Transcripts For CSPAN Washington This Week 20150914

Are on the front line and work and see what the arrest are and gets away, i would say, we would be lucky if we got away with 40 . Chairman mr. Starr, of the frontline people we are relying on, and the embassy and the local guards, do you know what we are paying those local guards on a monthly basis . Starr i could not quote you an exact dollar figure. I could go over this with the contract we are putting in place. I will tell you it is a Competitive Salary in terms of any other local guards in the country and in fact, it is in competitive with the police as well. It is based on mexican salaries. Heres the concern. We go to the second slide. Teen in a was built under Standard Embassy Design. Is it too ugly for mexico . Not to my knowledge, sir. But in fact it really wasnt a Standard Embassy Design. It didnt really do the exact standard embassy. So were spending about 668,000 but its as close to Standard Embassy Design as we have. But then we have these modified design excellence. Monterey was built. But the two under construction were now looking at 1. 8 illion per desk. Were talking about 191 million to build something at 154 million. How do you explain that . 154 million, you start doing that math, its like 88 desks. How do we afford to do that around the world . Why do we have such a massive jump in expense . This is expense that can go to personnel and guard forces and you want to take away danger pay. Why so much expense on these . I acknowledge your concerns and it is my obligation as a Career State Department employee to make sure that we are doing our best to serve our taxpayers concerns. Our Building Quality has increased to adapt to new circumstances. Its very hard without a Detailed Analysis that looks at site, where building is located what were trying to accomplish, in each building to compare on a desk by desk basis. What other metric would you use . It takes more of an accounting approach where you look at what the inputs are and engage it. Well, thats costing tens of millions of dollars more and its taking a longer time. We will continue to have. Earings about this no doubt we need new facilities. Danger ask about the pay. Whats the answer to their question . The answer is that our allowances change over time as situations change. And yes we have developed a new system by where were changing danger pay and hardship pay. In mexico were going to the changes will be some posts will go up and some posts will go down but that reflects we believe the change in the situation on the ground. The danger pay thats been calculated in the past some of the elements of that, the iminal violence and Living Conditions, social isolation that you mentioned, those are also accounted for in hardship pay. So if we look at the net pay for our colleagues for example, will be getting a 5 increase. But we think that reflects the accurate situation. So naveo laredo, there is no mayor that has authority over police force there. Weve documented the violence. Are you telling me its more safe now than it has been . Yes. They disagree with this position. Im not sure about the specific cases. Ill read you about the basis of conditions of environments its a recruitment and retention incentive. My understanding they disagree with this. Youre telling me that in northern mexico its less secure in mat morse now and more secure in nuevo laredo . We believe the situation on the ground has changed and our nuevo laredo if you work at the consulate do you know how far you can travel away from the consulate as an american . I do. How far . You dont. You stay close by your home and your social life is very restricted. Thats true. You have about nine square miles. That you can operate that youre allows to go. And youre going to decrease their pay. Sir, when officers sign up to go to these posts they recognize that situations may change and allounses may change in the time theyre serving there. They recognize it. Im just telling you, youve got a lot of people on this panel that dont understand given the massive amount of violence the statistics we just went through, the violence and youre going to decrease these peoples pay. I went down there it was the number one issue. This is not an acceptable conclusion to your socalled analysis ifment do not agree that it is more safe than it has been. And its an exceptionally difficult place to live. I now recognize the gentleman from maryland mr. Cummings. I want to pick up exactly where the chairman left off. How often are these reassessments made with regard to pay allowances . I see mr. Saurs jumping up and down. Ifor i could answer the question. Please do. At least once a year we review the allowances at all of our posts. The danger pay that the chairman is referring to in ugust of 2014 we began a review of how we issued danger pay. We looked at also our hardship allowance. When was that . In august of 2014. The Global Program include posts much more dangerous. Yes, i absolutely admit there are high levels of violence in both of those places. But in our analysis it is very different that the violence there is not directed against the consulate or consulate personnel. They can be at the wrong place at the wrong time. We have many places in the world where we serve where the violence is directed against our people, and those are the places where our employees are getting danger pay. For the types of criminal violence that we see in mexico, that is reflected in their hardship differential and many of them have gotten increases in their hardship differential to reflect the criminal violence. What do you define hardship as . Hardship is it looks at many different factors. It can look at isolation, pollution, the medical condition. The nine square mile limitation would be a hardship . Exactly, sir. But i would also tell you that these posts in mexico, our employees can get in a car and in 10, 15 minutes be across the border in the United States and shopping and going to school. We have places in chad, mali, no such place h outlist exist. And those theyll get a higher level of pay and differential. Were very careful on how we look at this. Kept to make sure that our people are getting the right allowances for the conditions on the ground. Did you have something . I think youll find that this is a bipartisan effort to make sure our people are treated fairly and that they are paid adequately. Ut when i thought about what ms. Sarn yo said, she said a lot of times when these people go into these positions they know what theyre going into. I know that sounds simple. But when youre a person who really wants to serve your government, you may that may. Ery well be part of that but i assume a lot of these people will take these positions because its part of their job. M i right . I think many of the Foreign Service officers are willing and know the dangers. But they also know that these change over time when youre at post. And if the situation changes, they could be changed while theyre serving there or after they leave. Mr. Star said that you look at them on a yearly basis. If something happened would there be any exception to that eneral rule of one year . Not typically. When we have a radical change we look at the measures that we take. We may implement additional security. We may withdraw personnel we may take family members out of a post. Typically the allowances are looked at once a year on an exceptional basis if something does happen we can look at it but generally allowances are looked at once a year. I also met with americans that are working with American Companies that there and talked with them as well. I think its very clear in our travel warnings that are out to the american businesses and the cons lar warnings, were not pulling any punches on the evel of danger down in mexico. Two cartel were beginning to fight it out. We were plotting every single day where the violence was taking place. We were looking at the location of our residences, the location of where we went shopping, the location of our facilities against where the violence was. We were ready to pull the pin and move people out if that violence came into our neighborhoods. But we look at those almost daily. Back then in february, there were six times as many incidents as the compared to the month before. Is that right . Thats approximately right, sir. Yes. Now, did any of these security incidents involve u. S. Citizens . Yes. There were some u. S. Citizens, not from the consulate that were involved, but yes. So what you talked about how you were monitoring the problems but what else has the state department done or is doing to address that type of increase . I think thats where the value of the cons lalingts is most apparent and the embassy as well. We put out warnings. Our counsel general was dealing with the governor of the region and talking with the police, the Regional Security officers talking with the police and the ambassador and others were pointing out that the levels of violence were going up and that the government needed to address this quickly and effectively. And thereafter that. And i dont want to say that this is entirely just at our urging. Clearly the government of mexico understood this as well. They put Additional Forces on the ground to try to stem the violence. Now, mr. Harris in june of this year shots were fired at the u. S. Customs and Border Protection helicopter in laredo, texas. Shots appear to have come from the mexican side of the border. Fortunately, no one was injured in this incident. But it does raise concerns about the safety of our federal Law Enforcement officers that are protecting the border. I understand that in response to customs and Border Patrol they sent two armored blackhawk helicopters equipped to handle small arms fire to be used in the region. Is that correct . Yes, sir, thats correct. And what else has been done to ensure the safety of the agents on the ground . Well, first of all before i answer the question id like to say that a job of the Border Patrol agents is a very dangerous work. Weve had 122 Border Patrol agents killed in the line of duty since 1924 and d. H. S. And c. B. P. Was created in 2003 and since that time weve had 33 officers killed in the line of duty and 29 of those were Border Patrol agents. So theres no question that being a u. S. Border patrol agent is dangerous work. I think because we deal with a Large Population of economic migrants but mixed in with those individuals are some obviously criminals. So its important that our agents stay on their toes on a routine basis. We try and take a look at what we call hot spots which are zones that are known for high level of criminal activity and make sure that we have sufficient agent resources and equipment and the training and tactics in those areas to deal with those types of situations. Two last questions. Plrplfment harris can you mr. Harris can you think of anything else