Book tv continues with so the and desk. She represents a history of people who escaped slavery and traded self sufficient communities in desert regions of the south. This is about 50 minutes. [applause] thank you very much for the introduction. I am delighted to be here to play the role of questionnaire. The marvelous new book slaverys exiles. At the end we will have zero little time for questions from the audience. Theyre is a microphone over there for the purpose. Keep in mind as we finish our conversation. Just to remind you what was said, you can purchase are but outside as it is well worth doing. I think to begin Sylviane Diouf wanted to read a passage from the book. We would like to start that way. Actually, at the end. At the end. Okay. So we will blend right then. Actually, let me just ask uses the term ruin is maybe not totally widely known what exactly is marin . Yes, and around, actually the term comes. At the beginning it was somewhat used. By a extension it was used for runaway slaves. In spanish and french. Becomes maroon in english now what is interesting also is that there is a kind of run away. It became really useful, settled but in the United States marine was actually reserved for the communities. Marines were called runaway or l. Meyers. Normally when we think of runaway slaves would think of people coming up to the north, getting to canada. You are talking about people who have established communities in the south. Yes. Communities are families remained in the south. Yes. Now how did you interested in the subject . It is a very interesting and unusual one, but not that many people average about it. How did you read into it . I did actually start wanting to write a book. I wanted to really read books. A lot about marines in jamaica and brazil and cuba. I was looking for information. And i could not find anything. I found references to my chapter here and there, something on a particular community, something on a particular region. But nothing really comprehensive and detailed and covering the entire time. So i said well, maybe there is nothing to really find. Let me just look. As i started to look up from a lot of things. Excellent. There is advanced literature on slavery in the United States, as you well know. Why you think this particular aspect was where neglected . And you are quite right. This is really the first book about the ruins as a general phenomenon in american and southern history. There were some articles ceram there, as you said, but not really very much. What you think it has been neglected up to respond . When i mentioned doing research in the United States, you know, their action was, florida. I said, no, im talking about virginia, the carolinas, georgia to louisiana. People are surprised. Well when we looked at to about people think of florida because theres a large community. And that is what people think. They think brazil says, jamaica. And the idea, you know, of a large, growing community, well, there were the exceptions. For the americans marin communities are actually small, you know, not as big as well we think. They lived for sometimes only several months, several years, one generation. And so what they do, again, because the communities look for individuals and groups and communities based on three criteria. Thats settled. They have to leave there in secret, and that is tsongas there is no control whatsoever. And when i took those criteria than i really find a whole world that has very much remained under the radar even though they represent the global majority. And my criteria to exclude a member a number of people to my those, for example, i mean, there were just there for a few days. Also excluded the marines a florida because they were not leaving florida and sickert. And basically also the left and generations. And they were not leaving in secret either. Right. There was you mentioned the brazilian example. Very wellknown. There was a film years ago. Brazilian, but that is a gigantic settlement. So given that their secret, one of your criteria, how did you find information about them . If they did not leave diaries, letters, that did not publish newspapers presumably. There were in secret. What kind of sources did you manage to find . Kind of a surprise. Where are going to look for a information. And i use, for example, the 1600s. I used at the legal documents because very early on those tax mentioned again to use the term, but the really we can see what they were doing, what there were actually saying. Then you have the plantation books, trees. And also used newspapers there were discovered there were against marins as well as the activity. One very gives sores, very detailed. You can follow people and then sometimes back through the plantation. And then you also wants the i saw that in documents. For example, there were trials as well as trials of people. That gives firstperson distillers. There were also i did not even think of it at the beginning. The runaway spirit and some times they lived in the woods are sometimes, but the thing about their family members, or example,. [inaudible] the sister was on marron. For years she lived in the woods and had three children there. As you know about 2300. And there i saw really their intimate things. People there were talking about my uncle, my aunt, my father who was living in the woods and with their rig doing their relationship with the community. So those were there were lots of different sources. And by combining them you can really draw, you know, the most accurate portrait that japan. In jamaica, if im not mistaken, the authorities, the british government, etc. Eventually conducted treaties were agreed to treaties with the marooned communities. A thing like that in the United States . No. There were no trees of that sort communities are small, you know, for example from one individual to communities of about 18. But there was never that kind of situation. What kind of places to these marooned communities establish themselves and . This sort of landscape here. There we talking about places very far from the plantations are actually pretty close . What sort of Geographic Area are we talking about . That is one of the things. I realized very early that i had to construct my own to really explore and evidence the breath. In the realize that, you know, there have been useful. Did not really respect the reality. When i looked at what was going on on the ground i came up with the idea of the marin landscaped. This marin landscape, though brother and the. [indiscernible] and when we think of those, we have this idea of people, but what i saw was that actually it leaves a very large area. At the borders, but they also went to the city. The people lived. Theyre living in secluded areas as. That, you know, it was part of this landscape. And that landscapes actually went into the transition and into the cities. So we have a very large measure. Also they use the entire, then move from one to another or from one state to another. There were using the entire geographic to their advantage. When people escaped from plantations and lived in the woods or other areas, their families come with them or do they go back to farms and plantations to see there families. How does family relation plan . That something had discovered which was fascinating. When people run away to the north or canada they sever our relations with their family. That is something very hard to do. Spend the rest of your life wondering did he she make it number where did he die . Now one of the reasons, one of the reasons and there are many, one of the reasons why morale and became marin is that what they wanted to do was to leave with the family to, you know, be free. And what they did was, for example, the old family would leave the plantation at the border. There were also of the cases. As you know slavery dislocated families. With the slave trade that became even more dramatic with people being sold from virginia to alabama. So what people did was to use a number of strategies to keep the families together. For example, if one the only place that they could be with their family even if there on the plantation. That was the only way they had to keep their families together. That is very interesting. It suggests send your book shows of course that the way have been describing it we should not think it would sharpers a distinction between marines living away from plantation and then people were slaves on farms and plantations. This seemed to intersect with each other, creating a with each other. Presumably marines have some kind of assistance from slaves who were living with us slavery, maybe food, maybe information. Yes. And this continues relations between people on the plantation. Just to give you an example weve been talking a lot about him. To the plantation. You know, thats was very, very common. Whether they live at the borders or one that was one of the reasons to give come mieno love uncovered infringe to give information the role of the community was really crucial. You can imagine marins work in night. Took, you know, themselves slaughtered cattle and pigs and once this is use. Thats what im talking about, alas landscapes. They continued to have very calm and very crucial and close relationship with the people. Now slaves to escape to the north, some of them became very famous abolitionist, as you well know, speakers are frederick douglass, those prominent. Quite a few others. And the abolitionists made it big devoted a lot of attention to talking about fugitive slaves and publicizing what happened a fugitive slaves. Did maroons play a part in the abolitionist . Did abolitionists talk about marrons . Did they use them as evidence of the evils of slavery or did they tend to ignore them . They tried to ignore them which was to me kind of interesting. But says maybe it was notsharking. Kind of river. In the idea behind that was the evil of slavery. To escape enslavement black people being so full was not exactly what the abolitionists were about. So this will put it that way. So they didnt mention at all, very, very rarely. How did they in my image anyway, it was revealed Self Reliance closely patrolled, people looking for fugitives, looking for slaves sure of the plantation without permission. How did these little groups of communities manage to escape just being captured . And that is one of the things that is really exciting to see. Of course, you know, many were captured, but you also have people in managed to remain hidden for years. I am thinking, for example, of. He, his wife, and their children live in the woods for more than 15 years. They got out of the was only after emancipation. People spend seven years, ten years, 20 years in the woods. You have to really admire people who were able to go to the plantation several times a week. An example of this man who lived a few miles from his wife and two children. And he lives there for years and so emancipation. During that time his wife has two children who look exactly like the other two. And i dont know. It was the day he ran away. And actually came three times a week, you know, to see here for five years, you know, it is absolutely extraordinary. Without the complicity of the community this would not have been possible. Just look at. [inaudible] and people know, people know either that general are very precisely, especially those who were close to the plantation. And they did not talk. But one of the ways that people who lived on the plantation was to