Book that is titled,s, does gender matter. Im happy to be here to talk about the book. I was inspired to write this book by a very strange policy that we have in the city of philadelphia which was our transportation authority. Used to require that everybody who bought a monthly pass had a gender marker either and for taylor asked for female. Its what i call sex identity discrimination within the city and in particular one transgender wome woman was a frd of mine an activist for trans right people in philadelphia brought a lawsuit because when she offered her. They said you cant use this because youre not a woman, not a real woman. So she brought back a pass with it am sticker on it and the same thing happen. In that case its pretty clear that there is no legitimate reason to have our sex identity marked on a pass to get on a bus. In the city of philadelphia this sparked a lot of grassroots activism and to get the sex stickers removed to get rid of them but it never admitted that it had discriminated against charlene or anybody else based on their gender identity. It really got me thinking that if this is ridiculous in this instance, then what about other sex marks ideas that we carry around like a drivers licenses, passports, birth certificates, are they necessary. Host i thought that was compelling in the book and that you open the book with the story and as the here we understand that real stories dont affect you directly. And what it made me think was that every day when shes just simply trying to get to work she had to walk onto a bus and be ready to defend herself and potentially be humiliated and shamed. What i think is so important is to let people know what our sex markers. You also talk very distinctly in this book about sex identity versus gender identity. Can you go into a little bit so we understand it better. Guest i think it is important to draw distinction between sex identity and gender identity. I think theres a pervasive is sexism which means that stereotypes of what men should do or how they should be in luck, stereotypes about how women should look and how they should act, what they should do, but what were talking about Transgender Discrimination what i think are really talking about Something Different which is about the predicate of those stereotypes. So, its not so much about what you should or shouldnt do as a man or woman but do you belong to the category of man or woman in the first place. I think that is an important distinction to draw. Transgender people just like anybody experience traditional sexism but what i point out in the book is there Something Else going on over talking about Transgender Discrimination which is sex identity discrimination which is about belonging to the category themselves. Host so you put forward in the book that we should eliminate those categories in a lot of different places. So from a birth certificate, to college or professional level sports and everything in between her most things in between. I would love to hear from you, that is very forward thinking and having grown up with the boy toys and girl toys and aisles of mass toys stores, we are segregated right down from the moment we come out. I you getting a blue outfit or pink outfit, now there are cakes that are made the revealed cakes we are even now doing that as a society. I wonder so, theres two questions, do you think its getting worse but there is this position of activists were were really trying to break down the stereotypes and trying to break down how you label each other and that were restricting people. To think its getting worse at one level and better at another . Or do you think that its even possible in the society. Those are great questions. I think one of the things i trust and i talked about in the book as i think we should always ask that question, does gender matter. If so, then how, why, what definition are we using. Theres a lot of assumptions built into when we invoke gender. Its one thing to invoke it in a policy so for example an administrative policy a company adopted and had in the handbook. It was impossible to really and ministry in a logical way just because every time we go to the idea of who counts as a man and who counts as a woman theres a lot of subjectivity built into that. It happens when we make love snap decisions. As a Getting Better or worse . I think its probably about the same may be a little worse in terms of Broader Society about the social importance of male and female and what is the advent of ultrasound technology, this big revealing coming into the world so does this fetus have a or of a china and the gender revealed the same time thinking that Getting Better and breaking down the concept of gender. I know that my students the Younger Generation having a gender fluid identity is not anything that faces them for the most part. When were growing up, you had legos now you have pink legos or blue legos depending on your gender rights. So its really an interesting time were living in in the Technology Point is really fascinating linking these gender revealed cakes to the technology that is at hand. Moving forwar forward, you statr argument if you will at the beginning of the book. Can you share your position on why you think this book was so important to write . Guest i think the question which is something i take from antidiscrimination law so whenever you have a Public Policy, any Public Policy you always need a rational basis for, cap you just everybody should wear tshirts on tuesday, the has to be a reason for doing it. Then when you look at race theres a higher standard because historically we have a history of racism and sexism and retreating it in a more serious way. For example when race was invoked or sex it was often used as a basis for discriminating against somebody. You had to have a higher standard. My argument is taken from the but in a more straightforward way to ask that question. Does gender matter in this particular venue and then i go through the different case studies in the book. Always asking that question and not assuming that everybody understands even what were talking about. I think thats a missing part of that equation. So what are some of the things that you learned or discovered while you are going, because you kind it go through documents and then im looking forward to getting to the bathroom discussion on this as well. Many talk about sports and