The investigation exposed one of the most destruction operations and that is aims. He has been serving a life sentence now. It is an account of the men he betrayed. Gene passed away at the end of 2012, but their story gained fresh attention as result of the eightpart abc mini series that started airing last month. There has been a lot of focus on women at the cia. The movie woman dark 30 played on the role of women tracking down bin laden and homeland revolves around a female agent. Her drama lacked compared to these shows. And one of the conditions in putting together assets was she have no affairs. Old school there. Sandy remaining a very bright and determined intelligence professional who did our country a very great service. Review of her book in the Washington Times called circle of treason people joining me in welcoming sandy grimes. [ applause ] thank you very much. Can everybody hear me . All right. I am going to take my glasses off so i can see my notes. I am delighted to be here to talk about our book circle of treason. Before i get started, my remarks are going to be brief because i want to leave time for your questions. I want to say i am hear to represent my good friend and coauthor gene fay. As i tell you about our journey to determine who cause the loss of our soviet assets and what led us to search for a trader in the cia. We knew he wouldnt be a stra e stranger but a coworker, colleague and someone we knew very well. But the circle of treason isnt just about how we identified a sp spry. We were able to tell the stories of contacts with the victims. We participated in a number of handling of the searches and we watches as those who knew who were executes. Always concerned we might have made a mistake but led to their death, but i have to be hop hontest that is what a number of us had to do for years until your mole was yet to be identified. We know it is oliver james or rick as he was known to us. He was a colleague and me and him were carpool partners. And rick aims decided to walk to the front door of the soviet union and volunteer his services to the soviet union. Two months later, he decided to provide his kbg handlers with the names of or identifying information on every single human sources reporting on the soviet union. Those who were currently reporting, those who were retired and those who were do dormant. He knew they would face a trial and be executed with a bullet to the back of the head. Now, it is 1985 and the nightmare begins. Late may, gru asset in athens, greece receives a cable saying you are to return to moscow. We bring him safely to the United States. Earlier august, juke from nigeria is arrested in moscow during a home leave. Sometime between august and october, our aspect in portugal sl also arrested in moscow during a home leave. November 26th, a flight bound to moscow over and back, short trip, but we never see him again. Again, early november, kbg asset in bond with germany travels to east berlin for a threeday conference. He disappears. And into february of 1996. Our asset is arrested in moscow. June or july. Rgu asset in moscow is arrested again. July 7th, 1986 our long retired gru asset is arrested in moscow one day after his 66th birthday. He is the highest ranking Intelligence Officer for the soviet union the government has ever run. And into 1987, our asset, also in moscow, also long retired, is arrested. So here we are. It is the end of 1985 and something is seriously wrong obviously. Two possible explanations we either have a human penetration of the cia or our communications have been compromised; in other words they are reading our traffic. What do we do . Our first action was taken in response to a new volunteer. January of 1986, an agent volunteered. We have no idea if this is a traitor or a technical penetration so we have to guard against each possible. With respect to the trader side of the equation we institute what we still to this day call jekonian security measures where we eliminate everybody aware of the new asset. We have to address the technical side as well. With respect to Staff Communications and the possibility they are reading the traffic on the soviet cases. We punted this one and ignored Staff Communications. He didnt there was zero cable traffic between head quarter and the field station where the new asset was located. We went back to the basics. We say it wasnt the stonea age but it was this close. We did have something sort of out of this world at the time. We have our new asset and we are keeping this one alive. Enter my coauthor who is on assignment in garbone as our chief of station. She returns to Head Quarters in 1986 and she is tapped with trying to determine what in the heck happened. She has a Small Task Force of people who begin this effort. At the same time, gene and her people are looking at our losses, they fbi has also established a task force. They had the same problems with their soviet cases during the same time period as we. Now we will have to fast forward. It is early 1991, a little over five and a half years later. And we still do not have a clue as to what happened. Not a clue. That is not to say that there were not plenty of explanations or leads. There were lots. Each was fully investigated. And each was discarded. Meanwhile, the fbi also doesnt have a clue as to what caused their losses. There is a bit of good news, however. We have not lost a single new source since implementing the security measures. And a number of our reporting sources on the soviet union had continued to increase and we were able to keep every single one of them alive. Because of this, there were some people in senior positions in cia who believed that what happened in 1985 and 1986 was largely a historical problem. It might be nice to know the answer. But it wasnt effecting our current operations. We were doing just fine. We were once again back in business. Enter