Thanks very much and im very happy to be or to get to talk with julia about a book which is what directly. I think there are very few cities that are able to encapsulate the entire country into a Rio De Janeiro does for peoples impression of brazil. I think there are very few books that capture a seat in its entirety as well as this book does about rio. I think what were going to do his julianne is going to begin by reading an excerpt and talk love it among ourselves and open to discussion up to the audience. So without further ado i will let her read a chapter from the book. Thank you all for being here. I really appreciate. This is a little section from the introduction. It started as a process of tapping like inpatient fingers on the desktop. I was on deadline hunched over my desk in the back corner of the associate press newsroom in San Francisco trying to block out the ringing phones and the reporter chatter. This was october 2009 their president obama plan to Reform Health care was the news of the day and my editors in new york wanted an article on what it meant for immigrants. I had a couple of hours to make something coherent out of the report. On my screen census breaches do coalesced into paragraphs. I heard the polls paint but consistent. Then it clicked. I knew the pattern. It was the bass drums that drive the brazilian drumbeat. My eyes flew up into to the news. I walked over. One of the tech writers was already there training his neck to watch, curious about the commotion. There was a long the cobalt of the atlantic, white sand was thick with people, tens of thousands as mens stripped off their shirts on a warm spring day and women danced arms widespread. The whole crowd flashing colors. This was a day. Brazil, Rio De Janeiro was in the running to host the 2016 olympics up against tokyo, madrid and chicago. The announcement will be broadcast live on massive screens raised on the beach. This wasnt the countrys first try. It and did two times before and fail. But this run was given. Brazil was to get a copy of under the Health Care Report over back to an article. Good the other intriguing headlines recently. Brazil was lending money to the International Monetary fund after years of failing to pay its debts. Its the classic grown by a population the size of california. Something remarkable is happening in the southern shiite. Financial papers picked up on even if you most borders of still a place of poverty and parties. The countrys recent good fortune and its olympic bid made for good copy. As a journalist i knew that. Some interest wasnt just professional. I was born in brazil although he spent most of my life rambling from country to country, first as a thought of an Oil Executive and but as reporter. Overtime the routes connecting me to my home country had grown long and thin. I kept them a letter annual visits and by collecting his article such as the ones that littered my desk. Recently i noticed a change in n these articles. What had been occasional pieces, short briefs about a burst of violence or president ial election came more frequently and in greater depth. The world had begun to pay more attention to brazil. The olympic about osha right into the spotlight. So giuliana, one thing thats interesting about the book is rio i think solvency on times with is very carefree people at the beach and somber. Your book just think with some the problems of the city and the violence environmental degradation, poverty and i was wondering. How has the city for some been able to maintain this image for the rest of the world, people abroad especially . Why does remain this very iconic image of brazil . Part the reason why rio has this nature is because it is all of those things at once. If you live there, if you spend time there, you know. It is one of the most beautiful places i have ever been to and its a place where the physical environment imposes itself on your everyday life. You cant step out of your building without going all, my gosh. Its astounding every time you see. And at the same time all of these other things that you live and you suffer if youre based of their our very much true. Went to investigate and way of the other. Water is that the debate is gorgeous and the setting sun is also heavily polluted. You could go for a run where i lived and its beautiful and their flocks of parents and its a picture postcard but its also true that you are the after dark youre very likely to be mugged. Those things coexist sidebyside and they know that and a doughnut for a long time. For some reason outside of brazil there is this travel Agency Poster image of rio end of brazil as if it were a flat place, as if it were a single dimension. Sometimes it would surprise people to mention some of these complexities. I mean, i was recently, talking about some of the other aspects of it. I was reading recently there is an Amnesty International part this is police have killed so we people in the last five years. As the weather goes back, backwards and forwards between the kind of bandits you described and the Security Forces, among themselves. Why do you think rio is such a bother place . Do you think that is representative of brazil as a whole . I think unfortunately it is representative of brazil as a whole. Real have very particular elements that make his violence a particularly rio vista violence, including the fact since the early 80s drug dealing gangs have come to dominate great swaths of the landscape that were virtually abandoned by the state. Police couldnt go in, and these gangs control those spaces. But part of a specific brand of violence and something that hasnt come with many other cities in brazil as well is that the police is often just another faction. You talk about