Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On The Winter Fortress 20160605

Norway conducted by norwegians it was obvious to partner up with the Norwegian Embassy soar to say a few words to our friends specifically to the minister counselor for communication and Cultural Affairs and education at the Norwegian Embassy he served in washington for about 10 months and previously in the immediately preceding was in at the Foreign Ministry but also in good diplomatic fashioning countries as well as in the kansas to land and morocco and the entire Region Embassy are good friends who have a number of interesting evens with them were delighted to work with them and have them here so perhaps a few words from our norwegian friends . [applause] good evening. Were glad to work with best buy museum. Thank you for this program to hear about the events to hear about the history of my own country and it does not take a bigger part to reshape the worlds history because that might have been devastating so just a few days ago in norway celebrated the 71st anniversary of the surrender of the Nazi Occupying forces of the Second World War lxxi years as a long time long enough for people to forget in generations never to learn what has happened or to reflect on the significance of what has happened. Historians know that they should never ask hypothetical questions what would have happened if . Theyre supposed to explain what happened to a certain outcome but in the case of the operation in norway is a little tempting to speculate what would our societies have liked if the nazis had succeeded in their ambitions . In the interior of the county where the germans were producing a key ingredient am sure youll hear about that later the attempt to stop the production failed with 41 young commanders lost their lives as a result the third attempt was successful with four to hearing him talk about this in the particular there is a young man sitting right here who seven years old is he eric because his grandmothers brother was the last of the commanders after they planted the bomb one of the commanders of the kaiser and he is no longer alive if i enter stand so they kill in a look for to the presentation. [applause] in the year times best selling an Award Winning author of nonfiction that focus on Inspiring Stories of a venture or achievement studying economics and English Literature at Miami University in ohio and then later as an editor of the press is a new york and now makes his living writing books which makes him a rare individual but has been very successful his book first was a book about murex cities selected for the barnes noble discover great new writers award features featured on the History Channel documentary then he wrote the book perfect smile about the efforts to break the four minute mile in his third book was about the new to me of russia of the fourth book is back there was a lead Israeli Intelligence to bring Adolf Eichmann to israel and the book was so successful a young adult addition was also put out and has won a number of awards as well as workers been translated into 50 languages and options for film and Television Projects he is among the fortunate few back to make his living as a writer also can live in Seattle Washington you can imagine he is an avid hiker in skier and coffee drinker and is a good guide your glad to have him. [applause] i have to lower the issue were taller than i am. And trying to find my notes. [laughter] i will say that speech again face to the International Spy museum in the Norwegian Embassy to cosponsor this event thinks for coming this evening. Last week i was driving in seattle listening to npr in this interview of Chris Anderson and over the course of the interview he said the longest you can possibly maintain the audience attention is 18 minutes youll be here roughly two and a half hours. [laughter] so hold tight. Was marquez introduced i have written quite a few different kinds of books the for a minute myall and russia and High School Kids building robots and people ask me often what is going on . What is the theme while all these books . My wife says i choose my books based on where i want to travel next. [laughter] norway is a lovely place to travel so that maybe slightly accurate by choose them and focus on stories as a cliche but that grabbed me about ordinary people doing extraordinary things in this story of the atomic sabotages definitely classifies now this is a story about atomic physics and heavy water it has heavy stuff is mitt i dont want you to lose sight of what is important in this story and i would like to read a letter of a concept of a scientist to region scientist and chemist who basically orchestrated all of the sabotage and devoted the rest of his life towards it. He was in london and escape to norway and wrote the series of letters to his family who were still back in norway many to his young daughter his son was too young to read but written in 1943 he tried to explain why he was away because she was very upset. We have to do everything from iran to make it free again when we say our fatherland but all of the other fathers and mothers and children i mean the wonderful memories from the time we were small in one way have children of our own hour whole villages for the lakes and ponds and rivers and streams and waterfalls the smell of the hay in the summer and even the winter cold. Everything. Norwegian songs and music is so much more in that is the fatherland that is what we have to struggle to get back that is why i am here. Now turning to atomic physics youre all very excited i can say but it