Transcripts For CSPAN Washington This Week 20151024

The election of the canadian Prime Minister means, not only for that country, but our country as well. That is all tomorrow on the washington journal. See you then. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] the president obama and a form of Prescription Drug abuse. Mac, john mccain and thornberry talk about defense spending. At noon, we will show you the first part of secretary of state Hillary Clinton p appearance before the house benghazi committee. On wednesday, president obama was in charleston, West Virginia for the Panel Description out of discussion on Prescription Drug abuse. Included in the panel were Law Enforcement and health silvioment officials, burwell, and the director of National Drug control policy. This is just over one hour. President obama thank you, everybody. Everybody, please have a seat. Have a seat. Thank you so much. Well, hello, West Virginia [applause] it is great to be back in what is clearly one of the most beautiful states in the United States of america. One of these days, im going to finally try a tudors biscuit. [laughter] i want to begin by thanking jordan for sharing his extraordinary story with us. Jordan is living proof that, when it comes to Substance Abuse, treatment and recovery, those things are possible if we Work Together and if we care about each other. And thats what were here to talk about today. Weve got some outstanding leaders who care deeply about this issue. I want to thank your governor, earl ray tomblin, for being here. [applause] your two fine senators joe manchin and Shelley Moore capito. [applause] and charleston mayor danny jones. [applause] weve also got some outstanding members of my administration who are here first and foremost, our proud daughter of West Virginia, hhs secretary sylvia burwell. [applause] we have the director of National Drug control policy, michael botticelli. [applause] and we have the head of the Drug Enforcement administration, chuck rosenberg. [applause] wheres chuck . Hes around here somewhere. And what i want to do is to have a conversation with the panelists here today, take some questions because this is something that is not a topdown solution type of problem alone. This is going to have to be everybody working together. And weve got to understand what families are going through, what Law Enforcement is going through, what our Health Systems are going through in order for us to wrap our arms around this problem. So instead of giving a long speech, i just want to offer some initial thoughts to frame our discussion. When i came into office, i started studying this issue whats called opioids. And i was stunned by the statistics. More americans now die every year from drug overdoses than they do from Motor Vehicle crashes. More than they do from car accidents. The majority of those overdoses involve legal Prescription Drugs. In 2013 alone, overdoses from prescription pain medications killed more than 16,000 americans. One year. I dont have to tell you, this is a terrible toll. The numbers are big, but behind those numbers are incredible pain for families. And West Virginia understands this better than anybody because this state is home to the highest rate of Overdose Deaths in the nation. Now, addiction is not new. But since 1999, sales of powerful prescription pain medications have skyrocketed by 300 percent. In 2012, 259 million prescriptions were written for these drugs, which is more than enough to give every american adult their own bottle of pills. And as their use has increased, so has the misuse. Some folks are prescribed these medications for good reason but they become addicted because theyre so powerful. At the same time, weve seen a dramatic rise in the use of heroin, which belongs to the same class of drugs as painkillers this class of drugs known as opioids. In fact, four in five heroin users new heroin users started out by misusing Prescription Drugs; then they switched to heroin. So this really is a gateway drug that Prescription Drugs become a gateway to heroin. As a consequence, between 2002 and 2013, the number of heroinrelated deaths in america nearly quadrupled, although the number of heroinrelated overdoses is still far exceeded by the number of legal Prescription Drug overdoses. So this crisis is taking lives. Its destroying families. Its shattering communities all across the country. And thats the thing about Substance Abuse it doesnt discriminate. It touches everybody from celebrities to college students, to soccer moms, to inner city kids. White, black, hispanic, young, old, rich, poor, urban, suburban, men and women. It can happen to a coal miner; it can happen to a construction worker; a cop who is taking a painkiller for a workrelated injury. It could happen to the doctor who writes him the prescription. Now, one of the problems we have is too many families suffer in silence, feeling like they were the only ones struggling to help a loved one. And lets face it, theres still fear and shame and stigma that too often surrounds Substance Abuse and often prevents people from seeking the help that they deserve. Because when people loosely throw around words like junkie, nobody wants to be labeled in that way. And part of our goal here i think today is to replace those words with words like father, or daughter, or son, or friend, or sister. Because then you understand there is a Human Element behind this. This could happen to any of us in any of our families. What if we replaced a word like junkie with recovery coaches and specialists like jordan . We cant fight this epidemic without eliminating stigma. Thats one of the reasons why im so proud of michael, whos the first person in the job of dealing with drugs in america who actually knows what its like to recover from an addiction. He shares his own story as a way to encourage others to get the help that they need before its too late. And im proud that theres some elected officials in this state whove told their stories about what happened in their family and to themselves in order for us to start lowering those attitudes that keep people from getting help. So ive made this a priority for my administration. And were not new to this. In 2010, we released our first National Drug control strategy. We followed that up in 2011 with a Prescription Drug abuse prevention plan. Were implementing those plans. Were partnering with communities to prevent drug use, reduce Overdose Deaths, help people get treatment. And under the Affordable Care act, more health plans have to cover Substance Abuse disorders. The budget that i sent congress would invest in things like state Overdose Prevention programs, preparing more First Responders to save more lives, and expanding medication assisted treatment programs. So we have to make those investments. Rather than spending billions of dollars taxpayer dollars on long prison sentences for nonviolent drug offenders, we could save money and get Better Outcomes by getting treatment to those who need it. [applause] and we could use some of the savings to make sure that Law Enforcement has the resources to go after the hardened criminals who are bringing hard drugs like heroin into our country. So with no other disease do we expect people to wait until theyre a danger to themselves or others to selfdiagnose and seek treatment. Every other disease you got a broken leg, you got diabetes, you got some sort of sickness, we understand that we got to get you help. And we also understand when it comes to other diseases that if we dont give you help, and let you suffer by yourself, then other people could get sick. Well, this is an illness. And we got to treat it, as such. We have to change our mindset. [applause] and this is one of the reasons that the dea declared a national Prescription Drug takeback day a day when americans can safely and conveniently dispose of expired and unwanted Prescription Drugs in their communities. Because most young people who begin misusing Prescription Drugs dont buy them in some dark alley they get them from mom or dads medicine cabinet. And today, were also announcing some new actions. First, were ensuring that federal agencies train federal Health Care Providers who prescribe opioids. This is a commonsense idea that youre already implementing here in West Virginia. Congress should follow that lead and make this a national priority. And we look forward to working with governors and the medical community as well. Second and we were talking joe and i were talking on the flight over here there is evidence that shows that medication assisted treatment, if done properly, in combination with behavioral therapy and other support and counseling and 12step programs and things like that, can work. It can be an effective strategy to support recovery. But it cant just be replacing one drug with another. Its got to be part of a package. So were going to identify any barriers that still exist that are keeping us from creating more of these treatment facilities, and incorporating them into our federal programs. Private sector partners are helping out to help fight this epidemic, as well. And i want to give them some credit. More than 40 medical groups, from the American Medical Association to the American Dental Association are committing to concrete actions. And we need to, obviously, work with the medical community because theyre the front lines on prescribing this stuff and so theres got to be a sense of responsibility and ownership and accountability there. Weve got to expand prescriber training. Increasing the use of naloxone i wanted to make sure i was pronouncing that right, so i talked to the expert naloxone this is something that if First Responders have it can often save quickly the lives of somebody who is having an overdose. So we want to make sure that First Responders have a supply of this. We want to make sure that were getting more physicians certified to provide medication assisted treatment. We then have broadcasters like cbs that are providing airtime for education and awareness. And groups like the nba have committed to running Public Service announcements about drug abuse. So thats just an example of some of the private sector here. The point is and im going to end with this weve all got a role to play. Because young people like jordan, they remind us these are our kids. Its not somebody elses kids; its our kids. Its not somebody elses neighborhood; its our neighborhood. And they deserve every chance. Weve got to make sure that were doing right by them, were taking this seriously. And the goal today is to shine a spotlight on this, and then make sure that we walk away out of here, all of us committed to doing something about it. Whether we are a faith leader, whether we are an elected official, whether were in Law Enforcement, whether were a private citizen, a business, weve all got a role to play. You understand that here in West Virginia, and we want to make sure the whole country understands how urgent this problem is. So with that, im going to turn it over to our moderator, michael botticelli. [applause] mr. Botticelli well, good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for being here today. I, too, want to thank jordan for his really stirring comments. I think it really exemplifies for us the challenges that we have, but also the success and hope that comes with recovery. Its really astounding. Were here in West Virginia today to highlight the issue not just because of the impact that its had on West Virginia, but the impact that its had across the country. But