Transcripts For CSPAN Washington This Week 20130505

other. they are inimical to each other. someone who is rational is not religious. someone who is religious is not rational. science is the antidote to religion. science is rational. it is the antidote to religion's irrationality. this itself is the ultimate irrational idea because the belief that religion is inimical to science and reason in the west is completely untrue. religion underpins science and reason. >> author, columnist, and winner of the orwell prize for phillipsm, melanie takes your calls and tweets in depth live on booktv. >> next, the state of latino america and jobs, immigration, education, and foreign-policy, with tavis smiley. ,nalysts include luis gutierrez republican strategist and a navarro -- republican strategist .na navarro, and hector barreto this is just over three hours. >> please welcome this august panel we have for this conversation. i'm delighted to be moderating this session. there are two panels that are convening today at chicago state university. please bank chicago university for having us here. chicagoe bank -- thank university for having us here. [applause] i am honored to be back here at this great institution once again. there is an afternoon panel. fernandoe moderated by of univision radio america. eight brilliant and opinionated members of the latino community. make sure you take note of your programming schedule so you can catch the other panel. to have thisd opportunity to sit amongst these toluences -- influencers talk about issues that are important to all americans, especially and uniquely to the latino community. i've said many times to my friend, antonio gonzalez, that i sometimes feel for mice -- my hispanic brothers and sisters. when they get access to mainstream media, so often they get boxed into having one conversation about you know what -- immigration reform. even what's happening in washington, or not happening as it were, there are so many issues that so often we don't get the benefit. we don't hear their opinions about the things that matter to all the rest of us. education, unemployment, under employment, housing, crime, health care, even foreign- policy. i hope that between these two cancels -- panels which make up latino nation beyond the numbers, we can get to some meaningful dialogue, some rich discourse about the things that matter to all of us as americans. and get a unique perspective on what's happening inside this community. when you say "beyond the numbers," it cause of the fact that the numbers are clear. this community is growing exponentially in america. 25% of students in america identify as latino. this is the new america. it sounds weird to say the new america. they were here before we got here. we are going to have to come to terms with what it means, what these numbers mean for the future of this great nation. without any further ado, let's get right to the conversation, latino nation -- beyond the numbers. i want to start with my friend thomas saenz. had this have conversation a number of times. i think the place to start today, while we will get to immigration reform, it is not immigration. it is causing all of us to be a bit fearful. .hese new unemployment numbers the numbers that we saw just recently that came out from the u.s. government. everybody is in trouble. i don't care if you are black, red, brown, white, yellow. everybody seems to be in trouble in this economy, but it has had a particular impact on the latino community. 2/3 of the wealth in this community was lost due to this so-called great recession. ormight be at the precipice already in a double dip recession. the wealth of your community has already been lost, god knows what's going to happen in the coming weeks and months if this recession does not receive -- received -- recede. give me some sense of what the impact has been on the latino community. >> i think the numbers you have given illustrate the devastating impact of the economic downturn, and it's particularly going to hit communities like the latino commit -- community. the wealth development is not as mature as it is in the white community, for example. to bounce back from employment challenges is not as deep because of some of the long-standing issues we will talk about today and including the continuing education gap for the latino and african american communities, which is a problem not just for those communities but the entire nation. efforts to prevent discrimination do not receive the effort and attention they should receive. when you have an economic downturn, a lot of folks return to bad patterns. some of those include making positions -- decisions based on inappropriate bases. that is often the basis of language, accident, presumed immigration status, race, or any of the other inappropriate bases. we have to make sure we have laws in place and being vigorously enforced that ensure that even in the worst of times we are still making certain that all communities have the opportunity to bounce back and to continue to build. that's what our entire nation depends upon. particularly given the growth and significance of the latino community to the future economy. we've got to make sure we are in a position to ensure that problems experienced in the great recession don't become problems that exist over the course of the next century because they have multigenerational impact, multiple impacts on educational futures, opportunities to obtain the skills and experiences to do well in the workplaces. they have long-term impacts on asset building. other generators of economic development and opportunity for everyone. >> how would you juxtapose then the notion that in the last presidential election cycle, this community, the latino community am a flexed its muscle like we have never seen before? the political muscle is growing, yet this economic downturn is sucking the lifeblood out of many families. >> i think you reconcile it by recognizing that as important as all of the information -- attention that came out of the pundits analysis of that anction, really, it was election about many other issues. in latino community said unprecedented numbers we are going to be interested, engaged on all sorts of issues, starting with economic policy, starting with workforce development him a starting with illuminating the -- darting with workforce development, starting with in the mandating the issues -- starting with workforce development, starting with eliminating the discrimination we have seen. immigrantact on community, the entire latino community. so much of stereotyping leads into how people make decisions, everyday decisions about -- leads into how people make into how -- bleeds people make decisions, everyday decisions. >> what is your sense -- i want to follow-up on this. we will get into more of this as