[videotape] its hard to imagine what an impact those 40 seconds head. We are going to come back to that will be talked to masha gessen. Thank you for coming tonight. Thank you for having me. This book is going to be available afterwards. Words will break cement comes from a poem. Actually it comes from a closing statement in court. Thank you. The publication of the book was accelerated to coast just before the sochi games, putin gave amnesty to masha. Masha and maria. Thank you. After they served 650 days in jail and his punishment for essentially that 40 seconds of a performance that really was truncated we are going to talk a lot about what their influences were and everything else. Maybe we should start with what caused the pussy riot to form . Earlier we were going to look at a clip and decided not to, showing president medvedev announcing with putin that they were going to essentially swap jobs and putin would then become president. For the third time. For the third time. What happened after that . There actually is a direct relationship between those two. A lot of people in russia felt absolutely despondent when putin and medvedev came out during a conference of the United Russian Party and its something that was extremely reminiscent of the soviet Party Congresses did they said okay we have decided that you all should support putin for president. And there was thunderous applause of tens of thousands of hands and it was decided that putin was president even though there had been no election. Then there was a parliamentary election in december so three months later. It was a sham election just like every election before in the three years and then another election which would be the president ial election. After the parliamentary election it broke off suddenly for everyone else but pussy riot had existed for a couple months. He was born as a fiction. It was born when nadia who was a philosophy student at Moscow University 21 years old and participated in another group, she was asked to speak at a conference of opposition actors. Mostly this was because there were so few opposition activists that when one of the opposition activist noticed someone it was a charismatic and a participant in this tiny opposition events that were happening, they tried to draw them in. Nadia was asked to give it presentation she decided she would give a presentation on feminist art. Because she was very taken with it and she was reading about all these radical feminist art in the west so she put together what could really be a freshman course on feminist art but freshman courses on feminist art are not taught in russia. She put it together in an hour and a half long presentation but there was a problem with the presentation which was that there were no russian artists. There was one but one is not enough and she was very commercial. She had been working for a long time and she felt she needed to finish with the russian artists. Otherwise it was kind of wrong and an activist conference to talk about a russian artists the whole time. So she made one up. She wrote made one up called pussy riot. It is a childish word for. So this was like this incredible group. It was a very versatile group. They did visual art in renderings of classic paintings with laundry and dirty dishes superimposed on them as feminist symbols. Its a little difficult because the person helping her with her presentation who was a musician who knew much about music so they took a song by the cockney rebels which is a british punk group from the 80s and they wrote lyrics that a russian punk group would sing if a russian punk group existed, which was like a caricature of feminist lyrics. It started with stinky socks and ended up with and be your own. [laughter] they recorded this on a dictaphone at a playground. They need is some place where they could jump around and they didnt have enough place or space in their home to do this. They went out to a childrens playground in the evening when there were no children there to record it. There were no children but there were young people sitting around drinking beer. The young people got really concerned and went up to them and said to something happened to you . Did someone hurt you . Do you need help . Do i need to beat them up . They shoo them away and they kept recording so at this presentation nice of finish with the words and amazingly there is a punk rock, feminist Punk Rock Group working right now and we are going to leave you with a song of theirs. Then she pressed a button on the boombox and this absolute awfulness came out. It was like 1000 rusty nails and women screaming and then walked out of the room. It was there that we watched videotapes. The camera followed them out of the room and you could see all these faces. There were 40 men in the room and no women at all these meant to know what hit them and what they were supposed to do. Do they get up and turn off the music or do they wait for the womens combat . I dont know what happened because the operator walked out of the room. Was this the beginning of adopting this form of shock art music as a form of protest and you mentioned there were 40 men in the room. So do you know how they reacted and what age group they represented . Most of the men were in their 30s and 40s aside from absolute shock and how they reacted. This both of them in some of the women who does join them decided this was a good idea and they