also, West Virginia is working together to implement strategies to really deal with this addiction, and were proud to be here to help support that. The president always gives me a lot of credit for talking openly and honestly about my recovery, but, candidly, im one of millions of americans who are in recovery today and my story is not unique. Maybe this part is a little bit unique, sir. [laughter] but im one of millions of americans who have been restored by getting good care and treatment. And i know the president wants what jordan and i got, and that is a Second Chance to be restored to productive members of our communities and to give back what weve so freely been given. So, thank you, sir. So with that today, we have a great panel of people who are really going to help provide us with information and their insights about what more we can do on the federal level. Im really proud to be a colleague of secretary silvia burwell. And, secretary, im going to start you can feel free to say anything you would like, however. I know were here in your home state of West Virginia. I know we have talked you have been personally impacted by this. But youve also made this a key priority for all of your hhs agencies. So may you could talk a little bit about your experience and what hhs is doing to deal with this issue. Ms. Burwell absolutely. And first, ill just say i love coming home. Its great to be home. And its great to welcome the president to the great state of West Virginia. And when i became secretary, this was a priority because it is something that i have personally experienced. Everybody, im sure, in this room knows people personally friends that lost to the addiction and what happens in terms of their children, in terms of their family, in terms of the community. And what your experience is, personally, i think that is what energizes you to act. And at the department, what we focused on over the last year, figuring out an evidencebased strategy because we want to get results, we want to change the kinds of things that people have experienced personally and three things. Number one is changing prescribing practices. When the president said the 259 million that cant be right. And so how do we work on that. Second is working on medication assisted treatment, getting people the access weve talked about today being so important to people. And third is that access to naloxone. And i look at our colleagues in Law Enforcement because theyre usually the front line and making sure that when something does go wrong, in terms of that overdose, that we can prevent those deaths, those deaths that are so dramatically impacting the state. So those are the three things. Im going to stop because were here to listen today. Thank you, michael. Mr. Botticelli cary dixon, youre a mom of a son who is struggling with in treatment now, unfortunately in prison. But youve turned your struggles into advocacy and action, and you provide support for many, many parents here and around the country for loved ones who are dealing with this. So what has your experience been . What advice do you give parents . What advice do you give us as federal folks about how we can support parents in this battle . Ms. Dixon well, i think initially i want to thank president obama for coming here today to support this cause for our community that has Substance Abuse, its become an epidemic in our community. And i thank you for coming today, first and foremost. And i want to share just briefly ive been charged with being a representative for families around our area and actually around the nation who struggle with this. So if i could just share some comments that we families have in common. President obama you take your time. We want to hear from you. Ms. Dixon thank you. I spoke this morning to a good friend of mine who was just calling me to wish me well today and to encourage me in this endeavor. And this friend of mine lost her daughter two and a half years ago to drugs. And so i dont take this charge of being here lightly. I realize that im here to represent families, and i am grateful for that opportunity. I do want to say that as im speaking to you im sharing my story, but im sharing the stories of so many other Family Members that are in this community and in the nation that have this issue. And also its important to know for the sake of time, ive really tried to make this concise, but this is the tip of the iceberg of what families experience and endure when they love someone and care so much about someone with an addiction. We raise our children in loving homes. We teach them morals and values. We teach them the difference between right and wrong. We wonder what is happening when the grade starts slipping, when things that used to be enjoyable for our loved ones no longer interest them. Were confused as to the cause of the personality changes that we see in our loved ones. Were shocked when we hear of that first dui. And were fearful when our loved ones are taken to jail for the first time. Were embarrassed when holidays approach and Family Members are coming in from out of town, and our loved ones cant interact because theyre under the influence of drugs. We dread the next phone call. We cant sleep because we havent received a phone call. We dont take vacations for fear of the next crisis. We come back from vacations because theres a crisis. Were sad and angry when valuable, but most importantly, sentimental items are missing from our homes, only to find out that theyre at a pawn shop, or that theyre in the hands of drug dealers. Were relieved when our loved ones acknowledge that they have a serious problem and understand that they need help. And then were devastated when we help them seek treatment only to find out that there is a monthlong waiting list, or that theres no Insurance Coverage, or that theres a big requirement for money up front for treatment. We are sad and uncomfortable when acquaintances ask us about our loved ones. And were even more sad when they ask us about every other member of our family and dont mention our loved ones. We neglect our marriages. We neglect other children in our home who are thriving because all of our attention is focused on addiction and Substance Abuse. We disagree endlessly about the right way to handle this problem. And after experiencing years of turmoil, we rest better at night when our loved ones are incarcerated, because the place that you never dreamed that your loved one would ever even see, a jail or a prison, is safer than them being on the street, interacting with drug dealers, or pushing a needle into their arm. The ones of us who are fortunate, we lay awake at night and we plan our loved ones funerals in our mind. The ones of us who arent fortunate actually do plan the funerals, in reality, of our loved ones. And this is where addiction has taken us. This is where Substance Abuse has taken us. Now, all that being said, there is hope. And thats probably the most important thing to remember here. Were so grateful to recovery point and matt ball and people in recovery that are helping others. Were grateful to our mayor, the mayor of huntington, steve williams, who has so tirelessly and endlessly spearheaded programs to help our community recover. Don purdue who has made it possible for people to receive treatment in our communities. I think education is important. And i was fortunate to find a group called the loved ones group, developed by a man named ed hughes. Its a series that helps provide education and information and support for Family Members or those who care about someone with an addiction. The final week of this program we get to speak to people in recovery. They come and speak to our group of people there. And it inspires us because we know that recovery is possible and that it can happen. For too long, weve been silent. And i think is going to answer your question as parents and Family Members, because of the stigma of this disease and the shame that we feel, weve been silent. And i think that is holding us back. We need to open our voices so that people dont feel ashamed. This is a disease. It is a sickness. But education, educating ourselves as much as we can as Family Members, and speaking out to raise awareness is, i think, critical in helping the situation. Im almost finished. People in 12step recovery groups and different groups rely on a higher power. Im a person of faith, and my faith has helped me navigate this journey that weve been on. And i just want to share with you a verse that i hold dear for my own Family Member who is sick, but also offer it to others. Jeremiah 29 11 for i know the plans i have for you, declares the lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. And i believe that every person in the throes of addiction and the disease of Substance Abuse needs hope in a future. And i believe this for their families as well. Thank you so much. [applause] mr. Botticelli cary, thank you so much for sharing your story. It obviously touched everybody here in terms of not only your struggles, but articulating the hope thats on the other side. And we will continue to work with parents as we deal together with this epidemic. I go to dr. Michael brumage. You have been involved in this work for many years. Youre here at the local level, so love to hear your experience and share what you think are both some successes and challenges in dealing with this issue. Dr. Brumage certainly. And thank you very much. Welcome to West Virginia, mr. President and mr. Botticelli. Welcome home, secretary burwell. Ive been on the job actually only 79 days here in charleston. I came back home after being 29 years away. And i knew what i was coming into when i came home. I knew there was a heroin and opioid abuse epidemic in the state. I knew we had the highest rates of hepatitis b and the second highest rates of hepatitis c in the nation, largely due to needle sharing among addicts. But i also knew that coming home that mountaineers would take this kind of challenge head on. Thats the kind of people that there are in the state of West Virginia. And so i wanted to be part of the solution here in the state. And i knew it would require patience, persistence, and people lots of good people here. With the help of so Many Community partners, and my good friend and colleague over at cabellhuntington Health Department, dr. Mike kilkenney, weve been able to get some programs off the ground, working together. And i think were moving in the right direction. In about six weeks, were going to begin our own Harm Reduction program here in charleston. Were going to have Syringe Exchange as part of that. Well be testing for hepatitis b, hepatitis c, hiv. We dont want to become another scott county, indiana, where they had an outbreak of hiv almost 200 cases in a small Rural Community there. Wed also like to offer contraceptive services to women of the reproductive age who are addicted to drugs to prevent neonatal abstinence syndrome as well. [applause] and more than anything else, what i think wed like to do is to treat the people who come through our doors for this program with dignity and respect and the kind of love that they deserve, because the ultimate disease underlying every addiction, from my perspective, is disconnection and alienation from themselves and from everybody else around them. Two weekends ago, i began working with West Virginia University Researchers on a program of mindfulnessbased relapse prevention with opioid addicts in recovery. This is based off of the pioneering work done at the university of washington. And one of the