Transcripts For CSPAN2 Banking CEOs Testify On Regulations And Oversight - Part 3 20220926

Brief recess with more questions including crypto currency, Cyber Security and hiring practices. They also touched on the economy and inflation. This is an hour and 45 minutes. The committee will come to order. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from guam, mister sam nicholas for five minutes, welcome. Thank you mister chairman, can you hear me okay . Thank you. Thank you mister chairman. I want to first begin by recognizing miss fraser and citigroup, the conversation im going to have to actually involves all the panelists but i wanted to begin with her company and herself as based on our research it looks like citigroup pays five times more in interest to its depositors than the rest of the individuals sitting at the table. Miss fraser if upcorrect your deposits are yielding. 05 percent interestrate . We believe we have, well we have a variety of different deposit products and we need them to be competitive and fair. The information i have here on your basic account policy is a. 05 percent Interest Rate, is that correct . We have one of our deposit products, that is correct. And for the rest of the panel is it fair to say that my numbers here are accurate andthe remainder of you are paying about 0. 01 percent on deposits . That is inaccurate. Could you please clarify than the figure. Are basic pays about the same as citigroups, five basis points or so but we have many products that pay substantially more. And it varies. I dont know of any that pay zero. So can we clarify this and go across the board from left to right and just on the record for the American People, tell us what your basic standard savings deposit is currently yielding in your institutions . Mister chairman, im requesting the panel to respond. Lets go from left to right. We have a variety of products that range from five basis points to 200 basis points depending on the size of the deposit. The general public accounts are what im talking about,the majority of your deposits, what are they yielding . The general retail deposit would be at the lower end of that range and there are also tvs available in turn depositing. Ilcan we go across the board please chairman . The same,. 05. 5 basis points with tdifferent products yieldingmore depending on several factors. Pretty much the same as everybody else. Miss fraser. Yes, were in the same range. Mister moynahan, we have a range of projects which cover the same range of my colleagues. We have a very similar approach. I believe we are in the same range. Thank you so much mister chairman. As inflation is battering our public and as Interest Rates oare rising and causing credit card Interest Rates to go up and general consumer reInterest Rates to go up its just an acrosstheboard devastation for the americanpublic. We have had it on the record earlier today there is quote more money in their accounts and all of these Financial Institutions in other words theres a lot more deposits being held by these institutions as Interest Rates are rising. One of the only over linings and a rising Interest Rate environment is that savers are supposed to be rewarded for their savings. Were supposed to see the interest they earn on their savings accounts and get what we have here is the fed funds rate thats currently mister chairman at 2. 5 percent on the record that is coming at 2. 5 percent with our depository institutions staying between. 01 percent and. 05 percent. Which means that on risk free money being put to the fed there ranging anywhere between 2. 5 percent interest to 2. 49 percent interest on the deposits of their customers. So i wanted to ask acrosstheboard quickly mister chairman can they confirm whether or not theyre going to be increasing the Interest Rate that theyre paying to their depositors at anytime soon . You are the question. We would expect to continue to monitor rates and raise rates as appropriate given what is going on with the competition. The same, we expect to raise over time. We expect them to go up soon. Yes we will. Mister moynahan. Rates will go up in the future. Mister rogers. And mister shaw. The same. Youll back mister chairman, bank you. The gentlemans time is expired. The chairrecognizes the gentleman from North Carolina , you are now recognized for five minutes. In 60 minutes on sunday President Biden tried to downplay the negative impact of a 40 year high inflation. He basically said 8. 3 Percent Inflation isnt that bad because it hasnt spiked recently. As you also know the Second Quarter gdp was negative for the second consecutive quarter which is the textbook definition of a recession. Of course President Biden is trying to deny this as well. As the leaders of Financial Institutions that deal with American Consumers every day id like to ask you brief questions to gauge the Financial Health of the average American Consumer and for the lack of time to stick with North Carolina institutions, Mister Rogers of truist and mister of bank of america. And yes, sir noor a sentence or less. Proceedings decreasing . Consumer savings are quite stable at this puncher after having grown for quite a few months. Mister moynihan. Consumer deposits are stable. Are they using more credit than they were a yearago . Are consumers are starting to access more credit, particularly on their credit cards. Mister moynihan. Credit card balances have grown since last year but theyre back to prepandemic levels. When you factor in inflation are consumers real wages down west and mark. If you factor in inflation for most consumers real wages would be down. Real wages are down, thank you mister moynahan on the one year basis, the inflation rate exceeds the wage growth. Has the number of consumers with access to say 1000 foremergency at that going up or down . Consumers currently have more in their checking accounts so the opportunity to go up by purchasing a savings account has increased during the last few years. Mister moynihan. Consumer deposits in their accounts are multiples of where they were prepandemic. Do you think theeconomy will get worse before it gets better . Mister moynihan. I said earlier that our experts have positive gdp growth this quarter and negative gdp growth for the next couple of quarters. Thats their basic assumption on the research we have. Mister rogers. We have a very similar forecast. We see the state of our economy is not good. President bidens failed economic policies have made life worse for working families in North Carolina and across the country according to the Federal Reserve of state lewis the personal savings rate has s been declining since march of f last year and its the lowest rv since 2008. A brief survey said 60 percent of respondents have been in more Credit Card Debt that over the last year. And according to the Federal Reserve Household Debt surpassed 16 trillion for the First Time Ever in the Second Quarter. According to the Census Bureau the median Household Incomes have remained stagnant or declined a few years in a row. According to bank rates 56 percent of americans cannot cover a 1000 emergency expense with savings anymore. A recent abc news poll found that 69 percent of respondents said they think the us economy is getting worse. So bottom line, americans are buying less, earning less, saving less while paying more for their daily life as in 100 counties in North Carolina. Life seems to have gotten worse under President Biden and i believeits time he admits it thank you for your time. I healed back. Hathe gentleman from n,illinois Mister Kasten who is also the vice chair of the subcommittee on investors protection, entrepreneurship and Capital Markets is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair and thank you all for a long day. One what it the statement i want to start with which is obvious but all of you do a wonderful job and iappreciate your work to minimize the loss to Equity Capital and honoring your obligations to shareholders. If any of you disagree please chime in but i want tostart because i want to focus on risk and return. Two years ago mister diamond, ms. Fraser, mister moynahan and the Senate Banking committee, senator warren asked you all i believe essentially to acknowledge that you are using new tools and services to gallic, gauge climate risk to your portfolios. I want to focus on you mister sharp because you have a large interest in mortgage but in the two years since our you changing your lending, your diligence standards for properties exposed to climate risk. Wildfires, forest fires. Youve had two years to get those rests, have you changed your standards . Its something we talk a lot about and weve always factored some of those risks into the properties we finance. So it continues to be something that we talk about. Whether or not weve specifically changed the magnitude of that, that i cant answer right now. I dont mean it is a critical question. Theres been data suggesting there is a disproportionate flow of those mortgages to danny and freddie and those high risk areas and if you dont know off the top of your head we can followup offline but theres been recording on that and id like to see the data because its obviously a concern if ofwe are movingrests on to the taxpayers. We can certainly go back and look at it with you. Shifting to the return side, mister diamond i think this is a dumb question but im sure youll tell me if it is. Would you support legislation that compels you to preferentially invest in industries that were struggling to attract capital . I would not. Okay. I assumed that would be your answer. I ask that because over the last 12 years the entire oil and gas Energy Sector is running at seven times multiple and tesla, first energy, all the leading lights of the clean Energy Running at 10 times that number for the most part and yet we are seeing a lot of my colleagues suggest that we should prevent the Financial Sector from investing in areas that are getting high returns out of some completely bastardized theory of worldcapitalism, whatever that means. The state Financial Officers foundation, a rightwing backed group is intentionally promoting that they are pushing state legislation across the country and as recently as july west virginias treasurer announced he was canceling millions of dollars in state contracts the five banks including yours and wells fargo. I think you said their ne analysis was disconnected from the facts. Wells fargo said you disagreed with the decision. Subsequent to thatfederated hermes announced they are no longer going to fund this group. As of a few weeks ago j. P. Morgan and wells fargo were unfunding this state financial