Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Lion Of The Senate 20160307

I want to follow that up with another question if i might, but first, doris, help us understand the context for this frenetic period in washington, d. C. In the mid 1990s. President of one party of uncertain ideology sometimes, congress in one parties control, and then this protein force that so hard to understand and yet so fun to watch. As you look back through American History, and my god, you studied since the civil war forward, are there analogous situations in our history when we can compare this to something, or does this actually merit the word unique . Weve seen cycles in American History where there is an activist government and people feel good about whats happening, would you think about the turn of the 20th century with the Progressive Movement at all the legislation that came out of that repenting exploitation of women and children factories and breaking up the big monopolies. Then at a certain period of time may be partly because of world war i, private lives and private values become more important than some of his collective public functions. We went into the 20s with a desire for normalcy, i decide to go backwards. Republican parties got great control. Then comes the depression and to get the new deal and world war ii. Then you have a period in the 50s again where theres a pullback and as it is actually government be smaller because it has become bigger. Denier the 60s again where youve got the rights of the Civil Rights Movement and social movements pushing in from the outside in. Youve got a great deal of activism, a lot of legislation. Then the war in vietnam but also maybe one of these cycles that happens. Thathen you did reagan in the 1980s and then you do have clinton winning the election in 92 but i think even while they won it, this undercurrent of frustration with government does being felt by large sections of the country, the concerned about law and order that was a part of the Newt Gingrichs control, the feeling that too many people were staying in washington and what about themselves so that his term limit things at certain times of, he came up with the really interesting thing to have a National Program for the individual congressmen to run on. Even now when i look back on it at least was a battle of ideas within. You look at these guys know in washington and you dont see that happening in a certain sense. What it really means to me though is what made it successful or not just kennedy but for the republicans who joined with them producing these bills that have no was experience. What looked at the current elections with outsiders now especially the Republican Party have invested lots of centers have been there for long periods of time, its a worrisome thing that were turning our back or seems to be according to the polls on people who havent experienced. Theres something still to me something noble about being a politician, the idea that these people who worked there were able to compromise, work with each other, they understood compromise at the core of the system. They should be honored for it. I worry now whether we are creating a whole bunch of young people who look at washington and thank you i really want to be one of those guys who cant get along with each other, who cant get anything done . Where are the heroes . I want to follow about people do better than these guys speed if i could i would like to follow that up in just a second, but first, if i might, senator kennedy had to play some defense in 1995 because there was torn of proposals from the new majority in both the house and the senate on both the tax side and the Domestic Program side, the regulatory side. In order to unite the members of his own party, he also had to enlist a president , his name was clinton, who was being towed in different directions, even though more than the senator was at that meeting the preceding labor day. Can you give us a feel for the senators relationship with clinton, president clinton, and how it evolved during 1995 . I think he had a very Good Relationship with president clinton. President clinton had been very helpful during teddys and painting 94, both president and mrs. Clinton were very supportive. They campaign for it. They did events for him. President had a different kind of timeclock than teddy. Teddy didnt stay up that late at night and the president would call sometimes at midnight, just sort of want to chat. Senator, the president odds on the phone. Teddy would be soundlessly. But would be sound asleep. He understood it was so helpful with president clinton to be the last person who had a chance to talk to because president clinton was a person who accepted a lot of different points of view as teddy understood it. He wanted to get a chance to have his point of view heard. So during christmas vacation, you will notice, he thought it was helpful to try to get work done during that time and to find time to be able, before going in january because, the genuine term, to go in and kind of laid down a marker if you will, had that conversation with the president. Did there come a time in the winter or in the spring when senator became aware that there was a guy working surreptitiously for president clinton . A lot of people up here in massachusetts know all about named dick morris. And that he had been retained to offer a different perspective. Im sure. We did you become aware . I dont recall, but things like that didnt particularly impact teddy to be quite honest. So president clintons getting advice from a conservative guy. I dont think that, thats not the sort of thing that would keep teddy deeply