more pleasant surprises that ive seen since ive been here on the job is the close connection between Public Health and Public Safety. Our Law Enforcement community has just been outstanding and weve been really privileged to work with them. Finally, i was able to also sit together with delegate, dr. Chris stansbury from Kanawha County to sponsor legislation hes going to sponsor legislation to make naloxone an overthecounter medication, the way it is in 14 other states. [applause] and then, as youve said, mr. President , this is a multifaceted issue. It requires a lot of different people to come together to fix this. Its not a quick fix; it requires a collaborative, multiagency approach with Public Health, mental health, primary care, schools and school nurses, Law Enforcement. Our own judiciary community. And finally, id be remiss if i left out our business and industry, because jobs provide not only an income, they provide a sense of purpose and meaning in the lives of people. And so im hoping that by the end of your visit today, mr. President , that youll be impressed with some of the things that are going on and how much West Virginians are really digging in to try to address this issue. Thank you. [applause] mr. Botticelli thank you, doctor. Chief webster, dr. Brumage gave you the perfect leadin and segue to talk about the importance of Public Health and Public Safety collaboration. So love to hear your thoughts and what youre doing here. Mr. Webster sure. First of all, id like to, again, thank the president of the United States for making this a focus, coming to charleston, West Virginia, and also providing me an opportunity to represent charleston and all Law Enforcement, effectively. I think this is where most people probably look at the person in uniform and they probably say, okay, this is the guy who is now going to tell us we need to build more jails and make tougher laws. And thats not me. This is such an epidemic and we cannot arrest our way out of this mess. [applause] and i think the president touched on it briefly. What the president said earlier is true, because we want to arrest the violent drug dealers that are creating havoc in our communities. We have our share of violent crime. And we are very fortunate our drug task force, we have a Great Partnership with they fund so many of our efforts. So, on a daily basis, the bad guy get arrested. We made a significant seizure yesterday. So we feel in Law Enforcement, as im sure our counterparts do, we really attack the supply side of this issue very well. And so were not going to back down from that and were going to keep trying to remove people that are dangerous from society. But whats nice about this, and what i want to talk about, though, is attacking as a strategy the demand side. And thats what i think is very nice about this panel and this gathering, because weve got a lot of things we can really talk about. We basically have a community of zombies, for lack of a better word, Walking Around. They need treatment very badly. And theyre coming up to our officers they actually are some dont want help yet, but at some point they do want help. And we want to get them help. And a couple of the strategies that weve worked on that we want to attack the demand side, not so much the supply in this conversation, is that we have trained our officers in naloxone. And thats been traditionally, up until very recently, just something that our Fire Department and they do more of the they can do the nasal and the iv. We trained all of our officers, regardless of their assignment, to be able to save somebodys life administer the nasal and the rescue breathing mask thats accompanied. And again, thats paid for with appalachian and such Great Partnership. They recognize that its supply and demand. Interestingly, though, when i went to the roll call to Start Talking about this to the officers, first, theyre kind of like, that might be more of a Fire Department role. That might be more but as we talked more and i went down the line and said, well, has anybody have anybody affected by an addiction, and ive yet to go to one roll call ive been to numerous, but ive yet to one where someone said no. Someone has said, yes, my sister, my aunt. And weve just got them mounted to our cars in the last week, so we dont have any Success Stories and we dont want to have any stories, really, unless theyre we want them all to be positive. But we know the Fire Department will continue to administer most of them in our camp. But we want to be in a position to save a life much like a child drowning and we can administer cpr. Another thing that were doing that were real proud of and its working with the United States attorney, which is the lead program, the Law Enforcement assisted diversion program. And basically, since 2014, weve had 39 id call them lowlevel users that were selling drugs to support their habits. And basically theyre hit with a stark decision right at the arrest gate you have an opportunity to go to jail, or you can seek immediate treatment. And of the 39 people that have taken us up on that, since 2014, just one has been rearrested. [applause] i think thats pretty impressive. And thats a partnership with the u. S. Attorneys office and something that our officers are coming around to understanding what kind of problem we have. And i would just say, finally, because we do support everything dr. Brumage and the Kanawha County Health Department is doing with his Harm Reduction plan, and how we factor into that with the Needle Exchange program finally, we have a handle with care program that we piloted in 2013 in one school on the west side, then a second school, and now we do it for the whole city. I see some smiles in the crowd because there are teachers in here. But what we realized had been lost is when Police Officers go to crime scenes, what are they there for . Theyre there to take witness statements. Theyre there to arrest the socalled bad guy. And then they leave. But who is looking out for the children, the Collateral Damage . Whos looking out for the child that maybe is just trying to do his homework, mom and dad are fighting. We come in, arrest dad. Mom cries. Shes got to go to the hospital. And so that child gets left behind many, many times. And so we started a notification system to where the next day, our officers that are on the scene will send a notification to the principal or to the counselor basically to say, handle that child with care today. Maybe that child needs an extra day those are ways that we realize that were not going to arrest our way out of this. We have our place and we can always use additional Law Enforcement resources. Im not going to lie to you. [laughter] but were all in this together and its affecting all of us. [applause] mr. Botticelli thank you, chief. I think thats an extraordinary example of your willingness and your partnership. Im now going to turn to Susan Shumate from the charleston gazette, who i believe is going to ask questions of the panel that come from the community. Ms. Shumate thank you for coming to West Virginia, mr. President , secretary burwell and secretary botticelli and the rest of the panel to address the chronic issue of opioid addiction. The charleston gazette now has done numerous stories over lots of years about this issue facing West Virginia, and we were able to solicit hundreds of questions from our readers over the last five days for the president and the panel. And with us here is david and kate grubb with their question for the president. First of all, mom cary there isnt a parent here who had a dry eye when you spoke. From your heart, you expressed exactly what we feel. And danny knows this, too. Mr. President , i want to say that it is and im going to take this opportunity it is wonderful to have an intelligent, caring, thoughtful person in your position. [applause] president obama thank you. Thank you so much for coming. This issue my wife and i, we have five daughters. Mr. President , you might relate a little bit to that. President obama i can relate to that. laughter. i dont know how you did five. [laughter] two keeps me busy. And we live here in the east end. My second oldest daughter, jessica, has been battling heroin addiction for seven years. Ironically, the last time we were in this room was when our daughter was in the 8th grade here at roosevelt and was a cheerleader. She made good grades. She was socially involved. Her future was bright. But as jordan mentioned, her life got put on hold for a long time. Last month, the middle of august, our daughter overdosed. We found her in her bedroom, tourniquet on her arm, syringe next to her. She was already turning blue. My wife administered cpr. We called 911. While we were waiting i held her and said, dont leave us yet. Fortunately i want to say this to the chief the response was amazing. Less than five minutes, the emts and the Police Officers were there. The Police Officers were sympathetic. They were helpful. The emts administering narcan, coupled with the cpr, saved our daughters life. And shes now in recovery. [applause] this is her fourth time. It usually takes more than one time. And we think this one will be the one. We are full of hope. But we understand the pain the pain in this room, the pain the families feel. The concern we have is access where do you get the treatment . How do you get the treatment . And, cary, you mentioned it. As soon as this overdose happened, we called hotlines and we got numbers to call and we called those numbers, and they said, well, theres a threemonth wait or, well, we dont take medicaid cards or, this wasnt really the facility that could handle your type of problem. The other problem with medicaid cards and things of that nature is you cant always go out of state. What if the facility is across the river . Were a border state we need to be able to have that ability to go to the facility that may be best for our children. The bottom line is we need resources and we need to find a way to put those resources into effect so that we have the facilities. Because theres so many people that want help, like our daughter, but it took forever to find a place for her. Right now shes in michigan. That was the best we could do. Why cant we have lots of these types of facilities with trained staff here in West Virginia, close to home . [applause] and lastly, i want to say one of the best provisions of the Affordable Care act is that it does require coverage for drug treatment. And thank you for that. [applause] but one of the concerns is that if there arent facilities available, then the treatment coverage can be illusory. So we have to close that gap. And i think the Biggest Issue there is are you concerned, as sometimes we get concerned given the current Political Climate that the Affordable Care act will be weakened or repealed either before the end of your term or in the next term . What are your feelings about our commitment to that program and to the drug rehabilitation part of that program . [applause] president obama well, first of all, as with cary, i just want to thank you and your wife for sharing your story. And youre right, if you are a parent, then listening to cary or listening to you, you can relate. I told somebody one of my favorite sayings i ever heard about having children is its like having your heart Walking Around outside your body. All you care about is making sure theyre okay. But theyre so vulnerable. And youre just, as a parent always navigating, just trying to figure out how do i make sure theyre going to be okay. And when Something