women only your mail only colleges and high schools. Was there any surprising findings that is you are going about this with an open mind that revealed themselves . It was an amazing process to research these different venues with simplistic basic questions. Immediately the question takes you to the rationale for the policy. In each of the cases thats what i was investigating. When were talking about sex markers on government issued ids, were really talking about Fraud Prevention and specifically the government has a legitimate interest in preventing personal Identity Fraud but not a legitimate reason to go into sex Identity Fraud which is your only reason why you would have sex markers on a passport or Something Like that. In that case, there are much better ways of keeping track of us in our personal identities, especially with transgender experience that sex is a changeable characteristic over the course of somebodys life. Its not a good way of keeping track of who we are necessarily. I also point out in the book, just because the majority of people as far as we know right now continue to identify with the sex they were assigned at birth, just because it might be the majority experience doesnt mean we should trample the rights of the minority. When we talked by keeping track of personal identity as to the governments advantage in business id vantage tease better ways of tracking us. Host i was a similar to what you are saying earlier word technology is leading the way in identifying early gender or sex, it could actually remove now that we have fingerprinting or iris readings, it could remove the need for sex markers i could actually end up helping more than hurting. Yes. Im not an expert at those but talking to some people who are i think will be moving towards more forms of digital ids where sex markers will be completely irrelevant. What i think is interesting is that is happening is to stop and consider that philadelphia had this policy in place from 1981. A cause problems not just for transgender people but people who are gender nonconforming in their appearance for many reasons. From a non transgender woman with a short haircut, anything visually that through the bus driver off could trigger this form of discrimination. So the fact that we had it in place for so long and it was so ridiculous that really to me i think it goes to the power and strength of that social custom. Then we see it on almost every bureaucratic formally fill out right after name they want us to check a box on a computer screen so, i think they are connected. So the social custom of doing that is very much with us. I ride the Long Island Railroad and still do in those still do it i was thought that was odd but unwinding those norms, its interesting because at glad, our unwinding mechanism is by education through media. Introducing people who might be gender nonconforming or trends to society at large and i thought that was a compelling part of your book honestly where these case stories and id like to move into the bathroom conversation which could be this entire interview honestly. Theres a lot of background on that. It is a big media conversation and has been for the past year or so. Its really come into the national attention. Id love to start with the story that i felt was compelling in your book that took place in new york city in the west village which is the heart for all purposes of the lgbtq movement. Do you mind sharing that story . Guest this is a story of a farmer, africanamerican, self identified lesbian. Someone who did not self identifies transgender. The story goes that the camp she was in the womens restroom. Somebody had reported her to the manager, a bouncer came same there is a man in the womens bathroom. So a bouncer barged and banged on the door and then there in the toilet stall at the time says you have to get out of he here, theres a man in the womens bathroom. The interesting part of that story is that she offers to show her state id which has a sex marker on it. And f for female. This happened all the time to her as a masculine presenting woman. Prior to my transition at the age of 38 i had years of that. So she was already primed for that scenario. Look at my id. The bouncer in that moment literally say, its neither here nor there. Like i dont want to look at it, doesnt matter to me. You have to get out. She brought a lawsuit that Transgender Legal Defense Fund took uppercase which is interesting because she did not identifies transgender which goes to show that this is something that encompasses a much wider range of people. They settled out of court, the restaurant agreed to change some of the policies basically to say that we are not going to enforce our sex segregated restrooms but will still keep them which i think is a problem. The other thing they did in the settlement was say that they would adopt a general neutral dress code policy for their employees. So lets get into it that, you mentioned that you transitioned at the age of 38. Id love to know from your perspective when it comes to the bathroom issue has that been a challenge for you . In your life pretransition and post transition, can you talk a little bit about that . I am happy to share here. And all shared in the book, i think its really important it was a constant issue from a very young age constantly being told youre in the wrong bathroom especially as an older person i thought it was a strange thing to ask somebody when theyre just washing their hands. I see theres women around and a womens bathroom so there assuming i dont know is very strange. And the question is, who are you versus what are you and the distinction there. Guest there is a legitimate question not when youre using the bathroom of who are you but sometimes when were dealing with identification documents and stuff like that its legitimate task who are you to identify that. But its not the question what are you which is what i got a lot. To rude way of addressing somebody and objectifies them and takes away their humanity. Talking about the Human Element before so i describe it as years of raising encounters coming up against them and in the bathroom scenario and i think the farmer talked about this, it happened so often that she had a whole script at the ready and was prepared. Part of that was to show her state id card. But it wasnt sufficient. The fact that it wasnt taken into consideration by