Look for them to air in the near future. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] thank you for coming. My name is doug sands. Dash my greatgrandmother. The historian ive known for almost 20 years. Become a very good request. A professor at the university of richmond also a good friend and are going to talk tonight about his new book. Without further ado welcome and thank you. Thank you. [applause] i want to thank doug and always wonderful people. Im also excited about being in conversations with jim down who i met. All these social apps werent there. So it was an intellectual interaction. It was in case any of you are thinking about it. Very committed to participation. And they had an opportunity to talk. And part of that history has been accrued. Anything that happened before is really part of an archive the very few have had an opportunity to investigate which is part of why it is important to me as well as for those of you have not read the book, and those of you who have that you raise your hand. Awesome. So the book tries to understand for former stages , the Liberation Movement which has to do with something that seems fundamentally antithetical sally got together along the lines of identity to form community and safeguards that would allow them to thrive in ways that otherwise would not have. Connecting people for the internet age in a way that gets them close and interested in politics in a way that right now because of information that is part of a political problem right now. Third was the question of how it was in particular we really had that termination in terms of my belief in various costs. I know none of you were born in the 70s, but think through how the police were getting together and engaging for commerce, for love in aa culture that fundamentally denies the right to be together. And the 4th component that i would like to focus on has to do with the emergence the 70s. So that has been superseded by a lot of initiatives attend some my gay marriage, for those of us invested in politics the 70s outside the scriptures. So part of the conversation is about the story begins with which has to do with the 1973 by that happens in new orleans in one of these that im sure we are so well familiar with together remember past loves future hostilities. The story has been fundamentally delighted and deranged. In part how to approach an object of study my greatness , lg bt communities in the 70s and how wondering before we go into those four frames ive just given you how that began your investigation. So, before i began i just want to say major shout out for hosting us here tonight. The reality of it is is that for a people like this a bar is a place for people to come together, not only become the other socialize, the party, throughout the 1970s and even to the present parties and communities happened in mars like this. Tonight were going to here the discussion but also the party that is happening here because that is what it means to be clear, what it means to be gay, to occupy space like this. They are welcoming you and our committee, welcoming you in the way in which things have been done within Gay Community many decades. That is the last. So there are many books about gay history out there, lots, lots of books about how the postworld war ii era we started to find some semblance of gay people fighting for rights, creating our communities and developing a sense of self. And what has happened over time is that we have created the story the decade after decade from world war ii in 1969 was because of the stonewall rebellion. The 1970s to the 1980s to the 1990s we as a people immobilized and succeeded. It is as a historian i realize that is not actually true. Were and in the 1970s is often not talked about, often overshadowed and the question is what is overshadowed that . The answer to that is the outbreak of hivaids. And so many of you know the ways in which hivaids has devastated the lives of countless americans, but what people have not realized is the extent to which the hiv epidemic actually retold the history of the 1970s. The 1970s was this incredibly vibrant, diverse moment in American History they give way to an explosion of churches, an explosion of newspapers on before there were ads, trucks, there were grinder, they need to communicate and they turned to newspapers. Yes, the history has been overshadowed because doctors policymakers, Public Health officials were looking for an explanation for why hiv spread. And what they said was, the 1970s was a period of unfettered debt, they were gay guys and orgies, gay guys at bars my gay guys just having sex. And my question as a historian was how much of that is true and how much of that has been used to rationalize the spread of hiv. With the 70s in fact this period about just sex or have we divined that era is about just sex in order to explain the epidemic . And my argument is that we have alluded the history of the 1970s as a way to tell the origin narrative and that as a result so many keep points in the history of the 1970s have remained untold. The fact that there was this extensive and exhaustive religious network, a pre culture, that came in with thinking about different types of bodies from bears will be came to no is the clone. But all that history to all of that vibrance all the nuance all that detail became shortened, reduced to a story about explaining hiv. So that is what basically started the history of my book, ask questions and what led me to uncovering the quite horrific and poignant story. The upstairs lounge, kind of method in your book. We apprehend, those methods have a lot to say about the historians of the region. The kind of methods from 1973 informed the rest of the book and become the framing object of the study. Let me just give a quick history. Most people dont know about it. In the history is really significant. Why was so excited to be here tonight for this event was because as i mentioned earlier, bars have been the site where gay people came together. In the early 1970s many gay people begin to organize church groups, religious organizations, and other institutions