Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On We Could Not Fail 20150906

Will talk about our book we could not fail the first African Americans in the Space Program. Influx at nasa role in civil rights the years before the civilrights act which is an important distinction because before the act discrimination was not against the law it was legal to say you cannot use this toilet you are black or cannot come into this restaurant because you are black. It is an important distinction as we talk about the achievements of the people in this book. To talk about the rules put in place from the Kennedy Administration how they read implemented by nasa and by contractors. More importantly the alliance whose people were touched to tell the stories of 10 men that we call the civilrights era and some employees worked for agency contractors. Kennedy was forced to deal with our space at the same time he was forced to deal with civil rights. Because they are not things he talked about his campaign. He didnt bring up either but there was a sequence of the events time to gather that happened over the course of about six weeks in 1961. The first human being in space the soviet union has now the important cold war victory. On april 20 becomes clear that they of pigs has failed the soviet union now has a base essentially 90 miles off the florida. When it becomes clear if has failed kennedy calls Vice President johnson who is president of the space capsule to come up with something fast in space because that will be the big hail mary pass to divert everyones attention from cuba. So shepard becomes the First American then nine days later the freedom rights rides as they get into a bus headed for new orleans that the whites in the back and though blacks in the front. They head down south the there is a firebomb die on the 25th president kennedy said me will put a man on the moon by the end of the decade the and the mobs try it end martial law is declared now kennedy is thrown in with both feet into civilrights and the Space Program. Nasa will hire 250,000 new people involved texas florida and mississippi louisiana. That is the heart of the jim crow south. But stephen also has another piece of this story that happened before that that guarantees civilrights are part of the story. Now richard has everyone excited. [laughter] so kennedy signed an executive order march 6, 1961 for the realities that he could not get civilrights through congress so he had to do something to executive power and that is what he did which was an executive order. It shows how effective federal agencies and their contractors. When it was issued to cover 38,000 contractors at the time asset was a young and relatively small agency as it happened so did the importance of this order on agency affairs. Lyndon johnson believed there was a link between southern poverty and southern racism. The consols london the other to transform the south. Thereby bringing into the mainstream. To be Common Knowledge that is not intended to use the Space Program to reconstruct the south. After kennedy placed him at the space council, the Vice President found himself in a position to implement his plan. The executive order requires several contractors to be equal Opportunity Employers. This is the first time this happens soon after he announces plans to land on the moon and they began to advertise for engineers and technicians around the country that contractors quickly proclaimed themselves to be compliant. But not everyone embraced the order july 1961 houston power and light cut power to the Pelican Island in galveston texas. Jeopardize in the hope to the inclusion with a contract with the navy. Should i tell the president you cannot supply power to the navy . Because of the negro question. And what are you going to do about space . Houston remained a viable candidate this is one of the pressures there would have a civilrights and the spaceage. Probably he made his most moving speech at Rice University and not by accident. The Race Institute in 1960 the schools president was named kenneth and whenever nasa would come down he would be there to work by it was his desire to put Mission Control in houston. So he arranged for 1,000 acres and promised the land to nasa for the space Center Building he said this tips the scale to put Mission Control in houston and in exchange 1962 he got money from asset and problem started because the original 1891 request provided for the free instruction of white texans and federal money involved that was not going to work. The board of trustees had no appetite for desegregation but they did file a lawsuit to change the charter to read mitt black students they removed though word white and free and when they did that a group of alumni screamed bloody murder and filed an intervention. And vice relationship with nasa kong in the balance until 1965 when a ruling was finally made. This was typical of the problems that nasa faced as interacted with its other facilities. The National Academy of science and evaluation of the principal space communities in the 60s and there is a popular belief that Technological Advancements with the two major social change and committees with their people employed in Research Laboratories with a new engineering techniques should display a high level of social innovation space communities with see if that is true. It wasnt. Many people then and now believe the Space Program brought legions of a social liberal Rocket Scientist to the south. It didnt do that either. They found the space center