the person goes to the power that individuals have when theyre forcing the policies. That person really should have looked at the idea verified it and said youre in the right price but they had the power to cast it away and not even look at it thats the essence of sex identity discrimination and the essence of Transgender Discrimination. Removing another person who has authority to tell us if we have the ability to exercise arse overwrites. Host that is really powerful the way that you put it. What i found also interesting that i would love for you to share as we go into this i will get into hb2 in North Carolina, but to talk about potty parity. Getting a baseline of history is really fascinating and help to understand how were in the situation in the first place. Back in the 90s there are these lawsuits and they were terms potty parity cases. We were dealing with transgender people accessing restroom but a traditional form of sexism and the inequality between mens and womens restrooms. I experience this for many years and everybody can see there are longer lines for womens restrooms just about any public venue. So there are lawsuits brought to challenge this saying it violates the principle of separate but equal. When i point out is while the case with some of them were successful some of the remedies had to deal with lets give women as many toilet stalls as there are urinals and toilet stalls in the mens room. It still wasnt equal. So what were talking about is on the dimension of time. The time women and girls have to wait to access the restroom and thats an issue as well. So those cases popped up in the 90s and some were settled out of court. My point is the remedies did not fix the problem because he cant really fix that problem. You can have complete equality with sex segregated restrooms. You will always have an unequal situation. Host so, do apply or propose that when it comes to restrooms separate is not equal . That it does go back to that easy oneliner that has been within our society and our social constraints for decades now . Guest yes. I think there is an opportunity for Coalition Building and for women who encountered this discrimination and put up with that. Host can you define sister gender women. Guest thats a new term in our culture to describe someone who is not trans gender. Someone who does not identifies transgender, someone identifies as the sex generation there given at birth so i think there is a real opportunity for us synergy here. Sex gender bathrooms harm not just gender but also they harmed girls and women because they can never be truly equal. s over the past year and a half, it has become a National Conversation legislation that was proposed and passed in North Carolina, house bill two it means ultimately that you need to use the restroom that you were signed with an of born with. So theres always were you going to check ids at the door but it goes back to something you are saying where there are quick assumptions made on some of visually in someone elses given that Authority Based on their interpretation of male and female but to get to this how do we why do you think this is now popping so much. Why is this part of the National Dialogue and conversation . And how do we overcome this . I think your book talks about it so i would love for you to share with us. Some people have talked about it as the new culture war. I think because like in Time Magazine a while back said this is the new civil rights issue. Is something that is not a new issue about transgender people but it has come onto the public radar screen. The bathroom issue in particular, its so weird that this becomes the civil rights it issue or the culture war issue because on the one hand the people who are passing these bills are dismissing the issue that it raises for transgender people but its a stupid issue we shouldnt be wasting time on it but am posing these draconian so number one birth certificates around with them in the first place. Number two, you would have to have a bathroom bouncer is not feasible and nobody wants that. Thats not what the North Carolina legislature was implied. When i think theyre trying to do is the ground for sex thats objectively true but ironically, as in every state including North Carolina transgender people can change the gender markers on the birth certificate. As i point out it doesnt even logically accomplish the transgender exclusion that the state legislator was trying to accomplish. Its not the document where the markers are not stable, then why they trying to grounded in this . Its very strange. Host it is, until people it is often a solution looking for problem. In this society we were going to the restroom with transgender people our entire life and there is no inciting incidents that happen. So it is very strange place. But bathroom has been a war zone for civil rights. Any talk about this in your book when women do not have restrooms in the public space. So goes to the humanity of people. I would love for you to talk to about that and take us back to when women didnt have bathrooms a restrooms up until the civil rights and seeing that line of the bathroom being the battleground. And to dehumanize people. I think you should honor correctly. In order to be a public spear Everybody Needs consistent access to a restaurant. So when you dont have access to a public restroom you cant be in public at all. Its a very effective way of excluding somebody from the workplace, from schools and it has been used in that way, both in terms of africanamericans and for women. So female pioneers in various industries often talk about having to travel to another floor of their building to use a designated restroom because there wasnt one convenient. Its just another form of inequality. Its connected to what were talking about earlier the time that will have to spend going there. Host i dont know if you saw hidden figures, that was a big moment in that film when she needed to it was costing her at work and nobody could find her because she had to run two or three buildings over. Guest exactly. That was so pregnant and i love what they did with that in that movie because it also showed complete ignorance on the part of her male bosses and coworkers of where you going everywhere, they were literally asking her. So humiliation of having to say that im actually going to use the bathroom because theres not one here for