Like this happens and i think its something that you sharing your story, cary, and your sharing your story, sir, really emphasizes this is happening in families everywhere with great parents who love their kids. Obviously there are a lot of kids who are in less stable homes and are more vulnerable. But the way this kind of phenomenon is penetrating all communities means that we have to understand that there is no us and they here. There is no us and them. This is all of us in every school, in every community, in every neighborhood. And it could be your child. So i think the first thing to do and this conversation has been so helpful is to understand that this is an american problem that cuts across groups and political affiliations. Because once we understand that, then i think were in a position to deal with it together as opposed to turning it into another political football. Thats point number one. One of my goals when i came into office was for us to restore a sense of balance when it came to dealing with drugs. And this was true for illegal drugs, but it was true for legal but overprescribed drugs. For a long time our goal has been to deal with the supply side. And as the chief said, were very aggressive. I promise you, theres no backing off us trying to make sure that some mexican Heroin Cartel is not getting heroin into West Virginia or anyplace else in this country. And weve got a lot of terrific agents and border patrols and officials. We have ramped up aggressively, under my administration and under previous administrations, interdiction efforts. So we dont stop that, and we dont make apologies for that. And if there is somebody who is out there systematically making millions or hundreds of millions of dollars off the destruction of our kids, were going to go after them. [applause] we dont apologize for that. But we were underinvesting and even with the changes weve made continue to underinvest in the demand side, in the prevention and the treatment that is so necessary. And and this is a real opportunity. Its an important moment for us because if we can start thinking intelligently about treatment on the opioids and Prescription Drug side, then people start making the connection, well, we should have treatment when it comes to heroin and then maybe they start thinking, well, we should have treatment when it comes to other narcotics and drugs that are affecting and devastating families potentially in different ways. But for a long time i think treatment was seen as a secondclass citizen to interdiction and arrest and incarceration. And that mindset needs to change. The good news is were seeing that mindset changing, and it is on a bipartisan basis which i think is really interesting. To go back because i want to make sure that people understand were putting an end to the old politics on this. Democrats and republicans were both responsible for wanting to look tough on the war on drugs and ramping up incarceration. It wasnt just one side or another. And now both at the same time are realizing, you know what, what are we doing here . Why is it that were willing to invest 20,000 a year in incarcerating a young person when we might have spent a few thousand dollars on the front end to avoid them going to prison in the first place . And that mindset means that resources hopefully will start channeling in a new direction. But weve got to make sure that the money is following the insight. I think were at the stage now where people are starting to realize that we need more treatment. But the budgets are not yet reflective of that awareness. And thats going to require congress. So in our budget, for example, were proposing an additional 133 million for enhanced treatment and prevention programs. But its also going to involve states, state legislatures, counties, local governments, all also recognizing this is something that every community needs. And we cant be stigmatizing this. Having a Treatment Facility is just like having a Health Clinic for any other illness because its affecting people just as much. And we know how to do this when we do it smartly. Think about smoking and i can say this as an exsmoker who still chews on nicorette which is okay, its expensive, but i can afford it. [laughter] better not starting, though, young people. [laughter] if you look at how drastically weve been able to reduce the smoking rates, despite the fact that we never outlawed smoking but what we did was we just enhanced education, made it more difficult for kids to access it, stopped peddling it, stopped advertising it, took some of the money out of it. And over time, a Public Health model had a drastic impact on smoking. And nicorette is or nicotine is as addictive as any of the drugs were talking about. So if we could do on that with the Public Health model, theres no reason we cant do it here, as well. But it does require a change in mindset. And as you pointed out, it requires additional money. Last point ill make on the insurance side. You are absolutely right that Insurance Coverage is not enough if there is no Treatment Center for you to apply that insurance. So were going to have to build and fund and support more Treatment Centers locally. [applause] on the other hand, if there is a Treatment Center and you dont have any insurance, then you might have to mortgage your house. And i am very proud of the fact that the Affordable Care act also known as obamacare [applause] which i i mean i wont get on a soapbox here, but theres 17 Million People who have Health Insurance who didnt have it. And by the way, our overall costs for health care have been going up at the slowest rate in my lifetime after we passed the law. So its not bankrupting the government, not bankrupting states. [applause] but one of the things that it does is it requires that Insurance Private insurance thats sold on the marketplaces that are subsidized by the federal government have to provide coverage for Substance Abuse programs. And given the prevalence of whats happening to our children and our schools, the notion that we would not have our insurance policies cover this theyre going to cover a broken leg, but theyre not going to cover a situation where your child might die . That doesnt make any sense. And so i think that were trying to nudge that along through the marketplaces. But i think one of the things that we need to do is to have consumer groups and our medical associations and others really push a little bit more on the Insurance Companies to say that this is something that is vital, and that everybody should have coverage. Because you dont know if its going to be your child. And thats the most important point here. Cary, is carrying a particular burden. And i was most touched when cary talked about her other children. But i thought about malia and sasha. Theyre wonderful girls, but theyre teenagers. They do some things. [laughter] and i remember me being a teenager and ive written about this, i did some stuff. [laughter] and ive been very honest about it. So what i think about is there but for the grace of god, and thats what we all have to remember. And when we do, then i think weve got a chance to make a real change. But thank you for sharing your story. [applause] ms. Shumat this was from natalie laliberty, who is a principal at ruthlawn elementary school. And she says, as the principal of an elementary school, i see the harm being done to kids who are born addicted or live in traumatic and chaotic drug environment. Many of the kids have any number of learning and behavioral problems upon entering preschool and kindergarten. How can the community at large and schools Work Together to intervene in these childrens lives during their early years when brain growth stimuli is most critical . Thank you. President obama well, ill make sure to get the doctor involved in this one, as well. And i know that sylvia and others through hhs were working on this a lot. Ill just make two quick comments. Number one, we know that you learn more between the time youre born and three years old than you will ever learn the rest of your life. You are a sponge at that age. And so the more we can invest in Early Childhood education, prenatal education for parents, home visitation with atrisk moms. And we know who they are. If youre a poor teenage single mom who maybe doesnt have a lot of support, then you are just much more likely to not know how to express the love you have for your child effectively, even if you love them just as much as we love our kids. But you just dont have the tools. So that has got to be an emphasis at the state and local levels. Thats where we can really make a difference. But us being able to target atrisk parents, new parents, young parents, that can be extraordinarily helpful. The the second thing that ill just say and then maybe, doctor, you might want to chime in on this and here im going to be a little controversial, but im in my last term, i only got a year left. [laughter] and its not like my poll numbers are that high. [laughter] i figure i can go ahead and say it. I think one of the benefits of conversation like this is to highlight the fact that income and race make a difference here. The truth of the matter is, is that poor communities are more vulnerable. One of the useful things about this forum is were all vulnerable, but its almost like if youre healthy and you get sick, you have more antibodies and resistance. And if youre poor or if youre already weakened and you get sick, then youre more vulnerable, right . There are some communities we know that are more vulnerable, and the kids there are more vulnerable. And part of what i hope this discussion does is to remind us that just as it could be malia or sasha, or carys kids, or any of our kids, those kids who dont always look like us and dont live in the same neighborhood as us, theyre just as precious. [applause] and their parents are much less equipped than you, sir, or i would be in terms of dealing with this stuff. And we got to get them help, too. So i think the doctor earlier talked about the importance of jobs and Economic Development and broadbased approaches so that growth helps everybody. There is some connection to Substance Abuse and the vulnerabilities that communities have. And weve got and lets face it, part of the reason West Virginia probably has more cases partly has to do with the economics that have been taking place in some of these communities, which is why its so important for us to also push on that front, as well. Doctor, any thoughts on that question about the vulnerability of children and how we can get to them quicker, more effectively . Dr. Brumage yes, mr. President. One of the things that im hoping to kick off here next week is a discussion about probably one of the most important studies that most people have never heard of called the Adverse Childhood Experiences study. The Baseline Study was done with 17,000 people at Kaiser Permanente in san diego, california. And what they found out was that when people score high on a scale of 10 questions everybody has a score from zero to 10, the higher you are on that scale, the more likely you are to have problems with addiction with iv drug use, with smoking, with obesity, with all the Public Health problems that were really seeing right now. I think a traumainformed community and an open discussion about where these problems are going is the first step in addressing why people are using drugs in the first place. And, mr. President , youre absolutely right. What happens in those early years and reaching out to those families who we