the store fronts and everything is in arabic and you say this neighborhood change pretty rapidly. this has been the blueprint in europe and all of a sudden you have a self segregating islamic enclave within a major western city. not in all cases this has happened time after time i've witnessed it firsthand in great britain, places like sweden people would never believe there are no go zones for police in these large muslim enclaves in europe and even a place like deer born in america is developing into that, but the hot, the center of activity in the cases is yes, the mosque. >> host: all right. you mentioned that they are going out of the country. one of the ones you talk about is the islamic center of murphy's good tennessee. we've been fixated on the ground zero mosque in manhattan, large facilities in northern virginia. but this is on 52,000 square feet in a tiny suburb of asheville, all right? why? what is the strategy there because you spend a lot of time talking about this in the book, and this -- i had a guy from the defense department when i was going to a briefing on this tell me this is very much in keeping with what we used to call the war of position. you move through the countryside, you leave deposits of your belief and ideologies and infrastructure, and by the time you get to where you want to go, you have essentially got beach heads everywhere you want to be. is that what's going on here in your view? >> guest: i believe absolutely, fred, i do. the broad geographic scope, the mega moscow building in this country, murphy's third tennessee, this is the buckle of the bible belt. alaska broke ground on the first mosque, a rural wisconsin, northern kentucky, places you'd never expect and the key thing is the a very small muslim communities. murphy's third tennessee which i described in the book i was on the ground at the mosque, there's no more than 250 muslim families in the hole. yet they are building as you said a 52,000 square foot moscow over 15 acres of land, multimillion-dollar projects, absolutely massive. i was there on the ground and saw what they are going to do and there's multiple buildings. why? why do you need such a large structure for such a small community and that is the question in these projects are around the country. i investigated many of them and i outlined in the book. why? what is the endgame? what is the goal and i talk to the local activists and murphy's byrd and they said look, we feel like they are targeting us because this is kind of the center of the bible belt. nashville is a place where gospel music goes out, bibles are printed -- they feel like it is a direct premeditated assault on really the heart of christian america. >> host: if that's true why did the city council approved the mosque? is a dollars and cents, political correctness or combination of the two? >> guest: good question in its political correctness and ignorance. i interviewed the mayor of rutherford county tennessee where murphy's perot is located, and she didn't know the first thing about islam come about the muslim brotherhood, didn't know anything about the funding sources to the mosque because they have still not come clean about where the money is coming from, and it is a common theme in all of these mosque's going up, these controversial mosques. they can't tell you where the money is coming from coming and i saw the congregation and murphy's perot. this was the cab drivers, college students, some professional types. i hate to stereotype really i didn't see the means to raise millions of dollars. i mean, it just didn't seem like it was there. i see the same thing in a humble church community here in d.c.. i just didn't see it and i asked diman where is the money coming from. he wouldn't go on camera and told me it is all locally raised in such a small community not in affluent muslim community i just don't see it, fred, and you look at the saudi funding as i said, 80% and their must be a bigger force at work. it isn't conspiratorial it is just the facts. >> host: let's talk about the saudi money to be deployed out 80% of the mosques built in this country are probably getting some kind of infusion of wahhabi saudi money. if they are in essentially the money people, or the operation people the communication, public relations infrastructure, the so-called chief operating officers of this growing infrastructure in the muslim brotherhood is that fair to say? because i want to talk about the muslim brotherhood. you mentioned in the book but that seems to be part of the threat we either do not acknowledge or know about but won't talk about. >> guest: the saudis provide the money and the brotherhood provides the audit devotee. that's the way that it's sort of the past 40 to 50 years in the west. the muslim brotherhood who is ascendant now in egypt and may very well be in control in that country in the 1950's, 60's, the egyptian government where the brother offended egypt crackdown, killed several brotherhood leaders, are arrested them, executed them, some of the leading lights of the muslim brotherhood then relocated to saudi arabia, sought refuge from a safe haven, hooked up with the saudi government, and from there the brotherhood operatives flushed with saudi petrodollars spread out across europe, across america, the mosques were built. the enclaves were created. so, while the brotherhood and the saudis don't see eye to eye on some things without a doubt they worked closely in the islam west. >> host: does that mean their goal is to complete the islamization? i don't want to put words in your mouth, but in the book you indicate the goal is nothing less than putting the united states and for that matter the western world under sharia law which is