It did put people very temporarily in a position with e they should not have been one. I think over time, i think the attitudes have changed so much for me. When the book came out 12 and half years ago, my publisher was emboldened to do but i think there was a fear about putting a gay book out there. And i think there was very shocked reaction to the book even though there was Nothing Shocking within the book, just because it was a happy a book and people were not prepared for the. A book with a gay kids existed but were miserable was okay but if they were happy, thats too radical. I think now that is not as controversial because society has changed in leaps and bounds and sort of the challenges that we saw most recently for two boys kissing elect the last vestiges of a desperate grasp against turning society back when that is not. So the challenges have tapered off would you say . I think so. And i think, also ive written plenty of books with gay characters or gay themes that are not titled boy meets boy and because those are not the targets they dont get challenged very often. There is a silent majority. Nobody ever challenges saunter clutters novels for their gay content but they have visually strong gay characters. They are everywhere, all across our literature. So my books from those two books in particular are the targets just because its convenient. You can judge them without having to read them. But i think the war has already been one, there are so many other books kids are reading, that even if for some reason access was blocked boy meets boy or two boys kissing, they would be able to find things in those books spent a lot of the challenges of dont read the books. They get caught up the websites. There certain websites devoted to siliceous excerpts and that sort of thing. There is one issue that you dont see challenged, at least that i come across, and that is that the trail of violence. Very interesting parents were so concerned about the sex, sex orientation, fantasy, generally do not challenge books because of their violent. I met a childrens author at a book fair last spring who told me that he had a book would have detroit of a character who is extremely who were extremely short shorts and the bulger said you Better Change that but said nothing about a character shown with a severed head. Thats an interesting problem it seems to me we talk about kids exposed to violence on the internet, on bigger games and so forth, but parents amount dont get their hands on that. One of the issues that i came across was some parents feeling deeply alienated from Public Schools and wanting perhaps undermined and or control them, but feeling completely out of control, especially very conservative parents dealing government some of taking over the job of parents. They should be the ones who decide what the kids are exposed to. In this world you can disagree with that but you also almost have to sympathize with their flailing around us really to try to protect their kids as long as they can from things that they find offensive, even though i wouldnt find him offensive. I have three kids. I of six grandchildren. My oldest grandchild is a senior in high school red the book on her own. It wasnt assigned. I told her about this out and she was completely puzzled by it. I said, shes a very mature kid of intellectually and emotionally. I think different parents have different assessments of their childrens majority. So im wondering whether any of you have ever had the opportunity to talk to any parents who did object to your books, and get from them some understand of what was going on . Have you ever had that . I have had the conversation with librarians about it. Some who early on came to me and said but why, why did you name this . It was such a problem, et cetera. So, you know, i think they just see coarse language, explicit sexuality as light a marker of the collapse of the moral code for their children. Thats really what theyre concerned about. As best i can tell. I think, as david said, social change is in social change. The kids occupied the world that they occupy. They have heard the word ass. They no gay guys. Thats just the way that is. But there is a fine acting for a time that i dont think actually existed of some sort of mayberry time. So, for example, you could find objection to anything i write, even my picture books because there are latino characters. Sending remittances home to family in another country. The folks dont speak english and theres a whole group of people who feel really strongly. You were in this country, you must speak english. What are you doing sending money to other countries, et cetera, et cetera. I think its just this reaction, this rage the world that they did not want to see. Whenever ive been confronted with parents, part of it is calling them on not reading the book. Like boy meets boy there was any guy did with me and another student and the interviewer. We were all supposed to passionate and. Just marched out saying i do not like the idea of just the sexualized nature of your writing. Theres no sex in the book. The language, what word do you think they use . And very clear that it was the concept. What they heard about the book that made him think that it was some explicit will when, in fact, there was a romantic comedy. I also have a interesting the one successful conversation ive had with the teacher, heard me talking about the language in my book, and i said heres the deal. I know that people get all upset about that word but as writers we are chosen to write because