Finally, if youd also help us by filling out a survey form after the program before you leave, that helps us in evaluating the programs that we provide. Charles rappleyes interests are wideranging. Hes written about the media, law enforcement, organized crime, slavery and the American Revolution as well as the wellreceived biography of robert morris, financier of the American Revolution. A native of cambridge, massachusetts, he attended the university of wisconsin where he majored in economics. One of the strengths of rappleyes study of the hoover presidency is to explain in simple language the complicated Economic Issues that brought about and sustained the Great Depression. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome charles rappleye. [applause] hi there, and thanks for coming out today. Its a little, its a little awkward for me to come to the hoover institution, the hoover president ial library and talk to people about hoover, Herbert Hoover, about what i know about Herbert Hoover, because i feel like a number of you will know more about hoover today than i would know in another five years of research. I feel like this is the place of some officionados and some experts, and i appreciate your listening to what i might have to add. What im going to do is not so much talk about what well, what i feel like i can add is what i found that truck me about hoover struck me about hoover. I knew something about hoover when i started, but not a whole lot. I feel like im sort of every man that way. So the things that i ran across that really struck me and surprised me i thought would be of general interest to you people. I also want to thank tom schwartz for the invitation to speak here and particularly matt schafer and Spencer Howard who were the researchers who worked with me hand in glove for a couple of years on constantly, my constantly calling on them for new information, to look up a document that i had missed, to assist me on finding, on locating material. Theyre very good at what they do, and i appreciate how helpful they were to me. Ill start with an anecdote. Hoover the thing that, the first thing that really struck me about hoover in and which i found so compelling and revealed him in a real human dimension was his constant conflict. He was never very settled on what he was doing or how he was doing it. He was full of second guesses about himself, about his strategies. He was of a divided mind, and that was before the presidency. Its very much part of his character. And then during the presidency, it continued to sort of plague him. It couldnt have been very easy. And heres a story that i thought sort of brought some of that out. On a saturday afternoon in may, and this would be in 1931 when the depression had really set in and hoover was under a lot of pressure, president hoover spent a rare free hour chatting with the journalist h. V. Caltenborn. It was more a conversation than an interview, and hoover was feeling free and glib, but he was president after all, and before it was over the discussion turned to the upcoming election. Caltenborn asked hoover if he were worried about campaign prospects. No, not at all, the president quickly replied. It was obviously too flip a response considering the state of the economy and the popularity of Franklin Roosevelt. Im sorry, this is early 32. So he knew that roosevelt was up, he was up against roosevelt. After applause, hoover decided to explain himself. Quote the reason im not worried is because i dont give a damn whether i am reelected or not. Here was hoovers old ambivalence about politics, braced now by three trying years in the white house. It was a candid remark but not exactly true, and it carried the potential for real political damage. Caltenborn ended his visit soon after hoovers statement. A few minutes later hoover called in his press secretary ted jocelyn and queried vaguely as to what he might know about caltenborn. Jocelyn said he knew him from a few years back as a correspondent for the brooklyn daily eagle. Hoover then asked if he understood the Current White House rules for reporters, that all talks with the president are confidential . Jocelyn said he couldnt say for sure. Then run him down, hoover barked. I said something that would cause a world sensation if repeated publicly. Jocelyn jumped up, he caught up with caltenborn just as he was leaving the white house, and the story was successfully squelched. It was a typical case of hoover second guessing himself and a nice demonstration of hoovers divided mind. But for jocelyn it was something more, the illconceal toed yen to return to office. The president may say he doesnt give a damn about reelection, jocelyn commented in miss diary, but he want in his diary, but he wants it more than anything else. And part of this, what i like about in this is, this anecdote is that hoover is of two minds, and its not clear that he knows which side hes on. Hes these conflicts are internal, and they beguile hoover as well as everybody around him. But hoover could also show in his duality some real determination, some real sense of what he wanted and where he was going. And an example of that to me, the telling one is when he first learned that Calvin Coolidge was not going to run for reelection. Hoover then was serving in coolidges cabinet and was a likely and oddson favorite to succeed coolidge if coolidge were to step aside. But when this happened, hoover hat no warn had no warning of it, no one had warning of it, and thats how Calvin Coolidge did things. He would surprise people. And be on this occasion, he called reporters to his vacation, where he was his vacation spot in the midwest where he was taking some time out from the white house, and coolidge said i do not choose to run for my reelection. And at the time, that was a big mystery. What