gene again. She was facing mand pp tto mand retirement. She was still suffering from not be able to answer why we had all of the lossess. She wanted to spend time before her mandatory retirement looking at the cases again. It would only be gene looking at the old records. However that was soon to change. And again, i have to be honest, it was due to happenstance that i ended up working with gene, looking for the answer, as did two fbi employees; one a special agent and one a soviet analyst. We added a fifth member to our little task force eventually. A cia officer from the office of security. The book takes you through our search for a trader. Out of 160 cia employees who had access to information about one or more of our lost cases. The investigation was, and i will use one of genes favorite words, was really pronged. It involved months of mind numbing work with the occasional nugget that kept us going. That is not to say there wasnt a eureakia moment. At the time i was given the task of creating a timeline of all of ricks activities from 1985present which was 1992. That particular august morning, i was able to connect meetings, the dates of meetings rick was having with a soviet developmental contact here in washington, d. C. With cash deposits he had made two one of his local checking accounts. This was the first link that would lead to his arrest to his conviction. It was cache. Cast every deposit, and we only had three, everyone was below the 10,000 reporting requirement the feds put on the bank at the time. All right. Lastly, we gene and i ever afraid he was going to get away with treason . You bet we were. We were drawing to a close in 1993 and several months prior the fbi analyst began to repair a report of our findings. This was not a cia document. It was an official fbi document because we were turning everything over to them. Gene and i did have a say in the dress stages of that paper, but the final wording was beyond our control. As we understood it, when the report came out in march 1993, it did want identify rick aims as the primary suspect. It did however have his name on a short list of other possible suspects. We spent two years looking for this person and our analysis proved that to be the case. We also knew, obviously, the fbi didnt share our beliefs and would continue to focus on their short list. But thankfully and truly is thankfully Additional Information became available which didnt identify rick, but it certainly pointed in his direction. And most importantly it forced the fbi to open a fullscale investigation on rick aims. One year later, february 21st, 1994, president s day, the government holiday, and we were at work. Rick aims was arrested by the fbi around the corner from his house. He was on his way to cia Head Quarters to answer. Not too long after that his wife was arrested at their home. Both pled guilty to espionage. The wife received five years and upon her release she was stripped of her u. S. Citizenship and deported to columbia. Rick received life. And you know, i was just thinking it is almost 20 years. Coming up on 20 years. He is at alan allenwood, pennsylvania, still residing there. Gene and i are most proud we have been finally given permission to be able to tell the story of our assets. They are about real people and spying and contribution. And most importantly, and as gene and i and so many others at cia understood, who these soviet Intelligence Officer volunteered their services to the United States government, they knew they were putting their lives in our hands and we, meaning the cia, failed them. We could not repay them for their sacrifices and certainly couldnt repay their family for losses. But we owed each and everyone an answer. That was our goal. That was our mission and that is the story of the circle of truth. This happened over 20 years ago. With data mining and predictive analytics, do you think that would have helped you in your search . Not at all. I will use this as an example rick aims had no personal meetings here in washington, d. C. All of the personal meetings with his kbg handlar were abroad. However we managed, just like bob hanson, if you keep it simple it tends to work. The basics dont fail you in spying. He loaded drops. He made signal sites. He unloaded drops. And he had complete technical coverage by the fbi and they are very good at that. I mean the phones were bugged, there were cameras everywhere and it wasnt just his house, it was at cia Head Quarters. There were beacons on his car. All of that stuff, no, not in terms of the spying we did. Questions, please [inaudible question] increase affluence and i am questions about how people san antonio people couldnt see the increased consumption. You read about his red jag in the papers. Lets put it this way, rick, as i said, he walked in and started to work for the soviets in april 1985. You saw zero change in rick aims until he returned from a tour in rome in 1989. He was still the rick aims i had always known. Truly. But rick said this was his cover story. That he had gotten the money from his wifes family. Her father had died in the mid80s. We knew they were from a wellconnected family in columbia. As a matter of fact, the family as it turned out, it was the extended family, gave the land to build the largest soccer field in bogaton. He met rick when they were both assi assigned to columbia city. She got her appointment from the president of columbia. So it wasnt out of the question some of the money came from her side of the family. But i always say this with respect to the red jag. Rick and i parked in the same garage. And this is while we were on the task force. I had to walk past three jags before i got to my car and one was ricks. This wasnt out of the ordinary. And the name, and i might add this, with respect to ricks drinking. Gene and i had known him for over 20 years. I socialized with rick a