Transcripts For CSPAN Yale Honors Supreme Court Justices 20141128

Good afternoon and welcome once again to alumni weekend. Each year, the Yale Law School Association Provides an award to an outstanding graduate. It is our way of recognizing extraordinary alumni that have made contributions to the legal profession. We are a tiny school but we have exercised an outsized influence on the development of american law and public life. Our award of merit has gone two president s like gerald ford and bill clinton. It has gone to senators like Jack Danforth, arlen specter, joseph lieberman, and paul tsongas. It has gone to cabinet officials like hillary clinton, edward leavy, robert rubin. Governors like scranton, mayors like john lindsay, and outstanding state judges. Today we continue that tradition by honoring three alumni who, without any question, have contributed immensely to the substance of american law. Today we honor three justices of the United States Supreme Court. The tale of each of these justices is a quintessentially american story, a story of upward mobility, hard work, of staggering achievement and great inborn talent. In different ways and in the name of different ideals, each of our honorees has already left an indelible mark on the shape of our jurisprudence. For as far back as anyone can remember, the school has been the site of passionate argument and disagreement. We have always nourished students in the pursuit of their own values and strive to help young men and women become as thoughtful and as effective as they can possibly be as they work out for themselves how best to comprehend this large and complex world. Every year, our alumni graduate with different worldviews and that is good. If we have done our job right, however, our graduates will share one thing. They will appreciate the value of reason, dialogue, open and productive conversation. They will listen to those whom they disagree with. Commitment to these values is a Precious Resource in todays world. Without respect and mutual without respect and mutual engagement, virtues that lie at the heart of the education that yale strives to provide, i fear for the future of our nation. The Supreme Court has always been at the heart of implacable controversy. I cannot begin to imagine the maelstrom of pressure that must engulfed every justice. In no institution are the values of the yale education more salient than the Supreme Court. It is my pleasure to welcome back these three justices who have each displayed the fortitude and virtuosity necessary to succeed in the highly pressurized chamber of the court. It is a real pleasure to welcome them back to a space that is safe for dialogue and discussion and oriented to bringing out the best that is in each of us in the hope that we will discover there, in ourselves, shared values and aspirations. Each of the justices we honor today graduated from yale in the 1970s. The biography of the justices in the program before you, so in the interest of time, and of allowing you to hear directly from them, i will not repeat those biographies. In fact, i will be very brief. I will say only that in coming to yale, each of these three enriched the community in ways that foreshadowed how they would enrich the entire country in their role as justices of the Supreme Court. I will introduce the justices in order of seniority. The first to graduate from yale in 1974 was Justice Clarence thomas. Justice thomas had been born into racial segregation and poverty. The house in which he spent his earliest years had no Running Water and only a single electric light. When he was seven, he was sent to live with his grandfather who he would later describe as the greatest man he had ever known. He stressed the importance of education so that Young Clarence could one day hold down a coat and tie job. Even though he now wears robes instead of coats and ties, i am guessing his grandfather would still be proud. His resources as a student at yale were so limited that when his son jamal was born he could not afford a place for his child to sleep. So dean jim thomas, who is here today, lent Justice Thomas his own family crib. Before classes began he secured a job with Legal Assistance. Frank cochran remembers thomas as a quick learner, very well organized, and the kind of person you were able to trust to do the work well. He brought the same philosophy to his studies. He obtained special permission to carry the maximum number of credits and he subjected himself to a rigorous curriculum of corporate law, bankruptcy, and commercial transactions. Made a habit of staying at the library until it closed at 1 00 in the morning. It was clear from the beginning just how smart he was. Thomass diligence was equaled by his sociability which led to enduring relationships with students and faculty. He soon became close with the pioneering tax scholar boris and the civil rights professor Thomas Emerson and with clinton johnstone, a Yale Institution who passed away this year. Around the end of his first spring, thomas lost his wallet and had it returned to him by a fellow classmate named john bolton. They became fast friends. Their discussion of politics made thomas hesitate before casting a ballot for mcgovern in 1972. His voting preferences may have changed but his ability to relate to others has not. There are many yield law students who go on to clerk of yale law students are going to clerk of the Supreme Court and to a person they praise Justice Thomas. They describe his kindness and his infectious laugh. They celebrate his deep personal humanity and his constant effort to reach out and to be helpful to them regardless of political beliefs. And that is no small thing for a justice in robes. There can be no doubt as to his dedication. No justice is as fearless as Justice Clarence thomas. Appointed to the court in 1991 at the age of 43, he has been called the courts intellectual conservative path breaker. He has passionately defended his convictions even when few agreed until gradually, and in no small part due to the force of his reasoning, his views have made their way into the legal mainstream. He has been compared to John Marshall harlan. Eugene volokh has suggested that he should be counted alongside holmes and marshall as a visionary. Court watching is always a tricky business and no one has made that clearer than our second justice, samuel alito, who, in his prizewinning note, analyze the behind the scenes negotiations in the early clause cases like maccallum. In that note, he catalogued, and i am quoting him, a long list of outwardly plausible but that badly mistaken interpretations that resulted from attempts to discern motivations of justices. Even as a student he understood that outsiders cannot begin to guess at the negotiations and the endless compromises involved in constructing an opinion for the court. If you examine the career of Justice Thomas, you will find it dedicated to Public Service. So also, the career of samuel alito from the United States Attorney Office to the office of Legal Counsel to the Third Circuit court of appeals to his current chambers. Public service was in his genes. His father, an italian immigrant who taught high school history. His mother was a school principal. Both were the first in their families to attend college. At yale, he was the perfect law student. He did everything right. Good friends with all. In short order, Justice Alito became the editor of the law journal. Peter, an alumnus from class of 1978, members seeing him in class, where he would always sit in the front row, staring intently at the professor. He never took a note and he never raised his hand but whenever there was a question that no one else could answer, the professor would inevitably call on samuel alito, who would always nail it. Appointed in 2006, he enjoys a reputation among his colleagues as someone with the utmost integrity, as a straight shooter who calls them as he sees them. He is a formidable jurist who combines a methodological approach and a mastery of craft that has led legal linguist bryan garner to label him an exemplar of legal style who writes with power and with clarity. It is clear that he is assuming a position of leadership, authoring major opinions that express conviction. At the risk of being merely another uninformed outsider, i would venture to guess that he is now conducting the very negotiations that he studied years ago as a yale student and i would further venture to guess that the force of his presence and his intellect is hard to resist. Our third and final honoree is Justice Sonia sotomayor. She graduated from yale