did coolidge really meansome mean . Did he mean simply that he wasnt going to run, which is what it turned out to be. But he wasnt straight forward, he didnt explain it, and people were wondering. It was announced by telegram, it was followed hoover was up at Bohemian Grove, a place that then and now is sort of a retreat for the elite and a place where they can let their hair down. Hoover loved that place. When the word came in that coolidge had made this announcement, there were hundreds of telegrams to the front office at Bohemian Grove asking what hoover had to say. A crowd of men made their way to hoovers home and cabin to learn what he had to say. The ap cable was followed by hundreds more, so many the switchboard operator at the grove had to send out for help. Most called for hoover to announce his candidacy for the nations top office, but hoover responded with caution. I regret the suggestion that the president might stand down, hoover said in a statement for reporters. In case the implication was unclear, hoover added president coolidge should be renominated and reelected. That same day hoover sent out a telegram of his own, this one a privacy communication, instructing a cohort of friends and political backers in new york to sit tight. There might be a campaign, but to say any more right now would appear unseemly. There should be no demonstration of any kind until coolidge had clarified his cryptic utterance. This was for show. Hoover wanted to conceal his ambition from the public, but also from president coolidge whose real motives remained obscure. And i should add also from lou hoover, his wife, who was not a big fan of herbert jumping into the public arena and for months leading up to his decision to enter the race, hoover kept his conversation about politics secret there lou. He would tell his friends, not now. Wait until were alone. That same night after hoover had told his people to sit tight, he made a hasty exit from his summer retreat to conduct a secret midnight meeting with ralph arnold, hoovers principal booster in california. They met at the train depot in santa rosa, the town closest to bohemian drove, and then quickly retired to a booth in the nearby tavern that offered more privacy. Arnold was stanford friend and a fellow geologist and had taken the train knot on short north on short notice to seek permission to put hoovers network of home state political backers into motion. That night, hoover gave arnold his blessing, Herbert Hoovers campaign for the presidency got underway that night. And as if to confirm the decision, the next day hoover ordered his personal secretary to distribute to his intimates around the country a secret code, a cipher that would be employed for political communications. So once again you have hoover telling some people one thing, some people another and kind of hemming bets with himself hedging bets with himself. He wasnt sure yet that he was in the race. But hes getting things into motion x. To some degree, thats typical political, you know, youve got to be careful what you say publicly, and you have another agenda privately. But you get the sense with hoover that this really, he had trouble settling it in his own mind before he gets into these larger scenes of action. And what i found too was that having made it to the white house, this sense of internal conflict continued to bedevil hoover, and it was not just, it was not just internal. In other words, people could see it. And they were surprised at this. Hoover before the war had always been a super or executive and super executive and a man of quick decision and firm conviction. And that once he was in the white house, that seemed to dissipate. And it was confusing to the elect9 rate, it was confusing to the people around him. Now another short passage. Quoting a guy named Clarence Dill who was a colleague of hoovers, he was a member of congress when hoover was secretary of commerce. And they had worked together on a number of things. Clarence dill noted hoovers transformation from effective cabinet officer to the guarded and cautious president. And, again, this is early in his term. This was soon after becoming president this change came over him. Dill was a congressman from washington state, a democrat hoover being a republican. So not of the same party, but not especially partisan, who sat first in the house and then in the senate, Clarence Dill. He worked with hoover crafting Regulatory Framework for the new medium of radio and found the commerce secretary to be flexible and constructive. Quote, he was one of the most affable, agreeable and helpful men in the cabinet, dill said, during a 1967 oral history interview. So hes looking back. But manager had changed but something had changed upon hoovers election. Quote it seemed to me that he had lost his political charm, if i might call it that, dill said. He no longer had that friendly, affable attitude when he became president. He was distant. He had a high respect for the office. And this is what dill attributed this to. In dills view, hoovers reserve became distinctly more pronounced after his election. It was the same transformation that the journalist Thomas Stokes had noticed during the campaign when he remarked on hoovers formality and how the easy is secretary of congress now appeared timid. Dill, in his recollection, said he made two early trips to the hoover white house to discuss legislation and was surprised on both occasions to find that the president whom he formerly considered a friend wouldnt even look at him. Hed look at ceiling, or hed look at the floor, or hed look out the window while i was trying to talk to him. Dill found the visit is so disturbing that he avoided any further encounters with the president. He never lost his respect for hoover, however. And to the end, considered him