know are at risk and devoting the kind of resources that we would need to is really the first step i think in really truncating this. Because if we dont, what were going to be doing 25, 30 years from now is having the same discussion about why these kids are abusing drugs, obese, and so on and so forth. So i think that thats a really important part and to have that sort of open discussion about that. Because it happens in good families, as well as in families who are disadvantaged. But i agree with you it happens probably more often in families that are disadvantaged. And it perpetuates the cycle of poverty, as well. President obama and for thosets create the markets that then seep into the more advantaged communities, right . So the reason we have a Fire Department is because if your neighbors house is burning down, you dont want to just leave it to the neighbor to figure out whether or not he can afford to put out the fire. You have an interest in making sure that fire gets put out before it burns your house. Well, the same is true with drugs. That child who is poor, you may think, well, i dont have to worry about that kid. Thats not my kid. My kid is going to be okay. But if you start seeing more and more kids who are more and more involved in the drug trade, over time that migrates into every community. And thats part of the reason why we got to care about every kid out here and make sure theyre vulnerable. Chief. Mr. Webster and if i can add also on that issue to the question, that handle with care program ruthlawn elementary is i dont believe its not in the city of charleston. But the handle with care is about to go statewide if it hasnt. But the handle with care program will fix some of those issues. I know were talking about addiction and maybe some others that are born with addiction. Well, the handle with care may not fix that, but it will at least alert the proper authorities that child is struggling because of some trauma or Substance Abuse in the home. President obama i think its a really smart program. I got to tell you, before i came down i hadnt heard about it. And id really like to see us advertise this more across the country and adopt this as a best practice. [applause] mr. Botticelli i want to thank everyone for coming today. And i want to particularly thank our incredible panel here been sharing their experience, but i think also giving us some ideas. And your innovation i think can really help spur replication around the country. So i really want to thank you for doing that. And just for closing comments, ill ask the president to say a few things. President obama well, ive been talking too much. I want to say three things. One is were just talking about the handle with care program and the gentleman here talked about his daughters lives being saved by an emt and Police Officers on the spot. Our Law Enforcement officers sometimes get a lot of attention when something bad happens. They dont get enough attention every single day when theyre out there saving lives, doing the right thing, looking out for people. And when ive talked to Law Enforcement, there is an incredible sense of compassion and empathy. And most folks arent in there just to try to be hardnosed. Most of the time, theyre just trying to help folks. And so, number one, they deserve our thanks. But number two, the more were supporting innovative policing that isnt just thinking, my job is to clean up a mess after it happens, but rather, im part of the community and i need to be part of preventing crime and stuff from happening in the first place i think we have to encourage that mindset in a lot of Law Enforcement. Im really proud of them, so they deserve some applause for that. [applause] second thing i want to emphasize, we live in a time when our politics gets so polarized. We got talk radio and we got the internet. And it seems like every year, sort of the rhetoric ratchets up about how this party is destroying the country, or those folks are unpatriotic, or theyre evil, or what have you. And i am deeply encouraged by the fact that on this issue, were seeing bipartisanship and we havent seen some of that rhetoric. And i hope that that continues because thats how well solve this problem. And the elected officials who are here, they represent i think that best tradition. And i just want to commend them for that, because thats how well be able to get stuff done , both at the congressional level and at the state and local levels, as well. And then, finally, i just want to once again thank cary, the parents who we heard from here. We are just so grateful that youre willing to share your story. It will save lives. And we want you to know that youre in our thoughts and prayers. And we want to just give you all the encouragement in the world. But just as importantly, or more importantly, we want to give your children encouragement, because they got great parents and these things could happen to any of us, but we want them to know that we love them and are looking out for them, as well. Thank you, everybody. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer tonight, wrote to the white house coverage of the jeffersonjackson dinner. Coverage begins at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Cspan has recovered of the road to the white house 2016, where you will find the candidates, the speeches, the debates, and most importantly, your questions. This year, we are taking our coverage in the classrooms across the country with our student cam contest, giving students the opportunity to discuss what important issues they want to hear the most from the candidates. Follow the contest and wrote to the white house covers 2016 on tv, on the radio, and online at cspan. Org. On tuesday, arizona senator john mccain and texas congressman Mac Thornberry cautioned the president against vetoing the Defense Authorization act. Senator mccain chairs the Senate Armed Services committee, while representative thornberry chairs the same committee on the house side. The president did veto the bill later in a week. This is just under an hour. Senator mccain, if i could begin by asking you to address then we will work through acquisition and some of the overseas crisis hotspots before getting to the big picture questions. But thank you for being here. If i could ask you about military reform. Mr. Mccain thank you, mike. As i always say when i return here and i get to see old friends and enemies back here, i thank you for inviting me back. Could i also say that it has been our real honor for me to worked with chairman thornberry, a very dedicated and hardworking chairman who also is committed to many of the reforms that we were able to enact together, particularly the issue of acquisition reform. There are many reforms, but acquisition reform, mac has been engaged in that for many years and that doesnt mean we agree on everything. [laughter] we have had spirited discussions on occasion but im proud of the product that we and the members of our committees overwhelmingly bipartisan have approved. The vote in our committee was 144 and similar in the house. So its not our product is a bipartisan product. If there was objection to it was to wait, it was by members to it, it was by members who were concerned or objected to this oco process that we could talk about later on. But the product was overwhelmingly bipartisan which is maybe unusual in congress these days, but i think it shows the commitment of members on both sides of the aisle to the men and women who are serving in a bipartisan approach to defense. Friends, today, 85 of the men and women who serve in the military, when they leave the military, dont have any financial benefit. They certainly have Veterans Benefits and g. I. Bill and other benefits, but as far as pure financial, 85 . Because those 85 dont serve 20 years. With the benefit of a very excellent commission, that was composed of some pretty outstanding people, we adopted largely their recommendation, which now allows someone after two years and one month to contribute in a 401 k and the matching funds are required. This way some 85 of those who serve will receive a financial benefit from their service even if its only a minimum of two years. And if i could expand one second on that, there are other reforms that are going to have to be made in the entitlements in the military. Secretary gates said a few years ago said we are going to be eaten alive by the ser son ell by the personnel costs. But we are going to have to make some very tough decisions on that aspect, the entitlement aspect of the military over time , and its not going to be easy. Mike compromised on that with the military pay increase. Which is modest, but it is at least there paid that is sort of a step in that direction. Mr. Mccain that is exactly. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for being here as well. If you wanted to comment on the personnel and acquisition reforms. Mr. Thornberry thank you for having us and i very much enjoy ed and appreciated the opportunity to work with chairman mccain who has a unique place in history. Mr. Mccain a loser. [laughter] mr. Thornberry nope. No. And just in a preliminary way, i want to emphasize what he just said and that is, when you look at the merits of the bill, it truly is a bipartisan product. Our bill came out of the committee 602 and there was one of each who were part of the two. From the very conception it has been republicans and democrats working together in committee, on the floor and in conference that has produced this product. It is only this overlay which i believe is essentially politics that is causing us to be here to have any sort of controversy. And i think we have because a Defense Authorization bill has been signed into law every year for 53 straight years, we may take for granted all the individual provisions. Chairman mccain was talking about the retirement reform. Let me mention one other provision in the personnel section and that is a requirement that d. O. D. And the v. A. Have the same formula for treating people for ptsd, sleep disorder and pain management. If you could do one thing, make sure the drug they get on when they are in the military they can stay on when they move to the v. A. System. The systems have not been able to do that. We require to do that. And my point is, there are 600 something provisions in this bill that do important things that the system is not able to do on its own and so thats part of the reason we have a separate branch of government to pass a Defense Authorization bill. Among the reforms, as chairman mccain mentioned, is a beginning of acquisition reform and my shorthand version of it, if it takes us 20 years to continue a new airplane, that airplane is out of date by the time it gets there. We have got to be better at being better in responding to threats and getting more value for the taxpayer dollars. We have a number of reforms, fundamental reforms thinning out some of the regulations, requiring more the work be done upfront, not invent as you go. But its only a beginning and we are committed on a bipartisan basis to doing much more work in the future. It doesnt happen if the bill doesnt become law. Mr. Mccain there are seminal moments in peoples experiences and i mentioned this to you earlier, mike, two years ago, we had a hearing with the navy, chief of Naval Operations, and i asked if the chief of Naval Operations knew who was responsible for 2. 