Transcripts For CSPAN2 After Words 20140803

Have backfired in the economic regard. Despite changing the government they did and get tha the economc growth that they were hoping for. In tunisia they may get it that is to say the statistics after 2011. If they do that thats not so bad, but certainly they thought this was a way to approve the economy. I think in the longterm, they are right. That is to say that corruption was so bad that its discouraging for the foreign investment. And i think the new governance that are coming in are weak and inexperienced for the most part that is the message that they need. Thats maybe with a lookout in that regard and they were right. Thank you for your good questions and appreciate coming out. We will go to the signing now. Thanks so much. [applause] let me get a minute to get this taken down and then we will go ahead and get the signing going. [inaudible conversations] next on booktv after words with guest host theresa, former white house chief information officer. This week cheryl and her first book Police State Usa held the nightmare is becoming our reality. And if the the Washington Times reporter argues the governments desire to monitor and control the public is greater now than ever before. A traffic light cameras, drone monitoring and more amounts to the police state that must be rolled back. This program is about one hour. It is a pleasure to be here with you today and i enjoyed reading your book Police State Usa. I am a junkie by any church and i have the opportunity to talk with people about how to protect the data. And we have got so many modernday privacy issues coming out and what i love about what you do with the book it is so well researched and thoughtprovoking so im really excited to talk with you today and have a conversation about what the people need to know. One of the things i thought was interesting was the nsa revelations and i wrote a little about it i that in my book privn the age of the big data of the consumers didnt realize the businesses collect a lot of data about them and so they are cooperation whether you call it cooperation or coercion, im not sure, is that what sort of compelled you to write the book or are there other driving forces that youve got. Thank you for being with me today. Im glad to hear that youve enjoyed the book. Covering the local level of the government you really get a handson experience on how policies and regulations impact just average americans. And watching the people that purchased the property withave h the hopes of building their dream homes come into the local permitting offices and request the right to build their homes and properties and a certain county that i cover was almost like it was an environmentalists ground zero battleground. It was driven by the environmental regulation policy. They didnt want to build anything. It is about the parcel of property that they purchased into the local zoning people denying them. They had no appeals left and i remember them leaving the women in particular in tears as she going to do without property. I was always keyed into issues like that. I am an american and the constitution is a big deal i read it just for fun sometimes and so i was always kind of laser and on issues like that. So that is having four children and i worry about the state of america and the future that we are leaving them. Host you bring up the children and youre absolutely right its almost as if what the Founding Fathers fought so hard for through the clicks and choices and some choices we dont even know we are making weve given up those freedoms and what i love that youve done in the book is youve actually quoted the Founding Fathers before each chapter and when you read the quotes it really does relate to the chapter. So it shows the principles to the Founding Fathers, the constitution and the country was founded on even though the Technology May change, the principles stated same. Its kind of like the bible if you are a christian or believer. The basic principles dont change. The constitution isnt a leaving of breathing document as al gore would intend. There are certain Core Principles and to me, the Founding Fathers set our rights come from god, not government and if you think about it its a very powerful principle and one that i fear is flipping away leading to the police state by usa that we have right now. Once you recapture that he ascended tyou sendit to the patg fathers intended. Host you talk about the places you may not even know you are being tracked. So, for example mannequins and my coauthor and i talked about the same you mentioned in your book about one of the things people might not realize is when you drive up to the Shopping Mall and if there is surveillance going on your license plate might be photographed and then you walk into the Department Store, your phone is talking to the wifi in the Department Store and now they know that youre there and the next piece is the mannequins are actually watching you and trying to decide female or male. They may even try to decide ethnicity. All t the stored in the database to serve us better. Then you add the various new technology coming out and this is what im sure people say are you kidding me . You added to that. They are going to be adding listening features to the mannequins. Talk about some of the risks and concerns and what was the sort of awe, went that this is going on in the local Department Stores in europe and america. Guest rates when it crosses the line from the stores posting notices and displayed in a prominent places so that shoppers are aware they are being recorded to the point you have no idea as a shopper and your movements and