Wait, he says. Double or nothing i can tell you exactly what your profession is. The mathematician things this is unlikely, so says, sure, go ahead. The shepherd says, you are a world famous mathematicianings incredible, says the math ma tickings how could cue know . Well, says the shepherd, put down my dog and ill tell you. This reputation is not new. In 1914, william d. Lewis, the principle of william penn N High School in philadelphia rote about democratizing education and focused oN High School math mat makes. Misobjection he wrote is largely empire cal. I have seen so many pupils driven out of school by work which could not have any practical advantage to them, and i have watched so many classes, under the caption of algebra, i have come to believe we ought to discriminate as carefully as possible between those pupils who really need the advance mathematics and those who will find other work more profitable. 1914. What mathematics we teach in our schools, especially our high schools, has been debated for the past century. Often with an eye towards democratization and opportunities for students. Indeed much longer than a century, youve may be unaware that arithematic was not taught in Elementary School in the colonial period. Spelling, reading and writing constituted the clickum at that time. Arithematic was known as vulgar, and was needed and when it was needed, it was learn in the job. By the early 20th century, algebra and geometry was part over the curriculum in nearly every high school of the country bit the graduation raid it in 1900 was eight percent. Eight percent. And as Graduation Rates climbed over the comping decades the role of mathematics became a contentious issue almost everywhere. Mathematics was then, as it continues to be now, the most difficult of subjects for many students. The debate culminated at the end of the 20th century with three provocative and quite exceptional essays written by underwood dudley, a mathematics professor at depaul university, with the tiedles, why math, is mathematics necessary, and what is mathematics for . To the dismay of many ma mathematician heard there were many res to teach itself but utility wasnt one of them. Almost all jobs, he wrote, require no knowledge of algebra and geometry at all. He went on, where algebra were necessary for 5 of allols our algebra textbooks would be fill with on the job problems since examples would be to plentiful. This clearly not the case. The math mystery by andrew hacker, which is the catalyst for tonights discussion, is in many ways the child of this centurylong debate, as well as woody dudleys essays. Although i will say that the two authors reached very different conclusions. Is High School Mathematics serving society . What mathematics should be taught . Hugh should it be taught and why . These are hard questions, and i believe that fining answers to hard questions is best done in open and public discussion. That is why were here tonight. Our two speakers this evening are andrew hacker, and james hansen. Youll be glad to know i reached the point where i introduce them. An true hacker is a professor of Political Science at Queens College in the city of university of new york, where, in addition to teaching Political Science, he has taught experimental course an experimental course in mathematics, literacy. And he was an undergraduate at Amherst College and received his ph. D from princeton university. He taught at cornell from 1955 until the early 1970s, and since then, he has been on the faculty of Queens College. He is the author of ten books, and a sample of the titles suggest their reach. Two nations, black and white, separate, hostile, and unequal. Mismatch. The growing gulf between women and men. Higher education, i have to ask the question there. How colleges are wasting our money and failing our kids. And what we can do about it. In 1912 in 2012 he published an oped in the New York Times entitled is algebra necessary, which led to his most recent book, the math myth, and other stem delusions, setting the stage for tonights discussion. Whether or not you agree with the substance of these books, i am sure you will all agree that the titles are, every one of them, exceedingly clever. James tan ton grew up in australia and when he speaks tonight, you may detect that he is not a native of new york. He received his undergraduate degree in mathematics at Adelaide University and came to the u. S. In 1988, where he received his ph. D in mathematics, also from princeton university. After teaching at st. Marys college in maryland in exceptional liberal arts college, i might add, he followed his wife to boston where he soon turned his attention to general state of k12 mathematics. Eventually he found himself at a private school in southboro, st. Marks, where founds the st. Marks institute of mathematics. Then on to washington, dc where the serve as the Mathematical Association of americas visiting mag ma particulars turn and math naoma particulars in residence. James consults with schools all across the globe on the teaching of middle school and High School Mathematics. He it also the author of a number of books, solve this, math mat particulars activities for skouens and clubs. Mathematics galore and also the author of two word list puzzle books, without words and moor without words, both of which are being presently translated into serbian. I had offered to complete the translation for him tonight but james is also part of the global math project with a goal of initiating a fundamental change in the way we perceive and enjoy mathematics. Tonights presentation will be divided into six segments. Two 15minute presentations by each of our speakers to lay out the case, two eightminute responses from each, and then questions and answers from the audience actually thes are from the audience and presumably the answers from the speakers. Fooled by a short time for people to come up and talk individually with the speaker today. My job is to keep us on schedule and. At this point it is not my intention to put you out of business. I think yours is a grand and glorious calling. There are a total of last count. 