Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Empty Mansions 20140330

If you can be mobilized by that then i think it just shows to that we really dont need to worry about things like that. [applause] thank you all for being here. The authors will be finding books out on the mall. And i wish all of you a very good day. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] next from tucson, arizona, coauthors build dedman and paul newell present their biography together onq get clark. [inaudible conversations] okay. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the tucson festival of books. I hosted arizona illustrated on channel six, pbs for 23 years. And in 2011 i started my own business and my own radio show and we are on each weekday. Noon to one on the voice. And i would like to thank you all for coming out this particular portion of our festival. It is being sponsored by the city of tucson and arizona daily daughter. We thank them for their support. This presentation will last about one hour and we will have plenty of time as we carve out at least 20 minutes for all of your questions. And we will get some good answers to them. Please hold your questions until we get into the final portion of our program. Then the authors will be able to meet and greet you and find for their books and out of respect for your fellow fellow audience members we ask that you please turn off your cell phones and so i see some of the region to do that right now indeed. And today we want to welcome the coauthors of the bestselling book. It is called empty mansions the mysterious life of Huguette Clark and the spending of a Great American fortune. And bill dedman is an investigative reporter. Hes right next to me here. Investigative reporter for nbc news. He received the 1989 Pulitzer Prize for his work in the series was called the color of money. This was a series of articles in the atlantic journal constitution on Racial Discrimination by mortgage lenders and middle income neighborhoods. In 2010 he introduced the public eris Huguette Clark in her empty mansions there with compelling series of narratives for nbc, which by the way became the most popular features in the history of nbcs news website. 110 million and mr. Paul clark newell. He has researched the clark family for 20 years. He said many conversations about the life and family of Huguette Clark. He also received a private tour of the private estate overlooking the Pacific Ocean in the Santa Barbara area. It is an ugly compelling story that i could not put down and so right off the bat i want to say congratulations to both of you. Im sure many of our audience members also have enjoyed the book as well. So lets begin with you. When did you first hear about huguette . It was 2009. My wife and i have houses on the brain. The house values have on in the financial crisis my wifes mother have moved from boston to new york area and we were struck as landlords and in boston we couldnt sell can sell our house. As renters looking for houses but unable to afford them, you have all been in a situation where you are worried about how to get enough Square Footage and how to ride the driveway that bargirls could ride their bikes on. And so we have houses on the brain. I was looking at the real estate listings just for distraction and saw well beyond our price range most expensive house in connecticut was priced at 34 million and then marked down to 25 million or it was a bargain. What a deal. [laughter] it was a cozy charmer with 14,000 square feet and 52 acres and a river. And i was curious who owned it. I imagine that it might be the chairman of general electric, perhaps. I worked and looked at the town website and i saw a note in the zoning records that said this house has been unoccupied since the owner bought it in 1951. And that didnt seem possible. So i went over the next eight to in the caretaker asked me, you know, im not seeing any clark members of the family. I get paid by the lawyer every month. Her lawyer in new york sent me a check. No ones ever lived here, theres no furniture in the house or to take care of it. It seemed more like a bird sanctuary. And as i was leaving he said has to question. Do you supposed to spend that all of these years . [laughter] well, i did not know. But it turned out that this was not her niceness empty house and she had a nicer house in california in Santa Barbara close to 100 million overlooking the pacific that she last visited in the 1950s and the legend was that partners were still at work and that the cars were untouched in the garage and i didnt believe that. But in the book you can see a picture of the cadillac limousine and the oldsmobile convertible booklet license plates with a 1949. And she had 50,000 square feet overlooking central park and three apartments, 42 rooms in new york city where the doorman said no, its at least 20 years we have not seen her. The elevator does not stop on her floor. And so that started a hunt to see what had happened to this reclusive woman who it turned out was tied to an amazing american family. Her father had been thought to be as rich as rockefeller in the early 1900 and was known as a genius in business but sullied his reputation in politics. And