Afterwards is up next. This week, representative Keith Ellison and his book my country, tis of thee my faith, my family, our future in it the 4th term congressman talks about his journey from detroit to mississippi, his conversion to islam and his rise to become a leader in the democratic party. This program is about an hour. Host congressman Keith Ellison, thanks for being here. Tell us about the district you represent and your role on capital hill. Host my district is the fifth congression and we have people who have been in america as long as there was an america. We have the largest indian population in the United States but we have new arrivals as well and we have the Northern Europe population from sweden and norway. And the traditional Africanamerican Community which has grown but has always been there as part of the great migration north. Greg wilkins is from minnesota for example. It is as a place where people start businesses every day. You can get any kind of food you want. And we have a strong tradition of tolerance. There has been intolerance, too. That goes without saying. But this is where humphrey was the mayor and mccarthy who was a congressman who stood against the war did his thing. And senator paul wilson whose basic sport came. And walter love mondale is from there as well. It is a remarkable place. Host on capital hill, you are a coleader of the progressive caucus . Host yes, and i am one of the five reps that hoyer relies on to count the vote. I am on the Financial Service and a proud member of the Democratic Caucus. Host you are a relatively new congressman. Why write this book now . Guest you know, after my colleague from new york decide he was going to use his focus to focus on muslim agenda. I went to king and i said i dont mind you talking about violent, radical muslims. We have to stand against radicals of any kind. But i ask you to not just focus on muslims. There are a lot of National Security threats in the homeland. He said no, i am going it do it the way i am going to do it, but i will let you testify. And i said okay. I went back to friends and advisors and said he invited me to testify and some said why do you want to dignify them and the other group said give them your opinion. I decided to go with the second point. And i talked about a 23yearold muslim who ran into the a building in new york as a First Responder and died while others were trying to protect their own lives. This young muslim gave the altimate sacrifice for americans. I finished talking about him and i got emotional during my testimony and that got attention. And after that, a friend name karen hunter, who is now a friend, called me and said i am a publisher and would you like to publish your book about your experiences as the first muslim in congress and i thought about it. And my initial response was i am not show sure i want to do that. But i thought tolerance is a key part of what we are as americans so i deeded to decided to do that host you grew up in detroit in a family of seven. What was your childhood like . Guest i was lucky to have two parents. Both of them have southern routes. My mother is from louisiana and is an awesome cook and cooked off the table and raised us with southern louisiana values. And my dad was born in detroit in black bottom. His father is from georgia, though. And so both my parent are products of the great migration. Africanamericans moving from the south to the urban north. My dad was a doctor. He believed in education. He came up on the harder side of life and taught us you have to fight for everything you get. Life doesnt give you any excuses. He would often say there is no mer mercy for the weak son. If you dont keep up with what you need to do, this world has harsh consequences. He would tell me that and probably would tell me that today. My mother was protech protective but had fire in her belly so they were different. But i am lucky to have both parents with me and they are in detroit. Host talk about your brothers. Four lawyers and a doctor. Guest yes, my brother is a primary care doctor. They are the first visit folks to the doctor see first. And then they go to specialist if they need to go. He is a great older brother. And my next older brother is brian. He has a law degree but primarily he is a baptist minist minister. But he does senior law and has that on the side. But mostly he is pastor in church of the new covineant. Then there is tony and he is a lawyer. And my baby brother eric is a lawyer in winstonsalem. My dream is one day he is going to join me in congress. But we will see about that. Host you mention your father is agnostic and your mother is a devote catholic. Talk about what role religion played. Guest my dad believes in a god and he would probably call himself a christian but he is not my dad is a guy who believes in the power of his own personal injury. He grew up skeptic about how he saw people manipulate religion. My mother knows to church on wednesday and sunday. She has rosery beads and prays for us and there is icons of mary around the house. They represent two polar opposites in that regard, too. My mother prays for my father, and my father offers pragmatic advice and in the middle of the two i came up in catholic schools. But to me, i saw it as rules. This isnt the fault of the people who tried to educate me. This is my own perception. And saw it as a series of donts. I had a spiritual yearning but i was not religiously involved as a teenager even though i went to an allboys catholic high school. And so you know, i was open. I was searching in my latter teens. And when got on campus at wane state i found a muslim community. It worked for me. The rest was history. Host there was an andote about your conversion to muslim and you stumbled upon it. Guest i read malcolmx as a child and in