217,584 teachers of mathematics in this country. I dont think it has anything to fear from me. Now, im a political scientists. Require everyone to do a certain thing. You have to pass a test. You have to have a child, the child has to be vaccinated. We understand. What interested me is in effect a governmental policy that we have which is that every single young person in this country for many the idea to have everybody study calculus. So my simple reason for being and writing my book can be summed up in one word. I understand we have some visual aides here, all right. I only learned this last minute so i brought one of my own. [laughter] thank you. And you may keep that up while im talking. Okay. We currently have another statistic 4 million 16yearolds and goal to have every single one of them enrolled in algebra two. We have coming up the common core and the common core, by the way is common core is for everybody. They say career and College Ready but everybody has to pass the common core test and they are tests which are going to be conducted nationally and algebra was going to be there. Well, we are going to be into some problems. The math requirement, the math hurdle if you like takes a tremendous toll every year. We ranked in the United States very low among developed countries, about 20th out of 28th in the number of our young people who finish high school, yes, our High School Dropout rate is 20 . One out of every five young people you see, major academic reason is failure a math class. We dont take exact figures on this but joe who is working has concluded that the majority of students eventually failed. Is this because theyre stupid or is it because or something of everyone that we really shouldnt be requiring universally. One out of five dont graduate. Of those that go onto college, 43 do not graduate. Thats close to 45 , yes, this is one of the highest College Dropout rates in the advance world. We have more colleges per capita but fewer people finishing college, why because colleges mindlessly require mathematics of everybody, even if youre going to major in poetry, modern dance, i interior design, you still have to have an algebra test to get on board. We are shooting ourselves in the foot. People who would be very skilled, talented and all sorts of fields are not being allowed to proceed or even at a junior college, somebody who wants Associates Degree certificate in cosmetology, lets say commercial art, even they had to have pass a math test. We hear reports saying 43 of people taking act, thats the test, they are not College Ready. 43 students taking act, college tests are not College Ready, you know what, because College Ready requires advance mathematics for everybody. As a result from very Good Students who might be in my College Class wont be there because of this requirement. Now, my book is called the math myth and, in fact, as more and more i studied what is happening here but discover that people that are entrerched im trying to be kind, entrerched in a certain profession, occupation, vocation will say anything to defend the status quo, this can be true of police officers. We have the american diploma project. Came out and said 62 of all occupations will need algebra, well, as woody this is certainly and at most 5 of occupations need algebra and above. I respect those in the course of writing my books. I went down to georgia where i went to engineers and i was just blown away by the way they use calculus to study the ice on winds. Fantastic thing i learned about ice. You certainly need mathematics and wall street, use calculus all of the time to study risks and the rest. Not 62 . At best 5 which is the question if if we are going to occupational terms why the other 95 have to take it. I dont want to get too much into the question, the stem story, we all know what stem means that theres a shortage of people with stem qualifications. In fact, people that have degrees in stem stem, less than half, only slightly a little bit more than a third are working in stem occupations. We are told we better watch out in the global competition because korea, china, singapore are far ahead of us in mathematics, its true. There are students score on the International Map test, you know, the test and others. They score high because they work 23 hours a day. The biggest illness among youngest people in korea, pediatricians write articles on this is sleep deprivation. They work 23 hours a day if i want to say this in the best way, if the International Competitions run chess or cross word pulz ls the chinese and the court inteans would score up there. The big challenge is not more math for us is getting kids to work 23 hours and i wouldnt advise that. Theres a question that math sharpens our minds. I agree that studying math and doing well at it sharpness your math with dealing with mathematics, thats for sure. Theres none whatever. I couldnt find any evidence. Hi, low versus history score, history use reasoning ability, weighing evidence, guess what . Correlation was zero, high on math, bombout in history, vice versa. Math does not help you in other fields. Now, there are certainly and im not sure i want to there is a view, for example, mathematician that i really respect, i keep his book like by the numbers on my bedside. One of the best book of showing a layperson what mathematics really is. He believes that mathematics is one of the greatest creations of the human mind, perhaps even the greatest, well, hey, i will go along with that. I simply ask, by the way, is mathematics something we created or is it something that we discovered. Could it be that mathematics is out there created by nature that we created calculus courtesy of newton had to discover it. Its like pie, for