that congress can do to help protect these brave men and women on these bordsners first, we appreciate all the support you give us. I would like to point out on the shooting incident that congressman chafe ets responded to that situation as we referenced. Just more stay engaged with the border. I think theres a lot of misinformation coupled with Border Security efforts. So we welcome any visits by members of congress to my new office so you can see and hear whats going on, on the border, firsthand. Mr. Starr can you think of anything else we can do . And by the way, while youre formulateding your ains just want you to know mr. Harris on behalf of all of us we understand how dangerous the job is and we appreciate everything that you all do. To address the issues that you have. Because they are very difficult. And were sorry for the many losses and injuries that you just spoke about. Mr. Starr. Congressman, i believe that what we need to accept is that the battle to increase security rule of law and justice in mexico is going to be a longterm battle. I think that we have we can see what has happened in colombia and the types of improvements that have been made there and i think those are the types of improvements that were going to have to help mexico make. I think that ms. Saarnio can talk more about that. But i think continuing those types of programs that we started in kwlomba and were currently running in mexico to improve the judicial system, the training of the police, all those types of things are whats ultimately going to make this a safer location, a safer country. Thank you very much. Before the gentleman yields back i would point out that the there is no police force in nuevo laredo. There is none. So you can work on training them but there isnt even one. Its run by the drug cartels. And shame on the state department for cutting the peoples pay there from the state department. Thats not the way youre going to build morale and do more things. Youre given tens of billions of dollars and youre going to cut those poor peoples pay. You can talk about training the local plees force but there isnt a local police force to train. Mr. Chairman reclaiming my zero time. Mr. Starr would you please answer what the chairman just said . I think he makes a good point. He is correct to my knowledge that the local police force is actually not functioning there. But there are levels of Police Forces as well. There are police from the gove nant like a state type of police and there are federal police is also there and soldiers. So i think while chairman chafe ets is correct that we have great concerns about the fact that the mayor was murdered that the local police have tremendous difficulties, we also work with the federal and state authorities to ensure that other types of Security Services and police are effectively working as effective as they can. Scuke to enter into the record, this is the United States department of state bureau of Diplomatic Security mexico 2015 crime and Safety Report nuevo laredo into the record. Wousmed. Now recognize the gentleman from florida mr. Mica. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for holding the hearing. Is the violence better or worse . In some places its better, in some places its certainly worse. Ambassador moser. I would point out if you look at im not an expert on mexico. But congressman mica, its overall its not getting much better. Is that right . I think there are ebs and flow. I think there are areas that are safer now than before. But overall its a pretty violent country. Yes. The same thing . Same assessment . I would say sir we are cautiously optimistic that we think the situation is somewhat better in certain parts of the country and thats reflected in our danger pay changes. Weve seen parts of the country that were in due to insurgency status a few years ago are operating better. And there are places worse. Thats true. Mr. Harris. Similar response. I would say it depends on the area. I traveled to mexico on a personal basis and professional levels. Some areas you travel with security and others you dont. But overall a dangerous place no question. Well, i really ive read all the testimony. Mr. Judd, i can every member of congress should read yours. Its an incredible assessment. Also a bit historic, i chaired criminal justice and drug policy from 98 to 2000 and was in mexico. We had information at that time from the president s office to the cops on the street corruption was prevalent. Unfortunately, thats pretty much the same situation that we have today. But your report details it very well. 2014 ing is the number of you outline a number of criminals convicted criminals, and you cite the increasing number of criminal aliens coming across. Now were better able to deteblingt them but the numbers are astounding. It says to put the figure in perspective 2014 the Border Patrol apprehended and arrested just under 500,000 illegal immigrants. Meaning one in every five arrests last year was a criminal alien. Is that correct . So to get counted they had to be in. Is that right . Yes, sir. So basically its out of control. Then you said what can the oversight duty do to g prove. You said there has to be consequences. Absolutely. I was stunned to find out that mexico is one of the most important immigrant and narcotics transit point and how many agents do we have in phoenix . We have none. The other thing too is there has to be consequences. How many cons lats do we have . I counted about nine in mexico. Is that right . I think you have to have consequences. The place is out of control. I just read well, you cited the helicopter shooting. At a u. S. Helicopter. Right . That. Chairman said and in your report i think mr. Judd you said they actually shot down a mexican helicopter the month before. Is that correct . Yes, i did. And most startling we heard the chairmans one of the missionaries down there shot yesterday. The 43 kids that were turned ver by local authorities and shot or killed, and then their bodies burned or destroyed. And this week or so i guess they just produced sort of a whitewash report on what took place. Jiminez leaders mr. Blanko was found dead about two weeks ago. Few weeks ago he reported the bodies hidden reporting a worsening situation. So theyre killing people trying to do something about the injustice and slaughter thats going on in mexico. Is that correct, mr. Judd . Yes, it is. And what i find the scariest part of all of this border violence is how its extending now into the interior of the United States. We just had a young man shot in the back by presumed an illegal alien from the country of el saveleddor. Ssociated with a gang. We just passed this past ek i saw the report that our young people our students more them are now on marijuana than on cigarettes. Congratulations. I now recognize the gentlewoman from new york ms. Ploneie for five minutes. Thank you for calling this truly important hearing. And mr. Judd hit it right on the head with his comment that its not only on the border now, it is coming into the United States. St this past week a News Reporter and cameraman were hot. A Police Officer putting gas in his car were shot. Its out of control. A lot of this shooting is coming from guns that were plfered and slipped over the border into manufactured and slipped over the border into mexico. Mexico has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the entire world yet its seen a surge in gunrelated violence. Just yesterday chairman cummings shared with me this letter that came from the chargee. In it he says that the atf found that over 70 of the guns recovered in mexico in 2014 were sourced from the United States. Now, that is a shocking statistic. 70 of the guns came from america. And in it he further writes congress can play a very Important Role in combating these transborder criminal organizations and the flow of illegal firearms by enacting proper legislation. I ask unanimous consent to put this letter into the record. Without objection, it is so ordered. And we are trying to do just that. Earlier today in a bipartisan way Ranking Member cummings and others, member kelly from illinois, introduced legislation to make it a felony to deal with illegal guns, to be a trafficker. Its not even a felony in our country to traffic in illegal guns. I would say how dumb can you be . We should pass a bill making it a felony tomorrow. Today. And also, the penalties as weve heard in hearings before this committee on the fast and furious hearings we had from Law Enforcement, they dont even bother to arrest traffickers or straw purchasers, those who purchase guns for others that are known criminals, drug dealers or gang leaders, because theres no penalty. Its like a paper penalty so they dont waste their time doing it. And they literally pled with us to give them the tools to do the job. So today we are introducing this bill on a bipartisan way that would increase penalties for straw purchasers and make trafficking in illegal guns a felony. Now, in mexico, just to give an example, to make a purchase at a gun store and they only have one gun store in the whole country. But to make a purchase they are required by law and their store is operated by the army. They must pass a background check, present identification, pass through a metal detector, hand over cell phones, a camera, just to enter the building. And once inside, a prospective buyer is fingerprinted, photographed, and then permitted to buy a single weapon and box of ammunition and theyre required to take that home and put it under lock and key. So they have strong gun laws. But the obvious question is where all these guns are coming from. And these guns are coming from the United States. Mr. Harris, in your testimony you said and i quote from your testimony the u. S. mexican border, the primary sets are southbound gun smuggling, Northern Bound drug trafficking, Human Trafficking, ilLegal Immigration and the Violence Associated with these activities. Ould you elaborate please, mr. Harris, on the southbound gun smuggling. Can you tell us more. Yes, maam. Ill answer that question in kind of two parts. One is what my role is in southbound weapons smuggling at a strategic level as i had also mentioned in my testimony for the first timer we have identified across the border the top Transnational Criminal Organization whose are involved in the full gamut of smuggling activities which are listed i would add southbound bulk cash smuggling to that list as well. But to me this is a huge accomplishment never before seen in my career. All investigative agencies, f. B. I. , d. E. A. , eist, they all have their case that is they work. But for the First Time Ever we have Interagency Agreement on this top criminal agencies we elieve represent the highest threat to u. S. Security. Our success on targeting these organizations before this is pretty much been on the domestic side. But this new position gives me