in 1979. Her life story is one of determination and grit. Born in the east bronx from parents who immigrated from puerto rico during world war ii, Justice Sotomayor grew up in a family that refused to accept that economic disadvantage would determine what their children would become. Her mother was famous in the projects for saving up to buy sonia and her brother, now a doctor, a complete edition of encyclopedia britannica. The books paid off. After graduating summa cum laude, she headed straight to Yale Law School where she developed a reputation for having an analytical mind, a balanced perspective, and a fearless disposition. Martha, her classmate and now the dean at another law school up the road [laughter] described her as tough, clear, and very quick on her feet. Her torts exam was remarkable. [laughter] first termers tend to be careful. They do not want to take chances. But sonia was a rare person who from the very beginning took chances. As a student she chose to study matters that were close to her heart. Her yale law journal note, who her adviser believes is the best work written on these subjects, concerned potential puerto rican statehood. Stephen carter remembers how she was scrupulous by giving the strongest possible form two positions at which she disagreed. The journal found her note so important that it issued a press release to announce the publication. Justice sotomayor was appointed to the court in 2009. Like justices thomas and alito, her path had a life of dedication to Public Service. She is the only current Supreme Court justice who has experience as a District Court judge and this informs her perspective. A prominent scholar has written that her experience has given the court a perspective on criminal law that it has been lacking on how everyday people interact with it. What has been said about Justice Sotomayors criminal jurisprudence can be said about her jurisprudence generally. She has affirmed her commitment to realizing the rule of law in its fullest sense, driven by her belief that society is best served by, and i am quoting now, a shared acceptance of the laws judgment. The idea that the law must be legitimate to all americans is a noble and essential ideal. And anyone who has followed her work on the court knows that she has pursued it with eloquence and tenacity. So, my fellow alums, we have on the stage today three remarkable graduates of the school. Three graduates have answered the call to Public Service and achievement and who have already made an unmistakable mark on the substance of american law. Each of you has been an inspiration to the Young Students that we teach, each in your own way. And for giving them faith in the value of law, and the profession of law, and the possibilities of law, we thank you and confer upon you the Yale Law School award of merit, which looks like this. You will each get this sent to you. As you can see, it has a picture of lady justice in it which comes from the windows of the sterling law building. I know that wherever lady justice is currently living, she is very proud of each one of you. Congratulations. [applause] so now we turn to the highlight of the afternoon, which is a conversation between justices thomas, alito, and sotomayor, and our own kate. Her career includes a stint as an attorney and counselor for the for the council of economic advisers and also 25 years as athan professor at this law school, where she has written passionately about constitutional law and criminal procedure. When this school sought an interim dean, it unanimously turned to kate. I look forward to the conversation that she will lead with our three largerthanlife honorees. [applause] it is a real treat to have you back here. Clarence and sonia, we have decided to go informal. They are celebrating their reunions. Sam, you will be able to see judge garth later on. Brantford. D up to we hope your whole weekend goes wonderful and we are very excited. We have less than an hour and a half but sometime to get to know you better. My questions will proceed in three parts. First we want to learn about your life off the bench. And then about your careers before you joined the Supreme Court. And finally some questions about your work on the court. If there is a commonality, a common theme, it is the commonality between you in some respects. So, robert spoke of your backgrounds and we surely all took notes that none of you came from a family of lawyers. You each chose this path with some independence and grit. I will ask you about where you got that grit to study law. Sonia, let me begin with you. You are quoted as saying i was going to go to college and become an attorney and i knew that when i was 10. I want to ask you not so much what made you want to be an attorney but what did becoming a lawyer mean for you at that tender age of 10 . Oh. I thought you were going to ask has it meant to me, to say what i was thinking at 10 was not terribly sophisticated. [laughter] but i understood that despite the repetitive theme of the perry mason shows which introduced me to the law, that each case was different. There were different people doing different kinds of work interested in different parts of the world and the society they were in. And i had a sense that the law gave one that opportunity to learn new things constantly. But in high school i worked in an office. Back then it was one man and a bunch of women, ok . In the Business Office of a hospital. I used to relieve them during the summer when they went on vacation. And i knew from the repetitiveness of the work that i wanted something that would be constantly stimulating. I was not thinking, back then, in the global terms i subsequently developed. And so that has changed. What law is to me now and what made me choose it ultimately in terms of for sure the career i was going to do after college was that it was service. We will hear more about what it has become to you. Your princeton yearbook quotes you of having said that you dreamed of warming a seat on the Supreme Court. I dont know if you really said that, but is there some aspect of your early life or early professional experience that is particularly important in achieving that . I did say it as a joke. [laughter] i was thinking of saying she dreams of playing in the world series you would have referred that. You have been to baseball camp. Both ideas seemed equally plausible at that point. A couple of things got me interested in the law. My father did research for the new Jersey Legislature and used to discuss that with us and it seems very interesting. After reynolds versus sims was decided, he had the job of drawing to legislative and Congressional District with date discuss that as well. I can remember lying in bed and listening to the clank of the mechanical adding machine which shows you how Much Technology has changed. He was doing different maps to make districts with equal population so that was one thing. The other thing that got me interested in law was debating. One year, the National High School Debate topic had to do with a constitutional criminal procedure question and it just fascinated me. There was a little book put out that provided arguments on both sides of this question that was written by someone who at the time was labeled as a law clerk on the california Supreme Court. That was the first time i ever saw the word law clerk. The name of this individual was laurence tribe. Those were the two of the things that got me interested. Clarence, unlike your colleagues, you once said you never wanted to be on the court, that you preferred a private and anonymous life. What changed your mind and are you glad you changed it . I dont know if i ever changed my mind. [laughter] i think what changed is when the president calls, you always say yes, mr. President and that gets you into these forrest gump situations. I was just reflecting on my colleagues. First of all, it is an honor to be here with them. It is a bit overwhelming. Its a particular honor to be here with my wife, virginia, who is totally my best friend in the world. This is far more special than what at the time i thought my graduation was. I did not think about being a lawyer. I thought about seeing a priest. That was my dream, when you are altar boy, the next step is to determine whether you have a vocation and go on to the minor seminary and that was the major change in my life in 1964. And you went to seminary for a year. I went to seminary for four years, including my first year of college. Then the late 1960s happened. A lot of things happened, summer of 1968, including loss of vocation and loss of faith