example. We didnt create pie but we had to find it and show how its used. In any event, i would really love for everybody to appreciate mathematics. But it isnt being done by making people year after year. I would love how they treat mathematics. Theres also reviews that mattics is objective which is to say theres one right answer and you dont have to worry about opinions. This may well be true. Mathematics has builtin biases of its own. Not so much the subject but the way we assess it and evaluate it. One thing we know i wrote a chapter in the book called gender gaps in mathematics. They do. We have enough studies across the board to show that act and we both know that. The girls get high grades. But when it comes to the test act, sat and psat men are always ahead. We are going continue to test people. They give girls and the young women a chance to show what they really known. It has consequences. One consequence is the National Merit scholarships. I went into this. You know what they are, do not give a gender breakdown of the winners. They refuse to do it. They hide that information. You know why . Because 53 , 53 of the people who enter the National Merit competition are girls, but boys end up getting 53 of the awards, why . Because they score 30 points higher, then the girls do on these tests. The same thing is going to happen with the common core. This is one reason why girls find it hard the other get into ivy league scores, 700 before we open the application on mathematics. 700. Twothirds of those 700 and above are boys. So as a result stanford, yale, for example are majority men, why because of the math barrier. Now, girls are doing okay but please, i need some advice, the country does on how to tests that indicate what they know. Now, math, of course, we are told requires, i have 30 seconds long . I will give you 30. Okay. [laughter] okay, i think my last comment here do i propose to abolish algebra, no, of course, but i do want to see other options and alternatives instead of the full sequence for everybody at tenth grade, we can work this out, begin to offer options like, very unbiased what i teach, i teach a class in my college in the math department, oh, yell, called about citizens statistics. Citizen statistics. How to look at the federal budget, it doesnt require any math, all it requires is adult arithmetic and i dont think we have to be ashamed of that at all. Thank you. [applause] now, james, all right. Thank you, this was a real treat for the nation to have this conversation and thank you for raising the interest. This is a really important conversation to have national concern, very much i appreciate you to bring it to the world. Its absolutely vital that we reconsider over and over again and you pointed out in your book, and thank you for coming along today and hopefully doing a video after words. So youre interested in the topic and truly wonderful that we adults, we parents are personally impelled to doublecheck truths ourselves and personally access the claims made that cannot weigh in the media or internet and in general conversations. We are brave enough to ask what we know and not to succumb to general impression and general qoan. I enjoy reading the book and i came away with an interpretation that might find surprising. I think dr. Hacker is arguing strongly, very strongly all the common core state standards in mathematics. A sense of deep concerns and public deceptions that think back before the conception of the common core and also mighty strong warnings about how not to implement the common score state standards. Like me, dr. Hacker doesnt want to old tricks, heavyhanded speed testing, putting number facilities, i couldnt agree more that these are real concerns and many components of the common core i know feel the same way. Let me try putting on the screen. Just im basing my discussion on math what is thank you. I brought some beautiful comments about the joy of mathematics here. And i would like to ask you to share about teaching mathematics. Im going to stop reading things so soon. I completely agree with dr. Hacker that we strongly focus on a path. A human story of mathematics as well as content. But actually the cob tent of High School Level can be argued as somewhat secondary. Ive never used the formula in my whole life, but learning that formula wasnt the point it was the story so that i know i love the human story of how mankind battled for the topic, surprising link between geometry and subject. Success of literally completing a square. While teaching mathematics the high school teacher, mathematical stories one can portray of the algorithm. Theres so much beauty right there on that subject. To me ultimate goal of education is people to see and consider and how to develop informed views and analyze what you think you know and be curious and be aware of achievements of mankind, shakespeare and revelation of completing of the square. Learn how to appreciate art using intellectual accomplishment. High school is really not known about content. Every topic away if your only looking for ewal u, when was the last time it helped you in life. Math is particularly good at teaching problemsolving and basic life skills. Thinking through challenges. How can you prove that from math or any subject but math offers human thinking as a piece to have one generals thinking repetoir. Each believe in the common core so we are deeply concerned about implementation in particular for the effects of testing that doesnt seem to ever go away in mathematic education. Context and joy and it really can be surface for our next generation. Now, lets be absolutely clear what the common core actually is. Ive gone through it. What is the common core . Okay, the outlining actual piece of mathematics seems to make sense, theres a story line of the mathematics in k12 and appropriate story line. Theres actually nothing new in the common core state content of mathematics. Its just