would recruit heavily from a technician that was trained in the south the personnel chief said 50 percent of employees came from alabama fifth down the same was true at Cape Canaveral in florida and in her book an economist on very much the same thing 38 of the people worked in the area in 196030 of the labor force and in florida 28 percent of people employed in Brevard County worked outside in 1960. Their votes that there seems to be no evidence or sympathy among a technologist for civil rights negros appeared to be vlsi group presenting to me as i have to be dealt with in some way better which of no concern to them. We see this attitude play out. One is a man named julius montgomery. The first africanamerican hired anything other than a janitor at Cape Canaveral. He was hired with the missile misfired their range rats would fly go get it figured out what went wrong in and fix it. He was hired in the mid50s when the kkk controlled east central florida. Of the sheriff of Orange County was a klansman. Local businessmen joined the klan almost like joining the rotary club. So considering that that is what he faced on his first save for. Nobody was shaking my hand how our you lie injurious montgomery. You dont talk to a white man like that. Oh forgive me zero great white bastard. We laughed when we shook hands. Working with a bunch of clansman at Cape Canaveral. Julias montgomery also integrated a Southern College we hear stories of literature i know you have not heard the story of the Florida Institute of technology founded 1959 as brevard Engineering School the first building was a Public Junior High School that many blacks were not allowed he signed up to be the firstclass and the superintendent of schools when he saw a black man got his undergraduate was enrolling in the college he said the school would not open if Julius Mcgarry was a student. The president of the college beg him to please drop out so the school could open and in an act of immense selflessness he agreed and enrolled one year later this school did open and let him in one year later know every year they give the julias montgomery award to an africanamerican who has made a contribution to the committees to thank jim for his selfless act. Now the next three involves three men who used the Space Program to achieve a civil rights victory in houston. 1963, three men who were instrumental to use houstons space politics or a leader in the black community is the executive director of the ymca who will lead student protesters to use the y has a headquarters and other was a political activist and a student organizer the first president and cofounder who helped to organize the 1960s and counter sitin a law student at the time cofounded the p y a they started to plan something may 3rd 1963 when Police Officers in birmingham alabama there roasted 2500 people injured by these events they began to plan the most successful civilrights protests that never happened. May 15 the astronauts leave service for a space flight the longest up to that time ever taken by an american. Houston planned a tickertape parade downtown a 23rd. So the plan to have protesters infiltrates the crowd along the parade route the nipple the signs out and run into the street to Bring National Media Attention to their cause. And on the day of the parade they went along the parade route en capt. I l4 there is payphone that is the only way they could do it. We had an audience this morning that didnt know what payphones were. [laughter] so the runners would read call from headquarters thing go to the people on the side of the parade route to enter instructions. Meanwhile the leaders went to move their headquarters at the Baptist Church and is set to begin an 11 00 a. M. And at 1030 the staging area is said to there lining the parade route with their parents and negotiations still land on then 20 minutes before the protesters reached he calls the church the parade went on without protest and 30 days later rabaul press coverage or fanfare. Two years later black leaders with the help of Highschool Students from Texas Southern university organized 2,000 blacks were protest march against gradual desegregation to turn the symbolism against the city with spaceage houston the stone age school. Another pioneer is a man named frank. He never worked for nasa but the work he did to develop always was vital to nasa success one of the u. S. First black officers in world war ii and after the war he decided on a career in engineering and to become a doctor or lawyer he said he would become an engineer but as a black man in america at that time he knew he needed to have a plan b. If i could not get a job as an engineer i would either go to canada or mexico. Canada had the virtue to speak english but mexico had the of virtue of colored people. He figured his chances to get a job was 50 50. Today equal opportunity and affirmative action bar words but not the case in 1961 but he was refused a management job because of his race and the mentor challenge the decision to say you cannot do that we are an equal Opportunity Employer when he heard those words he jumped up he never heard that phrase he before it is an example of equal employment actually having no role in someones life. To be the first africanamerican to never received a ph. D. In millard, metallurgical engineering this is how he had said more than once with a supervisor. Oh, yes you are qualified to be a Senior Member but because you were a negro we thought you were content became sure so in france for a negro. He realized it