organization. Are you still providing resources to this organization that is spreading policies encouraging you to us and in places that are struggling to attract capital. Let me get back to you and i look at it if you i can. Is wells fargo still supporting the stateFinancial Officers foundation . I dont know but i will look at it o. Can either of you you will not continue to fund an organization spreading disinformation that is blocking the capital sector from freely allocating capital. I wont commituntil i read something but if that were true id probablycancel it. Mister scharf. I agree with mister diamond. The only people supporting this are groups with active agendas. I want to see you continue to minimize equity risk. I want to see you continue to earn shareholder returns and leave a better planet for our kids. I would hope that youd all Work Together with us on that. Thank you and i yield back. The gentleman from m indiana mister hollingsworth is now recognized for five minutes. Good afternoon, im excited to be here with each of you. Before i get started Mister Moynihan i want to let you know , she has been my team member for a couple of years now buton monday she becomes a bank of America Team Member aboutwhich she is very excited soi hope youll take good care of her and recognize the talent she has shown in her office, im sure she will do the same at bank of america. Her father already works for us. You should have told us. I appreciate the opportunity to chat about these issues. What im interested in is the state of the economy but i abwant to delve deeper into this. We are as of today at a truly unprecedented pace unwinding the quantitative easing as well as the accommodative Monetary Policy the last couple of years. Those the fed continues to talk about soft landings, i worry that this pace will be to a harder landing then perhaps they are yet forecasting. But there are a couple of ballots to that. One very strong corporate Balance Sheets, earnings have been relatively resilient but Balance Sheet are better than they ever been in the s p 500. Balance sheets are better than they quite literally ever been and you touched on this but one thing i continue to notice is the tremendous amount of savings that households have in excess of the savings they had in 2019. Have you begun to see households mobilizing that or not begun to see them mobilize that because this is important to real underlying economic demands Going Forward and the fate of some of the extra costs that are being incurred and with all due respect to mister but theres a difference between a decline in savings rate and a decline in the level of savings so im curious to start with you Mister Moynihan and im asked mister diamond about the same thing. Consumers have multiples of the amount of money they had prepandemic and that amount is stable right now. It has been growing for the last year and a half of the last Stimulus Group growing, growing up in tax time, came down a little bit when they faced expectation andnow its back up so its basically stable. We put out data from our institute every month so you can see it. Thank you, mister diamond. High savings, jobs available, job rate is going up at the lower end. Even that going up a little bit is so much lower than theyve been in 50 years. Even when we go to recession but you have to ask later,not right now. The bad news is later. Mister fraser. Similarly its always a little dangerous to work out averages from what we see across the spectrum but stability in the deposits and the rate is still an elevated. And equally important, still low Credit Credit losses across the board. I would assume the controller has been the last couple of years blocking in very low rates mixing in their maturity ladders to make sure theydont face upcoming maturities. Are the three of you seeing any stress incorporates with higher rates . Not even in the sponsored high leverage scenarios . In the markets. Not for those types of credits but its harder to transact. One of the things we continue to talk about up here is ensuring that we are investing enough in research and development. We want to maintain the Significant Competitive advantage we have in developing new technologies whether thats at Research Institutions through the country or in innovative smart companies. What weve noticed is dc funding is declining dramatically and in some estimates theres 1 trillion gap between what we funded in the last five years and where what were likely to find in the next five years and some of that is reluctance of companies to recognize valuations versus what they might have been x months ago but i wonder if you seen an uptick in earliers answer backed funds seeking loans instead of equity transactions and the values there seem versus what they were before. Anybody want to comment we havent seen evidence but it is every day. You generally dont borrow money so youre not going to see a lot of that. I heard more were inclined to do so rather than recognized significant down rounds. With that illyield back. The gentlewoman from massachusetts, miss presley sswho is also the vice chair of the subcommittee on Consumer Protection and Financial Institutions is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair for holding this critical hearing and ensuring oversight laser priority to this committee. While we have the cfo in front of us i want to take a moment for the official record to center that which is most important and that is the workers. The bank tellers who work day in and day out processing transactions to keep facilities clean and safe. Often i think their labor is lost in these hearings or worse used as cover up for talking points. Your workers deserve better and they deserve to be respected. Mister sharf, workers at wells fargohave been advocating for a greater voice on the job for years. For the record will you commit to neutrality in Workers Organizing efforts e and ensure workers who speak out do not face retaliation and im looking for a yes, sir number. We believe that we are best in a direct relationship with them. Is that a yes, sir no . When you commit to neutrality in the Workers Organizing efforts and ensure workerswho speak out do not face retaliation . Yes, sir no. We will follow the law m. Im going to reclaim my time. I was looking for a yes, sir no on whether or not you will commit to neutrality in the Workers Organizing effort and ensure workers speak out do not face retaliation after years of scandals and billions of dollars in fines you all your employees accountability. If there had been a union perhaps the toxic offseason behaviors driving these scandals would not have gone unchecked for so long. I introduced the greatest supervision in banking act to shine a light on working conditions for employees for pay equity rule accountability for workplace are asked. Congress must pass this bill to support workers and vital would require transparency on meaningful Consumer Protection ive been having a hard time keeping track of the various illegal actions that have taken place here by those represented on this Panel Including your own bank so lets establish a few things for the record. On july 28 of this year that ccn be announced your bank had illegally accessed customers credit reports and opened checking and savings accounts, credit cards and lines of credit without those customers permission. Mister cecere, how many accountswere opened without customers permission . Thank you for the permission. We regret and take full responsibility that even one customer or accountwould have been opened in an inappropriate fashion. Its against not only our standards and procedures but core ethics. This relates to a fiveyear opportunity y that dates back to 2010 and during that time frame we identified 342 accounts with 001 percent of accounts. 342 accounts and that was going to be my next question, do you take full responsibility for these violations of the law . We do. You should, thank you. The investigation certainly did tell a disturbing topdown story of failure. Your bank imposed failed goals on employees and this pressure was leading employees to unlawful behavior. This report i believe is your employees have the opportunity to collectively bargain and thats not limited to just your recent scandal. Itgoes for every bank present so again for the record i would like a response from the entire panel. For all witnesses, please raise your hand if youre willing to commit to noninterference in any of your employees efforts to organize a union and ill begin right to left here, my right. Ofmister cecere, yes, sir no. We believe in dealing with directly with the employees. Im sorry im runningout of time, will you raise a hand if you agree to not interfere . . We would not retaliate. So raise your hand. Mister the mark, can you raise your hand if youre willing to commit to noninterference in any of the employees efforts, i dont need to go one person at a time. This is an easy question. Please raise your hand. I cant raise my hand but we wouldnt interfere. Ill keep going. Yourecommitting to noninterference, mister diamond. Okay, thank you for your transparency on the record that you will interfere. Ms. Fraser will you interfere show of hands for yes, sir no. We certainly will not retaliate. We will expect to have an active conversation. Out take that as a yes, thank you for your transparency. Thank you mister frazier, Mister Moynihan, will you interfere . We will deal directly. Show of hands, Mister Rogersand mister moynahan could you raise your hand . Ill answer the question, we will agree to abide by the law and not retaliate against. Employees. We will have listened to our teammates and will not retaliate h. We will listen and not retaliate. Your workers are watching and demandaccountability. I yelled back. The gentleman from tennessee mister rose is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairwoman waters and Ranking Member mchenry for holding this hearing. Its important we conduct oversight of the nations largest banks particularly in this moment when many are bending to progressive activists and providing access to Financial Services for legally operating businesses. Mister diamond you previously testified before the committee in may 2021 there are certain areas where you have quote, come back because the risk legal or regulatory is too high to do business. I have become aware of bank denial letters that j. P. Morgan for the record and others of the banks here today have sent to independent atm operators where j. P. Morgan states that they have a policy in place where the bank does not bank private atm operators and madam chair, for the record i would like to enter into the