the capability to target these organizations all the way from origination point to the final destination point. Thats one part of the how many guns do you think are being trasked into mexico each year . Do you have any feel for it . The second part of my answer will respond to that. Im not an expert at port of entry operations. I will have to defer to my counterparts. However, as my former capacity, we routinely augment southbound inspections by officers with detailed Border Patrol officers. By and large our success in targeting southbound weapons smuggling is due to the vigilance and capabilities of our agents. We do not have the same kind of Technology Going southbound as going nordbound nor do we do 100 inspections. We do pulse and surge investigations but largely the southbound weapons seizures are cold hits. It would be helpful to have some similar Technology Going southbound to what we have going northbound. Nonintrusive inspection technology. Some of the back scatters would be very instrumental and would give us a better picture what kind of weapons are going southbound. My time has expired but if i could say mr. Chairman in one second obviously part of controlling the crime in america and at the border is controlling the sale of illegal gun trafficking and straw purchases of illegal guns. Thank you. Now recognize the gentleman from texas for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i get started ms. Maloney points out in her call for more gun laws that mexico has some of the strictest gun laws and yet has the high violence. I think that just goes to make the point that restrictive gun laws actually take the guns out of the hands of lawabiding citizens. Will the gentleman yield . I dont have much time if i do at the end i will but i have some points i would like to make bauds i used to represent the border at brownsville and joined in june in the visit to laredo after the helicopter was shot at, had the opportunity to visit with some of the Border Patrol agents down there. Real quickly. Mr. Harris, have we caught the people who shote at the helicopter or has the Mexican Government caught them . The f. B. I. Is responsible for investigating all the shots on federal agents. Theyre responsible for that investigation. Its my understanding that an individual was taken into custody, transported to tam peeko where he went before a judge but he is now missing. Thats reassuring. One of the things that i leshed down there in visiting some of the Border Patrol agents and spending time on the border with some of the agents was a level of frustration with some of the policies that this overnment has. A frustration with seeing the same folks again and again. Theyre caught, shoot across the border, counted as deportation and are back in the United States in a matter of hours. In fact, i visited with some of the sheriffs in the district i represent. Theyre all very upset and concerned about the Priority Enforcement Program in which case very often the federal government refuses to take illegal aliens that they apprehend for deportation. Mr. Judd, i will start with you. Can you talk a little bit about, was my characterization of the frustration of the rank and file agents accurate . I think it was too soft. I think that you could have expressed a much greater level of frustration. I want to point out that on the northern border there was an rrest made of an illegal alien. We took this individual into custody. We immediately released the individual on the street. Within weeks that individual went up to i believe it was great falls, montana and raped a 14yearold girl. We had this individual in our custody. We had the authority to remove this individual from this country. And we didnt do it. And then that individual went and raped a 14yearold girl. Her life will never be the same. And we see this again and again with the tragic murder of kate stinely the shooting of the Border Patrol agents in the Rio Grande Valley by a pair of men who between them had been deported seven times. And there was a story in the news, i think in the past couple of days where a convicted burglar from mexico with a history of repeated felony convictions and deportations was caught last week. He was the fifth time he crossed the border and had actually spent the bulk of the past 30 years in various jails. It just seems absolutely critical that we get the border secured. No point working on immigration before we get that done. Mr. Harris, can you talk a little bit about the Priority Enforcement Program, the pep, and have you heard from the sheriffs as well about their concerns . They catch somebody, an illegal alien, and basically have nothing to do with them but turn them loose . We just defunded sanctuary cities in this country. But with p. E. P. And the Border Patrol not taking aliens weve basically created a sanctuary country. Havent we . Ill answer that question again in two parts. One is, as was noted in my testimony, ive been in the Border Patrol for 31 years. Ive been in the bort Border Patrol when we made up to 1. 6 million apprehensions a year with about 3,000 agents on duty. Most of those individuals were from the country of mexico, very easy to deal with those individuals. It was a revolving door type of a situation, as mr. Judd had indicated earlier. But the border dynamics have changed over my career from what it was. We 42 of everyone apprehend is from a noncontiguous territory. Most of those from central america, a lot of them being women and children. So its a different kind of dynamic on how we deal with those individuals. And about 33 of everybody the Border Patrol arrests has to go before some kind of an immigration judge or an immigration proceeding. So the Border Patrol does not own all of the process necessary nor am i seeking that ownership. But it does not own all of the process that would allow for immediate repatriation of those individuals. The second part of my response again is what my job is really to target the criminal network from beginning to end. That does not necessarily mean that were targeting criminal aliens throughout the United States as part of my job. But ill just give you one example. I think ice fugitive operations does a good job picking up criminal aliens. And when i first stepped into this job they had just done a press event where they had just arrested about 2,000 criminal aliens throughout the question. But your job and your mens job would be easier if there were consequences to entering this country illegally. And folks were deported and faced consequences for multiple offenses. Just a yes or no. Would that be a better situation . Because im out of time. Yes. Are you with us on that one mr. Harris . Excuse me, sir . Do you think it would be better if we had some consequences and reprate rated folks . Rsh i think every Law Enforcement office, whatever their profession is, when they take an action they want to see some sort of a consequence delivered. But a little more challenging. Thank you. My time has expired and apologize to the gentlelady from new york not being able to yield to her. Now recognize the gentlewoman from the District Of Columbia ms. Norton for five minutes. Thank you. This discussion about undocumented criminals violence of course on the border raise it is question for me of a role that consulates play with respect to security, particularly in northern mexico. Now, as i understand it mr. Agencies, security the Law Enforcement agencies are coordinated or facilitated through the consulate. I have in mind customs and Border Patrol protection, Drug Enforcement agency, immigration of course and Customs Enforcement marshall service. Is the consulate the place where these agency would be stationed . Maam, i cant say that every single one of those agencies is at every single one of the consulates. But you are correct that the consulates do serve as a base for consular operations and for those type of operations, along with the embassy. What im trying to get at is the average american if you say whats a consulate for, would thing about visas and tourism and the rest. Were talking about violence, undocumented criminals and the rest. Im trying to get at what were doing on the ground in mexico through our consulates and the role they play. Now, the United States i think, mr. Starr, has wisely tried to involve itself in reform of the criminal Justice System in mexico itself. In order to truly get at drug trafficking, gun trafficking, organized crime which of course is always at the top of our agenda. I would like to ask you in that gard about the socalled madira initiative. Is h, as i understand it, charged with disrupting criminal organizations, strengthening judicial institutions, in mexico, improving stability in the surrounding communities. Oes that sound like what the madira initiative is about . Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. I really appreciate you mentioning that because what were talking about is the initiative our Security Initiative with mexico. Weve been working with mexico extensively since 2008. We have invested about 1. 4 billion right now in trying to improve the security situation in mexico by working with the Mexican Government at the federal, state, and local levels. We have seen areas where we have made progress and we think a lot of that progress is because of our presence on the ground. If were working in certain areas our Law Enforcement officials, our military officials can work with mexican counterparts to give them advice, to lend assistance when they need it, provide training, and its because of the funding provided by congress which were very grateful for where weve been able to make some in roads and help mexico establish the rule of law and the system that they are seeking. What impact would closing the consulates have on an Initiative Like the ma rrn Ida Initiative . I think it would be very tragic not to have our colleagues down there in mexico. They work very well on a daily basis with counterparts all over the country. Is the consulate where theyre based . Theyre based at the embassy primarily but theyre also based in several of our consulates. So in some of the cases where weve had the most success its where our officials were working locally with the officials locally. So yes it would have an impact and i think it would be detrimental to not have. What impact has it had so far on security in the region . We believe the strong presence of our consulates actually helps establish the security. Not only are we providing for the security of american officials, american citizens who are there, but we also can work with local authorities and, as i said, to help them rebuild their institutions and help the Mexican Government achieve what its seeking to do. Our colleagues are really working all over the country all the time with the Mexican Government and were trying to help them achieve their goals. Thank you mr. Chairman. Now recognize the