we choose the exact right word for whatever we are writing. And that you cannot make the argument to me saying something is so wrong and saying something is so wrong. Those are two very Different Things but those are two very different piece of dialogue. They mean to greater things than to say you cant have certain words in your arsenal to deploy in order to get at the truth is just wrong. The teacher came up to me and said ive never heard that argument before. I for plenty of times like they are going to hear it anyway, the book might as well have it. That didnt pass muster with her but the idea the word was tied to the meaning of what was being said was a successful argument for. I read a book on poverty year or so ago by a woman who had been in poverty and who discussed her experience, and a lot of in the book. To the point actually where the word it can lose its power. Want him iraq should have just written at this section in the book about the challenges in schools was what a shame that she did this because teachers are going to not assign this book to their high school kids, and the ig because its really a good book. It has a lot of great insights. So im wondering whether any of you, when youre writing now, having gone through challenges, think about that. As your writing you think about what youre writing about or the language youre using with any sense of how its going to be received by teachers or librarians speak was well, i guess in my first book there are lots of language, lots of cursing. And to me i thought my only job was to basically reflect the line which as i hear it in my neighborhood and to make the character sound authentically grew up and how he grew up in his parents. He would get away with using the kind of like which. For the most part i dont know how much that contributed to the fact that my book, places where protest up and taught in school, the bigger issue i guess regarding language from teachers is the use of the nword. And that has been more offputting to them than the fword or any other work. I think its because of the teachers own, not fear, but just being uncomfortable with the word themselves. So they say i would love to teacher book but you have the nword in it, and i cant. I am a white teacher. Questions are mostly black and latino and i cant teach a book with the nword in a. And its because they feel uncomfortable. To me every time i get a letter like that i just, its a missed opportunity to discuss the work. I think a lot of kids may not even know the history of the word i use to teach africanamerican literature at a college and my students had no idea that that was a negative word. They just knew it like in the hiphop kind of way, or, so i think, you know, the teacher could talk about it. You dont have to use the word but you can get a discussion going to i feel like they are so afraid or so insecure or uncomfortable that they jump, they throw away the whole book instead of addressing it. I guess the nword has been the bigger issue for me. I do think about it. It doesnt stop me but it does give me options. I have a novel coming out in march called burn baby burn. Its set in europe in 1977. I was talking to the panel earlier. A lot of stuff was happening new york city in 1977, son of sam was murdering girls, the city was broke, neighborhoods were burning. The Womens Movement was just bubbling. So it boils down to the words planned parenthood and Birth Control in my novel, and its in there and im just, look at whats happening in congress right now. So im bracing myself for people who will not have read the novel, well just pull out those words, who was overly strong feelings about whether the Womens Movement was positive or negative. I was writing historical fiction so i wrote it the way i taught, the way researched it, and wouldve felt true to the characters in the story. But ive got to tell you, i know whats coming. I can see the light in the tunnel is getting bigger. And you dont enjoy this . I dont because as david said, its very hard to be told that something youve done is vulgar and hurtful to children. I have raised three children. I was a teacher for years, and so ive given my life to children in one way or another. They matter to me. So to be cast in a way that you done something that damage children or her children or makes them course, its hard to carry around with you. Even if you get more sales it really doesnt matter. I didnt enjoy it even when i got all these messages of congratulations from friends and family when it was suspended. It did make me feel real good actually. A kind of left a bad taste in my mouth especially because the book was so badly distorted by the challenges. Then the News Coverage, im an Old Newspaper man, but i have to tell you the News Coverage out there was just a visible. There was one accusation that this parent gave, the book was socialist marxist. They got it in the dallas morning news. The reporter, ive been talking to for weeks about it. Shes been covering this story and she never called me to get my comment. This was a violation of the most fundamental ethics of reporting. And i got in touch with her and i said why didnt you ask me . I said this is ridiculous. Im an old antimarxist from my years as the moscow correspond of the new times. Ive learned what socialism was. I didnt like it very much. In fact, i said on page 88, i even said some things i didnt about socialism that were not very flattering. I did choose churchills which devastated the challenge of because remember he said, democracy is the worst system