wanted to make this a reality. They had participated in earlier protest art group. There is some significant differences between pussy riot as they came to be called and one was that pussy riot was an anonymous collective. It was very personified and they talked about anonymity said principle as a potential tool of art making. An. It is like being spiderman. [laughter] the finished product is not the performance. They decided to do all performances as a serious with a compilation. It did not always work out but what distinguishes them and was very of skier in the presentation. You should say that it means more. You go from pussy riot and pussy riot what connection is there . I would not put too much significance on the name. So they decided pussy riot would be accompanied by very clear expectation and right very accessible text on what they said and why they said it the way they said it. Host so to get back, i hope we have time. We started to talk about their influence. For example, the other artists but what other influences especially with nadia had the unusual childhood growing up and had a very interesting father maybe you could tell us about these three principles women that you chose to write about the most . The main characters are three women who were unmasked and tried as south pussy riot. A the mastermind katz was by her side while coming up with the idea. Maria who is absolutely central to the whole pussy riot case and caused head taken part. She was more of the environmentalist. Guest i was fascinated how Something Like that comes to be because there is nothing in russia that suggests the pussy riot could exist. A radical feminist. Nothing from which it could appear at appear. And to i did not figure out where her ideas came from. She should not exist but she does. [laughter] we had a long correspondence was she was then president of herself Education Program she was born in siberia in the the farthest north city with a population of over 100,000 and if that does not conjure in image, imagine black. A city dark most of the year because of the polar night to lead with polar day chiusi how hideous it is. [laughter] it has a very minimal rich soil so because of that and the industry there are metal particles in the air. The air is black. The soil is black. A city of darkness. Her father who left the effort the family early that means he was an artist which means he does not do anything. [laughter] , he told me that when she came to moscow and said she sought a dusk in the channel. That is not the most nature rich city but there is a little bit of water with a few ducks. She said is it real . He was struck by that because she did not say that is zadok. Her first assumption is that it could not be real with also was struck me with that conversation and is he would notice Something Like that and register in his mind. He was the was the person who stuck with her and turned it probably made his mothers help live help but he opened the overall to her and talked about artie and literature to show her and give her stuff to read a and is she is still very, very grateful to him for showing her the world was complicated and there was a lot of art. Then she was very disappointed at the age of 14 she wrote an article called the truce beyond the circle where she criticized the school and Education System and her peers who were not interested in anything. And finished by saying things will get better. In finding that article ellis i knew she did not come out of the womb. [laughter] she was not a terribly well educated teenager but very motivated to get Something Better so she created her own curriculum. As methodically working her way through the philosophers then something happened in the mid90s the couple of russians bought the Metal Companies in the town. It was decided the city would be transformed to start the Arts Foundation and put the older sister in charge of it and told her to bring culture. So she would give moscow writers and artists together to airlift them for their brief day in stable master class is a and weve wanted to see the poet and visual artist. Into that taught her that Something Else could exist as well. Which was is a movement that took the soviet languages and bureaucracy to make art out of them. And started to study the moscow conceptualism. And then to get into the Philosophy Department they get into a conceptual arts. Host she played an Important Role also with pussy riot talk about the weight that they held. Guest i love that story. The idea came to moscow to study at the Philosophy Department and within six months decided it is not what she wanted. It is boring and cookie cutter in the chair of the department thought andy warhol was risky and nobody had heard of him. [laughter] some of then j. Metz an older man who was amazing he lived in canada and lived in japan and had seen Judith Butler speak so she knew it is the most amazing thing. Host so for nadia come with this man to she would marry later that she she had actually seen judas butler at toronto university. [laughter] guest there is of fundy footnote and i will get to that. But also to be very taken with nadia here was this beautiful creature in she is amazing. And then talks about the moscow conceptual list they thought maybe six people had heard of them. And then said he and a couple of his friends want to start an art group but to make a protest march but what that would be they had not