4 billion cost overrun on the uss gerald ford. One of our latest aircraft carriers. I said who is responsible . He said i dont know. My friends, we now have a pentagon, multibilliondollar cost overrun and no one knows who is responsible. One of the major features of this legislation is that the Service Chiefs have to sign off when there is a cost overrun, and they have to sign off and they are responsible. And guess what . The Service Chiefs want that responsibility. They crave that responsibility because they want a better army, navy, air force and marine corps as well. As mac mentioned, we have a long, long way to go. Both mac and i have been out to Silicon Valley and im sorry to tell you right now theres not a lot of interest in Silicon Valley being engaged in acquisition with the military and with the pentagon because they dont see any benefit in getting involved in defense acquisition. And that has got to be another one of our priorities and we are making the first step to make it so we can engage Silicon Valley because we know the nature of warfare when we read in the paper this morning that the director of the cia has had his server hacked. My friends, we are in an interesting hightech cybersituation. Mr. Ohanlon if i could follow up on Acquisition Policy with apologies to some of you are here to talk about vetoes and toplevel budget issues. But these gentlemen have been working on this for so long with such commitment this is worth bearing down for a moment or two. If i could just ask you to talk two to talk about where we stand in the history of defense acquisition reform. If we go back to senator mccain, when you were a navy pilot, the services did run the acquisition world and before gold water mr. Mccain that was during the coolidge administration. [laughter] mr. Ohanlon we thought at that juncture, we concluded that we had given them too much leeway to make their own decisions and they were perhaps putting too much High Technology into weapons because there was the fighter jock and the carrier and so forth that put a premium on High Performance and costs werent sufficiently considered or timeliness in some of the acquisition programs. So we tried to centralize. The reforms of the 1980s tried to do that. And to we are today. Are you essentially saying we have overdone it and need to go back to the old days or is the current model that you are proposing in this legislation essentially a new approach that gives the services more authority, but in a different way than in the old days . Mr. Mccain it was about 30 years ago that gold waternichols was acted. It was a Great Success we will all admit. But times have changed. The challenges have changed and a lot of things are changing. We are committed to starting as soon as we get through this hurdle, starting hearings to review that so we can make the changes that are necessary. Its not as difficult as one at first thinks, and let me give you one example. When we saw that the ieds, many of them imported from iran, many of them sent by mr. Suleimani , who seems to be in charge of conflicts at least in three countries, sent in these copper tipped ieds. And they went through armor. The humvees were taken out and our casualties were high. We went through a rapid acquisition process. Raps got the m raps over to iraq and i dont know how many lives that it saved. We used an accelerated process. If we had the route that mac just referred to of the f35, god knows what would have happened. There is a model out there at least in some areas already in being that we could look at. That mwrap was developed technology. It wasnt something brand new, but we were able to get it to the battlefield in a matter of weeks or months but in a very rapid process and i dont know how many lives that it saved because the ieds couldnt penetration mwrap. Penetrates the mwrap. That is an example what we can do if we get the right process in the pentagon. Mr. Thornberry i dont think anybody says turn back the clock and that was perfect by any stretch. But it is true that pendulum swing and we have swung in the direction where there are more layers of bureaucracy which results in no accountability for the decisions because everybody does this. And plus, it is incredibly slow. Part of our just overall theme is simplify so that somebody makes the decision and you can hold them accountable for the decision. And also to speed up the innovation so that we can get capability, so that the mwrap is not the exception, so that that is more the norm. I want to say there is a fundamental change and that is the number of complex National Security threats that we face all at the same time. Dr. Kissinger testified in front chairman front of mccain about this. And we have to respond in a more agile way. You cannot respond with this layered bureaucracy that has developed. I will also admit, we are part of the problem. Part of what happens is, there is a cost overrun in the past and what do we do . We set a new bureaucracy or procedure to make sure it never happens again. Well, we cant do that and we can talk more about that if you want to, simplify and accountability is the direction to go, not all these checks and balances that paralyzed the system. I think that is the direction we are trying to go. The other point to emphasize, too many programs were inventing as we are buying and that is a source of the cost overruns and the delays. One of the things that we want to move more toward is have your Technology Development over here , but you buy established technology so you are not inventing on the fly and we end up with better results. Mr. Ohanlon i have two more questions before we turn to you. Speaking of global hot spots, one of the things in the bill that would allow the president to do Different Things in syria and ukraine and other parts of the world. And i want to ask about the hypothetical, were the president to veto this bill, can we imagine a path forward or propose a possible road map recognizing that a lot of other people will have a say in that as well. Seems like its a fairly imminent debate. But back to the bill itself and the hot spots. You have important language on syria and ukraine, iraq, i wondered if you want to begin and the other follow up on those questions. Mr. Thornberry we try to give the president more tools. For example, we have authority to provide defensive lethal assistance to ukraine. And there is a huge amount of bipartisan consensus in the house and senate that that should be done. In iraq, we say if the secretary cannot if the Iraqi Government is inclusive, then they are authorized to give weapons directly to the kurds, to the sunni tribes and other groups so that everything doesnt have to go through baghdad. Now, we cant make the president make any of those specific options but we are trying to give him more tools. Mr. Mccain and we are expressing the sense of congress, bipartisan on both of those issues. I hope that we remain very careful that the constitution says the president is the commander in chief. For us to say he has to give those weapons, that, in my view, is not in our area of responsibility. But we not only give him the authority, but overwhelming, that is the policy we want him to pursue. Friends, i have been to ukraine on many occasions and when these people are crying for a jaff javelin because russian tanks are in eastern ukraine. We wont give them that or intelligence, its heartbreaking. I used to get angry, now i am just heart broken with so many killed. They are fighting bravely with 20th century weapons against 21st century weapons. Which Vladimir Putin is sending in. As far as the kurds in baghdad is concerned, its obviously a vacuum thats been created but a new intelligence sharing now between iraq, russia, syria, and iran, thats an interesting scenario. One that, frankly, i never would have anticipated a fairly short time ago. Now theres talk about, and i hope its only talk talk, about russian air power being brought in to iraq against isis. Might be nice to see them doing something against isis from one standpoint, instead of moderate opposition which is the object of almost all of their attacks. But i think one thing is clear. The people who are really the best fighters right now for a variety of reasons are the kurds. Theyre the ones that liberated cobani. Theyre the ones doing a lot of work in parts of syria. As you pointed out, mike, this is a dangerous game. Theres the turkish aspect, theres the k. K. K. , none of this is simple. At least in the short term, i think its clear if we gave the kurds the weapons they needed they could be much more effective in achieving at least some of our shortterm goals that we are not achieving right now. Mr. Ohanlon back to you. Thats my final question, which has to do with the big picture and again to remind those of you, i think everybody in this room is following it to some extent but the basic idea is the president has said, hes happy with a higher level of defense spending, but disagrees with using the overseas operations account to do it, an account that they have available that other groups dont have available. He wants to demand some kind of bill like the ryanmurray compromise that would increase funding on both the defense and nondefense side. The congress has said, were not going to do that. But we do have a safety valve in the defense route. Isnt that better than nothing to address defense needs and save the domestic debate for a different day and maybe next Years Campaign . Perhaps im oversimplifying. Thats how i see the debate boiling down. Which leads to my question, and you can say whatever you want and challenge my rendition of where we stand but in terms of if there is a veto, wouldnt a natural compromise be for the domestic accounts to get half as much of a plus up as defense . In other words a ryan murray bill that tilted more in favor of defense because that would be a compromise between where the president is and where the congressional leadership is. One imagines preserving the funding levels youve got in your bill, but maybe increasing the domestic accounts roughly half as much for this year and next year. If you dont like that proposal, obviously id love to hear anything else you think may be a viable way forward so we can someday get a defense bill even if the president veto this is in the shortterm. Chairman mccain, would you like to start . Mr. Mccain first of all we , authorized to the level the president requested. Thats an important fundamental fact. He asked for 681, i believe it was, mac, but the exact level the president requested. Second of all, its an authorizing bill. It is not a money bill. The money is in the appropriations committee. So the has a problem with the level of appropriations, then it seems to me that fight should be with the appropriators and that aspect of funding. We authorize. Weve just been through a small number, this is a big deal. Of all the reforms, all the benefits and pay all the things and all the things that were doing, the reforms and so, it seems to me hes picked the wrong target. Second of all, second or third of all, he has accepted other bills with this in it. Its not as if this is a brand new problem. And oco, we dont like oco. We dont like it. Mac and i really dislike it. Wed like to see a multiyear level of authorization that we can plan on rather than lurching from one year to the next to see whether the budget Budget Committee is going to approve oco or not. I dont like it. And wed rather in a Perfect World see that level of budgeting that we can plan on and that more importantly, that the military can plan on. Theyre lurching from year to year, my friends. They dont how can you, over in the pentagon how can you plan ahead on almost anything if you dont know what the following years spending level is going to be . So its a broken system. If the president decides to veto this, then it seems to me that he is placing a higher priority over his concern and opposition to the funding budgetary mechanism than he is over the defense of the country. Because if he cared most about the defense of the nation, then he would focus his attention on the Appropriations Bills. Veto the Appropriations Bills, mr. President. Because you dont like the way the money where the money is coming from. So it really is its hard for me to understand, why the president of the United States should focus on the defense of the nation. Finally, again, sequestration, my friends. It is a disaster. Its a disaster in so many ways. Look at the world in 2011 when we enacted it. The budget control act. And look at the world today. Yet we continue to cut defense spending. I wouldnt mind increases in some spending, particularly where intelligence and other aspects are concerned, the cia, many other agencies of government. But this is really an unnecessary fight and i really wish that the president would reserve that fight if he feels that strongly about the overseas Contingency Operations to the appropriations process. Mr. Ohanlon chairman thornberry. Mr. Thornberry the president submitted a budget for defense that the chairman of the joint chiefs said is the lower ragged edge of what is necessary for defending the country. He asked for more base than was allowed in the budget control act and he asked for 50 billion in oco funding. 