except for all of the others that have been tried from time to time. The same thing you said could be used about capitalism. I used some arguments against socialism and later but in the book i said marxism was a failed interpreters and. I said, did you read the book even covering the story for weeks, months actually quit she said no, i havent. A reporter for the local public Radio Station did the same thing. And i said, you know, i think youre obligated to give my rebuttal to this. I consider it a smear. Some people would be complemented but im not a socialist or a marxist so i dont really like that smear being in your pages without my opportunity, giving an opportunity to rebut it. So thats the kind of thing you dont really enjoy. Its not a pleasant experience. Except you do get a chance to explain things more, for example, the Highland ParkHigh School Students who were reading my book gathered together after school one day, organized by one of the teachers, to have a skype conversation with me for a long time in which they asked some very good questions about poverty. We had an interesting discussion. So they had much more exposure to the subject than they wouldve had without the. On thursday im going out there and im going to meet with some of the teachers from high school, and parents who have supported the book reading for their kids. Im giving a talk in the evening, not during school hours come in the auditorium of the high school. I offered to meet with an english class that was reading my book currently end they decided, well, its the end of the marking period and they would disrupt our instructional process to have you do that. You do touch on something which is interesting, and the one joy that is to be found is that the book does find its way to the kids who most want to have it and need it and read it. Theres nothing quite so satisfying as seeing kids fight for the right to read. Thats really an encouraging thing. So if there is a silver mining, a Silver Lining come in my mind, i think its about. I think the gatekeepers are corrected to be afraid. There are sort of wrongheaded notions, so many ways around them now. I personally do not believe in the general is a notion that theres no about they refused to allow them to be who they were. Those parents are not the best guardians of the reading. Its great that there is this amazing availability of books far beyond what youre allowed to read in class to which you are allowed to bring hope and if you think that, talking about, planned parenthood and Birth Control. That fear you have that sort of the train, thats the reason to keep it in the book. Thats the only part we have writers have is to give context, to give the accuracy and to give truth. And again even if were going to be found for it we do know it gets across an effective people are attacking us for it does mean that to your earlier question about holding back, its interesting, the only time ive ever held back was actually whawith china because i did it consciously, being very savvy to the way things work, its ever that the company so there is that. It made sense. But i deliberately did not uncharacteristically use the fbomb or any language there because i knew that historically gay books are usually challenged by people and they would use the smokescreen of challenging it for the language. Because they did want to be seen as homophobe so they would be no, no, no, i dont mind is about a gay person. Look on page 33. So i wanted to deny that person any legitimate grounds for banning the book are protesting the book, except for the fact that the characters were gay. And that worked. Id like to get everybody to explore further what david said about Opening Doors into other parts of experience. Is that why young adults, how do you define young adult, by the way . What age range is at . In which the importance of books take yours for them, would you say . Whats good about them . They teach this stuff so im just figures to be a young adult was synonymous with a teenager. Now why it is change and has become an adult genre as well because it is fiction that includes teenagers but its not fiction that is exclusively for teenagers but it is age 13 to eight however old the oldest reader is, probably pretty old. Almost as old as me. Even older, if you can imagine. I think that is the exciting thing about literature is we catch people want their identities are forming, and then they stick with it now. And continue to export because the teenagers were exploring, spoiler alert, dont stop when you turn 20. That questions of who you are, who you love, what your role in this world is, thats not just about adolescence. That is about life and thats what were writing about. We are telling the origin stories. We are telling where are these fears and conquering fears come from and that has such power to get. Does anybody else want to chime in on this . Its a big question. They always say young adults is, provides, what was it windows and mirrors . Are mirrors and windows. For me i always as a kid i always wanted the mayor because i never found any book related to my life or that i could see myself in. They just did not exist. All the books where the character looked like me, they were either books about chalets osha covers. Never any think its going up into city point double dutch having fun. I never saw myself. For me i always wanted to write something that was going to be a mayor for me but also a mirror for lots of kids like me who grew up kind of like me. Thats what i think young adult is committed to