absolutely unethical to the way we live our lives. >> host: not just the west, china, japan, the endgame for islamists be the muslim brotherhood or al qaeda or iran and hezbollah, shia, sunni, doesn't matter. the endgame is not just the states, but a world governed by sharia. it isn't just me saying that. that is a statement which i out line in the book. the endgame is a world governed by sharia. they would like to establish what they call the caliphate. that is basically an islamic superstate come all of the world's muslim nations together in one united bloc to take on the west and take on all infidels and subvert them to fill all of sharia. that is the endgame it doesn't matter whether it is a brotherhood, al qaeda, that is the shared in a game but the endgame is the same. >> host: if the muslim brotherhood is a kind of overarching holding company if you will of the start ideologies, would it be fair to say that some of their tactical units would be organizations like the council on the economic relations with the muslim student association or the north american islamic trust, you know these obviously because they are part of the holy land foundation trial proceeding, but how much or how little should we trust these organizations because from my experience, they are very astute politically on this country. they know exactly what to say and when to say it and how to take i think a legitimate criticism about a threat and turn it into a slide against the religion and culture which immediately gets americans to back off. >> guest: islam phobia. we've heard time and time from groups. the first thing you have to remember about the groups, the whole alphabet soup of the organizations who purport to be the spokesman for the community, the islamist society of north america, the muslim student association, all of these groups or a least 95% of them were named in the muslim government documents and the brotherhood's documents not just me saying that, it's their documents uncovered by our fbi actually a few minutes from where we're sitting in northern d.c. during the read of 2004 the fbi uncovered muslim brotherhood of documents and a northern virginia at the home of the leading american muslim brotherhood operative that names several of the groups you see on cnn, fox news, msnbc, purporting to be spokesman they identify them as, quote, our friends. friends of the brotherhood. these are subversive organizations that have no place in society. but why? >> host: why are they so good at getting deeply -- i want to talk of the level of infiltration here because this is something that the soviets the dreamed of but were never able to bring off however the infrastructure in law enforcement and the courts and education and the media and the the highest level of government if what you say in the book is true indicates that there are operatives almost everywhere we turn, how do you get rid of these folks and how do you begin that process because from what i can see, neither party in congress and certainly this administration or the previous administration has done anything but say how can we help? >> guest: number one a few things to remember. how they have been able to insinuate themselves into the halls of power, they don't look the part. the muslim brotherhood operatives in america are wearing suits and ties. they are western educated, well spoken, telegenic, they don't look like reading jihadists and the tactics are very different from al qaeda. tactics, the end game as i said is the same. sharia globally including here in america. but the tactics, the brotherhood is to be patient, very still feet. they will wait 100 years to of tenderable. al qaeda wants to blow you up now, tell you now. the brotherhood says wait a minute. we can do this through legal means by getting elected, buy getting a job as in the educational system, buy getting jobs in the media we can do this. the final stage of course is violent jihad when they are strong enough there is a reason of that osama bin laden, ayman al-zawahiri, khalid sheikh mohammed, all of these al qaeda before they formed al qaeda as young men they were members of the muslim brotherhood. the brotherhood is the gateway to the violent jihadists many young american muslims in america are discovering. >> host: right now and to meet this point earlier, you talk about the kind of hot jihadist come al qaeda come hesla, is that kind of a good cop bad cop scenario with the muslim brotherhood looking in impeccably dressed and well spoken and the nicest guy in the room essentials the sitting down with certainly president bush, president clinton and president obama, high levels of the defense department homeland security saying look, we just want to help cover community help you? and yet at the same time you've got to bin laden being killed and people say we are winning this war. to me there seems to be a very subtle subterfuge going on here that makes us think we are winning when we are not. is that true? >> guest: the global jihadists movant as osama bin laden just one part of it, al qaeda lives and thrives but you have the likes of the muslim brotherhood, you have the likes of iran, hezbollah and with the brotherhood in many cases you don't see them coming. if they gain power in egypt is not only that for israel, the northern neighbor but it's very bad for america because it will be the goal and i can tell you i was in israel in jerusalem meeting with government officials in february as mubarak was at the door to a recovery concerned to say the least that egypt will end up in the muslim brotherhood hand and you need look no further than the brotherhood spiritual leader the dalai named yousaf dewitt i know we are throwing a lot of names out -- he's