people thought deeply what is story line that makes sense and i say, yeah, to that. The common core goes further and also says we must attend statements of thinking, it wunts us to actually attend thinking and i have to say yes, yes, its phenomenal. Make sense of problems and persevere solving this. Step back and understand what it means in summers of numbers and so forth. You have to think about argument in mathematics. Model with mathematics. Get a model. Perfect tools, dont just use calculators. Really think about what tools are appropriate in mathematics. You cant argue against this. This one misleads people. It sounds like, okay, we are going to compute things, no, that means precision of language. Know what to describe what you really mean and what youre talking about. If you see an equation, can you step back from it and see maybe the square and its informing about mathematics and regulated repeated reason that is through the same type of calculation over and over again, can you notice if you take one step back they will all follow the same structure and solve one general problem maybe you argue thats the story of algebra right there. Lets be very clear. Hundreds and hundreds of standards. You know, when i said we can each be personally responsible for matters, you should download the common core state standards. 436 of them. I was generous. Three standards. I counted 346. 149 for high school. And 30 of those 149, 20 of them are optional that reflects the flexibility here. So 436 standards, all is looking good. The biggest point to make is not a curriculum and here is the trouble, this is a real danger, it is very easy to confuse states implementation of the common core state standards, you can find, i agree, really troubling examples out there in temperature books, well, that particular interpretation of common core state standards, there are no lesson plans, there are no lesson plans, there are no uniform test in parallel scoring systems. Theres no general system and people feel like standards themselves are questions for students. Forgive me, im just going to give examples of the books. Use the components to interpret expressions of functions, how express in different way and give meaning, the standard number, no one applied expansion connected to triangle, okay, theyre not questions, they are standards. Optional standard. Its optional. Two things to note here. Optional and secondly they are not written for students with functions, they are written for experts, teachers, curriculum writers, doesnt mean im going to call it, common core, speaking to the academics of the world. Looks beautiful. Forgive me for pulling out some of these and i feel like im being rude here but a lot of articles are supposed on two words in particular. So forgive me. I checked in there, no. I dont know what it is myself. I have to ask my friends. Trinomial does not appear. Xequation. Xequation doesnt. The word asymptote, the scare word is there. One optional challenge. A lot of people are scared of the worth algorithm. Yes, its true. The worth algorithm appears five times in common core state standards grade 36. Long addition, long subtraction, long division, long multipolice multiplication, done. Its a very thing going on. I will be fair, some terms are the common core. I know thats not the common core. Thats a very big highpower Research Topic but i think it means the word ellipse. You check these things. And, yes, there are scary words that appear, inverse functions, yes, they are in the common core, appears five times. Optional. Interesting, lets be very clear what the common core is. Peoples interpretation of the common core that might hit that way. Another thing and i have said that in several places is that people worry about statistics, young cedz dont understand the correlation and causation and thats they caught this one. Correlation and causation. Proofs, this is a scary one. We all had the experience, i believe, from our education days at least two proofs in geometry. Not in the common core. Mathematicians do not do proof that way. Those were probably invented, i dont know my story, forgive me, i will check the facts but to help students systemize thinking. Another thats in the common core, and notice the real shocker for many educators, the word simply does not appear. If i ask root 20, i will tell you it looks pretty good to me. All depends on what you want to do with it. All the kneejerk reactions, root 20 must be root 5. Lets be honest here. This one comes up a lot. Not being allowed to write on the page. Common core, fine. Just do whats in the context. Have a thinking process of doing mathematics. And i will just finish and i can go into much further detail. Literacy. Oh, boy, it is so in the common core. So so actually talked about we need skills in a math curriculum. Again, please check the times of quotes that quote was 2003, many years before the common core is even conceived and look what we do. We want kids to think count quantitatively. Mathematical examples dealing with the issues that it contends with. I can give you all the list and estimation and context, spacial reasoning, playing with pie, pie is a big one and we should talk about pie at some point. My time is up. I will stop there, thank you. [applause] okay. I just have been taking some notes during james talk and just comment on them. First of all, im not an expert in the common core and i prefer not to be. I have read all the common core state standards for high school, i went through them, at a certain point i counted Something Like 700, 1764 individual standards, but that doesnt i tell you what does, the test, the tests are going to be given next year, nationwide for at least 40 plus states and theyre going to be uniformed or at least parallel tests that are being done park and balance. [laughter] the whole point of the common core was that before the common core each state did it separately. Guess what, in