gentleman from georgia for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Starr earlier in your opening remarks you said environments such as that in mexico involve constantly shifting threats, planning, agile decision makic but you said its simply not enough to improve physical security. Were also training the security to better respond. Since 2008 the state department has been has had a plan to build a Diplomatic Security Training Center. Included in that has been the curriculum, the infrastructure, and the personnel. But the o. M. B. And g. A. O. Have come out with reports on this. During those studies and those studies that the o. M. B. And g. A. O. Have come out with, the o. M. B. Report has not been released. I have seen the report. My staff has seen the g. A. O. Report. Both of those reports cite the lack of cooperation by the state department in trying to come up with proposals for this facility to be built. A facility me on thats this important, on a facility that is this expensive, why the state department would be uncooperative in addressing this . Can you tell us me why fletscr the federal Law Enforcement Training Center in georgia was only giving 60 days to respond to this . Dont you think that they deserve more than 60 days . Dont you think the taxpayers of this country deserve to know exactly apples and apples whats going to be the best facility . What are we going to get the most from our taxpayers dollars there . Would you agree with that . Yes, sir, i would. I believe that its clear that spending money on something that doesnt meet our requirements is not going to be a good investment. In previous hearings and in previous discussions they could not take our entire program and dont have the facilities that we need for the types of weapon hat is we use at the facility. We believe that the fort picket site is the best. Mr. Starr, let me ask you, did you make this clear to fletcr . Do you think that they had all the nsk . Because when you talk about the curriculum requirements for the Training Center, both the reports says the course information is only in the minds of the instructors and providing it would cause a significant delay in Diplomatic Security operation. How can we get a price on the curriculum how can we get an idea when its only in the minds of the instructors . Im sorry, sir thats not correct. This comes right out of the report. We have extensive rorts. We have provide it had curriculum. This is not just in the mind of instructors, is sir. Can i i cant ive seen the report. Which report . The o. M. B. Report which you have denied to be released. I found nothing in there sensitive whatsoever. There were six comparisons done. Fletcr came out on top with three. Two of them were even. And one of them favored fort picket. Can you tell me why that report is not being released . Sir, the o. M. B. Report is a preliminary study. Why is it not being released . I dont know, sir. Thats an o. M. B. Report. I can tell you that the g. A. O. Report does not reflect that. G. A. O. Report has been finished. It has not been released yet either. I think its probably wise to wait until you would agree this is important. Protecting the lives of our Foreign Service members are very important. Protecting their lives and training is very important. We all agree with that. This is easy. This is easy. When we sit here and when we sat here a couple of months ago and talked about afghanistan and said we spent too much money we should have could have would have. But whats not easy to do something about it and to learn from it. And to have an apples to apples comparison. You need to go back, you need to compare the two sites, compare them fairly. If youre right then i will be the first one in line to support you in that. But im telling you, you have not done that yet. The state department has made up their mind theyre not going to change their mind. It can only be built near washington, d. C. Because after all, everything comes from washington, d. C. Thats the only way it can ever work. Mr. Starr, this is not right. You need to go back. You need to make it apples to apples comparisons. If we sit here and we say we shouldnt have spent this much money but we dont learn from it, and we dont do something about the future, then were all at fault here. Mr. Chairman i yield the remainder of my time. I thank the gentleman. Now recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes. Thank you. I thank all the witnesses for coming today. This is enormously important discussion were having. We heard from you mr. Harris and particularly from you mr. Judd some really vivid testimony about the level of violence that were seeing connected with the border and the level of criminals that were seeing at the border. But really, the chairman called this hearing in large measure to talk about whether we ought to close those three consulates that he discussed and actually my colleague mr. Mica is calling for the closure of all nine consulates in mexico. And what i didnt get from you mr. Harris or you mr. Judd was the nexus between that discussion and the discussion of the level of violence that youve been talking about. How does it cut starting with you mr. Harris, how would closing these three consulates that chairman is talking about how would that cut on the violent situation there . Well, sir, first let me say im not familiar with the criteria that was referenced on the office and the pay systems and all that. Ill just say that in terms of my business, our relationship with mexico and our ability to protect and promote u. S. Interests is critically important to Border Security. I routinely traveled to mexico, work with the state department, and all of the country team in mexico city. So having our people deployed in a way that we can best protect and promote the interest of the United States is critically important. Mr. Judd. When i came to testify i came to testify about violence on the border and keeping u. S. Personnel safe. As far as mexican consulates go, i have no idea how to do that. All i can tell you is i am an expert in Border Security. And what comes across the border and how we can better promote operations to effectively secure the border. And thats what im trying to give testimony on. So thats kind of a separate discussion that you gentlemen are giving us. But i appreciate your coming and those are sobering comments that both of you gave us. In february of this year in fact right at the time of the spike of the violence at mat morse area, i spent some time with my dear friend and colleague congressman mont vaila in south texas. In fact, we were right across he border at the time. Said is thats not s keeping the bugs from coming across to our crops. Companies operate in mexico. My state of pennsylvania exports 3. 44 billion dollars worth of zpwoods to mexico every year. So that accounts for 246,409 pennsylvania jobs. I learned about factories where mexican officials assemble products. Most are u. S. Owned and employ american managers and engineers many of whom work in the mexican factories as managers by day and then come back over the border to places like mcallen, texas, where they live. Our working relationship with mexico is enormously important to our Economic Security and as i witnessed the work of the consulates is vital to that mission. Now, ms. Saarnio, in your testimony you recognize the importance of the blavet bilateral relationship between the u. S. And mexico. You stated two way trade topped 500 billion in 2014 with 80 of that crossing the u. S. Mexico land border. How do u. S. Consulates facilitate our trade elationship with mexico . Our consulates are very active with the Business Community on the ground in dealing with both Security Issues and also in promoting the trade and the business that goes back and forth. The u. S. And mexico share this very close north American Trading relationship but its gotten deeper in the last 20 years of after nafta. I have to say that i think our consulates, besides providing daily contact with the American Companies there, they support business documents need to be signed they need to be note rised they need to help moving freight across the border if something gets stopped because of the lack of paperwork or something theyll work with them to help facilitate and make the trade more efficient on a daily basis. Our consulates are active in working with that and my understanding the Business Community is supportive of an active presence by the consulates in those regions. Thank you. I yield back. Now recognize the gentleman from texas for 5 minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I thank my colleague from pennsylvania in highlighting the problems of insects on the border its a real problem and something we deal with all the time. I represent over 820 miles of to border from eagle pass el paso. We represent all of the texas border so this is something we engage in on a weekly basis. I dont have much time. So my first question to you mr. Judd im going to try to keep our little at the timea at the time tight. We still have time here in discussing the violence on the border and the danger on the border and branding on the nterior. Without the man power on the border we cant properly we just physically cant secure the border. We need men and women on the border to do that. When you have specific areas like presid yo where the Living Conditions are absolutely horrendous, its nearly impossible to keep agents in that area. O we need to do something. Some of the locations have changed their status. Ive seen agents leave or transfer out. Some was an effort to save money. Is the union open to some form of solution to allow an agent to move up in terms of preference if they spend a hardship posting . Weve been pushing the agency from that and they havent reciprocated. I think well have more conversations on that. Mr. Starr, ambassador moser one i think to thank you all and your organizations and your predecessors for what you do. Spent nine years as an undercover officer in the c. I. A. I was in some really dangerous places like pakistan, afghanistan, and ive been in embassies that have been bombed, shot up, where thousands of people have marched on it. And because of the work of your had two organizations you mama hurds youngest son come home. Exas a. M. Built a 110,000 seat stadium. Theres expertise we can rely on there. But one of the problems that i actually have and when i appreciate that you all do with the travel advisory in mexico, the advisory in mexico is the only advisory where you split up by state. I think that shows the important relationship that we have with mexico. Or border and we can facilitate the movement of goods and services statement. Thats super important. So juarez, 2008, murder capital of the world. 2010, half as many murders as detroit and new orleans. Theres less murders in oak naga in 2014 than there were in baltimore. So my concern is when we talk about mexicos a big place. 