me. So its discrimination so many levels to say you have to go to another building, and then also the people a people with the privilege and power dont even take it into consideration and never thought about it. That even though they never saw her so i think it was brilliantly done in that film. Host how do we solve against this . Do we desegregate the bathroom for male and female . And how do we go about, theres one thing from physically doing and then there is rewiring the culture around it. I can think of great examples where its just a bathroom and we have that at work that there are gender neutral bathrooms. But im wondering on one thing there are many others out there from Football Games to schools, and how do we rethink this and how do we unwind this . Guest as you are talking about their such historical momentum about keeping the practice in place even if it doesnt serve us well. What i would like to see happen is for us to design and build Public Restrooms very differently than we do now. We have examples of this in philly and manhattan were its a space issue but a lot of restaurants have genderneutral bathrooms with a have a series of individual toilet stalls floortoceiling partition say give people privacy and then theres a common area in the middle of sinking mirrors and people do it they need to do and wash their hands and go back to enjoying their meal. That has not phrased a lot of problems. People havent really complained about it because they dont even realize its happening in a sense because they have their privacy. It doesnt seem like a big deal. That will be my ultimate dream. There are architects working at this to propose it. Unfortunately we keep on building bathrooms the same way according to building codes and is like that so some of that needs to change as well. The ultimate goal would be to build it differently and get an architectural solution. Host thats amazing. As we see it roll out and as we are all encountering, ive been to restaurants or bars like the and its not a big deal. The sunrises, so i would love to know also, if we do that where do you see this road going . This past legislative cysts weve seen a number of the bathroom bills come up in the conversation came up again during that time to think the Public Education has been there . Do we need to increase Public Education . Guest i do think we need to increase Public Education around the issue. The one point that conservatives keep coming back to is this thing that is never happened which is that trans gender woman we go into a womans public restroom and sexually assault a girl or woman the venue. We dont have any evidence that has ever happened. Its a total misunderstanding about Transgender Identity and as you say, often sometimes you dont even know were sharing the restroom was someone who strands a nobody gives me a second look because im gender conforming and nobody seems to care. I think the education around the issue, the way that womens restrooms are built right now its not a space place. So women have been in to get assaulted. My own feeling about that is that a lot of times it happens because someone who wants to commit such a crime knows theres likely only going to be women in this venue and its built in a way were its secluded. So what we talked about earlier having genderneutral bathrooms with toilet stalls and sinks has a benefit for more safe environment actually. Then people are circulating in and out. I think its the way that we should go. So lets switch gears a little bit, i must say that ensure that i went to an all Womens College and feel that i benefited greatly from that experience. You talk about sex segregated schooling. I would love to hear your porn of you on that in your argument in the book and how you think we should march forward. Guest i am a big fan also of private Womens Colleges. I think they have served an important historical function and still do today. For many reasons. I started to look into the challenges the schools were encounter this has to do with transgender women who wanted to apply and be accepted but also people who had been admitted as female and had transition to mail during the time there so those things were happening. It goes more towards the elite colleges because theres most of stake there in terms of application. To push them to clarify what they mens by women. So goes back to the question of whenever you have a policy that is about sex classification you cant just assume that Everybody Knows what that is. In the past weve made those assumptions so its happened in the schools is they have adjusted their policies to say maybe trans women are invited to apply as well but theyve gone the furthest maintaining that its Womens College. The only group cannot apply this man who identify as male at the time of application. So again someone designated as male at birth and who at the time of application identifies as male. When i thought about it sometimes it makes sense that you have to have some form of exclusion if youre going to maintain your identity as a Womens College but i dont think thats true. I think you could maintain the goal of gender equity and female leadership, some of the feminists aspirations and goals. Theres also a benefit for bringing that category into that environment and having them be very aware of those goals. So those are some of my thoughts about that i introduce the term, think that we talk about historically black college and university i think we should maybe adopt something similar and talk about historically Womens Colleges. Because now hbc you cannot discrimination, they cannot exclude you because of your race. I think maybe we should move in a similar direction with gender. Is it interesting how its all interconnected, race, gender, identity. You talk about race markers which i was not aware of. I found it fascinating as well to learn about race markers. You have a specific point of view though i would love for you to share what you shared on the book on what our race markers in your point of view on them. Guest talking about like race markers on birth certificates. Host similar to sex markers and how they were used to identify people of color and then how they were removed and whether or not that was the right thing. Guest they were removed because of civil rights because it goes back to something we talked about earlier, historically when you have had race in a policy