little. We were not close in friends, but we were close in age. Even at the christmas parties, which were nice affairs, i never saw rick drunk, ever. I think he was a binge drinker. And whenever his wife was out of the country or town he would get drunk. It was, i think, sort of this, i owe myself won. I never met his wife, but she was apparently so difficult. Her lawyers couldnt stand her. And even the people listening in on the phone they thought rick was abused. If you would told me rick aims was going to be one of the worst traders this country as seen i would have said not the rick aims i knew which was since 1973. Were there other people around you other than rick aims that drew more suspicious thoughts . And have you thought about what makes him stand out against the others in that he seems to not suspect today such an extreme dream . Do you know what happened to his wife now in columbia . I dont have a clue but i would expect she is alive and well and living the good life. They did have one child. Paul is his name. He is in his 20s now. After ricks arrest. But it worked. What we did was we ask, we had the four members of our little task force, sandy, jeanne, and the two jims from the fbi, and six other individuals. Four from cia, two from the fbi. We asked thement them to please privately write down on a piece of paper. Im almost embarrassed to tell the story. The name of five or six people who made them uneasy. Dont forget, were looking for a traitor here. And made them uneasy and individuals they thought we should take a close look at first. Okay. Then we asked them to please put them in rank or door. The one that made you the most uneasy, first place, second, and so on down. As we say, of it not a contest you wanted to win. We took the submissions, we totaled all the numbers, and a real surprise. Rick came out on top. He had the most points 21. And i will toot my own horn here. As i say, i will use genes words all those who voted on sandy gets the gold star. She him them in first place. Now, here we are. We have new short list. Rick wasnt the only one who got more than one or two points. What we did, we looked at the small group first. Eventually it became the primary target. Our primary focus. That is not to say that we didnt continue to look at the rest of the people. By this time about 150 or 2000 on the list. We concentrated on those on the short list. That is sort of how it got sorted out. Thank you. Yeah . So these events were 85, 86, 87, and the task force was formed four people were formed when . 91. 11. I got there in may and i think the bureau guys not at the end of june. A time line question how long did the four of you meet and it follows this yes, before you diser reed in and thought he was prime . Like was it immediately because of it was about a year. About a year. It was less than a year. It was less than a year. Because the eureka moment came a little bit more than a year. Then there was no question. Then there was no question. Well, there wasnt a question to sandy and jeanne. [inaudible] exactly. Then what happened the bureau in 1993 came in after we got that Additional Information. They got the fie is a approval. Then it was truly an investigative affair. Obviously were very involved with the justice department, and the attorney. Because they want evidence to be able to prove espionage charge. Its one of the wore cases in the world you have to try. They have to catch them in the act. But we didnt. How if they vet the members in the program to make sure you werent the mole . There must have been unbelievable. How did they take a chance im curious. I have to say youre the second person to ever ask me the question. I think it is a great question. Because it would be the first i would ask. We had to be repolllied it was crazy. We were fortune that she and i knew almost all the sources. We had been doing different thicks. Things. She was in. So she was unaware of some of these new sources. The current ones. And i was handling all of our activity related to soviet east europeans in africa. Now, i certainly was aware of one of the cases. He was one my branch was responsible for keeping alive. That was cocial who was in lagos nigeria. I was aware of that. Because we had insufficient knowledge but youre correct. We both did have to be repolllied. We had it had been determined that sandy and gene were going to Work Together and the fbi guys were going to come over. So then we got news so you to have a polygraph. I will never forget that day. I said and gene said youll do fine, sandy. I said because thats i have to go first. [laughter] but i got a speeding ticket on that day on the way to the polygraph office. Yes. The five of you the agency aware you were in the middle of it or kept no. We didnt keep it from anybody. And i think that is an important distinction. This was not going to be a paper exercise. Like the first time around. We were looking for a human penetration of cia. Rick was aware of it. We interviewed rick. We cant use that word. The bureau didnt like us to word. We talked to people aware of operations to gather more information about how paper was handled. You know, you can read what it says in the file. Now days an email. You really dont know the interaction of people. Yeah . So two questions. Im surprised that he could walk to the soviet embassy in washington, d. C. , and didnt twhawnt embassy under surveillance. Two, im wondering for there was a moment before he was arrested when he realized you knew who he was. Or if not, what was it like to have to work once you realized it was him you hadnt he had minute arrested yet. How difficult was it to have to deal with him . It was more than difficult, you know, i think most the time were pretty good actor and actresses. That was tough. And i will say personally confession. I smoked during those days. [laughter] and you couldnt spoke in the building. I