my mind islam and muslims were people that fought for justice. But i didnt know anything about it. But on campus, i was studying with the friend and he ended the study session and said i have to go. And i said were you going and he said im going to muslim prayer. And he invited me to go. I went. And i saw all of these shoes outside. And everybody sitting on the floor. And i noticed you had white, black, asian, arab and even latino folks. I liked that. And then the preacher was talking about inclusion and talking about how we are all from one seed of adam and eve. And how humanity starts from a single pair and we are all united that way. And i got intrigued. And i went back and back. And i ended up converting to islam. Host after you finished college, you leave detroit for minnesota. Guest yes. Host and in the book you said that you felt as though minnesota was a place where you could make a difference but you could not do in that detroit. Tell me why. Guest you know, you can make a difference in detroit. But i am talking about the perceptions of a 21yearold. I am not talking about i am 50. I am not looking at it from the perspective i have now. From where i was then, i need ad change of scenery. And you know, what i saw, was the 21yearold guy leaving wane State University in detroit is every other day an auto plant was shutting down. The political culture seemed like you would have to be there for quite a long, long time before you could get in the position to serve, although anybody can serve at any age, but you know the people who are the leaders in that political establishment were longtime serv servers. When i got to minnesota, the political culture was moreo opened. It was more dependented on what can you do. And that is how i perceived the difference. So i was active on campus at wane state and in detroit. And went to minnesota and found myself in a leadership position at the black Law Association and even as a young attorney, you know there are folks who wanted me on their boards and be part of what they were doing, it felt like more of an environment where they wanted people to participate. And whereas in detroit, you have a ton of problem. No shortage of them. It seemed like a political environment where the people who were there had all of the answers, if you know what i mean. I love detroit. It is my hometown. Minneapolis is my adoptive home town. I am grateful for drat detroit. Host you severed in the state legislator but you wrote in the book your faith wasnt an issue until your congressional run. Why do you think that is an issue . Guest it took me by surprise. When running for congress, my religion becomes an issue. I had my pray leader come to the state legislator to offer opening prayer as we do in congress from different deno denominations and faith. And i was fasting for rom dawn and everybody knew i was a muslim. But the reason it got such an interest is because in congress there is a specific role in terms of foreign policy, National Security, war and peace. And so many areas of the world where the United States was addressing an environment that was upset had to do with the majority of countries being muslim. When i went to congress, a few years before that, a plot to attack was launched in afghanistan. We were amidst the war in iraq when i opposed. Somebody said to me, you know, keith, it is like if a japanese person was to run from a Congress Just a few years after pearl harbor. You might imagine some people wa wouldnt see the person for the person but see you as a member of a group. And yni think that is why peopl were excited and afraid and even abusive at some point. Host you mention the million man march. Guest that is a great moment in my life. Host and one of the organizers of that event was lewis fair con. You are very critical of him and the nation of islam in the book. Tell us why . Guest there are a lot of people who come out of prison on drugs or whatever who are benefited by that nation. So we should never take credit away from that. But i was really looking for a greater mount of direction and involvement after the march. After the march, if you had two million men on the mall, you had many, many more millions of people, africanamericans and others ready for action right after that. And yet, while there were policy prescriptions and individuals who participated did care carry them on. It seemed like nothing from the group that started the march. I found it disappointing. But no body is perfect, right . I thought that was, though, a missed opportunity. That is my point. And also, too, you know, i tend to believe that we need to draw people into action. Right . And the march was action. But, you want to talk about action, you are talking about talking directly to the people and organizing around an agenda that will directly improve their lives. Not preach it in the room. Or talking about some other wordlytype stuff. You know . At the end of the day, i have a clear bias toward trying to address the things that are directly negatively empaimpacti people and organizing them around the opportunities that are in front of them. And i just found there was a call made with no followup. But look, you know, at the end of the day, the march inspired me to think about if he could get the level of organization needed what we could do for home placements in foster care, education, and unemployment, and disparities in health and education. It gave me a sense of possibility. But i do think execution after the march just wasnt there. Host so did that lack of execution lead to your political waiting . Guest no, at one point i was like what is going to happen. When it became clear nothing was going to happen, i said i dont know what anybody else is going to do, but what i am going do do is get more active in the community. I am going to