is important to describe why heavy water is important i will do it in a very basic way because that is minder standing your of regular water they you can drink it has hydrogen and as a single electron heavy water is a variant or an isotope actually has neutrons in it to make it heavier now why that is important is in the course of the war the germans and the americans were attempting to build however heavy water reactors and they needed a moderator of heavy water where you have the neutrons swinging around in the reactor and what water does it might slow them down but they are absorbed taking away from but shed reaction but heavy water does not absorb them they bombard in slow than move on so the heavy water reactors the idea and the germans and americans knew this it will breed plutonium and if you have that you have a basis for the atomic bomb. This is the atomic bomb explosion over nagasaki so when people talk about the german Atomic Bomb Program they talk about the gentleman on the far left in and at the start of the war americans and germans ran the same place with the first splitting of the atom the potential for atomic power in the atomic weapon was viable so heisenberg well as part of that program he was of a theoretical physicist winning the nobel prize but he was not the key man in a gentle manner far right who work to the Army Ordinance department in four years was telling his bosses we should focus on atomic physics it is the future and they would say stop with this malarkey. So the and the splitting of an atom happened and elevated him constellate to a head of the German Uranium Club he stars research heisenberg provides a lot they he is in charge part of the nazi party he very much wants an atomic bomb. One of the key thing say he needs is heavy water there is a state single plant in all the world that would produce it in any quantity located 100 miles west set on the edge of the press of this on the edge of a place of about 3500 square miles of a plateau of vice and rock it is very hard to make heavy water you need free or cheap hydro electric power in the plants and also produce hydrogen as fertilizer is the Perfect Place to build a heavy water factory concern of those who finance and build them and in 1940 the germans came calling we want all your heavy water as much as you can give us they said why . The engineer said we cannot tell you. Know heavy water for the germans until the spring of 1940 when the germans occupied norway they went to tell them to ramp up production to fall than five full bin tenfold as much heavy water as could be produced is what they wanted the problem to build out the heavy water plant he needed 5 tons for self sustaining action just as a little background raised by a single mother very smart they didnt have much money he tried to pull themselves up in the american way studied in germany and england very well regarded as a student came back ready to start his life with his childhood sweetheart. Piaster at this point in his early theories i can do one of two things help me decide i can be a teacher which is why i love to do or make as much money as you want me to make them work for industry and we can be quite wealthy and she said i want you to be a teacher said he became an exceptional teacher but there was as a vigorous man could not sit still so he turns out to make a lot of money and did that by consulting with these industrialists in the mid 30s he decided heavy water had been discovered no bacon produce any quantity he had the hydroelectric plant would it be great if we could build something of this quantity . Antidoes it tooth it is a financial and disaster nobody wants it nobody is interested until they realize what the word this now that ambition was just letting it was the most useful property because of a rose slightly higher if it is underground what theyre doing with the increase of production the gestapo of discovers when he is doing he hears they are coming for them and puts the family at that the childhood home and goes to london in the British Scientific Community said well you to develop technology but he said want to fight to for my country and the reason i know this because thanks to my son i could assemble all the diaries his wife wrote from the time he got on that train the first jury to the moment of his death in the entries of thinking and feeling and doing and he wanted to fight he quickly found himself at the nexus of the norwegian high command who was exiled in britain hear he is in his uniform and nexus to high command special Operations Executive miscalled the ministry of ungentlemanly warfare there the commandos ago behind enemy lines for those operations so that is his role in high on the last is attacking his partners up with colonel wilson ahead of the of british in norway in the hash out plans and now by april 1942 the allies are advancing in their research and realizing this is possible and can happen and they also realize through german science they will be in the same place and they know that heavy water is critical and can be used in reaction for plutonium this is one of my favorite letters in the story because it is so bland budget is the impetus for all that happens is after word april 23rd 1942 the scientists of the committee of the british Atomic Program and right chute churchill experiments have confirmed would be good for military purposes is best prepared in systems involving the use of heavy water the Committee Recommends the attempt should be made to stop them. Summer 1942 churchill and roosevelt sit down in hyde park to discuss the same the invasion of mainland