part we have the 17th amendment allowing for direct election of senators because clark was paying legislators to vote for him in montana. And he traded from memory and it was astonishing to think of the math, he had been born in 1839 he was 22 years old when the civil war began. He was born in the Martin Van Buren administration and his youngest child, born in 1906 in paris during the Teddy Roosevelt administration might still be alive one barack obama was president. She held a ticket on the titanic and she was alive on 9 11. So that is what began going out string of this of a search to find out what was her story and what had happened to her and why was much of her property being sold. And then you hook up with paul. When did that happen . This is after she died in 2011 at age 104. She was two weeks short for 105th birthday. One of the relatives introduced me to paul and said that you fellas might be writing the same book, you should get together. And im very glad that we did. Paul, can you tell us a little bit about how you what did you known what was it like growing up about huguette . Very little. As a matter of fact even then and right up to the time that bill invaded her privacy, she was virtually unknown. Her father had been a very famous american tycoon. Clark county is named in the valley. But even his name had faded. So its not an unusual name like rockefeller. But im sure that was partly because he didnt leave tracks or a big legacy in terms of philanthropic activity or other ways in which his name specifically was standing as one of the great, i guess today we call it a billionaire. But in his time, hundreds of millions of dollars. Was the first time that he spoke with huguette . The first time was in 1990 or. And i have been chipping away for some time in terms of the general Family History of focus more on her father. Partly because there was so little known about her and at the time i was not even informed that she was still living. And that applied with many other places within the family. We had many other family members who one or two i recall specifically, they said thought i saw her once about six years ago at a funeral. And i didnt have an opportunity to actually talk with her, but i think that i saw her. And so that is how completely link the table had been. Ville, lets start with mr. Clark and the little bit about him. Mackey was remarkable. He 50 american archetype of middle income farming family that moved to iowa when the civil war began. Shortly before construction started he went west of colorado and then up to montana territory. He was mining gold and eventually became involved in merchandising. He was a merchant delivering the mail and selling eggs and pick axes to minors. Lending money at two to 5 per month. And he became the owner of some minds in montana. Even though he had a wife and young children, he went back to Columbia University to study geology and he learned a great deal and he got wealthy with silver and zinc and gold. Eventually his biggest earning was in arizona. It was the most lucrative copper mine in the world in early 1900. He own it outright with more than 99 of the shares traded and he got into railroads are to build a railroad connecting los angeles to Salt Lake City and on to the east. Opening the port of los angeles. He is a visionary in that regard. Along the way he needed a watering stop for his railroad to store water and pick up supplies and that became las vegas, which he auctioned off at its founding in 1905. But he sullied his reputation from the politics and soon the early 19 hundreds he was in all the magazines covers. A wellknown figure in new york and across the country. Lampooned in cartoons and often ostentation. He had a huge Art Collection and would throw open the doors of his mansion in new york city to allow the public to tour the five art galleries. That was his family home in new york city. 121 rooms for a family of four. That is the circumstance that she grew up in after coming over from paris and 1904. There were the two children. Huguette was the youngest. Yes. In the first daughter and her sister died tragically. Yes, her sister died just short of her 17th birthday of meningitis. This is well before penicillin. The family had great concerns and they had a quarantine cower in the top of the mansion. Yet they grew up in a household with a lot of fears. Fears of kidnapping rap the forefront. And her sister was an outdoors girl and the girl scout. So after she died the family donated the First National Girl Scout Camp, in new york city. Some of you may have gone to Girl Scout Camp there were the clerks gave more than 100 acres for that camp. And huguette wouldve been an early teenager at the time that only sibling died in a one conversations begin with you and huguette, had huguette gone into the hospital at that time . Yes, she had probably been several years in doctors hospitals, which at that time was a hospital that celebrities patronize. If she liked the visit so much, you said that she stayed . Yet. Her residence literally became a hospital. Exactly. Yes. But she was in pretty bad shape when she went into the hospital. Yes, she had some medical issues they were not potentially chronic