a big star and has the biggest show on al -- al jazeera leader of the muslim brotherhood pity he said we will conquer the west. this is a guy with probably tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of humans who watched the show. muslims. he said we will conquer the west not through violent jihad but through he calls per fossilization. we will do it non-violently through demographics, demographic jihad and once we are there through massive immigration to the west we are building mosques, proselytizing that is how we are going to conquer the west. that's what they are saying so it's great that osama bin laden, one of the leaders of the violent wing of the jihadists ghana. but much broader than just him and much broader than al qaeda. this administration has tunnel vision. when they talk about the war montara i called the war on islamist fashion. the talk strictly about al qaeda. the brotherhood is the granddaddy of them all when it comes to the terrorist groups and they are only getting stronger and stronger. iran, another topic. hezbollah. it's broader than al qaeda. >> host: it seems the analogy that might work for people trying to figure out how the pieces fit is to assume in world war ii if we said we are at war as opposed to the nazis and hitler in other words there's a subdivision we are going after. it's fair to say that al qaeda and hezbollah and also to -- al-shabaab and hamas which is a direct ascendant of the muslim of the heart are just that. their children, the parent is the muslim brotherhood and yet we continue to focus on the cuts. >> guest: bin laden belongs to the brotherhood before al qaeda and they belong to that group for a reason. the brother hoadly is the groundwork and they leave the groundwork for al qaeda in its charter identifies itself and the muslim brotherhood. hamas is the brotherhood yet it seems to be asking israel to negotiate with them. but look, the brotherhood is absolutely the satellite organization, yet the obama administration has been a conscious decision to work with the muslim brotherhood. they have encountered them in egypt and they have to know that when mubarak was at the door that the biggest beneficiary would be the muslim brotherhood. they had to know that. any observer in the middle east and europe knew that the largest most organized most powerful opposition force was the muslim brotherhood. this administration thinks because the brotherhood isn't pulling any one not yet, that they can work with them and use them against al qaeda. but it wasn't just the administration. if you look at most of the mainstream reporting you've got the feeling there was a bunch of kids with blackberrys in the square on google and facebook to read the muslim brotherhood from everything i can tell is a very sophisticated political organization. republicans and democrats should be as in graded as these guys. so i think what i am hearing you say is after the euphoria of the overthrow is over it's the people on the ground in the organization that will finish the revolution. would you say that's going to happen in egypt? >> guest: absolutely. i think this revolution in egypt in some degree, to some degree took the brotherhood by surprise a bit. but once they caught on the call on quickly, and these yondah blackberry toting facebook lovingly egyptians, god bless them, they were quickly pushed aside the strongest most ruthless force in egypt is the muslim brotherhood, and they quickly worked through the system and they are getting stronger and stronger. we see reports every day even "the new york times" who trumpeted this as a great day for moderation, the great era of spurring evin they are publishing articles now warning about the rise of radical islam in egypt courtesy of the muslim brotherhood seeing the christian churches that burt to the ground, christians attacked. these are the fruits of some power in the brotherhood and the obama administration i will never forget the quote a few days after mubarak, robert against the former press secretary said we want all parties in egypt involved in the political process, including any and he specifically mentioned mom secular parties. hello? the muslim brotherhood. this is madness. >> host: i want to get into more of your thoughts on the arabs bring in a moment, but i didn't want to miss the opportunity to find out how a young 25-year-old free-lance reporter became so involved in domestic terrorism, the pursuit and stealth or civilization jihad because this is your book of business to read this is pretty much all you do now. how did you get from here to there? was it 9/11? >> guest: what was, 9/11 was a watershed moment in many of our lives and mine as well. i started out and i dedicate the book to my father, my father was a paratrooper for the 101st airborne, a patriot, left the military, loved this country, and in northeast philadelphia working class, very interesting dinner conversations about the stalingrad, king david, alexander the great, he was the most well read man i ever met. he was brilliant and he schooled me on these topics, so i had a passion for foreign policy in the middle east and from a young age. >> host: well schooled but not in intellectual. >> guest: know why father was actually a high school dropout. intellectually ferocious intellectual a voracious reader and self-taught. self-made, self-taught electrician in the factory in philadelphia but he would come home and read and converse and he lived and breathed this stuff and installed that passion in me. when 9/11 wrote in a recovering sports, a basketball player covering the nba live in new york a few months before 9/11 come and a store should come sportswriting didn't do it for me and i was kind of search tracker