[applause] it is a pleasure to be here the book was published a few days ago and it is great to have you here to help launch its. I would like to to set the scene. Seven youre more familiar but even though it comes from the end of the story of the popes last. The pope is they dont in his office, elderly, a leading, he begs god to give him a few more days to live. He has something he needs to say and realizes he has very little time left on the earth. For years the pope had been in good health the road as the robust mountaineer pope clyde v. Many alpine peak. He was known as impervious, demanding and about it insisted on knowing every detail of everything going on in the vatican to make all the decisions. But now every day was the challenge and every step caused paid. He was unable to sleep at night and had terrible varicose veins period he had asthma that made breathing difficult. As he lay awake, he was troubled not so much his paid but by the thought something had gone terribly wrong. In the daytime light would come in and through the three large windows overlooking st. Peters square but now as he sat at his desk with the lamp from the light on his desk carefully writing on sheets of paper. The pope had summoned all the bishops of italy to see peters for an occasion to take place and about 10 days time on february 11th february 11th, 1939, the tenth anniversary of the historic agreement between the Italian Government pretreat mussolini and the fascist regime and the vatican that established vatican city as a sovereign state and did away with the separation of church and state and italy in a big cave Roman Catholic church the privileged position. All the bishops were summoned and mussolini representatives would be there the world would be watching. It was a speech the pope saw as his last opportunity to get out a crucial and erratic message. That is what were trying to look for. They both came to power 1922 a rabble rouser by rebate leading the ragtag troops on a march answer extortion come to power just a few months after the pope came to power. The dictator came to depend on the pope and vice versa. Even though they seem so radically different. The dictator would depend on the pope to bring him catholics support although there were anticlerics but for the most part the population was very much identified with the Catholic Church. Mussolini needed the support as one of the largest opposition parties which was endorsed by the previous poll. At the time there was a priest so for mussolini to come to power then solidify it he had to end the influence of the party to get the pope to withdraw and debris some the other thing mussolini was concerned about to earn legitimacy and to tell a very important role. Now the pope made the deal 1922 was Mussolini Mussolini in recent years he thought he was becoming a god himself. Is a thing that bothered the pope was his embrace of hitler beginning in the mid 30s, the pope grew more and more uncomfortable. They 1938, mussolini host did hitler hid rome for a visit and the pope discussed it, fled the vatican and went to his retreat to and showing his displeasure was distraught at the kind of reception italy was giving to this man. I have a shot here of the visit. Two months after hitler is portrayed along with mussolini and hitler was the dramatic announcement of racial policy by mussolini. July 1938 and the jews in particular were shocked to hear the official position of the pure italian race to which judge use of italy who were there before the tide of jesus were not apart than the pope was very upset in particular would show the increasing closeness of the fascist italian dictator with the nazi leader. People around the pope become worried because they are very pleased by the deal that has been made between the vatican by all the benefits the church has gotten from the soviet worried the pope in his old age may damage those relations. As his headquarters of the another side of the tiber river, messily be paged against the Pope Mussolini raged against the pope and made the deal because he thought it was then his interest of the fascist dictatorship but had no sympathy for clerics. He would tell people how dare the pope expressed criticism look at what i have done to people of his staff and also his lover the italians still go to mass because i tell them to. [laughter] priests are not enforced theyre not prevented because i prevent if there is a crucifix in every classroom in every Public School in the country because i ordered it to be there. If priests were teaching the catholic religion the elementary through secondary because i made them. They did not before. If large state subsidies went to the local parish priest it is because i ordered it how dare the pope think to break the alliance that was so profitable for both sides. So while this was going on getting back to the vatican on that late j. You very tight, and 1939 the pope is in very bad shape his face is shrunken it is clearer he is preparing his speech to the bishop of rome and i found out from his correspondence he was convinced to denounce his embrace of hitler and fascism. In the zero weeks remaining remaining, the pope began to lose strength and he took to bet. On february 8, worried he may not have enough strength to give a speech he ordered the Vatican Printing office to make 350 copies of this speech to hand out to each bishop as they came on february 11th. On the Early Morning february than before the dramatic speech his breathing was further labored there was an oxygen mask put around his face careful not to dislodge the cap on his head. The officials of the vatican were called to his bedside realizing the last moment maybe the ear and early that morning february 10th, he died. One day before he would give the speech. Soap his wish to