the gangs but theres also the militias and then theres the police itself. Like you said, in the last five years 1500 People Killed. This is according to the police own estimate. This is not ngo wanting to call attention to every case. This is what the police itself records. At the same time its crazy to imagine this is an improvement. In 2007, there were 1330 People Killed by police in Rio De Janeiro state, just in 2007. Did you i always thought one of those illustrated changes, symbols of the Police Attitude towards a population is the special forces of the police. Their official symbol is a school with a knife through it into machine guns behind it. Thats what they were on the patches of the uniform. I think that tells you a lot. Obviously some kind of understanding between the middleclass and upperclass in brazil and thats how they want to be policed. I was wanted to talk about the class structure in rio and what role that plays . The class structure in rio come in brazil in general, this is going to be familiar to any brazilians out there, is unlike the u. S. Where theres this great sense that we are all kind of middleclass, middle class is very broad and a specifically defined, brazil has a very Strong Social hierarchy that not only felt but also, its hard ed whitacre that looks at society. Theres class aa, b. , c. , d. And d. When people talk about the middleclass having grown, they are talking to a specific segment of the population. Its measured and talked about that way. Im sorry to hear asked about the class structure in connection to i was just saying the way the Security Forces are open these kind of, because that is what society has accepted i guess i was wondering whats the difference between, for example, if youre born into a family in one city compared to another . All the difference in the world. For example, when people talk and asked me if rio is dangerous, my answer is it is depends. It is more dangerous than coral gables but its also very pretty been whether youre born and a cervelo that has a history and is tied to some iconic episodes of violence in a very violent city. Or somebody like me, i maybe pickpocketed. Thats the kind of violence i may be subjected to, realistically. If i were a young black man, leaving him to buy bread might mean a runin with police and the might misinterpret something i did and i could end up dead. These things happen on a very regular basis in brazil. They dont even make ripples. Its astonishing. I would love to see for example, a study, cases of People Killed in Rio De Janeiro and went into in the pages of the newspaper eric a young black boy killed by police as a matter if hes a teenager will be in the back pages by the weather. You know, a wealthy white person such as a restaurant owner, one of the more affluent neighborhoods in rio come terrible story. Nobody deserves to meet a violent death but that case made front pages and remain in the front section of the newspaper for well over a week. Why do you think these kind of Class Divisions have persisted for so long . Thats a very complex answer but i really think it has to do a lot with one brazils legacy of slavery that was never really successful, i cant even say successfully dealt with. It was just never dealt with. Result is a country that still hasnt faced what that meant. And many of the inequalities that stem from that are still very much entrenched in a structural part of society. I also feel like there has never been a very significant challenge to this social structure in brazil. Theres never been a revolution, theres never been something that really shook it up. I think part of why when president lula was elected a few years ago, the first workingclass president of brazil ever had, it felt revolutionary too many brazilians. Because nothing like this had never happened. There was no, the working class basically had never seen themselves represented in power. Spent i read at the time he was elected, is comparable to the abolition of slavery. Yes. How did it turn out . Did it turn out and powering the underclass . Thats also a very complex answer. Its hard to reduce it to something simple. The simple answer is yes. Having the Workers Party in power did mean that people who would never have access to the circles of power had access to them. And the Workers Party also implement similar specific programs that did a lot for the poorest, for the people who had been historically not just neglected, shut out of resources, absolutely invisible. The most obvious example is a transfer of Wealth Program that gives money, subsistence money really, not money you could live on. [inaudible] [no audio] you are watching the tv, television for serious readers. You can watch any program you see online at booktv. Org. All persons having business before the honorable the Supreme Court of the united states, give their attention your. Number 759. Petitioner versus arizona. We hear arguments for number 18 road the way. Madison is probably the most famous case this court ever decided. It existed as enslaved people here on land where slavery wasnt legally recognized. Putting a decision in effect would take president ial orders, the presence of federal troops and the marshals, and the courage of children. We wanted to pick cases that change the direction and import of the site and also changed society. So she told them that they would have to have a search, and she demanded to see the paper and read it and see what it was, which they refused to do so she grabbed it out of his hands and looked at it, and after the Police Officer handcuffed her. I cant imagine a better way to bring constitution to light by telling him stories been great Supreme Court cases. The boldly opposed forced internment of