problems and they could be dealt with effectively at that time. Out of somebody disappear off the radar screen a map why are they not being remembered . Until your work. The lack of philanthropy is the key thing. Theres a lot of negative things you could say. But he plastered his names name is on leverage across america. So he more. But clark was philanthropic the extent that he gave his Art Collection in washington dc and theres a building there. A clerk told in narrative faces the museums collection of european art. But the house was torn down and the businesses were sold and the common name and its really a failure of succession of maintaining of a reputation. He worked so hard to build a reputation in society when he was alive. Also the male heirs kept dying in the and the great hope for a while was that his grandson named tertius, he died in an airplane accident of the parkdale and his wife saw the plane go down from there works. And he was with lindberghs friend and they were practicing flying as he had flown across the atlantic unable to see out the front. And there was a line with she and her halfsister sold off the business in the late 1920s and early 1930s. So there was no legacy left. Im going to let you go up to the microphone over here. We have an audio. Why dont you describe how you reached huguette to call you back. Im going to have bill go over to this microphone right here. Okay, over at this one. And then he has some visuals for. Are we going to start with the audio clip . Okay. To return to this point, one of the first experiences that i had confirming she was still living was at the museum in washington he were as bill noted clarks fine Art Collection was assembled and is out there today. Its a museum that is about a half walk from the white house. So its nicely located within washington dc and i visited that in late 1994 and went through the collection and talked with the archivist there and she told me that huguette was alive. So that was interesting to hear. Still alive, but they werent exactly sure where she lived. They thought she was still in new york. But they had no direct contact with her and her attorney, who at that time had been returning for 15 years or so, he was the intermediary the people talk to and generally the answer was not possible. However, he acknowledged to the archivist that he had never met huguette. And he had been her attorney for all of these years. Beyond that point another 10 years or so, succeeded by another attorney who is affiliated in the same firm never met her until i think after she i think he did meet her once just prior to the time that she died. So that is how alone and have protected huguette boys. She was very isolated. So i thought to write her a letter. And i prepare the letter and asked that he send it along to huguette. But i think that i would hear back from her . Frankly, no i did not. I do not think i would be likely to happen just raised upon their lifestyle is thus as we knew it. But it was within 10 days of that but i found a message on my answering machine and i was sometimes a way for days at a time, i did have easy contact my answering machine. And there is a message for me that this is huguette. And so she talked briefly am not occasion and said i want to speak with you and very much i would like to have you be available so i can talk to you. So i was delighted by now. Then frequently frustrated and that she left messages with no return number. And just happen to reach me quite a few times when i was away and the only way i would have record of her conduct was through the answering machine. So later in the year of 1994, i wrote to her and told her that i was going to be in new york city and id be happy to talk with her. So was there to meet some of the members of the clark family, even the fairly distant relatives of hers. The descendents of senator clark. And so i scheduled a meeting with one of her just enough years who was of dual citizenship and primarily a french citizen and at that time was part of the Council General representing france and the consular. Not the embassy, but the consulate in new york city. He was within blocks of we thought she was residing in this 15,000 square foot apartment. I got an the gunslinger and city. Had a late dinner that night and the phone was ringing as i got in that. So i picked up the phone and she said this is huguette. Shes actually my cousin. But she knew that i had wanted to meet with another cousin of his who is known to huguette commode should never met him. [inaudible question] yes . Oh, thank you. [inaudible question] we speak into the microphone. Hello, this is your aunt you called. So anyway im getting long time. The fever went down and everything is much better. And thank you for the pictures. Your daughter is beautiful. And your little grandson is adorable. So at that point the answering machine had timed out. I detect kind of a french accent. I was her first language. Yes. Is important that the senator had all of his children to have him speak several languages and push hard for his education for them. And he was a very important part of her life growing up smashers born in paris in 1906. Perhaps she was named for victor hugo. Huguette, as