run in this political process. I am going to try to be a factor in terms of having a greater level of equal justice for every american. Right . That is kind of what and i also said, in islam, we are taught in the koran that god created humanity from a single pair, male and female, and made us into different nations and tribes so we would know each other and not dispise each other. I dont have any use for a philosophy that says one group is above another group even if i am in the group that is favored. I dont subscribe to that kind of thinking. So that is another issue. But at the end of the day we need action and equality and that is why i am not on board with that kind of thing. Host in the book you write, and this is a direct quote, i dont want to have to defend anything because i am muslim. But you are often called upon to do that. Guest yes, you can look at the issue of my status as a muslim in one or two ways. You can try to ignore it and say it is my individual private business. Or you can say if my colleagues need information about what islam is or perspective on dealing with the world i am embrace that because this is about liberty and justice for all and i am going to use this moment in time that i am able to serve to improve on this idea of inclusion in america. So that is what i have done. I have decided that whether than flee from the situation i am going to go towards it. That is why i talked to peter king about the hearing and he offered to let me testify and i accepted it. That is why i have done to other members of congress and sort of discussed with them on private and public ways about, you know, the issue of inclusion and standing opposed to bigotry. This is why i have taken it on. It is partly my personality. You know i tend to step into the breach and offer whatever help i can whether than say i am going to look out after my individual private interest and let things handle themselves. Host you talked about the interaction with colleagues. Representative Michele Bachmann has accused you of having ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and that has been made public. But you say when you see each other you are cordial. How do you reconcile that . Guest she is charming. No one can deny that. We have a number of disagreem t disagreements from voting, to how the economy should be regulated, to the proper role of religion in the economy and we couldnt be more different. We are day and night on these issues. But you know, it isnt personal, you know . It is just that, you know, i dont know, that is what it is. I think a lot of people who watch and hear some of the fireworks that come out of congress and the political clashes and polarization might be under the impression there is personal animosity in congress, there may or may not be, i dont have any. These are substances differences not personality differences. So i dont have a problem shake the hand of a colleague i disagree with or talking to them. I believe you should talk to people who you have disagreements with and i am happy to do that. But the folks who watch congress from across the country should know it isnt a personality animosity. It is difference of values and opinions that separates us. Host in your book you dispute the fact that congress and government is dysfunctional. But you write it is stuck. Explain the difference. Guest democracy is messy. It is a system that says all voices have an opportunity to weigh in on the direction of the city or the county or state or country. And so because all voices have an opportunity to weigh in, sometimes those points of view clash and we get to an end pass passion and that is when we have stuck. We need to get the money out of politics. We need redistricting be depo t depoliticized so it reflects the city. People need to be able to get access to ballot boxes. But at the same time, i believe democracy is supposed to be raucous. You know . Somebody said that clash of ideas is a sound of freedom and sometimes this is going wrong. Right before the civil war, congress was dysfunctional, too. We are in another phase with extreme inequality and it is hard to move an agenda. 90 of the people want background checks for goun own r ownership but congress wouldnt move on it. Huge amount want to see minimum wage move but Congress Wont act on it. America is polarized and so is congress. I dont mean it isnt having problems of operation, which you know, suggests dysfunctionality. I am optimistic about moving forward and if we keep staying engaged and reach out to americans we will work out of the polarization. Host you travelled as member of congress extensively and wrote about that in the book. These congressional trips are used as factfinding missions. And you write about doing some of that. But you have been seen as an ambassador and folks in foreign lands can relate to you. How does that feel when you go over and you are looking for information but people are coming to you and asking you how can america help us and what can you personal do about it . Guest there is pressure. But it is an honor to make friends for your koupt country. A lot of people hear about the United States, see it on television, but how much do they know about it . In some cases they know a lot. In some cases they dont know a lot or misperceive how the country works. If you are from a country where one person makes all of the decisions, it may be strange to you to hear something coming from the u. S. Congress. You might think that represents everyone. But because of our democratic system it doesnt. So i find myself interpreting what the United States does. I was in egypt before the recent military takeover and i was talking to people and they were asking me why did you all support so and so and he said we will support who you put up. The United States is supporting