Transcripts For CSPAN Washington This Week 20130706

House. We will talk about their influence, and i hope our speakers will tell us they were inenormous the influential. That is my hope. I already know they are. Someone said, there would be no cost to duchenne as it was written if we had not had George Washington, and there would read no George Washington without martha. Explain what you mean. Without him it is hard to imagine the constitution looking anything like it does. It is pretty terse because it is expected washington will fill in the gaps with his performance. In many ways martha is key. She gives him many things but not everything. She gives him social status. She is the wealthiest widow in virginia. Wealth, prominent, social status. She gives them a lot of comfort, stability. He always has her to rely on. He is a way for eight years. He goes back very briefly. She will spend time with him. She gives him many things. That is in this and all. She does not give him a son, and air to the throne. That is why you can trust him, because he has no one to give the presidency to. He says that. Here is what George Washington himself says in a first draft. He says, it is a little too personal. Divide robert and does not seem fit that my name should be perpetuated by the endearing and sometimes seducing channel of offspring. No child, no family, no earthly consideration could persuade me to accept this appointment. Trust me because i have nothing to get him this. I have no son to make george ii. I need to interrupt. Are you suggesting without George Washington we might have ended up a monarchy . I am suggesting they were worried about this. Only one has a son, adam. Thomas jefferson has no sons we know of. Madison, munro. Tell us of the president s who did not have a son. It goes back you rutherford the hayes. Here is what it says. These are quotes. Adams will work to install his sons as the lords of this country. Jefferson with daughters only can be trusted. Adams has sons who might succeed their father. Jefferson has no son. This is the surface of political discourse. This has to be the only time when having no son got them somewhere. It is not that martha did not give him a son. Martha had four children in five years with her first husband, so we know who the problem was. This is so interesting. Are you suggesting the American People deliberately voted for people who did not have sons because we were so afraid . Yes, it is in political discourse. It is even in the artwork. Take a look at this famous painting called the washington family. It shows george and martha and their stepgrandchildren. There is a kind of sadness. Behold the man who has everything, but no one is quite looking at each other. There is a coldness. There is an emptiness in the middle. He holed a man with no son. In the middle there is a rising sun, but it is not a son. This is the takehome lesson for the people. Behold no heir to the throne. You were telling me when the founders wrote in the eligibility ages they had this in mind. If you want to look at the constitution during the ford years, ford could have then for ever if washington had sought reelection. He could have been a version of mubarak. It is not whether he is going to step down but whether his son is going to succeed him or not. Think about india. Four years becomes 8. He might have been less inclined to leave if his son had been there saying, they there. Of the early president s, some had daughters, some had sons. He once with never left voluntarily. The first one with a son who voluntarily walks away is rutherford b hayes. The president s with waters and childless president s are more likely to give up power than those with sons. That is funny. I told you about four years in the constitution, and it becomes eight and not for ever because of the precedent set right George Washington. Let me tell you about Something Else. A president has to be 35 years old. What is that about . I think it is antidynasty. What type of person can get elected accept the famous son of a famous father. William pitt the younger was 21 when he entered parliament. He got it on his name, whereas 35 you got to have your own track record. Lower born men have a chance to rise. 20 five you have to be in the house of representatives. It turns out people who get there from an extremely young age turned out to be very politically connected. There are no birth certificate. He would later become governor of louisiana. He replaces andy jackson. He is the nephew of another congressman. He is dynastic. His name is william claiborne, and we have married martha Claiborne Roberts from louisiana. It is a great story. It was not his uncle who got him in. He works as a clerk in the continental congress, and he became good friends with the first clerk, and he wanted to run for office, and he said, you are in virginia. Forget it. If you really want to make something of yourself, go to tennessee. He leaves to go to the senate. There is nobody else in tennessee. The house is the judge of its own members. That would have been interesting. Then what happens, his one vote had as much clout as all of virginia and massachusetts because it went to the house of representatives. He stuck with jefferson. One month later he was made the governor of mississippi. He said, quick, get on to new orleans so you can hold onto this purchase. He has then in washington ever since. My mother was the most recent member of congress. Talk about whether the women in the first generation really did dabble in politics. Did they have a role . Were they really founders . Going to camp that summer was huge. It was not just valley forge. It was every winter, and she hated it. She was a prime object of hostage taking. She was key. She had organized the other officers wives. They would cook for the soldiers. George could be indiscreet. There was one day when he danced for three hours straight, so it was good martha was on hand. Washingtons genius was keeping the army together. He begged her to come to camp every year. She had a great sense of humor. She named a tomcat hamilton. Washington was a miserable, swampy place, so there is no separation between political