you know. Her mother, you have to realize, there was quite a difference in age between mother and father. Her mother was 39 years younger than her husband. And they have two daughters, which they appear always thought of themselves as french and they were born in paris and then came to america to that great house in new york city. Which is no longer there. Wreck and after the father died, he was quite reserved and private but a public figure and the show he won and they were quite public as a family in terms of holding fundraisers in our house and after he died great mansion was torn down. It was too expensive to operate or for anyone else to own. And so there were 31 bathrooms if you wanted to use it every day of the month, uk. So its one down and 27 after the father died and mother and daughter moved down the street to separate apartments in the same apartment building. Seventyseven fifth avenue new york. Overlooking the conservatory pond where stewart raced to rowboats. I was told that my be fictional. Im not sure. But they lived very quietly. Mother was interested in Chamber Music and huguette was a collector and a builder of dollhouses and a student of japanese history and she commissioned japanese model buildings of tea houses and palaces and residences and at 50 to 80,000 talking with an artist in japan who would go to get pictures at the back of the palace and then the men so that they could work on their design and to get the fabrics just right. She was a meticulous and quiet artist. She took a lot of photographs and was a clip or of cameras. She had her passions. But the requisite that he deemed to be in line with her mothers, not going out much. And they were rarely seen in public in the 30s or 40s. In the 50s she went to the french consulate of consulate of the street for the christian to your fans and shows that would be there because she wanted to study the fashions for her dolls. And she went out to have her violin restrung and she was a collector of paintings by renuart. And she had passions but they were very private inside artistic wise. And so we dont know that she was out of the house at all in the 60s or 70s or 80s. But she stayed there in 1991. She is still writing checks out this time . And i guess im her generosity was great. You know. Most of her generosity was private. A spectacular example of that is her nurse and a half ago. A filipino immigrant who was randomly assigned by a Home Health Agency to work for this woman is a private duty nursing on her own. She was a dangerous working 12 hours a day seven days a week for many years. Then they moved to three eighthour shifts and during the 20 years that they had served her, her family received 31 million in gifts during this 20 years. And so who was most convenient situation in brooklyn. There was no evidence that she was pestering her for gifts. She would say, well, my brother is coming to visit. And huguette would ask where were you be saying. And she said that they will be staying with us. So then huguette bop in the house around the corner. So even the nurse had empty mansions. Can you explain worth one the senator was likely next estimates vary widely and the goal is to keep the evaluation as low well as possible to limit the estate taxes. It was estimated from 50 to 250. And that is such a wide range. Huguette inherited one fifth of that. Poor children from the first marriage got four shares and she got a bit share. When she died, she doesnt seem to have lived well, you could debate whether she lived extravagantly. Her Monthly Expenses in her 20 years in the hospital, for one time we looked at it was about 400,000 per month was her monthly budget. For maintenance of the three unused properties. But the thing that she had bought increased rate land value. She died with about 310 million. And in the largest asset is a home in Santa Barbara. Which she left in her well to her charity and we could talk about the challenge on the battle over the money. You knew that there would be a court battle. Of course. So how many bears came forward to claim a piece of the pie . The will disinherited the descendents of her fathers first marriage. These would be her have great nieces and nephews. There were 19 they came forward to challenge the will. The arguments was that the will was a mess, which it was. And that she was incompetent. And that there was undue influence on her from the attorney and the nurse and the accountant etc. So as paul pointed out, these relatives knew her and had had some contact with her a letter and phone and so the last time they spoke with her was 1954. But that really doesnt matter. You can inherit money from people youve never met. What matters is that if they could get the will thrown out or not. There was a trial scheduled for this past september. Jury selection began. And then it was settled. A thumbnail description of the settlement is that the nurse who was in line for about 30,000,001 of dollars got nothing. She had to give back five of the 31 to check on the work. Shes okay, dont worry. Oh, we are really worried, yeah. [laughter] they got about 35 million. The attorneys got about 31 million. Student federal government got about 100 million. The estate in california went