me was real revelation because when you do that, you know, it is a very risky situation. The drivers and everybody, you know, around. So you have cirque completely disappear. And to the environment some people need actually to do others on several. Others in natural caverns, but there is something that to me was absolutely mindboggling. People also live underground. They dug house is underground. The care. And they 63 under the ground. In know, you know, when you think of a kind of resourcefulness and credibility that you need to be a will to do this but also when you think of the fact that there were so important to, they could get children out. But put ten men and some of the children never got out. I mean, you know, when you think of that you it is really hard wrenching. But the best option that they found for their children to be free but was for them to live underground. You have all these incredible determination as to be free it to remain free. At the same time what i found was that the fact that people live underground, you know, newspapers in the south mentioned. Newspapers inoculate the information and nobody had anything to say about it. There was no command. Even the abolitionists would not mention it. So, you know, this is really tamarins were housed in cement. Completely absent of the american sentiment. That is what we mean. I am seen references to People Living in caves, but these are not normal caves, whenever that is. There were these underground things that were dug and build and could be fairly extensive. Yes. Interesting. How do you think more gosh fits into the larger story of slave resistance . Is it a major part of it, a small side issue . Is it part of the spectrum when ranging from people on plantations resisting to a slave rebellion this . How do you fit it into a story of what we know is continual resistance by africanamericans slavery . I think, you know, it is a major problem because just in terms of sheer numbers and we both know what the numbers are, by the way, but at any point there were thousands of marines, you know, again, individuals, more groups, large communities. Especially all over the south. Sheer numbers, you know, what is unique in their place in the resistance is that they were unique in many ways. Very few people believe. Even less on the ground. And also adding a special kind of freedom. So nobody else was. When, you know, they created. [indiscernible] , when somebody runs away as south tower when people run away to the north of canada or when even for three blocks it was all under control. Humiliated. A million things they could not do, were not allowed to do. And they created live in the slavery southland in the free north. And what i can say is also the fact that you know, these ideals of voluntary separation, this is something that was within the africanamerican community. You find that actually in many different forms whether its religious, cultural, political, economic, social. I can see that with a black church. I concede that with the nation of islam. The black power movement. All of this idea of voluntary separation and budget determination, we see the marines as really the precursor of ideas that really run deep into the africanamerican experience. A lot of the information in the book is from the colonial era. You said you dealt with laura early on. As the south gets more populated , as the 19th century goes along the population grows, the words began to be taken over by plantations and farms. I mean, does the opportunity or the options shrink as there are less areas to kind of survive in . Well, what i saw really is actually a diminish and of large communities. Really the large communities that i to large communities, and a 1780s. But then we see other communities to miami, in the eighties and sixties actually kind of cultural settlements. Fields, you know, people contributing corn and rice and cows and pigs. One of the things. So they need to exist. And they continue to the end. Actually, we can see them coming out of the woods. When they came to south and going out of the woods with the army, we also see some mergers actually in morning. Some marines, if im not mistaken, stayed in boyds and caves for a while and then headed off to the Northern Canada face. [inaudible] the golan being marooned and then go to the north. As you know, i have some examples. There were also, people wanted to go to the north and could not begin for one reason or another. One of the areas you mentioned a couple which is not sound like a very hospitable place, thats off the beaten path. The reason, there were some money. Kaj in the 19th century, there were 3,000 marines there. But xbox the south and virginia in the north. And people actually run away there. Some more really, really, release secret. On the canal. Endurance when unemployed russians. To trade. We see ignorance they traded that. And one of the things that they the trade was that they traded for was guns and ammunition. On. And we are going to turn sent to open the floor for questions from the audience. I wanted to allow slaverys exiles to do a little reading. One of the things that needs to be mentioned not for everyone. It was difficult. It was our life. People have to be very crazy. A number of external qualities to be a will to provide. Some of them became heroes. When you read the interviews see people is say, well, their work well. Day is better windfall cut caused deep love monopoly it took advantage of caught a challenging environment. So the alarms. Wheels and overall the story is one of courage and resourcefulness. Could not understand why emirate would not return and suffered hard times, simply reply i refuse to be free. [applause] thank you. Im just wondering about their geographical