Transcripts For CSPAN Whistleblower 20240705

Military pilots and former Defense Department employee regarding unidentified aerial phenomena. They appear before a House Oversight subcommittee to give their firsthand account of uaps and discuss National Security, Government Transparency and reporting on the unexplained phenomena. The subcommittee hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena or uaps will come to order. Welcome, everyone. Without objection the chair may declare a recess at any time. Additionally without objection the following members are waived on the some committee for the purpose of participating in todays hearing, miss burchard of tennessee, ms. Luna of florida, mister pitts of florida, mister burleson of missouri, mrs. Ocasio cortez of new york and miss dora los of tennessee. Without objection so ordered. For todays subcommittee hearing, the chair and Ranking Member will have 10 minutes for opening remarks, we may give you some of those minutes to other members of the party. Now im going to recognize myself for 10 minutes. Im actually going to try to get out of here at 4 00 and then give it to some of my friends over here. Good morning and welcome to the most exciting subcommittee and congress of this we, the subcommittee on National Security at the border and Foreign Affairs for discussion of unidentified anomalous phenomena. I would like to thank the brave military pilots and personnel such as the witnesses on the panel today for sharing their stories on how they have engaged uaps which has brought attention to this matter. Curiosity and speculation from all walks of life have generated interest in studying what uaps are and what threats they may pose. I will say that when i was younger in school i read a book, 1966 book called flying saucers a mysterious business, for a while when i was a little younger i thought was the most important issue out there. The lack of transparency regarding uaps which was one of the themes of that book in any event it led interest in studying what they are and what threats they pose. La lack of transparency regarding uaps has fueled wild speculation and debate for decades eroding public trust in the institutions that are meant to serve and protect as is evidenced by the large number of people we have here. I want to point out in 1966 president gerald ford claimed to have seen a ufo and in 1969 in georgia jimmy carter claimed to have seen a ufo. This has led congress to establish entities to examine uaps, National Defense authorization act established the Resolution Office to conduct coordinated efforts across the department of defense and other federal agencies to detect, identify and investigate uaps. The budget remains classified prohibiting meaningful oversight from congress. In addition to aros efforts, nasa is leading an independent study on uaps to identify how data is gathered for civilian and Government Entities that can be analyzed to shed light, despite these offices being established, there is pressing demand for Government Transparency and accountability that cannot be overlooked. A problem that has been around for 50 years. The Biden Administration handling of a chinese spy balloon that violate us air pace is when example how the government is not prepared for the the Biden Administrations descriptive events showed the government continues not to be forthright between the chinese balloon being shot down, two uaps ups will be shot down earlier this year, the Us Government spent 1. 5 million in taxpayer dollars on missiles, we have seen more clarity from the Biden Administration. We must demand transparency from the department of defense, Intelligence Community and Defense Industry on uap work, the national questions about that today, congress recognizes the subject is multifaceted and requires careful datadriven approach. Today we will see clarity from these witnesses testimonies, we will seek clarity as to what can be done to improve reporting for military and civilians, committed to objective inquiry. Congress should work to ensure that knowledge is not driven by fear. Today we are not just obeying the existence of uaps but the liberating on the principles that define our public which a commitment to transparency and accountability. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. On ways we can approve government efficiency and openness when it comes to uaps which i think each of you for your presence and your dedication to safeguarding the interests of the American People. I look forward to your testimony. I will turn it over for 21 2 or 3 minutes to the representative from tennessee. Thank you mister chairman, thank you all for being here. I want to thank everybody for making this happen today and remind everybody this is a nonpartisan issue, this has nothing to do with party politics. The coverup goes a lot deeper than that. I want to thank my colleagues, representative luna beside me here, jared moscowitz, my friend across the aisle, and incredible mind, anxious to hear his questions. Its not in my notes but if it hadnt been for matt gaetz we would still be at eggland air force base trying to get some answers. And incredible legal mind. Also i saw george knapp, they are not witnesses but they provided some statements on this subject. I seek unanimous consent to enter those statements into the record. Without objection. Would like to enter, understand now this is unclassified Public Record but as we know that is sometimes difficult for the public to get a hold of. Defense intelligence reference documents, advanced space propulsion based on spacetime metric engineering, Light Reading for some of our members. Without objection. Mr. Knapp wrote since 1969 the position of the military is ufos pose no threat to National Security and are not worthy of further study which i say thats the biggest understatement of the decade. He goes on to talk about the dismissive attitude of what was revealed in documents, reports, internal memos. Mr. Cabrera says that ufo is emerging as a major topic of global importance. I can state that as a fact. I met a fellow who came all the way from denmark to be here for this meeting so this is worldwide. I think we suspect what is going on but i thank members of congress who support our efforts to make this happen. Some have confided to me they had ufo sightings of their own. Those members wish to remain anonymous and i will keep it that way but also i think these three brave witnesses here took an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and are doing it and we owe them a debt of gratitude. [applause] quit clapping, youre cutting in on my time. Just kidding. They ve got nothing to gain from this and you will find they have quite a few slings and arrows, need to remember them in their prayers and families, thank them for their honest testimonies. Theyve done interviews a, appeared in documentaries to get their stories out. Now they are here to testify under oath for congress. It has been difficult to get here today. In the Baptist Church we you say the devil is in our way. The devil has been in our way through this thing. Weve been in with roadblocks from the pentagon, proposed legislation for the faa reauthorization that said if an Airline Pilot has a sighting, when he makes the report to the faa it would come to congress but i was told the Intelligence Community did not like that and the amendment was not heard in committee. Its time for the country to take back our country. We need to tell the folks at the pentagon they work for us, we dont work for them and that is the point. This is an issue of Government Transparency, you cant trust a government that does not trust its peoples we are not bringing little green men or flying saucers into the hearing. We just get the facts. We will uncover the coverup and i hope this is just the beginning of many hearings of people coming forward about this and i yelled back the remainder of my time. We call on miss luna for her statement. The circumstances surrounding uaps captivated the attention of the American People for decades and even the minds of our nations leaders from jimmy carter to barack obama, Hillary Clinton to donald trump, marco rubio to chuck schumer, John Radcliffe to National Security Council Officials but from roswell, new mexico to the coast of jacksonville, florida, the sightings of uaps of really been explained by people with firsthand accounts of these situations largely due to lack of transparency by our own government and the failure of our elected leaders to make it on their promises to release explanations and footage and mountains of over classified documents that continue to be hidden from the American People. It is not just how i feel. The American People largely believe the government is actively covered up the truth about uaps. One pole in particular found 68 of americans believe the government is hiding information about uaps and not being honest about what we know about the man from my personal experience i believe the same thing. Another paul found half of americans believe the federal government is doing a bad or somewhat bad job of dealing with reports of ufo sightings as representative burchett reference, you can tell that is happening. Considering thousands of testimonies and videos taken on peoples phones and eyewitnesses by credible witnesses such as doctors, pilots, scientists and activeDuty Service Members, unacceptable to continue to gaslight americans into thinking this is not happening or the potential of intelligent life forms exist other than humans. Even more alarming is the fact that these eyewitnesses are servicemembers with no assurance their lives will not be negatively impacted or even harmed by their experiences. Being an active Duty Service Member working on an airfield, i have had conversations with many pilots in fear of coming forward for fear of retribution and or being taken off flight status. The government has said nothing to assure us otherwise. Also nothing to calm the concerns of 20 of americans who reported to have seen ufos or uaps. We are told not to question the government and the government has it under control. Today is the first hearing of its kind to get to the bottom of what is happening with uaps. We will hear from people who have had personal sightings rather than pentagon bureaucrats who have always been such to stonewall investigations. Just as the press knows and the people know, we are denied access to a classified briefing, due to the hoops we had to jump through to grant temporary clearance to witness russia has knowledge of classified information. Its time to have an openminded discussion on this topic, to hear the evidence and understand the magnitude of what this means not just for our nation but humanity. I yield the rest of my time. Thank you very much. I would like to thank you for bringing this topic to my attention. Now we recognize Ranking Member garcia. Thank you, mister chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today and begin by thanking you all for your service to our country and sharing your voices today and your courage to be heard as well. To mr. Graves, grateful to you you spent the time we have to share with candor your experiences. Appreciate that as well. I want to thank all members of the subcommittee today and those that are here, your incredible interest in this issue particularly congressman burchett, you brought us to this place it and i thank you for that and everyone else who has been engaged in this work. I want to thank the oversight staff who has been working hard to ensure that today appearing is serious, transparent and also provides appropriate answers as out oversight body demands. Its important we are here in a bipartisan way to have this conversation, which is about National Security and key to the subcommittees the subcommittee on National Security, our witnesses will testify today that uaps pose a serious threat and we must understand this. Or broadly we are dealing with your questions to get to the heart of our faith in government. Faith in our institutions is at an alltime low. Partisanship and alternative