providing that mayomayor or providing that went into someone elses life. Thats what i strive to do. Accurately reflect the world that i see. Its funny because i was just interviewed this afternoon on this very topic, and boy, it gets slippery trying to decide if the topic, isnt age of antagonist . Because all those lines have blurred and you can really write about difficult things even to the youngest reader. Its something and then he wants, but for me its an expression to the questions i had growing up that were not answered. And the questions that shaped me and followed all the way to now. You know, when im writing, im writing about place. What were the things that were not answered . What with the aches that i carried with me . And i said that in more modern times but it is essentially those questions that felt like wholes spewed so its autobiographical to some degree . Yeah, although the characters are completely made up and the situations. Its like creating frankenstein. Im taking pieces from everybody. Ill take your gossiping with your egomania with your good looks, and ill put you up and i have a new person. Thats kind of outfit works. I knew that all our because i am seeking revenge. But no, i know who they are but i am we orchestrated the whole thing. I think it might be a good time to start hearing from the audience, dont you . And have some questions for the panel. The rule is, theres a rule, wait for the mic because its been recorded and you will be selected not by me. Im keeping this one, okay. Is it on . Sorry. Its so weird we are here at and books week and i feel like i need to start rather than a question but with an apology. One of the things speaking with coe earlier is i said id a middle School Teacher and i have been sending them, all banned books. We celebrate banned books to read every book that i can get my hands on that i love. I have your book, i have your book, i have your book all in specific bands called tough issues, challenging issues, please conference with me before you take the book out. I realize what you talk about is a soft censorship as im listening im thinking im softly censoring books, where am i . Like my concern becomes how do i do with parents that they not go to challenge books because, ive read all the books and i know whats there and want to be able to sell the books probably take it. So the first thing is i apologize if im so not adding to the problem that really would like your take on what do we do as teachers to honor all books and make sure that we are also, i do want to say covering ourselves, but i guess thats what im asking. I think the problem with doing what you did, although comes from the right place, is that whenever we talk about tough issues, rough stuff, edgy, my least favorite word, that always presupposes the person who is not going through it. And the message you are sending is if this happened to you, you are somehow different. And that you are, like basically living a life that is much harder than anybody elses. And may be but thats not the messaging we want to send. Theres an amazing essay about this, about how you have to we imagine your notion of what the reader is. Because usually when we talk about the reader we are defaulting to the innocent usually why, usually privileged child who was reading about things that they dont know. We have to start thinking about the reader as being the kid in the class was reading about the thing that is at issue to them. Its life come and we have to make sure the messaging sort of respects that. And again i think the easiest way i think to do is just to booktalk, devoid of the bends down, to go to the books and see what they are about. Dont label them but just, because you do want to give warnings about the kids of what theyre getting into but thats what to do is choose which all of the books are discussed so you are not singling out anything that indicates can make informed decisions about what theyre ready for a, what might be for them. Thats what i would think. It seems to me that a lot of the books i read, young adult books, speak to kids in whatever going to even if the characters are not exactly like them, that particular, its like good literature, particular rises to the universal. So that kids see something of themselves in these characters come and their interaction inteh other kids, with repairs and so forth. So ethnicity, Sexual Orientation may not be theres a lot of other things are theirs. I think that generates a sense of empathy that does cross those more superficial boundaries. Thats what i would say. Just as a grandfather reading these books. But i mean, to your credit you have the books in your class. That is the most important thing. That most people which is shy away from doing that to begin with so that is the most important step. I feel the same way about making certain books other, or i get the expense whether in the africanamerican experience or the street literature or later in the back of the library under urban books. I was at a panel and one of the librarians in the audience said she put a little red sticker on all the books about black people so that the kids to want to find those books can find an easier. Im like, it just makes, it just, i couldnt who is so terrible. It just makes us feel like other. I . I guess students going through the tough issues come and makes them feel like other. So makes them up. I think booktalk is great thing and its a great skill to practice. Not only about the kids book talking to each other about what they have read. Public libraries and it