I say instead of a black agenda theyre are black agendas, different sections of black communities have different desires and then some of those desires and that being articulated in a black a black agenda, and some desires are rarely if ever articulated. If are talking about 1985 for example, it is clear that hivaids or hiv is killing black people disproportionately. And and it and black gay men realized this but for a number of reasons it is very difficult for them to get that issue placed on the black agenda. Even though they wanted it to be a part of it. It is 2014. What if anything do you consider to be a black agenda item . We are taping this just a few days after the grand jury verdict in the eric garner case, a couple of weeks after the grand jury verdict in the Michael Brown case. I think kind of justice is an important issue. Actually,. Actually, it is one of those issues where you can get almost group unanimously among black people that police should not have the ability just to kill people willynilly and get away with it. Most black people would agree that jaywalking should not be a crime punishable by death. When you here the term. [laughter] thats my response. Why . Because 1st of all, its not race. Its racism. Second is that although there is a lot to be said for thinking about politics is rhetoric so we can look at president ial rhetoric over time, can compare obamas rhetorics rhetoric to Ronald Reagans rhetoric as a way to understand different governing priorities at different moments in time in general conversation does not really make for politics. It is actions. So talking about race instead of racism, talking instead of acting is a being at twos based dies away from the politics we should be engaged in. Where did you grow up, where up where did you go to school . Eastern michigan. I went to school i went to high school at a workingclass Catholic High School right outside of detroit, undergraduate and graduate school. What did your parents do . Mama was a substitute teacher. Use the term workingclass. I thought thats an interesting question. Going back to our discussion about black politics one way to think about one of the problematic ways that some people think about by politics is there is a single black subject, a single black agenda when actually, theyre actually there are class variance in black communities. There are minute women who are people who are heterosexual, people heterosexual, people who arent. I mentioned the workingclass aspect because that component of my identity is very important to me, very important in understanding kind of detroit black politics and by politics in general general, it definitely shaped the Research Questions i have attempted to answer dash shaped it has had a significant influence. We invited you on book tv to talk about books, so lets talk about your book stare book, stair in the darkness, the limits of hiphop and black politics. First of all what is hiphop . We will we are talking about is a form of Popular Culture created by black populations. Wrapping or emceeing d jenning beat bullying or breakdancing and graffiti. What i am doing largely is talking about wrapping as a vehicle to talk about her pop politics. There are a lot of different ways, particularly once rap and hiphop become Like National things there is a lot of discussion in in black communities and now silent about the effect that they have on black politics and black communities. What i wanted to do was address that. Worded rap get it start, particularly its messaging start, start, its political start. Most people located in 1972 in new york city where as a result of shifts in the way new york city is allocating resources you got a lot of workingclass kids who dont really have a lot to do. And what they end up doing was using what we now think of as rap or emceeing as a way to kind of express themselves and also to the extent that you have gangs engaged in conflict with each other it becomes a means of nonviolent conflict resolution. And from theyre it kind of takes off. I how do we get to lauryn hill in 1996 . Zero, wow. So 1979 is the 1st time that a rap record rappers delight commands of taking hold nationally. I remember where i was the 1st time i heard it. It was Something Like to thought it was nothing like i had ever heard on the radio before. At that moment people realized there is at least a market large enough to make money in black communities selling rap records. Its not necessarily enough to sell it nationally or to sell it to mainstream markets. So markets. So from 1979 we move 1979 to groups like onto individuals like Grandmaster Flash and furious five for run dmc, the beastie boys. There is a slope where it gradually becomes aware, more and more people are consuming it to the. Where in the mid 90s it actually is sold and consumed nationally. There nationally. There is that moment in 1996 that i write about were for the 1st time rap and hiphop is actually recognized in the grammys, basically in the grammys are basically kind of the vehicle that basically the vehicle that is more responsible for legitimating musical genres and anything else. If you have a category for your musical form at the Grammy Awards show you can say you have arrived. At that moment moment lauryn hill has just arrived, she dominates the grammys. At one time she is collecting one of her awards and is like all of this from the pop. Now, i used that to talk about how we can think of politics because theyre are a number of different ways to think about politics. In that moment we get think about the politics involved in getting the reward category that lauryn hill is competing for. The grammys only give so many awards zero some resource. For every a war that is given there is some genre are some reward that is not given. We can talk about that competition and say that at that moment their is something that happens where essbase is created for black people like nobody will ever and we go back to 19 i remember reading the Detroit Free Press and i remember reading him in the early 80s talking about rap as if it were a fad. I kind of the pet rock with a rubiks cube. What that moment said was that was the moment