record an article from the twall street journal from february 19 of this year that is entitled gas station atms are a banking battleground, subtitled banks worried about the risk are turningaway the owners of independent atms, a lifeline to the under banked. Without objection. The previous iteration of the federal Financial Institution Examination Council Bank Secrecy Act manual categorized the entire independent atm industry as high risk. The new version released in december 2021 at the, after that hastening of many members of a bipartisan basis , bipartisan nature of this committee states that not all independent atm owner or ha operator customers pose the same risk and not all independent atm owner or operator customers are automatically higher risk. Additionally asked hopefully you are all aware on july 6 all of the f fic agencies issued a statement saying that independent atm operators are not categorically high risk. And again madam chair id like to enter a copy of that release statement for the record. Without objection, so ordered. So mister diamond, why are you still, or why is the bank still categorically denying access to Financial Services. For anentire legally operating industry . I dont like when i hear we are doing all industry, i n think thats a mistake e. You should evaluate each customer one by one. I dontknow if thats true. I do know that its march when we stop banking. I guess my next question was would you permit to taking a look at the banks policy with respect to these customers . Of course. To save time but for the record i would appreciate if the rest of you would respond to the question of whether you will take a fresh look in light of this new guidance at whatever policies you have in place with respect to this class of customers, would you commit to giving us a review of your policies on that . Very good. And so im concerned about this issue in a broader context which is other places where your banks are not banking legally operating businesses so that is an area of heightened concern. I hope you will be mindful of that, how important that is an particularly when youre serving customers that are a lifeline to Financial Services or the under banked so thank you for that commitment. Mister moynihan i want to shift for a moment. But but i can assure you in my district that everyone has access to Financial Services. I bet you have t a bank account. I do is well and can readily access funds h to pay for goods and services but not everyone has that luxury. If you unlimited cash and cash options to pay for food and other necessities you end up making more difficult to survive for our most vulnerable populations. So im wondering if you and bank of america, why do you think it is okay to make it more difficult to be poor . Ri what would you tell someone who gets their pay in cash and twobe walks through the Grocery Store that does not accept cash under your ideal society . I take a couple things. One is between today and tomorrow at this time 200 Million Company cashback idea of eliminating cash is when people dont need to use cash and a safer and more secure. With multiple needs to do it. Anybody can get a bank account ifdo their proper defecation, fe dollars a month allows syndicate cashed out of the atms, go into a branch, do anything you arent i could do there. The context isif how do we save money and the industry for people like yourself or companies in terms of moving cash. Thank you i yield back, madam chair. The gentleman from new jersey mr. Gottheimer whos also the vice chair of the subcommittee on National Security, International Development and Monetary Policy is now recognize for five minutes. Thank you, chairwoman eshoo for all the witnesses for being herere thank you all witnesses for being here. The Financial Services and make it a street directly supports more than 75,000 jobs in new jersey. Provides local Small Businesses with the capitol they need to create thousands more. I want you to know that im grateful, and thank you for doing business in new jersey. Mr. Dimon, if i can start with you please. Thanks for being here and all the important work jpmorgan does to support thousands of new jersey jobs. I believe more new jersey residents 11 york should have the option to stay awake in jersey if they can, to the for the local Small Businesses, spending more time with family and saving on gas and parking in new york. Staying in jersey also means stopping new yorks proposed rages congestion tax plan. The metropolitan transit authorities congestion techs will cause commuters 23,000 a day. And by the emptys own admission, shift pollution and congestion to new jersey on the outer boroughs. This tax like is unaffordable for many new jersey residents and alert nurses, restaurant workers another in mass transit deluxe with no choice but to commute into new york city. I want to get your sense, if you would, what you think of imtiaz congestion tax proposal. He think this is something we should reconsider, given how it will hit hardworking families . I honestly have not really looked into it. Ive read about it, if it hurts certain groups disproportionately, you should look at. It it has worked in other cities, there may be ways to ameliorate the people who get hurt by it. I appreciate that, yes, were very concerned about the impact its going to have on hardworking families and actually cause more congestion and pollution. Miss fraser, if i can turn to you for a second, im working with new jersey legislators to trade talks with a nose for new york businesses open up new regional hubs in north jersey to allow workers who would normally commute to new york tuesday and work in jersey. The empty a post for things like their proposed congestion tax hike, would you consider expanding your offices in jersey for this purpose or allowing people to have more regional flexibility to work . We very much appreciate how expensive it is getting for our people to commute. Were very mindful around that. As well as being flexible for working families, and providing the more options. Additional facilities and spaces for them to work, either at home or in new jersey or in connecticut. These are certainly things that we have been looking at actively in the tristate area. Thank you, thank you for the 6000 jobs you have a new jersey. Thank you. Mr. Dimon, if i can ask one other question, id like to ask about another topic have been focused on. Throughout the development of Digital Assets and related technology. I believe the United States should lead the development of emerging technologies like distributed ledger some blockchain on the federal government should provide what is certainly needed for financial innovation. Provided financial stable coins, which i know the Ranking Member is also working on. Selectively appropriate regulator. Ive heard that you are skeptical of some of these technologies, but one of these things keeping you from being more active in the space . Do you worry that we would miss the boat to give other nations like china an opportunity to advance our Digital Currency another Payment Systems that could undermine the u. S. Dollar . I love to get some of your thoughts on that. You have to separate blockchain, which is real ledgers, tokens that do something and deliver information, money, ideas, simplify, smart contracts. Thats one thing. Im not a skeptic, im a major skeptic on crypto tokens, but you call a currency, like bitcoin. They are decentralized ponzi schemes. And the notion that its good for anybody is unbelievable. We sit here in this room and talk about a lot of things, but two billion dollars has been lost. Every year, 30 billion dollars and ransomware, am l, sex trafficking, stealing. It is dangerous. There would be nothing wrong with a stable coin properly, like a money market fund, properly regulated. You have some today and they are not. Jp morgan, we are a big user blockchain, as the jpmorgan coin. Which is a token, but to send it to us you get a u. S. , dollar its 1 deposit. He could be moved just away cryptocurrencies can be moved, stable value, very low cost. Thank you so much. Mr. Scharf, if i can ask you a quick question. Ifill called the stable coin protection act that would create guardrails to ensure that their bank of cash and prevent runs like we saw with the socalled stablecoin tara earlier this year. Do you think that would be a step in the right direction or have you considered this . That is certainly an option, in order to ensure that people understand the underlying value of that stable coin. Mr. Dimon, how do you feel about protections like that . Clearly defining what a stable coin is, making sure its backed, 1 to 1. Its equivalent to a money market fund, you should look at the exact same way in terms of disclosure, backup, gates and a whole bunch of different things. Thank you. I thank you all for being here again, were very grateful. Thank you. Thank you very much. The gentleman from South Carolina, mr. Timmons, its recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair. Thank you all for being here, theres so many of you and you are all very kind to take time out of your busy, busy days to come and testify before us here today. Earlier in this, hearing my colleague, congressman luetkemeyer, i thought took a fascinating line of questioning with you all. I dont rehash that but i think its worth discussing the economic relationship between the United States and china. Our two countries are obviously competing in a multitude of ways, economically, geopolitically, et cetera. But it really is more than that. Its also a clash of civilizations. Its a clash of autocracy versus democracy, a clash versus a command economy and capitalism. I think we all realize the vastness of the Chinese Market and how lucrative it may appear to you all, there is a cost of doing business there. As my colleague earlier said, for the time being, china is the ccp and the ccp is china. They control everything. Culturally, the Chinese Government views it as our obligation to give chinese businesses a competitive advantage in the Global Economy through a variety of avenues. So, when you are doing business in china, and many of not most instances you are doing business with the Chinese Communist party. Mr. Dimon, can you speak to this competition between our country in the west and china more broadly . And what you see as your institutions roll, and other similar institutions, that competition being . If china becomes a dominant economic power in the world, which is no doubt their goal, what do you think will be the consequences for freedom for us . America, if you had to do a full comparison, we have all the food, war and energy we need. They