conversations are being recorded and for what reason you dont know. Some of the technology that they have in place now as you pointed out the mannequins have moved from the cameras in the iq also recording devices planted in the head oheads of the mannequin and justified reason for that is because the stores want to know the shoppers discussions. That way they can gauge what are the best seller bestsellers ans need to be moved off the shelf. The big problem is most shoppers dont know. When you walk into the store its not like the signs say this dummy is recording you. You dont know that and when it is happening to you in real li life. Host i dont remember walking in the door and having been handed me a disclosure statement saying by the way, you may not only be photographed for security reasons but i kind of want to know what youre looking at and second of all im going to snoop in on your personal private conversations, so i think that is one thing that people need to be really aware of. Sometimes companies have an appetite for data that helps the customers loyalty. A stock things in the store that i want. But, you know, i think that asked what price . We know that all technology as possible. We have seen the best and brightest. And the data in the wrong hands could be potentially dangerous. And as we learned what enforcement may want to request the data into you can see things progressing that way where there is recorded conversations were photographs while people are shopping. Guest in the private field when you are a shopper it showed at the very least be given a heads up what information is being collected. Most people know about their zip code and support for the cameras cameras that are hidden also have new technology that aims on your iphone if you are a big spender lets swarm on him or her and to get them to buy more. They appreciate the convenience but you are not given a choice whether they participate in it or not. There is a database that is being kept and it isnt just the data that is floating around. Theres actually some sort of database where your information is setting into the Law Enforcement or the government surveillance intel and so forth. Host if we are innocent until guilty especially for minding our own business. Lets stay on the topic of the facial technician because you mention in the book. Lawenforcement is using facial recognition, not just a few but a lot of states at the dmv there is a lot of added bonus going on while you are doing your license renewal they are asking you in some cases not to smile coming into the reason being is that your photograph now has a dual purpose. Its not just about your drivers license anymore. All this data is being fed in some instances into the state data centers. Guest because of counterterrorism intel at this data centers people expected him to it for Law Enforcement and to fight crime somewhere at the dmv and youre not smiling into the camera because they tell you not to commit you need to be aware that this is yet another form of Data Collection, and you should be concerned or at least curious where is this going to end up. Host at the dmv you dont have a choice. You need to get your license. You can go to the state governor and say you dont like their practice and speak up. You dont have a choice. But you do have a choice on the pictures that are put out on the internet on social media and thats one of those important things i think consumers need to realize is that you can take a little bit of your privacy back. Maybe you have to go through the state process and make sure the voice is heard. What else is accompanying you on the photo. Lets go into the bank because weve talked a little bit about how theres some technologies how as consumers we dont remember being given a disclosure here is how im going to use your data thank you very much but we dont even know the listing of the photographing is going on. And what i liked about what you talked about with the bank is for that struggle a half in the modern age. And i remember when i first started thinking, i could not believe that we couldnt call on our own customers on the Technology Side doing the platform for marketing. And the first thing we have to look out for the marketing is for us or somebody else. So they have the duty of care if i collect data about you i have to disclose to you but im going to do with it and i also have to protect it. I have this duty of care. But what is interesting i think a lot of people dont realize how much the banks are told and its not necessarily in the disclosure statement. If you make a deposit because of the antimoney laundering and the potential suspicious transactions, the bank has to report you no matter how innocent and how great a customer you are. They must report that transaction. They also have to report when you are signing up for credit they have to ask a lot more questions than maybe they would normally ask because they truly know you because they have to actually prove to different bureaus within the government that they truly did their customer due to the gents on you. Host talk a little bit about the findings you were doing research on the banks. And some of the things the banks are being told they have to collect about you. And then literally turn around and hand it over to other departments and agencies. Guest you rightly described whats going on with things and they are kind of being put in a crunch on the one hand how you know, the federal government is bearing down on the banks and saving for the counterterrorism reasons and so forth. You must collect information on your customers. But they arent really giving them a checklist of questions to ask. And if