Take a look at the classs and trips we have going on this month also visit us at the splays and poets we just open this first satellite location i am pretty i am happy to welcome Julian Zelizer about his timely book the fierce urgency of now analysis of how Lyndon Johnson singled into the achieved the historic legislative successes of the mid 1960s. Professor Julian Zelizer looks back and offers a compelling case of a previous the celts of johnsons role may have been exaggerated or slightly off base that this book should coincide with the new movie of so much that there is a new view of the Great Society and doll characters most notably, a johnson. Teaching a Princeton University and then do fellow at the new american foundation. And also a columnist for cnn. Com. Please help me to welcome teeeighteen back to politics prose for about. Is a terrific to be here this is one of my Favorite Book stores in is a pleasure to be a part of it. Thank you all for coming. Is partly because of the film but it is because of Lyndon Johnson and the comparison to president obama that is a frequent part of the debate over the current presidency. There have been many critics that have talked about the need to be more like Lyndon Johnson and be willing to engage in the hardball politics that seems to be necessary to make washington work. Is not about the current president but your name to make of washington that seems to be gridlock and dysfunctional. And to be extraordinarily popular with washington insiders as staffers handed out a copy of the book to democrats in the sense saying why can our president to more of this was the secret of Lyndon Johnson that got his legislation through the Upper Chamber . Maureen dowd of the New York Times wrote obama is the antiLyndon Johnson in a column that tried to characterize the differences between the two of them. The book is a narrative of the history when president kennedy was in the white house when they talked like today about a dysfunctional congress, a congress that was gridlock rather than just the Republican Party and as bailing to deal with issues of that time it goes through the trans formative years between 1964 and 66 with that huge amount of legislation to be almost impossible with medicare or medicaid. With the environmental regulation and smaller bills like the safety caps on medicine and to prevent children for getting access to food stamps and much more. And it goes through how that happens here in washington and the relationship between the practiced and the white house between 1966 and 68 when johnson has a very troubling period with a backlash in congress against what he has done at the same time over the war in vietnam. As part of the argument of the book is to do challenge some of our assumption is that clinton johnsons success come voluntarily from him. With the political magician who could do what no one else could do. And Lyndon Johnson was very skilled politician what was it about the country at that time that allows someone like Lyndon Johnson to succeed . This is the story of the book. Again then edits the treatment as johnson would physically however over the supporters. In den a conservative southerner where he stands over ham which captures the same kind of image. But i want to move beyond that for what was going on to make washington work . And why did that shut down . So part of the story is about social movements. And then with those social movements part of why that congress a liberal senator from pennsylvania coal the sexless branch of government. With both the executive branch and congress to take action. Congress at that time was very vibrant with grassroots activist with force politicians to do what they often did have the courage to do at that moment. Part of that were Interest Groups like the aflcio, a huge force at the time representing organized labor that none of them mobilize members but also washington to lobby behind the bills when the house would vote on a measure was a period when things were not recorded. Back when they voted on an issue so organized labor would put their people in the gallery was Civil Rights Activist to literally watch over to see what they were doing. And what was amazing word liberal organizations who didnt have just cop but access on capitol hill. There was an ecosystem of liberalism which doesnt exist today that a 1964. There is a lot of examples this is a very important example. And fully in favor of Voting Rights negotiating with the senate but not prepared to send the bill to congress. And part of what the movement did what though legislative strategist does to build through the of protest and confrontation to create an atmosphere that is no longer permissible. With the urgency of now. Liberals also did other organizational things during the Civil Rights Act of 64 one of the of big fears of parliamentary tricks with us all rights act of 1964 to force all the senators to come back at all hours to take the quorum call so there was one story so the filibuster has started in many senators at the opening day game and Hubert Humphrey was managing the civilrights forces and the senate is under the assumption had there been an agreement no quorum calls during the game. All are getting together with some members of that house in to throw out the opening pitch between the third and fourth inning en the loudspeaker comes onto sale senators must return right now for a quorum call. Hubert humphrey gets up and waved his arms and is serious. Everybody these except for one which jews Richard Russell that is heading of the filibuster quite content with what he had done. When the senators leave the Leadership Conference for civilrights which is an Umbrella Organization had limousines ready for the senators to take them back to the senate to get them back there for a vote and he entered triumphantly. From the grass roots to these types of tactical fights and organizational fights