troubled. He just knew he wanted to get in and get his point of view in. Whether some issues that would come up where you werent sure whether white house was . Im thinking in the spring, theres a moment in the spring, and nick is responsible for my knowing about it. This story didnt unfold with one cataclysmic Government Shutdown in november of that year. It built. It was a drama that build slowly. And in the spring i remember there was some early efforts to gut social programs. Senator kennedy, as nick told to become at im sure he was the agent who arranged this, but the senator went around the senate. Im going to ask you to explain in a second, but he had nick go around the senate and collect 40 plus names on a letter to the president saying vetoed this bill, and we will sustain it. It was the first time it was clear that there was a way to get some control over the floor. A precision bill means you take back previously appropriated funds. And when the republicans came in they had this whole broad program to cut and slashed back across the whole domestic realm of policy come including entitlement programs. They wanted to do something right away. The first thing to try to do a major rescission, pull back for a number of different programs. The senator decided that this was a good place to begin, besides that we need to keep it from happening, this was a good place to lay down a marker and begin to rally the democrats and let the public know what was at stake in this revolution. The public didnt have any sense of what was and wasnt the republicans other than they were for change and the public was sort of a change at the point. Pic education as a key education to rally people around. It was a long sustained work within the caucus to get a unified democratic position. Then when the rescission bill finally passed after making adjustments it was still not, kennedy on the senate floor was able to get a lot of money back for education because he managed to get enough republican support. Bob dole knew he would lose a vote so they compromised. Question was and what the president would do. There been such a strong vote in the house including many democrats. The president was rightly concerned. He didnt want to do be do it and havent overridden. That would be a terrible sign of weakness and at that moment of what the rest of the democrats are going to do. So the senator brown did a enough pledges from democrats to assure the president that if he vetoed the bill over education, the democrats would stick with them and they veto would not be overridden. That was the beginning of the turning of the type also in the continuing struggle for a. The president was in a tough position for any president wants to publish something. I think next point was at least you could demonstrate to him that if you plant the flag, theres enough support so you can prevail. So please plant the flag some more with sort of the way it worked. I dont want to ask you to do too much early, but the minimum wage, kennedy had engineered to previous increases of minimum wage. As david was explaining, they had come to the judgment that a third was called for. In terms of legislation, how did kennedy go about prevailing as a minority on that issue so associated in the public mind with democrats . I think the minimum wage is one of those fairly simple concepts that people get. So its not like a Massive Health reform bill will what they are all putting the American Health system on display. Its increasing the minimum wage for poor workers. Thats it. So that message really gets through to audiences around the country. One thing that we did in increasing the minimum wage, i think it was in 2004, was we were in the states with ballot initiatives. So just to demonstrate to the congress and often in republican dominated states that the minimum wage was popular even in those states, and then bring it back to washington for the vote. I think on the minimum wage also demonstrates senator kennedy was famous for not saying its all or nothing, because then you get nothing. But we are willing to take a half a loaf or a quarter of a loaf. So we never got the wage increase we really wanted. We always had to bargain among the democrats on what the wage level would be for the next increase, but once the bill passed after all of that work, he would want to come back the very next day and introduce the next minimum wage, and he would. It would irritate all the democrats are they wanted time to take a victory lap on this last increase but he would say no, weve got to keep going. You may have heard, by the way, if any of you want to start thinking of really sharp, penetrating questions to shout at us, please do. And a couple of minutes im going to turn to you. Someone will give you a microphone. So please start conspiring now. Trish, off senator hatchs experience in the senate, he must have been able to explain to his colleagues better than most how senator kennedy operated and what it was like to be a conservative republican in the same senate with him. But i was wondering what his perspective was a year or so for they would join in this Historic Alliance on Childrens Health. Theres a famous quote, i think it was dick armey who said this, writing this period, warning his fellow colleagues about having anything to do with this maniac, you know, its always the same. He will make some wild liberal proposal and he will hoodwink some republican into being a cosponsor, and the next thing you know he will you are negotiating from a position of weakness any sort of gets half a loaf and it was back the next day with more. Dont do it. [laughter] first of all, senator kennedy needed no