the banks dont ask the proper questions and something ends up being the customer is doing something illegal banks could be fined for that severe kind of a tight spot right now. You have the customer going into the bank i remember when i first started thinking they used to draw you in by giving you a free toaster or signup and you get something for free. And all of that friendly neighborhood banking relationship is going on. Now the banks want to know more than just your name, Social Security number, data and so forth. They want to know where you work and where you do business, where the business you work at does business and the business you work at does business and in the overseas locations they may pry into that. And the reason is they are trying to do their Due Diligence to keep the fed off their backs basically, but whats happening is the average american is feeling like they are suspected of a crime when all they are trying to do is open a bank account. You almost have to think are they trying to marry me or open an account to deposit my money. Its kind of the third degree that youre putting me through. You are a mom, i am a mom. You talk about this in the book and i talked about it in my book of appearance really need to understand how when you put your children in the care of others, what may be going on in the name of security, or in the name of grade tracking for your kids. So as it relates for the school youre going to record all of their grades online. We just saw a young man who his friend, some of them paid him to change their grades and while he was in there he changed his own and hes been busted for it. They might say thats really just sort of high school hijinks. He shouldnt have done that. It was wrong. He will pay the price. With no harm, no foul. He was cut. But then theres the other piece thats been collected about the children they are being used at the schools now and in some regards it is touted as this is a great way to make sure that your child gets on the right bus and for us to notify you. Am i reading that thinking what happened to the teacher or volunteer standing there saying good morning. Why just because technology can do it doesnt mean you should. And you talk a little bit about the scanning thats going on. Talk about when you were researching this as a mom but also as a reporter with were some of the privacy concerns that hit you that you felt like people dont really know about this and they need to know . With for some of the things you thought i have to cover this in the book, the Biggest Issue for me was not telling of the pare parent. This was dressed in 2013. When the child would board the bus they were told to us and until the light turns blue. If the information the school had on appearance aside, the residents and home address and it sends an alert your child is on the bus and on the way home. Unfortunately, that school ended up being committed parents ended up being outraged at what that school is because the person that is supposed to send the notification will let them know that their child is going to be scanned. These children were scanned on the bus and it was like first, second and third grade. The parents were outraged and rightfully so. What shocked me was the fact this could go on and its technology thats necessary. Second off, technology where the parents dont need to give some input and the opportunity to say yes or no before its implemented. Also what shocked me is the stuff like this thats going on with the spare regularity around america right now is few and far between the cases as they are emerging technology and its becoming a lot more abundant at our schools. You feel like sometimes the argument is this is in the name of security or convenience. There was also Something Else that you mentioned whether it is paying for School Lunches or getting kids on the right bus were the wrong bus which i survived getting on and off the bus i dont know about you without scanning my iris or turning over my dna to anybody. They went out into the other schools that are using it and maybe to think thats great. Its the latest and greatest technology to protect my children and they are just not really thinking about all the technology that is packable and this country that i dont know its not my school its been outsourced. Has my child i scanned. Whether it is for healthcare. Whenever that iris scan gets tied to somebody else might have the code in the technology to literally fake out the scanner. And i think that is also part of the danger is people are not thinking about there is the privacy aspect on the front end of the need to have full disclosure but on the back end if somebody steals this data and it is your biometric about you, how are you going to cover . Somebody shoving your credit card information. If its for the security, and other great argument is that its for the children. So you can always make a worstcase argument, the worstcase argument to justify any action on the part of the government. And with technology and the iris scanning and biometrics and stuff like that often times its a worstcase scenario. As a parent that is something that you need to be aware that your local school could be looking at this technology as a way of securing your child. Guest universe and you have to say to your children i want you to respect authority unless they ask you to give up your biometric data then please call me or text me. Right . Speaking of the disclosure when you think about kids and we think about, you know, talking to them about the different aspects and the birds and bees talk somebody mentioned drones, they talk about the hummingbird model of the drones and theres also