but were left out of mainstream religious institutions. So they had to create their own. What they did is, i used to occupy the 2nd floor bars, take over a 2nd floor, takeover room and organize the religious service. So a new orleans bunch of gay guys came in to a bar in the early afternoon, had a beer glass door heard about the new of the uprising. How the gay men learned about stonewall new orleans. They didnt talk about it. But the gay press talked about it. So gay newspapers carried the story from new york to a place like new orleans, and gay men gathered on june 241973 to celebrate the anniversary of stonewall, but after the beer bus ended everyone left and went home, people hooked up and partied , members of the Metropolitan Community Church sprinted the 2nd room floor of the bar. And they gathered around a white piano. I think that is his name, he crossed the street from the holiday inn where he worked late. They began singing his song united we stand, divided we fall, if our back should ever be up against the wall we will be together. Someone knocked on the door to get into the gay bar. In the 1970s gay bars and i have openwindows like this you had to buzz the buzzer and the bartender opened up a patch like a prohibition speakeasy and goes condo, we and ask for a. And then he heard a noise and someone took a fireball and threw it on the 2nd floor of the church, the bar converted into a church. These men were locked into a room in the way we could be locked into this room except in new orleans bars over the windows. So the memoir unable to get out. If you were younger guy, the thinner guys were able to miraculously squeeze their bodies through the bars in the window, and many try to escape through a back entrance, but the smoke filled the rooms, the electricity went out and over 32 people died in the fire. It is the largest massacre of gay people in us history, and it happened at home. When i discovered evidence of the fire in the newspaper in philadelphia as i was going through the records, i realized the outbreak of hivaids which was a major genocide overshadowed this, and i realized that the history of this violence committed against gay people as not resolved. I want to say to you, history often feels like something that is isolated from the past. But i am not going to say to you that history repeats itself. I want to and my telling you the story of reverend logsdon, the person who led this congregation in prayer, the person who ran the ncc church. When he tried to escape out the window the upstairs lounge he pushed the air conditioner out the window. And when he pushed in a condition out the window one from the floor above fell on him and hit him and then his body was launched and stuck in the window. His body was left for over a day in the window. The new orleans papers reported this. The major press showed images of his body lies in the window not removed by the fire department, not removed from the police. And when i saw the story i thought about ferguson. When. When i saw the story i thought about michael brown. I thought about black lives matter command i thought about the fact that when you think what mobilized black lives matter was the idea that Michael Browns body was left on the street and in a very similar way reverend larsons body was left in a window. And just like Michael Browns body mobilized likewise matter, reverend larsons body mobilized gay people throughout the country in order to fight for recognition. Relegated by virtue of the fact the sea reports in 1981 we begin to lose our historical connection in those communities that protect 1st understand our history. One thing that hivaids did after 1981 is when you think of the Reagans Comeau we tend to whitewash the history of the relegated us to a type of nonexistence that is no relationship meaningful, much like what you mentioned right now, likewise matter which is now substantiated as the brown lives matter after the attacks from trump. So part of that could been through history and were meaningful. A good ask questions with far more than we are used to. So i have a story, brings us closer. The 1st thing is that when you think about this question you have to remember that most gay people dont understand or think about their history has significant. And one of the things is that if you were to ask most gay people what is the history they would try to trace that to where were the origins for Marriage Equality, the origin for antidiscrimination laws, the origin for anti sodomy laws. And what im trying to do today is in the 1970s gay people werent interested in understanding their history, not as a vehicle or tool the fight with the government, not as a vehicle or tool is a way to show that they are legitimate, but as a vehicle or tool to bring people together as a community, as a vehicle or tool to show that we as a people have a significant history that connects us and that brings us together, that allows us to stand together, and it is not necessarily being mobilized to fight whatever injustice is against us. If you woke up and opened in 1970 newspaper guys are reading this completely arcane should, stuff like amy lowell was a 19th century borderline average writer from the period. And they are reading these twopage exits on her because they want to know about where people from the past, lesbians, their history. They are not just trying to write the history because they need to prove to people that they are valid, not trying to write their history to prove that they are legible. They want to connect with each other and they want to also connect and create a community. If you think about it, that is why American History develops. In the 1950s if you went to a university and said you wanted to study American History it was like saying you want to study cartoons. People thought that American History was posted. Real history was American History, classical history. It we created a narrative about American History, the tea party is created a narrative, the republicans have created a narrative. Hillary clinton, Bernie Sanders created a narrative about history in order to situate themselves. Gay