explanation. Republican senators understood senator kennedy. I think the leadership was always worried that he would pick off one of us to do something social agenda program, child care, for example. They had a long history of working together with the ryan white aids bill, the orphan drug act, so i dont think how hed been in the majority and in the minority. So far senator hatch it was not an unusual thing to be back in the majority. Let me see if the key agrees, the key agrees. Senator hatch look at senator kennedy and he saw another senator before he saw a democrat and an enemy state what you have to understand is that senator hatch was elected in 1976 from a very conservative state. One of the reasons he want to come to washington was to fight ted kennedy. He had a liberal agenda that needed to be negated. And when reagan was elected and senator hatch became chairman of the labor committee, he quickly learned that because there were two very liberal republicans senior on the committee, that if senator hatch didnt make a deal with senator kennedy, then they would vote with him and he as chairman would lose in his own committee every time. So that really forged his operating with senator kennedy, arguably, an end to hold senate. [inaudible] we see a conservative republican orrin hatch unlike some of the words that were used in the democratic president ial debate. How does he look [inaudible] he just believed they had a different way of getting to a point. Senator so and so loves our country as much as you do. He just had a different way of getting there. [inaudible] just one little thing they could agree on. [inaudible] when you look at various relationships, not just this one, but down through history, what is the essence of a successful relationship between or among [inaudible] just thinking as drive i was talking that what lbj was able to do with senator dirksen is very similar to what were talking about now. He understood that dirksen was republican, was a conservative but he needed drugs and help break the filibuster on the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He had to believe that dirksen had his own patriotism. He played on that with the dirksen. He goes to them. Personal the everything under the sun. You want public works project, you want a pardon, whatever you want. They can do that. The whole state of illinois was going to be soft in all the largess is going to give you. Find what they called him up in the morning, called him in the middle of the night just like you were talking about president clinton calling teddy at midnight. He said i hope i didnt wake you up. The senator said no, i was just line your opening my present would call. Hoping my present would call. I think thats what you sing with senator kennedy and hatch and some of the other republicans. He understands that dirksen wants to be remembered for having done something important. He may exaggerate a little but he said bring some republicans to break the democratic filibuster. 200 years for School Children will know only two names. Abraham lincoln and everett dirksen. How can dirksen resist . The key thing is what transpired was assigned project understand that they are there and they are used to be a greater sense i think in the Congress Come in the senate and they were passing join legislation, that theyre doing something that they can be proud together children and grandchildren. I was in that congress. I understand sometimes republicans will be proud for defeating something they believe is wrong, but when you can do something and it has improved the lives of children as chip did come how incredible that feels when you look out and you know its made a difference. Im sure thats not whats happening now but it requires seeing the people across the aisle as fellow colleagues rather than as partisan enemies, just as vicki said. Everything about our media today encourages them to become enemies. The Cable Networks that only have one site on. The fact the debates, they like it most when using somebody. The special interests are required when you need to raise money to run for election are often the more extremist so the moderate compromise should get cut out of the process. The process itself is making it less likely to have this extraordinary moment we are talking about in 1994 and in the 60s as well. Which leads me to my last sorry. Senator kennedy was a master of, not only, god bless went on an issue but finding Common Ground personally. And getting to know them personally. An example that always blows peoples minds is on disability where congressman Pete Sessions can want a most conservative members of Congress Even to this day has a child with down syndrome. So they worked together on legislation that enabled Health Coverage for families with disabled children. Thats probably the only issue they couldve found Common Ground on, but he found that personal connection with congressman sessions and it resulted in a good law. Which leads me to my last question before i go up there for questions that i assume are ready to be fired. Trish, its simply this. How did nick and kennedy get together with senator hatch and you could do the Childrens Health Insurance Program . How does Something Like this happen, from your perspective . One think we havent talked too much about today is the level of friendship between the two senators, also their staff. So today nick and danny, michael, david, brian, we are all still friends. We remain friends and we know each other and we know how to play each other and not play each other. What we care about, what we dont care about. So thats an important part of the discussion. To be fair, when senator