will take more masses for students came from the university of batterers favor called a sensation to boost them into orbit. They saw these young men go to nasa as an achievement for the African Americans as a whole the Space Program is an emeritus single accomplishment to show the black community would help get america us to the moon this was the New York Times who called the young mans social pioneers also looking at several recruiting africanamerican engineers and that it demonstrates why that was the case included we talked mostly to georgia and morgan in the book. Said demonstrated the problem that when they got to alabama nobody would rent the apartment. Mellon to ray charles concerts there was a line down and though the ideal plaques and one side and whites on the others also at mohamed of the signing with the blacks on one side and the whites on the of there with the rope down the field and africanamerican recruit recruiter that the young man homes and that is for their lives during their time there despite nasas efforts to integrate the work force this is the way things were at the time according to watson. I dont even think there were clerical workers. In fact, he told the story of the young man walking through the facility as somebody said youre using dignitaries from africa . It did not occur to them that black americans could be working at nasa. They felt that expectation in the black press had put upon them. It was our intent to do whatever it took we could not fail we had to go forward to do our best. Then the 1964 president ial election in gave the new political challenge of solving the agency. Nasa administrator announced that the management personnel might to be transferred to new orleans. Know how much of that had to do with race is all conjecture about we do know that blacks and whites refuse jobs at marshall because of the alabama race laws but the states reputation for bigotry contributed to recruiting and retention problems for nasa the putting out race aside it was a political statement whether to scare voters in alabama or incurred and elsewhere is a mystery but it did scare the Business Community the president of the Home Builders association and telegraph co white house within days of the announcement to report financial the institutions had stopped instructions. Looking to the statement to a political blackmail a gave the story from page coverage to editorialize the transfer and loss of money would teach an alabama governor wallace he is free to curse and the government and all the states righty once but he cannot have his cake and eat it too and johnson won the election. By late 1964 the head of the Marshall Center the former not seek the head of the Missile Program became the point man on civil rights in alabama. We did the same thing. We left. In november, a move demonstrating activism on civilrights they sent him to Mills College that was no ordinary place it served as the intellectual other center for the black community in that wasnt the only time that they stepped up in the cause of Race Relations in a 1964 speech to requested that they ask themselves are you doing everything in your power to strive for fair employment and improvement of racial relations in our city . Here acknowledged michauxs admit it is marred by civilrights incidence and one non to urge everyone to familiarize himself with the equal opportunities section of the civilrights act 1964 and those obligations imposed by those provisions. Tonight we have only scratched the surface of the information and are both there are a number of other stories like a nasa employee who revived a blond a defiant black town and wallace standing at the schoolhouse door is a direct challenge to the federal power to an Agency Employee who wanted to take a math class. We did not tell the story of the first would be African American astronaut. That america has to pursue a Space Program because there was no knowledge to be gained and new rights to be one and used for the progress of all people. Now of course he wasnt talking about the Race Relations but an accident of timing and coincidence to ensure the Space Program would help create progress for African American people in africanamerican people in ways that the president could not have imagined. And in so doing the program would help americans gain new knowledge about their fellow citizens and their abilities. Thank you very much. We are happy to take questions. [applause] im told for cspan there is a microphone and if you have a question raise your hand and someone will come to you. Do we have any questions . Is that a topic in your book . There was an extra layer, an extra degree of difficulty when it comes to africanamerican women. All of the documents i found looking at the employment material would say things like we brought in 110 women from alabama a m and we did the test and none of them passed. It never occurred to anyone that women might be mathematicians, might have engineering. It was difficult. I did a documentary on the first Space Program which is one of the places that got started but i also did one in that same group of the first women in the Space Program and one of them i talked to said she wanted to go to Emory University to study engineering. The women were not allowed in the school. It didnt occur to ask women to be anything other than typists. It was tough enough to be africanamerican to be a woman on top of that was even harder to do. There were some instances at some facilities that were non clerical but its a double discrimination area. First the africanamerican issue and second, women were largely confined to clerical jobs and federal agencies definitely within nasa. And if you start to look at the demographics the women were working in very large numbers in the socalled Hard Sciences that furniture shuttle science and other things like that. They tried to enter as an engineer. It faces an almost impossible Job Interview given the nature of the time it shouldnt excuse the nature of the time but as richard said its almost inconceivable that anyone would have hired that person if that person had even come along. It was hard enough to give you an idea in the 63, 64, 65, there were 11 africanamericans employed at Cape Canaveral. 