0 of the violence is in 20 of the country thats five states. New break that down into municipalities, its 20 out of hundreds. And i get frustrated when we try to talk about mexico as one place. And its not. So im just looking to work with you all on making sure that the travel advisories in some of these cities are reflective of the needs on the grounds. I made a comment when i was in oak naga ive been in pretty dangerous places and thats not one of them. The importance of trade and Services People going back and forth is so good for our country for both countries. Mr. Starr your comments, please. Thank you, congressman. Specifically to that topic. Both oseack and the warnings that we work with from each individual consulate and the Country Councils and City Councils that we have look specifically at the areas. I think this is one of the arguments. American citizens can go to that website and look at whats going on in that immediate area. I recognize that yes sometimes the consular warning sheets are a rather blunt tool because we have i think over 25 million americans a year visit mexico and we do have to give them sort of honest open advice. But we also further break it down for those people that are in specific areas. We try to do that. But i will take your concerns back with me. Thank you very much. And my last point im already over time i apologize. Please communicate to the members of the Foreign Service, theyre sometimes overlooked at the difficulty in their job. Theyre doing it in hard places. Theyre working hard every single day to export our soft power around the world and they do it in tough places. I recognize that. I have the honor of serving side by side with many of those. Thank you for what you do please communicate that back. I now recognize ms. Kelly for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairperson. Everyone here today would agree that the Mexican Government must work to enhance security in their country. The Violent Crime that takes place in some places in mexico taken into conversation what my colleague just said often resonates across the border here in the United States. And simply cannot be ignored. We know that american firearms often turn up at crime scenes in mexico. N march, the a. F. T. Reported that guns traced between 2009 and 2014, 70 originated in the United States. Mr. Harris, im sure that customs and Border Patrol encounters many guns at the border. Do you agree that the consistent flow of firearms from the u. S. Across the border to mexico is a serious problem . Yes, maam. I had responded to a previous question. I think our men and women do a great job on southbound inspections. The personnel who are doing some times random southbound inspections are oftentimes augmented by Border Patrol agents detailed over to assist with that effort. And the firmse that are seized during southbound operations without the aid of intelligence or investigative information are largely due to the hard work of the men and women. However we do not have the same Technology Going southbound than nortsdzbound. If we had the same capabilities , probably help us to do a etter job. Between texas and arizona alone youve got 12,000 gun shops along the border with mexico a lot of these gun shops provide weapons that feed into organized crime in mexico. So we really need the support of the United States. Ms. Saarnio, do you agree with that american firearms are contributing to the violence in mexico or some parts . I think the problem of olence in mexico and acrossing the United States is a problem with we share with mexico. We share a common border and many issues. Theyre multifaceted. I think we have to deal with problems on our side and the mexicans have to deal with their problems on their side of the border. But i am sure that if we were to deal with some of these issues in our side, they would be appreciated in mexico. This is a tremendous problem because one of the principle tactics used by criminals to obtain these weapons is straw purchasing and i know my colleagues have already raised this issue and im proud to join Ranking Member cummings and congresswoman carolinaen maloney to introduce the resolution. I feel this bill will close this glaring loophole and would help with the issue. So thank you. And i yield back. I would like to make a note here that the from Homeland Security customs and Border Patrol this is the number of seizures of guns on the 60. West border in 2015, thats it. If you look at the a. T. F. Statistic, some 8,200 traces in a category called u. S. Source firearms. I want to be careful because u. S. Source under the definition refers to those firearms that were determined by a. T. F. To be manufactured in the United States or legally imported into the United States by an federal firearms licensee. So legal transportation of it, they may have been used in a crime. But if they were manufactured in the United States they would also fall into that statistic. So i think it is a little bit high. And if anybody on this panel is concerned about the illegal flow of guns, then youve got to look first at what the Obama Administration did in fast and furious. And this panel, this Oversight Committee asked for the documents from the state department and from others about the from the department of justice about fast and furious. Did the Administration Work with us in an open and candid way . No. Did the administration provide those documents to congress . No. We had to take them to court. In fact, that is still pending because the government and through the department of justice knowingly and willingly gave the drug cartels nearly 2,000 weapons. So we can drag up mr. Holder and other people in the Obama Administration but they gave out nearly 2,000 ak47s to the drug cartels and we want to look at that. We had to hold the torn general in contempt of congress. We had to go to the courts. We still dont have those documents. So for people to say were worried about the guns going back and forth lets look at what our government did fro provide the drug cartels those weapons. That is an invest gage this committee will continue. And its one of the most outrageous things to happen. It shouldnt start with our government knowingly giving those weapons to the drug cart else. Thanks, everybody for their indulgence. I now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate your passion on this issue. I want to talk a little bit about Human Trafficking and human smuggling. I want to tie it into the Border Crossing cards. I have a question. What are the risks of these thieves that are able to duplicate these cards . Is that possible . The 11,500 that were made . Because i have a card here as well. And its a card that i use here in d. C. Sometimes ill use it to vote, other times i just show it and im kind of granted access here. So help me understand. Can that be duplicated . Sir, they have features in them that make it very difficult to do a photo subtuition or duplicate them. I think the other thing thats important to remember on the cards that were stolen that anybody thats actually trying to do illegal activity would not want to use one of those cards that was stolen because every one of those is registered electronically as a stolen card now. So if they show it it automatically ring as bell. And these people are going to be doubley inspected. So we have a high degree of confidence that the cards that were stolen, the majority have been recovered. Those that havent been very difficult to duplicate and likely that the cartels or anybody else engaged in illegal business would not want to use them. And it can be turned off remotely. So are we under the impression, is this something we think go on record saying those are 100 inoperable . They will not be used by someone trying to smuggle human beings . Is that fair to say . I would think, sir, that nobody thats in the smuggling business is going to try to go legally across the border would want to use one of those cards thats enterrd as stolen. And that, as i say, that would raise the profile. Its not just something that they could use as an i. D. Card or passing through anything. These cards now, once theyve been deactivated so to speak, if thats the right terminology, if theres no way they can use them, for whatever purpose. Sir, i wouldnt go that far. I think along the border where theres active inspection of them i think theyll be detected very quickly. I think people do use them for other purposes. But, again, if the photograph doesnt match and theyre very hard to do photo substitutions without destroying that card it would be very difficult. Mr. Judd, do you have any concern about those comments . No. The ports of entry, i dont work at the port of entry. I work for me it would be very difficult if somebody took a card, like for instance my card. If somebody took my card and i encountered them in the interior theres no way for me to run that through the checks that mr. Starr im satisfied with that answer. In moving forward, have we pretty much solidified that this mistake is now moving forward, this wont happen again . Is that something weve looked into as far as how this was broken, how this was stolen . I visited the transit if a stilt that they went out of, sir. Talked with the employees there. There had been a very hard look at how we were moving those cards. We did look closely at it. I think our sheets are still accurate that hijacking and car jaking can still be a problem in mexico. We have to watch out for that. But we are taking additional measures to try to ensure that his doesnt occur again. We were able to pass early on training for Border Security. That piece of legislation is now law. This is a very technologically advanced even in our own research here were showing, some of your reporting showing these arent just ma and pa. These have been assimilated into these large organizations. We want to do everything we can to shut that down at the border. With that i yield back. The gentleman will yield. How many Border Crossing cards are there h in circulation . Do you have any idea . Millions. Right . Millions, sir. Certainly tense of millions. So the idea is that Mexican Nationals can get a Border Crossing card that is valid for 24 hours in the United States . Its a day pass, basically. By state its there are distances that they can go within a certain state on them and other limitations. So you can basically go for the day, go shopping and then come back across the border. But there are millions of them. Theres no exit program. Correct . Do you have any way mr. Judd are you scanning how many of the Border Crossing cards that are used daily are scanned in exit . That im aware of, none. How many are scanned on the inbound . All of them. So we have statistics about how many come into the United States and we have zero statistics on how many actually leave the United States. Whats the consequence of being caught in the United States with just a Border Crossing card . Next to nothing. So we give out millions of passes. We have no exit program. We have no way of verifying. And theres no consequence if you do it anyway. So thousands of them get stolen. Im still worried that theyre used as a flash pass. Im just here for the day even though you can only go 25 miles into the United States, in other places i think its up to 40 miles. But its not supposed to be your free entry into the United States of america. And yet its just inexcusable to have no exit program. Y apologies. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And good afternoon to all of you. Im significant here and i know that were talking about consulate construction. But i just came home from the u. S. Virgin islands now along with puerto rico considered the fourth border. And we had a weekend of violence that was profound. With a young man being gunned down in a parking lot while his wife went to pick up their child. 100 shots being fired in the early evening in another part of the town. And then the following morning in front of a high school at 9 00 in the morning granted it was a saturday another individual being gunned down. And i understand that a lot of this is, one, due to economic nonopportunity. Failing schools. But also because of the guns and drugs that come through borders like my own. And when i look at in 2007 that the u. S. And mexico began what i hear is called the marIda Initiative which according to the state department is an initiative with four general goals, to disrupt criminal organizations, strengthen judicial institutions, improve border infrastructure, and technology, and improve stability in the mexican community. I wish the places like puerto rico and the u. S. Virgin islands had an initiative with their own government like that. But when i see some of the bills that are coming through and the lack of appropriations and the lack of support im getting from many of my colleagues on that, it makes me question if any of that isr going to happen. But i know were here supposed to talk about consulate construction. And progress in mexico. And so i digegressed and i will get back on topic to what i was supposed to be talking about. I was fortunate to go with my colleague mr. Chafe its to mexico in may. I was interested to see how borders operate. And also the amount of work and cooperation thats done in agriculture as well in places like between mexico and the United States. And the amount of trade and consumer goods and commerce that happens in these areas. And so we went and we visited the site where the new Mexico City Embassy was supposed to is supposed to be built. And i understand that there are a lot of consulates in this area because of the amount of commerce and trade along with individuals that go on in these areas. So i wanted to ask and i think mr. Moser you would be the appropriate person. The three consulates in dangerous areas near the border, tee juana, wawhars, monterey, theyve all been recently completed in 2008, 2011, and 2014 respectively. Is that correct . Yes. And all of these three consulates meet Security Standards . Maam, i cannot build a building without mr. Starrs explicit approval. The four remaining consulates are in the site acquisition phase for new locations. Is that correct . Thats correct. As for the completion timelines, when we travel to mexico city, they were told that the mat mar os consulate was estimated to be completed in 1e9 and mexico city 2020. Do we have an idea when the government will give that . Maam, we are working with our seller in order to obtain the clean site. And we are working currently on a timeline for the delivery of that and we expect it to be sometime in the fall of 2016. And can you explain how state is responding to the delays in that aside from just working with the seller . If you mean how rear were responding i would say this. We looked for ten years over a decade at 20 different sites in mexico city to find one that would meet our very robust and by this hearing everyone acknowledges very important diplomatic platform that we have in mexico city. When we finally identified from our seller the naveo blanco site, which is a short couple mile distance from our current location, we realized that this would actually fulfill all of our programic needs from providing a platform for our Law Enforcement agencies to our traditional diplomatic activities to even providing space for a Benjamin Franklin lie br which is very important for our Public Diplomacy outreach. Yes, we have yes there have been delays in acquiring this site. But we still feel that within this time line that this is sufficient for us to build a building from the to build a building from the time we receive the site and get it up and operational. And that construction timeline is around 50 months. And when i talked with the people on the site primarily one of the main reasons why this was such a great site is because the ability to buy land of that size from multiple sellers is almost impossible p. Yes, maam. That is correct. Because and one of the things is i want to note here, you know, it would have been possible of course to find a greenfield site if we wanted to be well outside of mexico city. But to the extent that we need to engage with our colleagues in the Mexican Government and in businesses, we need to be in an urban location that really mirrors our present diplomatic platform. Thank you. Ive exhausted my gracious and generous time. And thank you mr. Chair for your generosity. Thank you. Now recognize the gentleman from georgia for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me begin mr. Judd with you. Is it your understanding i know you said you dont work at the ports of eentrifment but is it your understanding that the bcc cards can be used by individuals illegally to get into the country . The bcc cards, if somebody is not properly looking and inspecting who the person is, for instance if you come through the port of entry and present your card and they dont look at you and they just swipe it and its a good card and they pass it through, absolutely they can do that. But the cards really are, as mr. Starr said, theyre very good cards. Theyre very difficult to duplicate. But if you have somebody elses card and they dont properly inspect you, you could get into the United States. Is there any evidence that that has ever heaped . Not to my knowledge yet, sir. No. So you would say that no one has ever entered this country with a stolen card . Sir, that would be very hard to say absolutely. Yes, it would. I would say it would be very difficult. It would be because from what i understand that has happened and there are times inspectors dont check the cards properly. So theres certainly are occasions where, as the chairman brought up earlier, theyre used as flash cards. How often does an individual just flash the card and theyre waved on into the country . Sir, i can only tell you i spent about three hours at the san eseed ro Border Crossing with the Homeland Security personnel that were there. I cant tell you but i was impressed with how good they were. Did they know you were there . Yes, they did. That probably has something to do with it. Is it true that the c. B. P. Was nly able to read the cards r. F. I. D. About two thirds of the time . Im sorry sir, i dont know. Its my understanding that the cards dont always work properly. So my question ultimately is coming to if the cards dont always work properly, then the stolen cards could still be used. Youre nodding your head. I didnt notice i was doing that but it was an accident, i guess. Im not a port of entry expert but again ill defer to my area of responsibility and what im focused on, which is targeting the criminal network. I will tell you through investigative means i wont talk about here were getting much better at identifying and routeding out those individuals who are using the Border Crossing cards for criminal purposes. We have identified, as a starting point, in south texas a little bit less than a thousand individuals, probably about half of those are border crossers, and were systemically removing the cards from those individuals when they cross the border. So i think with the technology that you all have supported us with, were much better at being able to identify the people who are using the cards for illicit purposes the versus for legitimate reasons. So none have any awareness of the rfid cards not working. No, sir. Im not aware that theyre not working. I think we have a very high degree of confidence in the card and a very high success rate with that card. Ok. Mr. Starr, do you have any idea how many or any of you for that matter how many u. S. Citizens have disappeared, have been kidnapped, abducted . I dont have the figures in front of me, sir. No. Who would have those figures . Sir, i have some figures from last year and this year. If were talking about u. S. Citizens, we believe from the report that is we have that in 2014 we had a total case of 146 kidnappings reported u. S. Citizens. And in this year, through september 8, weve had 64 cases reported. What about other crimes . Other crimes are also down in terms of Violent Crimes we look at murder cases. Last year we had there were about 100 murder cases reported involving american citizens. This year were counting 89 so far to date. Ok. Is there any evidence of americans being targeted . Not to my knowledge. No. Thank you. I know my time is up. I would just like to add that i have put forth mr. Judd mentioned a while ago about the horrible crime committed in montana after a person was in your hands. I put forth a bill track which stands for tracking reauvending alien criminals, specifically the sex offenders. I would urge my colleagues to check that out. And cosponsor it. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. And we dont have the necessarily the proper panelist to deal with this part of it but to lead on to a follow up to what you said. One of the most infuriating parts of this are the people who are here illegally and commit crimes only to be released back into the interior of the United States of america. For fiscal year 2013 and 2014 the Obama Administration released roughly 66,000 criminal aliens. According to enforcement removal operations there are 9 25,000 people with final orders to be removed from the country who have not they havent been removed. There are people that are here illegally and then there are people here illegally and they commit a crime. And to not focus on those people and make sure that they leave the country and when they do, to find that a huge percentage of them get picked up and come back across the border, i mean, how do you how do you look people in the eye and say 925,000 people are here illegally or ordered to leave the country and they did not . And then you add on top of that the number of other criminals. Theyre in our possession. We have them. They were caught, they were convicted. And we said go ahead youre released. And we have horrific tories many just about every single state you can think about. Its just horrendous. Were now pleased to recognize mr. Quare who lives in texas. Hes very dedicated on this issue. We appreciate him. Mr. Chairman, thank you again for allowing me to be back in my former committee. Thank you, and thank the Ranking Member also. I want to thank the witnesses from the state department, thank you for the good job that you do. I know its a difficult job. But we appreciate it. My good friend Robert Harris who used to live in laredo. Always a good pleasure to see you. And all the good work you did down there. Mr. Judd all your men and women that work for Border Patrol. That work along with you. They do a good job. Thank anybody on the border as border my brother is a sheriff down there. So he and i weve lived there all my life. Like i said, i drink the water, i breathe the air down there. My family lives there. I go back every weekend back to the border. So i do want to say thank you for all the work that you all do. Again mr. Charnle i do know theres a couple issues. And i think theres some things that i would like to work with ou as we talked a while ago. Danger pay, something that congress should be involved with this issue. My understanding is you already let some of your employees know, you havent let us know but i can tell you that congress will probably have a say so on this. Not that we want to micromanage but i think its part of at least the appropriations process will be involved. The issue of cost of construction. And i understand, ive been to the one in mexico. I understand what theyre doing over in laredo and other parts of the world. I think the cost of construction is extremely high. Sometimes people i think they charge us just because were the federal government they charge us more. I understand all the arguments about security and youve got to do this. I understand all that but i think theyre high. On the issues of closing the consulate mr. Chairman i think we definitely disagree on that. I dont think we ought to close the consulates. Let me try to address, if you allow me just a few minutes beyond my five minutes. I think everybody is gone now except you and i. Let me talk about the border. I want to go from the border and then go into mexico. If you look at the f. B. I. Statistics, the border crime rate or the National Crime rate is about 4. 5 murders per hundred thousand. Laredo, my hometown, is about 1. 5 murders per hundred thousand. You take the border crime rate, its lower than the National Crime rate. Using f. B. I. Stats, murder, assaults, rapes, name them. If you look at the top ten cities with the highest murder rates in the u. S. , none of them are on the border. None of them are on the border. If you look at one of the mgos looked at the top 50 cities with the highest homicides per 100,000, and if you look at it you have san pedro this is from the year 2011 to 2014. Umber one is honduras, honduras, acalpulco, number three. The number one was about 171 murders per 100,000. Then you go on sorry if theres any of my colleagues. San louis was number st. Louis was number 19, detroit number 22. Then you had juarez who the numbers have gone down number 27. Then you had nuevo laredo number 24. Then baltimore number 40 and go down to mexico on that. So again i would ask you to look at some of these numbers because theres always the reality and the perception. And being on the border, i will be the first to say there are problems like any other city. But its not the way some people pabet it paint it to be. Travel warnings. Again, if we go based on travel warnings we pulled out the travel warnings that the state department has. Yes, i do see mexico. But i do see so many other countries where theres travel warnings. And if we go on the basis of travel warnings, i think we probably have to close consulates theres twoandahalf pages of countries that we probably have to include, including one of the ones that were dealing with this week or maybe i just saw a note that we might postpone the israel issue. Even the West Bank Gaza theres a travel warning there on that so i can go on twoandahalf pages of countries if we happen to go on that. Why do we need consulates on that even in places like mexico . Two reasons. One is the trade and relation that is we have. But the other one has to do with immigration itself first. Before i go on that let me talk about mexico. E ore we did plan merida, in we worked with president gaza, president bush, and i hope will soon be the ambassador to mexico i think you might know her. She will be a great ambassador to mexico. We were given mexico 36 million a year while we give certain countries like israel 3. 1 billion a year. And here is mexico, which is one of our greatest trading partners. Mr. Chairman, i think you highlighted some of the numbers. But let me talk about laredo where you and im sorry i couldnt be there. I was bringing my little girl up to washington. But laredo for example handles about 40 of all the trade between u. S. And mexico. 12,000 trailers a day that we have there. If you put the drucks line them up, up and down the border, on a day basis, all the trucks laredo on one day, it would go from laredo to a little bit south of san antonio. You put all the trucks on a monthly basis going through just laredo, it will go from laredo all the way to la paz, blizzia. And if you go on the number of trucks that pass laredo in a year, they almost will wrap around the world twice. So it gives you the half trillion dollars that we have in trade every day shows you why mexico is so important to us. And by the way, one more for the folks that want to push mexico away. If an import comes in from china it has about a 4 American Parts on it. If something comes in from canada, will have about a 25 parts. But if something comes in from mexico, an import, it will have a 40 American Parts with it. So that shows that the connection that we have with mexico. Trade. Let me go into immigration. Part of it. Robert, you and i spoke a lot mr. Harris we spoke a lot about the unaccompanied kids that came in last year on that. Weve seen the numbers gone down theyre about half. But again, we can add more Border Patrol. And i agree, i want to see more men and women in blue which are the customs officers. But if you look at something thats happened, ive always said that we cant play defense on the one yard line which is called the u. S. Border. We spend about 18 billion for Border Security ools across the nation. If we just play a little different defense on the 20 yard line and last year the appropriations we added i think we worked with you all, we added about 80 million to help mexico secure the southern border with guatemala. We always talk about southern border but we ought to look at the southern border with mexico. If you look at it, from october 14 to april 2015, mexico apprehended over 92,000 Central American migrants. 20,000 more than we do in the u. S. 70,000. So if we would have if mexico would have allowed those 92,000, Border Patrol would have been dealing with those folks a lot more. So i do understand that we have issues in mexico. Theres no ifs or butses. We need to work with them. Construction cost is agree are a little high. We can work on that. Closing the consulates, bad mistake. Danger pay i want to work with you because i think we need to talk about there are certain parts of mexico where i think they deserve danger pay. So thank you so much for allowing me to be back in my former committee. And to all the witnesses thank you so much for all the good work that you do. Now recognize the gentleman from wisconsin for five minutes. I have another hearing so i hope i dont repeat some questions. I want to point out that overall were highlighting mexico here. Just reviewing the murder rates around the country mexico is far from the most violent country in the world. You have jamaica or el salvador, or honduras which is four times the murder rate of mexico. But mexico does have a high murder rate. I think its about four times, over four times the american rate. Five times i would say four times the american rate. I wonder if some of you could maybe comment on the differences in some cities compared to other cities. And whether you think it is right now particularly dangerous in these cities with the higher rates themselves. Sir, i think the embassy in mexico city and the different types of agencies that are represented there closely follow where we have rising narco trafficking drug violence. And i think thats what fuels a lot of the murder rates. As we said earlier, 25 million americans visit mexico every single year. Very few of those people have any type of problem there. Tourism is a very big business. Were ah cutely aware that certain places where the drug cartels either one is trying to take over another or theres a split in the organization and thats what happened in matamores over the last year essentially, the violence can certainly spike. I think we do try to differentiate between those places where the violence is going up and make sure thats reflected in our warnings and tell people that. I think we try to be accurate about what the real threats are to americans there and give them the general idea. But it is not a level of violence that is all over mexico. It is in different cities and primarily where the drug traffickers are contesting territory. Facility in acalpulco. We have a facility . Alpucko . We have a Consular Agency there. Not a consulate. We have a consular agent there. Thats an example of one pulling up that looks to be a very dangerous city. Could you let me know . Is that like some American Cities where overall its dangerous but a lot of areas that are ok . Because that is one just pulling it up that is just i think the murder rate is like three times that of milwaukee where and thats not a very well run city. But you feel you feel our people are safe in a city like that if you stick in the right areas . Sir, we provide guidance in our travel advisories by state and even by city. And there is specific guidance for acalpulco. Im not sure what it is right now. Typically we advise people stay off the streets at night. Stay closer to home. If we know of a particular type of violence thats going to occur well issue a warning. So i think we think its manageable. But we do have to monitor the situation and we have to monitor the risk and take measures to mitigate against those risks when they happen. Just by point of reference. Of all the americans working in mexico right now or for the american government, how many work there overall and how many have been victims say of some sort of crime in the last year . We have 2800 employees that includes our locally engaged staff as well. I dont have a number for how many have been involved in crimes. But