its been for enough various reasons, to discriminate against somebody. So there is a push to get them off drivers licenses used to have them. Birth certificates, still to some degree depends on where youre born what the policies are. But now theres also been a movement to say maybe we should have race markers back on drivers license to deal with issues of racial profiling by the police. Because it raises a conundrum that if you will have any remedial policy whether its affirmativeaction or dealing with racism or sexism, you have to have data. You have to know about parties and that encounter some people have pushed to say we should put them back on the drivers license so we can have the data to show whos getting pulled over more frequently, whos been mistreated. Host doesnt need to be on the actual license or put into the reporting system . , i think thats an interesting perspective because these identifiers are used both in a positive way or can be or in a negative way. Guest im glad you brought that up. It goes to the question that we dont deal with as a society about mib and asked to self identify racially with respect to my gender or are we talk about how other people see me. How other people see me is really the crux of discrimination. Its irrelevant if i for example in biracial, and half black and half white, identify as that but im seen in many situation as someone his black or latino and i am treated according to that. So thats another thing that all of our policy should really stipulate. When you fill out the census are we being asked to think about whom i really and how do i think about myself or is it more political about keeping track of data around discrimination. Host thats an interesting point you bring up around the census. In this Current Administration there is a civil rights fight to have lgbtq people identified on the 2020 census. On a very short time it has been removed from that. I would love your viewpoint on that identifier and what does the census serve . Is it important to be counted and when you do count by race and male and female, should those things be removed or are they important . I teach courses on antidiscrimination law and Public Policy and africanamerican political thought. I often start the semester by doing a census exercise where we look at the racial categories in particular have changed every census every ten years weve had Something Else going on. It tells us thats not a stable thing its socially constructed and in flux. When it comes to gender and sexual orientation, i think its important to ask on the census to get the data. Host so do you think there should be open gender or fill in the blank . How do you do that . Guest i think its incumbent upon the federal government to lay out why theyre asking these questions the first place. To give some guidance to people when youre filling out forms. There is a next line opportunity and i talk about it one of the chapters for us to get some Public Health data because we havent talked about the medical healthcare part of this issue, really what doctors and Public Health people are concerned about is the provision of Good Health Care to individual people. And trans identity can mean different things. If you really wanted to know if someone has ovaries are prostate, i think you should really ask the specific questions. So the census is an opportunity in my view because we do it every ten years. We get updated information if the government is interested in that. We have to think together of what are the good purposes i what are the nefarious purposes and how do we want to guide people when theyre filling out the census or even at the dentist office. Host it really is the premise of your book of wire you doing this. And now says reading your book im so aware of it. Its interesting because california is looking at the third gender on the drivers license. There are some india recognizes their gender. So going back to the earlier conversation where there is movement and acknowledgment that we dont all fit in buckets and theres more fluidity to people and their identities their sexual and gender identities. Im curious, do you think based on what youre writing about, is that helpful having california recognize the third gender . What is that actually thats a now theres a another box versus, get rid of the boxes. Guest i want to get rid of the boxes. California or any other state doesnt need to have them on the drivers license. I dont even think we should have them on our birth certificates. Although going back to the Public Health issue think the government cannot keep track of designated of those male or female at birth. If you keep track of the aggregate data without putting information on a specific birth certificate thats what i would advocate for. But yes, and oregon is about this as well. The problem with that is not everybody who is transgender wants to be in the category, it opens up the question that we havent talked about which is a variety and this umbrella term. Guest lets get into the act because its bringing up intersex, above for you to give a definition of intersex and you have definition around that in the book. I think that broadens this conversation. Guest intersex is a term we now use to describe people who are born with a combination of sexrelated physiological characteristics. In terms of reproduction organs or genitalia, hormones, chromosomes, anything that is not dyadic. So now are talking about those identities and sometimes they correspond as trans and sometimes they dont. But under that umbrella is transgender is a term you people who are gender conforming female to male or male to female and then there are people who are non binary who may be identify as both male or female or neither. So its interesting that people have further Legal Definition of non binary gender and i think thats whats within california and oregon. In oregon it was someone who is non binary self identifies who brought a lawsuit in the state of oregon is responding. The person won this lawsuit. Guest its interesting because we really some data on the next generation someone else that we did not release the gender data just because we have not had a second to do it. But it talks about how much more the kids today identify on the binary and dont want to be checking a box. I think at a level your book and the questions you bring up and will get into a little bit of