that these that fly around. The fact a lot of times when we hear the word drove a lot of times they are official military views or Law Enforcement protection devices and they dont realize they are literally as small and as blended into nature as a bee or bird at this rate. And some of the challenges with anybody can have a drone. You are righ right about an eled official who literally looked out her window and came facetoface with a drone. Talked a little about her experience with that and maybe that was a good wakeup call for a lot of us. Its funny because issues like drones and privacys cross the political parties. Often times they have the same concerns. And in this particular instance, it was senator dianne feinstein. She was in her home i think it was. She looked up her window and there was a drone and she took that experience to congress and warned her Congressional Colleagues to go slow on the Drone Technology. I think that that force is basically out of the barn and i think at this point there isnt really a lot people can do to slow down as far as the private sector does. The congress has passed the fcc to come up with policies for commercial use of drones by 2015. Amazon has already indicated that it wants to use drones to make product delivery. I think there was a pizza train chain that wanted to use drones. People are going to look at that drones coming in and delivering products as kind of cool things and they are going to use that and they are going to be, you know it is kind of a cool idea Science Fiction comes alive when Law Enforcement comes in and wants to use the same to conduct surveillance operations, i think thats where people are going to be a little bit more alarmed. Host you talk about also that we have cases where we have actually arrested citizens using drones. I mentioned some of the challenges in the book that i did and what was interesting when i was doing the research, there is a Cottage Industry that was handing out antidrone hoodies and glasses. You said smiling can help in the Drone Technology. But wearing a hoodies when a drone is targeted on you for some kind of conflict isnt probably going to do it. Talk about some of the conflicts that we have had where again in the name of security there was a gentle man that basically kidnapped a boy off of the bus and they used the Drone Technology to safely rescue him. As a parent, my heart goes out to the parents and i say that sounds like a correct and reasonable use of technology. Then you talk about another case where cows started eating another farmers seed grain into that stuff is expensive and cows eat a lot and he ended up in a standoff with the police come in drones got involved and basically the police were able to get because interest the family. Talk a little bit about these two very different scenarios. One of them you are rescuing a life and you are going into borrowing a drone to get involved in the situation and what are some of the slippery slope dangerous points for us from the privacy perspective . Guest it is a slippery slope. That is a good way to phrase it. On the one hand, using the drones for overseas conflicts that brings with it a host of questions about the moral ethics of waging the war that weve drones on american soil, thats something that we use them for criminal reasons as you pointed out. A boy kidnapped off the bus and held underground in the bunker for several days. People can relax on that and they can understand that if this guy. There were also drones used to root out Christopher Dorner i believe was his name and that was just in the last year and base all the feasibility. Some american citizens so the justification for that. But when you use the drones for the environmental reasons a reat the epa has indicated that it might want to do to scour the fuel to make sure that the farmlands and the crops and so forth arent violating the environmental law that might be where people would like to draw the line. When you use them for surveillance types of technology where the police dont need to obtain a warrant they just send drones up in the sky and collect data or the camera wait a minute they dont have a warrant to search my house but you are saying they want to search over my house and my yard they can get a drone without a warrant . If the police dont have the right rate not trightbrace noe drones for Surveillance Technology for the most part if they want to use the drone to conduct a surveillance operation, they can use one of the custom border patrols. They can ask permission for the custom border patrols to conduct the surveillance operation. But in the years to come, as they become more commonplace and americans become more accepting of the usage if the Police Department are able to use the drones, one of the slippery slope questions to ask is when it is flying above the Properties Common to know, maybe looking for a certain suspect that recording the data all the same it is sweeping up all types of data that is not pertinent perhaps to that suspect. So you could be standing nearby, you could be walking down the street and your images are being captured on that video in the drone. And that is certainly something that most americans may not think of when they give a thumbsup to using drones to fight criminals. But on the other hand, you know, you have to think where is my data going if its captured on the drone of Law Enforcement is going to have the data. Host you bring up Something Interesting because didnt we just get on googles case when the street view was taking pictures and they picked up our Home Wifi Networks and ids connecting to it and everybody said wait a minute thats not right you shouldnt be doing