danger. I heard you Say Something about some of the women, the children never came out from the caves. I just wanted to know if you could expand on that. What did you mean by that. Well, for example, there were people live in caves, some got out. No one left that night. During the day they remain hidden. But some, for example, the wives and the children never get out of the cave. They lived completely in the cave. And we have examples or interviews of people that remember that when children got out of the cave and they have, you know, there were very shy. They did not want to be around people. You know, they were said to be twice. So people would go their lives to children in the cave. Go ahead. I just want to compliment you and thank you for sharing our history as part of our history that i really did not know about i knew about it in the caribbean but not in the u. S. Makes me feel very proud to know that we fought and we struggled and we survived. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] says. And taking up from their to my and my teacher. My students are very splendid to hear me talk about how excited i am about this learning. You did mention in the book something about captain cousteau. So was the communication between them . If so how. I talk about this as a community. In georgia and south carolina. That is really unique in the United States. The whole war camp. Captain cadre. When you could the name of the probability that people, people actually live in the caribbean. There may have been, you know, some kind of talking about the marins of jamaica. We dont know. Thank you. Okay. Next. Hi. I was wondering of what your Research Revealed that the educational system in the community. What . The educational system that they had. What. Education. Education. Any access to education. No. Anything at all. No. There is none. Of course remember slaves, a it was against a lot to teach slaves to read and write. Education was an assumption that was readily available. What they were doing and what sort of agency and latitude they hand. One of the other questions, was there any particular areas in the south a new sec concentrations. At the height of how Many Americans would see them were in the south. The first questions about the citys. Their plenty of these samples of marins is what the city. Traded. As incredible as it sounds in tomorrow as there were plenty of marins at night. And then they retreated to the woods. The other question was about the members. As i mentioned, we dont know. As i said, and maybe thousands any given point, but how many exactly is not something that is possible to know. Just like were geographically it is difficult to say the most. There were more rumors all over. There warmer and sear in new york. Dormers and brooklyn, and holland. There warmer in san every state, mieno, we know that, for example, and louisiana because of the landscape there, you know, should there were a lot. South carolina and virginia. Thank you. Remember, it was pretty hard to get to the north. Almost all the future slaves in the north for from maryland, virginia, kentucky. Really boring and free soil. If you were in alabama have with been pretty hard to to the north the the become comoran or futures went to cities like montgomery. It would of been pretty difficult. The prole a temper couple more questions. When she was a signing books. Thank you. And thank you for the presentation. It is very interesting. I was curious about the marines in the swamps and their relationship to life growing in real life, of course, something that is grown in swamps became with the knowledge of going from africa. The foregoing a. Theyre quite an attractive thing for them, the agricultural perspective. Actually, what i was looking at, in terms of food, most. In louisiana and south carolina, there are two areas where people were used the current staff. Mostly, the main cracks in the United States, and that communities was picks. Growing requires a kind of hydraulic system of canals and whites in dates and it is probably not something that runs would have been in a position to construct, you know. The marin kennedys were small, you know, or rather small. So that, again, when you the demise it becomes more expanded. Okay. The final question, sir. Yeah. The have not read your work, but i am looking forward to it. I have a question in relationship to marins, being that looking at louisiana i just want to focus on that, louisiana before the Louisiana Purchase is practically a french entity. Being an also france and 80, theres a lot of, you know, transfer between from haiti and louisiana through the French Connection and also being that in 1793 the first refugee crisis in america when a lot of the last remnant of the french fled and came to louisiana and being that also like we said that there are a lot of interconnections between the two of them. We knew in haiti that there is a Large Population of marins. So being there, dont you think that also is something that could have led to the spread of the burns . I am not sure at all because burns and louisiana or anywhere else didnt need encouragement or anything from anybody. So i dont think that, you know, haiti would have had any influence on that particular sentence. Thank you. Okay. Well, let us all think Sylviane Diouf. And we can reconvene and out of the alcove there were the book will be available. See you there. [applause] youre watching book tv. For more information visit the authors website. Jamess next. He argues for the americans that they want to know what the country will be like the liberals have their way out taxation many to look no further in california where citizens are taxed more heavily than anywhere else in the country. This is about an hour