europe and what to do about the Atomic Bomb Program here is where first discussions move for over the british takeover that this is the beginning of the Manhattan Project that at this meeting they discuss heavy water and churchill writes in his memoirs that sinister term deemed heavy water and what is decided by this summer of 42 we need to do whatever we can and in michigan is on if the british had a seat for a weapon born beside said dale m. To provide the water to the hydroelectric plant this is the place snowbound six months of the year to be selfreliant is a necessity if something is broken he boasts he was born the expert skier in hunter and looks very happy to identify all things am probably the toughest person in one to to fight when the germans came. And then to say we will go on a skiing trip that i will go hunt reindeer and i will see you in three weeks. Instead of going north to go southwest to the coast on his way he crashes and now how that happened and hertz is the badly in joins together to have this ambition across the north ski in reaching scotland the problem of his knee gets worse and worse city goes to a hospital to say i need surgery will you perform today . They say we will you will need a weaker to to recover and and he said now. And the worst pain he experienced about 24 hours later he was in command of the ship with other gentleman they reached scotland lead over the course of three months or six months then we can fight but there is a young man who lives in town so they get him on a trade directly to london you will be my spy on the ground and provide information and of course, he says yes he gets one week of training and is then no in the halifax bovver bomb during the result the bottom but he is afraid of heights. [laughter] and as tough as he is he hurls himself through the whole of the british keep everything they keep this koch reports in the dispatcher rights basically having to shut him through the whole to get down the heliums on disney and skis holm. Hello mother back from my skiing vacation. [laughter] in begins to use pine and live a double life. I cannot say with one hand accuracy but was a spy over three years probably one of the long standing. To provide absolute wealth of information and production quotas and where the stairwells were. They would joke in that is the people that helped him produce program but they want to go the fast course to destroy yet from the air and says now. There are a lot of civilians there is over 5,000 with the bombing operations. And this is tens of thousands of pounds of concrete and is in the basement in day and night you will not touch the heavy water in we should send some regions who know the country and will handle it. Now its informing them that we should talk about this and this is a hard place to land at her place to be. I will give you an idea of how little the british knew of this area. This operation was scheduled to happen in likely november of 1942. Theres a series of correspondence, legitimate correspondence talking about how we are going to provide the royal engineers with bicycles. The idea would be there to be bicycles on the glider plan, they would take them out, they would bike down to the plant in late november. Which is probably a pretty bad idea given it is likely snowbound. Now this operation was called operation freshman because it gliders had never been used by the combat operations before. Operation freshman. Now those that did manage to have a fourman team led by a fourman norwegian team. These were young norwegians, much like schindler lynn, who took whatever fishing vessel somewhat around the world to reach britain to be trained, the selected the select were chosen to be part of the Norwegian Independent Company which was an so eat run group of norwegians for commando training and then spy training. The idea was that this operation would land and landed in octobe. They landed in the area, they skied, i said they skied, they had so much equipment that to go the number of miles they needed to go they would ski a distance of six or seven miles, stop, drop their bags, go back six or seven miles, pick up their seven second have their bag of ski back again, over the course of roughly ten days. To reach the landing site they were on the ground, they were preparing, theyre setting up what was called the rebecca beacon which was a homing device for the plane to be able to spot the landing site. Now, i dont want to forget the royal engineers. These were very brave young men who were told very little of what they were getting into. They were were told simply this was an important operation, they were not told they were going to norway. But they were told it was important enough that it could decide the fate of the war. They were asked, who wants to participate . Every man man in the company stepped forward. Mid november, 1942, operation freshman begins. This is is the glider that you see there. The glider pilot called the horse seat glider, they nicked named it the wooden coffin. Being inside inside of it was as they described being inside or been on top of a bucking bronco or riding a roller coaster. It was made made of wood, it had a corrugated steel floor because there is so much involvement, they had harnesses but they did very little. They were on a mission across the north sea, the furthest for this that any glider had ever been towed and the idea again was to land and then commence the operation. It did not go as planned. The Radio Operator for operation sends a transmission early that morning saying all of the weather is clear, by the evening when these