dont. We have the atlantic of pacific and wonderful neighbors and candid and pacific, theyre in the most complex region of the world. They have negligible autocracy, huge amount of corruption, they dont have our financial, system they dont have our innovative, society than one of the gifts of the society and free enterprise. Before americans panic about it we should be very thoughtful, but youre absolutely correct. This relationship for the next 5200 years of most important in the world. America wants to make the next century our century, we have to be very careful about strategic economic trade and all those issues that really matter. I think is really important that you understand that the American Government to sets foreign policy. Yeah American Government does not want American Business to disengage from certain parts of the world, that would probably be a bad idea. And policy is diplomatic, development, aid, economic. And america should negotiate, which is very comfortable with. Almost everyone at this table will do what asked to buy the American Government. Thats what we want to do, and we obviously talk to them quite a bit about this issue. Its just as boring to me as it is to you and your constituents. Sure, thank you for that. Miss fraser, do you have any thoughts . Let me look at the clients that we serve, many of them are multinational clients in china. I see theres a high degree of interdependence, as weve experienced. And the europeans have experienced as ive tried to decouple the russian economy from the western economies. So, i think, as we look forward, we have to take a strategic view. In america, as to where it is we need more strategic independents. And to build that in a thoughtful manner. But also in a way that doesnt cause crises, Economic Crises along the way. Im obviously not in a position to comment on the broader factors. Sure, thank you. I just have serious concerns that the way that the western world, the way were united against the aggression in ukraine and the sanctions that were placed upon russia and the military aid that was given to ukraine, things seem to be going in the right direction there. My concern is that china was watching and learned what the west is not going to tolerate. That there is a way to try to thread the needle in a moment of what i would argue is weakness for our country. Im just afraid that, if it happens, something happens in taiwan, that not only will the western democracies not unite, but the Global Economy will not step forward and defend our allies in taiwan. So, i just keep that in mind as developments progress over the coming months. With that, madam chair, i yield back. Thank you. The gentleman from new york, mr. Torres, is now recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair. A few months ago, the New York Times read an article titled, quote, fraught is flourishing intel, the bank says not their problem. Article features the story of bruce berke, who is in the hospitals covid19 when a thief stole his, phone access is digital wallet, random charges on his credit, card took cash to be atm and made a Money Transfer via zelle. Bank of america reimbursed mr. Barrs four losses associated with his credit card and atm, but not with the losses associated with zelle. According to the article, after being contacted by the New York Times, bank of america ultimately relented and remembers mr. Barrs for the loss is associated with cell. Since the episode with mr. Barrett, my question for bank of america, as bank of america adopted a policy of reimbursing below a zellwood customers for losses caused by unauthorized users or fraud . We have a policy where we, if a client of ours sends money to another client in defraud, we will take care of that. Because we should have let the other person in. And frankly, thats the kind of work we are doing as an industry. I think, you are here earlier, but the context of zelle fraud is that its lower than check in our company, the claims for fraud. So, we are working hard as an industry to take the fraud out of the system. Among all of, us by working together. Because inside the zelle platform, its another banking customer, and we kick banks out of zelle who dont have the capabilities to assess. That is what to make sure im understanding the answer. Those losses caused by an authorized user or by fraud via zelle, a b of a customer, like a situation like mr. Births. Would you reimburse . If the situation is what they call a p2p transfer from a customer to a customer, we will remember. s across the industry will do the same thing. What if the victim is only a customer . The other institution, where the money went, trying to recover it and we work it through. We reimburse a lot of the fraud. The headline suggests that the headline . The headline suggest the bank says its not their problem. That might suggest that the banks deny. Let me ask my question, let me ask my question, i have to reclaim. The article claims that the banks denied that there is their responsibility. I just want to ask all the owners of zelle, do you acknowledge that your bank, as a partial owner of zelle, has a responsibility for combatting fraud on zelle and reimbursing customers for losses caused by unauthorized uses and fraud . Let me be precise. Im going to start with u. S. Bank corp. Yes, if the customers credentials are stolen and they did not transact, we will reimburse in that situation. Thank you for that clearance. Or p and c . Yes, youre describing traditional fraud that is covered under jpmorgan . Unauthorized, generally covered. I dont think citibank is an honor of zelle, but do you want to give me a clear answer . I gave you, an unauthorized transactions are covered. You asked for something else. Mr. Rogers . Unauthorized transactions are covered. Mr. Scharf . Same, unauthorized transactions would be reimbursed. I have a question about cybersecurity. With the russian invasion of ukraine there comes a heightened threat of Cyber Retaliation from russia. As your bank seen an escalation in financial attacks on the cyber sector . Start with u. S. Banker. We have not seen any indication of an attack. Dnc . Same. Jp morgan . I think of the United States Government Credit for working closely with the banks. We expected a lob weve not seen a lot, very little bit but that doesnt mean its over. City group . We have not seen that in the United States. Bank of america . We havent seen a major increase, but the question is what happens next. Truist . We have not seen a major increase specifically related to that. Wells fargo . Same answer as my colleagues. Im just curious, whats the size of your budget for cybersecurity in each of your banks . Pnc . I dont know if the top of my head, i would assume its close to the sides of u. S. Banks. Jp morgan . 700 million directly, a lot more indirectly. Citigroup . Same, almost 800 million. Bank of america . Roughly one billion dollars and a lot indirectly with our partners. Truist . Several hundred million dollars, directly ended directly. Wells fargo . Partly seven or 800 million. My time is better expired, thank you. Thank you very much. The gentleman from texas, mr. Gooden, is now recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair, i let to thank you all for being here. Thank you, mr. Scharf, the last amount of wells fargo ceo come before here didnt go well and youve done a tremendous job with your institution. I want to congratulate you, so thank you. I had some followup to a lot of the conversations we had on china earlier today. Ill start with you, miss fraser, citi former global head of Investment Banking praise the Chinese Communist partys belt and Road Initiative. In fact, he said, quote, citi the strategy is directly associated with 32 of the 69 countries, which is more than any other global institutions or any other Financial Institution. And citi should play a leading role in this belt and Road Initiative, and quote. Its my belief that the Chinese Communist party uses this initiative to get unfair advantages to Chinese Companies and forces developing countries into debt traps, often with public corruption paving the way. I witnessed this on a trip to the middle east with my great chairwoman, maxine waters. Where we are told of extreme corruption that the Chinese Companies have been involved in across the african continent. By participating in the belt and Road Initiative, you are supporting significant risks to our National Security and Global Economy. Miss fraser, citi support of the belt and Road Initiative presents a serious conflict of interest by helping our strongest adversary expand across the globe. Do you understand the support of the belt and Road Initiative as directly opposed to the National Security interests of the United States . Thank you very much for the opportunity to answer the question. I do not believe, certainly since i took over as ceo, but i dont believe before that either that we have played a meaningful role, if any role, and the chinese belt and Road Initiative. That is wonderful to hear. That has changed, i celebrate that. But that was, i believe, recently. That the head of corporate governance, corporate strategy, said that. The respect to russia, ill continue with you, miss fraser. You said recently that you want citi to be a bank with a soul. When you explain to me or justify perhaps how financing russian gas giant loop oil while pledging to finance american producers accomplishes that goal . As weve talked about, we have already, in a short period of time, materially reduced our activities in russia. We are winding down our consumer franchise there and Consumer Banking franchise as we speak. And have been doing similarly with our corporate franchise. What we are primarily doing is supporting the multinationals that helping them in large part with their exit and winding down on the ground. Will you commit, today, to divest from russian oil and gas giant loop oil, which is funding this invasion of ukraine . I cannot imagine that we would have a meaningful role with them Going Forward. Thank you. Mr. Moynihan, do you support a free and democratic taiwan . Does your bank as well . Yes. Mr. Dimon, do you all share those views as well . A free taiwan. Sport freemen democracy everywhere, not going to comment specifically on taiwan, but something a specific because it is that statement. Some of you earlier declined to condemn the ongoing human rights problems in china with the uyghurs. The united nations, organizations and alike have condemned chinas actions. Well citibank condemn the ongoing human rights abuses in china at the hands of the Chinese Communist party . We certainly take any of the accusations of human rights