would go out to the courtyard to have my cigarette. Rick was a very heavy smoker. And because were friends, you know, acquaint he would come over. How are you doing today, sandy. How is the search going . I stopped smoking. [laughter] [applause] i was so afraid i was going to mess it up. So i stopped but, you know, in hindsight i didnt have a thing to worry about. Rick was so arrogant. There was no way that two ladies and add two fbi guys are ever going to catch me. It was really that. And then first part oh the surveillance. Okay. Youre absolutely right. The bureau has coverage. What did rick do . After he leaves the soviet union leaves the soviet embassy. He calls his buddies. I would assume its the Washington Field office i dont know. And said if you see a guy went to the embassy at 1 15 p. M. Today, it is i. Now, he had sort of an excuse for being there. Sort of. We, at cia headquarter, never knew that he walk to the embassy until later during the investigation. You know, when the bureau was basically handling things. However, at the Time Beginning in early 1985, rick was developing, as said, a soviet national. He was an arms control specialist. There was nothing out of the ordinary. Rick doing this job. His contact was his individual was known to fbi headquarter, cia headquarter. He reported the contacts to each during the developmental phases. And that particular day rick was scheduled to have a meeting with him at the may flower. He doesnt want anything to do with this rick was an alias, this american. Please, that means if i have something to do with this american, ive got report it to the kgb. That is not something that most soviet citizens wanted any part of it. He kept ignoring rick. That day scheduled lunch he doesnt show up again. I think it was the third or fourth time. And rick just throws down three or four vodkas. Thats when the drinking little courage. And decides hes going to walk right in to that embassy. And if hes ever asked hell say, you know, i got sick and tired of being stood up by this punk. So i walked in. And guess what . He showed up for the next scheduled meeting. So he had cover for action. As we say. You mentioned that was it the finding of the fbi report and the way it was structured scrowled made or broken your case. Was there an internal path within the cia you would have followed otherwise they would have followed on their own based to the level of effort they already put in. I dont know the answer to that question. I dont know. I only know two things. When we first started this, we always knew we would be able to identify who our traitor was. In our wildest dreams, we never ever imagined that he would be convicted and go to jail. That just wouldnt happen it. We wash would be able to answer the question internally. And the fbi report oh, god, i dont know. It was an official fbi document. Did we make mistakes . Yes. I think probably one thing we talk about it in the book we certainly should done. But we didnt really even think about it. These are our buddies were working with. The fbi and the cia. Theres no question we were surprised at that that final report. How and why it happened was beyond me. I dont know. We probably, when that came out, yeah. We should have done that ahead of time. We didnt. It caused lots of problems. This is about the tv program. I watched the two episodes that were aired is there any way you can see the other episodes . I would like to see them as well. I will say this. There is hope. [laughter] and there is the reason there is hope is because the president of abc announced to the press that the assets will be shown in some format. Whether it is cable, netflix, back on abc proper. Now, he said that one week after he canceled us. But no i have hope. I have hope. Its sort of one of these stay tuned. I did get to see episode three. I have to say its much better than the first two. [laughter] president of abc. Some people are there is still hope. Another thing i will say for any of you who watched it. There is some creative license. Number one, i have never made pancakes in my life. [laughter] i certainly have never prepared a hot breakfast for my family during the week. Ever. And it was always cold cereal for the girls in the car when i took them to the baby sitter. And no milk. Dry. [laughter] might be is sort of the same question. What did you think about the new tv show . Well, it was a world that obviously i had never been a part of and i will laugh though. I wish it happened maybe 20 years ago. A lot more fun. However, for you ladies here, the day i was on good morning america, i had a professional Makeup Artist who traveled with me the entire day. For each it was wonderful. I didnt wash my face for about three days either. And false eye lashes. [laughter] it was fun. Thank you. Youre quite welcome. All right. You said that you checked his bank records, and im just wondering in terms of employee considerablialty and do cia agents sign a release that the no. How to you get access its called the National Intelligence letter or Something Like that. I had to tell you, i didnt know it existed. Simply because i was never involved in personnel security. But it is part of the authority of the cricketer of director of cia. But only in a Counter Intelligence case. In other words, there has to be some us us is us is there was. It included broke age accounts and charactering. They could say no inspect ricks case, they did. The brig thing is i would say part wasnt just the Bank Account Credit card account. And there were Little Things that come up. I cant believe he was so sloppy. Well, i guess i can. He charged an airline ticket. New york to vienna, austria. We were under the rules and regulations as a cia employee you traveled anywhere out of the country whether country whether it was for pleasure you had to get approval from the office of security to do that. Rick hadnt done