is a lot. Abaco and theres, you do, latino section, turkey, its hispanic heritage month so what can i say about this. Theres a little table and we all or and ago a way until may 5 or whatever. Thats the same thing with black history month. You never see the book out loud, about us from any other time. They may have a Valentine Day support within never are books about or beach reading or anything else. Anything. Its like that one little time of year they trot out our books and then they put him back a way somewhere and thats it. I want to say ive also had wonderful librarians and teachers who dutifully. But these are just some of the things that you see. Their argument is a we want our patrons to find a book that they feel attached to, and so on. Our argument is, we would like everybody to find the book just universal. Another question . I just wanted to mention one thing about this, that in high schools i look at as a result of the challenges, one of the things, the schools have done is to provide parents with more information about the readings that are coming up in elective courses, and this was requested by parents so that they would be better informed and to decide whether they want their children to take those courses or not. This is particularly the case in advanced placement courses. Now, of course, advanced placement english courses are supposed to be collegelevel, which suggests that the readings should be collegelevel. To restrict those courses to readings that are not, that are somehow inappropriate by the parents of definition, is to redefine the courses it seems to me. One of the arguments that i made in the Highland Park case when they were considering the working poor for this coming year because they had to go through a whole vetting process and so forth, and i just voluntarily told of the Parents Group that was advocating the use of the book to take a look at the list of universities that have used the book in freshman reading, common reading, and also integrates courses from economics to sociology to political science, so forth, which demonstrates that the book is considered appropriate for collegelevel. Therefore, if youre going to have a collegelevel course in high school, how can you object to that book or any of the others that are assigned actually . What are the limits in college but nothing really except relevance. Junior, importance on the subject or well done or whatever, whatever the criteria are. The other thing that is wise to remind some of the parents about is that many teachers or parents your data that kids who have gone through school and they have also been attentive to the readings that the kids have done, and ive talked to a teacher in michigan whose daughter is in college now. She said one of the divide she felt between her and the parent who were objecting to beloved by Toni Morrison in wonderland by graham swift was the understanding of the maturity of 17yearolds, and her experience as a mother of a girl who had gone through that particular phase of life led her to deal that kids that age, especially those who sign up for ap english, could certain handle those books. Especially beloved as you all know, brilliant book, i think its one of the best american novels of our time. Its not easy to read. Its nonlinear. Its challenging. Toni morrison does lead you by the hand. As the reader to parachute into the middle of a story and have to put it together, which is good because when the reader participates in the process, you feel that you had a role in the creativity. And i think that that book could easily be read by most High School Juniors or seniors without the guidance of a good teacher. And thats true i think with a lot of these challenging books, that is, and i mean challenging intellectually and emotionally. Kids benefit, i think, from being in a classroom where a good teacher can lead them through an understanding and a discussion. Its a much richer experience. To contribute much more to their growing process that if they simply talk about them with their peers or even at home. And i think that argues for doing this kind of literature in school. When the michigan case blew up, there were Many School Board meetings where people debated the value of beloved and water land and so forth, and students who were recent graduates of the high school came back from college to testify on behalf of of this curriculum, arguing that they found themselves much better prepared than their peers when they went to college because of visa teachers and these books. The teachers were really stunned in a very pleasant way at the kind of support they got from the community. So that was a Silver Lining. But i think it demonstrates the value of the structured discussion in a class of books that may not be so easy to read, and i dont just mean because of the language but because of the subject. My book, the working poor does have a chapter which i discuss sexual abuse of a chilly, not because i ask anybody about it but because i said the people i was anything, tell me about your childhood. And many women, i think most women i interviewed at some point in the course of our interview, sometimes the first interview, sometimes later, told me they had been abused. They told me that i think because they thought it was an important explanation of the vulnerabilities they felt, the loss of selfesteem, the inability to form relationships, the disassociative reaction to the head, the emotional shutdowns and so forth are i think this happens across socioeconomic lines. Its not just among the