the worksheets because i think theyre important. This next generation is there and a lot of ways they dont identify as strictly male or female. So there are starting to unravel the social norms that you have to be one or the other. When we release it there is a cover story on Time Magazine because its a big population to be looking at the world so differently. Also its fascinating about then its left to the parents, or the parents have been given this power to decide someone sex identity, or at that young age within a certain number of months. Guest and discussion and being guided by doctor and at a medical setting a big push for intersex civil rights has been around not having these surgeries performed on infant without their consent. Any surgery are basically deciding if there boy or girl. And so the thought historically was that preventing pain and suffering from this person later in life because theres so many examples of what people were born into sex and decisions that was made for them that they could decide from themselves and also the with the issue i was just talking about why you have to make someone choose in the first place. Host if you took the box off the birth certificate it wouldnt even be a limiting question necessarily so just unwinding some of it it is so black or white right now. Guest and why at that moment is it so important bureaucratically to solve this issue when we know some people feel like they are gender fluid that someone whether they make it compelled. Host we dont have much time. I think one of the many brilliant things about your book is that you actually give the tools to people to start to really think about this into their worklife link to their situation. So for organizations you lay out a worksheet. Can you talk a little bit about that i might so important . Guest thank you for asking. I do my consulting work with businesses and organizations helping them usually because they want to be trans inclusive but theyre not sure what to do. So basically the argument from the book is in the worksheets as well. I have them do something called the gender audit where either they think through it and all of the places where they evoke gender and sex in their administrative policies. And then asking that question on the worksheet, if we take these policies and address what men and women, is it necessary to invoke gender here, whats the legitimate goal youre trying to reach your. Having some range of professional dress is a legitimate thing for an Investment Bank to stipulate. But in that example you dont actually have to invoke gender. You can give a range of clothing examples to talk about professionalism. So sitting down with people to say should we get rid of that policy, what would happen if we did that, for going to keep it can we adjust it . Do we need to define how we talk about gender or sex. Be very transparent about it so wrapping up, i think that the question of those most often doesnt but when it does. Host what are some of those examples of when does gender matter . Guest in the issues were talking about affirmative action, when youre seeking to remediate some historic disadvantage are gender equity in an Academic Department or university or student body, to have certain goals that are based on gender equity then you need to take into accounting men and women. When you do that you need to then ask what definition of i using. My just assuming i know based on my own understanding . My asking the person about their self identity and some people have done this when they best about sex. They do a great job of this and include their intake forms. Host i would love for people to hear what a good example of this. Guest its a good example where they say for insurance purposes they have to have a legal sex. But then they go on to say but were interested in how you self identify. Heres something you can tell us if you want something about your own gender identity. So your legal name havent been able to change for whatever reason, what you want to be called when we interact with you . So brilliant and needed, gets to the heart of what providing good medical care is about witches taking care of the individual patient. To do that you have to be able to communicate effectively, you have to have trust and respect. The lack of that is what trips up a lot of trans people when they going to the setting. Guest i think that. Host i think thats a Perfect Place to end. At the heart about his humanity and treating people like humans. Ultimately that is what youre talking about, giving people their humanity back and not shaming them. And giving us a roadmap on how to do that. Thank you for your book and for your time and the thoughtfulness behind it. Ever sitting down with me. Thank you. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television company. It is brought to today by your cable or satellite provider. Book tv recently visited capitol hill to ask a members of congress what they are reading the summer. Congressman rick alec, what are you reading . Im wrapping up a book, if you can keep it. Was talking about if you can its about the closeddoor medium and he said we have a minority or republican he said madam, we have a republic if we can keep it. Im following that up with a book by ralph dolinger. Hes with capital ministries and its called rebuilding america. Is the biblical truths that come out of the scriptures. We all have to live by a code and it talks about what is your code. What are your values . And these are things we talk about in business only talk about it here on the house floor. What is the code of this country . I believe the country was founded on judeochristian values. I believe that is what the heart of our constitution. So i think the book is going to give me information on how to help folks and direct them. To find members of Congress Sharing books . Yes, every meeting im in somebody will say hey, you have to read this. Although the one most recently as the art of the deal by our president. Book tv wants to know what youre reading. Send us your Summer Reading list via twitter by book underscore tv or posted to her Facebook Page book tv on cspan2, television for serious readers. Know about tv i want to introduce you to english professor at the university of minnesota. Its called in america on freedom. What is your goal of this book . My goal was to figure out the set of stories that i found