were incredibly important to create the moment that allowed the Great Society to take place. Bill after bill these are the stories that i kept finding. At after the 64 election liberal had huge majority on capitol hill. And to be absolutely defeated after Barry Goldwaters defeat to run against johnson end up winning by a huge landslide the democrats to 95 in the house and 68 seats in the senate with big majorities for those who rule the roost and no republican ones to look like barry goldwater. Ever republican agrees that has been a disaster some republicans are much more willing to deal with the administration and with the democratic leadership. So Many Democrats that said the results gave democrats the need to sit on the republican side of the aisle. That was the sentiment that only were they defeated but they no longer had the numbers that they needed to hold up legislation. So there are all kinds of stories to see conservatives but their position because they were going to lose so one of the characters in my book was the chairman of the house ways and Means Committee which was a committee that has jurisdiction over the medicare proposal. It was proposed 62 and 63 and 64. The ama called it socialized medicine. Handing out pamphlets in physician as offices that warned that if the bill passed bureaucrats would still make medical decisions it was quite fierce again every year he killed it. Even after kennedys death after all the sentiment toward kennedy he did not budget at the end of 64 once again the bill is very. When liberal democrats came back to washington and many of the new members ran on medicare platforms before Congress Even meets to say i will put it up a floor of the vote in the first months he actually helped to shape the bill to create something bigger than president kennedy or johnson had ever imagined and it is an instructive story of how lachaise were capable of j. J. Legislative behavior. With that coalition to regain their power. There is of backlash against the racial programs including the open housing bill, of lot of unrest about vietnam. Many conservatives are saying it is a disaster because johnson is it tough enough so he is not willing to bomb of vietnamese with enough aggression and also saying spending is too high the deficits are rising. So the conservative coalition regains power so the third part of my book shows Lyndon Johnson to with all of his skills cannot get much done on capitol hill to challenge the notion that is enough to move the bill through. But it is nothing like the middle of his presidency in there is one great conversation were one senator says can you move it a certain bill . You are the master of the senate. You could get anything done and johnson is spurious as a master of the senate. I am not the master of a thing i cannot even make this congress do one thing that i know of. And even complained his own party including the majority leader gave him trouble on vietnam all the time. In the opponent for part of this period johnson ended up having opponents to work with them on bills. There is a big part of the Republican Party willing to make a deal between 1964 and in 1965 but almost every piece of legislation that came out of this period. Some were the liberals who are much more liberal than democrats some of this was about the leadership. Like the republican from illinois you on many bills came around to get the votes that they needed. So that which is captured in in selma one of the things you dont see in the movie is even before the protest takes place to see that there were several weeks before bloody sunday to negotiate the framework of the Voting Rights act. There is the first march before it ever took place in it was crucial there would reenter since of says filled with republicans in the ditch with elephants figurines and dirksen would sit at the head of the table has they discussed a lot of this and mansfield was frustrated because he had to sit on the side as he had a pretty formidable role. The ashtrays were filled with cigarettes but they worked out the agreement and there are many examples in those years before the republicans turn on johnson the g. O. P. In the willingness to make the deal is the very important part of the story. And it wasnt only they were more willing to agree with democrats are that republicans were more moderate but going back to the first part of what i have been talking about were under pressure with those being debated to say we will go to illinois and embarrass you in the then threading to go to his home where his motherinlaw would actually live and surrounded to bring Media Attention under pressure to understand why gerald ford were cutting deals for a few years but that will end by 1967 but for that window of policy making you cannot have Lyndon Johnson without dirksen and that is an important part of what is going on. In the most difficult part of the johnson presidency, part of his success comes from a bad bargain that he made of vietnam. Many people like to quote the famous line about how the war really killed the lady i love of the Great Society. There is more to the quotation but i dont know what i can say with the quotation. In to get himself into the war it drowns the legacy to do everything he did on vietnam. For many years as a president who no one thought was very good as an unsuccessful president but it is important to understand vietnam was part of a bargain that johnson made. Part of the reason johnson went along with vietnam he believed in the domino theory that if one country fell to communism others would follow. Part of that was politics johnson was a democrat to cavemen page bear remembering in 1950 to have republicans at the white house was attacking german with using anticommunism saving from depression and world war ii. He was scared of the right to believe that for a liberal democrat to succeed you have to be tough on foreign policy. To say again