kennedy as well explained in the book approached a number of republicans, and he approached senator hatch, and we were a bit worried in the hatch world that he might be led into territory he shouldnt go into, but thats very diplomatic. Theres a passage in the book about, i remember so well when we raised these concerns with senator hatch. And to be fair, bruce was a on the one the staff who was gung ho about doing this bill with senator kennedy a senator hatch turned to us and he said, you dont know what its like to grow up a poor child. Find a way to do this right but i want to do this. Spirit so its personal first. At that we insisted on making it a block grant, a limited program so we could argue that it wasnt an entitlement, and all those things the book explains so well about the letters back and forth, nick singing to senator hatch all of that soot flowed from that friendship. By the way, she is neglecting one very important part of the historical narrative, and that was nicks approach to trish. And he used annie get your gun, he actually did the following spring twice i have to be embarrassed they note that girl that i marry will have to be a note of soft and as pink as a nursery the girl i call my own will where satin and lace is an smell of cologne [applause] doors, thats the kind of history a dummy like me can understand. Now we need questions. So there are microphones all over up there. Ask. If not, i will at the big shots down here. Yo, right there. Tried to have one person answer your question so we have time for as many questions as possible. Those of you who have seen the book the most important point the book makes that would help washington work better today. Can i direct that at trish . Because, because shes part of the power structure now in her own way. She has her own company but lets let you tackle that one. Could i first say one think what i learned this from the president ial debates that youre supposed to talk about whatever you want . Thats right. [laughter] thank you spent imagine if kennedy and hatch had thought like that. Thank you for the song. Nick, you did it so much better. Bruce is fond of saying that when nick saying senator hatchs son, which resulted in 24 million for children health, the outgrowth the stones in world history. I think the big lesson is, im kind of dated about the Current Congress because i thin think hm indoors conduct but this much, much more elegantly, but the 24 hours news cycle, the partisan cable shows, the tea party, armchair legislators, there was something to be said about the voters not knowing how sausage is made. Theres reportedly 50 members of congress in the house who live in their offices. So they dont build the friendships that senator hatch in senator kennedy had. Their staffs dont build the friendships that we all had. They are there fo for a very different reason they are there for change. Change is good but with all these, the house is turning over much more prickly, the senate is. With everyone trying change, theres not a focused agenda that senator kennedy was famous for. And so successful for. Senator hatch, too. Spent yes. But we are talking about kennedy. More, more, more. I cant see so good, im getting old. Left hand side. In the back row. The phrase we used to have is a well oiled kennedy machine. [inaudible] i cant help but believe he would be in favor of the family leave act. I try to wonder, how does the approach sounded like paul ryan . [inaudible] how would you approach someone like i said is not some really part of congress . As we describe in the book theres a little bit of a formula. First you manage the substance and then you take on the politics and then theres the Public Relations side. The politics has both an inside game which involves getting your colleagues energize and reaching across the aisle and begin to find republican partner is sort of the first part. Second part is mobilizing to Interest Groups they care about it both because they are a way of communicating with the public because other members of congress listened to the. The third one is Public Relations. Theres so much competing for attention in washington and so many counter pressures. You need a sense of the surreal public outcry. On this one i think he would go over and as Many Republican senators as he thought who might have an issue in the issue, see if theres a way to find a Common Ground, some kind of compromise that they could agree on that would move the issue forward. If they couldnt do that he would pursue it as a Democratic Initiative as he did with the minimum wage. He would try and do it in reach out to the public, unify his colleagues to get the minority leader to make a one of the top bills going into the conference. He would reach out to the president , asking to talk about. Every piece, right legislation speak with forced votes and those votes would be very uncomfortable. A followup is, is the problem that there is no senator kennedy or that its hard for somebody like senator hatch to be senator hatch of the mid 1990s . Hard for anyone to be the leader that they were i think in the mid 1990s with this congress but another thing happening is that more than half of the senators came from the house. So theres more deliberative body with his check and balance on the more populist house is changing somewhat. They want to change the rules so they can be more reactive. I think that makes it harder to get things done. Gotcha. More. Yes, please. Part of the difficulty date is when you look at who was in the house and senate in the 60s, 70s, 80s, perhaps many of them had been in war together. They have been in world war ii. They had been in the korean