mississippi 90 of the people, High School Seniors were passing in math in mississippi and in minnesota only 74 , why . Because each state has its own tests. Common core has a test those of us who are math teachers will have to teach to the test, sorry, you will have to because the test results, im not talking about evaluating teachers in terms of salary or even closing schools, im saying that states themselves will be evaluated on our common core results much just look at whats going to be on the test that your students are going to go through hour after hour. Okay, and the failure rate is going to be disastrous, why . Because its College Level almost sat level for the common core. Secondyear algebra. We are going to have one or two things, new york and kentucky have done pilots on common core type tests. Only twothirds failed the math in those two tests. Next time around theyll have to be decided do we we end up with twothirds failing youll hear from legislators on that because its their constituents, oh, yes, white kids from the suburbs who fail and not just kids of the back roads of the Rural Counties and we will see what happens and the question is why, why are we putting ourselves through this torture when we really dont have to. The math helps us can problemsolving. Why not . [laughter] i should have why not. [laughter] with problemsolving. Yes, with problemsolving in mathematics. I will tell you a problem that ive had to deal with as a citizen, i have been a juror in five criminal cases. Why they chose me, my kind face. In each of those trials, five criminal and two murders, prosecution says, we will move beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant here did it. We had to use our minds to solve that problem and they have enough proof beyond a reasonable doubt or not, i assure you that any mathematicians in my juryies were no better than the bicycle messenger, gee, jose i never thought of thinking it that way and jose never been in that class. He was number two in the defense department. I knew him because i knew about the colonel, he was a math major, his father was a math professor. Finest mathematical minds we had. When we go into baghdad, everybody will adopt democracy tomorrow. Look, i dont make this Political Science but mathematics, okay, the beauty of mathematics and here when james talked of mathematics almost a tear rolled down my eyes. When we teach poetry, when we teach novels, theres a beauty there we can convey and my challenge to Mathematics Teachers and professors, you see a beauty in mathematics, can you convey that to your students. Youve got a captive audience. You have a chance to do it, the success rate, this is not good of the bachelors degrees awarded last year, only 1 were math majors, its down to 1 now. Something happening there. Maybe its because of the way the stuff you have to teach in the textbooks that you cant take time off and to show beauty of pie. Well, give it a try. Just one last thing, do i have one more minute . Yes. Okay. I realized that most of us in this room are academics, we are not vocational teachers. I teach in liberal arts college, im not training people to be lawyers and things like that. But we are really being told on how we have to train people for stem, stem, stem, get to major in the stem fields. Go for it. Stem, stem, stem and even starbucks. Look behind the counters, thats real hightech, but you know, you know what has sold those around the world . By the way, starbucks is in china too. Not the technology, sure, but the magic of those words. Who thought of google. We know what google is. Who thought about putting google out there, putting apple, twitter out there. You dont have to major in math, you dont have to be an engineer, what we do need are more people that are poets, those are poetic words. Theyre not going to be kids to college because they are going to stumble in algebra. The future of this country, stem maybe, just this much, new words like that, when you think of the fifth one to put down there that will resound, i say more power to you. [applause] thank you, now james. Yes, the beauty of math and general. Testing, you know, we are so on the same page with testing. Its all getting what answers to what questions, what question and the speed. Thats joyless to me and i personally would not want to participate. I use today give quizzes with all the answer supplies, whats the height of trees and silly things about whatever or big blank space to work on. The answer is on the board. We should have more of that. I use today get things called 100 packages. You have a month to do this. Over and over again. You have 100. Took you just a week, no worries. Figure it out. Its a Culture Shift we need. Thats a tough one. I dont think algebra 2 is actually too high a barrier. The issue is how we teach the subject and joy and humanist, solet me lets think of things. Trigonometry seems scary. What is this thing . Sitting on the horizon contemplating what im doing. You might notice the sunrises in the east. 12 hours later it comes back down again. Thats what human question would be, all right, how high is the sun at some point. No idea how high it is. On top of a son and measure it. The only thing i can measure is the angle that i can look up at. All right. Grand. Thats the story when trigonometry was born. That was indian mathematicians called the angle, knew what the radius was. Big unit to the sun. They call the angle. Then math took off in 800s in the middle east and translated into arabic. In arabic they tended not to write vowels, different angles. Well, then math took off in western europe in 1200s and went down to madrid, what word in jb in arabic, code. Then became sign. Theres the human story of how you call the sign and companion to sign. Next question. Okay. Okay. Thats a problem. What can i do. And eventually might happened to pick me. Look at this. Ah. What must the length be . Half triangle. I have my kids working up 30degrees just like this. This is joy us teaching. Algebra 2 within reach of everyone and i think sure, to me is joyless. Thats more joyful. I think algebra two is within reach. I dont think theres anything too deep. We clutter the curriculum. I can go. How much time do i have . 