a great character, one of the stands hed met in the course standouts hed met in the course of his own public career. But the presidency, dill said, smother ored hoovers better qualities. Quote i think the office of president impressed him so much that he lost much of his effective personality in trying to respect office. I always felt that mr. Hoover was so impressed with the office that he couldnt be the free, open man that he was. And this ambivalence and this sort of hesitation in the face of conflict, and you think back to hoovers years at commerce, conflict he thrived on it. But somehow once he took the central position of president , hesitation became his mode. And again, this is all early in the game. And it took a real toll on hoover. He was elected by a landslide ask was very popular and was very popular across the country. Within a year, and this is the the october, the crash hoover takes office in march. The crash hits toward the end of october. But the stock market crash, people didnt immediately recognize, oh, here comes the beginning of the Great Depression. That took months to sink in or even years to recognize quite how deep the trough was that they were heading into. So that even before in this happens, hoover, his Political Capital is all gone. Hes a, hes a hobbled president even on the onset of the depression. So its to keep in mind as this story progresses that as i utilized the a device in telling this book, i divided it into three parts, and the first is called the rise and fall of Herbert Hoover. So im dating his fall to 1930. This was before the depression was his burden to bear. And the point is that he was not be well suited not well suited to be president. Im not the only person to run across that. Ill quote from Walter Litman who was one of the great pundits of the time, and this was his analysis of what had happened. This, again, in early 1930. Lippman writes, my own notion is that a close examination of mr. Hoovers conduct in the critical matters will disclose a strange weakness which renders him indecisive at the point where the battle can be won or lost. And this is the title of the famous essay called the peculiar weakness of mr. Hoover. This weakness appears at the point where in order to win he would have to intervene in the hurley burly of conflicting wills which are the living tissue of popular government. End quote. The pattern was there for all to see when lines were drawn and the contenders looked for conviction, hoover tended to fade away, his voice mute and his purpose obscure. Knowing hoover was new to elected office, lippman laid the president s failings to the vagary of democratic process. Quote, he is baffled and worried. His action paralyzed by his own inexperience in the very special business of democracy. Some might see hoovers term im sorry, some might see hoovers remote bearing as arrogance, but lippman felt otherwise. Again, the source was in the system. Hoover prized certainty, lippman wrote, and was excessively diffident in the presence of the normal irrationality of democracy. Hoover was quickly emerging as a caution to those who saw the dry logic of the engineer as an antidote to the practice of politics. Lippman again, quote in the realm of reason, he is an unusually bold man. In the realm of unreason, he is, for a statesman, exceptionally thinskinned and an easilybewildered man. So this is hoover on the eventual of the depression on the verge of the depression occupying an office that he didnt quite fit, trying to lead a people that was not hearing him, and then the depression sets in. And this, i felt, was what im talking about next, hoovers frustrations in the white house. I think they Say Something about hoover. Hes generally understood to be a pacific sort of composed, very dignified fellow, and dignity was very big in his mind, and dignity was a big part of his conception of the presidency. To when it started to turn against him, he felt really bamboozled, frustrated and angry. But i think it also says a lot about being president , what a Pressure Cooker that place is when things start to go wrong. And here are a couple of quick anecdotes about hoover feeling the heat. The first one involves this was, again, ted jocelyn, his press is secretary and a big supporter of hoovers. He wrote a book afterward trying to sort of salvage hoovers reputation at the time, but politically that was not going to happen. Now, this is 1931, and the depression is really starting to grip the country. As the frustrations mounted and the long days piled in one after another, hoover started to show the strain. Quote the president is dog tired, jocelyn noted in july. How he stands up under the pressure is a mystery to me. Seeking somehow to ease hoovers burden, jocelyn played a wildcard. He contacted byron price, a wellliked Washington Bureau chief for the associated press. The president needed someone to alter his outlook. Quote he is in a state x maybe a talk with you will do him good, jocelyn told byron price. Its not an interview, he told price. Just a talk. Price was intrigued, and upon being ushered into hoovers office, he was astonished. He didnt look to me like the hoover id been seeing, price recalled later. His hair was rumpled, he was almost crouching behind his desk, and he burst out at me with a volley of angry words. Not against me or the press, but against the politicians and the foreign governments with absolutely unbridled language. You start to wonder what that actually means. Some people talked about hoover being able to swear with the best of them in the mining camps of the australian outback, and you can imagine thats some pretty heavy language in those days. But you never got any closer than, boy, hoover was using some colorful language that day. So well just have to fill in with our imagination. In the