figured out. Nadia suggested to talk to her sister so they decide to do it together. The action to go inside a fireproof safe and carry him up 27 floors to the Main Building of the Moscow University which is the highest point in moscow also the pinnacle of the enlightenment you go to a the top floor it is also the place where the headquarters of the labor camp built Moscow University were located during construction. It is bursting with symbolism. I dont know how they plan to do that. They have no idea how much that ways. [laughter] and he was going to recite a poem from inside the safe. [laughter] to start a dialogue with the students so the action would be debating in dialogue. They were supposed to reach at the cafe they could not procure the fire purves save. [laughter] they decided to use a wooden are more instead. [laughter] and he was two hours late so finally he called of anything but i think i have had an art of a heart attack and i and in the hospital ipo in mint the ico and then one week later he is dead. The last fall of he ever wrote was the call on that was supposed to start the dialogue. So my favorite action is the way to go to the moscow metro if you can visualize the subway car with seats only along the side facing each other they find the folding tables that fits perfectly between the seats so they threw down the picnic tables and put traditional wake fair with bitter and sweet food and vodka they did this on the of the churro that goes around in a circle. They went to around one and a half revolutions before they were removed. So to imagine these days somebody to do something so bizarre and unsanctioned anywhere is impossible. Host can i read a little bit of the pollen . It is amazing. My ambition spinach bet is not what he wrote. Is a great power of poem as a young man but theyve resided at the week the wake spending but i am just going to read this. My ambition is serving as compost for the future as a more rational sort full of merit and purpose with fertilized dirt. I used interactively and proudly to realize is all that is paillette declares i love you, come what may. This to me echoes a theme from those who had perished because they criticized with those of the thirties that said it will serve as maneuver to fertilize the earth so human harvest will rise. Is a clear reference to bring in tuzes new generation that finally existed spinet but they chose that for though weight that is what makes that action so poignant. They really are heartbroken. They think it is written for them. But theyre having a conversation with him they can no bunker have. Host how does it go from there with the first actions then starting at a time before putin announces then they decide to become policy riot. Host teeeight what kind of politics that would represent . I know many of those talk about mediocrity and conformity but has how developed was their critique . Consider they exist for four months before they were arrested. [laughter] and i was struck i had been covering the trial in moscow then came to new york for vacation and then reading on the data it was Pretty Amazing because i have not seen them in 20 years or ever then all of a sudden pussy riot had drawn so much attention to russia there are one of many significant accomplishments. So to read 90 is closing statement. That this actually sounds better in english and russian. [laughter] because in russia and it sounds like it is translated from english to be steeped in rhetoric. It is so new and there were so eager because nobody was paying attention. But more specifically and not to be split up with interpersonal intentions so to figure out what they would do next. Then into the idea of pussy riot that that meant a lot to those that participated with a pretty vague idea in today were independents and fighting that is the extent of the foundation of feminism in the group. It was antiputin group that was clear. What makes it very unusual for the opposition was they did not talk but they only did five actions. But the second target was consumer is some and they did the second clip with the russian anarchist priest and fraud cut is vodka. [laughter] choose to defy consumers some. [laughter] they get to the privileges part later. With the series of fashion in shows and boutiques and the pedestrian mall and they accidentally set the fashion show on fire. [laughter] they never expected to have the notoriety . Last of moscow protest movement started to show up on the night the putin was reelected in that power swap they do their performance performance, one week later actual they. And then one week later they invented pussy riot. Then on december 4th the parliamentary election which jews rigged like it has been for years lowes purchasers of a with schedule protest tour 300 people would show up it is depressing because the way the protest working in russia is strange anyone who comes through democratic country you have to get a permit for a particular place and people then the police set up cordons so the people protesting are inside the space so they only talk to one another. So then they close off the street so you cannot have onlookers. The sidewalks empty. Then the place that you have a rally and then to enter this place to have to pass through a metal detector and for those people you stand around to give the talking and you steve. Leaf i had to go out least once because i felt that i had to on the day after