facts make it too easy to doubt our institutions. This hearing will offer the public unique perspectives. Building on years of recording by federal agencies and the independent media. The earliest reporting on this issue was a groundbreaking 2017 New York Times report which revealed research as we know now on unidentified anomalous phenomena which many car ufos by the Defense Intelligence agency. Mr. Graves, what is document it by the public, not just the New York Times, cnn and many other National News outlets. The office of the director of National Intelligence published public reports documenting uaps and on june 9th, 2022, nasa announced the agencies commissioning a study to examine unidentified anomalous phenomena. A number of reports, whistleblowers and stories of unidentified anomalous phenomena should raise questions on investigation and oversight and that is why we are here today. Pilots reported encounters for years but because of the stigma around reporting these incidents we dont have a complete picture of what is going on. Particularly as our witnesses will testify on the civilian side and thats a real problem. Its important that we show democrats and republicans in congress can come together in a bipartisan way to cut the misinformation and look at the facts in a serious and thoughtful manner. If we are to advance oversight we must gain the broad support of the public. We will succeed getting facts the public faster if there is a broad public support as part of the process. Understand the department of defense is hesitant to share information that could undermine National Security by revealing information on the cape release of our own aircraft, sensors and other sensor sensitive material. At the same time many people believe we are withholding information from the man that is dangerous also. I believe in openness and transparency that is also the role of congress and i want to trust the American People to way the evidence and make up their own minds. We have incidents with sensors, multiple sensors that detect things we cannot explain. Uaps whatever they may be may pose a serious threat to our military or civilian aircraft and that must be understood. My career and training as a longtime career educator and teacher and researcher tell me we should never rule anything out. We know that our space is vast and undiscovered. I also note mr. Sean kirkpatrick of the anomaly Resolution Office, the component of the dod office of investigation of uap data has testified before the senate this year that his unit has found no evidence of extraterrestrial activity. Nasa has stated they dont have evidence of extraterrestrial life either. We heard this from some of our Government Agencies and we should remind viewers and witnesses is important we also cannot share classified information in public settings. Questions remain that people want to see data and information for themselves. This hearing underscores the import of a fair and open look at the evidence from witnesses who can share their unique perspectives. I certainly have a lot of questions and all the members of the committee do as well. We should come to this hearing with an open mind and not let existing ideas restrict us on either side. Are here for many agencies the stigma around reporting and investigating uaps prevents us from getting real answers. Whistleblowers reported harassment, intimidation face stigma as well and this is not acceptable. If people cant report incidents which would have National Security or safety implications there are serious consequences for us. As Ranking Member of the subcommittee i know it is that at my job would be impossible if whistleblowers or others feel intimidated to come before the committee. We cant be afraid of asking questions and cant be afraid of the truth. Is hearing built on by bipartisan work by the house and senate dating many years back to increase awareness into the part of defense and to mandate more. The senate is taking up an amendment to a Defense Authorization bill to create a condition with broad authority, we can show that thats an important step. Members of both parties and senior official in multiple administrations have taken an interest in this issue and will build the confidence in the American People. This hearing will also not be the end of the discussion but a new chapter and start to years of work many folks in the public and in government have been working on. We should encourage more reporting, not less on uaps. The more we understand the safer we will be. We will hear testimony from witnesses with a long record of service to the American People and subject matter expertise. Witnesses have a unique opportunity to share aspect of some insights and experiences with the American People. I encourage my colleagues to engage in questions with an open mind and to follow the facts on behalf of our country. I want to say more broadly that we should look at this hearing and believe everything is on the table, an open mind is best. I want to yield to and a half minutes, the remainder of my time to the representative from florida, representative moskowitz who has been engaged in this issue and i want to thank him for his leadership. Thank you, Ranking Member garcia, thank you mr. Chairman, i want to thank burchett for pushing this hearing forward. I want to thank the Committee Staff and their staff working on this on a bipartisan basis because Many Americans are interested in this issue. It shouldnt take the potential of nonhuman origin to bring us together. I want to thank the witnesses for sharing your perspectives, thoughts, and unlike other hearings, many times in congress, you re not here to help a Political Party but to share information with the American People. It is not something going on in this administration but many administrations. For decades, Many Americans have been fascinated by objects mysterious and unexplained end it is past time it got some answers. Interview with fox news recent former director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe confirmed the u. S. Government is aware a lot more sightings of uaps, and that have not made that information public i quote, there are a lot more sightings that have not been made public the for me this ring is about transparency here we fortunately at a time which many people distrust government and our institutions and over classification of information away from the American Public or Even Congress contributes to todays politics the American People have regular questions but what are uaps . How come the need is a report or other parts are the four adversaries . Either use technology or Something Else . To ask themselves not come with a russian jet shoots flares out one of our show the American People and the world, but when it comes to uaps, nothing. Of course we must always protect our National Security to maintain our superiority, like when stealth helicopters were only reverted to exist but were used in the Osama Bin Laden rate in 2011. We cant allow that to be used as a shield to keep the American People completely in the dark from basic truths. The American People deserve to hear more about special Access Programs, congress is right you know if theres any unsanctioned weapons development. Satellite imagery that is not been provided to congress here congress created the ultimate Resolution Office in the ndaa of 2022. And its initial analysis there are 171 uncharacterized uap reports and this is in the works from the report that appeared to have demonstrated an unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities. I believe more information is known about the 170 what incidences its time for congress to reassure ourselves. I call on our military leaders and intelligence officials to release more information to the American People about uaps here at to our military leaders if theres nothing to conceal, let congress go to Wrightpatterson Air Force base come dugway proving ground or even room like in nevada we should have disclosure today. We should have disclosure tomorrow. The time has come. Thank you, Ranking Member spirit i would yield back now to our chairman. Thank you. I would like to introduce our witnesses get our first witness is lieutenant ryan graves, executive director of americans for Safe Aerospace lieutenant graves is also a former u. S. Navy f18 plan with his own uap experience. The next witness david grusch is a former Senior Intelligence officer with a National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and was a Senior Advisor for uap issues. And finally retired Navy Commander david fravor, Squadron Leader to work as a naval aviator for 18 years mr. Fravor has its own uap experience known as the ticktock event there on the forgery from all three of you today. Pursuant to Committee Rule nine gee, the witnesses will please stand and raise the right hands. Let the record show that all the witnesses answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. We appreciate you all being here today and look forward to your testimony. Reminder witnesses with regular written statements and they will appear in full in hearing record please try to limit your oral statements to five minutes or as reminder please press the button on the microphone in front of you so its on and neighbors can hear you when you begin to speak the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes it will turn yellow and the red light when it comes on tells you five minutes have expired. I will not recognize mr. Graves five minutes for your opening statement. Thank you. Chairman droplet and Ranking Member garcia established members of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, my name is ryan graves and on im a form f18 pilota decade of service in the u. S. Navy including two deployment and Operation Enduring freedom and operation and here it resulted i have experience in advance uap for state and an ear to voice their concerns than 30 commercial military veterans have been confided to her similar encounters with me. Today i would like to highlight three Critical Issues that demand our action. As we convene here uap are indoor air face but theyre grossly underreported 50 sightings are not rare or isolated. They are routine for military adequate commercial pilots kind of Services Like statement of accurate identification of frequently witnessing these phenomena. The stigma attached to uap is real and powerful and challenges National Security assignments commercial pilots, discouraged witness and only come out of a recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony. Parts of her government hardware for about uap than they let on excessive classification practices keep crucial information hidden. Since 2021 all uap videos are classified as secret or above fit this level of secrecy definitely beats her understanding but fueled speculation and distrust. And 2014 i was in f18 foxtrot pilot in the Navy Fighter Attack Squadron the rivers and i was stationed in Virginia Beach after upgrades relate to our jets Radar Systems we began detecting unknown objects operating in our airspace. At first we assume there were radar errors that simply begin to correlate the radar tracks with multiple onboard sensors including infrared systems eventually through visual id. During a Training Mission in boarding area at whiskey 70 7210 miles off the coast of Virginia Beach to like f18 Super Hornets were split by a uap. The object described as a dark gray or black cube inside of a clear steer came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft and with this medic to be five to 15 feet in diameter mission to better terminate the flight and return to base. Are squadron submitted a safe report but there was no official acknowledgment of the incident and know for the mechanism to report the sightings. Soon these encounters became so frequent that adequate we discussed the risk of uap as part of the regular preflight briefs. And answers i found a confounded americans for Safe Aerospace has become a habit for uap witnesses who were previous unspoken to the absence of a safe intake process. More than 30 after forward and almost 5000 americans have joined us in the fight for transparency at Safe Aerospace. Org. The majority of witnesses are commercial pilots that major airlines. Off of their veterans with decades of Flight Experience peer pilots are reporting uap at altitudes that appear above them at 40,000 feet potential in lowearth orbit or integrates a below the carbon line. Making on expendable maneuvers like writing terms and retrograde orbits or jayhawks but sometimes visible to recovery with numerous recent sightings growth of life in the north atlantic. Other veterans are coming forward regarding uap encounters in our airspace. And oceans picked the most compelling observations of uap by multiple witnesses and such assistance do i believe these accounts are only scratching the surface and more will share their experience as once it is safe to do so. In closing i recognize the skepticism surrounding this topic here if everyone could see the center and video data i witness our National Conversation we change that i urge us to put us at stigma addressed the security and safety issue this topic represents peer if budget uap for growth is an urgent National Security project if it is Something Else it is an issue for science. In either case under different objects are concerned for Flight Safety for the American People deserve to know what is happening in their skies. It is long overdue. Thank you. Mr. Grusch. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Members and congressmen thank you per am happy to be picked this is important issue and im grateful for your time. My name is david grusch i was an Intelligence Officer for 14 years in both in the u. S. Air force, both active duty Air National Guard and reserve at the rank of major and most recently from 2021 to 2025, 2023, at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, nga at the gs15 severity level which is military equivalent to full bird colonel. I with my agencys colead and under defined anomalous phenomena and trades media object analysis as well as reporting to the uap task force, uap tf and eventually once it was established all domain anomaly peer advocate of whistleblower through ppd 19 urgent concern filing in may 2022 with Intelligence Community Inspector General ware following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and Intelligence Committee individuals that the u. S. Government is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regards to uaps. My testimony is based on information i have been given by individuals with a longstanding track record of legitimacy and service to this country. Many of whom also shared compelling evidence in the form of photography, physical documentation and classified oral testimony to myself and many my various colleagues appeared i have taken every step i captive collaborate this evidence over a period of four years while i was with the uap task force and do my Due Diligence of the individual sharing of it for this is because of the steps i believe strongly in the importance of bringing this information for you but i am driven by a commitment of both to truth and transparency rooted in our inherent duty to uphold the United States constitution and protect the American People. Im asking because to hold our government to stand and thoroughly investigate these claims. That as a stander under oath i am speaking to the facts as i have been told them. In the u. S. Air force and my National Reconnaissance office, nro reservist capacity, i was a member of the uap task force from 20192021 i served at the interoperation center on the directors briefing staff which included the coordination of president ial daily brief and supporting variety Contingency Operations which i was the reserve Intelligence Division chief of backup. In 2019 the uap Task Force Director asked me to identify all special Access Programs and control Access Programs notice apps and caps near to status are congressionally mandated mission and we were direct reported at the time. At the time due to my extensive executive level intelligence support duties i was cleared to literally all relevant compartments and in a position of extreme trust both in my military and civilian capacities. I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multidecade uap rash retrieval and reverse engineering program. To which i was denied access to this additional regards when i requested it. I made the decision based on the data i collected to report this information to my superior, superiors, multiple inspectors general. And, in fact, becoming a whistleblower. As you know i have suffered retaliation for my decision but im hopeful my actual ultimately lead to a positive outcome of increasing transparency. That you and am happy to answer your questions. Thank you. Commander fravor. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman, congressmen, congresswomen hear about your first thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee on the uap topic thats been in the news for the past six years and seems to be continued to Gain Momentum for action of my name is david fravor, retired command and tried it may be. I was a Commanding Officer Strike Fighter squadron 40 with the worldfamous lactase is the lack aces. On this day were scheduled for training with the uss princeton as our control. When relaunched off my wingman was joining out we were told the train was going to be suspended and we were going to proceed with realworld tasking. As we pursue to the west of the air control is counted down the ridge to object that we were going, unaware of what were going to see when we arrived. The controller told us these objects have been observed for over two weeks, down from over 80,000 feet rapidly descending to 20,000 feet, hanging out for hours and then going straight back up for those not realized about 80,000 feet above space. We arrived at the location at berkeley 20,000 feet of the control called birchbark which means our radar blip was now in the same resolution so as a contactor as he looked really nospaceoff\no space off somewhat water off our right sector supported out the weather on the state was as close to perfect as you can answer off the coast of san diego, clear skies light waves calm seas whitecaps waves so the white water stood out in the large blue ocean. All four of us because we are f18 with pilots and wills in the backseat looked out saw small white ticktock object pointing north south and moving very abruptly over the water like a pingpong ball trick there were no rotors, no greater washer and he signed a visible control surfaces like wings as we started clockwise toward the object we decide to go down to take a closer look at the other craft staying at high, to observe both us and the tictac. We proceeded around the circle about 90 degrees part of artist in any object object suddenly shifted its longitudinal axis aligned with my aircraft and began to climb. We can get it continr 270 degrees nose low with the tictac, 230 degrees nose low to where the tictac would have been to our altitude is about 50,000 feet and the tictac was about 12,000 or thousand portals on to the object with about half mile at rapidly accelerated and disagreed. Are wing man roughly 8000 feet of office plus contact also. We turned back to see where the white water was out and was gone also. We started to turn back towards the east, the controller commitments it that thing is that your catholic roughly 60 miles away less than a minute. You can calculate the speed we returned to nimitz, taking offered youre talking one of my crews could write a lot would mention it to him that at t out and likely got the video that you see that 90secondly to pick what you do see is a radar released and we dont know where its at the act of jamming the object put on a pg 73 dark and i can get into those later if youre interested. What a shock address the incident was never investigated or that of my crew have a question at apple aspect after a couple days at 20 degrees to with friends. It was until 2009 they contact me to investigate a minister he was part of the program and the pentagon led by unofficial official particular pastel on the internet or years later i was contacted by the other aunt alex and asked if id been contacted and i said no but im willing to talk to her i was contacted and we talked for a short time and he said wed be in contactor a few weeks after that i was made aware lou left the pentagon practice and join forces with tom delong, chris, steve and others to follow two Stars Academy and organization the post issue with leading Industry Experts and use, and officials that they work with leslie came was present today to publish articles and New York Times 2017 New York Times and remove the stigma on the topic of ufos which is why we hear today. Those articles open the door for the government and public that cannot be closed or its like to enter from our elected officials who are not focus a little green men figure out where these craft are where the front of the technology they possessed, how do they operate period led to the whistleblower protection act in the ndaa. Ultimate witness, for to say that a firsthand knowledge and mr. Grusch, that the white conciliator is a overset from our elected official anything associate with argument processing of working on craft beer believe enough of this will bring this issue is not a full Public Disclosure that could undermine National Security but it is about ensuring our system of checks and balances works across all work done any government using taxpayer funds. Even mcdonalds wave programs have some level oversight by the appropriate Committee Members in the house and senate and this work that that is said to e occurring from whistleblower testimonies should not be exempt i would like to say the tictac object were engaged in 2004 was far superior to anything we had ontime, after they are looking to develop in the next ten years but if we have programs that possess this technology in each of oversight from those people that the citizens of this great country elected in office to represent what is best for the United States and best for the citizens. I thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for i know it is difficult for all of you in the past to try to eliminate this issue, so first for some questions. Im going to start with mr. Graves. Are your pilots, pilots and that you interact with as part of your organization do you feel adequately trained and briefed on how to handle encounters with uaps . No. Right now military witnesses to uap have limited options for reporting uap. But more concerning is that commercial aviation sector has not adapted to the lessons that military has implemented. The military department of defense has stated uap represents a critical aviation safety risk. We have not seen that same language being used in the commercial markets to they are not acknowledging this risk. What steps do you think have to be taken to improve a pilots uap reporting . The military or commercial. We need a system or pilots can report without fear of losing their jobs. There is a fear that the state associate with this topic is going to lead to professional repercussions either management or perhaps through their yearly physical check having a secure system reducing the stigma and making this available this Information Available to the public is going to reduce the concerns that aircrew have. Please give me an idea the degree to which reports in the past are not made public right now. I dont think it has been a proper reporting system to gather those reports and does not report impaired to answer your question i think there is a dearth of data due to the fact the reporting has been limited up to this time. Could you tell me why you believe its, play the devils advocate, a reason why some of the stuff should not be available to the publics request for some National Security concerns will use our advanced sensors that are tactical jets to be able to identify these objects however there is no reason that the objects themselves would be classified here i would be curious to see how