11 out of 1500 employees. There were zero employees that 750 africanamerican employees employed by the contractors. Given this is of the time in the gender issues. It would be for the 1970s and 1980s that they started to make an impact. Do we have another question . One of the most interesting parts of the story i always think can you talk a little bit about how he got involved in the first place i have that this would have been 18 to 20 years after the end of world war ii hell did he get involved in the u. S. Government in the first place and how has he brought in he seems like a likely ally. At the end of the Second World War there was a scramble to see who was going to get ahold of the best a hold of the best german Rocket Scientists. The nazis really advanced. They were really advanced with rockets and missiles and all of the scientists were german and there was a desperate scramble, german rocket tears in the heart that tells the story really, really well and a lot of his men and shipped them off first to texas. They dont have two texas and that then they settled in Huntsville Alabama and so in the 1950s when the Eisenhower Administration is finally convinced through a lot of arm twisting to start a civilian Space Program is put in charge of what is the Marshall Space Flight center which is a place where the rocket are built and tested. So hes a very significant person. They brought a european cosmopolitan sense of the community and read the support from the mayor and the germans saved huntsville and created this whole culture and that actually helped a lot as he became much more progressive relative to the rest of alabama in the 1950s and 60s. He is central to the success as an engineer. Successful standing up to George Wallace because there was no federal politician that had credibility to people in alabama, not president kennedy, not the attorney general kennedy, not later president johnson. Hes going to hes got the villages which are to get the money from the universities and research centers. When he starts standing up to George Wallace and the Alabama Legislature on race issues that means something. Hes not a yankee. He stopped someone from somewhere else, hes not a washington aircraft. He is in huntsville. And if you ever get a chance to read the hate mail that he received, there are a lot of people that wrote him bringing up his past during the war saying we thought you understood us and essentially calling him a traitor for standing up and advocating civil rights. Whether he was a civil libertarian and hes seen the light and has been converted over whether he would do whatever cleared the path. It depends on which biography you want to read and who you want to believe and there are some very good biographies. Its a wonderful place to start and possibly finish. And we have a story in the book of George Wallace when he was preparing to run for president and hes gearing up and he decides hes going to invite the National Press to come along with something that we called the real alabama tour and not all this stuff that you hear about in the media. He makes the decision to come to massa nasa to say look what i brought to alabama. He decides at the last minute that hes going to come along with this country of National Press and he also makes a lastminute decision to bring those which are the one with it and the biographer gave me a transcript into the conversation between john brown and jim webb and the ahead of the Army Ballistic Missile agency which was right next to the center talking about how are we going to box out George Wallace, how are we going to turn the tables on wallace and make this event not a George Wallace event and event ended his long brown that comes up with the idea why dont we have an engine test . If youve ever seen a rocket launch it never leaves. Its got a countdown into and the flames had the noise. He says we will have an engine test and we will pay no of the Alabama Legislature George Wallace in all of us where they cant go for security reasons. Then when they are sitting there we will go over and talk to them and so they have to rocket customer george the rocket customer George Wallace is there, the National Press is there. They come in and lecture George Wallace and the legislature about the civil rights and that is the number one story in the paper. They said we dont care about this and as steven said, there is nobody that have the gravitas and protects him as much for alabama and could step in and take on somebody like George Wallace was no one who was able to do that. We do we have any questions . Anyone . I just got the book and read the preface and it tells the story about the first kind of field interview with Frank Williams swigart me thinking where they where theyll throw in interviews or were you able to get facetoface time with them and if