midst of these tense and interminable negotiations, hoover was boiling over. Price made careful notes of the encounter and provides a verbatim quote from the embattled president. And now i am asked to take the blame, hoover fumed. Is it my fault that those selfish men the whole world over have refused to see the folly of their policies until it was too late . Is it my fault that france, our ally, has stood blindly in the way of settlement and cooperation . Hoover was mad at france, but his anger encompassed the whole Economic Disaster that had so compromised his term in office. And i should say that this was in international this was in negotiations other international departments, and france had thrown a wrench in the would bees. In the works. But his anger encompassed the whole Economic Disaster that had so compromised his term in office. Quote over a period of years as president and in the cabinet, i have done all i could to avert the terrible situation we are many today, but it was not enough, hoover complained to price. The original sin was committed at versailles, hoover said, and the follies aggravated by stupidity and stubbornness. So i guess ill continue this a little further just to give you the sense where things are at. Whatever ted jocelyn was thinking when he arranged the encounter, it appeared to have worked. Price kept his confidence, and hoover invited him back repeatedly, always off the record and always to vent his anger. But of all hoovers dark days, the summer of 1931 may have been the most frustrating and the most emotional. It was only then that hoover realized however far he might reach, however hard he might push, the Global Economic collapse that began 20 months before was not going to turn or come around like the depressions of the past. He recognized now, as John Maynard Keynes had written a few months before, quote we are living in this year in the shadow of one of the greatest economic catastrophes of modern history. So heres hoover confronted with all of this, realizing that things are slipping away from him not just policy wise, but his standing with the american people. And so he goes a little bit out of character. For one thing, he always took his own counsel. But in this case he brought somebody in as a special adviser. That person was James Mcclafferty who after one term in congress had left the government and worked briefly well, had left elected officer and worked briefly under hoover at commerce. He then went back to the west coast, was involved in shipping. And when hoover was elected president , mclafferty made a point of traveling to washington to celebrate the inauguration, and then in his own sort of way, when the white house was opened for guests after the inauguration, after the ceremony and mclafferty was in the white house and made sure that he was by the front door so that when hoover returned from his inaugural and entered the white house, the first face that he saw there was jim mclafferty. Mclafferty shook his hand, told him how proud he was of hoover. And then he went on his way. But a year later seeing that hoover was in so much political trouble, mclafferty went to the white house and offered his is services as an adviser. At hoovers request now reading a passage here at hoovers request mclafferty returned to the white house the following week and thus began a continuing subrow saw collaboration sub rosa collaboration are. The two meting regularly, mclafferty slipping in and out of the white house early in the morning or late in the day without the knowledge of the press or even most of the white house staff. Between visits mclafferty haunted the cafeterias and the lobbies of congress, counting the policies of the administration and sounding out the sentiments and loyalties of his former colleagues in the legislature. Then he would go back to hoover and report on what hed learned, serving the president as a conduit, fixer and sometimes simply as a sounding board. Sim board. You have the class ready, former congressman hanging around washington talking to hoover about what is going on politically. Must be people like that in washington today. It is all very secret and intriguing. Of all the issues in summer of 1930, the question of veterans benefits, they had just pushed through a bill extending disability pensions for veterans of the spanishamerican war, whether or not the disability was related to military service. They were expanding the idea of the compensation that goes to veterans, the way veterans are honored. There was a time when you fought in the war, your conviction and consequences unless you are disabled and the government helps. That began to change but change came around now, it held a price tag of 11 million, hoover vetoed the bill on may 28th, a presidency hardly slowed the movement of congress, four days later, both houses voted to override, in june, the new coverage and benefits to the millions more veterans from world war i. It was a signal moment, hoovers priorities tended to get lost, the hard logic of the Balance Sheet clarified things. When it came to Government Spending hoover shed his timidity, in his mind limiting the matter of protecting the american people. Hoover muddled through the first year in office, failing to define himself the congress or the public he found his mission. Look lafferty was proud to see the president in such a combative mood. He saw problems to the leadership. He wanted to hit harder to drive his enemies. Watching hoover vend on stage, watching hoover vend his outrage over the pension bill, mclafferty egg him on. Through fear of constituent backlash the fear was to make them fear hoover anymore. Let them all know that they are not for you, you are not for them, mclafferty told hoover. Make them fear you. The guy for whom cooperation was a byword government