poor, the people who are poor dont have the wherewithal to get professional help, and often they are very lonely with these problems. So for them it can be extremely debilitating. And i include it because it kept coming up again and again and again. I said to my wife, who is a social worker, why, i dont understand why women are telling me this. Im a stranger. They dont know me. And she wisely said, thats the reason. They feel free to kill you because you are a stranger and you dont know their families. But my question to myself after this book challenge out there was, okay, how many kids in these classes were sexually abused as little children . How many of their parents were sexually abused . And other teachers prepared to do with that particular issue, and how do they prepare their students for reading this reticular section, which can activate lots of strong emotions . Because ptsd is a very particular aftermath of sexual abuse. So thats i think an important question that teachers have to ask themselves when the user book is really written for adults. Its not written for kids, unlike their books. So im not pitching down to a younger age. Im writing basically for myself. I write the book the way i would like to read it. But there are issues, with issues there, and i think its important for teachers who are after all professionals and they are trained to think about that as they assign these readings. I was going to say i think thats true for books written for children as well. Lots of books deal with tough, but issues that are tough but actually are happening to kids. Those kinds of issues can come up with any book. I have a couple of questions, picking up on some things that you said. One is that parents are generally the ones who protest, are concerned about protecting their children. So how can you talk to these parents and put their fears at rest and let them let their children have, you know, a broad reading experience . And then in terms of the teachers, we have to face the fact that all teachers are good, perceptive, sensitive people. And so what should be done in terms of teacher training so that they will be better equipped to deal with these books . These are really good questions. Im trying to pass i mean, again, i think for the parents, ill take that one first. It is entering a dialogue about their truly afraid of, and about what they think the book is doing, and given the context of the book and talking about sort of if we can come talk about the personal place it came from, talking about the personal reaction people have had to bed and trying to make it not a theoretical challenge but a personal one. Again, will that work . Probably nine out of 10 it will not your butt and much interesting take away. And again thats the best you can do. I think certainly i can give example before, when you can engage trying to find a nature of the offense, especially as the first has not read the book, is important because then you can say, again, its that language, its not system its not that. And again for me very rarely will it. Want to come right out and say i dont want to join this Community Reading about gave people. There is this social taboo in some places about rampant open homophobia. So it is sort of collect them all that and sort of thing okay, what are you really objecting to . And so trying to force the issue. And then if you can talk of all see about the issue, talk honestly about where that comes from. I can, it is rare you get that opportunity. And quite honestly, i mean come to think im on many censorship battles with many authors who have been centered in different ways. After the end of the day the best person to talk to the members of the community are other members of the community. Nobody kicks in once the offer to come and talk because we dont know their lives, we dont know their community. It is much better when other people do know the person whos lodging the complaint are the ones to talk to them because they can talk them through it in a much less antagonistic way because they are not this other person coming from another place. Well, i would say, you know, that books from the parents perspective, given where we are in this digital age, books are the least of the problem, really. But its the thing you can grab onto. And Windows School gives the book its a blessing or the teacher basically says you have to read this four course, parents who dont like it are much more likely to object to that than to the environment of internet, video games, that they really have trouble controlling. The father who objected to water land and beloved told me that he controlled the screens at home pretty carefully for his children. But what happens when they go to friends houses . What happens when they get their own iphone . What happens next year when his daughter goes to college . So i think theres a certain lack of realism among some of the parents who try to create an artificial environment in which their kids dont have contact with ideas for situations, fictionally, that theyre going to have contact with anyway. So my answer would be open discussion and dialogue, freewheeling arguments at home. Some parents are able to do that in some or not. As i mentioned in the michigan case, the book of challenges provoked a lot of that discussion at home, and it was great but those were parents who supported Children Reading the books, not parents who objected to the. That kind of parenting, you know, is a way of showing your child respect. One of the things i heard from a High School Student in michigan