and long story short, i threw everything 9/koran did the same thing a sadly they haven't. i immersed myself and studied intensively devouring everything i could get my hands on, and they got to the point i said i'm a journalist, reuter, chromite had in the ring. david horowitz, a great patriot gave me my first shot and it's been a fun ride since. >> you have to admit you are a small elite group of journalists that go after this. there's you, david horowitz, the rise of the media. maybe a few others but you are a tiny coalition against a huge journalistic pale and that says not a problem. not a problem. the problem with these guys is they come from a position of intolerance, and yet, one of the things i notice in this book is nothing that you say is not backed up by facts. in many cases it is verses within dhaka koran. this has got to be frustrating for somebody like you for somebody that has been on this case for ten years and in many ways for further away from understanding our in any from falling what you said we have to do. does that mean we don't understand ourselves in this country? >> guest: yes. you just summed it up. there is a complete -- we live in the greatest nation, the greatest civilization in the history of mankind. america but also the judeo-christian western civilization. there is such shame on man, such guilt we have suppressed the muslim world. we are the imperialists aggressor. we have oppressed muslims throughout the world and a force for evil for the world. that is the mainstream winans fought running for the political left and many of the elite institutions, universities, even the government, mainstream media, and i hate to make a blanket statement that i'm in the media in washington, d.c. in the halls of power and i see this self loading western civilization there is an attraction for anything that's not western so there's a natural sympathy with islam. the palestinians are victims of the western-style is release. that is a stranger running for young people being taught this revisionist history not only american history but revisionist islamic history and our schools and public schools and universities there's a lot of confusion, and there is a lack of pride, lack of sense and self worth and western man now and great britain and i have a chapter a cautionary tale great britain is the center of this western suicide. >> host: you know bernard lewis, scholar, said that europe will probably be islamist by the end of the century. do you think that is a possibility? are they moving with that kind of momentum? >> guest: so rapidly and i think bernard lewis might have been too conservative. people are going to say you're crazy this is alarmist. no it is not just me to be the leading scholars have said this. great britain by the year 2015 will have self segregated muslim enclaves living outside of the british common law and we are already seeing it. there are some 87 sharia courts functioning right now in great britain outside of the british common law and there are no both zones in the country where the police do not venture to read this is great britain and i can tell you winston churchill was turning in his grave. >> host: i saw the report indicated that there are no less than 50 cases currently in american courts. most of them having to do with custody of laws and family law we but nonetheless, that is a pretty shocking statistic for the country that supposedly says through the sixth amendment the supreme court will be dillinger all of the land how can that coexist with sharia? >> guest: people don't know this is going on most of the radar screen and like you said it starts out in marital and disputes. divorce court things. i want to divorce my wife, my husband god forbid beats me. that's what started in great britain and you have an imam or one of the pilgrims of the muslim neighborhood in great britain or sweden or france basically acting as the judge and jury, literally handing down the ruling for married couples in the west among muslim couples in the west acting outside of the law of the host country and it happens very slowly, but when he have lennon called them useful idiots in the political class, and i think of the archbishop of canterbury a few years ago who said we have to accept the sharia law in the muslim communities. the top christian authority saying this, giving shirley of the okay to act outside of the common law when you have people like that in the positions of authority if only he since the downfall and the american people completely in the dark and it many cases do not know this is going on. if they did they would be outraged and that is why i wrote the book. >> host: we have a director in the community talking to my wife about this when she was clearing him on supposedly the interfaith counseling that is going on today and she said what about the muslim brotherhood? what about some of the assaults against the christians in egypt and elsewhere and the reaction of was furman and episcopal priest well, it's their time. i mean, they, the willful blindness, and this is your term in the book to me is what may undo this country. if something catastrophic happens here we will be accessories after the fact if not full co-conspirators. estimate of their rental back on this generation and curse this generation and shake their fists at a loss for what we didn't do as this threat was rising to just accept this to acquiesce to this rise of jihadist islami, a suicide, and i can talk about the political lesson specific. they don't know who they are getting in bed with here. they really don't know how roofless roofless these guys are yet i go to congress in the shootings as you mentioned earlier every single -- every single democrat on that