to a charity to be established as directed in the well. So they were a little bit cash poor. They have a house in a few Million Dollars or then they will have to do it from a board of directors will have to decide this will be a Public Museum or will we all be able to go to her home in california in Santa Barbara. And paul and his daughter had been there. The very few others have been that area and then will we be able to to her that in the future or will they decide that they will just have to sell it and use that cash to serve the arts as directed in the well. As was pointed out, youre not one of the heirs that was contesting the well. Is that correct . That is true. Did you have a piece of the action . People, im sure, they are wondering. I see that you were part of this. [laughter] i borrowed it. [laughter] so the answer is that the rules were odd in both cases are in one case it was a very simple will that was frequently used under the law rather than to list some of them come and register for them that the asset, current assets should be divided should be delivered to the members of her fathers family and delivered as if she had died and another words they became moved into it by just saying that a whole bunch of them were legitimately descendents of her father, we will divide the estate. But this is from her fathers younger sister. So if the will was thrown out, he wasnt a litigant. So there were two wills. The first one as i said was very simple. The second one is one that there is so much tainted on it but it was probably the fed had gone to court, they wouldve had a heckuva time figuring out how to treat that because her Financial Advisor and her attorney were guilty of negligence in many ways in terms of the way that they had handled her debts and income. And they were both beneficiaries to the wealth two yes. And one of the financial individuals was a convicted felon at the time that she died. And so that wasnt anything directly related to huguette, but it was mere on his reputation. So there was a lot of evidence of incompetence or neglect. And then there were odd request including the one to a caregiver that had already received more than 25 million and was scheduled to double that under the second well. Something that hadnt been settled it would be very hard for them to figure out what is the fair thing to do under these are the answers. For me the strongest evidence on the question of this, and the families claim was that you must be psychotic order mentally ill. Shift property shes not using and she has balls. And you may be somebody who finds the collection all again or you may find it creepy. These were beautiful french dolls, 14,000, 20,000 each. And so the best evidence that i can say is be conversations and some of those are in the audio version of the book theres an electronic book and also an audio book you can download. A lot of the conversations are in the book and you can hear how we have tickets on the titanic and the return ticket. The father has shown us this is the we would be in, she said. And she said we had to take another bow. And she knew the name of that other book though, the george washington. When called and bring to mind the name of the hotel where she stayed in 1915, she knew that name. So the jury wouldve heard those and it seems to me pretty strong evidence at that time that she was quite lucid. As i recall in the book when youre talking to her about honolulu and somehow the Royal Hawaiian came up and it was not built until 1927. So she was actually referring to what is called [inaudible] and she described it. And the folks that had ever been there. Its a historic landmark which describes our property and that someone who is not wacko, but someone who really had a together. And they said no, i think it was the milano. And she was right. So before we go to audience questions. Much of the art is actually in a world tour that started these masterpieces. Yes, christies auction house is selling to go into these data in the settlement of some of the art that she owned and the painting went up in california. But the painting that she had bought, there is a monet water lilies worth approximately 25 million and others as well. And there are viewings that will occur in april and may in sales in may and june. So get your bid. So the public can go on certain dates at Rockefeller Center and tour for our collection. So the senator hart, he originally wanted the entire our collection go to the metropolitan museum of art in new york. The question this up to standards and thats why they turn to washington. Real problem is that he insisted that all of us Stay Together forever. And it was the typical arrogant of a donor to give instructions it would carry on after death. So they said its just too much trouble, we dont have a place do that. So they turned down the offer. Whats turned out to some of the questions. And i would ask so everyone can hear. If you go up to one of the few microphones and we can hear your question. Okay. Bill will be putting some visuals up for us as well. I wanted to ask a followup. Weve had the opportunity to see the collection and the clark name had stuck in our minds, the articles about this it appeared the last