the security classification guideline actually spells out the different nuances of how this topic is classified from the perspective of uap, not National Security. Assuming there are reasons why not all the should be made public, this has been r a long period of time. Can you think, can any of the three of you think of any reason why anything related to uaps say 15 years and back should not be immediately made public . Whatever it is technology a vulnerability both from a collection and ill just say a countermeasure perspective. Even say 20 years back, answer any reason why you go back there for things shouldnt be made public . Unless it has a specific National Security vulnerability as it relates to our weakness in particular defense. Mr. Fravor, the tictac incident that you engaged that occurred in 2004, what have reported took place after that incident . Nonpeer we had a standard debrief with the back cedars went out to our carrier intel center embry what had happened. That was it. Would also talk to us and i was in the top 20 in the battle group work no one came here captain was work, and a was working for nothing was done. Did your Commanding Officers providing sort of justification . No, because i was the Commanding Officer of the squadron. So, no. Was this incident the only uap event that you would count while encountd while you were a pilot . Yes, it was. Okay. This is for anyone if you. Based off of each of your experiences and observations do you believe uaps pose a potential threat to our National Security . Yes, and heres why. The technology that we faced was far superior to anything that we had you could put that anywhere. If you had one, you capture buncombe reverse engineered it, you have to work your talking something going to space, the simplest of dropped out in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants and leave, and theres nothing we can do about it. Nothing. Okay. I would also like to add from commercial aviation and military aviation perspective, we deal with uncertainty in our operating space as a matter of our protection, professional actions. Identify friend from foe is very important to us. So we have identified data to identify target of we continue to ignore this due to a signal or fear of what it could be thats an opening that emphasis can take advantage of. What steps should be taken about our understand and respond to uap encountered an interest of National Security . There needs to be a location where this information a centralized processing added to a communication loop so the operators on the front and have the feedback and can get the best practices on how to process information, what to do and to ensure that the reporting is big listen to. Right now theres not a lot of backandforth. Mr. Grusch, in your complaint to the Intelligence Community inspector come Inspector General, you claim you believe information is being hidden. What information do you think was hidden and do you think it should remain hidden . Yes, i can speak to the priestly and unclassified made up your as you know the providers provider supply complete was classified to the intelligence communities. Both material acquisition and exploitation activity, also baselining the uaps but not sharing it with intelligence professionals that are doing step breeze to pilots, that kind of information. Thank you very much. Now we will go to mr. Garcia. Thank you. I can thank you all for your service ever testify today. Want to talk about the uaps as it relates to what were saying and the pilots interaction with uaps. Mr. Graves what are the concerns for members of this committee is this idea that pilots, theres a system to report uaps and the stigma around pilots. Can you briefly imagine youre working with 30 pilots that have had encounters with uaps but youve also i believe discussed and know of many of our pilots. This is of those that are currently working with, is that correct . Can you expand on that . Will break that down into ways. When we were first experiencing these objects off the eastern seaboard in the 20142015 timeframe anymore that had upgraded to Radar Systems were seeing these objects there were a large number of my colleagues that were detecting these objects off the eastern seaboard. They were further correlating that information with other onboard sensors and many of them also at their own eyesight is as well of these objects. This is something a briefing to new students, something that was included in the notice to airmen to ensure there was no accident. And i with commercial aviator there reaching out because theyre having a similar experience as a military brothers and sisters but they do not have any reporting system they can send this to. Let me add, both to mr. Fravor as well as mr. Graves. Not having the system for reporting, which both agree its harmful to not just a National Student interest but to understand the phenomena whats happening with uaps . I think its actually a travesty we do have a system to correlate with this and investigate if he took the east coast, theres coastal radars out there that monitor air defense identification zone. Out the 200 miles. They can contract these so u see them they could do and pull that data and get maneuvering there instead of having the airplanes theres other data sources out there for talk to other government officials need a centrally located repository these reports go to. If you stuck it in dod you would get anything out of the Intelligence Committee because emma tends not to talk but had a Central Location with his reports would come in because a lot of that going on especially for talk to anyone that flies from here to hawaii over the pacific face the lights. You need to develop something that allows you a Central Point to collect the data in order to investigate. And mr. Graves. I would concur with everything mr. Fravor super i look at your site for commercial pilots that have reached out to me to americans for Safe Aerospace are doing so because they dont feel theres another way for them to report the safety issues for one of the good outcomes of this hearing already is that there has to be a safe and transparent reporting process pilots both in the commercial side and in the countryside to report uaps in a way thats transparent but also understand the scope of our National Security interests and what may be classified or not but there has to be some sort of system thats how they hope to be outcome that this committee can work on. Is there anything else just for the two of you briefly gone this reporting system you think we could do as can do as a government to encourage and facilitate more civilian reporting . Where doing it right now appear i think this hearing is going to show the American People that are catholic takes this topic seriously. How about civilians that mean that the pilot . What process could be a place for civilians who are not pilots who may have uap encounters do you have suggestions that could facilitate that . My recommendations would be to make that a sensor centric operation in order to make it as objective as possible. Mr. Fravor . I agree with mr. Graves on that. Just briefly. I also want to note particularly for the two pilots and a question for mr. Grusch for one of the things i found that our conversation last night as you both describe uaps information in the way they are absorbed in space or in our air and the way that the move is essentially ways in which Current Technology or aircraft that we know are unable to function or move. Where you just for the Public Record again once again just briefly describe or note that aircraft that are being witnessed particularly by the 30 folks youre working with are essentially outside the scope of anything we know today as the technology we have today for mr. Yesterday objects that are being seen by commercial pilots are performing maneuvers that are unexplainable due to our current understanding of our technology and capabilities as a country contributor that applies for the military as well. I concur with that. We have nothing that can stop in midair and go the other direction no do with anything that can like at our our, death nospace\no space hang out for three hours and go back up. Last question but sometimes youve also said some of these answers in the past will try to get them on the Public Record which is really important mr. Grusch do you believe our government is in possession of uaps . Absolutely based on interviewing over the witnesses. And where . I know the exact locations in those locations were provided to the Inspector General and some of which to the Intelligence Committees. I have the people with the firsthand knowledge provide a protected disclosure to the Inspector General. Tried to i would say i think these questions are important questions and i look forward to being involved in the process to get those answers i yield back. Thank you for we will go to mr. Richard himself. Fiftyone. Thank you mr. Garcia part i would like to have you on legislation to do just that on the reporting. We will get together on that. Be michaels ellipsis that would be really cool to thank you for this great questions. Again i would like to know how do you know that these are not our aircraft . Some of the behaviors we saw in the working area, we would see these objects being at 0. 0 mock, zero airspeed, over certain pieces of the grantor just like a river if you throw a bobber and its going to flow downstream of these objects e staying completely stationary and category for electric and whispered they would accelerate to supersonic speed 1. 1, 1. 2 mock to do so in very erratic and quick behaviors that i dont have an explanation for. Have you spoken to commercial and military pilots that are seeing these off of her east coast . I have. Mr. Fravor, i noticed that in the tictac video, its tictac like the candy, not ticktock like the Chinese Communist app. Thats correct. I just want to make that because my daughter corrected me on that and called me a boomer and said hey mom and i said no, they become its tictac like the candy, look at it. So i would like to say today is a day of many firsts. Its a miracle were having this meeting and is also a miracle that my wife has put up with me for nine years to date her today is my anniversary selected, wife happy anniversary and i love her very much. As you like to say this nine years have been the best two years of her life. So thank you. Mr. Fravor, what astonished you the most about the flight capabilities of these tictac, very briefly . The performance. Absolute performance. Were not aware of any other objects that anybody in the world has in this world that has those capabilities are . Note that i think is far beyond actual material sites that we currently possess. Are you aware of any other reconnaissance platforms that track record the tictac maneuvers, maybe norad or others . Im not. Mr. Grusch, thank you for being here, brother. Thank you all very much. Have you faced retaliation or reprisals for your testimony or anything on these lines . The. I have to be careful what i say in detail because there is an open whistleblower reprisal investigation on my behalf and i dont want to compromise that investigation by providing anything that may help provide somebody information. But it was very brutal and very unfortunate, some the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally to be quite frank. Its very important as they say when you over the target thats when they do the most firing at you do you have personal knowledge of people have been harmed or injured in an effort to cover or conceal the Extraterrestrial Technology . Yes. Personally. Have you heard anyone been murdered that you know of or have heard of i just . I have to be careful asking that question are i directed people with without knowlee appropriate authorities. Maybe if we could get in a confidential area, skiff, we could talk about that but, unfortunately, we were denied access to the skiff and assert unfortunate in this scenario. S mr. Fravor, do you believe that you witness an additional object under the water in relation to