again and again was a sense of, who in these classes whose books are been taken away, was a sense of outrage that they were not respected, that their maturity was treated dismissively. I mean, who are these parents to tell us what they are not even our parents, what we can read. They are basically trying to impose their views on the rest of us. We are mature enough to handle this, especially when ms. Miller or mr. Reid guide us through the discussions. So theres, i think a parent, theres a lesson here which is to always treat your child with respect. That doesnt mean you have boundaries or limits but it means that you basically trust your child to exercise his or her kind of inner gyroscope of values that you presumably have introduced. And thats really what matters, not trying to control the external environment. On teachers, i think there really is room, and i dont know how much about what teacher training does in this but i think there is room for serious coursework and training on how to deal with literature that is, you know, that is likely to be challenged by conservative parents. My mother was an english teacher, and she taught chaucer, and i dont remember come at a live in a fairly conservative towdown but i dont remember her ever telling me that chaucers autolink which was the topic of dispute from parents. I guess maybe they didnt understand. They didnt know what it meant. I wish she were still around so i could have a conversation with her about all this because i think would be really interesting to hear from, which he teach beloved, for example . She had Great Respect for her students, some of whom still get in touch with me you know, decades later to see how much they loved her as a teacher. She was tough on them. They admire that years later. At the time they dont like it so much. I think, i would think she would do that, teach that kind of stuff because its challenging. Its difficult. It requires intellectual capability. It requires students to rise to a higher level of understanding in literary ability. And i think thats really what its about but youre right that not all teachers are equipped to do that. And so i dont have a nice, neat answer. My guess is teachers to dont feel equipped to do it dont do it. We dont know what isnt done. Thats the problem. We know what is done and what runs up against the challenges. We dont know what isnt so we dont know what books are not ordered by the librarians. We dont know which ones dont get in. Im sure theres a lot of soft censorship behind the scenes. Okay, one more question and the quick answer. I have a question maybe for coe but maybe for a book on how you feel about the medium of literature, like david, he made a comment earlier on he was focus on teachers who come after do with the stress of defending band and challenged books have you said to quote drop to lower levels of teaching one teacher, yeah. So theres a connection between socioeconomic standing or privilege and access to books or interest in books arent a special on a global scale letters himself its a wonder try to speak to these communities are providing mirrors, do you have like tension with a meeting of literature . Does that make sense . Kind of does. I think that when were talking to like innercity or those kind of communities, do they have trouble just with the concept of literature in general, is that what youre asking . Or with books in general . Well, we have to wrap this up. If you can answer quickly and coe can answer quickly. Ive been told 8 30 is the bewitching moment. Can you explain your question or clarify it speak with you, when you said drop to lower levels of teaching no, that was just because the nonadvanced placement english versus in that particular school did not use books that were likely to be challenged by parents. So he was not, he did need to assign books again had nothing to do with ethnic minority or anything. Virtually all white, i would say its all white but majority white school, but the students who were not taking advanced placement courses were reading more traditional classics, shakespeare and so forth. So they were likely to be challenged. So the more modern books such as beloved were preserved for the ap courses, and he was not, so he wasn was in a zone what wasy to want to use books that were going to raise the hackles of social conservatives. In that particular english department. I guess were out of time, right speak with we will be here to sign. Am pleased to support so buy our books. There are lots of other books to buy, too. Thanks very much for coming. [applause] good job. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] booktv is on facebook or like us to get publishing news, scheduled updates, behind the scenes pictures and videos, author information and to talk directly with others during our live programs. Facebook. Com booktv. And now joining us on booktv, john goodman of the independent institute. First of all, what is the independent institute and what do you do for a living . It is a think tank and i a think tank and registered my own think tank called the goodman is to do. We work very closely together, and im an economist, and my focus is on public policy. Where are you based . I am in dallas but we have a virtual think tank and i could be anywhere. John goodman youve written about health care for quite a while. Is that a fair statement speak was buried there. Spent years your most recent book, a better Choice Healthcare Solutions for america. The afford what your act is now the law of the land, isnt it . It is. This