its minimal. I dont know that we have any we have those at hand right now. I think over since 2010 we have had two americans that were killed. Since 1985. Since 19 5 two americans have been killed. Since when . Since 1985. So two americans have been killed when we have 3,000 employees weve had about two murders in the last 30 years is what youre saying. Ok. Thank you. I yield the rest of my time. I thank the gentleman. Few kind of tieup questions. Ambassador moser, in mexico city, the last number we had is that we were planning in the new embassy and i recognize its behind schedule we were planning on 1 thourk 335 desks the cost had gone from the original estimate of 577 Million Dollars to 943 Million Dollars. Any adjustments in those or are those still the numbers that youre working with . Sir, those are correct. But i will note that the original figure, the 550 Million Dollar figure that we initially reported to congress did not include site acquisition costs. And thats the reason. So the real difference is about 70 o versus 8900 and that does reflect the 40 growth in staffing. And its real dollars. Every time we spend dollars here were pulling must be out of american peoples pockets to give it to somebody else. So the concern is you have a 200 million growth there. Were looking at roughly just shy of 250 million for the building of the construction of matamores and the naveo laredoo facilities. Thats a huge amount of dollars going out the door when you consider that matamores is looking at 103 desks and nuevo laredo is 88 desks and were going to spend a quarter of a billion dollars. If i could make a comment i too am very, very concerned. And that is and we are always focused on the cost. But it is true that it does take more money to per capita per desk to build a smaller facility than it does a large one. Because as ive said the first point of all of this is your requirements. What do you have to do . And its easier to expand a building and make it bigger to get a per desk charge than it is. And in mont ray. Let me jump in here. The same country. In mont tray 179 million for 199 desks but matamores which is 103 desks is 191. It depends on the requirements for the various locations. And a smaller number can you name any situation where the cost has gone down . Yes, sir. Ok. What is it . There are places where its surprisingly inexpensive. But wheres a place where the cost estimate went down . That came in under budget or even on budget . I will have to get back to you. Because we looked at this. The reason that we are going to continue to focus on this is every single thing weve done since the time i was elected, since the president took office, the same time, every one of these facilities has gone up in cost. Every one of them. And theyre not even close. We didnt come up with those estimates. The state department came up with those estimates and now were seeing these double digit percentage go up by the billions. By the billions. Let me keep going because we are trying to wrap this up. In nuevo laredo, when i went and visited the site beautiful site. I can understand the location, the proximity to laredo, texas. I get it. And i do believe that they need a new facility. The one theyre in currently is old. I understand that. But on that site there were living quarters that were potential living quarters for the consulate general. The recommendation from the people on the ground who are working there was to keep that facility. And yet the o. B. O. Said no were not going to keep that facility and they destroyed it. I have questions on follow up as to why was it destroyed . Why didnt it meet the specificications . And number two is have you figured out and determined where the consulate general is actually going to live in nuevo laredo . Sir, thats a very good line of inquiry. Let me explain that. In that particular instance we had a smallish site, somewhere around i think a little less than five acres. In order for us to situate the building on the site and have all the required setbacks and security requirement that is we would have to have, according to our overseas Security Standards, that we had to dem olish the existing residence on the site. Now, where will that person go . We will obtain appropriate housing for the principal officers. And thats what we do in countries all over the world. Heres the concern. The cost has grown. Its under construction. The site has been but this is a there are only 88 desks. Its a smaller facility. The consulate general and his facility and his ability or her ability to conduct work on behalf of the United States is pivotal. And here we are into september of 2015 and you all havent figured out where hes going to live. Its a pretty big important question. So well, he does have a residence now, sir. Yes, understood, on the old compound. Buff to travel, as i did we had Something Like 30 armed guards escort us from the one facility to the next facility. You had to have the Mexican National army lead us in a convoy with some rather large guns and what not ready to go at any moment. Its a very dangerous situation. So i just dont understand why were this far into it. Because there is going to be a cost. 154 n we look at million, that doesnt include the site acquisition or development or purchase of something for the consulate general. Does it . No, sir, it doesnt. Have you informed congress that this number is shy of what it needs to be . Sir, we usually find principal officers or Fund Principals officers residence out of our leasehold account and we do have a dialogue with our appropriators about how much these individual residences cost. It just its amazing that you get down there and see that theres no plan and no other than were going to continue to look at it. To suggest that they took ten years to try to find a facility to locate to Mexico City Embassy. Thats an embarrassment. Sir, to find a big enough site where we can put a facility that really accomplishes the diplomatic goals you bought a site thats toxic. And by the Mexican Government its so toxic you cant build there. And there are hundreds of people who are going to suffer and live in inadequate working quarters. Again, i want to try to wrap up here. Will the new danger pay when will this new program be implemented . Has it been announced . It has been announced, sir. But i will turn that over to my colleagues. When does that take place . The announcements went out to the post i believe last week. Congressman, i appreciate how much youre concerned about the danger pay. I can have staff come up here and work with your staff and explain how we do this and how we grade these things, if that would be helpful. Well try it again. You and i tried it in a classified setting and it didnt go so well. Dit it . We had our differences. So this is not a new topic that i sprung on you here. You knew i was going to bring that up. But i think if we could show you detailed how we actually look at each post, what the that up. But i think if we could show you detailed how we actually look at each post, what the ratings are, what we do to go into it. I think i look forward to seeing that formula. For those men and women who work in mexico, who have loved ones that are here in the United States and their husband or wife ourt daughter is working in mex cooned their pages got cut. I cant wait to play that video. Shame on you. Sir, ive walked that grown ive talked with those people. I look at our security every single day. There is nobody that is more concerned with the security of our people overseas than i am. Their allowance i dont agree with you. I have talked to those people. Dont tell me dont get on your high horse because you just cut their pay. I didnt do that you did. And when i went down there i didnt know that this was an issue. They brought it up. And we sat them down in the room. Its not safe. When i talk to the people who were there working in that facility its so dangerous they cant go outside. I start every single day looking at the threats to our people worldwide. And youre getting mexico wrong. Youre getting mexico wrong. No, sir, im not. And ill bring staff up. You can bring staff up all you want. I have been there, i have looked at those stats ticks. I talked to the people there. You cut their pay. I think its wrong. Both e people on the both sides of the aisle think its wrong. It was petty. Its cut morale. It was unnecessary and i think it should be changed. I really do. Its not for a lock of appropriations. Its the management of the state department. Thats the question here. Thats the question. Were going to dont to work on that. There are a lot of other issues i do believe we have to engage in meaningful immigration reform. There has to be a legal lawful way to get here. If you dont fix Legal Immigration youre never going to solve this problem. One of the issues we need to ork on is asylum reform. Identify been out there with them. We chase people coming across the border. You can watch them all day long coming across. And these people apprehend them in a very professional manner. They work hard. Its hard very dangerous work cant thank them enough for the good work that the people do and the customs and Border Patrol. Ero has an exceptionally difficult mission. Ice is doing some very important work. There are good people doing work all across the border. And my point is with those people working in the state department, they too have a vital mission. And its just unacceptable to us. Mind boggling that they would knowingly and willingly cut their pay telling them that its more safe when there are conditions there that are not conducive. To say that they can just go across the border to get to a dairy queen, that doesnt cut it. Thats not ooptseptable. I appreciate you for participating today. This hearing stands adjourned. Today nasa as nauts discuss their work, cooperation with other countries and whether a 2030 mission to mars is possible. Scott kelly will speak from the International Space station. Live coverage begins at 9 a. M. Oonch. This week, my grandfather would have shot me. Seven years ago, the discovered that her grandfather was nazi commandant. Brian you wrote, i am the granddaughter of a mass murderer. How hard is that . Jennifer to find out was difficult, but now to live with it it is ok. A lot of time has passed and i came to terms with the fact. Today i think that, yes, it is a big responsibility, but it is not a burden anymore. Brian your book, called my grandfather would have shot me, has a bunch of characters in your life and i want to put it on the screen, the chart that shows your family, and have you briefly explain. You can see up on the top is your grandfather on the right. Amon goeth, who is he . Jennifer he is known to millions of people because he was depicted in the movie schindlers list. But, he was not a movie character. He was a real person and he was put on trial in poland after the war. He wason