50 billion. When the house and senate come up with a budget resolution, we have to follow the law, we believe, on the budget control act so we have a lower base but make up the difference in oco so its an extra 38 billion in oco but the total is exactly the same. The only question is, which category the funding is put in. All of that extra oco, by the way, or i think essentially all of it, is operation and maintenance accounts and every dollar of it is authorized just like the base is. So theres no different between being allocated to specific programs by being in oco versus being in base. In addition, section 1501 of the ndaa says if there is a change in the sequestration numbers or the caps or anything, then that oco is automatically adjusted to the base. We have this automatic flexibility mechanism to reflect whatever budget agreement comes up. But here to me is the bigger point. If you are a counterterrorism soldier in afghanistan today, or if you are training the iraqi army today, or if you are at a Navy Air Force or marine or army base in the United States supporting those efforts, do you really care whether your operation and maintenance funds are classified as oco or whether theyre classified as base . Dont you just want the money . Dont you just want the support to know that its there . And so in some ways i think this is sort of an inside washington political game that loses sight of what we are asking men and women to do for us all around the country. And in that way, i think it is tragic. I think it is, as the Washington Post has written, if he vetoes it, it will be historic but not in a good way because there is nothing we could do in this bill that would fix the problem hes complaining about. I mean, id be find with fine with your solution to put more money in domestic programs and i suspect at the end of the day, as john says, there will be appropriations, you know, something has to be worked out before december 11. So im for whatever can be done. But im not willing to put at risk all of the reforms that we were talking about and just last point. The world as weve been talking is growing more dangerous and more complex. I think if theres ever a time the world, not to mention our troops, need to see institutions of the American Government operating for National Defense, its now. And so i dont pretend that signing a Defense Authorization bill solves all this other problem. We still have other problems to deal with. But good heavens, wouldnt with such strong bipartisan support of the bill, wouldnt it be a good thing for the country and the world to see if we can do something together instead of playing political games . Mr. Mccain ill also point out one additional factoid. In this bill is 11 billion in waste and spending. As an example we require a 7. 5 cut per year for four years in the size of staffs in headquarters. And so we are saving 11 billion in this legislation that is much needed and frankly, were taking out the easy targets in this bill and its easy system of are noweasy, so we going to dispense with his veto of 11 billion in savings. Mr. Ohanlon thank you. Lets go to you, please. Get my attention, wait for the microphone and if you could just ask one question and well try to make room for everyone that would like to get into this. Start over here, please. Good morning. My name is erica mccann with the i. C. Alliance for Public Sector and we want to say on behalf to of the tech industry, we appreciate the commercial item and regulatory review provisions in bill but you boast emphasized both emphasized the word beginning in this bill. Where do you see the f. Y. 2017 bill going . Mr. Thornberry i think one of the big challenges we face is inventing technology as we are purchasing it. So i think focusing on that issue is something for the future. We have a lot more thinning out of the regulations and simplification to do. As john was talking about, the challenge of Silicon Valley doing business, and its not just Silicon Valley, theres all sorts of Key Industries that are saying, i dont really think its worth doing business with those people. Theyre so bureaucratic so difficult. I have to have so many lawyers and regulators and accountants to deal with them. Thats a huge problem because a key strength for us has always been innovation that comes from the private sector that we plug into defense. Theres so much more to do and well never fix it all the way, by the way. It is taking steps each year to make it better. Mr. Mccain i would only add that there is a perception in many areas of industry that the pentagon only does business with certain favored industry that theyve done business with for years and years and years. Whether that is accurate or not, i cant say. But thats the perception when i talk to people who dont paradecisionally do business with the pentagon and i think thats and the other aspect is, were going to have to look at the entitlements. Were going to have to look at tricare. Were going to have to look at a number of those aspects of defense spending that need reform. And dont think thats going to be easy. That may be one of our most difficult challenges. Mr. Ohanlon incidentally quick , a vignette, we had an event here with secretary kendall and also with bill lynn, and i asked secretary kendall how would you rate our acquisition system . He said, we have a lot of problems. Ive been doing this better buying power stuff, but we also have the best equipment in the world and im sure you two would agree with that. Mr. Mccain not always as a reasonable cost. Mr. Ohanlon not always at a reasonable cost or schedule. So he said overall id give us a b plus. Then i asked bill lyn the same thing. He said maybe a b plus for some of the things were traditionally good at but for anything with moores law involved, maybe a cminus. We went into whether were at the beginning or mid range or closer to where we need to be. Well stay here in the front row. Good morning. I am from saudi arabia. I would like first of all to thank you for this beautiful time and thank senator mccain for his support for Global Security. Which is right now we are seeing it to be at stake, specifically like there was an article in wall street journal just yesterday that talked about the fact that obama is somehow taking the military hostage and youve retweeted this just yesterday. I would like to say that the administration of the United States is not taking the military hostage but its taking the Global Situation hostage. Why . Because of the issue that we are facing in ukraine, in syria, in iraq, in so many different areas around the World Without crucial actions that were taking place. Into place. Time, the same representative mac said something beautiful, political gain, which we are seing from this administration at the moment. So what is your point of view regarding the future of the United States when it comes to Global Security . Will they still follow the same path that president obama has assigned, which is the military new doctrine . Mr. Mccain well, ill try to be as brief as possible. Longterm, i am incredibly optimistic about america and its role in the world, whether youre talking about technology, whether youre talking about the fact that we are now energy independent, whether youre talking about all of the new devices, the new ways of conveying information and knowledge in the United States. Manufacturing capabilities improve, in the longterm, i am very bullish on america. In the shortterm, i agree with henry kissinger, the world has not seen more crises than were in today since the end of world war ii. We see if theres any benefit, we now see a reliance or relationship between israel and some of the sunni nations we have never seen before. Thats really taking for the digging for the to tell you the truth. But i see an absence of american leadership. I see frankly some of the countries in the region kind of hedging their bets and accommodating. Saudi arabia just made a 9 billion arms deal with russia. I dont believe that russia can provide them with superior weapons. I think its because saudi arabia has been looking at their relationships and i still think that a big moment was the day saudi arabia had planes on a runway ready to strike syria and found out on cnn that crossing the red line was basically meaningless on chemical weapons. So i think in the shortterm, we are in the most serious challenge, and you didnt even mention the south china sea, by the way. Thats another area. But finally, were seeing what iran is seeking and russia is helping them and this is an arc of shia influence in the region. As we see the latest activities, military activities in syria and the continued slaughter of young men who we are training and equiping and sending into syria, were watching the russians bomb and kill them while our major confliction, that is a new word for appeasement. We dont want to run into any russian airplanes. Certainly we wouldnt want to run into russian airplanes while theyre bombing the hell out of the people that we train and equip and send into syria. Dont think that lesson is lost on other young people who we might ask to go in and fight against isis. And against a brutal regime which has killed 240,000 of its own people and driven millions into refugee status. Mr. Ohanlon care to comment . Mr. Thornberry the point was made in the introduction, the United States is a unique force for good in the world. Political dysfunction and political gamesmanship here has consequences far beyond our shores. Its even more the reason where if we can do something together, we ought to do that. Mr. Ohanlon here in the third row, please. Good morning, sydney freeberg, breaking defense. To get back to the agonizing political games, for a moment, your favorite thing, i know, if there is a veto, is there some way to start disaggregating the n. D. A. A. . Its never been done in 53 years, never had to, are there ways to split off pieces, put placeholders in, say we offer certain things