god to keep him alive was not been answered but the timing led to conspiracy theories that they can talk about later. Of course, the news of the popes death this selene granted one dash mussolini granted. Casinos ritual activities may interfere with his latest coupling with the latest distress but what we do know that bothered him from the archives, he had a sick network of spies of the vatican that provided invaluable insight to behind the scenes activities in the 20s and 30s. They had warned him that the pope was about to give a speech denouncing him said he was very worried and her copies of the speech had been made and he thought the pope is no more but what if they were to be heard beyond the grave so mussolinis sent the ambassador when the pope seemed to turn against the fascist christie regime went to the secretary of state and he told him what he wanted done. Immediately the destruction of every copy a few weeks later masses of people gathered in st. Peters square for signs of white smoke that they saw when the telltale white smoke cable out of the chimney walking from st. Peters square in said we have a pope and the new pope strolled out a tall fed spectacled figured to be closed in the white rhode and gave his blessing. He would take the name pius the 12th. A. M. This is the ritual that takes place when the secretary of state phil the office of timberland who is in charge of the vatican and he has a silver hamper where he hits the head of the dead pope saying the christian name and when he does not respond pronounces him officially dead. When he was a cardinal then the next slide shows his coronation of pope pius xii. This is the season that begins the book for sets the stage for our discussion. Looking back at 1922 with their robust men come to power in the save year. The pope was not only as vigorous but also known as a tyrant. Cardinals to prepare themselves with the meeting with the pope would get on their knees in the chapel to pray to god to see them through without the pope yelling at them or finding them wanting. And the pope reading these firstperson accounts where the pope would turn purple with rage pound on his desk and keep yelling at a foreign ambassador to the holy see where he has been unhappy with something his country has done. But he also had a high of the developed sense of dignity for the office interesting today with pope francis making news with very symbolic actions that seemed to appeal that a wave like for example, from the day he became pope insisted his brother and sister refer to him as your holiness. [laughter] also for the 70 years he was poked never allowed anyone to sit down at the table where he ate. Not even a cardinal. This is different than some of his predecessors said he was continuing a tradition that all had obeyed. The vision of the church was medieval in which there was only one True Religion of the Roman Catholic church and all should talk to his teachings. But mussolini was in many ways his opposite the rabil browser rabblerousers who had a notion of a new society of the new italy in the space italian. He was a radical socialist he was the National Editor of the daily newspaper and only with the outbreak of world war wind that he had a division with the socialist party. He founded the fascist movement that was formally founded 1918 and was anticlerical so the First Program called for confiscation of property with separation of church and state. To have some sense of mussolini, the pope did not like to travel or appear at public rallies perhaps john paul ii would give a mass rally nothing that this pope did. In fact, 1870 when italy conquered rome remembered only came about when and italian troops storm though all of this city the pope retreats to the vatican he made peace with the church no pope ever left the vatican. So do understand the impact impact, you have to understand that long period of time the team is excommunicated the Prime Minister is excommunicated no good catholic should even vote for parliament that recognizes the legitimacy that took away the papal states of the pope. When mussolini comes to power despite the fact the pope had no illusions as mussolini did not have a religious bone in his body but he said to his associates, god works in strange ways a new and a person in fact, the of pope led famously say he was sent by providence to restore a the society with the separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Mussolini also had a preference for authoritarian regimes has no love of democracy as multi parties were a problem did not want to negotiate a deal then to find out the next year there was a new parliament elected. Whole set of reasons why. Let me talk about one important aspect the archives of the vatican were just opened in 2006 and also what we can now do is triangulate documents from this of the archive stand for the minister from jesuit and other archives setter only recently available. Now we get a pitcher we never previously had. Just to give you an idea how this relationship worked worked, therein it is a jesuit, an absolutely crucial figure who has never before been understood or know about yet it was central shortly after mussolini comes to power the pope and mussolini agree they need a private intermediary and they choose this man, he would meet oneonone with mussolini basically once a month no one that that often with the mussolini before going to meet with mussolini he would go to the vatican to beach with the pope he would carry each month new demands to benefit the church. They go from the trivial the pope was very concerned about the real modesty and a modest clothes, bathing suits or pajamas and insisted that mussolini do something. [laughter] there are other examples like expiries those who will leave the priesthood even back then the