abuses anywhere, wherever they around the world, very seriously. We will be vocal in our distress at them occurring. Will you condemn the ongoing human rights abuses in china at the hands of the Chinese Communist party . Condemn is a very strong word. Yes it is, so is genocide and slavery. We certainly are very distressed to see it going on, we do not want to have human rights abuses happening anywhere in the world we or anyone else operate. Thank you. I would encourage all of you to get out of doing business with russia and be very careful on china, because theyre working very strongly against our nation. And some of the answers earlier and the hesitancy to offend the chinese when many of your organizations are still willing to come down to washington and assert yourselves into politics, you seem hesitant to condemn things as simple as slavery and genocide, is alarming to me. But thank, you i yield back. Thank you, mr. Gooden. The gentleman from massachusetts, mr. Lynch, who is also the chair of the task force on financial technology, is now recognized for five minutes. Thank, you madam chair. Mr. Moynihan, bank of america has a very strong presence in my district. I have have the city of boston, i share that with miss pressley. I love quincy and brockton. I just want to say, to your credit, were trying to rebuild over 1000 deeply Affordable Housing units in the city. Miriam, mccormick Housing Development. One of the oldest Public Housing developments in the history of the country. That allows not only to do thousands of deeply affordable units but also workforce housing. So, people in the middle of it seem to be priced out in our area. But i want to thank, you because bank of america has committed funding to that sometime ago. But its good work, and we appreciate it. I had a chance to sit with me hall chamberlain, who represents you in our area. And the diversity, equity and inclusion subcommittee here with miss beatty, i asked him about progress on our hiring goals within the city of boston and brockton, in my district. The numbers were much improved, but id like to hear you talk about the system more generally. Not just in my district. One area where i think we do need a lot more progress is that, as a chair mentioned, i chair the task force on fintech. There is very little funding going to minority fintech principles, in terms of pushing their projects forward. Its really deplorable, in terms of, i think, its less than 5 of the money that goes to minority heads of fintech firms. Concerned about that. So, id like to hear about your efforts in both regards. So, on hiring, starting with who works for our company. Women are more than half the workforce, 49 diverse from the top the company to the bottom. Managers, 42 women, 42 people of color. This is a 30year effort of continuing to work and watch how the hiring flows through, to get the representation of society. The team has done a good job with that. In addition, we have committed to hiring 10,000 people of all ethnicities from lower or moderate income neighborhoods. We completed, that we said five years but did it in three years. We completed another 10, 000, in addition working on job initiatives and boston and other cities where we try to get kids to come work for Companies Like ours and my colleagues companies, Great Companies that offer great benefits a great starting wages right out of high school. And we do the training, here is the job, its a training we, need we get them to the Community College established him do it. Going to the question of finding, one of the things that weve perceived as we looked at it, the exact point you made, the need to create equity and smaller sizes for women owned businesses, African American owned businesses, black businesses. Asian, as, bennett latino. As we like, that the private equity funds right there. We want to find 100 private funds around the country, we committed 350 million to those funds. Other people of come in and they now funded almost 1000 companies. So, the entrepreneurs, the private equity people, for lack of a better term, about from those ethnicities. And the countries invested in are owned by people from those ethnicities and genders. Those companies dont get funded and prior cycles because they were too small, hard to find, all that stuff. Now, its happening and we expect this program to build. We have clients that come and say can we put money with us, thats good. My colleague companies have done similar things. But were all trying to find a way to create opportunities outside our companies, thats what were trying to find. Very good. Let me, ask i know we had a series of questions before on zelle, the whole payments piece of this. Im just trying to figure out how to get as some of the fraud. Is the lack of latency in that system, does that lend itself more to fraud because of the speed and finality of the transaction . Does that seem to be if i could jump in here. Sure, please. The traditional fraud in zelle his minute, its two basis points let me just say though, interject. Im not talking about that instance. When we issued money through the cares act, the Small Business association administration, 75 of so part of the blame is with us. 75 of the fraud is through Digital Lending and application applications. Theres more to it. Youre hitting a very important point for our country, for our industry. Zelle was a closed network system. If theres a bad transaction between them and ourselves i cn tell jamie, he closes the account. It gets fixed. If its outside the Banking System its invisible to us. Thats with the scams occur. We have no regulation once pickets outside of the Banking System. Thank you for indulgence. I yield back. Thank you very much. The gentleman from wisconsin is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chairwoman. I want to expect inflation. The American People are getting clobbered by higher costs every day. Before us with some of the best financial minds in the country backed by a whole array of economists and experts that are legit economic data. As we see fortyyear highs of inflation, 8. 3 people finding it harder and harder by the things that the family needs. A lot of this was avoidable and as result of bad policy choices here in washington. I would love to get your flavor here as to what policies are driving inflation so we can help families who are struggling to get by. Mr. Dimon, if i can, the 1. 9 trillionca reconciliation bill has been described as inflationary, excessive spending. Spending. Do you believe that 1. 9 trillion bill plate into inflation . As a mentioned earlier today we had 620 is bending over two years. 3 of gdp, largest its been since world war ii. Obviously it derives some inflation. Not those of other factors at play but it piled on. I want to continue on. Inside inside that winter Inflation Reduction Act which i think drives inflation. We saw the Biden Administration unilateral act on Student Loans. Im not asking you to come on the constitutionality of that. Ct i think its an illegal move. Im asking you to comment on the fairness of that. Is that an inflationary move by the Biden Administration to shift the burden of student debt to all taxpayers . It was yes, it was done. I wish they targeted people actually needed help. When he formed the underwriters when the government took over in 2012 they stopped underwriting. Woodcut of the business the second that happen knowing it was going to be a disaster. They still and fix the underwriting and they havee cost of college. So he basically put a bandaid on, spent a lot of money and didnt fix a problem which will now be ongoing. So please give it a fix. We would be well served of actually hold hearings here in congress before hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent. Im concerned about the fairness aspect. Theres far better ways to do it. I completely agree it does not address the underlying problem which is the fact that we have skyrocketing College Tuition costs. I let me shift gears slightly and look at the effect of housing. Many of you have exited the housing sector due to a whole host of regulatory burdens put in place byly the federal government driving up the cost of americans are tryinge to get loans. As we look at the impact of higher interest which having on america americans its quitel significant. Median homee price in wisconsin is 271,000. Last euros thousand dollars. Last euros too under 50,000. An increase of 20,000. An Interest Rate on a 30 year mortgage went from 2. 86 and is now at 6 . Your Monthly Payment on the same home in wisconsin, which is similar to across the country increased from 828. A month to 1302 a month. 500 a month more to buy the same house in wisconsin at a time when families cant m keepp with rising costs. If i can with you mr. Dimon again, im aware your Bank Information reasons exited many areas in this space. Have you got a lot of visibility into millions of americans financial picture come sketch this out, how is this impacting your customers . The customer is doing okay. That inflation highbridge going to eat away at the Balance Sheets, eventually their jobs and their spending money and are ways i wish this group would work on produce a cost of mortgages the official and effectively, make affordable today. In spite of rates going up. So lets dive into that if i can pivot you, mr. Demchak for a second. Over the last they could conquer some regulars have implemented complex bank capital liquidity standard regime, and i would argue the spring of 2020 had a stress test all stress tests. The Banking System came through that showed it was adequately capitalized. How do you react to proposal to increase Capital Requirements including proposals to take u. S. Standards over and above International Standards . In the u. S. We call the goldr plating will take whatever the International Standards are and then add some to it because we want to be better. The stress tests have shown real life stress test that the system is very well adequately capitalized. Has a lot of liquidity. Thanks. Thank thank you very muc. I yield back. Thank you very much. This side of the aisle applaud President Biden on student loan forgiveness, very important. The gentlewoman from pennsylvania ms. Dean is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair, i thank you to all our ceos for your time today. Ea i listened with interest to all of your Opening Statements and there were certain phrases that popped out at me. For example, mr. Cecere usage or one of the worlds most ethical companies. Ms. Fraser, you said and you spokee globally, that our banks are the envy of the world. Mr. Dimon, you said part of your work is to help solve the