3 37. 3 37 proof. Is mathematic hopeful with proof. Just because the same word is used in different context doesnt mean we are talking about the same thing. Proof does come up in jury cases in mathematical proof and scares thickens out of people. Time for one. A classic example. I think of ellen wrote about the book and chances are imagine theres a town where 10 are purple and a crime took part and eyewitness says the cab that went away is blue. Youre an eyewitness out of 100 cabs, 90 will be blue and 10 will be purple. Is that what i said . I saw a purple cab go away. I tested the eyewitness and im being shown the colors blue and able to correct color 80 of the time. Shes a pretty reliable witness. Among these 90 blue taxi canes shell be correct 80 of the time. 18 cabs, she will says 8 of these are actually purple when theyre really blue and the rest was 72 we should say really are blue. Off of the 10, actually purpose ones, two of them are mistakenly blue and 8 of them are actually mistakenly youre right. Purple and blue. All right. This witness says she definitely saw a blue cab go away. Shes 80 reliable on the eyewitness test. What are the chances shes actually correct . Well she said blue, 72 cases and these are two cases. So thats 34 cases, i want to make it purple. Purple is much more convincing. Lets say she said purple. 8 out of 26 times she was actually correct that it really was purple in saying purple. 8 out of 26. That sounds like about 30 to me, which is only 30 reliable. And i believe this in thinking does happen in court cases every now and then and jurors cannot follow this we hope we get the numbers right first. But that is, i think, a good example that actually maybe math, okay 100 of the math we teach is used by somebody and no one individual ignores 99. 5 of us and however, i cannot say which 99 i should throw out of the curriculum. Maybe its in grade 8. Thats a hard question. I think we could reach algebra 2 if we actually teach it with truth, beauty, context, relevance, meaning and joy. It really is seeing and setting back and portal of wonder opens up even with polynomials. We have to teach kids about polynomials. A gift to the nation, i will say. Thanks. [applause] thank you. Well, thank you both. Now its time for questions so we will get set up for questions. Itll be somebody that will run the mic around. We will turn off to make the other mics. [inaudible] before we begin, let me let me Say Something thats slightly unusual here. We are going to spend about 15 minutes or so with questions from the audience and then when we are done by the way youll have a chance to come up and ask individual questions of the speakers. I cant help myself here, i have to make an observation and the observation is that all three of us here are really in some sense, we are not james has been a teacher but we are not presently teachers in schools. We are in some sense University People or universitylike people and this is what happens all of the time, think about it. We are talking about k12 education here. Mathematics and the role in the k12 iN High Schools but also in middle schools and Elementary Schools. Can you imagine having a meeting in which we discuss some medical practice and there wasnt a practicing doctor anywhere in sight, can you imagine ever doing that . The fact that we are three people all of us who are not teachers says an awful lot about the state of education in this country and so i would like to say that i will take questions from the audience but i would prefer to take questions from k12 teachers in the audience if you dont mind. So at least in the beginning i would like to hear from k12 teachers. All right. I will bring the microphone and give it a second. If you could stand up. Okay. I do teach 6 and eighth grade math, so can you prove it . [laughter] sure, what do you want . [laughter] my question is to dealing with that, what do you suggest . I think that you have great points, but what do we do . We are stuck in the middle. Sorry, we are the ones stuck in the middle right now. What do you have suggestions because thats where we are right now . I think very simply i know youre caught because the school, the state lays down what you have to teach and this is something that im freed from at the College Level but i understand and i appreciate what you have to do. I would simply say as we always used to say, write your congressman. You know, this is a political question. Tht this is not just an education question and make your voice heard on this. Look, i want more freedom to teach the beauty of mathematics rather the standard that youre requiring to me. See if you can make your voice heard. You belong to a union, i hope they will take that up too. My biggest Culture Shock from a university to can you speak slower . [laughter] i get excited and i seem to have an accent. My biggest Culture Shock was how phonetic and busy the world was, the High School World next to no chance to reflect on teaching. It was really shock to go me and disturbing and i was really interested in the challenge of how do i find my wiggle room nonetheless. Get my kids to pass the test. I do admit that i was in the Public School private school world which is exempt from the Public School world, but not qualified to teach in the Public School world, basically but i had the culture was loud and clear. My algebra 2 experience with my kids was my kids need to know the formula, they need to be able to do 50 of them in a row and pushups while youre at it. I got my kids doing boxes and my colleagues didnt know what the boxes were even though i tried to talk about them. Its the wiggle room and its very hard