panel derided the hearings as a witch hunt anti-islam at reading from the same talking points provided by the muslim public affairs council. if we hang with the same crowd -- >> guest: think of 1979, another cautionary tale. the revolution when the ayatollah khomeini came to power, one of the watershed moments of modern history in a bad way to the set by the communists, the marxists and iran there were behind the ayatollah she's going to bring democracy and change to iran. first thing when he came to power two months after line up ground double the left, of the socialists in iran either thrown in jail or executed. so it is a cautionary tale and word of warning when you are going to bat for sure via islami you don't know what you're getting into. >> host: let me go back to the arab spurring, a term i've always been suspect of the devotee three countries that you just mentioned, and of course israel. as you look at what is unfolding, certainly to the north and now to the south of israel is this the beginning of arab spring or long islamic winter in your view? >> guest: i think it is the latter. if you look at each of these countries affected by the so-called arab spurring, the biggest likely beneficiary are islamist and each of you have the muslim brotherhood and libya and you have the brotherhood and al qaeda. in a syria we don't know. i personally would not be sad to see the regime though there's a worry about the brotherhood gaining power. in bahrain you have iran benefitting and you have yemen and al qaeda concord. al qaeda. so in each of the situation except to nisha which is generally moderate is seeing some islamist stirrings in each of these countries the most likely beneficiary are islamists so you could see i think it sounds crazy but a push for hay three knute caliphate if you see the forces come to power in all these countries in the middle east you can see the push for unity and i can tell you iran for one is looking to unify the muslim world against israel first and america second. america is the ultimate prize. >> host: in your book you dhaka saturday people and the sunday people. the saturday people of course would be the israelis and the christians, the sunday people. but what is the future of israel under this scenario and specifically if you're benjamin netanyahu right now are you at a point where you're going to have to pull the trigger first because if he does, you know what the world reaction will be. >> guest: if he does, if it is an offensive operation or a defensive operation, fred, the world reaction will be outraged and castigating israel perhaps even sanctions. >> host: including this country as well. >> guest: after 2012 if president obama is reelected, post 2012 she has nothing holding him back from carrying out his full and honest and fury against israel. this is a man who in my opinion, and it's not just an opinion from looking at his policies and looking at his posture when she was sitting with netanyahu in the oval office last week when he was schooled by netanyahu, this is a man who does not like israel. it is a visceral dislike from this administration. we will get to that in a second but i want to go back to your question about pulling the trigger first. with iran, yes, israel is facing an existential threat to be the this administration will not strike iran militarily. i don't see a scenario on which it will do that. they should because i'm not a warmonger. i don't want another war. we tide of iraq and afghanistan and for some reason libya. but the only way you're going to stop kuran from going nuclear is military force because sanctions are great but at the end of the day they are not going to work. at the end of the day this iranian regime is motivated by, again, and ideology. it is a messianic apocalyptic ideology. they truly believe and they will shape policy around this, the government truly believes they can usher in the end times. cresco this would be the 12 imam. >> guest: the 12th -- it goes by various names -- he's the islamic messiah and this sounds crazy, i know, but they believe this. the likes of ahmadinejad, and they believe if they strike out against israel and fire nuclear weapons, if there's a time of global chaos and the people which we see right now with the arab spring, they believe that can hasten the return of the islamic messiah who will lead them to victory over israel and the west so a clearing of the weapons as part of the divine plan. nothing will detour them or dissuade them from the goal they believe it is divinely sanctioned from arrah and the economics of a nuclear iran because they would use those weapons. one of the precursors to the return of the islamic messiah and i don't need to get into the weeds, one of the precursors as conquering jerusalem. that's one of the precursors in this in same system of this regime. >> host: having said that, one of the arguments of course and this is always coming from the palestinian community, if he would make an equitable division of israel and jerusalem everything will be fine, but of course there was no prior to 1940 and the islamic revolution goes back to the year 780. sold about 700 years where there was a small amount of violence seem comes to mind, most of the middle east to the >> guest: you make a great point. no one mentions right now israel is blamed for all of our il's triet al qaeda wants to blow us up because of israel because we support the jews. it's their fault if only israel would give more land and even get the nuclear program and they would like a nuclear-free middle east if only they basically will cease to defend itself we would have peace and the islamic would leave us alone in the west. in 632 when it is long ruled out of the arabian