problems facing our country. Thats our mission, too. Help solve the problems that are facing our country. One of the problems that is facing our country day in and day out are the deaths from gun violence. Since 2009 the United States has suffered a devastating 281 Mass Shootings causing more than 1500 deaths and obviously so many more injured and terrified. We know some of the deadliest masso shootings have been financed with credit cards. For example, orlando the pulse nightclub shooter charge more than 26,000 in credit card charges on guns and ammunition in the 12 days ahead of his killing spree that killed 49 and wounded 53 others. His averageof spending prior to this was 1500 a month. Would you consider that to be suspicious activity . Raise your hand, nod your head, you find that to be suspicious activity . I am saying some sort of we dont know what they spend the money on. Well, we have reason to talk positively about that. Theres a way for us to know. In addition, before the shooter racked up Credit Card Debt on gun and ammunition purchases, he ran several online searches to determine whether his credit card unusual spending would be flagged and reported to the police. Of course it was not. To your point, mr. Dimon you didnt know what he was spending it on. To set the record straight on an issue a few of my republican colleagues have raised today which is a newly created merging category code or mcccc for gun d ammunition retail stores. As youou may know i coled a letter with senator warren in support of this code. Given the International Organization for standardization has voted to create the code of wantit to confirm your responseo mr. Williams question that you will be using the code, is that correct . I see a general absolute yes, there. Its my understanding youms already have practices for the detection of fraud and suspicious activity. Is that generally true . Yes, we talked a lot about fraud. Do you think that his this r example, had it been in place and shown that extraordinary activity of the ultimate shooter and killer in the polls instance, wouldnt it have been useful to note that racking up credit card charges very unusually . With meta been useful to note . Sort of a maybe . We know what it is for, who and why and just. Thats why this code is going to be important. All those gun sales get reported to government. All of them. Ms. Fraser was thinking of you because youre such a global view of what youre doing. I know youo all do frankly. I was in the eastern europe, Central Europe and happen to be the week of uvalde and i think about the global shame that comes upon this country as result of our outofcontrol problem with gun violence. 54,000 people died last year a a guy violence. 4400 of them children. And in these meetings in europe each meeting began with we are so sorry for your tragic losses in buffalo and uvalde. What responsibilities do you, the banks, have, what conversations have you had around your boardrooms to say how can we help slow the tragic loss of life due to gun violence . We know many of the transactions are coming through our systems. Ms. Fraser, what can you do . Thank you for your question. As you say we do operate in a number of countries where they have tragic deaths from gun violence around the world. Sometimes sadly we seem in Different Countries none quite like ours. Understood. But a problem in many countries and we have a lot of discussions with our board. And also with our employees who are concerned for their safety and their security as well foris our customers. Could you so it is an active dialogue about what we a can do to help prevent i think the chairwoman at a just as you to continue to partner with us to try to reduce this. The gentleman i from South Carolina mr. Norman is now recognized for five minutes. I dont think all the witnesses i want to thank all the witnesses for appearing, today. I hadnt r been in for all the questions but it shocked me some of the questions you are being asked. It really shocked me. Ive heard trying to shift blame for gun violence. Ive heard things about an equal equity in housing that you are responsible for. I have heard one of the members say you socked. When you ask the question, and i dont understand this, maybe yall can help it, when asked the question i think the bulk of it was if, how many of you raise your hand if you will have a person of color follow your leadership. Why is and nobody raised their hand made a comment. By the way of a Real Estate Developer from rock hill, South Carolina. Im part of the delegation there. Politician that i dont understand the boldest thats just not there to fly back at some these people and what theyre asking. Why would the answer to that question be. Mr. And ms. Politician we dont look at color. Paper look at achievement. T we look at past history of building banks because thats the business you are in. Mr. Moynihan, when the comment socked came upf your predecesso, i i would like to have seen his response. I dont think it wouldve been a Marine Response to that because you all represent such a vital part of our economy. Your competitors, you compete. I dont understand why the boldness is not there. You cant satisfy this group and thats why the American People are so frustrated. You talk about global shame, leaving americans behind in, all over the world, 8 8 million the granded position. Having inflation at a 40 year high is a shame. Having, cutting off our gas supplies and buying it from the very people who are killing your customers because the last time i checked, buying oil and natural gas from countries that hate us dont make really good sense to your customers who you represent and build shareholder value. I wrote each of you a letter. We had 37 cosponsors and and asked the question why is paying for abortions for your employees, how is that building shareholder value . Maybe its a disagreement on what healthcare is. I dont consider healthcare killing a baby. But that being said yall have got such an opportunity to show boldness, and maybe my letter to you maybe your board of directors is that gettingpo involved. We are sending you the letter Certified Mail too every directr of your corporations. But its an honest opinion to try to understand from someone whos inn the workforce. I did make my money in politics. As so many of these professional politicians have done. I would juston beg you to get yr voice back. This. Esg stuff, really . You are just laying about and taking it. The wokeness today. The response is, the silence has been deafening to me. As a business guy who competes and who pays a lot of taxes and who doesnt gladly to support our law enforcement, to support our first responders, to support our schools. Yall represent a great tradition and i wish you would just voice your opinion more. The Disney Company learned a valuable lesson trying to getet involved in something they dont need to be involved with. The governor top them a lesson and i hope and pray we will have more governors to teach lessons for companies that have no business getting into theth political arena. So thank you for what you do. Quickly, whats the cost of esg you having to comply with . Ive got 45 seconds. Today is very small but its going to be something substantial. Similarly. I dont know exact number but t is small and growing. What is small . It would be in attendance the millions at this juncture relative to our size. Mr. Moran has . Today moynihan it will grow because were getting more requests. Were not sure that were getting more request for data from more sources. I would give the same answer. Thank you. Small things lead to big things. Shareholder value and dividends is a big thing. Im not able to get you an exact number. Tens of millions but we get esg request every regulator around the world. It will likely be hundreds of millions of dollars at some point. Can you answer this . Its a larger number and growing as we get more requestn every day. Samer comment. The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentlewoman from michigan is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you all so much for being here. I really appreciate this opportunity. I represent one of the largestst populated counties in michigan. In recent years i know the michigan chapters of the American Civil Rights league and the council of American Islamic relations have filed r complains regarding banking discrimination against [inaudible] and so mr. Moynihan, in may you might know that theres a Class Action Lawsuit that was filed alleging that bank of america engaged in the shack by targeting restricting andle closing accounts of people most in faith. Are you aware of that . Though, i amm not. Well right now its a class filed met all the banks requirements showing residency and providing proof of that and still his account was unlawfully closed. How doesnk your bank ensure that the Customer Identification Program complied with regulations without freezing out all classes of consumers from access to Banking Services to support the families anden their businesses . What steps have you taken in that regard . That sounds like you dont even know about the class action suit. You dont care . I said before im not aware of the class action suits. We have a deep history of banking, all americans and another million americans will open account with us this quarter. If you have specific issue you should be very concerned. You should really be concerned about this because again you can see theres a pattern of specific groups andou certain background or ethnicities or faith come again this is a lawsuit filed in may and that we need to make sure americans of muslim faith orr any National Origin are not being targeted and you are not in permitting processes that singles out. Are you at least support of the making sure youre not discriminating against a whole committee . I can assure you thats not the case. I hope you got good lawyers. You have all committed as you all knowmm to transition the emissions from lenny and investment activity in line with pathways to netgear in 2050. Do you know what the International Energy agency has said is required to meet our global 2050 net zero targets unlimited global temperature rise to 2. 7 degrees for night or 1. 