and again and part of the epidemic that led the country deeper into the war had to do with these political fears. You can see i have many conversations where johnson is more and early in 1964 or 65 the war was a bad idea. And also been warned that conservative is a conversation may 27, 1964 talking about vietnam and johnson says i have held in this region i dont know what i will do. They said it is a mess. It is really essential to the cold war. Youll end up in a much bigger war and in another conversation everyone will hate you by the time this is over. But they did not know how to get out. Part of the political features led deeper into the war he wanted to protect the coalition to protect the white house and did not want to endanger the coalition that was producing things like the Voting Rights act. And part of that bargain led him into a war that in the hand hurt his legacy and destroyed some of his programs. 1967 and 68 the debate of johnson isnt what program should i passed the debate with a congress that tells him you can have guns or butter. You will not have those. And ultimately in 1968 spending 6 billion of domestic spending cuts targeted to antipoverty in exchange for a tax increase to finance the war in vietnam. We cannot dismiss that so part of the way he ultimately got what he wanted to congress. This was as much politics as the treatment or other factors that i talk about. It is important to understand johnsons skills to understand his political strength as a leader but also not to exaggerate how much of the impact if the conditions were not correct to understand how we have that condition that existed. What i learned about Lyndon Johnson is he understood more than anyone in his power was limited. He wanted to move fast and aggressive because you never bought what everyone was saying about the strength of liberalism he knew it would be incredibly short. The only power i got is nuclear and i cannot even use that. Johnson was a creature of congress and spent his own when dash as a whole career there before he got to the white house said he understood the Impact Capitol hill has. He also said at one point that it is not exactly right but Congress Gets back every president eventually in new that what happened to him which is exactly what it did. So i hope i capture this element and even kill these opportunities are quick when we get a lot of legislation it doesnt happen often but it can be incredibly lasting but even though the backlash takes place in a couple of years when it serves to fragment quickly much of it has into word even engaged of conservatism may have had a huge impact of American Society and they do not think of them as something that may not continue there was that debate over health care when it teapartier activists said get your government hands off my medicare and it was ironic and funny but it captures the legacy of the Great Society goes right and left have accepted these programs as fundamental as the debate moved onto other issues. That is the book i hope you will enjoy and see Lyndon Johnson president ial power and how politics work within a different perspective. Thank you. For questions go to the microphone. Thank you. Johnson was so much now willing to get out of vietnam as running for president in 1968 . That is with his speech. He decided he would not run for the election and at the end of march and surprises everyone his people show Hubert Humphrey the speech the morning of is supposedly he had the anxiety attack. At that point were very deep into the war it is and the matter of ending soon. Johnson is fully cognizant of his presidency and the nation calling his nightmares of conservatism is coming true the guy in the managers of 66 who went around the country campaigning for people on this issue though when he resigns to think that is the best opportunity i have to affect some change. If i take myself out of politics to make myself a lame duck certainly on those issues protecting my Domestic Program and there is evidence he thought he would lose if he ran. He thought he would lose . I dont know. I dont do counterfactual history. Ion sure he would have given dixon a run for his money but he was pretty devastated physically, emotionally and politically. I think if johnson went to chicago what happened could have been different compared to the response that would have come. I thank you make a good argument that maybe you ere too much in the other direction. At these programs are going nowhere. Johnson and figured out to have of majority or how to do it but kennedy had the same problem obama had. But they did not know what to do and they hated johnsons and never asked. If you compare what obama did with his he did not Like Congress for politicians or to engage with them and got a very compromise bill. There is something to that there will never be tapes like that from obama where johnson would talk to people every day. Thank you. There were a lot of president s there. Kennedy is complex. And then with the rules committee alexy democrat from virginia is a tory is for that legislation and the entire coalition was almost every measure he could talk all day he would not change their vote with the last time a civil rights but to do a timeline with the Birmingham Project with the march on washington, as that happened kennedy does send the bill it gets through the rules committee it looks good in the house that that is the place that changes the dynamics for kennedy. But there is limits to how far that can get you. To have the majority that johnson had in 1965 with medicare but i think it is very significant to a lot of johnsons success. You alluded to this earlier indicating that selma was johnsons idea. I want your take on this so johnson supporting the civil rights with the poverty programs i am curious about the dynamics so what were the dynamics of racial politics . But i am curious what is your take a map perspective . The