couple of years and we found it to be fascinating. But could you tell us a little bit more about this. Because i understand that they are going through bankruptcy or perhaps some Financial Difficulties and that played into the way in which the resolution of the will was negotiated. While, in the second well they were a beneficiary. As the case was settled to make everyone feel but they were going to get his fair share, it was settled into a judicial judgment. And i dont know too much about the current condition of it. But it is true they are financially distressed. And its a very well educated museum for them, them in washington dc to be proud of. Would have been recently is that it will affect about worry emerge with a gallery of art. And then it will take the university side. But the very strange circumstance was this painting by monet. And so to present 25 million and the corcoran opposed her well. She joined with the in relatives nearby making the claim that she was incompetent. And it had kept the money that she had given him through the years of incompetency. But the family denied denied that there is a side deal where they would give more money. So its hard to imagine any circus and as to why they would have done on. So in the settlement ends up being 10 million over 25 milliondollar painting. So in such financial difficulty, to give up 15 million. If the painting sells for more than 25 million active half of that additional amount. So sells for 30 and so they gave up the 15 already. It is such a bizarre circumstance. And that they would say if i leave my money will post my well . I cant be dead. Okay, this lady here, please. Okay, sue said that her mother was 39 years younger than her husband. Did they ever get married legally . Thats a good question. Thats a good debate. He gives the appearance of this and what happened is clark was serving in the United States senate with businesses all around the world. At the time that his marriage to this much younger woman was announced. And john edwards has nothing on him. And it was such a surprise when the announcement came to the newspaper, the newspaper did not believe it. And do not publish the story. They were having a scoop on a competing newspaper and said its not possible that he is marrying this woman. And they later presented as one statement they had been married and they have been not put in not area in court testimony. They said that theres no legal record of the marriage and it appears to have been backdated. Meaning later and said that we were married on that day. Announcing not only they had been married but married and already had a child. So is he was he already divorced women. His first wife had died of the worlds fair in chicago. So he was a widower with her own children who are older than his new wife. Pushy parisian . No, she was frenchcanadian and there are stories that her father was a doctor which wasnt true, and she sort of than was adopted in their a lot of madeup stories. But she was a poor girl in butte montana. And she later gave the appearance that she was parisian. s we have our suspicions . Error to contrasting stories. Bizarre in a parade where she was playing the role of the statue of liberty. The political appointments story was that she went from business man businessman and be looking for a sponsor and they said that you should does he clark. Last question. What happens with adults . She left the dolls to the nurse, but in the settlement and the nurse and those either enable go to the house in california. They will decide how many to keep how many trees out to raise funds. Last question. Thats all right. When did she start collecting them . Shes very young surrounded by these dolls. I think that we believe its further back than she can remember. This done right here, please. Is a terrific look. Thank you for doing it. Very enjoyable. The question i have is about senator clarks political reputation that he has remembered it all. Not really once but twice. And as i read your book you give a little bit more nuanced assessment of his political career. And would you expound on that . He was interested politically homeless from the time he arrived and he was making contacts with people and became a mason which included many important people in montana at that time. And so how has the political career started . Well, he was interested to start out with us and also very active as a participant in the development of the constitution for the state when statehood came to montana. But the question is whether he was corrupt. Yes snuck in one context you put this . I think that the Office Purchase today, if it common practice. But its no longer necessary to buy yourself a state legislature to capture that office. In multimillion people are buying seats as we speak today. Its done through various devices with a lot of television. Onestory is about those that criticize clark as being ashamed of the American Public and everyone knows that clarks opponent and politics was a man affiliated with the Standard Oil Company they were trying to take over the copper market. And they had a lot of insider stock scandals attached. The beneficiaries of wish mark twain was rescued from this area at standard oil