5 degrees celsius . No new fossil fuelet production starting today, so thats like a zero. I would like to ask all of you, go down the list, because again you all i have agreed to do this. Answer with a simple yes orda n. Does your bankk have a policy against funding new oil and gas products . Mr. Dimon. Actually not and that would be the road to hell for americ. Thatss fine. You know what . Everybody i got really from Student Loans has a bank account with your bank should probably take out their account a closer account. The fact youre not even therea. Tok help relieve many of the folks that are in debt, extreme debt because of Student Loan Debt and youre out there criticizing it. Fraser, how about you . We will continue to invest in clients who are investing in fossilil fuels and in helping tm transition to cleaner energy. Mr. Moynihan . We are helping our clients make a transition. We are lending to both oil and gas governors and two new Energy Companies and helping monitor the course towards the state you are talking about. Mr. Scharf . The same thing as mr. Moynihan said. Yeah, im not going to ask you mr. Dimon because you opposite dont care about workingclass people Frontline Community is like ours that are facing huge amounts of high rates of asthma, cancer rates are so high among my communities that it represents are not going as curator committing to any financing in the oil and gas projects but ms. Fraser, mr. Moynihan and mr. Scharf we are living through a Climate Crisis today and the commitment to netgear requires a a commit to ending fossil fuel financing. It is important it is a want you to know at the end will pay the cost of the publichealth impact. These are people youre supposed to be serving, the folks youre supposed to providing and supporting yourto anything else defies all logic and scientific evidence. If her Financial Institutions are going toat follow through on your net zero commitment, then regulators including the Federal Reserve and Congress Must step in and make them. With that, thank you so much holding this hearing. I yield back. Thank you. That gentlewoman from new york ms. Khosrow cortez is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair and thank you to all of our witnesses who are here testified today. I want to die a little bit into Paycheck Protection Program in a bit of what we seem afterwards. I have one of three reports here i would like to present today, a forbes report detailing the revenues that banks have made during the Paycheck Protection Program. And also digging into little bit of the fact that when it comes to loan forgiveness, Small Business administrationio receny attempted come d recently open a portal for Small Business owners to appeal directly with them for forgiveness. Chase, bank of america and pnc have opted out about direct program, is that correct, mr. Demchak, mr. Dimon and mr. Moynihan . I believe so. Im not aware ofdi that. Im not aware. So for your awareness your banks have opted out a Paycheck Protection Program forgiveness, and excuse me. That, that isnt correct. With the portal, thank you. Now, i would like to zoom in on think of america. Mr. Moynihan are you aware of how many ppp loans your bank has facilitated on behalf of its customer . About 400 almost 500,000, and 95 are forgiven or repaid already. How many of those loans in terms of percentage of those loans been forgiven in full as opposed to insu part . The ones that are forgiven, ask vast majority arebe forgiven in full. What we are starting to see here with some reporting, this is just one reason why was curious about the numbers, is at we were starting to see that bank of america is refusing to forget some ppp loans in fall but in terms of the portal that bank of america set up its a difficult to appeal these decisions. In fact, what were saying is that bank of america has prepopulated a Forgiveness Amount in their portal, sometimes drasticallynk lower tn Small Business owners had anticipated and had qualified for. And in instances where the Small Business owners have documentation, theres very little recourse for appeal. Th does your portal make it easy to appeal the decisions so that after two attempts the sba can then take over the case . He borrowers can appeal. 95 of the loans are repealed today. A substantial part of going through the appeal process as a speaker. The borrowers can appeal and were in a a process of finishig up the last 20,000 or so loans. Its a small amount of loan. And to certify that 95 forgiveness is a full forgiveness for repayment. The vast majority are full. I can get the data to you. I apologize. Not to belabor this but is that 95 a partial loan forgiveness for for a full loan forgiveness rate . They are getting what, the, e borrowers are applying for forgiveness. 95 have gone through already paid and the vast majority were full forgiveness but theyre entitled to what the program to design. 10,000 10,000 people are wn this program. We are finishing that up. Just let the process go and a lot of what youre reading frankly is not the facts because it doesnt understand how the math works. So just give us some time, we will get you the facts and you will see it. What is the reason that bank of america chose to opt out of the sba portal . I can get somebody to give you that. Have no idea whether, told you before im not sure if we did or we and i have no idea why we made the decision but were processing loans as fast as anyone. Okay. Im sorry, im just having a tough time. This is about 25. 2 billion in loan amounts and interbank, . Not anymore. Bite at one point in time and so were looking and so you are uncertain as to why the bank has not chosen to enroll in the sba portal . I said will get you the information. The amount of loans we have left on this thing is 1 billion or so. So. Its down to very littles. Amou. Its all paid back. The team did a a great job and were happy to supply information. We look forward to it. Thank you very much. Thank you. The gentlewoman from texas, ms. Garcia, who is also the vice chair of the subcommittee is now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair, and thank you so much for bringing this hearing to the table today. Its really important for us to continue our oversight role in this committee which as you know weve been doing and continue to do today. I like to thank all the witnesses. Its been a long day and i want to apologize because you seem e go in and out. I was triple booked. Ive been running to market in judiciary and hearing in Armed Services so i am coming and going in all direction i wanted to be here to ask some specific questions related to a bill that i recently introduced called a multilingual Financial Literacy act. This bill would direct the Financial Literacy Education Commission to conduct a study and the Impact Limited English Proficiency on Financial Health. In the u. S. Over 20 of households speak a language other than english at home, and0 nearly 9 of individuals have limited English Proficiency meaning they speak english less than very well. This means 26 million households in the United States have limited English Proficiency. A huge number of potential customers. In your language. It is important to me and to my constituents, which is my district is about 77 latino, and its important to me and its important for the economy that everyone, everyone have the same opportunity for Financial Health no matter what language they speak. Mr. Demchak i want to begin with you. Pnc bank started a new Mobile Branch of Service Function in both english and spanish for unbanked and under bank manager north texas. Nk this operates in a Global Mobile movement resembling an arbiter residence at the option of withdrawing or depositing from atm open bank accounts, and much more. Has this ever been successful so far and have you been able to get a sense of the difference language inclusion makes in Financial Services . Are you expanding this to other Mobile Branches, and are you telling your stories so that perhaps some of the folks at the table with you can copy what you are doing . Thank you for that. Yes, yes and yes. We have a fleet of Mobile Branches that is going every day your we deployed it into both rural and urban communities, and the financial economics makeses sense because they canev cover multiple communities out of one its fancier than an rv, but out of one big truck. It offers every service you can get in a traditional bank. Ill stop there. We are proud of it. I would call it its the old bookmobile from when we were kids. I grew up in a Rural Community and yes, the bookmobile came by every week during the summer. My biggest disappoint it was before the end of the summer i had already read every damn book in the bookmobile that i was an avid reader and i certainly believed in mobile unit so thank you for doing that and i hope that your colleagues are listening because thats a model that can be used to serve so many other underserved communities around our country. My next question is forus mr. Dimon. My district is 77 latino. I know the remarks that you said that jpmorgan, chase was advancing hispanic and Latino Program which is committed to creating a future for hispanics and latinos worldwide. What does that mean . Can you be specific as to say it again. You said in your written testimony that you are advancing hispanic and Latino Programs which are committed to creating a future where hispanics and latinos worldwide have opportunities to grow and thrive. Could you be more specific . Ic hire and train, special programs for mortgages, special points for Affordable Housing, special. 