your encounter . I will say we did not see an object that there was something there to cause whitewater and will return around it was god so that it was the resultin. The post office and object that you look at, correct . No. Which of the tictac was communicating with something your when we came back because the whitewater disappeared. In and of instance we were told about the capabilities of a jamming during viewing when there were some people chasing some of these objects appear did you experience any of that . My crew as when an expert significant jamming of the rater was mechanically scanned very high in system prior to the aag 79. And yes, it did pretty much everything you could do range philosophy aspect and that it put the lock. Im about to run out of time but are you aware of any of our enemies that have that capability . No. Okay. I would also like to note for the record that like george knapp, breaking any factual history i knew about that and resigned to about the tictac is leslie kane from New York Times article and i would encourage everybody to read that. Thank you, mr. Chairman yield back with you with no time. Very good. Mr. Raskin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Graves, he reported uap encounters during the training flights i think, and essence come forward toward the pentagon that these encounters may be putting pilots at risk. My first question is, youve identified these as taking place on the east coast just on east coast where these encounters have been reported. Was no. Since the events initially y occurred i have learned that the objects have been detected essentially all operations may be maybe operations are being conducted across the world. Doubts from the ultimate anomaly Resolution Office reporting. Can you describe your experience after you decided to come forward and go public with your experience . Certainly better like many others in 2070 i saw a New York Times article, as well, and for me it was special because i recognize voices on the video period i recognize the video itself that i had seen it when it was taken for i have seen it when it was debriefed. That should make because i realize this problem was still ongoing so i reached out to collect back on east coast and realized this still a safety risk they were dealing with that they essentially hit a wall without the could move forward on this conversation for it was then when i decide to try to move the conversation forward myself . Are the common characteristics to the uaps data been cited by different pilots and can you describe what the convergence of descriptions is . Certainly pick we were primarily sink dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere. Dark gray or black cubes . Yes come inside of a clear sphere with the apex or tips of the cable touching the inside of that sphere. That was primarily what was being reported when we are able to create a visual tally of his objects. That occurred over almost eight years as far as i know it still occurs. So i take it you are doing what we need is Real Transparency in reporting system so we can get some clarity on whats going on out there because there are many pilots in your situation, but we should have a way of developing a systematic inventory of all of such encounters, is that right . Yes. I think we need both transparent and the reporting period we have the reporting but we need to make sure information could be promulgated. Mr. Grusch, what about you, what was your experience after you came forward . Well, its only been about two months or so, so i guess my experience has been overwhelming support from former colleagues of mine that have privately messaged me. I do appreciate that but i do have knowledge of active plant reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues, and its very upsetting to me. Coming from where . Certain Senior Leadership at previous agencies i was associated with it and thats all i will say publicly but i can provide more details and make closed environment. I hope you understand there would be bipartisan rejection of any attempt. It makes me upset as a leader to see that happen to other coworkers and actually superiors of mine the last three years. How do you account for that response existed like a bizarre response. Administrative terrorism. Ask their quiver, there to enter toolbox, dishonest people especially the career Government Service cares about their career, cares about their clearance, a reputation to climb the ladder when you threatened that flow career path, a lot of people back off modern here to represent those people. Mr. Fravor, what about you . What has your experience been since you have come forward with your perspective on this . Actually i penetrated very well the six people they involve myself included all of them have i will be retiring from the military has 05406 and all my friends that are very senior three and four stars i talked to them, they believe they understand theres a problem i was actually treated really well. What is your general interpretation of these phenomena . What is your current thinking of trying to make sense of them . Im not like a ufo fanatic. Its not me and i will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a five minute period still theres nothing to with nothing close to it there it was amazing to see it i told my buddy i wanted to fly it is just an Incredible Technology director fred to thank you very much. I yield back to you. Thanks. Ms. Luna. Mr. Grusch, speaking to you yesterday, i just wanted to follow up on mr. Raskin questions but in the last couple of years have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues . Yes, personally. I want everyone to note hes coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really scared about this information coming out why would someone be intimidated like that . To your knowledge are nh eyes nk with addison for government in either Technology Exchange programs or back Injury Program . I dont have data on that im not sure. Have you heard or have your people come from to present that evidence . Not that particular evidence that you just expound. On the 19th of april doctor kirkpatrick had his arrow stated that finding evidence of uaps but he also stated you had in your interview you brief, information and covering but that he did not follow up with you or the items that you divulge to them a threat to National Security. Yes. We had a class i conversation april 2022 before he took over arrow in the july 2022 that i provided him some concerns i had. Do you know why he might not of follow up with you . I cannot read his mind i wish he did. I was happy to give sage counsel to them on where to look when he took the helm. Advance my last question for you before i move to mr. Graves, is you received prior approval from the Defense Department to speak on certain issues, correct . Correct, through dod republication and security review and what remind the public they are just looking for the securities perspective pictures of my own personal views and opinions about the departments per im going to ask you that mainly because i think that many people that would like to discredit you, so it does bring does bring a certain amount of credibility to your customer. I required by law to do that as a form of intelligence of his art go to jail for revealing classified information. We dont want you to go to jail. My next question would be for mr. Graves. Can you explain to me in detail the event that occurred at Vanderburgh Air Force base . Certainly. In the 2003 timeframe a large group of boeing contracts e operating near one of the launch facilities when they observed a very large 100yard cited red square approach the base m the ocean and have a humble attitude over a large facility this object remain for about five seconds or so before darting off over the mountains. Was assimilated within 24 hours later in the evening for this is a morning event i believe 8 45 in the morning close to sunset the reports of other sites on base including some aggressive behaviors if these objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off and this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that approached me at americans for Safe Aerospace. Was this document in any official form whether a Police Blotter . Yes official documentation and records that the witness held over the years. The good ask you to get right now for time we suspect youll be able to sketch for this . Have you seen that before. Was undressing with a described. This object was estimated to be almost the size of a football field and im not seeing anything personally that large. Another question on followup referencing the gimbal video go fast incident or can you clarify because our understanding the footage was cut off at a certain point but what happens at the end of that video, just to those americans specifically that he wanted to know about the rest of the footage . There was some uncertainty or instability with the object it seemed to rock a bit and thats the last ive seen of the video. Much of the data i would recommend be analyzed would consist of radar data. That would provide precise schematics on the object as was the fleet of objects the property nearby. In regards to reporting procedures mr. Garcia addressed as well as mr. Burchett, with the faa to understand pilots that distinguish commercial Airline Pilots, are they receiving cease and desist letters for coming forward with information in regards to safety for potential Airline Passengers . I have been made privy to conversation with commercial aviators who have received cease and desist order. The American Public should know corporations are putting their own reputations, not the line but i had at the safety of the American People and i think would you agree with that statement . It appears as though. I guess this would be t desperate amount of time. I yield. Ill be back. Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, lets talk about the laws of physics for second. Mr. Graves and commander fravor i heard you talk about speed. Witness objects broke the sound barrier did it make a sonic mode . I was in a jet you cant hear anything. Its kind of light and their part. You are not able to personally tell within the vehicle to it i will say the object loosely they were spherical and were observed out to mark 2twomac which is y nonaerodynamic shape. What about g forces . Code here would survive those of g forces with no Technology Today . No part. Not for the acceleration rates that we observed. What about with a look like, how close did you get . You see a theme or a rivet or a section . What it means it is obviousle jet you if i have all those things did these objects have those . I didnt have the detail to be able to tell that. So we got within a halfmile of tictac which peoples that is preforming airplanes thats relatively close it was perfectly white, smooth, no windows although when we did take the original flavor video that is out there, when you put on a big screen that had to buckle objects that came out of the bottom of it but other than that no windows, no seams, no nothing. As a result of your previoUs Government word as he met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge of self of nonhuman origin craft . Yes, i personally interviewed that those individuals. Mr. Grusch as a result of your previoUs Government work having met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge of self about a tease, advanced technologies that the u. S. Government has . Based on conventional advanced that i was briefed to the preponderance of the Defense Department nospace\no space and Aerospace Department programs. Do you have knowledge or reason to believe that our programs in the advanced textbased or unsanctioned . Yes, i do. Okay. And when you say there above congressional oversight, what do you mean . Complicated question. So there so i would call it abuse, so congressional oversight unconventional special Access Programs or other use title ten, so duty as an example so ten u. S. Code section 119 discusses congressional oversight saps, discusses that ability to