life and social life. Dolly madison set up a separate place, and everyone had to go there. It happened fast that by his second term we had partisanship we had today. They would make the men sit down together and talk to each other. He has a federalist one night. Your point is so important. It was much more direct for them. Dolly madison was a politician. When madison ran the first time, he was no Thomas Jefferson. The embargo was on. Everyone hated it. They later said, i would have had a better chance against mr. Madison alone. He is challenged in his own party by the governor of new york. Clinton does quite well. Madison won handily, and later they said, mrs. Madison saved the administration for her husband. But for her, clinton would have won. I will ask this. Maybe we should valid this as a team. How does the public take to this grab of power . They did not like it with abigail. She was seen as a force for evil. Hasnt it been true right up to today that any time you have a first lady who allows the curtain up . A lot of it has to do with the personality of the individual. She did not hide it, but she was such a people person. Everyone loved her. She said that is because mrs. Madison loves everybody. I have read her mail. This is not true. She made everybody feel that way. She apparently was a genius with people so people could not hate her the way they do a lot of other women. You do not even have to be a meddling first lady. This is an almost madea like view of first ladies. They have powered no one elected her to have, although she helped out, and she has his ear, and she cannot be fired, and it makes people nervous. It is that sense that has not changed. Talk about that. This sense of unelected power, i have always sensed there is something mysterious. You talked about how the public voted with the idea of a monarchy in mind. I think there is a body politic that does not like the unelected wife going out and letting everyone know she has power. If they are demure about it, ok, but if they actually grabbed it. We want to bring the other running mate into the question. They really start to merge with the president having to running mates. We will get to that. The 19th amendment is going to change this. Just as you have three president s with very similar personas, George Washington, eisenhower, grant, you have different ways of laying the vice presidency. Playing vice presidency. Martha is not seen as intervening in politics. The party system has not emerged yet. She did lobby for veterans benefits. Maybe martha is more like laura bush, who is out there but is not seen as politically act does or partisan, trying to pick issues that are mom and apple pie and not partisan like health care. Other thing that happens is we impose our own ideas on people. With laura bush we thought, she is a librarian from texas and she is a sweet lady. She is the only first lady lady in history to go to the press room, grabbed the microphone herself, and she used it to call for the overthrow of the armys regime. It was hardly sweet and retiring. She wrote several op eds on it, a convened un conference, and spent time on issues that were hard core issues, but people did not see her that way. What is your sense on eisenhower and washington as a similar persona . I have hardly any sense of eisenhower at all. I love this story. Her mother lived in the white house, and her mother lived on the second floor. Like mrs. Obamas mother. This was a little different. Her mother would get up. The general did not sleep in that room, and she would phone her mother down the hall, and they would each be served a breakfast tray in bed, and they would talk on the telephone. Not in the press room. There are different ways of negotiating. Also keep in mind this is right after the war when the whole american ethic was pushing women out of the positions they had been in, trying to push them out of the public eye. It seems like whatever was going on in the background, womens rights were popular in the country, yet when Rosalynn Carter tried to take power, the public did not like it at all. Betty ford. The republicans were beside themselves. He said, i just knew i would be in so much trouble. He was fighting his party. They were saying, it is not popular with republicans. One sees this after the 19th amendment. Dwight eisenhower has a certain similarity. Maybe because wars create all sorts of social change anxiety for women. Abigail adams is karl rove. She is a political advisor and more like eleanor and hillary. Abigail can be out a little more because women are voting. Now there is a balanced ticket strategy. You have franklin and eleanor, and he appeals to the moderates, and he says, i cannot control her. Silently he is saying, you go, girl, because this is to for the price of one. She is appealing to voters. You have jerry in the middle. Betty ford energizes them and bill and hillary. I think that is basically true. Before that you had individual women. In lincolns circle one was credited with the campaign, and she was recognized as someone in that position. When the war was over and she tried to get compensated by congress she failed. The timing of some of these things and the second wave of feminism in the 70s and all that, who is the first election, who is the Vice President ial candidate . This new phenomenon of women voting, how is that going to play out . Franklin also put the first woman in his cabinet, frances perkins. This is the 19th amendment thing. We are not yet talking about the other possible president clinton, although we might be in a few years. We will have to talk a little bit about the gubernatorial level post19th amendment. You get women succeeding their husbands, nellie ross in wyoming, ferguson. Right after the amendment, talking about boggs in the house of representatives and lots of others good it is very interesting, these pairings that are made possible. Some even father daughter combinations. Very much products of womens suffrage, creating all sorts of new possibilities and configurations. When bill clinton can plausibly have as his wing man, as his successor, the person that will carry on his banner, hillary is more like Alexander