the election was going i was picked up at home because it was near my house and it was dark and training and early december i was freezing. Said i really dont want to go. They said we have to because who will go if we dont . But everybody was there. There were 10,000 people. There were six metal detectors. So some people jump to a the Police Cordon and something was happening. Host this was carried in the price of a middleclass protest that people finally thought they should have the state of who would lead the country and not should be told to them. But and then to mention this is a huge Cross Section those who could afford to buy a car but we are just barely making it so were not completely middleclass but to say this is the awakening around the world but then with the middleclass protest but then the kremlin immediately put out with city druthers one dash dwellers yes that is the 80 urban country. 80 percent russian and russia is the largest city in europe. But at the height of the protest movement there were simultaneous attacks large cities small towns were coming out. There is a pretty good study done with the largest protest done with a sample of 10,000 people out of 100,000 that there was of a crosssection of all income levels slanted to higher educated so only about half the people learned of it from the internet the other half by word of mouth, the radio, so very different people. Is it fair to compare to other movements . Said is fair to talk about the arab spring because people in russia were watching. They wanted to come out to change their fate. We dontknow but then he was toppled. And there were a lot of things that are in play or that were not in play actually. One thing that has been under examined between the protesters and the government and how they work inside the cordoned off area. There was a very small minority within that movement and part of what they were doing the month before in red square was pushing the limits to challenge that agreement. Host we should go back to the clip that leaves into a couple of months later with actual performance and i want to talk about how the 42nd performance could bring about repression. Could we have that second to clip . [applause] sorry. This is the wrong one. Then it is the first one. We will just got. U. S. Senate on the internet is a very famous and short performance where they are in dresses and tights to go into the cathedral of christ the savior and it is of blasphemous prayer here we go. Host masha gessen can you explain what they were trying to do what the words were and the have seen repression has been very swift and strong everywhere when they come to the protest movement you were talking about in the square but here it led to a show trial. So what it was they were doing and why they chose that cathedral. February 21st, 2012 in two weeks clinton will declare reelection to the third unconstitutional term in office and he is very nervous he grabbed the Russian Orthodox church this is what they have always done even during the soviet period in times of crisis they reach for the orthodox church. Most people dont realize it was always on hand. Of the church serves to campaign so they compare putin to god. They are directing believers because orthodox believers do not attempt. And pussy riot decided to go into the cathedral where government members like to go on church holidays. It is where the patriarch is on other holidays where religion and power come together also where corruption is on display. It has a room for each offense it even has a car wash in the cathedral. It is home to the foundation where money goes in and does not come out. It is the perfect symbol of russia today and the refrain was mother of god chase putin ouch the other blind was oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit. [laughter] that is why the people in russia firmly believed they went into the church and defecated. Host but they died. Lets separate. There is the state media who at the time the independent media was terrific. But 98 to of russian household gets state tv as the main source of information so they really do pussy riot went into they did not think there would get arrested. So that is hard to believe. People did not actually go to jail. Soviets now understand but two years ago that was not happening. There were getting a rest which was the strong slap on the wrist if they were convicted of violating an putin would begin a crackdown this was a Perfect Place to start because it shines of light on exactly what to russia is and what is wrong with it. The criminal case was launched indeed it was so insignificant they were removed but the equipment was taken. They got together that evening there wanted to get their equipment back so they came up with the cost of amys story a friend went to the police that they were approached on the subway to ask them to borrow music equipment. [laughter] he produced a forged document theyve borrowed his equipment then they went into the cathedral could he have it back please and he got it back. [laughter] host but then they are arrested and put on trial charged to be a food again and inflecting moral damage nonbelievers which is a strange charge. That is not what they were charged with. That is what the testimony was about. The charge was different. To be a hooligan is to find a crew did disturbance of the social order motivated by hatred. Faber convicted of a hate crime