waive congressional reporting for however thinking of eight is supposed be notified if you wait or wait bigoted acknowledged status created and as public law. I dont want to catch off but how does a program like that get funded . I give you generalities. I can get very specific in a closed session but misappropriation of funds. Does that mean that there is money in the budget that are set to go to a program but it doesnt and consistently a . Yes. I specific knowledge of that. Do you think u. S. Corporations are overcharging for certain tax they are selling to your stomach about additional money is going to programs. Was correct to something called i wrap. Satellite imagery. Lets talk let satellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place, so that we are aware of and make that we are not aware of, right . We are taking pictures of everything at every point in second mr. Grusch, are you where you have direct knowledge or talk to people who have direct knowledge or satellite imagery of these events . That was one of my primary tasks at nga since we process explore and disseminate that kind of information. Ise multiple cases some of which to understand and, of course, i left nga in april so thats what information cut off date but i personally reviewed both what we call overhead collection and for other strategic and tactical platforms that i cannot even explain another degree in physics by the way as well. I am aware you guys have not seen these reports unfortunately and i dont know why. Do you have direct knowledge or have you spoken to people with direct knowledge that this imagery applies to crash sites, crash imagery . I cant discuss that in an open session. Okay. Do you have any information that the u. S. Government is involved in a Disinformation Campaign to deny the existence of certain uaps . I cant do beyond what ive already stated publicly in my new summation interview because it touches other sensitive. Of sensitivi. I will yield with the balance of my time back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Foxx thank you, mr. Chairman, and i think our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Grusch come in your sworn testimony you state that the United States government has retrieved supposedly extraterrestrial spacecraft and other uap related artifacts you go so far as to state that the u. S. Is in possession of, quote, nonhuman spacecraft, in the quote. And that some of these artifacts have circulated with defense contractors. Several other form of military and intelligence officials have come forward with similar allegations, albeit in nonpublic settings. However, doctor Shawn Kirkpatrick the director of aar oh previously testified before congress that there has been, and i quote, no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity or of, quote, off World Technology brought to the attention of the office. To your knowledge, is a statement correct . Its not accurate but i believe doctor kirkpatrick mentioned he had about three inventions that attempt to aero thus far but a few you hae to aero but also interviewed at a note with a provided doctor kirkpatrick and 13. I was able to evaluate speed is okay. I need to go on. But my understanding, his statement is accurate, came from a direct quote. This contradiction is a perfect example of why we need to inject transparency into our government. Another example, look no further than the pitiful response to the chinese spy balloon the bottle earlier this year. You may remember the mass confusion that ensued when the balloon was first spotted over montana \40{l1}s{l0}\40{l1}s{l0} after it first entered u. S. Airspace over alaska. The Biden Administration initial inability to address the object grew into a continuous series of embarrassments. After news of the balloon reached main street, Mainstream Media we were assured that the balloon posed no threat to our security. However, after the balloon was allowed to transit the entire continental United States, fighter jets were scrambled off the coast of South Carolina to shoot it down there this flipflopping and obfuscation caused needless confusion, fear and panic across the country. Its my hope, trying to death assorted confusion trent to will not be repeated. We should ask investigate possessor do not possess information that is of critical value to the American People. We all went to the citizens of this nation to make sure that our government is transparent and accountable. We must make sure that our government provides answers and Congress Must do it the duty to solicit those answers without, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Frost. Thank you, mr. Chairman in 2022, nasa announced it was commissioned s commissioned an independent study team to examine uaps and nasa team is comprised of sites across different fields as well as former astronauts and pilots here in may the independent study team held that its first Public Meeting which included the perspectives from nasa Senior Leaders as well as perspectives from the department of defense and intelligence agencies, with the nasa study team is also expected to release its first report pretty soon and i think its safe to say out legally await its results. Mr. Graves, how might nasas research influence of the commercial industry regarding safety in uap . Mass has a big role to play as far as commercial aviation safety and its one of the original charges as an organization one of the recommendations that help bring forward is to utilize their existing aviation safety reporting system to serve as a shortterm filling trusted platform for crimes they want to report on ua peter it has builtin analytics capability and is funded by congress. Also are there any other industry that may be influenced by the nasa research on uaps . And if so how self . There is a larger swath of commercial capabilities for could be brought to bear on this topic from spacebased Program Based Sensor Systems available open source or through commercial marketplaces. Masses work as a work to identify and highlight specific parameters that can be found we can take information and public a visit to the Public Sector so we can have more open conversation about what we are seeing. In 2020 the department of defense released several videos of uaps including mr. Fravor experience u. S. Navy pilots the recorded footage in 2021 the office of the director of National Intelligence released a preliminary report on uap if it nasa administrator will nelson stated i could stated nasa would begin to investigate these events. I set aside space and Technology Committee and when we were doing a hearing with the nasa administrator bill nelson asked why nasa needed to be fully funded, many great reasons but one of them was actually had to do with uaps he mentioned his life out there . I dont know so either way these actions ultimately led nasa to assemble the independent study team that i mentioned earlier. Also in 2021 Harvard University set up the Galileo Project to research and examine the origins of uap. It seems like both from nasa and the Higher Education community because of the work that you all have done and people standing up, i think were seeing some of that stigma slowly going away. Mr. Fravor, do you believe military plans usually empowered to share the uap experiences has directly impacted the scientific Communities Research goals on this topic . I would suggest that i would say that starting in 2017 when it came out it took that stigma away. I talked to multiple senators who said prior to that if you richard uap you have been left off the helper now were sitting here today for a public testimony on was actually going on. Im hoping that this will be more of an exponential and we will get more and more transparent to the level that we can. Its important. I couldnt imagine, im not a product but used to fly gliders in Civil Air Patrol [inaudible] yeah, i got it. So either way i meet i can imagine being in the glider and saying something, and then not feeling like i had the agency to talk about it. Mr. Graves, can you discuss the importance of seeking site assistant your Advisory Board . Ultimately this is going to be a scientific problem its also an engineering problem. Ive been working with the American Institute of aeronautics and astronautics took the stand upright uap Immigration Committee to help integrate their engineering prowess and it is public so yes very much i think this is an engineering and scientific problem as much as a National Security products. How might Congress Help to the select partnerships between the Scientific Community and the unity focus groups within government . One of the things they do have these types of hearings to communicate to the public that this is a topic of interest. There is a supermarket if you will of interest capabilities and towels after metallic to want to approach this topic and wishing that start to grenell. Continue conversation, reduction stigma to allow that to flourish and allow answers to help generate themselves. 100 pure thank you for your work negative or we keep our top Scientific Minds focus on this issue and look for ways to increase collaboration peer taking so much. I yield back. Mr. Comer. Thank you, mr. Chairman perk i want to thank you for having history i do want to thank mr. Burchett, ms. Luna for leading this theory and without ideal by five minutes to mr. Burchett. Thank you, mr. Chairman paired im going to direct this i believe to mr. Grusch but if any of you all feel like you need to jump in just jump right in, we are doing to. As the u. S. Government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial or otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence . If so when you think this first occurred . I like to use the term nonhuman, keeps aperture often both scientifically. Certainly like i discussed publicly, previously 1930s. Okay. Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct firsthand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval, somebodys crash retrieval programs and made which facilities military bases that the recovery victory would be in . We could get that in a skiff with you . Sure, if you have access. What programs cover this information and how is it possible they evaded oversight for so long . I drove flames we can discuss publicly. Enclosed setting i could tell you specifics. When you think the programs stand . I do know that information but its not something to discuss publicly. Your more than welcome what level of security clearance for these programs . And i say that because myself, or preserve its were basically turned away at one time. Member access and someone like me with clearance meeting criteria and they should be able to grant access. There is nothing you are aware of the program has . Executive order has these levels. We cannot access to those programs so the notion we are not given the access here. Thank you. Title x and 50 authorization seems to say they are inefficient, whose is this . Career officials. Government officials . That is. That leads to my next question. Which private corporations are involved in this program . Which money has been invested in these programs . We know we are at the pentagon every year and they fell at every year, lose hope over a billion dollars every year and 60 are unaccountable for. Go to jail for that kind. On my travel voucher if you sell 600 worth so yes. Federal specific corporations divisions, i expect 11 and a half hours. Is there an active u. S. Government campaign by unidentified aerial phenomena . I cant go beyond what ive already exposed. Ive been told to ask you what that is and how to get into the record. What to say publicly for the record books. If you reference my interview and talk about multi Decade Campaign franchise public interest. I apologize, i yield back negative 21. Thank you to our witnesses for coming here today. I concur with the Ranking Member and those here that this is the committee for suppliers so we understand what you are putting on the table your. You said unidentified created in the indy aa a. Something mentioned here, you mentioned