Like to see in america and over the past 20 years of what has been the most important change in america. giving away 100,000 dollars in total prizes and every feature glass students participate in this years competition has the opportunity to share a rtion of anadditional 50,000. Competition deadline is friday. For information visit our website at studentcams. Org policy leaders take part in aconversation about the israel hamas war. Leaders touched on displaced humanitarian palestinians and achieving peace in the middle east. This conversation hosted by the Wilson Center. Good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon and welcome. I am director of the middle east program at theWilson Center. We are honored to be posting ermembers of the era islamic delegation today starting with his Royal Highness faisal saud. His excellency mister ayman safadi, foreign minister of egypt. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. I would like to introduce our moderator today, ambassador david hale who is a former sent fellow at the Wilson Center and ambassador to pakistan and lebanon as well as middle east envoy. Before i turn it over to you david just a note to our audience watching online and we have a few hundred of you today tuning in. Please leave any questions or comments in the comment box and welcome to all of you as well and with that i will turn the floor over to you, david. Thank you to all of you and your excellencies, we are excited you are here. This is an important period for all of us who care about that time of the world. Im going to turn to all of you or might ask each of you in sequence a question to give you an opportunity for remarks and we can turn to audience questions. Maybe he will talk to you faisal, the delegation was launched at League Summit hi and you are one of the permanent members of the Security Council and we would be interested in hearing about your message and how the opportunity is going. Thank you for. Thank you. Thank you for hosting us and giving us this opportunity to engage across the mission and the joint summit as yousaid. The extreme degradation of the conditions and violence continues as Israeli Military operations have led to the death of thousands now, more than half of them children. Our message has been very clear. There needs to be an immediate cease fire and immediate vacancy for humanitarian efforts. It is not acceptable that you military and aid is being used as leverage s for punishment for citizens. We have had a strong message to all of our interlocutors that this needs to stop and we are continuing to see unfortunately significant military operations that are unjustifiable and that clearly go beyond what you military and law allows. The fighting has to stop now and thats the only way is the only way we can engage and talk about what comes next because in our opinion needs to be a conversation to ensure security for all of us cuin the region, palestinians, israelis as a pathway to a 2 state solution. So thats our message. And we have had some good conversations with our partners but unfortunately there is still not enough action by the International Community and the United NationsSecurity Council put forward a call for immediate ceasefire. It does not look like that will pass. They may take action against it. This is unfathomable. We dont understand why it is so hard to cooperate a ceasefire. This is usually what in conflicts like this where civilian casualties have been far outpacing any justifiable military means, they have always been rallying to stop the fighting and in this case why is it not the same . This is not acceptable and we had already one resolution that has not been implemented. We are very very disappointed that not enough is being done. We are disappointed with the International Community and security structure of the United Nations council for not living up to its responsibilities. Ti thank you your highness and i turn now to Prime Minister of qatar. I know qatar has played a historical role working with the people of gaza to work with egypt, the United States trying to bring humanitarian aid in exchange for hostage releases so we would be appreciative hearing about that and any other perspectives from your government. Thank you very much david for having us. Since the seventh of october our position has been very clear that hostages need to be released without any conditions. Unfortunately the complications of the war have been a situation more challenging for all of us. We Work Together with egypt and the United States in order to secure the release of women and children but also have succeeded in releasing 85 israelis plus 24 foreigners. So it means the process works, that results in the release ofthose hostages and those hostages , they were not being released because of the war or the continuous bombing. The idea of this war is to release the hostages for 70 days and the process works and hope we will have a positive outcome for that. Unfortunately the talks resume to finalize the women and children. We had things that made the deal a part but the deal was not perfect, not perfectly implemented otfrom all parties so just to be clear on that. But we associated theres a viable way forward but it cannot be implemented unless there is a ceasefire, unless there is that humanitarian point. Every day the bombing is going on. Debt is increasing for the israeli citizens. Death is increasing, the possibility of losing any leverage or any hope of having this executed. We believe there is a moral obligation to the internationalcommunity to stop the killing of the civilians. And its the first