and exhausting and you feel like youre doing alone and blog and tweet about it. Social media is strong and people really are working and examples to bring joy to all levels of teaching. Unfortunately you should have more room. I want to speak about a teaching that i did in east har lam in Elementary School. I thought problemsolving and in the weeks before the test i said in two weeks before the test i said to the teacher you know how to teach them how to bubble in and do a test, now you do that. I want you to know about teaching for the test because to see teaching mathematics is teaching for the test and the better you teach mathematics the better the students can handle whatever is thrown at them that they might not have seen before. So youre talking about something that i need you to explain because to me its teaching mathematics. Thank you. Okay. Just briefly, what do i mean teaching to the test. Here is my best example. Princeton review and caplan, you go to them, you pay and they teach you how to beat the test. In fact, some of the people i have talked to as coaches say, you know, i can teach you to get 400, i know its not great, but 400 in the sat without even knowing a thing about mathematics, there could be a test in bulgarian, they teach you how to beat the test. Look, we are professionals, we are teachers, we love learning, my own view is i happen to be with a farright wing on this, im against the common core. I would rather got rid of totally and leave it to you in the classroom, youre a professional to teach what you think should be taught or you think is important and by the way, if in one School Different people are teaching Different Things in math classes, fine, a thousand flowers bloom. There isnt one thing everybody has to know. I will be quick. Cheating to the test. Thats a big scary one. The easy way to interpret that, here is the formula thats memorized, a song to help you memorize it and that will solve problems. You can do that. Its joyless and its kind of whats expected by many parts of our culture that thats what mathematics need and getting answers with speed. Fundamental paradigm should test. But i agree, teaching my kids to think and i felt confident passing the test. They passed the test but they felt resistance because they knew colleagues were doing Different Things and they got nervous about it. A lot of work that needs to be done and work with parents is very scary. I have an accent that seems to develop some respect so i think i can talk to parents and they believe me and ph. D helped a lot, however, i admit that was in my favor with discussing with parents and they trusted me. Trust is hard to abtaken and i agree. Hi, im a High School Student and have taken the common core and now its a real adjustment period while we transition to the common core and so results would be shaky. I think you said that only twothirds of students have passed it in new york or have failed it, onethird, and i was just wondering over time do you think as more kids have taken it and as teachers have had more time to learn how to prep kids to take it, results will improve and generally itll be more accepted, the common core over by the way, theres a misconception in here, being proficient, the test has four Different Levels and misconception that in order to pass the test you have to be proficient or advanced and thats not at all whats meant here. So theres basic proficient advance and the figures that you hear about only onethird passed it are not correct figures. Thats a misinterpretation of the levels of the test but now lets somebody answer it. By the way, please, its a misinterpretation. No, they havent failed. Theyre just unproficient. The word proficient doesnt mean what you think in english. [laughter] labels, labels. Lets be very clear, are you speaking of new yorks interpretation of the common core state standards . You studied in new york . Okay, this is my point earlier on. I deeply worry about implementation of states interpretation of the common core and i know that they engage new york in particular did something that was very disturb to go me, okay, we are going to implement in 2015 and we start with curriculum as though every student has gone through the k9 portal experience of that curriculum and they havent. So i think i will try to make a prediction, its probably tough to stay in new york if thats the cultural introduction to this. We were told to write on curriculum and i was very nervous right to 2020 student. Dont write if the student has not been through it at all. If we give it a chance, i permy believe theres good hope for it. Testing is always an issue. I worry about the state of testing. If its testing thats going to do anything. But they are trying to be clever in the test. They are asking you why and thinking questions or here is an algebra problem to work. Not give you the actual equation. So they are trying to hopefully theyll have a good success with that. Yeah, sure. Im actually asking a question on behalf of somebody online, daniel. He asks, lets supposed that andrew hackers proposal which is to abolish standards, a summary of the proposal, he is executed and what might be the consequences of that . Consequences of abolishing standards . [inaudible] first of all, look at what is going to happen with the common core. One size fits all. Now, currently almost half of our students dont go on after college. They finish at high school and dont go further. Many try college and dont finish. Only about third of americans finish college. Now, what are we going to do for this nonacademic twothirds. We are going to have the common core standards, college and career ready segued into one thing and make them both do pascals triangle and triples, no. My answer is if you get rid of it, will have much more freedom in tailoring education for various levels of students and i dont mean dumb versus smart, i mean not everybody has to go get, theres going to be