Hamilton in some ways been truly martha washington. That does complicate the role of the of the running mates when women themselves are plausible senators, cabinet officers, president ial candidates. The 1996 election, no clinton versus bob dole, what happens . Senators Hillary Clinton and elizabeth dole. That is the direct outcome. You talked about how the founders, when they wrote the constitution, so worried about their mail male heirs. You cannot even dream that they they should be worrying about their wives and daughters. Jefferson who was also about women, and basically thought women met in the courts of europe too much, he wrote to his daughter about politics all of the time and expected her to the a political person engaged in politics. Martha washington was not seen as partisan, but she was incredibly partisan because she called jefferson one of the most despicable man she had ever heard of. I think there was a lot more political conversation and political advice and all of that going on. I think it is just that we do not wrap our minds around it because it seems so that cap martha is wearing, does her a disservice. [laughter] i think we do not see these women and that light. I think it is important because i think it is important that we understand the role they play in forming this country, and i think it is important for girls to know that, but i also think we should not just think that this is a modern phenomenon. It did only compost19th amendment come post19th amendment. Getting the 19th amendment required Political Engagement by women. It was in the immediate post founding. Postfounding period, when the two huge social movements that really were the big to movements that helped to perfect this union not that we are perfect, but we are better than we were were those two movements, abolition and suffrage grade they followed each other suffrage. They followed each other because women who became abolitionists, they understood people were being left behind. People like eliza hamilton in new york, starting an orphanage that is still working in new york as a place for troubled youth. They were the social reformers. That led them to abolition. They then went to abolition meetings they were shut out of because they were meeting because they were women, and that whether to suffrage. That happened very early on in the republic. Lucretia mott, 1822, was making abolition speeches into with delta look like in philadelphia. I will see you and raise you the 18th amendment. The prohibition amendment, which is not the happiest story, but the driving force behind it is the Women Christian Temperance Union who were trying to protect abused women. The idea was these men are drinking their wages on friday night, and coming home and beating their wives and kids, and these saloons which were these male dens of iniquity. I know this is the Historical Society, and it is good to go back in history, the but before i turn the questions over to the audience, lets come up to the 20th century. Let me ask each of you to tell the audience your favorite first lady in your lifetime and why. In that question, why to get at what the public today wants out of a first lady what do we want . Go for it. [laughter] so, sometimes there are these parallels with i say, eisenhower looks a lot to me like George Washington. When i see barack obama, i think about it lincoln. Tall, skinny, constitutional lawyer from illinois who gives a great beach speech. An epic historical figure. Mary todd, not so much a heroine, very smart i have never met them, but i am a big Michelle Obama fan. Maybe it is because she is a lawyer and an amazing role model and a mom. I think it is epic and historic him and she has navigated things in a brilliant way. Judged by historical standards, they could be on track for rushmore. [laughter] she has not been a first lady who lets us know how influential she is politically. She has been demure about that. She is funny about it. She does a good job of deflecting it with humor. She also chooses her issues, and she is careful about it, almost as if she has studied the women before her. The truth is it is very hard most of our president s have been governors. Particularly in recent years. When you are first lady of the state, you get used to it. You have some experience before you come in. She really has barely been in politics. She made that one remark, i feel, was taken wrongly about this is the first time in my adult life that i have been proud of the country. We all say things when we are talking live without any speech where we get our words in the wrong order. I think the reaction to that was so strong that she realized that she had to be very careful. Who is your favorite . Part of it is, everybody is so different. Or me to do that, it is still kind of partisan. The first lady i knew best by far was lady bird johnson. I am a great admirer of lady bird johnson. Not that we have the johnson tapes, which i am nerdy enough to listen to all the time, you see her influence just tremendously. He relied on her so much. There was one day it was fabulous where he had a press conference and she was on the road, and she calls him and she \road, and she calls him and she says, a linden, i thought you did a fine job. Oh lyndon, i thought you did a fine job. I particularly liked your answer about taxes. You did well on Something Else and then the critique begins. [laughter] that Opening Statement was way too long. He says, they told me to do that. She keeps going, she is taking detailed notes, and you can see him backing away from the telephone. [laughter] he wanted her to do that. He wanted that kind of advice. That is the other thing about first ladies, that is the key role that they play, which is that it is a terrible burden on them they are the only person by the end because even the president s best buddy and best friend cannot tell them, you are full of it, and the first lady at various times has to. That is a terrible job. All the president s learn that they cannot tell anybody a secret because it will get out and they know that. Arent they wonderful . [applause] we really have two brilliant experts. It is your turn. We are going to