sign at least in my lifetime that i have seen that calling for a ceasefire became a controversial issue. The numbers of civiliansjust became a number. The number is not really whats happening to them. In our Mission Together with our main focus is to ensure that there is a cease fire immediately. There is unconditional humanitarian access for humanitarian aid in gaza. After that we can talk about what our problems in the west bank are. The issue as a whole, not really chopped into pieces and talk about law and order. Because otherwise we will not have any sustainable solutions. This s is basically we are arguing. Thank you very much foreign minister and i would like to turn to my colleague, mister minister you find a leader in this quest for peace in the middle east. A peace treaty with israel and jordan feels the consequences of what happened around the palestinians and israel he as sharply as anyone if not more so. So very keen to hear your perspective on this and particularly what your message is to the United States and how you think we can do the best job possible to restore stability and peace. An david and i will stick with what my colleagues have said. To say briefly what israel is doing is not just tkilling innocent palestinians, not just making gaza on inhabitable. It is killing the idea of peace. If you conduct a pulling euro and ask that people believe the majority would say no so israel suffered a strategic defeat in this war. It has exposed the policies that it has been systematically implementing even before the war in the west bank, basically killing any horizon for a peaceful resolution to this conflict. Settlement of vast locations of land, even determining the futureof all palestinians. With Decision Making positions right now w they are openly calling for wiping out the palestinian people. The Prime Minister himself said he would suffocate any palestinian aspiration for a state. Its been turbulent since october 7 and the consequent war took place. All of us didnt condone the killing of civilians october 7 and that was a position we took unequivocally and as a solution for the first time but we see how israel is conducting this war. Including the United States of america because even as wives are saying abide by International Law is not. His discriminant week killing civilians. Its denying the people of their right to food and water. It has taken 2. 3 million gazans hostage and even conditioning the entry of humanitarian supplies. It is something we allagree on. What we call unequivocally came in and said hostages should be released but what rising food is another war crime for which they have to be held accountable. I am not sure how deep is the understanding here of whats happening on the ground in gaza. This war has broken every record, largest number of germans killed, largest number of hospitals destroyed, largest number of medics killed largest number of un please kill all today that had sent a letter to the head that i never thought i would be predicting this for my colleagues. Mark and greta are saying that humanitarian effort is collapsing so there is unfortunately the physicians in the west including in the United States have not come to be to the right degree of saying we value some of the decisions or announcements made in terms of not allowing occupation in gaza but we are in disagreement over the fundamental issue of not calling for a ceasefire because what this war is doing, how many more palestinians have to be killed. For the war to realize that enough is enough. And again, there was forward at the beginning of this conflict. I dont want to leave the arguments of saying israel doesnt have a right to selfdefense but leavethat aside. How is killing 17,000 palestinians, the majority of our women and children, 7000 palestinians killed,bodies of children decomposing under rubble with no tools to get them out. How is that justified in any way. The victims of this war really beyond the tragedy of killing so many people and destroying their livelihoods and the community is International Law because it seems to be applied selectively. The standing of many partners and friends in our world because they are failing to realize the moral or legal implication of stopping this slaughter. And the danger is for the future. Not just for now. Youve lived in our part of the world. You know how things are there. Clearly do you see any opportunity in this environment. Sitting right now im talking about t reintegration or economiccooperation. We always hoped for peace and our message to our friends is that were not asking you to be against the. Were asking you to standfor whats right and stand for peace. In addition to all the damage it is causing. Were trying to take a stand by peace , stand by the region. This will allow security to israel, israel will not have security unless palestinians have security. If you want to help israel, help but youre not helping it to allow it to continue denigration that will hurt the whole region for many years to come. That will be defining generations. In jordan and other parts of the world tend your goals are refusing to buy products from companies they believe are associated with allowing israel to continue this for. How are we going to look at those young people and say this is a country with which we can have peace . We all are in agreement that we will not talk about gaza alone because that would be a terrible failure. Ur and number two we will not basically allow israel because this is whats happening. Israel is doing whatever it wants in defiance even of its allies, creating a horrific situation in gaza and