and then you start thinking what do i do . That is when the idea, i reflected back on people like Atticus Finch he was the only lawyer i knew anything about. Mockingbird. I knew about max from native son, so these were the things that played out in your mind in the 1960s. Those of us who were there in the 1960s cannot say we were thinking straight about a whole a lot of things. [laughter] even if we were not using illegal substances. [applause] it was a different time and what i wound up with was working in the community that was a common theme for all of us, so i wound up at new haven Legal Assistance but the effort was to come back to savannah. Yale was actually quite good because naively, i think you said, sonia, that your thinking 10 was unsophisticated my thinking at 20 was unsophisticated. Yale took me up in my application, i said i was quite taken by the law and was excited to learn about it. That has continued. Someone who read that actually believed me and it must have sounded particularly naive but it is true and is still true today. I am 66, im not 20 anymore. I feel as strongly about it after all the experiences and more idealistic than i did back then. Let me continue with this line of questioning. The same question to each of you what personality trait do you think has been the greatest impediment to your success or if you prefer, you can tell us about a trait you found helpful. And you can decline to answer. Lets start with you, clarence. I have finally figured out, i am pretty much an introvert. That turned out to be one of the traits that was enormously helpful. I thank my law clerks and susan kane for pointing out in her book the traits that you have. That has been very helpful to me because i have been able to sort things out that were very, very difficult. The other thing for me over the years, whether i was teaching my self algebra or typing, it was persistence. I am very comfortable with doing things over and over until i learn them. Even here, i found law school to be enormously elusive and going over reading the tax revenues and regulations over and over until it made sense, i think it only made sense when i threw the volumes out. [laughter] i think persistence and respect for others opinions has been very helpful to me. As far as something that gets in the way, i cant think of that many things. I try to work with others in a way that is cost free for them to disagree with me. There is no penalty, that i can respectfully and clearly disagree, but not in a way where you think im going to make this guy angry or we are going to have some unpleasantness. It works fine for me on the court. Im sure my colleagues can think of those things as stubbornness or bullheadedness, but to me, that would be an incorrect assessment. [laughter] i could ask some of your colleagues but i will not do that right now. I think to be successful generally, he use the word persistent and i use the word stubborn. You just dont want to give up, so you dont. I think you have to respect people and like them. But in direct answer to your question, i have a trait that has been enormously helpful and enormously harmful at the same time. I have an incredible power of concentration. When im involved with something, whether it is reading in my office, people would stand outside my door to talk because i would never hear them. Once i was working, i shut everything out. That can be very helpful for absorbing information when you are not distracted, harmful is that happens when i am on the bench and i am involved in an argument and i become oblivious to the world around me and i am just trained in on the person i am engaged with, and i am seeking an answer. To some, it seems im being combative when i am really just searching for an answer. That has held me in bad stead, and i think it sometimes still does and i try and try harder as each year passes to correct some of that, but i hope i have to soothe myself that we can all see the good in ourselves and and admit some of the bad, too. Thank you. Sam. Impediments, more than i can think of are mentioned. One has been mentioned already. It probably would have been better if i said a bit more. I said two things to the judge i clerked with during the year ice i spent with him hello, judge come on the first day, and goodbye, judge on the day i , left. [laughter] i dont think thats exactly accurate. Traits that have served me well you were very Close Friends with him. He is a great mentor and in his 90s, he has been doing active work for the Third Circuit until this past summer, and he is still mentally very sharp and he lives near here, so benefit of myed trip up here this weekend. Traits that have served me well . I think one of if not my single Favorite Movie is being there. If you remember that movie, being in the right place at the right time, that is the best. [laughter] i tell my students that about clerkships. Just being there at the right time. Let me get on a bit of a lighter note. Beyond sharing a passion for the law, each of you is also a passionate sports fan. Sam and sonia, you are baseball fans. The man from Central New Jersey being a phillies fan and sonia from the bronx being a yankees fan. But clarence, have you ever gone to a baseball game . You are, with your wife jenny, a devoted fan of the nebraska huskers. Ginny is from nebraska. Is that why you are a huskers fan . Yes. [laughter] i really like my wife a lot. [laughter] [applause] i am unabashed about it. I really liked her mother and her mother really liked me, so my advice to people who get married is look out for the motherinlaw. They were big nebraska fans and i like the fact that the players graduate. I think its wrong for these kids who go to school and use of of their eligibility and health and they dont graduate will. We are dispatching with rutgers, so hopefully that is over by now. Beyond sports, what do you do with your leisure time if you have any . In this round, im going to give the answer and you are going to tell me whom im referring to in the style of the old whats my line tv show. One of you inspired a coffee shop to name its blend bold justice. D want to ask the audience to do want to ask the audience to participate . Obviously, its me. [laughter] this comes from my day on the Third Circuit. There was an old coffee shop that long, long predates starbucks this goes back to the 19th century. One year, i had clerks who liked coffee but they did not want to make that, but this coffee shop had a promotion. You could sign up for a year and fill up a big thermos so you have coffee for the year. As a promotion, they say if during the course of the year, you sampled every blend of coffee that they made, you could create your own blend at the end of the year and name it. This involved a lot of sacrifice because there were blends like blueberry coffee and horrible things. They suffered through all of that and then created this blend, which is designed for about 3 00 in the afternoon if you are working and starting to fall asleep, if you have this, it will jolt you awake. That is the story behind it. The coffee expert among the three or four who did that has and that as a law professor and of course, where would he go . To seattle. [laughter] teachers at university of washington law school. It sounds like you are serious about your coffee. Yes. What kind do you drink . Strong. Are you serious about coffee . Are you serious about coffee . Very much so, but i had to give it up. I still get pounds of coffee from puerto rico because they know i was an avid coffee drinker, so everybody sends a me coffee. I have an office full of it, it, friends have it, just get on my list. Folgers and Dunkin Donuts is fine. You can see im eclectic. I am not a connoisseur. Thats pretty obvious, right . One of you enjoys traveling Cross Country with your spouse in a 40foot rv. Who is that . That is technically incorrect. [laughter] it is a motorcoach. Is it bigger than an rv . It could be, but it is a better vehicle that rv. [laughter] so you are a connoisseur about something. And rv is built on a light truck chassis. A motorcoach is a tour bus. He is a connoisseur about some things. It is old, but it is really nice. I do travel on it and this is a wonderful country. We have been doing it for 15 years and we have been through connecticut, we have seen western connecticut, massachusetts, other parts of new england, upstate new york, the adirondacks, the west, the south it is an amazingly beautiful country, so we have had an opportunity to drive around. To people ever come up to you and say you look like Clarence Thomas . After bush v. Gore you