have staff people from the Historical Society Walking Around with microphones. Do not ask a question until the mike asked to you mic gets to you. We want to be able to hear you. If you can, please stand. Do not give a speech. Do us a favor it is not fair. Ask a question. We have wonderful answers coming. My question is, obviously the penultimate in an evening on women in the white house would be a woman in the white house, but it was not until hillary ran that people started to question, what with this costume, the first man . How come nobody asks what the first lady who may have come in to office with her husband nobody really cares or wants her to continue in her fulltime profession i wonder if you could comment on that. That is true about everything. It is still true i was just appalled and the 2008 election that it was still true. You know candidates are asked, who will take care of the children female candidates are asked, who will ever take care of the children . Never has a male candidate then asked, who will take care of the children . As far as i know, they have children. [laughter] it is a double standard that still exists. Until we have the experience of having a male first dude, we are going to puzzle about it until that happens. It is an assumption that a mans ego will not allow him to be in that position, which is kind of demeaning to men. One thing that could be said earlier that is a deep, profound point about the presidency is that it does resemble american governorships quite a lot. Typically a fouryear term, independently elected, the same twoparty system, veto pen, pardon pen and we are beginning to experiences with women governors and first dudes. I think jennifer granholm, for example. Former president of the harvard civil rights, Civil Liberties law review, in a way that barack obama was president of the harvard our review law review. You would have heard a lot about her as a possible Vice President ial candidate for the fact that she was born in canada and therefore no proper birth certificate, according to some, that natural born thing. Her first dude is my yell college classmate, a very impressive guy, dan mulhern. He took care of the kids. That begins a model for america, what it might be at the federal level. Heat your eye on governorships. Keep your eye on governorships. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the relationship between frequent and eleanor roosevelt. Is there anything franklin and eleanor roosevelt. I think the Doris Kearns Goodwin took book is very telling. It is wonderfully documented. I come away from it feeling like they were ships passing in the night. There would be times when he would reach out to her, and she was unavailable to him, and times when she would reach out to him, and he was unavailable to her. It was a complicated relationship, to put it mildly. Politically, i agree completely. I think there are times when she was out there beyond where he wanted her to be, but she had passionate views. Beyond her advocacy, she also very much he was very clear on this served as his eyes and ears. She could be out there, and he could not. That was a very useful role. When you talk about women in the white house, sometimes, youre talking about other women the Doris Kearns Goodwin book you say, well the president and unburden himself to their spouses and share secrets not all secrets apparently. Any observations on that . On the other woman . She should go away. [laughter] i was going to add one thing on eleanor and franklin when it comes to the other women, that guilt played such a a role in their relationship. I think he felt that he could not reign her in he was guilt ridden because he was guilt ridden. He started meeting her when he got polio. There is a great bit of history on how she is the one that he was running for governor, and she went out and campaigned for him. After that, he learned to rely on her. She learned how to campaign for him. And try to keep his mother at bay. [laughter] the other other woman. My understanding is that beth truman spent a good portion of Harry Trumans presidency in missouri. Therefore, a much influence did beth truman has as first lady . He adored her. To the degree that she says anything to him, it mattered a great deal. She did spend a lot of time in missouri. She really did not ever enjoy washington life. She had a mother to. Mother too. Who could not stand him. [laughter] anything that she would say to him, he took as gospel. Do we know how political she was . The truman book does you some sense. Not enough. You do not get a sense that she cared. A question about spouses as political liabilities, something that Hillary Clinton is facing in a way that other male president s may not have had to face. Are there instances where the spouses of male president s have become liabilities, or is it a special burden for say, Michelle Obama, in 2020 or Something Like that . You cannot get worse than Rachel Jackson. The Jackson Campaign andrew Jackson Campaign, where the whole question of whether they had married ill she was still married, which they had, it was really vicious. But you have to realize how vicious the press was in earlier times. We think it is bad now. [laughter] it is nothing compared to how it was. One newspaper wrote that Dolly Madison that Thomas Jefferson had pimped Dolly Madison and her sisters and exchange for votes in congress. She was accused of having unsexed madison, because she was overly sexed. Crazy John Randolph kept threatening to name names. Then there would be a rumor. Then she would have to do with the rumor by inviting the guy to dinner. There was lots of nasty, horrible press. Certainly Rachel Jackson was a very negative aspect of the Jackson Campaign. She died before he took office. He spent his entire presidency fighting for her. Her ghost overshadows his administration and his relationship with the cabinet and strained relations. I think that first ladies in our lifetime, that we have all observed, have become liabilities, and theyve had to bring in pr people. The women get locked up hillary, when she did healthcare nancy reagan, she diffused it by showing up at one of those press dinners, the