only way it normally they could support themselves was to get jobs teaching in the local schools and they would be in a rural village. This was never allowed one popes were in power in the papal states that was a scandal to have the x priest seen in public so he made where they were teaching mussolini be sure there were fired. That actually includes a one of the articles testified no x bright six priest could teach in Public School in italy. Another thing he was concerned about he said at 1. The first thing he wanted to talk about was the gravest problem in italy was protestant proselytizing city would call on him to confiscate literature and so forth. What of the interesting things for me is the irony the pope calls on the fascist dictatorship that mussolini does not want to take. But there did come a time where the pope begins to have second thoughts about this collaboration. It probably begins with mussolini decision to invade ethiopia in the fall of 1935. In late august making noise about his intentions and league of nations is threatening a boycott the pope in remarks to an unrelated audience of nurses for italy to invade would be the and just work to be terrible. The people around the pope are horrified because they are supposed to be published the next day in the vatican newspaper and they are convinced this will antagonize mussolini who is trying to drum up public support for the war on ethiopia. We have the diary of the under secretary of state who tells us what he did. That evening i took the transcript of the popes remarks before publication and he performed quotations and a surgical operation quotation now i quote from his diary as undersecretary of state here i cut the word and there i added another than to modify a sentence and there i erase another. the text that appears the next day have no reference to the opposition to the invasion of ethiopia. In the years following mussolini began to embrace hitler they had a peculiar relationship he kept a big bust in modeled on the march on rome but after hitler comes to power mussolini is pleased with a fluttered by the fact he is looked up to buy the new chancellor of germany but also thinks hitler is crazed and has his doubts some of whom he says belong in the insane asylum. The height of this drama comes with those racial laws coming into effect late summer or early fall of 1938. I have the gingrich of the publication put out by the Italian Government campaign that has a lot of illustrations it is a way to enlist for the antisemitic campaign. What do those long as the . You may have seen the film or read the book which portrays some of this all too wished kids were kicked out of School Teachers and professors were performed fired they cannot practice their profession and National Honor society was thrown out. This cave as a shock to the World Community because unlike hitler fascism and mussolini had not been previously known to be antisemitic. There were jews who were fascist. Accord to the accounts italy they fought against those racial laws as to the pope but yet as a show in my book this is inaccurate in to the campaign, a large part with the official publication the pages that have to be approved in advance through this time call for withdrawing the equal rights in the middle of august the daily newspaper publishes an article that says there needs to be restrictions on the pernicious view it is taken up by fascist publications to justify the campaign. But this said the pope himself was uncomfortable with the racial laws for a variety of reasons for cody was not concerned with the threat the italian jewish was onetenth of 1 . But also concerned it seemed like another sign to cast fate with the not cc and hitler. What i discovered he was convinced to make a deal and not known until recently to make a secret deal with mussolini having to do with the imposition before the racial laws were introduced. I have a text just to give you an idea here is the text of the jesuit on for a the designed by bruce levy but mussolini he bragged to hitler i know how to handle the pope. Take lessons from the. He knew upheld all was important was the catholic action organized down to the local parish where control is involved in the question visitation of the italian society. So when mussolini wanted to put pressure on the pope paul he had to do was take action and recently the with the pope was upset about the racial laws, decided not to renounce to use fascist publications and to would still at Catholic Jack shad was antifascist sometimes against local catholic action groups so this is the context as he makes a deal with this lady one thing i discovered in the documents have is that for years he had been trying to convince mussolini of the jewish threat. The pope had not but he was sending his envoy to make the argument using the opportunity he would argue ty began that they were enemies of fascism and mussolini needed to irritate steps. Needed to take steps. But in this deal there are three points number two and number three were the quid pro quo that said if you go along with one we will take off catholic action you could not be a good fascist but number one has to do with problems of racism and judeas some. That the pope agrees as long as the new antisemitic rules are no worse than they are applied during the papal states that the pope will ensure that not only he will not speak out but no priest will either is a fairly explosive document and since it has been discovered there has ben a strong reaction of defenders that had there was the opponent of racial laws and they tried to deny this is what it is not only this document battle whole series that talk about the dealings of the pope as this is negotiated. Later, we see the pope has doubts and people around him work feverishly. We will come back