4 education. We have banks in the bus come to pick we have complete Spanish Speaking call standard, document the forms. Hispanics is not a language. Spanish, im sorry. Switch i did all of that. Its been quite successful if you want to come visit that. Well, i dont see much. Theres events in houston, i havent seen it thing in my neighborhood. I just wondered if you could be specific about a program where you are working and making sure that lets you know community is served. Ive been to those communities myself. Ill send you all the documents and details. All right, i look forward to seeing. That and just one last thing for miss fraser, thank you for all the work, i noticed in your definite you said youre the number one for Public Housing lender. Thank you, we need to do more. With that, i yield back. Thank you. The gentleman from georgia, miss williams, whos also the vice chair and the subcommittee thank you to eyewitnesses who joined us for this long day as a newer member of congress i have the benefit of listening to a lot of the other questions before it is my turn so a lot of my questions have already been answered. But i do have one that is specific to my district. I represent Atlanta Georgia and unfortunately atlanta leads the nation in the rental wealth gap. One way to help close the racial wealth gap, too many people have faced barriers to getting a home loan because of their lack of traditional Credit Information and in fact 45 Million People dont have enough Credit History to be accurately scored as many of them have our or our family, friends and neighbors. That is what im interested in bank of americas announcement of the new vessel Purpose Credit Program Mortgage product which requires no minimum credit score and relies on factors such as rent, utility bills, phone bills and Auto Insurance payments to underwrite remortgage loans. Mister moynihan, do you expect this product will more underserved borrowers qualify for a home mortgageand if so how do you plan to track those results . We expected to expand mortgages to as you said and we will track the results because we will be reporting on the success of this program along with our 15 billion homeownership programs assistance and other versions of that so we expected to help. The question is how do you plan to track the results, not if you plan to track them but how every person that comes in is a special program is designated separately so you can see the application come through the program. The person is given a headcount of the down payment assistance so you track the ay results coming through. Its not a oneway program, is available everywhere. Can you tell us how this program will work in practice weston mark how will borrowers know they can use rent and other data not typically on their credit reports to help them qualify for this new product . Its available to all our financial systems. You can find information on all our online systems which 90 percent of low and moderate income systems use and you can find it in our specialized product and things like that so its available in all our operating channels. And this is something people coming in to look for a mortgage product are told is available . Theres a branch of the street here and the day after weannounced it we had people coming in already. So im sure that we will have a lot of people coming into the branch. Re mister moynahan this is a great thing so i want to hear more about it so if you could tell me more about why you decided to make this Pilot Program available in certain cities and you expect sto expand to other cities as well as expanding thisproduct offering in the future . If the program is successful and theres a customer the way we hope it does yes, we will be able to bring it to other cities. Its an extension of work weve been doing for many years. Each aspect of this is from the 1974 equal credit opportunity act. This has a little bit different qualification mechanisms to it so we expected to be expand to other cities once we get used to it but its about where the mortgage is being done and the borrower, not just about the borrower whatyour other programs are. You think its reasonable and feasible for other banks to underwrite mortgages with this type of nontraditional Credit Information . Not only is it feasible, they already do it. Im aware of the other institutions and whether they use another way to complete that part of the credit analysis above and beyond traditional. And i would love to hear from other banks about what theyre doing to underwrite mortgages for information for nontraditional or alternative Credit Information. Are doing fundamentally the same thing. Except thats not exactly how we do it id love to hear more about it. I would add this is something the occ has organized around project reach where all the banks are working together to try and use all of the information that we have to go beyond the fight goes score. To make credit decisions on a more informed basis, not just for mortgage but for ahost of projects. Anyone else before my time expires . Thank you madam chair for my time today and i yield back. Thank you. The gentleman from massachusetts Mister Austin klos who is the e vice chair for the full committee is now recognizedfor five minutes. Thank you madam chair. Long hearing, almost done. As weve been in this hearing the fed announced the 75 basis point increase. The chairman is challenging his inner folder and is committing to use the full slate of Monetary Policy to reduce inflation. Rmhis greatest asset in this endeavor is going to be his credibility as an inflation fighter. By show of hands how many of you haveconfidence the feds resolve through 22 and 23 to pursue its mandate of rice stability . Thats a show of confidence from wall street and governor powell. The best way to reduce inflation is to expand the productive capacity of our economy. Mister diamondyou said this in yourremarks. That means raising Labor Force Participation rates and building more housing. At the state and local level that means pushing back on me and the opposition to multiFamily Housing , at the federal level what can government and big banks do together to help build more Affordable Housing, to help build more Affordable Housing not justto finance it. Because our home state of massachusetts is so crucially under the weight of housing costs idlike you to answer first and anybody else can jump in. If youre talking developers, first of all the financing we all do as an industry is financing about 5 billion ayear in housing. Low income moderate income housing. In terms of Development One of the perceptions is weve got to create more development so weve created 6 million of equity to go into more developers to close that gap. Were working to see if we can put together the same kind of program on the theory theres a need to develop more developers. We can do more work but its a universal problem. Whether its 20, 30,000, boston the same thing. Hitting Housing Development staff is critically important. Its a multifaceted question which requires us to think about University Housing and think about kids that work for us in new york city housing which isdifferent from Family Housing and thats one of the planning cycle things. Most of all it takes rolling. In massachusetts we e created two jobs for every one unit of housing and you dont have to have an economist to understand what happens when you do that, housing prices go up and the most important thing we can do to help people and working families inparticular , the property glmarket is way too tight but in china its collapsing. There zero policy has been a disaster. The us economy has grown faster than the chinese economy in the last year for the first time in my lifetime. Where can capitol hill and wall street collaborate and seize the initiative and outcompete the ccc p4 leadership of the worlds economy . Were seeing that a little bit with some of the bill the chipset and after permitting for solar, wind power, hydroelectric power, sometimes the coordinated thing, the building cant get built because the water is not being put in. Getting our schools to teaching, so the whole panoply of things that e, theres a great list. Id appreciate that. One of the persons can jump in. I think the earlier one of your colleagues mentioned investing in research and what america has is the best Research Platform in the world and thats where you win longterm so weve got to do a lot of things short term but in the chips act the investment pieces critical as the other piece likewise around the medical platforms. And why we didnt have to have a zero policy so we cant forget research, labs, etc. It has to be funded in a way they can plan ahead and do the work. Its not just the united destates, itsmassachusetts leading the way on biomedical research. And with the chips act that we appropriated and authorized for the chips that we did not appropriate for the science part of that bill and were going to have to appropriate the money we organize in biomedical research. Mister diamond in the last 30 seconds previous members of this panel impugned your motives relative to workingclassfamilies and didnt give you a chance to respond, do you want to respond in the last 30 seconds . We all try to help our communities lifting up impoverished communities, supporting things like the earned income tax credit, chips act so the that did interview me a little bit, it was wrong, most of us care about our employees and hopefully we demonstratedthat today. I yield back. Thank you very much. To our witnesses today, we are very appreciative of the time you have spent and we certainly appreciate your patience. This is difficult work but as you know we have the responsibility of oversight and investigation, protecting our consumers and we do that with regulations and so having said all that, of course they are concerns, there are disagreements but thats how democracy works so let me just say thank you for the e time that you have spent here today. Thank you for the way you have responded to our concerns and our questions and of course we have a lot of work that we must continue as we interactwith each other to do the peoples business. So id like to thank you for all your testimony today and i conclude, i do want to note for the record my somewhat concerned that despite providing some of you or all of you are invitation with questions well in advance that at your request on july 1 more than 50 days ago not all witnesses fully responded to the questions. I fully expect those who did not will wrongfully provide a complete set of responses within the next week when we can include those in the hearing record. Without objection all members will have five legislative days in which to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the chair which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I asked our witnesses to to please respond as promptly as you are able. So without objection all members will have five legislative days with which to submit extraneous materials to the chair for inclusion in the record. With that again, my sincere thanks for the time that you have spent andthe patience you havedemonstrated. This hearing is adjourned. [inaudible]. [inaudible] cspan is your unfiltered view of government funded by these Television Companies and more including charter communications. Broadband is a force for empowerment. Thats whycharter has invested billionsbuilding infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. Charter is connecting us. Charter to medications supports cspan as a Public Service along with these othertelevision providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. This afternoon former irs commissioner john costin and talked about ways to improve the Child Tax Credit and the earned income tax credit hosted by the bipartisan policy center. Watch live coverage at 2 pm eastern on cspan2. Also watch on our free mobile video or online at cspan. Org. The january 6 committee returns wednesday for its ninth hearing. Ahead of the release of their written report expected by the end of the year. You can watch the hearing live beginning at 1 pm eastern on cspan three, or any time at cspan. Org