gridiron dinner, and doing a little song, joking about herself. It had a wonderful effect. Even Rosalynn Carter. They called her the Iron Butterfly because she had that soft, sweet lilt. President carter gave her a portfolio, and the public reared up and said, we do not want her to have a portfolio. I think that first ladies can be liabilities. Then they get kind of put away. We do not see them. I think the public wants first ladies to the in the background be in the background. But they are curious about them. They like them to be in the foreground doing some sort of white house tour. [laughter] and the role of the Vice President is similarly awkward. You can fire your cabinet officers, but you cannot fire your Vice President. You can choose not to run again with your Vice President. This awkward relationship, sometimes in the foreground, sometimes acronym a sometimes sometimes in the background. Mccain and sarah palin. [laughter] many Vice President s have been completely ignored. The president will not have anything to do with them. I cannot see good evening. I have known 14 first ladies. I would like to address the panel asking, what are your views on nellie taft, the wife of William Howard taft, and edith wilson, who is probably the penultimate petticoat presidency of the 20th century . She was certainly good Edith Wilson Woodrow wilson had a stroke. Edith wilson early cap everybody away from him. Really kept everybody away from him. It is possible that she was signing president ial documents and was for all intents and purposes president. She was highly influential. I do not know the know it cap story well, but there is a new book out the nelly taft story well, but there is a new book out no, sorry, that is hoover. Wilson had more access than thomas marshall, the Vice President. Im not sure he fully knew the extent of wilsons disabilities. No, nobody did. Not even the Vice President. If you want an interesting book on the very interesting respect to which Vice President s have sometimes been kept in the dark about president ial health situations, an outstanding book from failing hands, president ial illnesses over the years and how sometimes wives have been bodyguards to some extent, keeping others away. I would like to ask you about mrs. Onassis. Nobody is talking about mrs. Onassis. I would like to hear your opinion. Jackie kennedy. Obviously she was i think about it now, and she was so young. You look at that wonderful style and grace that she brought to the job with two little kids and being pregnant and losing babies, all the while she is first lady it is really i marvel at it now because i was in college at the time, so she did not seem young to me, but i think her style certainly had an impact and an impact in european capitals. She did a wonderful job on the white house itself. That is part of the job the first lady, to be a curator of this Important National site. Starting with dolly and james madison, they turned over the building of the white house, the furnishing of the white house to her because he did not into full with it, and it is a big public works project. It was in a womans hands. I think Jacqueline Kennedy did that. Among other things, weve talked about eisenhower it really was passing the torch to a new generation. The first president born in the 20th century. The whole sense of the veteran kennedy went to congress in 1946. My father was first elected in 1940 and had gone into the navy, and came back in the class of 1946, which was a huge class. It was a republican class. I father was a democrat, but it was a republican class. Another huge class in 1948 in congress that was a democratic class. They very selfconsciously ran as the man who went, not the man who sent. They were the veterans. Yes, of course, eisenhower was a veteran, but he was the man who sent. It was that sense of the whole generation of world war ii warriors taking over the capital. Jack kennedy was just part of that in a very fundamental way. We are running out of time, and i would just like to sum up on the topic with a thought that a friend of mine, the historian gil troy, first wrote about. I think generally it is true you will find exceptions to this but generally, marriages improve in the white house. First ladies and president s see each other more then they probably did before he was president. He is not going to roam around. You hope. [laughter] here is a final thought there are always exceptions the final thought is that they spend so much time before the Public Holding hands and gazing at each other, they spend more time doing that than anything else, and pretty soon, they start to believe it. [laughter] on that note [applause] we want to thank you so much. We love you, you keep coming back, and you are wonderful. You as well, you keep coming back. [applause] and cokie roberts, keep coming back. I think the audience would agree, we want you all back together again. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2013] no man needs a Strong Partner more than the american president , sheltered and good goodness he is. Cocooned as he is. Those president s with brave the have a, those president s distinct advantage. Had pat nixon been able to cut through her husbands paranoia, watergate might have been avoided. They were leading virtually separate lives as you will see in my per trail of this saddest of president ial couples. I do not give my husband advice, she was quoted as saying. Is there a man or woman alive who doesnt need the advice of the person who knows him or her best . The author talks about president ial marriages and how the first ladies have helped shape american history, monday night at 9 00 eastern on cspan. Next, a discussion about the challenges women face in political campaigns and in office. And recent campaigns affected by candidate statements caught on tape. After that, a discussion of the future of the republican party. Now a panel form the annual netroots convention. Christine pelosi, daughter of House Speaker nancy pelosi, talks about the obstacles women face while running for office and legislating. This is about one hour, 15 minutes. 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