probably dont recall that case. One thing about these old motor coaches is that you spend a lot of time repairing them. She said i get it, this always goes on you are always taking it to be repaired. It was scheduled the week we had bush v. Gore to be in florida. Of course, i had to drive it there. I rescheduled and the week after, things were a little dicey driving down in florida and i stopped in brunswick , georgia at the flying j truck stop. Not many people know these places exist, but it is ready pretty interesting. Im refueling, which is an interesting experience, with the 18 wheelers and one of the truckers walks by and says to me that anybody ever tell you you look like Clarence Thomas . And i said yes. And he says i bet it happens all the time, doesnt it . [laughter] then he went on about his business. One of you is a passionate salsa dancer and i guess we know who that is. Its me again. Does any other justice dance salsa . I doubt it. That last part, i doubt very much. I asked my mom what i did as a child because we had parties in my home for most of my early childhood. I know most of my cousins could dance, but i couldnt. She said every time lessons started, you would run off and do Something Else. I later found out i am pitch deaf. I cant keep a beat to save my life. So i live like a potted plant. Theres an expression in spanish. I live like a potted plant most of my adulthood and as i was turning 50, i had got on i had gone on to the court of appeals and was invited to wasanic events where salsa being played. And i would sit there as all of these guys were asking me to get up and dance and i was single. I finally decided this is something i want to change. So i took lessons and i found out i totally cannot keep a beat to save my life will stop it to seek my life. It doesnt matter what i do. But i have a facility some of my colleagues would find very strange. I can follow. [laughter] this will fall a little flat in this audience except among the hispanics here. If my partner can keep the beat and i can see it, i can follow it. So among hispanic men, the best dancers in terms of keeping a beat are dominicans. The worst are cubans because they have big steps. That is profiling. But it proves itself write a lot right a lot. Cubans have these very tight little steps. Puerto ricans, i can dance with. Im only partially jesting. Before i say yes to anyone who asks me to dance, have too watch them first to make sure i can follow. So if you cant lead, you follow. You are going to be in trouble with the cubans. My husband always says hes i know, i know. Excuse me. My husband always says hes the only puerto rican who doesnt know how to dance. , it is a revelation to know that she likes to follow. I think we will start dancing in the conference room. [laughter] now you know. Getting to know you better am going to ask a question that sounds banal, but it sounds better when brian lamb asks it on cspan. Tell me about a book you have read recently and while is good. Why it is good. I have two books that are inspirational and i keep the month the table by my bed and tried to read them a little bit every night. My grandfathers son and my beloved world. [laughter] quick thinking. He is keeping it with his two constitutions in his pocket. It is a hard question to answer. I try to read things other than the law over the summer, but when the summer comes to an end, i vow that you can just read you cannot just read briefs because so much of our lives is reading an incredible amount of legal material. This summer i also love lists, so i found a list of things you can read in a day. So, that is my valve. I have started already. That is my vow for the coming term. Some things i had read many years ago like a story from dubliners when i read it in high school. I reread it recently and thought, you did not really understand this when you are 17 years old. Some very moving things like that. Sums good. I do a combination of legal books and nonlegal books. The summer, i read a book on my colleague and i am not going to rank it. He did not write it, so it is about him. I also read Justin Stevens book on the amendments he would propose if he had the power. In terms of fun things, because you want to escape from it. I read because my College Roommate told me which classics to read and she still sends me books. It was the immortal life of henrietta lack. I loved that book. Not only did it teach me science in an understandable way, but it had a very moving and impactful description of how science not only changes the world, but the individuals affected by it. To me, it was beautifully done and incredibly interesting. Its a little bit of law because it talks about these cases but it is really about him and her as people, and i am enjoying it. You pick up the things friends recommend. There are things i just have a personal interest in, so it varies. Great. Clarence, a recent book and why i must admit i think reading is a gift. It is a gift i prayed for when i was a kid, just very thankful for it. I read quite a bit. I agree to do things, to teach courses and things im interested in. I just recently agreed to teach a literature class for the last two years on law and literature. This year, we were doing native son. Native son is to me it was certainly critical in my own development and there is so much in there. I reread that many times. I most recently reread it a few weeks ago. Last year, we did to kill a mockingbird, which i have done countless times. Each time you read it, you see something different. Where was it you were teaching . George washington university. Seminar on law and literature. Im teaching another course that stories behind constitutional law precedent. Thats a full semester. I taught another one on swift v. Tyson, which is another set of readings. So i really need a fulltime job. [laughter] what it does is it forces me to things that are important to me and that are helpful in thinking about things reading Richard Wright at this point in my life is quite different when you first read it . I was 16 i was the only black kid in the seminary. You react quite differently. I read it again during my college years. During my law school years. I have read it many times, but at each stage, you see things differently. Judge alito gave my answer i read your books and memoirs, and reread them preparing for today. Terrific. Sam, youve got to get moving on your memoir. I want to move on to law school and your preSupreme Court careers. When i first asked about your time at Yale Law School, let us in on some formative episodes, good or bad. Knows sonja and clarence have written something about this sonya and clarence have written something about this. Tell us something in your book or Something Else entirely. And sam, you can tell us if its true if you sat in front of the class and never took notes. It sounds good, so im not going to deny it. Interesting things that happened i had some wonderful classes and great professors. I was walked over to the law school this morning by a firstyear student maybe they thought i couldnt find my way here, but i had a chance to talk to him on my way over and i asked what courses he was taking and he said im taking torts and calabresi is teaching. So many things have changed here. But its good to have some things that do stay the same. He was a wonderful teacher and im glad to hear hes doing well after some recent surgery. I had some other very good courses. I was reminded of moot court and i remember participating here and in particular, i marveled that i made it to the final rounds. Because of an incident i mentioned to the students i spoke to, one of the judges is hammering me with one particular question. I answered as best i could i dont know how many times this went on and then i said i would like to move on to my other argument and he said you have an you have not answered the question to my satisfaction yet and my response was i have answered it to my satisfaction. [laughter] this is an incredibly openminded person who let me move on to the next round after that. I never knew that about you. Alexei what about you, clarence . I think of law school as a blur. There were some good people who were very good to me. I consumed a lot of his time. There were professors they were all very good to me and spent time with me. There were professors here they were all very good to me and spent time with me. Boris, what a gentleman. Joe bishop spent time with me when i took a couple of his courses. I just found it stimulating. I also love i had a group of friends back then, you were required to eat at least one meal at the