that i dont care what it is youre trying to do and what greater that you think that belongs to, but youve crossed the line. We said that a private Sector Company i would think that we would see the same thing to the lawenforcement or even ive seen where they said that some counties have used the Drone Technology with google street view without asking for permits. So trying to tax people and fine people you say to the point where do we draw the line. That brings up an interesting point. A lot of times when we look at whether it is a president ial election, when we are looking at elected officials in washington or elected officials have held often times we talked about either the national or the local economy. We talk of the national security, we may talk about local issues in the local election. Do you think the third thing on the list might need to be around how are you going to protect the citizens in the digital age . I definitely think that should be a question that the candidates for office should be asking and they should be prepared to answer. This is a moving target and sends even my book came out, theres a lot more instances that had they occurred at the time of my research i would have included it in this book. The advantage of the data and emerging technology is something thats hard to put that genie back in the bottle once its out there. So you need to plan ahead. You need to have in place all of these fees and regulations guiding how some of the technology should be used and it should always start with getting the public aware of how the technology is going to be used. The department shouldnt have drones in the closet they can take out whenever they want, whenever there is a crime being committed. They should have actual policies and guidelines. What kind of crimes are they allowed to use the crimes for, what do they have to pursue to launch the drones in the air and what happens to that data after it is collected and there should be oversight on how the police use that after and what they do with it if its going to be destroyed there should be a watchdog to make sure it is destroyed so you are right some of the candidates need to have in their mind how are they going to treat the data going forward. Its interesting you were mentioning the law and if you think about it, facebook, twitter, instead ran the mannequins at the mall, all of these things that you and i are talking about the most of those technologies are in the last ten years into the last time that our country has to significant privacy or cybersecurity legislation as it was 12 years ago, and so all these things we just talked about didnt even they were not even really into consumers i were the public eye being used on a massive scale and now they are. What do you think are the implications in the law . We should be careful when we created a new mall and deliberate when we do that. But you almost wonder what the outdated by the time we pass it in somehow do we think about the law in this digital age so that they can be dynamic and fluid and gave enough guidance so people dont step out of bounds and we have the right balance on the individual rights and privacy. Guest thats going to be a hard challenge to solve because when you talk about the Data Collection and surveillance type of technologies right off it raises a red flag of the privacies and civil rights and those two things rarely had down the same path. The biggest concern people should be aware of is the one where a citizen should put their focus in developing some real regulations and principals to go by is in lawenforcement because the Law Enforcement has at their Disposal Technology where they can write a vehicle down the street and peer into other vehicles and peer beneath Peoples Clothing to see what they are carrying on them and all that can be done without a warrant. The police have at their Disposal Technology that is emerging right now that helps them predict crimes before they occur. And not only prediction for the police to get a red flag or hands up to predict them so the police can actually respond to those areas of suspected crime before it even occurs. That is straight out of big brother George Orwell writings and so forth so when people think of the data they need to think first and foremost what is the data being used for comic and i be given a heads up without compromising the security of the nation and if so, people need to be in control of how it is allowed to be used specifically in th and most alay with the local Police Departme department. You definitely have hit on some really great areas right now for the lawenforcement. And its tough because theyve got loved ones saying i need you to work this case. Youve got elected officials sometimes saying this can never happen again when you look at something as horrible as the Boston Marathon bombing and people say how did you miss the clues and dont ever let anything like this happen again. You see the next Boston Marathon and you see the surveillance is completely different. And i think that we all agree we dont like tragedies like that. But you mentioned in the book that sometimes it is both events. Its those tragic events where in that moment people want action. And sometimes they dont realize when they ask for quick action they may be actually trading off a little bit of their privacy. You talk about what you sort of discovered when you are looking at your research and its interesting how you found the timing of when things have been allowed to occur in people said of course thats okay because the timing was sort of following a tragedy. Guest specifically the Boston Marathon. I include that in my book because history will