war. They knew what is like to have a Common Mission that you worked across party, class, lunch. It was a huge percentage of the congress and senate. Now its 1 in the congress because we no longer have the draft, because the military has a different status in our society come as odd as it is in its own right. I think that experience of having worked together and learning how to go across party lines and loathing how to care about the end result is less likely to the in the people that are being elected right now to congress. Vicki, before i call on the person in the rear better, i can almost hear senator kennedy pointing his finger, you are all negative, you are all down in the dumps, you sourpusses. Theres going to be a meeting at my house in three days and were going to have an agenda by monday, et cetera, and all of a sudden senator hatch is writing songs again and nick is singing them. He would be a little bit upset at the gloom, wouldnt he . I had such a hard time saying he tended not to like gloom. [inaudible] he would have been looking for a person who had a Family Member who unpaid Family Impact of them. Someones daughter or daughter will have a problem, caring for a Family Member and was making, unable to do that. He would be looking for some touchdown that he could find that he could connect with that person. And then he would try to bring them into the fold. Thats the sort of thing they would always be looking for. But it goes back to the answer that trish gave earlier to the question, which is to take what from the book. You have to talk to each other. You have to know each other. You have to be with each other. I think what we should be most concerned about is people dont know each other. They are not spending that time with each other. They are not doing that facetoface meeting, knowing each other, understanding whats happening in each others lives. You dont ever find that Common Ground. Just to follow up on what you are saying. One of the more important resource i think in a democratic system is empathy, the ability to see what other people are thinking and feeling, understand their point of view. And without that this is not a difficult time and i think thats what we have to figure out is how do we end this crazy world where people are so fragmented in terms of their attention and not spending time with one another one on one. Its a bigger problem than the congress but its the country the way we live now. How do we make sure the things that provide the most emotional substance which are human connections are continue. I think thats what we are arguing for. I find it hard to imagine senator kennedy accepting that just because paul ryan gets on a plane and goes back to janesville, wisconsin, every friday but thats an obstacle. I dont know, senator kennedy was in janesville, wisconsin, a few times himself from 1960 forward. I just imagine him going there if thats what it takes. The thing i hate about this dude is they always make me be the evil person who stops it. And so this is going to be our last question, but when we are done discussing it i have a treat for you as well as a request of you. Trish, another former hatch staffer, i was able to visit with nick yesterday and as is typical, nick gave me an assignment. National he communicates with his drumstick in the alphabet and he spells out we Chapter Seven. I got the book and i studied last night and nick tells you to read something to do. Its also typical activities are controlling the paper. Theyre telling the hatch people what they have to do and if they have the paper. Dutifully i read Chapter Seven which is entitled orrin hatch. Weve heard a lot about that today, so im going to kill you and i will give david fair warning. Theres a former kennedy staffer named jim who would bring a purple crown royal satchel to the Judiciary Committee and in the satchel he would have a softball which he thought the senators which was to be sickened across the table they t would roll the softball and to be rolling this softball. So david, im going to give it a softball. I hope you dont perceive it to be a curveball. I have not read the whole book but i feel like the way it has really shown that theres a lot of hard work ahead of, know your stuff, the toppings were important, valuable. There was, so mentioned there was a nobility about trying to make these tough tradeoffs that society has to face. In doing all that there was a certain amount of joy, so there was style and nick and senator kennedy really brought that together. And so, one thing im enjoying about the book, senator leahy has a saying that a senator is nothing more than the competition impediment to staff. [laughter] i think its showing sort of a byplay of what the limits of the staff can do and what they elected member does. I know senator kirk has played both roles but i suspect it was probably somewhat different when youre the person voting and we are all mindful of the. The last thing im going to say that, now using the kennedy paper, i did my assignment. I will just ask david if he would object if anybody ever would use this book as part of a lack of documentation is somewhat ever thought could nominate senator hatch to the jfk profile kennedy award, would it be possible to use the book in favor of senator hatch . [applause] stay tuned, powell. Doors, id like to throw the spirit of that question to you a second. It seems to me that until the 20th century we didnt really pay much attention to it, to advisors or people who are called aids. The words really fail to describe Something Like Nick Littlefield and edward kennedy. But do you have a sense, first of all, of the modern relationship of