whatever head of state you offer us. We cannot pick your head of state. And then i try to explain the United States isnt all powerful. You as a citizen of another country have agency in terms of the direction of your own country. I play that role and i think it is important for every member of congress to make and play and when i am called upon to make it, i play it. Host at the beginning you talked about the composition of your district. Do you often find yourself playing that same role with your con followers . Guest yes, i do. We have immigrants for all over the world. If you take someone who is from a place with democratic democra situations going bad, you have to explain how this is different and this capital is yours and we dont serve a king. I find myself often talking about the basics of how to make the democratic system work for you. And i think it is an us awesome role and i enjoy it. Host that leads to the book title my country, tis of thee my faith, my family, our future. You connect to two things many people in detroit and america can relate to. Talk to us about that. Guest i remember standing there in january of 2009 when obama was standing out there signing his oath of office to be the 44th president. And Aretha Franklin sang my country and i remember being swept up in the moment and feeling like wow, think about everything this county has gone through to arrive that this particular mall. I looked out on the mall and they used to sell slaves on the mall. And i looked at the capital and save labor built that capital. And i thought about what happened at the other end ov of the bar in 1963 and that was when king envoked those words. And at that time it wasnt even a possibility that someone like obama would be president. And i remember standing there in that cold moment thinking about a song i had heard many years before. There is an alternative version to this song that abolishnist wrote about it. They wrote a song with the same music but criticizing the slave system. And i looked and thought that is america. It is tension between Martin Lurther king and bill conner. It is people who want to expand democracy and then the people who only want to keep them in their group. And the country goes into the direction in which the most active people are pulling it. And we dare not let the people who operate on the bases of fear, scarcity or me and mine and us. I dare not stop pulling or those people will carry the day. We have to pull the country in the direction of sweet land of liberty for all. It is a tension. And you get what you are willing to give in terms of resources. I do believe america has great things to offer to the world. As a muslim, you cannot practice islam anywhere freer than america. Might be places as free. But in europe and switzerland they band minarets which are a key component of muslim houses of worship. They are not essential. And i dont believe in burkas but in france they banned them. And in a country like turkey, which the majority is muslim, the religious expression is banned from the public square. You might think about saudi arabia or iran, well you are okay if you are lined windup the people in power, but if you are not, then you are not all right. If you are in iran, you are not welcome to be sunni. If you are in saudi arabia, the shia com plain of not being able to the have full human rights. My point is in america you can be christian, any kind you want. Lutheran, methodist, catholic, whatever. You can see jewish. You can be reformed. Conservative. Islam. You can be whatever. Sunni. You dont have to practice any religion at all. This is a wonderful thing we have to practice as you please. But it isnt guaranteed. You have to protect it. You have to defend it. And somehow defending your right to practice your faith means defending the other persons right to practice theirs. Because once you say mine is okay and your isnt, what if the political table changes, then you will be on the other side. So congress cannot pass a law to control religious or the expression. I believe in that. So that is the title of the book and it caused me to do a lot of soul searching for reflection about our nation. Host do you see any parallels with your experience and the president s experience . Did you harkin back to your swearing in . Guest i sure did. The interesting thing about president obama was people accused him of being a muslim in a way to discredit him. He is a person with a muslim name, or a name that could be associated with a muslim, but he is a christian. I am a muslim and i have an enlish name. So in some ways, i do english sense a certain parallel with the president. And i admire how he managed the fire he has been under. He exercised a lot of grace under fire as well. Obama didnt elect himself, right . Americans elected him. And he is signaling a new dawn, i think. And we are not mostracial. In fact, we have severe disparities income, health and all of that, but we have defeated slavery and jim crowe. President obama allows us to take on the last frontier of defeating racism itself. Some people say that is too strong. But what if he could lead to universal brotherhood and sisterhood . Beloved community . I think it is possible. And if we can elect obama we can tear down these inequalties and disparities. Host the subtitle of the book you talk about the disparities you mentioned and you made that your mission on capital hill. Talk more about the issues that you addressed in the book that you are looking to tackle as a legislator. Guest i think the biggest problem is income inequality. It has two components. It is a stagnant wages, rising debt loads, limited economic fortunes for working people, and rewards for people at the tiptop of the economy. The stagnating for working people and people of color are disproportionately