to this. Now secretary of state is central to these efforts as well. Just before concluding, what more collapse august 38 worry about what the popes position will be he asks his italian ambassador to help him. In addition one man they thought would be helpful is the overall head of the jesuit order. Since 1953 and we know from the correspondents why he went to visit this man. I went to see him become as i know of his impeccable loafing for the jews. Intent a and he blames them for all of europes problems with the account of the italian ambassador miti early august were the superior general Ambassador Says we do all we case and to prevent the pope to breakout or speak out but the secretary of state and i dont know what to do because the pope is losing his mind. How the judges threat a jesuit general puts it, all this is put to jeopardy. So this is a little flavor of what we can tell with archival evidence but i conclude dc bias rollback 11 as a tragic figure and was not prepared for the job he had to do of course, no one could foresee the advent of fascism and his medieval conception and of authority did not prepare him for the accommodations with the authoritarian regimes may lead. And also a tragic figure that people around him were working day and night for what he felt was his mission to speak out against this. For his part, mussolini lists never comfortable around priest, churches, not allowing pitcher with himself of nuns or the monks to be published. Even though they were different and only have one meeting all that time facetoface then the pope who hailed mussolini by providence had a very different view of the dictator. Mussolini plus lot happier. He kept complaining not only to his mistress but the bigwigs that pope pius xi was a disaster. Thank you. [applause] i am happy to take your questions. Very interesting presentation. You alluded earlier but elusive to the end, that a lot of the pressure to the pope was from jesuits in some of the propaganda was catholic from just a wet newspapers are made the acting of his own volition and not as instructed by the pope. Was there a strong strain of antisemitism in the orders throughout the thirties and italy . Was it bad influential . Yes. There is a big difference between the United States and italy with United States there was a component that were progressive or fighting for Racial Justice in this period and one thing i did not mention you may have heard about the secret cyclical after hitler visits the region is a secret meeting with an american jesuit who is in rome and the father has been an important advocate for racial harmony and Racial Justice he had a book called Racial Justice calling the attention to the pope landed her regis to meet and asks him to draft a cyclical denouncing antisemitism. But that was on the desk the draft was on the desk when he died that also was buried but to give another illustration for the clergy and italy were big supporters but in the desolate just what american magazine and article was critical of mussolini he says the ambassador to meet with the general and says you have to do something and friers the longtime editor and replaces them with the pro fascists editor. Said that just a whit journal is seen as influential and is the artificial place of the pope and from the very beginning that had scores and scores of antisemitic material sum is picked up by the nazis as well. Not a very pleasant story at the time. Did the bishops survive . The difference between a novel and nonfiction now after 2006 we have gotten to see it. It was buried. All copies of the printed version were destroyed on orders at the request of mussolini but the regional hand written pages were not destroyed. Only after his death the 23rd release part of the text and we have the full text now and live like it to bring of the real break with fascism. It is the speech mussolini did not want to hear it warns the bishops there are fascists spies everywhere and complaints about racial ideology. It is very happy it was not as dramatic as he feared. What question generates the most curiosity right now . What would you like to explore or having answered . A good question. We have learned a lot. I feel we have a good understanding what was going on. But there are aspects that are still obscure but to understand his view of the jews is not entirely clear. How could he agree to that deal in august 1938 to go along with the racial laws . There is some conflict there we dont understand we know every time he tried to turn against it will fully understand that i dont think there is any doctor we havent seen but along the lines of the question there was a log of the daily meetings with the pope with various foreign on voice so when i found out it was one nova biggest surprises cover the first thing i went to look for is his diary disappeared and all the you have records for earlier period all of a sudden there are very few may be one injury doesnt say anything then another over three months then nothing for a couple of months so what do you make of this . There are three possibilities. [laughter] maybe he did not keep a diary the other is that we know the chili was sensitive of these documents had a removed in the third possibility is land the pope ordered these were ready for scholars it would take four years it is only 2006 so theyre working to catalog and at that point the eight were embarrassing to find out it is the cause of the right wing of the Catholic Church and anything to diminish the possibility was seen with occupation so i guess that is one thing i would want to know the most. Was the secret in some cyclical similar . Was it similar to the speech or different . There is the book you should read very good book that tells the story and it is disappointing. The pope had a problem he