tell and people can make up your own mind whether the Law Enforcement was justified in locking down the city into some of the actions that they did to root out the two terrorists in the egregious action. But what i wanted to make clear is if enough here is generated among people, then it opens the door to what you just said, all types of civil rights infractions. With the Boston Marathon bombing what you saw is the city completelcompletely locked downw enforcemenlawenforcement goingo peoples homes without a warrant Holding People out at gunpoint, videos on youtube are posted of this. There were different stories told in the weeks and months to follow of how peoples civil rights and privacies were completely trapped and it was all in the name of security and routing out to terrorist suspects. You can make up your own mind whether or not it was justified but you have to realize that if enough here is generated, these types of things really can happen in america. And i remember specifically one story about an elderly woman who was in her hom home and at the e rang and she answered it and was told by the voice on the other enend to answer the door. When she answered the door she looked out and there were scores of Armed Police Officers holding weapons. What happened and we didnt learn about this until weeks later somebody had called and said that the terror suspect was in her home and so the Police Responded that he grabbed her and they put her in detention alternately in a psychiatric unit for behavioral profiling and so forth. She finally got out and there was no crying or anything like that. But its just something people need to be aware when there is fear generated often times, you know, your security is the first thing you reach for and civil rights you could care less about. Host in that particular case there was crowd sourcing going on. This is where the data could be helpful. People are coming through the information and booking at the surveillance, looking at things being posted and they are also in the misinformation. They forget there is a reason why you have the media. The media will be a trusted source and they may not move at the pace that people posting on the internet do. However, they typically dont release the data until its been in bed. During all of that there was a young man that was wrongly accused and literally it took them a long time to recover from being wrongfully accused and he may have that haunting him. I would say unless it was something important on your hard drive and you cant get it back but then somebody has it somewhere. But in that particular case, the big data if used the wrong way joined the wrong conclusions that can be very dangerous. Succumbing you mentioned the privacy issues editors obviously that issue for the elderly woman that is awful and then a young man who is unjustly accused by the public through crowd sourcing is a pretty scary thought. Guest and its something that americans need to be aware of. It can happen and when it happens to some appeals it is easier to dismiss. When it happens in your neighborhood it hits a little closer to home. Then all of a sudden you get it and sometimes you are fighting for your privacies and civil rights. Guest when you saw the headline about the focus first on google but i dont think thats going to end there. Were you surprised to see them really come down on that sort of right to be forgotten and really they are going to be enforcing it. Were you surprised to see that happen and do you think that the u. S. Will follow the course or do you think that we will sort of wait and watch and see what happens . I wasnt surprised at the actions. I dont think that america will follow suit. I dont think we are going to have any policies in place that clampdown on the intel or intelligence agencies together, security information. I think there may be some lipservice paid to the politically correct, to basically called the American Public to say we are not going to look at information on you without a warrant or do another repeat where we are sifting through the information but i dont think america is going to clampdown. Hispanics are your prediction is dont hold your breath waiting for the right to be forgotten in the u. S. Stanek exactly. Host when it comes to looking at the data and the Data Collection thats going on, you mentioned in the book the fact that while you are looking for the bad guy. But a lot of innocent bystanders naturally gets pulled in with that or it is the pictures of the location, Surveillance Video of the location where there is drone footage, photos of every Single Person that gets a license at the dmv all of that going into the database youve done nothing wrong. What are some of your concerns after giving this research and just sort of maybe looking ahead with the fact that all of us minding our own business that our information whether it is or photographs, whether it is over liking on facebook, searches on google or picture at the dmv all of that data having the opportunity to be aggregated and used what are some of your privacy concerns as you look ahead to the future . Guest it turns average american citizens int into susps by all levels of government, and thats something that our society isnt based on. We have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. And its kind of a creepy feeling if you are not doing anything wrong at the same time the government is regarding you as a possible suspect. Thats my problebut my problem s collection is that on the one hand we are collecting all kind of data across all of the levels of government in business and private sector and government sector but at the same time we are not really