specifically you named boeing contractors being engaged, i was wondering if you could speak about the interaction between defense contractor and related programs or activities. The information about the contract himself provided eyewitness. Certainly contractors during performance. Today engage in any reporting . When it comes to notification you mentioned on these programs, we have seen defense contractors use their contract before and i have seen it personally and i have seen the notification before. I am wondering, one loophole you see is depending on what we are seeing is there are no requirements. What methods of notification new say they notify congress, do you have insight into that . Start for certain activities, sometimes they go through certain programs that have cognizant in authority there congressional reported but internal to the Contractors School as long as its money, profit, private investment, they can do what they want. When there is requirement for any agency or company to notify congress, to give him on this phone specifically and an email box . A lot of it is the review process are controlled access maker to the committees. My time is limited, i apologize. One of your main concerns the faa does not have in the process to receive for others and in your experience, what should be prioritized . Are there other specific characteristics should be included . There are two categories that would be important, one would be understanding objects moving and it would be an approach to origin and destination before the incident get an understanding on how they interact with each other. Because i only have a minute left, or the record, if you were me, where would you look . Titles, program, department, region . If you could just name anything. I would be happy to give that to you in a closed environment, specifically. Ive told people you have to know where to look because of classification. Is an operator we do the homework. Thank you, i yield back. I think the witnesses for being here. Thank you for being here. I want to get into specifics in the reason im going to go this way, you talked about what i call misdirection by official u. S. Government with regard to uap so ill keep that in the second to last week john kirby stated as an impact needs to be treated as a legitimate issue. Yes. Yes. Having said that, only to take you through the valley where i live. In 97 we have the famous phoenix lights case, i dont know if any of you are familiar with that. There were two things that went along with the and the explanation was military Training Range and the gary goldwater range. Do you know anything different other than the official explanation . I was outside the scope of my communities. If we want to find out more, where to find files and who do we address . I could potentially i am familiar in terms of public but ill give it to enclosed environment. If it is true they have an impact in this administration continues, what steps can Congress Take . I say that having two large Training Ranges them as the. Initial procedures have been implemented with the u. S. Navy have a report that has information. I understand the mechanism is still pending. That would be the next step. Showing the topic and reducing the stigma. As a recipient of those reports, sometimes we get this reporting, would be nice they attached data in a system in place to handle multiple classifications of data and it was never built to be on this platform and its a pain in the butt. I would agree with the previous two, the data has to be out there and have to acknowledge the data. No one collects the data. Do you believe the classification interferes with the ability to be transparent with the American People and you think need to be more transparent with the American People . Ill say yes to the. Im familiar with the task force 2019 classification guide. I think its fair. Youve got a bias. Yes but lazy attitude about declassified videos. Ive seen videos and i saw no reason it couldnt be released. The American People deserve to see. In my opinion, things are over classified. I know pictures that came up in the 2020 report taking away an iphone and they were originally classified, they are over classified and they dont evolve and then you have to look. That may be one way, is there another way they are keeping this on the American People or congress . I think part of the is not encouraging reporting. It is not something that can be fixed. Amount of time and i think you. First of all, without objection, for purpose of the subcommittee hearing. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Appreciate you coming today. Ive been here six months and im skeptical, i dont trust anything in this town so i think its because im from missouri, youve got to show me. With that said, theres a lot being said in the public so i want to get down to some specifics. At one time you said theres harmful or progressive activity, has any of the activity been aggressive and hostile in your reports . I know of multiple colleagues in the activity by uap or people and then the government . There is activity by nonhuman activity cause harm to humans . I cant get into specifics but i believe activity i personally witnessed myself and my wife is very disturbing. Like constituents said this next question and i figured id ask. You said u. S. Has intact, the government has alien bodies are species. Have you seen the spacecraft . I have to be careful to describe what ive seen but i could answer behind closed doors. Have you seen the body . Thats something ive not witnessed myself. With that said, other and said is intriguing because my view has been we are billions of lightyears away from another system. The concept that an alien species traveling billions of lightyears is here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive first percussionist is something i find a bit farfetched. You mentioned this interdimensional potential, could you expound on that . I will give theoretical framework regardless of your level, planes crash, cars crash and a small percentage will end in failure we say in the air force and in terms of multi dimension, the framework unfamiliar with his holographic principle, it drives itself from activity. You want to imagine 3d objects such as yourself casting a shadow onto a to d service and it could be from lower dimensional and it could cross but there probably guys with phds we can argue about. Where you have not seen any documentation. Only theoretical. Aircraft identified by domestic military contractors, plus being recovered plus recovery rebate these programs so would it be safe to say there could be scenarios where you have an aircraft crashes because its involved with the agency that retrieves it it appears alien in origin . Its a hypothetical situation, im not aware of any situation that would match that so it has not happened but you are aware of . Thank you, i yield back in the next several months ago disclosure from the air force base had an incident in his Briefing Regarding the episode. We asked to see any evidence and observe any signature as well as we with the flight crew. We are not afforded access to the crew. Initially we were not afforded access and radar. We had a discussion on the United States of america and we did see the image and meet with one member of the flight crew and the image was something im not able to attach to any human capability either the United States or adversaries and im someone whos served in the Armed Services committee nears and oversees for several years. We spoke with the group and when they showed us the federal but i asked why wasnt video engaged or a system that worked and heres what he said. They were on a test mission over the gulf of mexico and when you are on test mission, were supposed to have clear airspace and anything special and for craft and clear formation for which there is a radar sequence that i have observed. One pilot goes to check it out and sees a large floating when i described as an orb, any human capability i am aware of. He said radar went down in his system malfunctioned and had to manually take this image from the lens and was automated as you typically see in a mission. How should we think about the fact that this craft approached have the capability of the sensor and allah . This is the National Security side and things showing up in certain areas which is disheartening and it disabled the radar and you could see it as possibly so it is a concern not only how to operate and decide to do things like this. How should we think about moving in clear formation and keep her distance from one another in a diamond . Have we ever seen multiple craft in a single formation . Hours the recording of the system a shows an object that rotates and they refer to a fleet of objects on the system and that was part of the radar data and i would like to add, theres still facing that and they dont have the tools to mitigate. It shows why this is an important issue. This is explicit, if you have this experience, the best thing you can do is forget it and not tell anyone. Any reporting does have perceived consequence and has changed the if we were to get to the truth. I observed as we move forward, there are obvious next steps. Every person watching knows we need to meet in a secure facility to get wholesome answers and give information we need. Second, radar images collected and specifically the image taken by the actual crew we could validate so we track how to get this recording done in a more wholesome way. Thank you, mr. Chairman and good morning to our witnesses for testifying. I want to thank each of you discussing our National Security. Earlier this year shots on off the coast of South Carolina in 1947 Many Americans have wondered about the dangers of unknown objects is crossing her skies whether these are uap or advanced technology. I have several questions so if you can see, ill ask you to view the question in the first one you reported your experience, did you face any repercussions . No. Ive never seen anything personally. Do you believe is Misinformation Campaign to deny the existence of uap . Honor have an answer. As previously stated earlier, yes. Currently i dont speak for the government. Thank you. What percentage goes unreported . Based on personal experience but i would estimate near 5 . 