in that group. Africanamericans were hit harder by the foreclosure. But they were not the only ones hit. And they were effected more by Health Care Issues but i have all kind of people coming and saying they were affected by getting sick. I believe the president is right about income inequality being the defining issue of the time and i think we have to, as a nation, organize among people of ordinary means, regular folks all of the country, and reclaim the political power to require that the wealth of the country be shared. Conservatives say that you have to cut tax and not regulate rich people and big business because they will take the extra money you give them and use it to invest in plants and equipment to hire the rest of us. We know trickle down economics is a failed economic philosophy. It simply doesnt work. The proof of how bad it works is all around us. I think one of the main things i want to do is work for prosperity for working families. Reduce student debt. Make College Affordable enough to work your way through school again. That means Consumer Protection for people who pay high fees and stuff because they are not banked. And that means making sure that the minimum wage is increased and we have incentives to improve the livable wage. That means thanking and Rewarding Companies like punch pizza that is a minneapolis pizza restaurant that actually raised their minimum wage to 10. 10 without government intrusion. It is better if business says i want to keep my employees and build loyalty and not have to retrain all of the time and so therefore i will pay better. I want to make sure we have trade deals that help and strengthen the american working and middle class and not just offshore jobs. So we have seen since nafta, we have seen increasing trade deficits with the United States, with a few dips, but we are still running trade deficits. It is going up. We are not in a trade surplus situation. We had a trade surplus with mexico before nafta. We dont have a stagnating economy for working people by accident. We have it because of a set of decisions around taxation, trade, collective bargaining, education and training that put the economy on the footing it is on and i want to make this an economy that works for everybody, small business, middle class people, and workers. Host tackling many of the issues has elevated your national profile. You have become a champion of the left. Is this a platform to higher aspirations or office . Guest no. I am not saying i will never run for higher office. But this isnt a platform to extend. I dont have any aspiration higher than the one i hold. I dont see one higher than this. I dont know if there is a better job in the world than the one i hold. But i am ambitious for a policy agenda. Not for personal elevation. But for the country being a place where there is a reliable path to Economic Security for everyone. And for the few people who are too old, too sick, or too young to work, that there is a safety net that doesnt allow them to fall down so they are december destinned to fail. I am not proud of the title i hold, but i am proud of the fact that other members of the democrat Democratic Caucus demand the president issue an executive order raising the pay of federal contractors. They were making really, really low pay. And we got 50 members of the house, 15 members of the senate, demand that their pay get increased through executive order. Asked the president about it personally. And asked the staff about it. And other members of the caucus did, too. And other members went all of the country marching with striking lowwage workers at walmart and guess what . At the last state of the union the president announced the issue of this executive order. So to me that is what i am proud of. I am proud to be a part of stuff like that. And i am not really ambitious for titles. I am all about achievements that will put the average working person where they are from mexico or somalia or ten generations in america, they can look forward to a retirement not eating dog food when older, having decent water to drink, putting their kids through school and having a job that pays them fair. Host and one of the things that runs through the book is personal growth. And that is also a message as you talk about your father hammering home 1516yearold Keith Ellison northwest detroit. Did you ever see yourself at the point you are now did you ever dream about that . Guest no, you know, when i was that age, if somebody asked me what do you want to be when you grow up, i would have told them i dont know. Right . I knew one thing. And that was that i loved to read. I knew that i loved to express myself. I knew that i hated to see people treated unfairly or bullied or taken advantage of. That is what i knew. It wasnt until i got on campus i thought i want to be an eco h economist and i majored in economics. My dad said if you want to find out how the world works you have to know about money. So i found out economics was part but laws are important, too. So i went to law school at the university of minnesota. At 15, i had no idea. When i got to my 20s, i thought the last place i would be was in electorial policy. I had the two things pulled together and it was a model of what i wanted to do. Host you talked about your family and children especially and their experiences. And how different america is for them. Talk to us a bit about that. Host you know, it really is. When i was growing up, america was much more racially obsessed. You know . So for example, when i was a kid, if someone dated outside of their African Community that would be a thing. In my generatije kids kids je generation it isnt a thing. They are far more embracing and ready to accept people for who they are and who they offer themselves to be. My kids embody that