japaneseamericans during world war ii. After being convicted for failing to report for relocation, he took his case all the way to the Supreme Court spirit quite often enemy of our most famous decisions are ones that the court took that were quite unpopular. If you had to pick one freedom that was the most essential to the functioning of a democracy, it has to be freedom of speech. Lets go through a few cases that illustrate dramatically and visually what it means to live in a society of 310 million different people who helped stick together because they believe in the rule of law. Landmark cases, an exploration of 12 historic Supreme Court decisions and the human stories behind them come and new series on cspan produced in cooperation with the National Constitution center debuting monday october the at 9 p. M. Theres a lot of wellintentioned policies that still have the general theme of protecting older interests in keeping young people out. We all know if young people dont vote, they dont care about politics but, unfortunately, even if young people back to the political process, politicians dont ignore them and they passed bills come to things like increased tension for government workers, spend more money on Social Security and medicare, and pushed other regulations that the immediate benefits on some politically powerful interests within say regarding to push the cost of fuel cant vote yet, are not politically engaged or not even born. These are major changes that will have to come to millennials once they come to a just a paying taxes. If you want to write the federal deficit right now, im talking 18 trillion on the books, we would need to increase all federal taxes by 57 or cut all of Government Services by 37 excluding the interest were paying on our debt. That mentioned people are either going to be getting less services for the same price or they will be paying a lot more to try to bring these unfunded promises. One thing we see as positive is Young People Attitudes have changed. The last six years the kind of left a bitter taste. We all know they went enthusiastically for the hope and change promise by president obama but now twothirds of millennials see Government Spending as inefficient and wasteful. Thats up from 40 when president obama took office. Only 16 think regulations benefit the public. What i see is they see the ridesharing to things like airbnb and they see the regulation are just protecting established business and they see no reason why they shouldnt have a take over or start running at their apartment to make money on the weekend, but they shouldnt be allowed to do that when they are not hurting anyone else . Thats why we put a specific chapter on occupational licensing because this isnt just taxi drivers or hotels. Et al. Across the economy we are seeing common interest getting together. Back in the 1950s only one in 20 American Workers needed to get government permission slip to start working. Now thats one in three. This has expanded drastically. People talk about unions or minimum wage or any of the other regulations. We see nothing that has explode as much as occupatio licensing. Now moving on to the way to get out of this problem though is not going to be through doing more government programs. Rather we need to care back regulatory, including holding back americans economy. The numbers are daunting. If we take into account Social Security and medicare, all of the unfunded promises weve made means america is now 200 trillion in debt. Thats unfathomable. I cant picture what 200 trillion would look like. Maybe thats why one of the millennials we talked to told us my generation has grown up with full acceptance of the national debt. Weve never known anything else. To get out of this we need to grow the economy and right now the code of regulations is 175,000 pages long. This isnt just pages and pages of legal jargon. Theres over 1 million turns into like must or cannot or shall. That put real burdens on businesses. I have a hard time remembering i dont know how i can possibly keep out how michael and read 1 million regulations, much less remember all of them . You can watch this and other programs online at booktv. Org. Heres a look at some books that are being published this week. Be and now i booktv from last months mississippi book usm festival held in jackson, a joul Panel Discussion on the civil war. Hello. I would like to thank all of you for coming. Want to start the session offond with a quote from another mississippi author, shelbys as foote. Any understanding of this natiod has to be based on understand of the civil war. Itscivil war defined us as what we are and open is debating what we became come good and bad things. It is very necessary if youre going to understand the american character of the 20th century children about this enormous catastrophe of the 19th century. It was the crossroads of our being and it was a hell of a crossroads. With that i like to introduce my colleagues here at on the far right is timothy smith, mike bowa, justin, and tom parsons and im going to pitch it to tim. Its wonderful to be with you today. I think what were going to do first is just kind of to you a little bit about ourselves and introduce ourselves. Again, my name is tim smith. I live in tennessee. Mississippi in an hard the. I am a native mississippi and, up in carrollton and went to both ole miss and Mississippi State. Got degrees from both somehow. I am a winner either way. That works out good. My publication in terms of the civil war basically fall into three different categories and each of those categories can overlap a little bit a lot of what i do, particularly recently is with battle history. Ive written on charlotte and Champion Hill and fo