whats called staff and whats called principles . Can you put nick in a Historical Context while hes watching . No, i think the wonderful thing about a career that nick had innocent as in the david had, both of them could have gone into private life and made a hell of a lot more money, and they committed themselves to a position without the same benefits that you get from being the actual politician. You are behind the scenes but you know that everyday when you go in there and you feel that interpol, you love what youre doing. Waking up in the morning, couldnt wait to get the with your colleagues. You are working in a collaborative way on things that are really important. And with people make that choice in their careers, it should be honored here you could argue that in some ways in the 19th century when it just one person on the step they have to do with each other more. That the stats are so huge. I heard one out and say he walks down the hall and he doesnt know who the other congressman is. Thats just part of modern life. I think the choice, a career choice that people make to spend a decade or more as nick did and as you did in that place knowing that your making things happen, working together with a person that you felt loyal to with other people that you got to know, it does so to be honored at a think we honor that tonig tonight. Just as a matter of arithmetic you could also make the point that the three people here on the panel, other than you and vicki and me, have had an impact on more american lives than most of the president s from the 19th century did. [applause] now, now you get a treat and a challenge. I wouldnt dream of clothing a program on one of the people i admire almost more than any other person in the world dream of closing i will turn to one person who has kindly consented to perform that task after which we will be done, but she does have something she wants to ask of you. So vicki, its all yours. Before i do close the program i want to start off by thank you all for being here and invited to a reception after the event closes comin, it is said that te will be a book signing, and next to the place with books will decide it would be a chance for each of you if you wish to Say Something. There will be someone coming and youll be able to give a personal message to nick that he will be able to watch and keep if youd like to Say Something personal to him come and help you always will. Now, nick, this is for you. You are an extraordinary, special branch. But that kind of friend you were to teddy is, well, to use than once were,. [inaudible] when the two of you got together, i look at that nearly decade you worked together and something unbelievable happened. The history books will be written and we will all get to see it in black and white, but something remarkable happened to benefit the american people. It was i think the combination of your boundless optimism, your brilliance, your keen sense of strategy, your willingness to let teddy teacher and challenge of and something happened when the two of you work together. That is like no other period. I have my glasses because i want to read just a little of the acts that were passed during that period of time. Health insurance affordability and accountability act. Hatch kennedy Childrens Health insurance act. National institutes of Health Revitalization act work agency for Health Care Policy and Research Reauthorization act. Food and Drug Administration modernization act. Prescription drug user fee act. Comprehensive medical device improvement act. Ryan white aides care act. Higher education and student loan reform act 1992. Elementary and secondary reauthorization act. Fair labor standards act amendment increasing the minimum wage in 89 and 96. Child care block grant, and medical leave act, americans with disability act. This is a republican and democratic president s, republican and democratic senate. Its incredible what you and teddy put together. Nick, we owe you a debt of gratitude. You are a remarkable man, and this place, this edward m. Canada institute for the pending senate would not be the place that it is without you. As a board member and as a friend, i remember you and ginny, katie and i sitting in a cafe in boston and we were going to join with us is going to look like with salt and pepper shakers. Forks and knives. Ted just met with the architect talking about with this institute would look like in comparison to the jfk library. You with your from the beginning. Teddy shared with you his vision for this place to be, and she never looked back, helping from the very beginning, running with this idea. You were doing your enthusiasm and optimism, helping to raise funds. You figured why ask for millions . Ask for five commend you would get a. It was incredible. You have been remarkable. We would not have this institution without you, nick. I love you madly. I thank you. We all owe you for everything that you have done. This book is a triumph. Its a glimpse of history. Yet shown what no one has ever shown. God bless you. What the sin is when the senate is at its best. Its a true gift to all of us, a gift for history but we all want to show you right now how much we love you. [applause] [applause] [applause] thank you very, very much. Thank you. Thanks again. That was wonderful. With itunes and on the weekends can usually get his authors sharing their new releases. Watching the nonfiction authors on booktv does the best television for serious readers. They can have a longer conversation and dealt into their subject. Ott weekends. They bring you author after author after author. I love booktv and im a cspan fan. Heres a look at some books