so you can preserve, for example, the acquisition reform, the compensation reforms, while deferring perhaps parts of the bill that authorize us from sources which is a matter of contention. Mr. Thornberry the president s basic complaint is he wants to spend more on domestic programs. Epa, irs, whatever. We cant do that in a Defense Authorization bill. We can take it apart and put it together, put the pieces back a different way, but we cannot fix his basic problem in any Defense Authorization bill because his basic problem is he wants to spend more on other stuff. I might agree on some of those other things we ought to spend more money on, but we cant fix it in this bill which is why the Washington Post says be doing it not for anything thats in it but for the broader budget disagreement, using it as a hostage, would be historic. Mr. Ohanlon we will stay in the second row and work our way back in a moment. Yes, please. John harbour with National Defense magazine. My question is for both of you. You talked about the differences with the white house over oco versus base budget funding. But are there any substantive policy disagreements and if so would you will would you be willing to negotiate on any of those to preserve acquisition reform the white house is willing to approve an authorization act and fight over the money later in Appropriations Bills . Mr. Mccain theres one major issue i know of and that is of course guantanamo. And we have pretty strict provisions in the bill and by the way, i would remind you, when the president released five prisoners in exchange for bergdahl, he broke the law which no one seems to be too concerned about, but what we have asked for is a plan. We have asked the president to submit to us, ive been waiting 6 1 2 years for a plan as to how they want to close guantanamo and how they want to move those prisoners and where to. I dont think thats a lot to ask for us to authorize such a thing to get a plan. And as short a time ago as four months ago, the president assured me he would send us a plan and lisa monocoe and ash cutter came over and sat in my came over and sat in my office three months ago and said, well give you a plan. So far, there is no plan. But that is an issue that is of continuing disagreement between the president and us. Mr. Thornberry and just as a reminder, the language the president primarily complains about on guantanamo is exactly the same language he signed into law in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and in 2014. So he doesnt really like it but until theres a plan that can get the support of the American People and their representatives, i suspect most members of congress are going to say, dont bring them here and dont modify facilities here. Which is basically the provisions. Of course there are other differences between what the president asked for and whats in our bill. The president proposed to retire the a10 aircraft. It turns out they are sending a10s into the middle east today and relying on them and our judgment was, probably its not a good idea to retire that. So of course there are differences of opinion. We dont no congress rubber stamps a president s request. But if you look at the constitution, it says that congress has the responsibility to build and provide and maintain armies, navies and other military forces. So of course there are differences. But our colleagues in congress and the president really focused on the oco issue. Mr. Ohanlon in the very back, the woman in the white coat. Against the door. Victoria, with green cross international. The 2016 ndaa conference report states that theres congressional intent to reject the budget request to authorize another brac round in 2017. I was wondering why is that, since it saves money in the longterm there seems to be improvement in the recovery in most local communities . Mr. Thornberry because the 2005 brac has not yet broken even. In other words 10 years later, it is still cost it has still cost the taxpayers more money than it has saved. So i think there were a lot of members who were here for 2005 and say, were not going to have a repeat of that. Now there is another provision in the bill that says the department has to come to congress with more specific data about where you think you have excess infrastructure. Because what weve heard for the past several years is all based on a study they did in 2004 and were saying, ok, lets not just trot out old information over and over again. If you think you have too much infrastructure, give us more specifics about it and well look at it and there may well be another brac in the future. But for this year, and remember this is a oneyear authorize authorization bill, whether were talking gitmo or brac, for this year, there will not be another brac. Mr. Mccain id just quickly add, a couple of decisions that i think looking back we never should have takeen that was a result of brac. One was closing the Naval Air Station in cecil field, leaving us only with oceana which is having enormous encroachment problems. The other was the consolidation of bethesda and walter reed. I dont know anybody when you look at the money thats going to be spent on transportation and all that, that was another bad decision. So to think somehow that bracs are nirvana is not an accurate depiction. And we all know, too, what bracs are. An abrodationgation, an act of cowardice on the part of congress because they cant close a single base on their own. I would never repeat that. [laughter] mr. Ohanlon here in the third row. Good morning. Christiana with the Government Accountability office. Our organization, along with our Sister Organization c. B. O. And cbrs have a whole body of work on defense Business Operations that have come out basically that the department of defense is on an unsustainable path. Can you speak to that . Mr. Mccain those studies have been very important to us. They have been very helpful to us in developing the legislation that we have. And we will continue to use them. I think all of us, particularly where mac and i sit, appreciate the g. A. O. And the work they do. They really are the watchdogs and they have become more and more important over the years as their knowledge and background on many of these issues. We had a very interesting hearing on the carrier as you know and the g. A. O. Represented their witness was very important in providing balance in that hearing. Mr. Thornberry we have used g. A. O. On the acquisition reform steps we have taken so far. I just emphasize that a lot of things you focused on, the business sorts of things with the department have a huge effect on acquisition and buying goods and services. So thats part of the reason that were committed to take many more steps in order to improve the way in a taxpayer dollars are used for those things. And well need yalls help to do it. Mr. Ohanlon here in the fifth row, please. Jeff Jeff Phillips with the reserve officers association. With the linkage of the National Guard and other accounts to oco what will happen to modernization reserve equipping of our components, a million men and women strong . Mr. Thornberry it depends on what happens with these bills. Obviously. You cannot buy things if theres not some sort of agreement on the authorizing the purchases and appropriating the dollars to do so. And thats part of the reason youve seen huge, a large number of house members say that just operating for the rest of the fiscal year on a continuing resolution is unacceptable. Because were doing some things we dont need to keep doing and we need to do more of some things were not doing now. And c. R. s do not allow you that flexibility. So there are needs in all sorts of areas, needs to be filled that will not be filled if this bill is vetoed and if theres not some sort of budget agreement. Mr. Mccain i cant emphasize enough. A continuing resolution for the rest of this year is incredibly damaging to our ability to defend this nation. The general, who we have the greatest respect for, you know him very well, mike, has painted a very stark picture of what happens if we dont stop sequestration. We dont stop sequestration and have a continuing resolution, ill tell you, it is going to be more damaging than any time ive ever seen. Mr. Ohanlon by the way, clarifying question from me. You mentioned, chairman thornberry, that a lot of the extra 38 billion is in operations and maintenance, i assume you allow yourself more play in the base budget for procurement. In other words if we dont get a resolution and go back to a c. R. , in addition to having to continue policies of last year, which may be inappropriate, well be at a lower level of defense acquisition. Is that a fair question . Mr. Thornberry essentially if you look at it, if sequestration kicks in and you have across the board cuts thats the same level as a c. R. It is, as john says, it would be devastating to any semblance of what it takes to defend the country. Mr. Mccain please dont underestimate the effect this has on the men and women who are serving. A lot of the really good ones and others are saying ive had enough. They dont they cant operate , they cant maintain they cant , do the exercises, they dont know when their next operation or exercise is. Talk so some of these young captains and majors an senior enlisted, they are hurting very badly and over time, this is going to hurt retention of the really outstanding people we have. Mr. Ohanlon by the way, bob hale, who i see in the audience, has pointed out that were hurting families and others because theyve been furloughed and lost pay and gotten the message theyre not valued as much as they should be. Time for one last question in the back row. Hi, im with the voice of america, the persian service. My question is directed to senator mccain. You mentioned, you talked yesterday about the possibility of a recommendation for a nofly zone on syria. I was wondering whether, because of the Russian Campaign there, wouldnt that be counterproductive for the air coalition . And my second question, with the government in iraq have you recommended them to restrict activities of general suleimani there and whether theyve come back to you with any response to that . Thank you. Mr. Mccain ive had several conversations with the Prime Minister of iraq but frankly, i have not recently and it doesnt have to be me to carry the message of what we think of suleimani. In a hearing before the Armed Services committee, senator cotton asked general dunford how many marines and soldiers that he believed were killed by the copper tipped i. E. D. s i referred to earlier that the iranians shipped in to iraq and general dunford said he thought 500 were killed. I think its a little less than that actually. So now were seeing mr. Suleimani flipflopping, hopping around different places, including a visit to moscow, and orchestrating activities in iraq itself. Weve come a long way. I didnt get i couldnt hear the first question. Mr. Ohanlon i think it was about syria and the nofly zone . Mr. Mccain well, even former secretary clinton, as well as general petraeus and others have all recommended a nofly zone, buffer zone for where refugees could locate. Stop the barrel bombing. An area where we could train and equip moderates. As far as i can tell, almost everybody that i know and respect approves of some form of that except for susan rice and Valerie Jarrett and barack obama. Mr. Ohanlon weve been very privileged to have these gentlemen here today. Please join me in a round of applause. 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