and the social movement was attacked against orthodox believers but the testimony centered on the moral damage inflicted. There is a hole windup of victims that testified that they were traumatized by witnessing or watching it on you to go over and over. [laughter] this rendered them unable to work. [laughter] watching this on you tube over and over. The most difficult part was to get the trial into 60 pages. Host its is the heart of it. It was just working with the audio and videotapes to figure out how not to make the encyclopedia because what is in the book i will give you a couple of other examples then to go up in the platform to start crossing themselves was that like regular orthodox believers . No. Its was fast. [laughter] another witness says then they started to jerk like the devil the defense attorney was out of the depth and said i with like to know how the witness knows how does the devil jerk . [laughter] she has seen the devil. In my favorite is and they appeared possessed the judge says i object. [laughter] the witness does not have a medical degree and is not qualified to give a professional opinion. [laughter] this is 2012. In europe. It is hilarious also scary. It is done in absolute seriousness and there were three women it was a brilliant frank then in jail six months later there in a cage and a plastic box because theyre dangerous criminals. Then it was very painful of them to we accused of hatred. They are pollocks. Theyre not hateful people. But just to hear that over and over but the only voice of sanity with that entire trial with the concluding statements there in the book in its entirety and amazing. Host we will play that in just a Second Public dont have time to go the way this was a show trial with their sentence may be in the question period we can bring this up but with the experiences of reata and nadia in the penal colony where you were able to go with your husband and visit. But the final statements whole trial proceeding will seem very strange to a westerner not the way you see the role of a judge or defense or prosecution for women said the only place you could have the political conversation. So maybe you could look at the final clap then go back and talk about it [applause] [speaking russian] [speaking russian] [speaking russian] [speaking russian] [speaking russian] [speaking russian] [applause] she is beautiful then theyre sentenced to a harsh john in the penal colony. We only have 20 minutes for questions. Should be opened . Of course, i want to let you know, that it is very beautifully written book but the entire statements are reproduced this is only a very short part. Of the clarity that you see from their experience comes through then to use it as a form of continued performance as part of their performance is still back what we have an indication of how many questions we will have. I am interested in the place of religion in russia life as a lender stand that so much of this is church centered with the use of the church could they chose that could you talk more about that of russian culture . Exactly the right way to phrase the question the place of the church in russian culture it is not to being served at the pleasure and a lot of the churches were destroyed and most clergy were not allowed to put those who were worked for the kgb. In times of crisis the government always relied on the church for example, during world war ii he can describe the church and for a while there were even chaplains. Basically the same thing has happened over the last few years it is interesting i am not a fan of opinion polls as they are problematic but it is an interesting poll that shows that they did not believe in god but it is something it is a blank slate to appeal to a political purpose. It was used with pussy riot also the antigay campaign with the idea but it will be the traditional Value Capital of the world with the torch that is carried. With the opinion polls and shows a very high Approval Rating around 75 . Can you comment about the credibility . Also what is your sense of the russian people incursion into the ukraine or a the crimea area . That is not too far afield. Opinion polling is fraud and there is a problem of measuring zero period where it is not freely expressed or form to. That is a big problem. From other indicators it has not been all smooth sailing for putin. At the lowest point even at the time on march 4th, 2012 he tried to get 63 percent of the vote but he got about 50 . That sounds good considering there is nobody else on the ballot. [laughter] there were four names that were put there with petitions permission but Nobody Campaign to. So that means 50 percent beauts for putin in air rigged election that is remarkable. So support for him has rebounded last week with the invasion of ukraine. It took him two years to recover. The whole traditional values campaign has helped with the mobilization effort. You are back living in new york now but i know youre active in moscow trying with the civil rights organization. What is happening now . Have they been outlawed or is there still the underground caused . Triangle existed in the 90s. It is the expression of the belief we had not just of gay people that we called ourselves at the time but feminists than people who thought after the soviet union collapsed be with have all of the normalcy of other countries. It did not just happen. You cannot have the lgbt or equivalent