planes arrived in the dark, the cloud covered had lower, the the wind had picked up, the colt had deepened, and it was a very different place. What we do know is the first glider, the tow rope snapped, the first glider, glider a crash into the mountainside. The second glider pair, were not exactly sure what happened. We do know that they separated the other glider crashed into the hillside. What we suspect is the halifax circled around to see where the glider had landed, it too crashed. Those who were not killed on impact were captured by the germans, some of them were tortured, interrogated, and then sadly killed. Beside the loss of life, the 41 men, the germans now know the allies are coming. If they suspected it before, they knew now. It was already at Natural Force set in this very deep valley, but now it became even more so. They doubled the security, they doubled the number of guards, they increase the mine field, they fortify the singling suspension bridge. Any subsequent operation against remote would be what the germans thought would be impossible. Not within 24 hours of the catastrophe of operation freshman, colonel wilson and others went to combine operations which was in charge of operation freshman and said we would like to take over this mission. Let us do our jobs. They come in many ways wash their hands of it. They said please, it had been such a disaster. So they select and decide this is what were going to do with wilson, were going to send a six man team, operation gutter side, this is five, i can count. [laughter] we will send a six man team, they will drop into the area, into the vita, they will connect up with operation grouse, together they wont move towards the plant and destroy it. While operation freshman, the idea was to both hit the heavy water facility in the basement but also to eliminate some other parts of the plant, this operation, this operation was solely focused on destroying the basement level heavy water plant. It was led by the young running bird, there on the bottom, youre right. Young man, no combat experience. His secondincommand was dashmac, his nickname, nickname, this tells you everything you need to know about him. His nickname was bonzo. He was actually born in brooklyn, return to norway when he was a young child he was a bit of a rascal and they and like many he found his way to england to be trained the six man team led by rotenberg who, although, although he did not have combat experience all his report and again we have all the reports that they had during the training he said a natural leader, cunning, the the men follow him without question. He became so good at these Training Operations that they were doing in scotland that he then became in charge of them. He led the norwegians, norwegians, many of them, most of them older than he was on these missions. So now operation gutter side is moving far, there are preparing sleeping bags, rations, and everything they need and everything was very intensive about it there is a number of reasons why things were delayed over the course of two months, mostly the weather, the weather over the north sea in norway and in december, january is not so nice. So the operation was delayed one after the next. Finally at one point there on a plane, going there, going across the norwegian coast and their hit by antiaircraft artillery. Plaintiff barely stumbled. The trouble with all of that delay is that operation grouse is still there. This looks like a cozy place to spend your winter, doesnt it . After freshman operation grouse has to escape, theres a manhunt for anyone who is involved in helping the british so these gentlemen escape up into the vita, a place where legend has it grows so cold, so fast that flames in the fire. They go to a one room cabin and these four men, they have very little food, very little assistance and now they need to survive the winter. Alone. They survive basically off of reindeer. They hunted reindeer, they eat they eat only reindeer. They become such connoisseurs of reindeer that they would write about their favorite parts of the reindeer. Does anyone want to note the favorite part of the reindeer . Anybody . Yes. Do you know . No. This may be a little gruesome but there is a fat behind eyelid that is quite delectable. They survived but they are getting weaker and weaker. Thankfully, in mid february gutter side finally lands, now a lot of things are not going well. This is another factor, they land and what the man called the worst blizzard they had ever seen hit. A blizzard so strong that they were literally lifted off of their feet and thrown backwards by the wind. They are in the cabin they luckily find, they waited out for five days, they emerge in this landscape that looks as if they said totally transformed by snow. They finally meet meet together, operation gutter side, operation grouse, these ten men, and i will not forget it some point in time he was saying was operation grouse in the cabin and providing batteries, he was skiing constantly back and forth, continually to provide intelligence. But he is not on this mission. He in some way is too important, much less the other Radio Operator to go on this. So it is nine men that are going to participate in operation gutter side. They meet together, they together, they go to a cabin that overlooks their note and they decide how theyre going to hit the plant. Now the germans as i said now suspect that the attack is going to come across the loan suspension bridge. Doubly guarded, 22 gates, if they manage to eliminate the guards they will mostly be an alert to so they discount that. Secondly