for a bookn fort henry and fort donelson now. Another area that i like to get involved in mississippi history and a lot of that will fall into the battle history as well but ive written on senator james george, Mississippi Secession Convention and other mississippi topics. The final area that i like to deal with is dealing with battlefield preservation to a lot of that has to do with memory and postwar activity, how the veterans came back and look at what they did decades before and after wanted to preserve what they did, then memory and so on. And they do that through, one of the big ways is to preserve the battlefields that they fought on. So very interested in the history of battlefield preservation as well. Afternoon. I mike ballard. I am a Professor Emeritus of libraries Mississippi State university. Americas is one of those titles one of those tajik if you stay at a job long enough with out getting run off. I was there over 30 years. Got all my decrees the Mississippi State. So from ackerman, mississippi, where i live and live all during those years, the highway to starkville is like a long driveway. For me. My major interest of Civil War History has been the western ear of the work because im convinced, as are many others, that thats what the war was decided. Most recently i did a book on general grant and the siege of vicksburg. Writer that i did a general study of mississippi in the civil war, the major campaigns and battles, and i might add, came over here, he did a companion volume on the homefront. Hardest one to write, was the history of the Vicksburg Campaign that came out in 2004. Its the only onevolume study i know of that covers the entirety of the campaign. Im very proud of it. So i always like to mention that one. I think al together i dont know when we throw this numbers out because they dont impress anybody usually except us, but ive published a 14 books, authored, coauthored, edited. Spent a lot of years with the war, dating backo dating back to the loons that my family and i used to go on vacation to vicksburg and i was spellbound by the old chair and theyll Courthouse Museum decorated supposedly used during the aftermath of the siege of pittsburgh. Something about the chair always made me want to take it home with me. And it is still there. I dont know what is holding it together. But the word to me is not just the fighting, the killing, taking an income of the bullets, its the people. The soldiers and even more so civilians are very interested in what they went through, when all of them went through. And im also developed an interest in recent years in the mississippi unionist because theres so much we dont know about them. I dont know that it would be possible because if you were a unionist and mrs. D. , it is not something you went around and talk about very much. Its hard to find documents. Some we know about, mostly probably never will know about. Is it that basically an overview of my interest of the people aspect. Im of course course interested in military history but from that top layer, which we all have to be familiar with common down to the people involved as i said, soldiers come the civilians, children, people in towns impacted by the war, that story in mississippi is very compelling as it is in most of the other states. That is just a quick rundown of where i am with my research right now. Hi, my name is dr. Justin salome can imagine professor history at texas christian university. Thank you all for coming out today. Its wonderful to talk about history with all of you and you guys what makes it for a spirit thank you for acting as moderator. I want to say thank you two mike because i like mike. Anyway, my current book that im here to share with you today as engineering victory about the union each of vicksburg and it was a good time and something im very proud of. My personal interest in the civil war actually goes back to when i was very young, about 12 years old. Im initially dont get mad, im from connecticut. Im sorry. I apologized. Im sorry. Im a native texan now. But going to the battlefields in the Eastern Theater with my father when i was young, and today as i said, im here to talk about engineering victory, my latest book. What i talk about in the book, its really a wonderful story about how grants arm, the army of the tennessee, an army that was deficient in engineers, and how that army was able to wage and carry out the most successful siege in American Military history. A lot of people dont realize that happened at vicksburg. In addition to that ive written a chapter in a book called the Chattanooga Campaign about Patrick Clayburn and his rear guard action at ringle gap. So those familiar with the Chattanooga Campaign may know that event. The military history of the western theater of the conflict, so i look forward to answering your questions today, and if you want youre welcome to ask them even after the panel as well. Ill hand it over to tom now. Im tom parson. Is this New Territory when i go to speak they hand out a bulletin that has my bioon it. Im a retired navy chief petty officer from sylmar, california. My education, i like to say i got it at deckplate used. Got interested in the to civil war while i was on active duty. The very First Military park i visited was shiloh, and as luck would haved, when i retired in 1999, i got a job at Shiloh NationalMilitary Park and have been with them for 16 years. The last 11 at the current civil war interpretive center. So ive been a mississippian for 11 years. Im here today to talk about my book work for giants the campaign and battle of tupelo harrisburg. The heart of my research, my interest in the war, lies in what happened in northeast mississippi and west tennessee, and aside from the