95 basically dont report. Thats my personal estimate. A few questions, as a naval aviator, have you ever seen an object that looked and moved like this . No. To move in a way that is like this of physics . Yes. Many reports tested by our own government but in your experience, does our government advanced Weapons Systems next to just without informing our pilots . No, we have test ranges for that. Do you feel is a good reason to have no access . Just sat summer in file where do you feel fair adequately investigating . I can only speak for my personal leadership and try to look at that report that came through. Do you believe officials and National Security apparatus unlawfully withhold information from congress and supported Oversight Authority . Certain elected leaders had more, im not sure they shared but i would not be surprised. You say the government is in possession of nonhuman spacecraft. Based on your conversations with experts, do you believe our government has been contact with extraterrestrials . Something i cant discuss. Okay, i can ask when you think this occurred. If you believe, do we have the bodies of the pilots of the craft . Biologics came with these recoveries, yes. With a human or nonhuman . Nonhuman that was the program talked to on the program. Is this video, photos, eyewitness . That had to talk about that. You may or may not be able to answer but who in the government what agency was of agency, who should be called into the next hearing in a public or private setting, who do we need to call to get questions answered . I can give specific witness list of individuals. How soon can we get that list . Craft of this hearing. Thank you. Thank you. Id like to thank the witnesses for being here today to discuss this topic and i like to jumping if you dont mind. Can you describe your background . Hours and enlisted marine, maybe, flew for 18 years and never worked in the private sector for the last 16, 17 years and do defense work. Weve seen this video you engage with, could you briefly talk about are you off the coast of san diego that they . We were at work up so they were with the carrier and holding the only on our skills but there is never an aircraft flows airborne and this was the first day so we were the ones who were airborne and saw his. Tomorrow the weather that day, was a cloudy or windy or anything out of the ordinary . It was a perfect day, light winds, clear skies, not a cloud. It was the best. Is a true you saw a flying object . Correct. Did this come up on radar or interfere . The ep tract and we never saw, never picked up. They did get on the radar and targeting. From what you saw that day, did you see it including from your aircraft . No they were not coming out. Have you ever seen this . No. Can you describe how the aircraft did . Very determinate, he knew what was doing. The one from zero to high speed in no time at all. The fastest plane on earth trained to do the maneuvers he saw would be capable of to the. Not even close. And this object have knowing. Correct. Wasnt on . I never felt threatened at all. If the aircraft was armed, he believed they could have shot it down . Id say no, it would just have left. It looks like a problem that needs further investigation. Yes. In your believe, is a capable of being a product of the of the nation on the earth . Current material and the ability to develop that propulsion beyond anything we have. Either the u. S. Is an adversary in this world we dont know or have serious investigations. I appreciate you being here, is there anything else about the november 14 do you think is important for the committee to know . Is been said is the most incredible ufo sighting and to get a visual against naysayers. There are four sets of human eyeballs and those involved, everyone of us will to responsible positions and its not a joke. Thank you for all of you and i yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thank you for being here and the courage to come forward and the sacrifice you made. On the National Security financial Services Committee when we think about adversaries and others toward them and then towards us, we probe other capabilities and collect data in the event we needed in the future. For each of you, yes or no question, based on your own experience or data youve been privy to, is there any indication could they be . Fair assessment. The National Security, is it possible these would be probing our capabilities . Definitely. They testing for vulnerabilities in our Current System . Do you feel these you aps or an existential threat . In the event become hostile, would you have the ability to defend your aircraft . No. Is there any indication they are interested in Technology Capabilities . As. Sure, that could be a fair assessment. Is any indication department of energy is involved in Data Collection . Have an answer. No, i dont know. I think im the last number two, but clearly a threat to the National Security of the United States of america. We have the responsibility to maintain oversight and be aware of these activities so we take action. I would encourage the chairman to demand if x is denied, will personal volunteer to initiate any personnel or program or agency that denies access to congress. I yield the remainder of my time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Great questions. I might have asked this before, do you have personal knowledge of someone working on this . Yes. Power the injured . Is it like a radioactive type situation . Ive heard people talk about syndrome what was your recollection . I cant get into specifics but theres a lot of potentiality you can prepare for. Hardy think we ought to handle whistleblowers like this . Theres some issue with mine in the process. Theres not a good way or Inspector General to provide that to other committees and i asked information be sent to the house and Armed Service committee but no smooth process to do so. Are you aware of individuals participating for non terrestrial craft . Do you know anybody willing to testify . Certainly closed door. They are going to get administratively punished for. Going to do something out of the ordinary here, an additional three minutes if you want to keep going. Why dont you come back to me x is she on that list . I like to submit for the record an article that follows the full interview for the record. Without objection. Thank you. Why is it you refer to this as non human intelligence . I think the phenomena is very complex, i like to leave an open mind with his origin. Are you can you elaborate . Traditional extraterrestrial origin or Something Else we dont quite understand either biological or astro keep an open mind. Referring to the interview, you referenced between government and Nuclear Arms Treaty that specifically mentions the. Other Safety Measures in place to avoid events that the uap event occurs . You are referring to public treaty in the agreement on measures to reduce in 1971 publicly available in the George Washington university archives, you will find declassified in 2013 specific positions and redline Pacific Coast pursuant to article three and situation to in the previous a classified archive what i would say, silence of the white house with this specific incident this was used, i think scholarship would open the door to further investigation using publicly available information. My last question, you mentioned whitecollar crime taking place, can you elaborate . I have concern under official duties of potential violations. Thank you, i yield the remainder of my time. You have three minutes. Thank you. You described your episode is the most incredible sighting in u. S. History. Was this the first time you encountered a ufo . Yes. What was your general attitude or perspective before that . It never felt we were alone with the planets out there but i wasnt watching History Channel and all that. Have you had encounters since then . No. Have you formed any general conclusion . Yes, i think what we experienced was will be on capabilities we had at the time that we would have in the next ten or 20 years. You been able to answer in great detail things usa youre not able to respond to, can you explain where you draw the line . Based on security review, it is unclassified. You are answering any question on unclassified question that relates to classified matters, you are not commenting on this country. Id be happy to participate in closed session. You said there are dozens of military pilots. Arthur also commercial pilots who encountered the same kind of sightings described before . They are similar and they look over the airspace so pilots are typically closer and its pretty large. What is the most vivid siding the naked eye of the objects described . The most. Sightings at the entrance to a working area, one was completely stationary at the entrance not only geographically but it was right where the two aircraft with about 50 feet of the objects and that was a close siding. You are in the aircraft . I was not. He was ready with his mouth open and he said he almost hit one. You said he was 50 feet away . The description was consistent with the description uk before . Inside of clear sphere with no system. No wings or energy off the vehicle, nothing tethering into the ground and that was primarily what we were experiencing. Thank you for your service. This is for all three of your coming forward on this issue. I felt my colleagues did not have the safety threat. I felt like i had to help the folks. Purely sense of duty. I still pulled this. I was pestered by a friend and i asked why and he said youre the one person they cant discredit so after about six times i said okay. We thank you and want to thank the people in the audience and people watching around the world have kept us alive, you have criticism and derogatory remarks and we are trying to get to the bottom of this so as you all so much, we appreciate you all. [applause] thats why we need term limits, you will keep clapping when we keep on talking. The public contributes to reporting. I dont think there is a lot of public option to be able to report on this. For those who have seen this on a regular basis for the general public encouraging the conversation today for solutions distributed, data can be gathered. Ill touch on the whistleblower side. I encourage contractors to come forward in a legal way either through the icy or whatever ids are to join me in this discussion. I guess i should say this, United States marine corps. Yes, sir, he was old school. Im not anything like my daddy, he was incredible. Im very mediocre to say the least. You seem to be doing fine. For me, the biggest thing we learn is dont try to make the fish because it was. Speak the facts and dont speculate what you think it is, to strengthen the facts and get an honest story. Thank you e and i yield. Will have closing remarks. Want to thank all of you for being with us today. I know it takes a lot of courage and you are telling Important Information and thank you for your service to our country. I want to note the hearing was important but also serious and chairman for running a fair hearing. And all the members involved in this issue prior to the hearing. I want to note for witnesses in the public and ive only been here seven months but this is the most bipartisan conversation and discussion of seen and topic of the significance as a relates to information we are trying to gather, it does bring people together and we are doing great. Important to note today we had both fall number mr. Raskin and vice Ranking Member, it shows the importance and seriousness taking to this hearing and the broader issue working with our corner counterparts. Unseen can encourage, it is important we continue these discussions and hearings. Clearly there is a lot of information we dont know but it is also clear we continue investigation and accountability asking the right questions and ensuring they are part of the record. One thing important today is some might wonder why we are asking questions. It is important they are asked as it relates to this committee so thank you for answering questions multiple times not just meetings with members but also here in the public. To me is that, our friends in the media no their reporting not just on this hearing but the media has an Important Role in this and it is important the media engages and reports not just what happens today will when they see independently around uap in the Broader Community and also important Public Benefit as it relates to this. Let me say as a teacher and educator and researcher, i believe in following facts and doing your homework and making sure you follow science to get information so thank you for agreeing to the today. Transparency is a cornerstone of government. We live in a vast galaxy. Take you for being here today. I would like to one more time thank you for bringing this to our attention. This has interested me since ive been in school. I think several of us are going to look forward to getting answers. I assume legislation will come out of this. I apologize, i need to complement the folks in my office who did a lot of work on this. They are quiet and humble but i apologize. I think we are going to want to look into what to do to make this information public. There is certainly a timetable, people often concerned about these issues since i was in high school. Id like to think everybody here. Without objection, you have five legislative days to submit materials and additional questions for the witnesses which reported for their response and if theres no further business, the subcommittee stands adj in an audible conversations in an audible conversations. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2022] cspan is your unfiltered view of government. Were funded by these Television Companies and more, including charter communications. 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