they can come down from the mountains that you see above, you can see the pipelines actually where the water is coming down that feeds the hydroelectric plant. They could could come down there. Theres actually stairwell there. The promise there are minefields littered all of that place. So they decide not to do that. Back in london theyre looking at aerial photographs and noted, force theres a valley and some trees growing up and maybe you can go down the valley and just climb up and then make your way down the railway line that hugs the edge of the cliff side and reach the plants. While the local boys, this operation grouse which were all local boys said no, these are boys whose parents would say, at ten or 11 years old, go out onto the vita and have a great three day camping. But their parents told them never climb this cliff side. At one point a car crashes in their youth and men have to rappel down with ropes, that is is how steep parts of it were. They said maybe you should do it, now theyre there and says i think thats a great idea, bonzo is all forward, running berg is not sure, but they have this idea, they go down and climbed down and this will be the only way that they can get in. Without alerting anyone. So running berg takes a vote. He wants the men to participate in the decision to be brought in on the decision and they vote to climb this cliff side. So on the night of february 20 seventh, twentieth, they ski down from their cabin, they take off their skis at some point because it is too steep, the heck down they almost get mowed over by get mode over by a bus of german soldiers coming up to the plant, they reach down into the valley and now theyre at the base of this 500foot cliff where they need to climb. Running berg later recall saying, he later said it look like being on the street and looking up at a skyscraper. And thats what he needed to climb. Of course the norwegians they do it, they managed to scale, scramble up this cliff side. They reach the railway lines, they move down, moved down, they wait till the guard rotation shifts. They snap the lock, on the gate they split into two teams, the covering party and ronan berg leads the two men, demolition teams. They reach the plant, they they have everything they need to know, then the know the door is going to be open, they reach the door and the door is shut. Thankfully they had everything they needed to know as i said earlier about this plan. They knew there there is a tunnel that carried pipes into the plant. So they decided to go up the ladder, they shimmied through the rough concrete tunnel, they they drop into the basement level of vermouth and there is nobody there. The germans never thought that anyone could possibly get inside so they left it on guarded. There is a single foreman watching over the heavy water plant. He, although scared was not putting up any resistance to these men who are coming in and british uniform same they were british speaking norwegians, and they set the explosives perfectly, theres explosion, theyre running out, theyre throwing themselves down this cliff side and they are on the run. Now, and some of the presentations i like to say thats half of the book. Thats half the story. There isnt much more and it literally is the Halfway Point of the book because what they did not expect is that the germans needed this heavy water so badly that although they destroyed the supply, they destroyed the machinery within the span of roughly five months they reconstituted the plant, it was producing heavy water again and not only was a producing heavy water again but down and recon there is to hydroelectric facilities that now, to Hydrogen Facilities that now are being converted to produce heavy water as well. But i will leave you to read the book and figure that out, but what i do want to end with are some themes that come out of this story that i think are important to highlight. The first as i mentioned with cheddar lynn is toughness, how tough they were. I will give you one example. Clouds. Clouds was from recount and was part of operation grouse. After the gutter side operation there was even more massive manhunt. The germans avoided on the occupation of norway and read the vita. They went around it. Now, the head of the ss in norway is so upset at this that he decides to send an army into the vita. Many of them not perfectly good skiers but some of them good ones. Clouse waits this out and a friend writes a letter saying its over, youre safe to return, the letter was wrong. Classes at one of the cabins where they had buried some explosives, he had his skis often was warming himself when he sees out the window three german skiers coming towards them. To reach this cabin he had already skied roughly 25 miles. It seems like a Long Distance to me. He sees them and he throws on his skis and he is off. He is thinking pretty good about himself because this is his terrain and hes an expert skier and he distanced themselves quickly from two of them but there is one austrian skier who is holding on tight. They ski for hours. And what he notices is when he goes uphill he gave gains distance and when he goes downhill they close the gap. So clouse decides that hes going to climb every mountain, every bump he can find to get away. And this goes on and on and the austrian wont give up. So finally clouse having enough turns, stops levels his gun and waits for the german tissue. His theory is that the setting sun is in his eyes, the austrians tire, hes nervous, hes nervous, hes not going to have good aim and clouse is tired of skiing. Pop, pop, pop, the german misses. Clouse