expecting us to clean up his mess. We will not do that. We will not engage in any approach to gaza which wants to be driven through the same prism of security management. And what 15 years of yahoo policies do . We need the United States as a partner and ask a role that is indispensable in any effort to bring about peace we need lto leave in a big way to resolve this conflict and the only way to do that is to announce another process because the process now has consequences after many years of failure for the us to announce a plan with a two state solution, with mechanisms to have a timeline and all of us will do what we need to do to make sure this succeeds and this is the only way for which we are going to bring us security to the israelis in an environment of peace that palestine needs. Thank you mister nester you are clear about what your objectives are. Obviously we all share so much of what you said is the role of getting their first only the harder part. I turn now to our colleague mister minister of egypt again, longstanding partner in peace in the middle east and you have the misfortune i guess being a neighbor of this particular conflict so i would be keen to hear your perspectives and honest question of what we do during this transition period. Thank you david. The challenges that have emanated from this conflict arguments for the peace and security of the region. The potential of escalating the conflict regionally and internationally. Again, we believe that the situation is unattainable, but cessation of hostilities is a must. And all conflicts have always been a matter of calling for a cessation and then applying resulting any conflict through peaceful matters. The diplomatic terms. This is not the first conflict to erupt between hamas and israel, this is the sixth. Egypt has the responsibility of intervening in the five previous rvconflicts and there has been in a relationship that existed an understanding instead of conflict there was a period of call. But neglecting the political horizons, dealing with the israelipalestinian conflict and the implementation of the Consensus International consensus of the creation of a palestinian state has led to a cycle of violence and hatred and animosity. Has restricted the ability to read the region of this status and entering into a new phase of regional integration and cooperation. So again, we must not deal with this conflict in isolation from the proper perspective of the fall and endgame related to settling the israeli housing in conflict on cases of the two statesolution. And what is ongoing is ashas referred to is the international rolebased order, the growing feeling that theres a double standard being applied to this conflict in terms of acceptance of this scale of human suffering. The number of innocent casualties, 7000 children. A third of the 17,000 women and children and a general acceptance of the scale of human suffering. Conditions that i hear directly from the director of other un agencies is inhumane and most recently youve seen the pictures, of those who have been present that will dehumanize and humiliated by stripping down to their underwear. Our pictures that are reminiscent of previous historic circumstances that were conceivable to me once again projected and the problem is that it is not sufficient. Condemnation of this status of humanitarian situations that is quite painful. I think the implication of the security article of the charter of the United Nations is the potential collapse of the humanitarian situation in gaza should be addressed directly. It should be addressed through the responsibilities of the Security Council. Theres a resolution hethat resolution i think will be considered today. It will be very damaging to the reputation of the Security Council. Too many might not support cessation of hostilities. It will lead to further erosion of confidence in the multinational system as well as addressing the resolution that has been presented by this group to provide unlimited access of the humanitarian goods to gaza. The issue of displacement. Displacement is a war crime but it has occurred. Still again many of our partners seem to only address the issue from a perspective of encouraging israel to respect but never defining whether it does so or not, whether we have seen on many occasions and its always been a very clear and determined evaluation when the issue was related to other parties of International Community. Whether they were buying the values of that are being always expressed and advocated. We are living with a situation is serious. Displacement whether internal or external, whether in gaza or the west bank is absolutely unacceptable. Palestinians themselves, measures are being taken and enforced displacement whether the pressures that are being put in view of the military activity or why the mere continuing conditions. There is now the threat to the health of the palestinians, the lack of food, lack of medicine. Im not sure what i was told before i came here on the palestinian side has come under some arguments which will make the entry of assistance impossible. The distortions and distractions of whether the crossing has been opened or closed is astounding to me. Crossing has never beenclosed. It has never been part of the desire to create a siege on gaza. The raffa crossing is a peoples crossing has always received palestinians coming out for medical treatment and education otherwise during the first day of the conflict it was open but because of hisbombardment , it is quite apparent that the idea is to strangle gaza and the inner supplies of the civilians. They absolutely