law school, so there was a group of us who met in the mornings. Mostly kids who lived in the dorm. We needed breakfast and i we would just meet at breakfast, and i thought that was one of the delightful times. I would never miss that. I think it was it 8 00 or something. I also had some study groups that were just delightful. The rule was if you did not contribute, you were booted out. I was not the enforcer. That was tax, corporate finance, some of those courses. I found those interesting, but i must admit i did not get as much out of the law school as i should have and thats simply because of my attitude which i encouraged students this morning not to replicate. It was a very difficult time and there was a lot of negativity on my part. Sonya . Clarence . I really did not know how to take full advantage of law school. Good point. Given our background and the fact we did not have anybody in law or related to law, i did the things that sounded like you had to do through the law journal. Moot court seemed like too much , so i didg writing barristers union. But until jose talked to me about clerking in my third year of law school, i had not heard about it. I hadnt thought about it. I do think there are kids who come today to yale who dont come with enough knowledge of the system to know how to take full advantage. I understand now there is talk with students in our position , but i think some of it is good point. A i found out about clerkships about two years after i was gone. [laughter] im not going to repeat what is in my book. I hope those of you who have not read it, will. [laughter] but i will say i have said this to the students in high school, i was near the top of my class and valedictorian. In college, you may have heard, i graduated with honors. I got to yale and learned a deep sense of humility. Oh, yeah. Sitting next to my classmates, listening to them in class taught me how much smarter so many other people were and how smart has different faces. Anything resonating with you, clarence . I tend to agree. For me, by the time i left, theres a sense of confidence that i had an assessment of where i needed to be and then it was a question of what i make the commitment to get there . Soanya is absolutely right. It was a lot we know and there are some things i am involved in now where we try to bridge the gap for talented kids from difficult or challenging backgrounds. But i do think when i left yale, i had a sense of how right or how much others knew and how much i needed to learn to be where they were. And that would take years. I go back to the point about persistence was i going to be persistent enough and have the will to continue preparing to get there . Let me ask about getting there. This is an other commonality. There. This is an other commonality. School,u left yale law you started your career as government attorney. And that is in washington dc. You served as an assistant attorney general in missouri doing tax work under john danforth. Sam, your first job after the serve as ans was to assistant u. S. Attorney in new jersey. Sonia, you served under our great graduate bob morgenthaler. Postnt to know how these law School Experiences shaped you . I dont want to say shaped you as a justice, because then you might not want to answer it. Which of your jobs, and there are a lot of them, the most important preparation for the Supreme Court . Missouriin the Attorney Generals Office and then two years inhouse at theanto he worked on hill as an aide to senator danforth, served at the department of education, and served as chair as the eeoc before your year and a half on the d. C. Circuit. Which of these was the most important preparation . First of all, i was in missouri and probably wound up with these jobs. I dont want anyone to think i had a conscious plan. I would have to say each job was even theb and difficulties were opportunities to learn and to grow and that is the way i looked at them. Not all of them were the most gratifying or fulfilling jobs, but i have not had a bad job. It was jack and forth, and he is a good man. Us morehe could promise work for less money than anybody in the country. And he delivered on that. It was a wonderful learning opportunity. The best job i had for me personally among the jobs i have had to prepare me for what i do, i would have to say eeoc. Tell us about that. There were a lot of challenges. Im not going to go back and relive that, but there were challenges and criticisms and i was constantly in trouble. You learn how to remain calm and make hard decisions under difficult circumstances. Learn to double check and recheck and make sure you are right. Also, you learn how not to become unpleasant because there is unpleasantness around you to accept certain things. You cant always retaliate. I would have to say eeoc and i learned people who work closely with you appreciate you being loyal and good to them as Jack Danforth was to me from 1974 on. Say eeoc taught me that discipline and calm this in difficult circumstances. Sam, you spent four years as an assistant attorney where i gather a lot of your cases were appeals for the Third Circuit and nu argued 12 cases before the Supreme Court. After that, you spent two years as deputy at oh lc and then you were appointed the president to be the u. S. Attorney for the district of new jersey. These you went from being a legal eagle most of your life to now running an office. What was that like . It was the biggest change in my career. A lot different from what i had gone before and radically different from what came after. Being a circuit judge, whereularly on my court they are spread out, its one of the most isolated legal jobs that exist. Other courts may operate to firmly, and we got along very well, but i could go literally for weeks without ever seeing another human being at work except for the people in my own office. Wasu. S. Attorney job completely different. Was read and i did write and Exchange Emails with my colleagues and go to philadelphia for oral arguments. Ae u. S. Attorneys office was big office by the standards of the day and there was always something happening. Every day when i came in, i might have things i planned to do but there would be a dozen things i had not land. Good wings, not so good things the assistant would come in and we would have to deal with that problem. The heads of different investigative agencies came in. It fascinating to stop was fascinating. It did not involve a lot of reading or deep analysis, but its a tactical job trying to make sure everyone in the office was moving in the right direction and handling their cases and investigations properly. After serving under bob morgenthaler, you were in private practice for nine years. Fiveid not serve for years, making you the only justice with that experience. How have these different roles and positions informed your respect of on the law . I had a thought even from law school that you knew the profession was moving toward specialization and at some point, i would have to pick an area. Timein law school, i spent learning about different yields that i thought made a more wellrounded lawyer. Even know i was specializing in international law, hence my note, i took corporations, i evidence,act, i took i took the states and trust. All of the subjects that i thought made a wellrounded attorney. Office,ot to the das there was some frustration there. Differenturt is very from state prosecution. Scarce. S are the people involved are wellmeaning but also sometimes not well trained. Witnesses are often scared and we dont have the federal resources of witness protection in the same way. You have two could people to bring cases. And a half years, i decided i had rounded out the criminal right of my lawyering and wanted to learn something about the civil side. So i went to a commercial law firm, but i did everything as a litigator. Sub specialty and intellectual property. But i did it states there, i handled real estate matters, i youled banking matters name it, i did a little bit of everything and some big things as well. That repaired me for the District Court. Watching judges who have become judges recently, a lot of them come from specialties and i think they have the basics of law and i had developed a more wide basis of legal knowledge starting with my District Court job. Even with that, there was a ton to learn. I have learned a lot. The District Court let me tell you a story. Last year, i was having lunch with the chief and Justice Kagan it was just the three of us. We started talking about how workedr senior justices in the various federal circuits. It, it thinking