until you have community and identity. So that died down in the 90s some with Community Building so then in cities they have not been very much under attack. That is probably the worst position to file a political battle. Into the community oriented. And to be thrust into politics and have got more support from the lgbt people and the small liberal community in russia than ever before. That is the silver lightning. But most of fact network which is the largest is from people asking how to get out of the country. How concerned are you about the pussy riot in the future could they be rearrested especially with the caribbean situation . They are definitely a target. They have the threat to be rearrested and threats of physical harm. I am more concerned of physical harm at this point they are attacked weekly on the streets i am sure you have seen them being horsewhip to. Also last week they were attacked by a nationalist activist that was with the secret police and sprayed them with green disinfectant and through a jar at maria as head and she had to get stitches and sprayed an audience size with acid. It is scary. That they come to a physical harm. This is a followup. What is the impact of the Artist Movement right now will this continue as they step forward to take the place . Are people fearful . What will happen . Russia is in the midst of an extreme political crackdown. It began two years ago with the rest of pussy riot there has spent a series of laws passed changing the rule of public assembly, changing from laws governing to paralyze their work for months at a time some of the cost is extremely high. What is happening in the last couple weeks is the final attacked on independent media. The only channel that is independent will shut down in the of the court to and they have shut down internet and cable providers. The News Agencies was handed over to the state today. Actually it was privately owned and to the editor found out this morning she was fired and a kremlin hand was appointed in her place. Just before we went on stage if you log on a couple hours ago all the news items were leaked to the state news agency items it was literally handed over to the kremlin the largest privately owned resources in the country. In the context of historical rush of the gigantic country that had very strict communist rule rule, a russian friend told me 10 years ago russian people have never had democracy or freedom and we dont know how to do this yet. It is tragic to see a the dictatorial state returning. Could you talk about the context of russian history how is it worse now and where reduce the hope for the russians finding their voice . Do you think it is worse now . It is worse than last year. Last year i could still live there. It has been a downhill slide over 40 years since putin came to power that is a long time to shut down democracy. It was a slow process that first and has sped up literally the last two weeks and i cannot stress this enough. What has happened since the invasion of ukraine has been an allout effort to isolate russia from the rest of the world to shut down the last vestiges of public space and free speech in the country. I have always been suspicious of the argument that russia never had democracy but the exception of the new world those countries it never had it until they had it. At the same time i have been taken recently baby there is something very significant or tragic to the reduce the Russian Society has suffered for so long. Society needs to recover in the same way that people need to recover. That requires help and intervention and all sorts of things that the russians did not get in the 90s. It should not be a surprise that russia has gone back to its abuser. That is what they usually do. Did you also also write your book give russian is it available in russia . No. [laughter] when you talk about the university i thought there were more equal buildings on each side . The use said the floor was the highest . There are seven similar highrises but the blood with Moscow University is on the tallest hill so has the highest elevation. I applied too thank you for your work. [applause] i was a particular the stock by the passages describing life in the penal colony. As a journalist how often do you really get to to get a first and a record of what goes on . I did a fair amount of reporting in the 90s and when russia repealed the sodomy law i ran a project getting people after out of prison after it was repealed so i had some of familiarity but as they did other work with access to penal colonies became more restricted i was absolutely shocked by what i found. And what they have described so openly as they describe less willingly and in part because this is so humiliated to meeting people dont want to talk about it is is humiliating to women because they are centered around personal hygiene. Nobody wants to talk about that. But that is one of the main tools of control to turn the inmate into a body moved between the factory and the dorm. They fall in line with that practice. And then secondarily how did they make a living . How do they support themselves before they got arrested and now but how do they do that . I dont actually know but i asem they have heard riot girl groups because its obviously referenced by girls in the movement in a way that they named themselves. They certainly listen to a fair amount of various kinds of punk music and lifted so o