condemn whats happened on 7 october. Weve indicated is an acceptable targeting any civilians taking a hostages is also an immediate release. Then nobody has addressed the issue of the palestinians that came to life in this transfer of what. They are children that have been imprisoned without due process and there is the situation the west bank or contravening the law whether local or international, it seems to be an acceptable practice. We again highlight the risk of the erosion of credibility in many quarters because of the assessment of how they are dealing with this conflict in a manner that is inconsistent with the standards that are being set. At of the conditions that exist in gaza today, thank you. Thank you very much your excellency. I think all of you. Its been very clear what your message is in your perspective on how to grapple with this tremendous tragedy. I think it is an opportunity now to turn to perhaps the audience. We have been gathering questions. When she comes to the podium all throughout their as well as think at some stage remote to come back to the question of what happens if and when the ceasefire resolution in new york is not adopted and the United States position has been toto oppose it. Although miracles can happen in theti Security Council. Where to go from there . In particular the transition. Moving from the conflict to diplomatic and Political Solutions i will be required to achieve yourr aims. Thank you. Have a few questions from our online audience. After the fighting ends how to arab states play the role they must play in restoring gaza . An legitimate palestinian they are . We made it very clear it will not engage in any conversation how gaza is managed. Because basically if we do that we are saying we are okay with israel destroying gaza and we are okay with coming to clean up after them. These second thing is we made it clear that gaza alone and it will engage and do whatever it takes from all of us to move forward once and for all solution to the conflict including one unit and looks for a solution that conflict. Again, as i said earlier the solution is clear. What we need is an end game not a process but it mechanism, a plan that is irreversible and implemented. When that happens we will do what it takes to make sure that happens because that is the only thing we believe to bring the comprehensive peace to save the whole region from having to relive the horrors that we see. Appening the second thing i would say is i think the question should be addressed to the Israeli Government paid Health Artist went to go . What is the objective . So far we have seen nothing but vengeance being taken on civilians on civilian people again i dont want to go into numbers but the numbers are shocking i thank you all know them in terms of the impasse this is having. On the palestinians. And we should ask one question. Anyone can tell you if israels ever answer this question what does israel want . David you have been engaged for so many years. What does that want . Obviously it now as long as he is in office he will not allow two state solution to be realized. What that means he will never allow the conflict. Because if he believes the palestinians will give up on their p rates and statehood then he is missed reading the lessons of decades of conflict. What he is saying he was the conflict to continue. I want to draw attention to what is happening. There is award taking place as well. There has been over 300 settler terrorist in the west bank since the conflict started on october 7. There is an7. Average of palestinians. No Settlement Expansion from the southern. And that was only three days ago. Again any politicians coming out saying they will not recognize the lacks of the dehumanization. So what we are facing here is not just the challenge of whats happening inac gaza. Think forward is about who is benefiting gaza. Benefiting a what . Those same conditions of siege seizurewe have had for years. Before october 7. Managed gaza with israel to come in and do whatever it wants as Prime Minister said he would do because he said he would maintain to conduct Security Operations into gaza. Starve the population . We will not be enforcing the itreality israel has been enforcing on the west bank and gaza only now its much more disruptionan much more pain that will make it impossible. Gaza is a wasteland. 1. 8 palestinians have been displaced from the north. If you see the pictures if you see the images can someone explain why israel would bulldoze their streets can someone explain why they would destroy buildings like the Legislative Council of gaza just went in and bonded to the ground . What strategic objective is there other than sending a message to the palestinians you will never be allowed to go back and back to the issue of displacements. When you push all the population of gaza on 56 the area of gaza note capacity to sustain no schools no sewage you basically are sitting in motion a reality that would push people out. We are concerned in egypt is concerned and all of our partners supporters we will never allow the displacement of palestinians outside of their land. I think it was very clear the declaration of war on us. We will do whatever it takes to make that happen israel is trying to solve the problem the occupation has created at the expense of the security and stability of the region. I think basically to sum up israel is conducting an illegalo immoral. Its creating a horrific reality todays failure to support is an endorsement for the killing of panas palestinians. The commitment of war crimes and for jeopardizing the future of the region