about said when or if i retire, im going to go back to the District Court. When asked why, i said why would i want to go on doing what im doing for however many years it has been . I want to go back to my first love and District Court is a different and exciting place. For me, it was the formative experience preparing me for the court. Likell look at cases a lot District Courts do. Toook at the facts and try apply the facts to law and my colleagues look at the law and that is all they look at. Will never disavow because it has value. Time was onreatest the District Court in terms of preparing me for the Supreme Court will stop how about you . The you those things think you took the most from sitting as a justice . Arguing is much more closely related to what i am doing, so that had a greater effect, but i treasure the experience of being u. S. Attorney. We sort of moved on to your service on the Supreme Court and was an initial question what surprised you when you got to the court mark did anything surprise you mark monday nor important . Matters, we are the way we operated internally than i was used to on the court of appeals. Cases comeof our from the federal courts of appeals. We are more formal in the way we operate. Anybody present , so the time expired and if any judge had more questions come more time would be given or if the lawyers hadnt covered everything, more time would be given. You cant really do that when you have nine on the bench and you have the kind of schedule we have. Our internal operations are very oldfashioned. We dont communicate with each other at all. Withf my Communications Colleagues were by email. Tunes by our the seats on the bench. You said being on the regional courts of appeals, at state,ne thats got many now you are all in the same building i thought you were our communications are by telephone or face to face the communication about cases almost always are written except when we are in conference and we are talking there. Some, and theres nothing wrong with it, communications that are oral but if you have comments about the standardnion, procedure is to write a letter and circulate it to everybody on the court. We are together a lot more. For me, its a much less isolated job. We are in the same city, in the same building and we are together for many more days. Days we have arguments, we have lunch together very frequently, so we see each other a lot more than i did on my old court. Clarence . I cant say i was surprised. I had no idea what i had gotten myself into. Formal. Ery i like her malady. I dont like a lot of the informal stuff. White, heoss, byron would send around a memo dear clarence, i dont agree with the thing you said, cheers, byron. [laughter] cheers,ter was brian. Its a little disconcerting because we are in the same building and we dont see each other that much except when we are sitting or have conference. I usually come in, go to my chambers and work and go back to the basement, get in my car and go home. Firstemail but when i got to the court, there was not internal email, so i dont think we have gotten there yet. I was in charge in those days of the automation, so we have all of that now. We can do a lot of things on the computer on a document together. I do it with my law clerks that people prefer hardcopies and things like that. I work almost exclusively paperless. I think at some point, we will do it in the court. Surprises me is how warm everybody was when i got there. I was pleasantly surprised by that, by how engaged everyone was. I walked from an argument with john stevens is a delightful and brilliant man and you could Start Talking about cases you have earlier in the week or you are working on an opinion and he is fully engaged, or justice oconnor, same thing. ,t was a wonderful environment and environment where people were not raising their voices but thinking they were of the view that the work was more important than they were and our job was to turn out the best product we could. Thats the court i came to and thats the way i think the court is now. Very pleasantly surprised at how much work it took. I came on the court and i was 40 years younger than justice locklin at the time. It in his 80s, so i said it can be all that hard. He was cruising along and i had fallen along the way. The boss used to tell me, clarence you have to get a system and learn how to do this job systematically. I have to say the number one warm for me was just how and respectful and dignified the people were with whom i worked, whether they agreed or didnt. That was my biggest surprise. I was surprised by all of this as well. Me, the tradition had one positive thing which it taught me that the court as an much moren was important than i was as an individual justice. That is a very important lesson for justices to learn and to live by. Sometimes the tradition is little silly. Lunch, why have i forgotten our previous is our previous justices chair. That is not by seniority, but that chair has been sat on by all the judges. Moves, you feel a lot of eyebrows raise. Why are you sitting there . That stoplen prey to what are you doing here . Overwhelming at times, the tradition. I think there are two reasons the justices dont use technology so much. One is tradition and the other is some of them dont know how. Then there is that. The almost 90yearold justice when i came to the court, justice even Justice Stevens, did use email. You could send him something and he would respond, but it was very short, so i knew he wasnt a great typist, but colleagues who you might be otherwise surprised i think the most computers that he justice issue,. Larence in his defense, Justice Stevens was my ally in automating the agency. He was a very productive man. Fun of him to make when he went to florida but we dreaded when he went to florida because he would start churning all of this stuff out and he was always on his computer. 80 as productive he was a wonderful ally and in fact, when there was some consternation early on about automation, he was one of the people i could count on to always help me convince my colleagues to move in that direction. I will say something. A different view of the isolation you talk about. I have chose to be on the second floor. I am the only justice up there. I recognize it is a problem because im separated from my colleagues. Those steps down, sometimes they seem a bigger barrier than they should. Decide, as iust have done before in other courts and my colleagues were nearby, to just walk by and plop myself down to say hello. We have colleagues who do that. Steve breyer . And a couple of others. Some colleagues who like doing it. I think it is personality. I really do think its what were most comfortable with as individuals. With respect to the question that you asked, ive often said, i fell prey to what i think the public does in reading art opinions. You read our opinions. You agree with one side or the other, anything to yourself, this was perfectly clear. This was not that hard to figure out. Is then what you do not see how difficult almost every case before us is. It does not come to us unless there is a circuit split. If theres split it is because, this point, but the reality is i think most of our court of appeals judges are reasonable people. And they are giving their best effort at giving an answer. Struggling a lot more than i anticipated. Opinion, you write the all of you and your colleagues, you read the majority opinions. You read the dissenting opinion, and each one seems quite confident they got it right. But you are saying you picked great lawyers. Advocate. Of us was an everyone of us can pitch the b est argument on either side that you could raise. Our once weve come to conclusion, the purpose of opinion is to persuade. And you are going to do an opinion that you hope persuades. Even though you may be experiencing some initial doubt about the answer. I think that, for me, that part of it is very much a surprise. Very interesting. Sam, have anything to add to this . What makes a case hard . Said about the difficulty of the cases is correct. Most of them are cases where there is a conflict by definition those are cases with respect to which there are two reasonable positions that you can take. That the mind the fact last opinion of mine from the , which wasit in opinion for the on bank court, was reversed by the Supreme Court 90. [laughter] im still absolutely sure i was correct. The issue was whether a woman was in eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance benefits because she could do the last job that she previously had. Job was as anast elevator