certainly. And i think it is a good wonderful development. The good thing about my kids is they are proud about being an africanamerican and love to read about it, talk about and it hear about it. But at the same time may are interested in their own heritage and that make them interested in other peoples heritage. As opposed to not wanting to learn about others. Host would you say you adopted your father or mothers parenting style . Guest not my father because we didnt spank our kids and my dad believed in that. But i think i melded the two. My mother was, you know, a person who stuck up for her kids, made sure she was an active mom and a working mom, too. And my mom today is a social worker in detroit, michigan. Still works. She does juvenile offenders and loves the kids and probably treats them like she does us and sees them as her kids. She is as person who, you know, would make you feel good just being around her. So the two of them, was like the mixture of, you know, tough love and just affectionate love. They melded the two. I tried to go in the middle of the two. And try to be concerned about my kids. They are the best thing i have ever done. They are my treasure. Now they are getting older. The youngest is in high school and she is a senior going to college next year. The oldest one has his eyes on law school. He is out of college and plays football in college. And how he is looking at going to law school after having worked a few years in the Minnesota State legislator. I got one son, who probably looks the most like me only he has dread locks, he is an artist and paints murals and writes fiction. And then i have a son in the United States military, active du duty. He is stationed in fort stewart. They are my treasure band. They are the best. But none of them were raised like i was. They are all individuals. Anybody who has kids knows you dont shape your kids. They are who they are. And all you can do is try to guide them. But you know, they are born their own personalities and parenting or mentoring a child is something i would recommend to anybody. Host you talked about your mom being protective of you and your brother. And you have been protective against your children. Any incident where your republican opponent brought up situations with your family talk to us about your reaction to what was said and how you dealt with that in the aftermath . Guest it caught me by surprise because going after my family caused him to out himself about what under ordinary circumstances should have been embarrassing for himself. He talked about his exwife getting a protective order against him. Then he tried to say i let that information out. I didnt. But then he started talking about the circumstances of my divorce settlement. And i took offense to it because when we walked in that morning, my daughter had a day off from school so we were going to do the debate and then i was going to take her to breakfast and i had an emotional reaction. He was saying things i knew were false and fell below my own personal standards because over the air i called him a scum bag. I own that. I was wrong for doing that. I told her i was wrong. I said no matter what he says, it doesnt allow me do that. But i apologized to him and to the public for it. At the end of the day, it is just a lesson, you know . As much as you want to protect your family and kids, and fiercely stand up for them, you have to always remember that there is a certainly standard of decorum you have to maintain and when you fall below it you have to apologize. You must. And you dont get credit for rising above it. It is what you are supposed to do. And you know the voice in the back of my head when i was dealing with that was my dad. It was like my mom would understand why i would be upset. My dad would say that was an act of weakness when you let your emotions get the better of you. You stay in line even if the guy is out of line. And that was my dads voice telling me that. And i thought to myself you dont get anybody let you fall below your personal standards. So that was for that episode. But, you know, you have to move on from these things. You have to do your best. You have to remember your values. And you have to take responsibility for what you do that is wrong and you have to eventually forgive yourself, too, because if you dont you continue to beat up on yourself and you forget that your job is to represent the people of the fifth Congressional District which means you have got to be fullthroated, flatout and excited about it. I am not going to let someone pull punches because i am embarrassed about something i did. Host what is next isnt life is still happening. Guest what is next is, you know, got to get congress to raise the minimum wage. We are proud of the president issuing the executive order for federal contractors. But that is only going to help about 250,000 people. Which is a lot. Make a meaningful difference in their lives. But if we raise the minimum wage to 10. 10 that would help millions of people. That is the goal now. How are we going to do it with the republican majority . We have to convince them this isnt a democratic or republican issue and that if both sides do to together we will both get credit. I would hope big business go and tell them if we raise the minimum wage the folks we sell pizza to will have more money to buy pizza. You can raise the min im wage and still maintain profitability. We have to be careful not to enter into the the trade deals that offshore american jobs. Mickey sure the ladder of opportunity has the wrong sort it to pull yourself up. Host you already looking ahead for people who have not yet put up picked up your book what can they expect to find inside they have not found before . Guest what people can find is i hope it will inspire them with the albert e