would not be coercive. And seeking better interest to move things forward, driving his enemies through fear was out of character but fit the Pressure Cooker that he was in and hoover adopted this as a strategy. Mclafferty in 1931 when democrats floated a more expensive version of the veterans bonus, this book before the veterans bonus showdown in washington, hoover ruled his people would make no effort to improve the bill. Hoovers decision was to let it be as bad as possible, better to assert plans of veto. A cynical strategy to he was very tense, mclafferty observed in his diary, cutting his words short and his voice never allowed his low. I dont want to compromise. I want the bill to go to the limits to arouse the country to pass over a veto. Mclafferty saw political matters in blackandwhite, encourage the president s intransigence and kick them in the face, mclafferty told the president. Dont show any mercy. If you do it will be heralded as week on your part. Your enemies wont have it any other way to say you are weakening. Dont have a chance to say it. This sort of frustration, rage, anger and disappointment hoover encountered in the white house, it is not what i expected to see from the quaker president or what people generally think of but it is what happens when you are caught in the crossfire the way it happened with hoover. These are observations about character and about the man behind the mask. And hoover, the guy who let the depression happen, the guy who didnt know how to handle it. That is my understanding as i came into this, but following closely, studying for a couple years, and what he did, i came away with a different understanding that i did not expect and i will share with you and that is the sense that hoover is a man of vision and insight. When you get away from the game of politics into the arena of the prescription of the economy hoover was a lot smarter than he is given credit for and had some important things to say, i will take it in a couple stages, as depression deepens, hoovers response shifts, but right off the bat with the wall street crash, will dont know, the Great Depression in front of you. One thing leads to the next, that talk about the fundamentals of the american economy. The public statement, it is in good shape and we get through this, systematic confidence, we know how to handle these things. He was reluctant to bring the government into engagement, there was no precedent for that, no indication that this crash mental widespread malaise in the economy. Hoovers first reaction was not the governmental one but the leaders of American Business but to cajole or press them, maintain spending, not to cut payroll in the onset of bad news, the pattern up until then. And took stage in front of business conferences which have been laughed at by economists and pundits who say it was a dog and pony show. He felt this was an avenue that might work anyway. Hoover opened the first of these conferences with an appraisal of the wall street crash, far more candid than anything he shared with the public, most anything being said at the time and this is a case of hoover having insights into what was happening. He called this group together, only because, quote, he viewed the crisis because he, quote, viewed the crisis more seriously than a stock market crash, and no means available to gauge the depth of the damage but hoover felt confident the, quote, we could expect a long difficult period at best and there must be much liquidation of inflated values, death and pricing with heavy penalties for the nation, but almost alone among his contemporaries hoover saba was coming. It was not to incite fear. There is plenty of that to go around but to instill awareness of the gravity of the moment and sense of Mission Going forward. There are, quote, immediate duties, businessmen before him to, quote, consider the problem of unemployment and distress, previous crises had seen liquidation of labor and wage cuts and layoffs. Hoover opposed such steps with every instinct. Labor was not a commodity, he said but an entity comprised hoover was never accused of being eloquent and that is a curious way to put things. It would magnify the shock of the market by seldom reduction, he is aware of the problem with spending, driving the economy which might prove inevitable. Wages should fall as a last resort. A likely result of prolonged economic doldrums, hopefully then the hardships might be avoided. Whether this was a dog and pony show, the first year of depression wages stayed up. Economists were starting to worry these high wages were stifling recovery. When it comes to the human cost of the depression, for more than a year up to this initial onset, hiring if they were going to cut half shifts, reduced hours before you reduce the number of employees there were a lot of measures taken to try to share the whole brunt on their own. A lot of this eroded as science got worse and worse but it was a bona fide effort to dampen the effect of the crash and unemployment and for time it worked. There are a couple other examples. What i found to be surprising to hoovers insight, hoovers pronouncement, principal public acts of oncoming they are not the extent of his engagement. Hoover was cerebral and conscientious and the nature of the economic problem. One arena he focused on was housing. Hoover saw the germ of a solution by surveying employment and obstructions, obstacles that might be cleared away, and found that in the credit structure, they were limited to half the value of the new structure, aspiring homeowners cover the other half. Mortgage ran 3 to 5 years, or refinance, and initial construction carried Interest Rates high through 20 . Mortgage changed a lot since then but hoover is looking at the whole situation and focused on awkward financing structure, his new