people that are ups drivers. Its an honorable job. Basic multiplication table. If we let good of the standards, we let go. I mean, do we want some commonality that kids should know about fundamental basic arithematic or not . I dont know where that line is. I have no trouble with the bulk of the contents of whats deemed algebra two if it taught i would say, maybe general standards, id be scared to let go of all of them. One more question. Hi. I am a High School Math teacher in the south bronx, and my biggest concern with the idea of not making higher level math mandatory is that theres already an achievement gap is in country, and my students are already having lots of doors shut on them, and i think by saying, okay, only those who can learn mag are going to be the ones to learn it, that achievement gap is going to get larger, and so my question to you is, how if we good with this and get rid of the standards, are we going to prevent our student whose are already at a disadvantage from continuing to get doors closed on them . [applause] i really glad that question was asked, bus its a basic american question. Back in some detained decaying trailer park in rural arkansas, or somewhere South Brooklyn but anyway, somewhere there is a kid being brought are brought up in a really grungy home. Things like that happen. Who has the makings of being an astrophysicist. Yes there is such a question child. The question is, how do we discover that child in do we do it by making everybody, 100 , including the poets and the dancers, make everybody, good to a full mathematical sequence until we find that one person in the trailer park who should be encouraged . Somehow, you better work out the probabilities for this. The price were paying by making 100 do something so that one fraction of one percent will be discovered, maybe theres a better way to discover in the trailer park that kid, maybe at the age of five, who has a certain light to them, a certain talent to them, age five, and discover them, and move them along to astro physics, but dont put it on everybody, including the person who wants to be an horrible ups driver but needs a High School Diploma for it. An honorable ups driver but needs a High School Diploma for it. Gosh, dont throw in everybody. Where is the line . Do we have a choice in grade seven, grade eight . People selfidentify that im going to go into a career that when im 12. I dont know how to make that call. Dont know how to put that system in for people to make the call. Its a false call. As i said, let teach math like its beautiful, art, hoyt, the ol, lets reach the human yeas and the scientists and mathematicians itch believe we can do it. I believe theres a really joyous curriculum to be had there and i dont think concepts of algebra two in the standard curriculum are out of reach for the majority of people. Its worth striving for that and not just ludicrous to say let not have a good at it. Its the culture how we do it half. Have a culture where teachers can thrive with the human selfs ump im seep so many school scrimmages where at the district says Everyone Needs to be on page 17 by next thursday. And give the kid a techbooks and its learning is organic with cant be in sync. Dont expect teachers to be . Sync. Thats not the human experience, lets make teaching math a conversation and i think fit fair enough to have ideas are you you should be at the end of the year. Lets trust teachers. I dont know what to say. Um, thank you both. Before we close, let me remind you that there will be a book table here with books from both speakers on sale over here, and also that youre welcome to come up and ask questions as well. After we close. Id like to close, since ive already mentioned woody dudley here, with the final woffords of his essay, is mathematics necessary, which is worth reading. Think in a way it intersects with comments made by both speakers but also is slightly different. He says, what Mathematics Education is for is not for jobs. It is to teach the race to reason. It does not have a nose all with six feet, but it is the best pegged we have. Not the only road to the goal, but there is none better. Further more, it is worth teaching. Were igyn to hyperbole i would say mathematic is the most Glorious Creation of the human intellect but im not given too hyperbole so i will not say that. However, when i am before the bar of judgment, heavenly or otherwise, and asked to justify my life, i will draw myself up proudly and say, i was one of the stewards of math that ticks and mathematics and it came to no harm in my care. Will not say, i helped people get jobs. Thank you very much. Good night. [applause] [inaudible] conversation [inaudible conversations] next up, vicky algier talked about her book failure, the miseducation of americas children. Hello and welcome toe hair taj foundation. Im andrew park, the assistant director of lectures and seminars. Thank you for joining us today. Want to take the opportunity to rye mind everyone watching inhouse to silence your cell phones. For anyone who is watching online, you are welcome to submit questions by emails speaker at heritage. Org. Hosting todays program is lindsey burk. She researches and writes of federal and state education issues, has the will skillman fellow in education policy here at heritage foundation. She focuses on reduce can dub empowering families with school choice. With that ill hand it over to lindsey. Thank you, andrew, and thanks to everybody foring here today. And everyone watching online at well. Were really excited to welcome vicki algier to heritage today to discuss her thorough and interesting become on the failure of federal education, and she doesnt mince words. The very title failure the federal miseducation of americas children and argues it is time to end, not mend, federal intervention in education. As dr. Algier explains in her book, the federal government left education alone for 100 years, recogni i