operator. So, i said rather simpleminded ly that the ability to do your last job should not count if that job does not exist anywhere in the real world. But the Supreme Court in its great with some said it does not matter whether the job exists. I do keep that in mind. [laughter] hes still a good lawyer. Still bothers you, huh . No, clarence. I have gotten over it. Remember it very well. Speaking of your colleagues, there is something ironic. Yale law school is supreme when it comes to populate law school faculties. Ofother fact is that four f your colleagues were fulltime law professors. Ginsburg, kagan, and scalia. This is the most Academic Court of all time. Yet, none of the former professors are yalies. None of you. I am getting to a question here. A are there too many former oppressors . Are there too many former Appeals Court judges . Not enough for Something Else. And anyone can take this on. As academics is concerned, we are at a dangerous tipping point. They are almost in the majority. Who knows what they will do to us when they have control. Of appealscourt judges perfect preparation. [laughter] no question about it. Its helpful. I dont know whether that kind of being a court former court of appeal judge, being an academic having held an elected position, i do not know whether that kind of diversity of experiences is critically important. Diversity of experience is very valuable. Many different types of diversity. Mentioned, as sonia very few people today have the kind of generalist background that she acquired. A lot of people spent a lot of their career specializing in some areas. And we all have areas where we have to write opinions that are going to be binding on the country in areas where we have no background. Bitexample, i did not one of patent work. My first involvement in patent law is in voting on patent cases. It is unavoidable. That will be true for all of us. It is valuable for us to have that kind of diversity as far as fields of specialization and knowledge. Anybody else care to comment on the observation the courts make up . Justice thomas, you have served on different courts. It has changed. I served about two weeks on the court of appeals. Different Supreme Court. New people coming in. , ii have Great Respect for think the work that our judges do. I think they allow us the earlier question about confidence in the opinions. I do not think we can write, woe is me. Im having a hard time with this. I am crossing the rubicon and all that sort of stuff. You have to write the opinion. And you write it as best and is clearly as you can. But sometimes i think we write it in a way that belies the insecurities we might have or the uncertainties in the argument. I think we have to be open in the next cases to reexamine that. That is something i try to do in chambers go back and make sure, rethink old opinions. But as far as the makeup of the court, i do not feel that im in a position to say who is better qualified. Our colleagues who are academics, from the academic world. Who would be replace . I like them all. I think they are all fabulous. You do not have to agree with them. You do not have to agree with Justice Ginsburg to know she does fabulous work. When you are in a disagreement with her, she is going to force you to do better work. The court thelike way it is. I do think we should be concerned that all of us are from two law schools. Andsure that harvard yale likes that. We should be concerned about that to some extent because this is a big country. I also think we might want to think about the fact that we hav e such a strong northeastern orientation when the country, there is a lot of country between here and the west coast. I mean, those are my peaves. Wouldnt, i could not say that somebody on the court who is been a colleague of mine should not have them there or should not be there. They are wonderful people. Have surprising, a dissenting view. Individualny one does not represent. Anything. You do not represent the justice who is an elected official. You do not represent a justice who has come from a single practice. And it is not as if youre going to be an advocate for an interest group. So justices do not play at the kids in that sense of the word. Youreo think that, as evaluating the human condition, as you are talking about how you expect the reasonable person to respond, how you talk about what Police Officer would would not do and all of these questions that we look at constantly, it is helpful to have people with Life Experiences that are very. It enriches the conversation. Im worried we are not geographically diverse. Not think thedid president was going to pick me because of that. But i and surely happy that he ignored me. And picked me anyway. It is hard to say who you would give up, because nobody wants to say it should be them. But i do think geographic. I think religious. God, but therein are issues that come up in terms of reactions where having a different perspective may be useful. But i also think that we are missing things on the court. We are missing any justice who has had criminal defense experience. Everybody has either been a u. S. Attorney, a government attorney. We do not have a civil rights lawyer except ruth. But we do not have one in bald in general involved in general civil rights. I think that is a type of practice that is different. Tony kennedy did a little bit of solo practice. But his was a unique practice in california. And it was a product of his dad. He joined his father. Weve got a a lot of firm lawyers. Except for me, there is no midsize or small, single practitioner. I think you need diversity, not just life background, but of legal experience background. We are being asked to decide questions involving not just ordinary people but the profession. One, if i had the power, which i do not, obviously, i would encourage the people who appoint justices or judges generally to look at that diversity. When senators ask me whta at i thought how they should pick nominees to district and circuit courts, i would say look at your bench and see what Life Experience or professional experience it is missing. And look for people who can bring and enrich the court with that. All of you have mentioned colleagueship and friendships on the court. We dont witness your interactions, both formal and informal. In some measure of her colleagueship im going to try something. Im going to ask each of you to tell us something about the other two. And maybe something we might not know or something we do knkow. I have chosen these pairings at random. So, sonia, tell us something about clarence. Name of every knows theclarence name of every employee in the court house from the lowest position to the highest. [applause] with virtually all of them he knows their families. Theirhappinesses and tragedies. It is, when robert he talked aboutm, his humanity and caring. That fact alone made me understand that as much as we may disagree on a lot of legal issues, we do not disagree on the fundamental value of people. Someone whorespect you disagree with legally if you start with that foundation in principle. Thank you. Sam, can you tell us something about sonia . Clarence, you can figure out. You can start thinking ahead. Lets see if you read my book. Every night. [laughter] think i am not going to tell you something that you do not already know, but these are traits i admire. Irasonia is very independent. She is very, very thorough in her preparation. Not only on the merits cases but on the hundreds of cert petitions that we discuss every term. She is very strong in her views, and she does not give up on the rest of us. Even when she sees we are going majority is going off in the wrong direction, you might just drop your hands and say, well, what can i do . But she has hope that she can convince us. She makes good arguments. And sometimes she succeeds. Great. Ive been called incessantly optimistic. Clarence . Goodness. She never gives up. [laughter] just relist that. Is, first of all, he is married to martha anne who is a delight and who is a wonderful person. Sam is really smart. Really funny. Principal. And a man of hi he is really funny. When he looks you in the eye and tells you something, you can take him at his word. That is a treasure. I tell my law clerks often that reputation is hard to build an easy to lose. I think with us, sam has a wonderful reputation of integrity and honesty. Plus, he is really a funny guy [laughter] and for some reason he likes those philadelphia teams, which i do not understand [laughter] one time we had a bet, and i won [laughter] theirst year on the bench, phillies