people have always created an narrative about history to situate themselves which has been lost today and creation of a grinder profile. I just showed up. I woke up like this. The reality is you didnt. Come out of the historical context, historical moment, the period that allows you to show up like this. That is part of the conversation to have. [applause] not having fathers or mothers. Multiple callers and identities and made it happen. So we talked today about portions of history, it reminds me of a very poignant chapter in your book about what you call the macho blown. Inherited a version of antiseptic fairness that fundamentally is single issue driven and that has to do with Marriage Equality. Who gets left out of those conversations when we focus on one version and negate the very foundation that has become undone by virtue of the aids crisis. Before understanding polyamorous relationships and we are absolutely connected. They lead up to loneliness. We are never alone. Meaningful in relation to Human Connection is what is absolutely beautiful but that particular chapter. Focused on disruption. I would say for most gay men they wake up and go to the gym and have a particular ideal of what the body type is going to be an think its something they just invented in their minds. And its like you think you have invented this identity yourself, but in the 1970s what you begin to see is that there are many forms of being queer many forms of being gay then at a certain moment by late 1970s white men began to push out men of color, push out women the only way to be himself really think thats five solid, leather jacket, aviator sunglasses. And if you didnt follow that archetype and you werent gay. And part of it was a way in which they racialized what it meant to be gay. But in actuality if you go back to the stonewall rebellion, if you go back to the early 1970s, you are here today it existed because of the womens Liberation Movement because activists learned. They learned from feminists, took those ideas in order to make issues visible. By the late 1970s all of that was erased for some quite effective and appealing guy the completely undermines the history of the origin of the liberation. Im not know what we will do is open this up to questions from the audience and if we have a cspan audience watching at home we hope that you use the microphone ask question. The very important observation. Type of protection that absolutely negated other bodies that didnt exist within the body politic. I am happy to share the microphone. A questiona question from the audience. Were dying to hear from you. First of all, it is an honor to hear you speak. And just a huge source of inspiration for me. I love stand by me. Obviously you are a historian. All the stories you tell in the book are historically accurate, but your writing is so incredible that many times i found that it was really emotional and especially the upstairs lounge, reading that event i had to put down the book and take a minute. I was tearing up. Is it difficult to write about parts of history that are so emotionally charged, or can you try to separate yourself from the emotion when you are writing . That is really great question. Thank you so much. It is the emotional part of the story. There is a process that because very academic. You sort of lose that. What i wanted to do with the book is to be able to carry through that emotion in the same way which i found it in the archives. To be able to articulate it in a way that wasnt melodramatic but really trying to capture the experience of these peoples lives. Back to the new orleans feeling you described, he talked about the press coverage became . I think it illustrates the dynamic of where we were as a people and the culture. We dont know who set the fire. Maybe its not homophobic. Maybe it was just an act of vandalism, violence. But i secondguessed myself on this all the time. When you asked the question about the press coverage that followed it, one of the questions that the new orleans local media asked in the immediate aftermath was how many gay men died. The answer was not enough. Another question was how many were jarred, using the metaphor as a way of explaining the bar and people getting trapped. Even to this day you will not find homophobia in such illustrative terms. But the way that i have experienced homophobia is people will say, well, its only 32 people. There is a way of in the wake of Marriage Equality and i think that gay rights has been achieved, even today is about downplaying it, it is only 32 people. My point is not to compare atrocities but to at least offer a grid. Remains not covered today. It remains not part of traditional history. The story remains something that could be pushed aside or under the headlines. You made an important comment about the context into and some of this forgotten history of peoples fascination and at the same time, so much of that character groups and Unlawful Possession [inaudible] i wonder if there was any fascination at this particular juncture. Two things. First, people were trying to find anyone who looked like them throughout history and heres the evidence. If you pick up the police today in the main newspaper you will not find an article about the past. If you pick up from the 1970s youll find an article about the ancient greek and People Living in the middle east and they have a kind of understanding of relations in the middle east and they were looking at any context and more to the point if i ask any of you in this room were they not subject you would all know thats true. You would know they were placed in camps and exterminated like other groups were during world war ii and my question for you is how do you know that . You know that because coming out of bars and Community Centers went in in the 1970s in order to do the research, in order to prove that the genocide of people who were killed during world war ii were not only jews but also men because the traditional chroniclers didnt mention that they were exterminated and gay people covered this fascinating story about the culture that existed in berlin in the 