does one shout, shoes, wounds the austrian falls over and clouse is off. Now quickly needing to ski because he knows more men are coming clouse skis off a cliff in the middle of the night, 50, 60 feet he thought, lands, breaks his arm, dislocated shoulder, gets up, skis another for distance into the morning number one pull to a village. I will leave out the story where he lands himself into a hotel that the gestapo takes over that evening. The second thing i would raise is the theme of sacrifice. How much these men sacrifice for the war, for what they were doing. She underlined for one, his two brothers were taken by the gestapo in prison outside of oswald for almost one year. His best friend was seized, interrogated, tortured, over the span of two months trying to find out information about what it was doing. But the person i will bring out here is mostly after the operation he decides he is going to stay in norway, his going to build resistance which was essential because of the fact that there would need to be another lastminute sabotage, the sinking of the ferry carrying the heavy water away. At one point he is in oswald collecting forged documents for his budding resistance circle and he had been living underground now since the invasion of norway so now going on over three years and had not seen his wife, had not seen his parents, had not seen his sister, any family because it is a bad idea. Hes in the apartment, theres a knock on the door and someone comes in and he hears his fathers voice. There is nothing that he wants to do more then push open that door, embrace his father, see him, but he cant. It was last time he would have a chance to see his father. His father was father was taking by the gestapo soon afterward, imprisoned and by the time he left prison he was broken and died soon after. He wrote in his norwegian memoir, for some reason the american, the english edition did not have it but he wrote a dedication to his father in his memoir. The dedication read he died not knowing why. The last thing i would say is the theme would be teamwork. Now again, much like that story of skinner jumping through that whole which wasnt really the case you hear and read as he movies about the story and these gentlemen dont have doubts, they are gung ho the whole way through, there bonds owes the whole way. That is not the case. He recounts as the head of operation grouse after being in the cabin for over two months, again, remember this is now winter in norway, its probably like, only a few hours a day. Its very cold there surviving off only rain, they dont have any electricity, start, and they are theyre going slightly mad in some ways. He writes of losing hope of wondering when hes ever going to get there. Is any of it worth it. Why are we putting up with this. Why cant we just go skied our families are. In real life those dreams that theyre having, those platters of food being brought to them at the table. And he knew that if he didnt do something about it, if you did make a change they were not going to make it through that winter. And the fact is if they didnt make it through that winter, if it did not survive gutter side never wouldve and never wouldve happened. So there is a wonderful scene where foreman began telling each other stories. To entertain it to other, to keep the time going to build this teamwork that they were in this together. Clouse recounts of telling terrible poetry. Apparently he was a terrible port. And one who was a really good family and they had the rules of hunting. These four guys knew those well by the end of the winter. The plumber, he dissected plumbing for these guys. By the end of the work they could fix any toilet, anyplace with a plumbing problem. But as much much as this kind of funny it brings sort of like the teamwork of how important it was, what sustain these guys, what sustain grousing gutter side but for critical moments. I will conclude with two short things. One, there is a lot of at least historically was it important. Was this operation important. We know we know that in june of 1942 the germans decided in a meeting that they are not going to move forward with the Manhattan Project. And so all the money and resources that the americans throughout the problem the germans are not going to do that. So many say that yes this mission was brave because these gentlemen did not know what the allies, with the germans were doing and that is definitely the case. What we do also know is that this june meeting they decide will continue with Atomic Research and is told that if you manage to produce a selfsustaining reactor we will shower you with resources. Was it the critical difference that the fact he didnt have heavy water for that . I would say its part of the reason that the germans never attained a heavy rector and never move forward with a bomb program. He himself credits appeared in the war norwegian sabotage stopped him and stopped the bomb program. My opinion is it was part three. I will conclude with a man who finally got his wish to fight not just in london but to go into his country, parachute into his country and leave small army and the resistance to repel the germans out. He was killed early in 1945 by collaborator, he never got to see the freedom of norway but i want to bring back the reason these guys were fighting again because as much again as it was about atomic physics and about stopping hitlers bomb, they were doing it for their towns and villages and they wrote a letter to his wife as captain and save in london that gave the secretary a key and said in the event of my death i want you