and the yankees were playing against each other, and we made a lunch that. Would have to treat him to a philadelphia cheesesteak sandwich, and he would have to treat me to a new york hot. And a beer. And i got a really good lunch dog and a beer. And i got a really good lunch. Thank you, sam [laughter] on thertunately, this is 2009 world series. I think it is good to be a long time before we regrettably, i agree with you. This year, it is going to be kansas city. You often to your law clerks, reputation can easily be lost. Ask a final question and ask each of you, what is the important advice you can give to each of the students today . The students got in here by lottery. And, sam . I met with a really smart group of students who had the good sense not to ask me for advice. [laughter] advice that i actually gave him, but i will tell you advice that i would have given them if they had asked me. [laughter] people around here just give advice without being asked. [laughter] maybe it will filter out to them. But first and i dont know how relevant this is to their own experiences, because a lot of time has passed since i was here as a student but the first is to find your own path. When i was here, there were a lot of really smart students who had been on an achievement track. So the question was not, what do i want to do next, but what is the thing to do next as i compete to get into the best college and then get into the best law school and then get the best clerkship and then work for the best firm . At some point i think you need to get off that track and ask, what do you personally want to do . If you have not done it before when you graduate from law school, i think that is the time to do it. Confusend is not to juror legal career with your life. Dont make your legal career your entire life. Dont define your worth in terms of exclusively of what you do in your legal career. I know people from my law school in the past who did that, i think, and it led to very unfortunate consequences, so i dont think that is advice that i would have given but i did not have the chance. Thank you. . Onia will i dont know what the students would say, but i will change a little bit of what i said. When i was looking into which law schools to attend, i had narrowed it to harvard or yield, and harvard or yale. And i talk to some of those guys about the institutions. Every harvard graduate that i spoke to, Harvard Law School graduate, would say that the toughest years of my life were these, but i loved it. Every yale alumni that i talk to would say the best years of my life. In responseference was what had convince me to come to yale. I thought about why i said the same things. And i think it is part in what sam has to say, there is a model of success that people see and want to duplicate because that is the only model that they know of. But the one thing that i love about yale is that it lets you be passionate about what ever you want it to be. Amen. You can work with professors with whatever you want to do, and i love that. In others institutions, and they will remain nameless, are sort of picked by reason of how smart the professors think they are or the air picks for programs based on that. You could volunteer for almost any organization and get in. I hope that that is still the case. That ipoint basically is now echo sam. I told the students, be happy here. I did not finish my advice by whatg he happy by doing makes you happy, be passionate about what youre doing. That is the value of what youre getting. Thank you. Clarence . Well, i guess i tell them not to do what i did. [laughter] and i think sonia is right, there is a lot we did not know and i wish i came here at a time where i could have been more positive because there was so much here that i walked right by because i had close my eyes and my heart to it. Danforth with a lot of opening my eyes. When i met him again through g calabresi, who did not i remember meeting him when i was on campus. He was a young tall attorney general with that spot in his hair. Gray spot. He would clap with his hands clarence, and say plenty of room at the top plenty of room at the top thought, my god, that guy is off his rocker. [laughter] but i was be negative. I would like to convey an attitude of hopefulness. You are here. The bestt one of if not the best law schools in the nation. You are here make the most of the friendships and the opportunities to learn and to do things and to grow. I also suggest to them that when they take a job, the jobs are wonderful. There are lots of great jobs. But if all of the other things are equal, work for the person. Work for a good person. Turn aperson can difficult job into a wonderful job. A bad person can turn a beautiful job into a miserable job. For jacktunate to work danforth, and some people might not have thought the work was glamorous, but i got to work for a good man. Later, i think of him even in more of a positive light than when i worked for him in 1974. So i think it is important to work for good people, people of integrity, people who are i did notand finally, get a chance to say this to treatbut i think that you people the way they deserve to be treated, whether they deserve it or not. Theyre owed that. That is hard to do. A part of going to the things ist sonia mentioned earlier the ability to let things go. To forgive and to forget. To turn it to move on. What is not so easy. But you want to be forgiven. You want people to give you a pass sometimes. You want people to think better of you, say you do it to others. So i feel very strongly that we are required to treat people to beay that we want treated. Filing, even when it is hard, you are required to be honest. Not to give in to fads, and just to get along with others. A lot of people i grew up under segregation, and i am convinced that some people went along because it was easier to do that than it was to pose something that was dreadfully, morally wrong in our society. We are so very proud of all of you and we are grateful to you. Thank you [laughter] [applause] sunday, cspans American History looks at the lives of native americans. We begin with the battle of a , also known as custer partial last stand. And then we look at 9000yearold native american pictographs in montana, and a visit to a Spanish Mission in florida, devoted to converting native americans to catholicism. Here is a park officer attemptsg the u. S. s to take away land from the native americans, and how that spurred conflict. When european americans come across the west, x andwant to turn the siou the other tribes into christian farmers. Is not going to claw and scratch of the ground to make a living. Crazy horse is not going to surrender his pony and hook it up to a plow. They are hunters. They are warriors. That is their vision. Mid1870s, 1873, there is an economic crisis. The stock market crashes. There is the panic of 1870 three. People are losing their jobs in her life savings. There is 20 unemployment. Any of that ring a bell . [laughter] times in tough america. Ulysses s grant is the president of the United States. He has to ramp up the economy or he is not going to get reelected. He introduces a stimulus packet, and George Custer is going to provide it. Spansionads and ask into the black hills of south dakota. It is arally reality. There are gold supplies in the black hills. People say that all you have to do is go through the grass and pick up gold nuggets that get stuck on the bottom of your shoes. Deadwood. R into every one of these people are in an illegal alien, because the black hills belong to the sioux. People were allowed in the black hills. Wild bill hickox was shot in the back of the head playing cards at the number two saloon in deadwood. He is there illegally and so is his friend calamity jane. They were on sacred ground, the hills were black with timber. President grant sees an opportunity there and he wants to get at that gold and ramp up the economy and create jobs and put money in the treasury, so he is going to try to buy the black hills. 7 million. That is a lot of money. Sitting bull and crazy horse and others say no. Not for sale. Ground thatll the your ancestors walked on and now their bones like the beneath you beneath you. That led is not for sale. History of native americans, sunday, 2 45 p. M. Eastern. Senator carlchigan levin is retiring. He was first elected to the senate in 1979. He currently chairs the Senate Armed Services committee and the subcommittee on permanent investigations. In an interview with cspan, senator levin talks about the issues that still need to be addressed. This is about 30 minut