1930s. It was published in an Academic Book and they had a meeting and they published it in gay newspapers so if you are going to come home late from the bar and you pick up the newspaper and want to find out what happened the next day, you would be reading about the nazi genocide and that happened from communitybased historians so they didnt see that if they were american and separate. They saw themselves as connected to those people. [inaudible] the title initially was the forgotten history of liberation for the ways in which gay people s lives existed beyond this incredible culture and then my publisher said no, people wont get it, people wont understand it. And i thought about stand by me because it is this moment that reminds me of the fire they were singing united we united we stand and divided we fall. The notion of the community and culture is about standing together. He said im so proud to stand together with other gay people, so it is a metaphor just like coming out of the closet as a metaphor so so much of the book is about stand by any as a community and as a culture. We probably have time for maybe one more question. [inaudible] [applause] running for the presidency, Ronald Reagan had courted bikini operatives by vowing to nominate only they committed prolife jurists to the nations highest court. The winning of the national right to committee had been into private meetings with the groups president where he promised just. O. Connor thing then was a startling choice. They looked up the voting records from her time as an Arizona State legislator and they found a history of prochoice votes. Ronald reagans intention in the words of the action fund raising letter seemed insulting and the newspapers and magazines deep pride to make a decried. The various organization complained of the growing sense that given his actions, the president didnt think the coalition contributed to the election. The religious right faced challenges of its own making and for all the talk of an Ecumenical Movement on behalf of the conservative social issues, the religious right operated largely along the denominational lines in its dealings with the white house. The leadership ranks, the organizations coordinated with each other but more often work alone or in partnership especially in the fundamentalist groups with likeminded believers. This has been the case in the runup to the election but the divided operations in the Campaign Season seemed the most logical way to diverse constituencies. The conviction that Ronald Reagan was the man be needed in the white house to deliver all their goals have united their denied efforts. Once the assumed the presidency, the strains of the conservative christianity would come together as the bloc representing the religious values. To make sure the president turned the nation back and delivered on their agenda. While there were moments of cooperation within the religious right during the years, far more often the various components of the network worked in isolation opening up the divisions even in the share issues and working in direct opposition of issues they never discussed. The religious right founded what could have been the best moment driven by the theological disagreements disagreements that yielded but yielded the political consequences and often divided by different political objectives reflecting their unique theological convictions. What emerged was at best the coalition of the religious conservatives. Frequently fraught with dissension, disagreement and the possibility of dispersion. For the white house that hesitated over the lining itself too closely with what often appeared the religious right to divisions in the network proved a useful scapegoat. Rather than working to smooth over the disagreements, the broker compromises the Ronald Reagan officials sat back and allowed this to continue and pointed to the chaos to avoid the responsibility of the leadership are explained away to support the legislative setbacks. On the major objectives for the presidency, School Prayer and abortion, the networks nature helped the policy objectives that have always been a formidable project and on other issues of concern they took different positions that demonstrated the diversion in challenged the notion of the conservative ecumenism. I talk about how these moments were these opportunities around these causes that many thought he would be the greatest champion of and they would get something done about the abortion and School Prayer but other issues i explore in the chapter really fall apart and one of the explanations i give for that is that this movement is so new in terms of its political organizing and advocacy. So in the late 70s as they are coming together as a coherent political constituency its quite easy for them to imagine getting stuff done on the shared political issues, so abortion or School Prayer. But once Ronald Reagan is in Office Office into these things have to be tackled not just in terms of politics but have to be tackled legislatively through the political process, the movement falls apart because you see these groups not really unified but in fact kind of scurrying to their own corners and pursuing their own political and legislative and legal strategies that are sometimes at odds with each other and a lot of these have to do the different theological positions on abortion that the Catholic Church is putting forward a political strategy that would allow for no exception as they are willing to work with political compromise over in the School Prayer you have different activists realizing this idea of the amendment to restore School Prayer is a nice idea but how do you actually do that, how do you write a piece of legislation that appeases everyone and doesnt offend the religious values in jeopardy because you dont want your evangelical child saying a prayer that might sound to catholic or or mormons of these issues kind of fall apart at the policy and the legislative area. James explores the challenges of partnership and governance next on book tv. Rofer welcome, professor from the american university. Also the coeditor of thes