book ive written several magazine articles, regular column in the daily corinthian with articles about civil war in corinth, mississippi, and im writing on the battle of tupelo. You want to say hi to mike. Im saying hi to tim. We used to be nextdoor neighbors when he was a ranger up at shiloh as well. Tim. And im tim. Sentinel,he serieat i called the is war books and photographic bos of the battlefield. Of the three books we did one ol gettysburg, vicksburg, and shiloh. If have written five more civil war books. And written two books on civil rights since growing up in jackson, i grew up there in that time and theres a big interest in that. And when im not doing books im photojournalist at the sun Herald Newspapers in biloxi. So i was a member of the news room that won the pew litter prize for our katrina coverage. And my labor of live right now is i promised myself, after seeing so much damage from katrina, i was going to do a book that showed the beauty of the coast, and that what im working on right now. And instead of all of us guys talking at you, well open it up and let you ask questions. If you have a question, head to the podium and fire away. If not ill ask justin a quick question. Explain saps to and every the approach of the which one no. Okay. Well, in the book ive written, engineering victory, a lot of technical terms and i tried to explain them and make them as clear as possible. If you have been to vicksburg there are a lot of approach trenches and a different brigade commanders. During the time those were trenches dug toward the vicksburg defenses that cut at sharp angles in order to prevent incoming fire from the confederate defenses. And the sap was a special kind of trench. It wasnt only unique to vicksburg, unique to most seasonals sense then 1700s but a sap utilized what was called ganions, large wicker basket that would be put on the sides of the trenches and filled in with argentina to protect the workers has aadvanced across no mans lan in front of a sap another characteristic feature is what is called a sap roller, and it was a big wicker basket, even bigger, knock on the side and rolled forward, usually with hand crowbars in order to prevent fire coming into the trench. What is different about vicksburg, however, that we see a lot of different types and permutations of sap rollers. Partly because the werent enough engineer officers to correctly instruct the soldiers how to build sap rollersment one of the stories im most fond of vicksburg is sherman, william t. Sherman, on the commander of the 13th corps was riding to visit with one of his Division Commanders and comes up on a group that had been detailed to build gabions. And theyre just standing around him says what are you doing . And they said, the guy hands them the letter that has orders and he says, do you know how to make one . The guy said, no. We havent been in the army that long, never had. To so sherm yap gets off his horse, rolls up this sleeves, attacks an axe and shows them how much to build gabions. A twostar general building gabions. And other improvise it sap rollers. The most famous was called the gun boat which was theres many different descriptions. I have them in the book. The general consensus is that it was some kind of platform structure with wooden wheels and wooden axles and cotton bales on top that i would roll toward the enemy to protect them as the wasnt forward. Unfortunately for the cotton bale and the boat, a soldier fired a piece of fuse from a smooth bore musket into it, and it burned down. Well, they built another one but more traditional. Thats what a sap roller is. I tried to make is at exciting as possible. Lets be honest. Tim, you had in your book about the secession convention, there was a picture, a guy from the new york tribune who talked his way into the secession convention. If you could tell us more about this guy. He fascinates me. Albert richardson. Albert richardson is an interesting character. In fact he wrote a book, i think 1865, 1866, got all of his adventures in it, and apparently he managed to somehow show up in jackson, right about the time of the secession convention, and didnt tell anybody who he was or where he was from and that he was reporter for a northern newspaper, but he did talk his way into the secession convention, and left a very vivid description of what these guys looked like, what the chamber looked like, the wall paper, and the plaster falling from the walls and everything. It was not a very flattering picture of mississippi at the time, but coming from the source that it did, you can imagine. But he this is one of those things you see him later on at fort henry and fort donaldson and he is almost like forrest gump. He is everywhere and does everything and you wonder, how much of this is really the truth . But he does offer really the only contemporary picture or hand drawing of the Mississippi Secession Convention that is out there, and it corresponds very much with what the chamber descriptions say it would have looked like at the time. So, obviously he was there and had a visual view of what was going on and so on, and the things the describes, you can go back into the journals and the newspaper accounts and so on, and it matches up almost perfectly. So i have no doubts he was there. But it was a little bit of trickery to get into the Mississippi Secession Convention they were dumbfounded when they read accounts of what he had written days later in in the New York Herald or whatever the paper was. He is an interesting, which. Mike, ill ask you a question about ulises s. Grant. I think if you told people before the war they would not have said he would be such a compelling character in the civil war. Since you have written and studied