sow love movie first let me see this dening and ridding that captures a basic part of that dynamic of that bill and how with past in the resonated with me the movement was not simply there to get the issue on the table literally driving the debate and there is no way to deny if the selma march is have been there were not ready to do it yet for many reasons. Also it captures the courage of activism the controversy arose over edmonton johnson and i do think that the movie portrays johnson in whatever reason as indifferent to Voting Rights or even how style to change that chronology with j. Edgar hoover and to make it a product of johnson rather than jfk. I think the movie made a mistake as a debate that was the necessary. In december 1965 and maybe even november there is the great phone call lets get this ready to go and is committed he is committed to the idea of the Voting Rights and the conversation them january 15 to say lets do this now we have to africanamericans need a Voting Rights to protect the gains that we just made. Want this but i cannot do it now that i have another million bills i am trying to get with medicare or health care and is worried about moderate democrats will get scared or weak knees if he pushes too soon so the debate was over timing not commitment in that is where the movie makes a mistake because the relationship is not adversarial but a Partnership Unit johnson does say go out there to build an environment for me where this will work. Tell people the worst case of voting discrimination that exists some people understand what we are talking about in the region that is that the origins those protesters already taking place in our very eager to do this than planned this but i think it mischaracterizes johnson that way and the unfortunate part in helping end the movie to criticism that isnt necessary for the story of the film but the good part is it creates a debate over activism and house bills passed the normally isnt what people are talking about some there is something good that came out of that but in terms of his commitment to mitt precedes his wife the with he teaches in the Mexican American school after college he really sees our Racial Discrimination works and is very moved by that and his understanding of poverty in this heavy fda under fdr and learning by racial inequality in is very concerned. Both conversations are horrendous and is engaging in the language throughout his presidency that our horrible. But over his career he does become more committed. The Civilrights Movement in tax as senator and Vice President and president. And he becomes much more committed to the idea of the legislation needed in large part by any other american because of the legislation king had on him. But he always had this schizophrenic quality so after the riot and wants 1965 there is a lot of phone conversations. Summer so deep meaning how can these africanamerican children basically theyre irresponsible, they dont realize how they are harming all the things were doing it he is really angry speaking in terribly racist terms but on the other hand, he has a conversation where he is very cognizant of the issue underlying the right it. Of course, if youre a 40 percent Unemployment Rate , if you lose housing housing, grow up without police, people are going to be a grave we dont deal with the issues you will not deal with those events. So he never abandon the racial element but he was fundamentally committed to the bills through the 60s he was pushing. I enjoyed your talk you did as a good job to bring alive history for you but for us was current demons. [laughter] a little perception of the congress of 67 for 68, and they passed the most interesting of the civilrights act which was the Fair Housing Act passed 1968 how did johnson do that if his strength was withering . Good question. That is a major bill it was actually it in 1966 johnson believe the third part of the trifecta is housing dealing with discrimination in Voting Rights but we dont have access to rental or sale of housing that is a huge economic problems proposal he proposes it to congress and it is a very strong bill. With the enforcement mechanism that john conyers hopes to kraft that includes much for the nation. When he proposes this the backlash is huge the no. Democrats are furious the bill is floating through congress Many Democrats suffer because of the proposal would of the liberal icons of civil rights will lose to a moderate to capitalize against the backlash is so bad he says should i come visit . Douglas says itll take you should do that with that sentiment right now the workingclass constituency will help neither of us. The bill comes again in 67 and then Charles Massey becomes a key compromiser but they diminish the amount of housing and slowly get the enforcement mechanism that was at the heart of the bill by the time that passes it is important but the major, minor dash contribution is the principal verses 65 or 64 with the other civilrights measures many people felt that way many members were not happy with the bill that as our housing will be dealt with. But that is a very watereddown compromise bill i would have said the assassination of Martin Luther king. Baguettes the bill moving but it is still not the bill thank you. I was interested in you referring as liberalism put it was very touched by the Lyndon Johnson era. Fellow will check for granted at the time to the environmental legislation of the 70s but what do you attribute the prevalence of liberalism now that it isnt always the case . Was a the rights movements . I have two things that i think about i do push back it definitely was talk about the last gasp in some ways but it becomes clear conservatism was still strong Party Politics here talking about congress it was nine liberalism led a conservative coalition in of governors and republicans who say no, no, no. That is important there other parts their