focus on home finance represented an important insight. Studies conducted later with data unavailable to hoover at the time showed Residential Construction was a leading factor in the general collapse, 12 sectors broken out from 1971s study construction showed the sharpest and deepest of all, well before any other points, hoover noticed a distinct proportional decrease in the amount of credit available for homebuilding. This comes to the front when credit available for this purpose almost disappears. Recognizing the ailments, hoover saw an opportunity, they would generate substantial employment, not just on construction but producing building materials, and increasing improvement in Housing Conditions is utmost social importance. He proposed to the people of the Federal Reserve launching a new system of finance that people of the Federal Reserve at the time didnt share hoovers concern about credit, there is plenty of credit, Something Else going wrong and it is not the time to launch a new initiative. Hoover was frustrated with the return. And to circumvent people at the fed. He put his proposal into legislation for home loan finance board, stalled in congress for a couple years but among final acts of congress under the hoover presidency lost the federal home loan, it was an indication to get things done, never amounted to hoovers ambition for the project but it is an indication to the problem. The sophistication i dont think it is generally recognized. Again, as the depression pressed on, around the world countries around the world, people around the world consider the depression to be the deathknell of capitalism, the end of cycles predicted by karl marx, the capitalism finally reached a high watermark and collapsed. That is part of what happens. The market asset valuations running up a huge bubble and the collapse, we are pretty familiar with the cycle these days and that happened at the time. It is not to abandon capitalism. Capitalism doesnt work. So you had the first revolution, the soviet revolution in russia followed by revolutions all around the world particularly in south america. A socialist model, and the rise of fascists in italy and germany, people turning away from the capitalist economy to a planned economy. Especially among corporate industrialists saying we need to plan our economy. We need to centralize planning, that is the future, soviets doing 5year plans, we need 10 year plans, hoover rejected that and alone at the top of the elites, world leaders, hoover was saying this was not the end of capitalism. Capitalism, private enterprise remains the engine that drives progress, never let go of that. More than that, rather than a crisis in capitalism he broke it down, a crisis of credit, the problem was not capitalism didnt work but the credit markets had been shut down by asset valuation and proceedings like that so hoovers response was a federal home loan board, federal land lending monetary easing pushing at the Federal Reserve, lower Interest Rates, anticipating the tarp program, quantitative easing policy that we have been pursuing now as a way to reinflate out of the deflation, not inflated as hoover but easing credit, opening channels of credit, making sure the capitalist system works the way it is supposed to. That was his response to the depression. At a time a lot of people were losing their bearings, gravitating to gravitated systems that long since now have been discredited is over who saw that was not the way to turn, this was a crisis of credit, not capitalism. Brought to bear a whole raft of innovative proposals to respond to that. I wont read passages about that. This book is a story of innovations hoover pursuit . He needs to be recognized for the vision and recognition of the nature of the crisis, the way to climb out of it. I will finish by pursuing that a little farther. If hoover was so smart why didnt it work . There is an answer to that and that is hoovers allegiance to gold. The Gold Standard was the principal Economic Framework for the xl years leading up to world war i which were 40 years of remarkable Global Economic development and integration for which the Gold Standard was integrated. It did integrate in parallel pricing the different economies all over the face of the globe and led to the unprecedented expansion of Economic Activity and wellbeing all through the latter part of the 19th century. Coming into the 20th, world war i and so on, hoover was trying after the chaos of world war i most of the countries of the world returned to the Gold Standard just before the depression hit. Hoover trying to hold on to gold at a time when there was disruption all over the world and it looked like chaos. Hoover believe the return of the Gold Standard would stem chaos. Whether that was true or not you never know. Chaos took over, competing in devaluation to pull countries out of the depression. The United States under hoover was the last to get go of gold, until Franklin Roosevelt came in and delivery was delayed in the us and we were among the last to pull out of the depression. This is largely considered to be wealth, foolish enough to hold onto gold, that may be the case. The jury, is still out, the world from Hoover Herbert hoover to now, the next thing that happened was fdr, the abandonment of the Gold Standard which happened by stages, to Richard Nixon but that is what we did, let go of the gold content of the dollar and let the dollar rise, inflate, by and large that made us more competitive. However, the other thing is you start to inflate, asset values start to inflate, you start incurring debt which is what the us did and all the western economies did until you go from there to today where under the Gold Standard it was very clear if you start going into deficit people started withdrawing foreign currencies, selling