appointed the jazz a whit without letting anybody know in this state secretary of state nobody had to let the head of his order no. A couple days after he met with the father he calls into ditches so it general and tells him what he has done. We know from the correspondence that he thought the pope was mad and he insisted what did he go about writing a the cyclical . So he and sister more experts be added to the projects. And one father came from more traditional european perspective of the jews and had some influence they go to work we have only seen it in recent years a and is disappointing and a direct criticism but in terms of the jews in it is embarrassing but with the Second Vatican Council this all radically changes. The church rejects the demonization of the jews and has respect all the things that were rejected before. So to answer the question that has good parts but others we would regard as offensive to the jews. With the counterfactual if the pope pius xi lived another 10 years how much difference would it have made . With the news have been that much different . Is the institutional or would it have mattered . The german capacitor on dash ambassador roche had he lived there would have been a break with not to germany. Nazis germany. It is hard to know but this is the importance. The debate has been this raised to the question and what influence the pope could have had on hitler he was catholic after all by birth if they would excommunicate him but think about the relationship the pope had a huge impact in italy. Depressant for catholic and in germany was only onethird. The pope is the italian. The potential influence the pope had to denounce mussolini especially that mussolini is in a difficult spot to make the alliance with germany but the italians hate the germans have hundreds of thousands dead not that long before plus hitler is not sympathetic figure. And italians have a pretty good idea it does not include them. [laughter] so mussolini trying to convince italians to get on board with the aliens with nazi germany he has a challenge that is why if the pope had clearly spoken out that no good catholic could follow or embraces Heller Hitler i dont know the impact on germany but a big impact of italy but if the pope were younger and not in a position maybe that blood have been different. Babied not the holocaust for the second rule of war could be going to for. Five like to ask a question. I a understand the Italian Government did not send the jews away and the catholic government was very much for the of jews. No. There is a and narrative there was a Church Opposition to the racial laws and only one aspect in the fall of 1938 says a converted jews that became catholic should be treated as jews not catholic and could not legally marry a catholic kim the pope was irate because it went against Church Doctrine if you were baptize you should be considered catholic and able to berry and other catholic but one of the major provisions had given the churchs right to decide for Church Weddings what is a legitimate wedding registered with the state so it went directly against the agreement made with fanfare 1929. The complaints we go behind the scenes were entirely about this one issue never any vatican opposition to throw all the led jewish children out the schools or firing the teachers until the papal states were defeated in the 70s. Pius xii is a very controversial figure and enigmatic almost but it sounds as if your research has shed new light or what baggage he brought. Can you give us a sense of how you view during world war ii in light of what you know, with your research . Many if you are aware there is pressure on the vatican to open the archives ever since they played the deputy became a controversy with his failure to protest even though he knew what was happening was a very controversial issue. But the research i was able to do care is much more insight. Because once you are pope with evidence of your thinking with the official proclamations, but just before that with those years as europe was marching to war there was a huge correspondence that we have access to. The germa german ambassador, gt not the ambassador to work for his election and was relieved he was the the fascist and mussoi were working furiously to get him elected. Because again not because they saw him as a fascist or as a nazi but they saw him as an accommodate her, someone who would make a deal that as long as the rights and prerogatives of the church were protected, the other thing he was not going to get involved in fact the first meeting he would have after becoming the pope three days after being selected was with the nazi ambassador where he wanted to assure him that the regime was returned to the relationship between the vatican and the german third reich and what he said was, appeared phrasing, you know ive taken the position that its not up to the pope to make the decisions about the government that is a secular matter and im not going to take any position with respect to that. My concern is that in germany it be followed and the right, the proper rights of the church would be protected. Were there other questions . I guess we are done. [applause] [applause] [inaudible] if you are interested in having your book signed you can go to the back wall and get set up over here. For more information visit to the authors website, davidkertzner. Com. Douglas presents a history opresent the historyof america e reconstruction. Of the author report that close to 1500 africanamericans assumed Public Office including the first africanamerican u. S. Senators, rebels and joseph and sat on North Carolina supreme court. This is about 50 minutes. Thank you so much. Its nice to be here. I went to graduate school in washington in the 1980s and its always nice to be back