doing anything common sense to protect the security of america and those types of initiatives that would be so simple to take. For instance at the same time we are collecting data on missing americans we are letting the borders remain porous and if i were a terrorist right now, the ideal place for me to be would be coming up to our southern border because it is porous right now and i think thats something the government could crack down on. So a lot of the common sense type of security measures that the government could take are being overlooked. But at the same time, a lot of the ones that seem to put innocent americans in the target those are being pounced upon. You bring up a really great point. If you had the opportunity to build out a privacy law and there were three simple things but not a 1200 page law that sort of maybe three or four simple things in that privacy law what would your recommendation be that we would look for . Guest my recommendation would be first and foremost if it is a counterterrorism measure is passed to state clearly what the goal of the counterterrorism measure is because way too many times the data is being collected in the name of counterterrorism and then it ends up being used for criminal aspects. And second, i think that giving americans the right to know should come first and foremost from Data Collection at all possible. If it is not something that is going to put the security of the nation at risk, then americans need to be aware of it. And specifically in the stores with the dummies. Thats something easy. Some of these Data Collections are easy to give the privacy notification to americans when they should also be given the right to opt in or to opt out if. Whai would think you would needy permission. In my opinion if you are an official source that i trust they arent going to tell you know. Thank you very much. No, when it comes to the research that you were doing, what is one of the cases that you came across that you thought this absolutely cannot be true. This cannot be happening. So you kept digging into them and digging in and out of this really is happening. This case really is happening. What is the craziest case that you uncovered when you were doing your research . Guest there were a lot of stories that fit into that. But right now it just shows the utmost deleted some of the government when it comes to, you know, doing things in the name of security and not feeling the need to let people know. There was a City Council Decision out in scottsdale arizona and what it was if they wanted to build a new building for their wall and enforcement, and what they did is they didnt have a public hearing they just voted to spend 1. 3 million to construct this building but the thing was they didnt want to tell the citizens where the building was going to be built and when i called and asked them whats going on and is this true because i saw other stories about it first justification was this as a Law Enforcement old and we dont want to give a headsup to wear were undercover officers arent out of so people can come into season but it was ridiculous because the Square Footage of the building, it was a small town that dictated commonsense and exactly where the building was going to be in on the flip side if you look in washington, d. C. Its not like they hide the intel buildings. People come and go all the time and you can see so i thought that was an egregious example of how a local government board could spend taxpayer dollars on a building site in security reasons and not even bother to tell the taxpayers where the building they are paying for is going to be construct it. Stanek were there any repercussions fo for that . The . They are basically okay doing it . Host you never know maybe you will see a few changes. I agree ive been to scottsdale and i wasnt quite sure where they would put this. That was quite an interesting case. One of the things you talk about coming you mentioned that we were on the dangerous course of this coalition course of slowly but surely weve justified for this reason or that reason this is why its okay to collect the data. But you say that it is correctable. Have you seen any situations where, so for example i know there was a Department Store here in the u. S. But when their customers found out they had a spooky mannequin that was looking at them they probably would have flipped out if they heard about the voice ones. They literally complained to the headquarters and removed some of you were doing a pilot and they removed so there was an example where you could change the course if you let your voice be heard and it is a simple, logical manner. So, in reversing this course we talked about the wish list for the privacy law and i think those are really good tenets. What has worked well to sort of reverse the course and continue for us to have the opportunity to grab our privacy back to . Guest there have been protests around the nation when local people learned that the Police Department is seeking drones to purchase and use for criminal reasons and so those are successful. I would say if people want to put a stop to some of this Data Collection that goes on or some of the militarization of the police that goes on, you need to keep it at your local Community Level because the politicians are not listening any longer. Your letters and phone calls are getting dismissed and pushed to the side at the local level, your local county governments and local City Councils controlled the Purse Strings on your Police Department. If you dont want the Police Department could have drones cant then you should go to the local board meetings and petition your local politicians