including the lives of israelis. We spoke about hostages. We also part hostages. As the only time with which hostages were released . When there is a ceasefire that allowed for negotiations to happen. By continued with the war israel was also created conditions thats making it impossible for hostages to be released. That should speak to the priorities of the Israeli Government which again appears to be acting out without thinking the consequent is thank you. Thank you your excellency. I am struck im truck trying to member whater sucker trey blinkn said in tokyo during the g7 admit cereal about a month ago. He laid out about a dozen principles which sounds i may be mistaken on a point or two but found very consistent with the message you are conveying today. The hard part is how. How you get to these objectives . Maybe we can further explore that. Thank you. More questions from our online audience. Afterth the wars end of the International Communitys seek to resolve the conflict and establish a Peace Process . David you want to get that . It must. If it doesnt we are setting ourselves for a repeat. Whether its a year, two years three years who knows. We must all be committed to a true and lasting peace. Its the will of the International Community. We have all given lip service to peace in the middle east for too long. Weve all talked about a two state solution. There is universalti consensus a two state solution is s the only answer. Is the only guarantee of security and peace for all people in the middle east. Make sure now that happens. Is enough blame to go around. Now is the time live up to the responsibility to bring the conflict that has lasted for too longng they spilled too much bld they are committed in the arab world and the muslim world. They are committed to a two state solution. To make that happen. Numeral highness address the next question. The Prime Minister youve been so active and conflict resolution not just on this case but many other areas as well. Roxie future of the palestiniane authority. And what role they will play. Actually my colleagues eat cannot talk about the day after right now because we are talking about the crisis that is occurring today. The First Priority for all of us is to stop the war and to find a negotiated solution for the hostages now what kind of help or support is being provided by the International Community besides the financial theyre getting from certain countries or others . They have never been supported by the International Community in order to provide a political horizon for their people. And for any structure that will come at a place for the palestinians for the west bank it will not be supported by a political process we would end up with the same situation. So we believe this issue is an issue that needed first about a palestinian decision. In a second it needs the support from the Russian Community with the political horizon would legitimize or the government. Thank you very much. I think we would like to hear as well the next question. Which is . We have two questions on how mouse no one has mentioned hamas. Howne do you define their role n the conflict and in a possible solution . And particularly how mouse and breaking the ceasefire on october 7. Not interested in a two state solution what it can some of the arab governments do to marginalize hamas . If i was to address this issue and with the governments of supports of the two state solution. So the nature of hamas is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood. It is an idea that has festered in the occupied territories and have gained sympathies in the west bank and among palestinians. Primarily because of the lack oc the physical horizon the lack of achievement in the creation of a palestinian state an idea, an idea it related by virtue of the right to resist that occupation. The underlying factor is the presence of an occupation that has led to radicalization who has led to animosity that created the ideologies to which hamas is associated and thereby did best manners to defeat this ideology or idea is to find a better idea to find a more productive idea the human nature is the same thing everywhere but people are looking for better lives, for secure lives they are not prone to want to enter into conflict and confrontation. So devoid of a reason we certainly can envision a day where peace prevails and palestinians can live sidebyside. There is already a great deal of cooperation and a relationship that exists that worked in israel. There are mixed marriages that exist 20 of is really arabs. And so it is easy to conceive a much Brighter Future than the cycle of conflict that is detrimental to the development of the region of the Economic Prosperity and certainly not the scale of human suffering. And so we hope all of these things will resignation the potential for peace two state solution. The question before is related to a process. We have been in a process for the last 30 years its a lot more. But we need now is implementation. We know the various parameters related to the establishment even the terminology the two state solution is somewhat of a contradiction as an existing state of israel. Recognized with the United Nations. What is lacking is selfdetermination of the creation of a palestinian state in accordance with the principle of selfdetermination. And the values i think all people aspire to it that are ate advocated here in the United States and in western europe and everywhere in the world. So why would the palestinians continue to be in this position of stagnation and lack of support for what is a justifiable aspiration . Think