where we finally say, no say, no, rapp is not a Fad Committee or to stay. We can talk about the politics of Popular Culture music that create the place. But at the same time one hell is accepting the award we have is around the same time the bill clinton ends up reforming welfare ends up putting a number of black people in the bottom of the safety net. There are a number of instances of Police Brutality at the moment lauryn hill accepts that award. A few years removed from the la rebellion. We can say that on one hand we have a space where blacks cultural reduction and values, and that the product of a certain type of politics, on the other hand we have all of this real political stuff going on for black people end up getting hurt as a result. What i want to do is juxtaposed the rise of hiphop as a result of a certain type of politics against the real politics that ends up finding black People Holding the bag in a certain way. Is there a segregation element to putting rap over here and why people music over here . Yes. There was. One way to think about that turn that moment is to backtrack a bit. So in wa basically cornered the market dont create glowing know of is next to wrap up become associated with will we no of is gangsta rap. To the extent that you can think of rap kind of crystallizing the number of stereotypes about black men, men, about as being predisposed to violence, incredibly aggressive, incredibly vulgar, they kind of package although stereotypes and one group. And there is a moment when they 1st come on the market where the only people who are consuming and music are the people who are primarily consuming the music are black people and in the music is marketed to black people. We we can think about the genre like Country Music in the same way on the other side in that they are producing music that largely marketed to white niche audiences. But the strange thing happens in the middle 90s. In the middle 90s there is we moved from counting record sales indirectly through sampling the nielsen ratings were everyone like one out of every maybe 2,000 people were so are asked about their preferences and then those 2,000 nielsen families preferences are used to make claims about what everyone is consuming. We move from that to something called soundscan. Soundscan. At the. Of purchase people can track what the record sales are. You go in the record store and buy a print some that we will be counted. So what happens in that moment the very weak soundscan is the thing that starts to track record scales. In wa and zen being number one. This group that know one would have imagined ever being number one because they do this thing only black people listen to because they are so vulgar and violent, they end up going to the top of the charts. At that moment people realize, oh, realize, zero my god rap and hiphop, they are not just a black thing. They are a thing that we all consume. The next thing you no that realization makes it possible for rap to be for snoop doggy dogg to appear in a commercial selling chrysler cars. So their is a segregation moment and we are still living in a to a certain. One of the things that happens in the mid 90s is that it is recognized that our musical tastes are a lot more diverse than what we think and rap and hiphop ends up being kind of the musical genre at the forefront of the movement. You talk a lot about neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is basically an ideology that argues that everything every aspect of human life should be judged according to the standard of the market. Market. Its kind of like an advanced form of capitalism. What it ends up doing is it ends up kind of. If you are not able to succeed in the world use end up being condemned to. I mention that welfare move talking about loren hill, talking about how around the same time loren hill wins the award on a hill, bill clinton basically repeals reforms welfare. Of this is dont just lose at the safety nets or not welfare they lose incredibly bad. And why those people lose. The condition was their fault. And and for rap and hiphop. What is the mature images on the front of this book . Guest in my spare time, and what it did four years ago, and feb. First of 2010, crisp clean is a d. J. One of the best pop music d. J. S on the face of the planet. I was showing University Minnesota press, potential pictures to use for the cover the first was the graffiti piece of obama back from inaugural actually on the red line metro. The second was eyeshot of big box, performing the in baltimore, that was my third choice because some of your viewers might know how music and had hop are complementary but not the same type. On rack at all. We will see but that is what they end up choosing. Up pretty good shot, i got him in the middle. Host are there hiphop artists who are political in their music . Guest yes. Someone like a mortal technique somebody like he has been in the game for decades but still performing work he is explicitly political. There are individuals, local artists out of st. Louis has been involved in the mike brown incident on the ground, he has been explicitly political. Host when eminem wraps can a white guy be hiphop . Guest oh yes, i think so. Particularly as a shout out to the troops. Host does eminem have a political message . Guest i think what he is really good at is giving voice to a particular type of white workingclass experience. If you think about politics, you just define politics as condos competition over scarce resources, very rarely do we see white workingclass youth with a voice, with a voice. When he talks about issues like mentalhealth from a very specific perspective, i say he is engaging in politics and that we can understand his work as expressing a certain type of politics. The first thing i thought of, leftleaning politics or nationalist politics, a number of different ways to articulate politics. He was not a political n c, and mortal technique. Host what about little wayne . Does he have the message . Guest does he have a message . Host does he tell the story . Guest he tells a story but he is a different type of political story understanding, reproducing the neil liberal turn