very strong Business Leaders who are financing antia Great Society campaigns but we need to think more leges civil war that was struck me is how organized that was mentioning the ecosystem was very pronounced but the heart of organized labor with the aflcio as a major force one of the of major figures was former wisconsin member of congress to become a lobbyist and he roams the halls in a way that today is hard to imagine for labour leader the civilrights groups had alliances that was very important with liberal religious leaders of all phases of the fight over the bill so in the midwest had to get republicans to except civilrights of it is not a big issue with their constituencies . The there were National Religious organizations that would coordinate with local preachers to give servants every week related to legislation triggered congregants to write members and clergy would come to washington and when confronted with a clergyman from their community it was hard to keep saying no to civilrights because they had influence personally as a strong world of liberals suddenly they were called the Democratic Study Group that was basically a the caucus of liberal democrats we would organize every step of the way for dr. The 64 election they were Given Congress very efficiently to make sure the idea does not die said is as important as the notion that without that i think it is hard to recreate. I guess i did not live through this era. Did i really miss it . But it seems like what happened is the same thing that happens over and over again as something changes that happens on the ground with the fundamental dynamic with the civil war if not before then. With the same fundamental division so what makes that fundamental and what makes the change . Part of that with respect is a difficult institution in by design to be structured in a way through congress in the system that is not conducive to pass things quickly or just passing things it is decentralized there is no head of state and once you recognize the power it is harder to fathom those moments because theyre at a loggerhead their different ways or issues but certainly that opposition what youre hinting that today is the republicans that is from some of those divisions in the country there are institutional reasons i dont know as you studied other countries how many systems are so efficient that they are constantly responding to the needs of the population . But certainly in a democratic system we had difficult compromises with opponents who did not vote for those running the house for the senate it will be hard to get a bill through there there is also procedures to favor for better or worse the filibuster back then humphrey calls it evil in his first speech is undemocratic and spends much of his early career fighting against dead in to allow a minority like howard smith to look at with a population was in johnson says howard smith represents an 18thcentury but he has just as much power today as anyone else. So those procedures built into congress it also does that so for all those reasons it is very difficult in what is rare but not common is what works. So then you look back then. I deliver the evening star. The web think that you brought up by a 13 about the influence on the general public. After the 2010 midterms taking place as republicans regain their streaks against obama after the midterms i looked in the johnson archives is the budget was the deficit even though inflation was very low but by 66 early 67 johnsons economist say we will not have enough money for this war it is out of control and we will have inflation. Pay tax on top of your taxes. Johnson says no way because it is politically disastrous so the economy starts to move faster in the deficit moves more. By the summer of 67 hes preparing for a 10 tax surcharge so congresss we will consider in the you have to cut domestic spending much more solid results in 68 as a tax hike with the activism in the fights of the pentagon but how much this war cost is an incredibly powerful issue. The fact is the domestic problems from which they could attack him or the war and it starts to erode a lot of support when he asks for more money there you might remember about the cost of the war so i think it was a big fight that defined the last couple of years. Wilbur mills was one of the driving forces. Gerald ford is the House Minority leader in the other is from the appropriations. In there is an International Financial crisis that takes place to show that america is serious about balancing the budget. And johnson is a serious purpose some economists say we will have a worldwide depression but they say no. We will not pass until you agree. This is the budget in the war coming together so he takes off his glasses to say they will rue the day that they said no to him. But we have to be firm to protect everything we built with the Great Society but two years after he resigns he says a half to except the cut the of real people. There was so much sympathy at that time so was that the big driver for the legislation . Part of the knicks in 64 to save venice continue but sometimes they think we overstate the impact and they gave the medicare example let it is probably the biggest of the filled legacy from kennedy and totally goes against the image as kennedy was really leaning on people and wilbur has not moved all in terms of medicare. So that is part of it. Siderites does not pass because of the assassination but what ec because of selma. Because of the unbearable pressure of activism and violence to the front pages of the nation. [applause] i think we have to end. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations]. Thank you so much for coming and my deepest apologies for the delay. I want to read a piece of my book of a conversation with two adult women that grew up as boys in afghanistan that have continued to live as an adult then men in afghanistan. When