What is happening a and either be who you say are will not give money to you. There is a reason the university saw advertised as such because nobody supports that except the liberal left. So if people inform themselves that is the only way to stem the crime. I wrote the book and about four months it was meet in a room. And for it to be so tightly i thought i had to move quickly so we could start engaging in the culture because i think people dont realize what is building on and people would be surprised and shocked. Host how did you get the idea . Did somebody approach you . I got the idea from my columns that i write and i wrote to gregory about the topic and i realized i could write about this every single people and i start to realize that there is something going on. But people said i should write Deborah Pryce said there is nothing never one to because i care so much so i to meet it was something that was personal and importuned to. That is evident in debris to read. Thank you so much. I enjoyed talking to you. Thank you. S. A. Body of research which was flood of insight to bring it to its intended customers that is the criminalJustice System. So the studies that are conducted for the threeyear for decades they did that make the impact that they should choose a crackdown, and to translate into language with of policy makers. Host what is legal psychology . Is the branch and this is where the phenomenon that take place in the natural world. With a criminal Justice System full of psychological influence. Fee income of though witnesses testimony and how to ask the pressure in orissa but think of the jurors at the end of the day. But with said numerous juncture actually makes decisions and judgments and traces these are really psychological activities. Host to be lous accuracy along the way . Yes. That is the other motivating factor behind this book there is a good reason to believe the criminalJustice System does not offer it as accurately as it should brazzaville believe it to. There are many moving parts the recent fall short but the primary one is the evidence that we use the stuff of which the entire process is not as accurate as it should be and we dont always know that that then known accuracy is a serious problem is used to be speculative bin conjecture but as time goes by we just discovered more and more mistakes and we scratch our heads to say how did this happen . The inserted is that we produced evidence that was not accurate enough. To my mind most of the action lies in in the investigation and the way the evidence was produced it will affect many decisions such as the prosecutors and judges and juries. Some people believe that jury system but i dont think it has much to do with it. I think has to do with the human beings to make decisions to the best of their ability based on the evidence given. A and if that evidence is incorrect whether judge george jury. Host day you have for real life example . Guest probably there are numerous the book does have examples to demonstrate it is not per se a book about the state cases more of the research that helps us to or understand the origins of the mistakes to give recommendations to fix the system but i do have some cases to illustrate the points there is a welldocumented case of a gentleman by the name of ronald cotton and sentenced to life in prison with a burglary and Sexual Assault and they have paired up in their use the those that spoke candidly about her experiences with the horrible Sexual Assaults and a star witness who was heralded by a the prosecutor has the best witness he ever put on the stand only to reveal all he was not perpetrated in somebody else was and her story is the account of the detective who also opened up a and explained although extremely well intended who actually kept the evidence because he always had a nagging suspicion. So how really good people who are honest would fall victim and witness how they and others it turns out with the mistakes at the end of the day with the extremely powerful prosecution with both the jury is the trials in the Appellate Courts no problem to convict or uphold that conviction but it was all based on the initial error february a big edifice of evidence that was not correct. Host and so have you prevent that initially . Guest initially first we must make of brief distinction between the two types of errors. Son you can call spontaneous way makes them quite routinely we forget of days or a name we show up at the wrong time. These are things that happen that is par for the course. These are usually not to blame where they dont drive the convictions. The one said drive convictions were often is there was something about the investigative of procedure or of the bill procedure that exacerbated the mistake. Something the way we investigate crimes that is not always up double because were in those that go back in time for truth does not build on science mostly thanks to legal psychologist and we know what the best practices are. Keep in mind we have 18,000 apartments with 13,000 conduct criminal investigation and there is no normal way to follow these recommendations and it isnt necessarily the right decision and so a the bottom line is the most investigations are not conducted according to best practices. A and the answer is covered to prevent them . To eliminate mistakes that we caused by investigating a crime which is ironic that the investigation which is supposed to collect information to draw conclusions but because it is interactive rand every interview is back and forth in every interrogation there are a lot of forces and information flowing back and forth these procedures actually contribute to the error. So adopting best practices and by keeping investigations we are in a much better position to produce better evidence to look back at these investigations to get a better sense of where did this fact come from . When the witness testified she saw that getaway car was that really her memory of our she got from somebody else or maybe she picked it up with the interview unwittingly a of a detective fast the question so it is important to have that transparency to assess the quality and integrity of the evidence. Host of those 18,000 Police Departments how many are using your vested . Unfortunately way too few. The criminaljustice process in general tends to be polarized with that perception of us verses them and people who are pro conviction or pro defendant. Because a legal psychologist dont want to be associated to much as a pro defendant that may have been true in the beginning as they try to break through to make a statement that today much is driven by the good sense of accuracy that lets just figure out the way to get results and if this is the best practice like if you take the interrogation to show there was no coercion and miranda warnings were given appropriately, you have just taken away some frivolous defense arguments. To my mind that is the great thing. I dont think the swearing contest when the Police Detectives where is one way the sweat the suspect swears the other, it is the unintelligent is and not the way to get to the issues in this day and age we can just see exactly use said what to prove. Host arent set. Unfortunately not but but finally after chevron this pressure has changed its position. They were reluctant seller to prevent and then none of those issues by the fbi. That may have health water ted years ago but now local lawenforcement rather going through this state courts or the legislatures with the interrogation and it is the interesting moment where you have an agency that stiffen their backs in refuse and then to say this is great one official said this is the best they ever rammed down our throats because it is accuracy nondefense. If you interrogate correctly in an unfair to issue legal warnings you just made your prosecution so much more successful. Comment that is the very odd place where but with body carries their interest in development. For the most part they are going to affect the patrol more than the investigative operation. But having said that cover the Immediate Impact is the encounters between the patrol officers and citizens in the streets. Nothing is a Silver Bullet but i do think they are of very good thing for cry think it will increase accountability will on behalf of police officers. There have been and the of that city spare iraq but i think there is every reason to believe that it is a good thing and i hope and seven time when teethirty is a mature and integral part but to take over the mundane stuff but the point in that investigation we dont do that so my guess is to tape more investigations overtime sauternes crop increasing transparency it helps accountability within the department with the police chief with trust to commend there working and. Host explain really one of the baroque bewildering features the criminaljustice process is the low value it assigns to the accuracy of the factual determination. Guest yes. Ended it is treated as a bit of day shoji deployed only in extreme cases the authorities do their own thing and for us to find justice as a violation of u. S. Constitution is the breach and it has to be caused by misconduct the Supreme Court places on misconduct to show that they were corrupt that is with of bill of rights with the overturned conviction but most mistakes do not entail misconduct and while some do, many dont. The accuracy is lost in the shuffle with many rules of procedures to prevent the conflict said inmates from getting relief from the federal system. With those Legal Resources available and is so much so of that the justices of the Supreme Court from 1993 actually a asked rhetorically to leave the question open whether executing the inmate who has a of incredible argument of innocence is of violation of the west constitution that is the astounding proposition if someone was given the full panoply of rights with the trial and conviction by a jury and subsequently if they dont have a cause to overturn that aside from innocence that we might let them be executed it is preposterous to show how much as that accuracy does not ring as it should read. Host whom is the book written . To run multiple audiences. And decided the in the language that is not jargon specific and to the Police Chiefs but for the most part cruz not Mattoon Spitzer and klay. Serve a the for this ended law