i talk about in the book. In the book, i look at 400, 500 lyrics. One of the things that is made really early on, and something black people use to contests the political dynamic. And finds black people, on a number of social indicators. What he felt is more often than not, particularly with the rap that talked about real life, they reproduced the liberal turn, and valorizes wealth inequality as opposed to critiquing it. And made a distinction between people taking a moral technique, there making that distinction between people who critique that move was those who go with the flow so to speak. Someone who goes with the flow. Host is that something youd disagree with . Guest someone with politics something i disagree with. It is what it is. Host somebody picks up this book what are two things they are going to learn . Guest they are going to learn about neil liberalism. I think that is difficult to talk about black politics without talking about neo liberalism or wealth inequality talking about churches and growth of prosperity gospel or increasing degree to which black mayors in cities like they troy are forced to use austerity policies to rein in increased spending in house citys work. You learn about neo liberalism for hiphop in that book but you also learn what i tried to do is take the skills that i learned as a political scientist and apply them to really critical questions using Popular Culture so when you learn to a certain extent is how political scientists assess questions. How we make causal claims. To the extent you think that rap has an effect on attitude, how would you go about testing that . If you think for example watching read videos has an influence on you how would you go about testing that . You will see how folks like us end abusing things like experiments, how we use survey data how we go and look at Something Like rap lyrics to answer questions. Host professor Lester Spence of Johns Hopkins university is the author of stare in the darkness the limits of hiphop and black politics. University of Minnesota Press publisher. Every weekend booktv brings you 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on cspan2. Keep watching for more television for serious readers. From time to time the Washington Post will publish ebook on topics their reporters cover. Here is a collection of some of those books. In the case against bill cosby the coast interviewed five women who accuse bill cosby of assaulting them. It looks that Court Records from a previous case against the comedian. Next up profile of the 36th president , lyndon johnson, and a look at his legacy in the great society. Also on the list is a collection of Pulitzer Prize winning articles on the impact of food stamps on a small towns economy. To see what other ebook squashing compose has published a visit washingtonpost. Com ebook s. You are watching booktv on cspan2 with top nonfiction books and doctors every weekend. Booktv television for serious readers. On booktv this weekend we are live from politics and prose bookstore in washington d. C. With the author of the upstairs wife about her experiences as a woman in pakistan. We take a trip to corpus christi, texas to bring you the areas literary scene and the visit to Johns Hopkins university to talk with professors of the college series. Journalist toby hearten recalls his time imbedded in afghanistan. Steven brill when dr. Ezekiel emanuel discuss the Health Care System and millville house talks about the Book Publishers decision to release the Senate IntelligenceCommittee Report on torture. For a complete Television Schedule booktv. Org. Booktv 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. Television for serious readers. Next on booktv from the Hudson Institute in washington d. C. Alex nowesteh and Mark Krikorian debate the United States immigration policy. This is 2 hours and 48 minutes. Good morning. I am Kenneth Weinstein president and ceo of Hudson Institute. I would like to welcome our audience our audience on cspans booktv. Those of our panelists who have already arrived and those who will be arriving in a couple minutes, let me simply note Hudson Institute is an International Policy research station based on the proposition that security, prosperity and defense of global order requires strategic and engage u. S. International leadership in partnership with our allies. We are delighted to be hosting todays event with the center for Immigration Reform and encounter books on the location of publication of a new encounter broadside on the debate over immigration which Roger Kimball when introduce shortly. Theres not much debate over president obamas recent executive order is over immigration which an overwhelming majority of both liberal and conservative constitutional scholars view as unconstitutional but theres a significant debate in the country over immigration. Different positions are held, deeply passionately and reflect frankly differences, tensions in americas founding principles. We will hear this morning from noted conservative whose views strongly differ on this subject. Let me say a few words about encounter books before we get underway. Encounter books stance on trends in the publishing world by publishing serious books on critical policy and cultural questions under the leadership of Roger Kimball, the publisher and president. Roger is of course well known as well as editor and publisher of the new criterion, a wonderful new york journal as culture and arts the former New York Times arts editor. Rogers books and articles have appeared in every serious publication every publication of consequence in the english language. Roger is known for his sensibilities, his willingness to challenge the vacuous of the avantgarde in the name of the western tradition and his dedication to sensible and open debate on critical questions. With that let me with great pleasure turn it over to roger. Thank you. Your frankness does you credit. I am delighted to welcome you all and we will soon be welcoming two more panelists who were delayed in traffic i guess. This is a critical debate and wheat will be handing out when you leave copies of this important broadside encounter books has