to give this to my wife. And he gave me this letter, he read it to me and it was in the region, do not speak the region. But read it to me in norwegian and translated it for me. I promised him that i would read it and talk about it. When i gave these talks. Dearest, i have the honor to lead and a porn expedition home which will be of great importance in norways future. It is in line with the course i chose on april 9, 1940 to put all my effort and ability toward our countrys welfare. The war is singing its last first. It requires every effort from all who call themselves men. You will understand that once you. We have had some of the magical, happy years and my highest wishes to continue that happy life together. But should the almighty have another course for me, know that my last thought was a view. Time is short, but if all will not go well do not feel sorry for me. I am completely happy and thankful for what i have had in life even though i very much would like to live to help norway back. I wish the best, i look forward to seeing them all again. And then the letter was signed, your beloved, that think very much. [applause]. Ill try that one. So we have time for a few questions if anyone has questions for neil im sure there must be one or two out there. While youre pondering your questions im going to assert my prerogative. So these norwegian commandos were human, not superman, but pretty pretty remarkable individuals who did something amazing, after the war did they go on become plumbers again, i imagine men were capable of doing this sort of thing and then who do it, i imagine im going to the military are becoming war correspondents or Something Like that, do you know anything about their postwar lives. Some of them continued in the military. For instance, powell said it, run a bird became a broadcaster, clouse was for many seasons a tour guide, they all took different courses. What i would say about their post war lives are two things. One, these episodes in this life that they live their sort of imprinted itself on them. Sometimes in haunting ways. The daughter told me that you would never approach einar from behind. Because he was always, he lived on the ground, he lived in a cabin cabin where at any moment the germans could come and he never lost that. Some of them went to heal their wounds by going into the woods for weeks at a time. I think in some ways he has the most extraordinary story because he himself fell wounded psychologically after all of this time. He decided to join, he joined the tiki expedition. So he lived another extraordinary life. I think they they all did in their own ways. The other thing i would say as they were very tight knit, most of them over the course of their lives. Many of them gathered every years in a hunting cabin in the south until four stories but also just in some ways nobody else understood them. If you hold on one second we have a microphone coming for cspan. Thank you so much for your interest in thoughtful presentation. I happen to serve at the American Embassy and the underground museum. And i recall there is a mention of this episode, the bomb being of the heavy water facility, and this museum is documented with the sinking of the which had 1500 of the german was also enabled they were not able to catch or force to capture the city. They also came to escape, so that that museum it was a major source of information about the resistance, i agree with you. The norwegian resistance new museum was both in absolute resource for me. Their archives are tremendous. I focus on the story of remote, i talk about the Norwegian Independent Company but i think also, processed war to a man these individuals says their most important job was not vermouth. It was other operations thereon. There is quite a number of companies in norwegian independent men, many of them lost their lives, they participated in scores of operations and if you read the diaries, vermouth is definitely in there. Its in their every month or so there is a little mention of it. But there is a litany of other operations. Theyre all named after, many of them were named after birds. So there, so its fascinating. The whole story. The young gentleman in the third row from the aisle. Well will take both of them. They both have their hands up. Go ahead. What is a minefield . And if we want to get one from here as well. If the german making the heavy water wide and didnt they continue with the bomb program . So the mine field first of, a minefield is basically the germans and other countries they put these explosives underneath the ground and they have a setting that can explode them. Many of them, most of of them were taken away after the war and all of them in the room look area so are totally safe now. The question about. Like how does it react, like explode . How does it explode, in many circumstances it is the weight so lets say an animal is going through a minefield, if a host stepped on it that weight would trigger it to go off. The question of what did they continue to do because the germans reconstituted the plant, the allies in some way got their way, there is a major Bombing Mission with hundreds of b17 and be 24 bombers, exactly with what they predicted would happen did. The plant was not touched. A number of civilians were killed, but the consequence of that, although the heavy water facility was stopped, the germans decided at that point, i read a report that one german official said from rukh to berlin saying the norwegians have made a national sport, quote unquote of sabotaging her book. We need to move it. So, you find that in february