and there is no evidence that they profited because you know clemens did. It appears that his comments would really help to fix his reputation later, if you were to go now you would be reading mark twain. And it does appear that there was something born out of a business conflict between his benefactor. Yes, maam. You mentioned that you are in new york is actually made from contact. Yes come about as a firsttime but i was there to receive the call. Im wondering if youve actually been met her . Mcnown. The only people who claim that they met her or knew her through the course of most of her life. So by the time she was in seclusion at the hospital, it was really limited to people who were arriving for her food and medical needs and someone within the hospital. Thank you. What has happened to her connecticut and new York Properties or what is going to happen to them . Have they been sold . The connecticut house is now with a the buyer. My wife and i didnt take it. [laughter] we found that we do not need a separate room for drive. [applause] the man who was well known as a handbag designer used to be one for coach. A lot of money in goes into those handbag. And so he and his wife will be moving in with her family into Huguette Clarks house. Apartments in new york sold. They got an effect be asked price for the three departments. And so if you like, ill tell you the pictures. And the first part would take us a minute to go through this. Okay. This is the mansion in montana. And they spent some time here. Its a bedandbreakfast and you can pay their in the bedroom if you like. And on the left her sister, this is her at the house surrounded by her dolls. And i spoke with her best friend who said im the best friend of her closest companion of her dolls. And this is an outcome of the first wife on the far right and the founding of las vegas in 1905. And that is in that house, which you can see today and they moved it wholesale. And so that is a pipe organ that you can see. The daughter in indian headdress sitting on her fathers lap. So theres a great deal of affection between them. In the Amusement Park and garden for people for the people, the older sister after him the Girl Scout Camp is named. And then it carries on with the pictures of the various houses. This is one of her paintings coming out portrait. Yes, youre up to the plate. She got one fifth of the fortune. Did the others burn through it or nobody knows . To my knowledge they are all well off. But how much they have done based on where they started as an inheritance in the 20s, we dont have any information. They are not in any court laws over their inheritance . There are several of them that lived approximate to where huguette wise. She was on the side, Upper East Side on fifth avenue. One of the parties inheriting this was five or 10 blocks from there. And i think that she is now hurting. There was one where we come to the present time and the sad story about one of the entitled person who had become sort of reclusive, i guess. And also it runs in the family. And so anyway he was found dead under a viaduct and probably didnt even know that he was an error in the well. And he had some children that will be the recipients of that. And i think he had some place to hang his hat. But when he was found deceased he had a check that was from the settlement of his mothers estate when she died in 2000, as i recall. Which had never been cached. This picture here we saw a couple of times was the view from her last hospital room. Someone had to look out on the airconditioning units. And there were some labor issues and there was a famous labor group in the head of them was killed. Is that correct . There was a hanging. Yet, at the start of world war i, a lot of money to be made within this and copper and trying to organize the minors from the minors. And so frankly the organizer was found hanged from a bridge there. So the legacy is mixed or negative. Theres a lot of anger about the environmental danger when it ought at least to be shared with his opponent. Marcus daly. When the tourists in your town is a big Open Pit Mine that is filled up with water after the mines closed they have to fire the sound of recorded gunfire to keep the birds from landing in that water, then they are in trouble. But that was really all the legacy of clarks opponents and not of clark himself traded most people, i think, have a general opinion that that is our money that you get with spending. And they forget that the family did make charitable contributions and the Columbia Gardens park in people debate whether its his money or their money and build the town. So it is a matter of dispute in english today in montana. And of course arizona is known for the quirks as well. So yes, maam. The last question. To have a picture of her being a debutante and she sounded really pretty good and interested in people and telephone conversations. What changed it to make her a recluse. She never got married . We have evidence that even as a young child in on her adolescent years she was somewhat withdrawn and timid. We on also noted she had an active mind and she was lucid and so on. But she was not comfortable, whether there is a psychological disorder involving a