so much on grant, give us a feeling about grant, the general, and the man. Well, grants i think, first, its important to know his personality. He was very quiet man, very withdrawn, rarely cracked a joke, rarely smiled at jokes, very inward type personality. He his prewar years were indeed tragic in many ways. He graduated from west point, kind of of middle of the pack. Nothing outstanding about him as a student. Then he got married after the mexican war. Did a good job in the mexican war, nothing really astonish, but did a good job. In fact crossed paths with John Pemberton while he was down there. Neither one of them knew how they would cross paths in later years. Grant came home, married, a lady in missouri. Her julia dent. Her family was a slaveowning family, and from the questions one question that has still swirling around over Civil War History all these year, didnt general grant own slaves . No. He was given a slave by his wifes family, and he proceeded to free that man in a very short time. He never owned any himself. His wifes family certainly did. And in fact, julia took a woman that had been a slave for her family, took that woman with her throughout much of the war, not treating her as a slave but more as a confidante, but in 1864, i believe it was, this lady left, and of course julia did nothing to try to stop her. She was very hurt that this woman would want to leave her, which is kind of a signal of that complex relationship between slaves and masters during the slave years. When grant got back home, he tried a lot of things to make a living. He had resigned from the army. After a brief time in the far west, northwest, he had tried to do some things there farmingwise, and trying to make extra money. He was very unhappy being away from his wife. They were very close throughout marriage, and it was there that he was first accused of drinking in a public way. I think that came about because of his depression, being away from his wife. So he eventually resigned from the army, and that drinking thing was just like you make one mistake and it never goes away. It will follow you all the days of your life, especially if youre a prominent person. So there are many wild stories out there about grants drinking. Only a small, very tiny percentage of them have any truth to them. When grant when the war started, grant was living in gay leap galina, illinois, and organized a local troop there, and then he was called to springfield, illinois, the capitol, by the governor of illinois, to help with paperwork and getting everything organized in illinois. He was, of course, had the west point background, and then he led some troops into forays into missouri, nothing spectacular happened. His battle was at belmont, missouri, just across the river from kentucky. Kind of a mixed bag. He made progress at first and then he had to get his troops out of there in a hurry because the confederates counterattacked with more men. But he made it. Then came fort donaldson, fort henry, shiloh, he lost his command of the army of tennessee at shiloh because henry hall lack, who commanded the whole western region, did not like grant very much and certainly did not like the way he conducted the battle at shiloh the first day. So, after the Union Victory at shiloh, halak took command of the army and made grant second in command, which meant he had nothing to do. And he came very close to resigning from the army, and we can only wonder what might have happened to the union cass if he had. His close friend, william t. Sherman talked him out of it. Sherman would later say, i saved grant when he was drunk and he saved me when i was crazy. And that theres some stories behind that comment, but sherman did indeed talk grant into toughing it out. Eventually halak was called back to washington to be commander in chief of all the union armies Abraham Lincoln was commander in chief. So grant began his campaigning against vicksburg. It went through several months, several phases, certainly dont have time to get into all of those. What grant learned, he was very deeply depressed about what happened after shiloh. It was when he figured out that the people in washington he had a good friend, congressman, named washburn, who was always on his side in washington. And so when he figured out that every time he stubbed his toe that lincoln and halak and ed win stanton, the second of war, were not going to fire him. When he got at confidence from the support he was getting from washington, that pushed him to what he became, very fine general. He had his good good things as a general, some things he was not so good at. But the main thing about him as a general, which is the point i always emphasize, and i think the point that the the main point that makes me admire him so much is that he never gave up. It did not matter how many times he had setbacks. It didnt matter how many times things went wrong. It didnt matter how many infighting there was among his generals. He never gave up. And that what took him through to the victory of vicksburg, later chattanooga, and then into virginia in 1864 against robert e. Lee. That, by the way, is going to be my next boot. Im going with grant to virginia. Im not abandoning the western theater. After all he came from the western theater, and i still live here. So, were not abandoning the western theater, just going eas to show them how its done. But im looking forward to that. And as i did with the book on grant at vicksburg, the general and the siege. I like to focus on him on a daily basis, what was he doing. Never really read anywhere, what was he doing during the seeming of vicksburg on a daily bay is . What roles did he actually play . And i will do that in with him in virginia, too