off, cashing in for gold, and automatic discipline in the International Monetary system. Without that feature asset values can inflate indefinitely. The world is kind of swimming in debt, which so far has been okay. When we hit downturn like we did in 2009 and quantitative easing, more inflation off the shoulder, and the democracies, it is worth the paper printed on. If it goes to a waterfall clip where all these asset valuations to take down to earth. I would say, letting go of a Firm Standard of value, inflating currencies and inflating Massive Public debt. I am not clear that was the right answer. As far as raising up Herbert Hoover as an economic visionary, i would say that is what i consider a real discovery for me. That is my talk. Im happy to answer questions and i will be signing. Dont know if tom can tell me if i overstayed my limit. Are you taking questions . The way this will work, if you have a question raise your hand and dont start your question until you have a microphone. What president hoover wanted to do and failed, roosevelt picked up and succeeded. There were a few things. In particular, for example, the reconstruction finance corp. Which hoover devised to channel funds into the banks, it was a first step in that direction by the federal government x consequently and consequently, both the republicans and democrats in congress who put forth the program put a lot of restrictions on it; high Capital Requirements for the loans, a lot of scrutiny and a lot of sort of obstacles in paying that money out. When the democrats took over and fdr took over, they, they were much freer with the funds from the reconstruction finance corp. They had a lot of success floating industry as well as banks, so they started with what hoover had and expanded on it and found it to be very important in staging the recovery. Some of hoovers foreign policies as well, i mean, that, the problem farm policies as well, the rob in agriculture the problem in agriculture preceded the depression. There was good basis to believe that agricultural problems precipitated the depression. Hoovers to response the farmers strategy that they wanted adopted was to have two markets, a domestic market and then an export market. And when you sold at low prices on the export market, the government would give you a subsidy to match the high domestic price that they were keeping in the u. S. Markets. It was a very con convoluted, twoprice strategy that hoover and several other republican administrations rejected. And hoover came in, his first act as president was to call for a special session of congress for new agricultural policy. He instituted the federal farm he instituted the federal farm board which, now hoover understood that price supports were a dead end, that trying to keep american prices high against the backdrop of the low Price International market was futile. But the farmers wanted action, and hoover wanted something to happen. They instituted the federal farm board. They started buying crops to maintain crop prices and stockpiling them. They ended up with huge warehouses full of grain that were all rotting. It was kind of a disastrous policy. But the Roosevelt Administration pursued many of same policies and then expanded on some of them, paying farmers not to grow crops and that sort of thing. Some of that was pioneered under the hoover farm administration. Roosevelt pursued it as well. Its hard to say that that was a success, and its sort of theres a vestige now of the price supports that we pay now, the ironic situation of paying people not to plant crops. All of that survives first from the hoover farm board, then from the roosevelt farm administration. All different ways of trying to deal with an intractable agricultural problem that weve been dealing with now for Something Like a hundred years. Those are probably the principal ones, the rfc. The housing board remained under roosevelt. That expanded its operations. There were a lot of and i think the basic thing that people point to is that until hoover, the federal government really did take its hands off in the face of economic problems and say thats, thats for the Business People and the society as a whole to deal with. Thats not for government. The ups and downs of the economy are just the way it is. Thats life. Hoover wasnt ready to accept that. And i dont know that he could. I mean, society was getting bigger, more urban. When hoover came in, it had just crossed the line from most americans living rural to being urban, you know, city people. And when youre dealing with large numbers of people who dont have access to the land, the sort of basic resources you get from its really hard to starve be youre a farmer if youre a farmer, but theres a lot of starving that set in in the urban areas during the depression. People needed food, and there was no they didnt have root cellars they could go to. So the whole idea of the government stepping in in the face of economic distress, that started under hoover. And thats what, thats what roosevelt was all about. So in some, you know, theres been a debate historically for some time is hoover the end of the old or the beginning of the new. And i think theres elements on both sides, but i think hoover did open the door to a lot of roosevelt and what happened after that. Thats my long answer to your short question. [laughter] you mentioned he was kind of a hardcharging executive beforehand, then as president he was kind of more ambivalent. Did he get his mojo back after he got out of office and turned back into the guy he was before. No. Thats my short answer. No. He went through a real life change with the presidency. Up until he was president , as somebody put it, hoover never failed at anything. He was successful in a wide range of endeavors from being poor and lacking education he