that. Of all places, vienna, austria. The hot bed of spying east and west. There really little thing like that. As we were going along, its probably like a Police Investigation if youre looking for a murder suspect. You are trying to eliminate rick as your suspect. Every piece of information. You dont want to get the wrong guy. Why did you determine his mote vase for spying motivations for spying . Simple greed. It was money. Now, money though was again a little bit of a twist. Gene and i are absolutely convinced if it not been for him rick never would committed treason. The material things were not important to him. He hadnt told his current wife that he needed a divorce because he promised rosaro now in the state they were getting married in august. So and rick knew he had to divide up his and nans assets. There werent a lot. Basically it was 20,000. Thats really all they needed. And he certainly could have come to the agency we help our employees. And he choose not to. However, he never ever would have been able to keep rosario in the thought she accustom to. Neimanmarcus and up the ladder. Thats all she was concerned with. You think what would be a story that the agency would want out. Why the difficult . Well, first, we didnt start to write circle for treason until nine years after ricks arrest. The first time we put pen to paper. Then it was four years later after several serious medical issues we had the first draft. We submitted to cias publications review board for approval. It was painful. It was pages of black. Three years of back and forth. And i think a big part of the problem were the story of the assets. You know, this is the secret world of spying. However, every one of those guys were gone. And the kgb certainly knew more about the operations that we did because they were able to interrogate them. There were some other things that the agency asked that we remove. They didnt tell us why. Although we sort of had an inkling. Times change. Things that might not have been classified i know but when youre dealing with human beings, things that might not have been classified in, you know, 19 or 2004 there there can be a circumstances that require it the story not be released at that time. So for the most part, i would say we were able sorry. Sorry. For the most part 90 . And the 10 one where circumstances had changed and the others were just stupid. In the sense when you read the book youll see people their first name and the first initial of their last name. I dont know. I think it was like working for an insurance company. That was what was on the rule and regulation. It didnt make any difference if they had not retired under cover or passed away 20 years earlier. Of it hard for them to accept that this kind of material should appear in public. You paid for it. What made you uneasy about him . It was his ego. It was so huge. To the point even his posture changed. He was a tal guy. And always as i said a slob. Slouched like it. He was erect we knew it wasnt coming from cia. His career was a dead end. He was a gs14 and that was it. And of course, all his classmates were rising through the rank. It didnt make any difference. You have never seen anybody with such a frightening ego pfs frightening it was so huge. And that was as i say in the book, that wasnt the rick ames i had known. He was a gentle soul. It was really a personality change. But you have to remember we worked with all of these people. It was a pretty small little group. We had known them for years. Im certain if you ask the same question yourself to your own organization, you know, you can look in your office and say that person would never be a traitor. That person, you know, hopefully. It was really it was really one of those. I know the guys in the bureau said i cant believe were doing this. We said trust us. We could never find spy in the fbi. We dont know the people. We dont know how the game is played. That makes a big difference. A lot is we could never find a spy working for the chinese. The reason we couldnt do that is we dont know the chinese services. We knew the soviet services. We knew them probably better any individual working in them. And you have to at times, you have to think like the opposition. T that old story anybody certain there are a number of you here who saw george c scott. He said i read your book. Thats part of it. Thats what it is. Anymore questions . [inaudible] if all the evidence he was convicted [inaudible] why was he given life instead of the Death Penalty. A good question. Thats all that was on the federal books at the time. I think this went back. Im not positive. But i think it went back years to frank church, the church committee. I think thats what it was. I think it was death only in times of war it might not have been that. However, what did happen because of it. The Death Penalty was put back on the books. And Robert Hanson faced that. Instead i think he got something even worse. He went to super max in colorado. Bad place. Thats the reason. Was rosario a spy . I had to look it up. In all honesty. She was convicted of two things. Espionage was one, and income tax invasion was the other. [laughter] she signed yeah, 1040 she did not know rick was spying until about a year and the stories match on this one. Until about a year and a half before he was arrested. She found some note it was obvious this was it had to do with the soviets. However, she never once asked one question about the thousands of dollars. The bags of cash in the garage. She spent every single cent she could. So and its jo just my personal opinion having listen to the taps. Something is going to happen to her. But thats the reason she got the five years. Okay. [applause] thank you, guys, for coming. Thank you very much. Sandy will be up here. Shes happy to sign copies for her book. If you continue dont have one at the Cash Register at the front. Thank you