administer i think we might turn back to the head of the gathering. We have a few questions on the audience here. U. S. Leverage has failed to print a more effective it will leverage in your sovereign nation for you to take your politically to threaten to intervene. Israel wouldin be forced to halt its aggression. The justification for this action would be the right to protect. Any other comments . Yes of course. Were you to take unity politically is the what youre representing today to threaten to intervene militarily be forced to halt and then justification for this actionig will be the right to protect. First of all we are all unified. Not just appear on stage but the countries among the things we are unified in his violence is not the answer. Cycle of threatscl and counter threats and violence and counter violence. This enough leverage that started with the leverage has failed its failed because it has not been applied. There is enough leverage in the International Community theres enough leverage in the establish constitutions including the United NationsSecurity Council to achieve this u goal. Transitioning to threats of violence are not the answer. Our commitment is to a peaceful region were going to continue to advocate to have the leverage to our questions and ill hand it over to you with regards to a ceasefire, how would you structure a ceasefire in a way that does not allow for hamas to benefit from the ceasefire . Eight ceasefire by definition is a ceasefire that most both parties agree too. Make sure the ceasefire stands at the ceasefire will do is basically stop the killing stop the destruction and allow for humanitarian supplies to come in and the exchange of hostages. If i may and want to address the fundamental issue that should be the core of our discussion here today. Why dont we have peace in the middle east yet . The whole International Community all of it since 2002 all of the muslim they have been endorsed by it muslim countries. We put an offer on the table for ties with israel in return for ending occupation which is the source and the cause of all of the evil we have seen unfold over the decades. We all agreed to engage in we all engaged we still do not have a two state solution is because of hamas . No. There been a two state solution but there be any justification for violence question what we do not have a two state solution. It was created in 1993 for a transitional. That should have eventually led to palestinian state. That did not happen. What has happened since then its settled settlements by 45 the political narrative shifted from accepting the formula trying to impose a reality. That will not allow for the palestinian state to emerge and we should all remember even before october 7 the departure for the Israeli Government was to parachute over the palestinian issue and have peace assuming it can do that and the palestinians will accept that reality and not demand freedom like the other people. That is the fundamental question. And again why isnt the world asking about israelite politicians who are calling for palestinian genocide . Which truly called for killing the palestinian that is a call for genocide in he is a minister. Said all of gods that must be burned. Was yesterday i believe made such inhumane statements to that as well. We all agreed the two state solution is the right end to this conflicts we should ask which is not allowed or for that solution to be reached . Israel is asking about International Law. Eight u. S. Senator yesterday think or the day before or wrote an article in which he poses a very legitimate question. Will the United States hold israel accountable for u. S. Laws when it uses the weaponry being provided . The answer that reality is showing is no. If any other country in the world that a fragment of what israel has been doing, not just during the war but even before violating every set of International Law. We dont see that even now the israel is killing people, is jeopardizing the future of tuegypt. It is jeopardizing the standing of the u. S. And the world. We are seeing no action other than statements everyones calling on israel to abide by certain legal and moral standards we are seeing nothing. This sense of impunity is allowing israel. T not just with this aggression but to deny its people and other people of the region the right to live in peace and security and have a future. Thank you. The last question there is a lot more the United States should do to pressure israel. But what about the arab states . What can they do . Pro minister would you like to have that question . First of all what is the leverage they would have is i believe a Security Council of the un Security Council by five members. They have now for almost 60 days failed to adopt a resolution and to have a ceasefire. Which is the biggestig leverage. We are always reaching out to our partners and our allies. Trying to convince them this wart needs to stop. We could not apply different standards to different conflicts. What we are seeing unfortunately as i mentioned at the beginning is not enough. And instead of addressing the real issue in stopping this killing we are s questioning. We arenk close to our hard sp at 1 30 p. M. But i want to thank all of you for your time for you for joining us to share your thoughts and observations. It is a stressful time. I will tell you the one thing i can walk away from this discussion with is underscoring the awareness that preoctober 7 world is done. And a new status quo is going to have to be established for the future. Thank you very much. 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