got to stanford, he got educated, he got became very successful and wealthy as a globetrotting geological consultant. He made his first million by the age of 40, and that was in a time when a Million Dollars was a Million Dollars. And then he turned his attention to public service, and he did so during world war i. So he was running these massive and very highly regarded aid programs. And as secretary of commerce, he presided over the roaring 20s, the greatest seven or eight years of Economic Growth americas ever seen. And he was considered to have a lot to do with a lot of that. Then he becomes president , and hes everybodys whipping boy for what happened and loses all his prestige. And then having left the white house, he stays silent for a year. He goes into a withdrawn kind of state. And hen he comes back and then he comes back as a critic of fdr, critic of the new deal. And whereas before hed been sort of an affirmative kind of guy talking about what we need to do and positive in his outlook, ever after it was about what were doing wrong and beating up on roosevelt from a position where actually, i mean, he wasnt laying a glove on roosevelt. And, in fact, roosevelt spent the next four elections running against hoover all over again. Every time the republicans put somebody new forward, he said, oh, its just another hoover, and you dont want that again, do you . And everybody agreed, no, we dont, and they voted for roosevelt. His first glimmer of sort of being acknowledged as a former president and maybe not a completely useless person was from truman who extended a hand and then asked him to review situations in europe for humanitarian purposes and sort of put him on his old track. But hoover didnt become another, didnt go back to the relief business, the aid thing. He did those things for truman. He then was invited by truman and then again by eisenhower to review the efficiencies of the u. S. Government. So there was the hoover commissions, and they made recommendations, and a lot of them were followed. So his, he got some plaudits as an administrator. But politically he kept going back to the conventions and sort of hoping that thered be a call for lets bring hoover back in the republican conventions. And, in fact, the republicans were treating him like kryptonite and sort of, no, no, you stay over there. And hoover had to live with that. And as much as he got some of the recognition back, his stature as a former statesman, that was it for him. Thanks again. With president hoover, we had a selfmade, very wealthy person that did a lot of successful things that youve already covered. And you get a mindset, you get a way of doing things as a result, traits, personal traits. Now we have a somewhat selfmade, very wealthy man running for president. Do you see anything that would be helpful for him to understand so that he wouldnt go into the potholes or mistakes that in preparing for this next president ial election . So thats an interesting question. Yes. And to just bring it a little farther, hoover was elected president , that was his first elected office. That will be the, be if this results in trump being our president , this will be his first, so they will have that in common. But where hoover never really had a bond, he had a lot of respect for the american people. But hoover hated public be appearances. This was one of his divided sort of character things. He wanted to be a public figure, but he didnt want to deal with the public. He didnt like public speaking, he didnt like the dog and uponny show aspect of being president and pony show aspect of being president whereas trump seems to enjoy that part of it. Even before he got there. So i dont think they share the same assets and deventures sort of thing. Their strong suits are different. However, i do think that one thing that hoover ran into in the white house, something that litman talked about, was that theres the process of politics is messy and uncertain, and youre constantly being put in a position of making deals with people that maybe you dont want to deal with. Hoover was not very good at that. I wonder how good trump will be at that. Hes the whole thing about being a successful private enterprise type executive is making decisions quick, making them stick, sticking to something that maybe doesnt look like the right thing to do, but you have some insight, and youre going to, you know, thats how you make a lot of money, is by getting people to buy things from you that pay more than theyre worth or you buy things for less than theyre worth. And that requires private acumen. Thats not the same thing as persuading all of congress to to go along with what you want to do. I wonder how trump is going to deal with the situation when he says heres what weve got to do, everybody get in line and everybody just stands there and looks at him and says, well, im not getting in line, you know . [laughter] maybe well see. Maybe not. [inaudible] i think if you have any further questions, you can ask them of charles as hes signing your book, hint, hint. And lets thank him once more for his presentation. [applause] thank you. Thank you for coming and safe travels. [inaudible conversations] heres a look at some of the upcoming book fairs and festivals happening around the country. On saturday, august 22nd, booktv is live at the Second Annual mississippi book festival held at the state capital in jackson, featuring former Senate Majority leader trent lott and biographer john meacham. Coming up on september 18th, its the brooklyn book festival. Later in the month, the annual baltimore book festival will take place at the citys inner harbor. And on saturday, september 24th, for the 16th year in a row booktv will be live with author talks from National Book festival hosted by the library of congress at the washington