to not pay for this type of technology. You can use that very simply just go to the board meetings. They are held every couple of weeks and at the local level your voice will be heard and i have seen stories where if that was done and the police gave up the notions of buying drones or some of his more militarized equipment. Host what advice would you have for the corporations . We talked in the book that opens up early on with this sort of revelation of the nsa addenda hold data source didnt put the mannequins in the stores and they didnt create microsoft. So they were basically partnering with the private sector and we know that the private sector they need to make money and pay the produced products. They want them to know us so that they can serve us better. It is of utmost importance to us. What would your advice be to company as far as the transparency to the consumers. Going back to the principle if you collected and we know that all technology you know the bad guys want it so we need to talk about how it might be used by other companies or other government organizations what about the cyber criminals. What would your advice be to the Companies Based on your research into the next step they need to take to regain the Customer Confidence and customer trust. Guest they would disclose honesty. He saw around christmas time targets and credit card debit card information was being swept up. I believe the corporation was alerted a couple weeks before theyd lethey let it out into tr public. You lose trust in the store and it seems to me the stores that would give the most disclosure to the data that they collect its being used, those would be the stores that people would intend to talk to because they feel comfortable. They feel as if that store or Tt Corporation is actually putting their privacy first before the Company Dollar bottom line. Host that is a tough one because especially if you are dealing with the companys online now. So theres one when youre in the store, but then theres the other when youre dealing with them online. And a lot of time to get the Privacy Policy. Its in a sixpoint font on your screen and you cant go any further so you click okay. The same thing with social media services. I know i should read the Privacy Policy but i dont is what a lot of people say to me. I understand a lot of times it is in the small font but it really is so important and your conversation around other Companies Need to be more transparent about this. Do you think its a great place to start and lets throw a way making it sound like a legal contract. Guest i dont read half of them myself. Its so long it sounds like and it just seems that it is to protect the legal interest of the company. Really though if you are a shopper that the only reason that you are going to dodge this Data Collection and it just kind of skate around all of this emerging technology is if you pay in cash. If you really are concerned about it, you can kind of keep it to a minimum youre data transactions and so forth. You can take your money out of the bank and cash what you need and then when you shop, pay in cash. Its things like that if you are really concerned you can take a few steps on your own with or without the company. Host youre right there are some steps you can take. There are others that you saw as effective. We talk about the whole thing like to dont let your cell phone on wifi otherwise they know youre there and theres other things you uncovered in the research were other simple steps that you can take. Guest america has turned to this phase where everything you do is on facebook or twitter. That ithat is into data that yoe putting out there. Nobody is asking you for it. You are voluntarily putting it out there so if you are concerned about these data breaches and so forth, then stop doing half of this social media stuff. There are a few steps americans can take. We dont just to go live in the woods like a hermit. But you have to be aware that its a part of the modern society. Youre not going to get around all of the Data Collection thats going on. Host as you are doing the research and drawing different conclusions, the biggest take away that you would want people to take away from your book, there were a couple of things that really resonate with me that were things that carried over from when i had written my book on privacy and it really struck me again that i got to the Founding Fathers to the constitution to our personal rights but what would be one or two things you would want somebody listening today or when they read your book with what you want them to take away from this conversation . Guest i want people to be aware when you read this book is drawn from the recent media events these are not conspiracy type made up events where im alleging that we are on a pleased state track and its just a crazy tinfoil hat argument. These are things you can flip on the evening news and look through the newspaper and see happening every day. Federal, state and local government encroaching on aspects of human activity and the biggest take away that i would like people to remember is that the nation was founded on the notion that our rights come from god and baath government and if you think about that, look around you and read my book and see how far we have strayed away from that and once that has gone where else can you go in the world and live as free as we are supposed to be living . Host that is a great take away. Great take book. I read it a couple of times through. You did a fabulous job. I recommend this for everybody both consumers and business people, elected officials. Anyone in the u. S. Thank you so much. Job well done. Guest thank you