february of 1944 they in fact begin to dissemble the plan, begin to bring all the heavy water into the barrels and as i mentioned very briefly that was the stage for the lastminute sabotage and once and for all the german use of heavy water from norway. Other questions. Were back there. Well well come back to we get a chance. Was there any connection or contact between these people in their efforts and moberg, the american baseball player and linguist who is supposed to survey . I love the story of moberg. A baseball player turns by, there is a wonderful book called the catcher as the spy. I believe that is the title. Its one of the reasons i turned onto this topic because i found that so fascinated that mo would go to germany and the plan was that if heisenberg if it was clear that heisenberg was participating they would potentially kill him. He had no contact at all, this was the american osf handling these operations and there was a clear demarcation between the soa and the osf in terms of norway in these operations. Other questions. We will take one more here and then we will call it an evening. What does heavy water look like . Thats a fantastic question. It looks exactly like regular water. You cant tell the difference. It just looks just like this. In fact one could argue there is heavy water and a very small quantity in here. But it looks the same and some say it tastes the, but i dont suggest drinking it. It does, scientists have shown that if you drink it in large quantities it changed biological processes which is one of the reasons they built it is because they thought one of the heads they thought would cure cancer. Its not proven to do that. But it looks just the same. On that no, let me mention to those of you who do not see where he came in, i believe we have back there downstairs, laura the nice young lady waving her hand has a vial of heavy water from north he drove which you can look at. Nearby is also some drinks and refreshments which as far as i know do not contain heavy water. [laughter] for which we can thank the Norwegian Embassy. Thank you very much. I hope you will join us at the reception, lets please ill, and the book signing, thank you you can get your book signed down there. You can chat with our friends from the Norwegian Embassy. Thank you for coming and have a great have a great evening [applause]. Thank you everyone. [inaudible] [inaudible] a book tv is on instagram. Follow us for publishing news, schedule schedule updates and behind the scene pictures and videos. Instagram. Com book, underscore tv. Steve is the publicity manager for the university of Illinois Press, steve, what new books rdf coming out this fall. We have great titles come out this fall including one that is a look at the history of the atlantic slave trade. Its called slavery c. It is really one of the first indepth book of the mechanics of slavery and the making of slaves as they were being transported in bondage from one continent to north america. It really shows how this process happened stepbystep. Explains it explains a lot of how the process of slavery transformed the spirits of people to be put in that position. That will be coming out in november. What else you have . We also have a book by michael so close which looks at the 1936 olympics. Theyre commonly called the nazi olympics. Its called six minutes in berlin, its called six minutes in berlin, some people may be familiar with the story of the American Group rowing team that won the gold metal that year. People know jesse owens when in the gold medal that as well. That olympic was really the first time that the Worldwide Sports Media Business got started. In the six minutes in berlin are the six minutes that race took, broadcast live around the world for the rowers to win and defeat the favored nazi rowers. Can you you give me history of the university of Illinois Press send what books to publish. We are approaching in 2018 hour 100 year of publishing out of the university of illinois. We represent all three campuses on the university of illinois. Were based in champaign, urbana bowie represent the chicago campus in the springfield campus. We have been publishing and a variety of subjects over the 100 years as he may have thought from what were talking about, history is a strong subject force. Music and american roots music are big subjects for us as well as labor history, africanamerican africanamerican history, and a number of other titles. One more titles for. One more title that is exciting and interesting is a little bit of an expansion from our work in mormon studies. It is called bearing witness. Its an edited collection that holly welfare is put together and it is the first and story of the 36 mormon women in all spectrum of this stage representing different stories of how they deal with marriage, how they deal with love and sex. How they deal with marrying outside the mormon religion and the pressures that come in in some cases to have a very traditional mormon relationship. Its a very interesting book and ties in with some of our feminist media studies. Was that coming out. Thats coming out in september. Youre the manager to the university of Illinois Press. Thank you. When i tuning on the weekends usually its authors sharing their new releases. Watching nonfiction authors on book tv is the best television for serious readers. On cspan they can have a longer conversation and delve into their subjects. Book tv, weekends. They bring you author after author after author. That spotlight the work of fascinating people. I like book tv and i am a cspan fan. Good evening, and welcome