the conversation can print -- as the conversation proceeds. --t is your sense of these has there been research done on the opportunities and i certain latino's -- opportunities denied certain latino's based upon their looks their accent, their appearance? there was a study in my own community, the african-american community, that your very name decides whether or not you get an opportunity or not with a particular job. if on the resume, they see shiny shaniqua williams, that could work against you. it makes a difference what you name your children. there are two sides to the question. one is the cultural question. a cultural question about what that means these of the assimilation -- means the of -- -- means of the civvies means vis a vis assimilation. kind of information is there to suggest that kind of stigmatization as to destabilization? >> anecdotally, and you do see smaller studies that demonstrate that these have been issues. there are issues that our current set of laws, that it does not grapple well with any of these issues, whether it is about a name on a resume, language, accident, assumptions about immigration status or background -- accent, assumptions about immigration status or background. it's clear that we need to have laws that are modernized to address what we see today. as the immigration debate has moved forward and too many ways resulted in demonization, you don't yet know the immediate and longer-term impact of some of that demonization of the entire latino community. we have seen it not just in arizona but in five other states where there has been official legislative action. that's going to have economic impact. whether that is fully documented by studies yet or not is something that we as we go about policymaking need to ensure that we are adjusting our laws and our practices to address those new and developing concerns. any kind of discrimination in the employment force has a significant impact beyond just theg -- beyond just affected individuals. it is a drag on our economy. we see to make sure, as these developments throughout the country, that we are adjusting our laws, policies, practices to ensure that we are addressing the concerns of today. that includes both the context we are talking about in , but alson debates the great recession. the decisions that are being made sometimes in the context where someone assumes, perhaps that the state of the economy means they can get away with things they could not get away with five or year -- 510 years -- with five years ago or 10 years ago. now you can get away with not just discrimination at the hiring point, but that -- but discrimination in the commotion point, discrimination in the -- folks are afraid of losing their job, the benefits that come with that job, if those benefits come. our too many employers, not -- there are too many employers, not all of them. too many of them conclude that the economic situation means they can get away with violations they would other not -- they would otherwise not take a chance in engaging in. >> i am noodling which way i want to go. you give me so many wonderful segues. i'm going to lean to my left and go to hector barreto. hector was, at one point, the administrator for the small business administration with the latino coalition. i have a number of things i want to come to you on, specifically about his miss. -- about business. recession on this small business in the latino community. small business drives america. inside the latino community, small business, mom and pop shops, these other opportunities for entrepreneurship drives the economic engine of your community. talk to me about this -- the impact of this recession on small business. >> it has been significant. there are some people who will say that, when times are going well, there are pockets of the latino community in a recession. when we are in a recession, there are pockets of the latino community in a depression. there's an incredible amount of opportunity in the future come especially with small business. when i was at sba, the fastest growing segment of small business in united states was hispanic-owned business, and i believe it still is. that represents about 3 million companies in the united states. those companies are generating about $500 billion in revenue. those numbers could double every five years according to demographers, if they have the right environment. a lot of those businesses do not feel they have the right environment. latino business needs the same thing that any business needs. they need capital. very difficult to access capital right now. they need capacity. they need to know the things they don't know, counseling, technical assistance. they need contracts. not only from the federal government, which is very important, but also from the private sector. and they also have to control their costs. there are a lot of latino businesses in this state of analysis and paralysis. a thought things would be better by now. when we are talking about jobs, small businesses in america generate 2/3 of the net new jobs in our economy. our economy will not come back unless small businesses are thriving. they are the engine of america. a lot of those small businesses are not thriving right now. those 3 million hispanic businesses employ millions of latino. -- latinos. >> er in chicago, the home of president barack obama -- we are in chicago, the home of presiden barack obama. if he were here -- president barack obama. if he were here, one of the things his administration did was -- that money was supposed to trickle down to small businesses to help them through this difficult economic time in the nation. there was a report that came out, i guess a year or so ago, out of the ohio state university, that talk specifically about the fact that in the african-american and -- african-american community, that money had not trickled down to small business. i wonder if you have similar information about whether or not it trickle down to latino american business. >> a lot of that money did not go to small business or infrastructure or opportunities for those small businesses to get more capital. a lot of times, small businesses feel they can take their a lot of -- take care of a lot of these issues themselves if they have a more friendly environment. there are a lot of issues that affect all small businesses. the amount of taxes they are paying. that's important. a lot of times, small businesses play a cash pay a harder -- pay taxes.r percentage of healthcare costs are really important to small businesses. thosebusiness is one of only communities that has trouble accessing affordable healthcare, quality healthcare, etc. if you work for a corporation, government, or union, a lot of times those things are taken care of. more regulation than ever before. a lot of times, small business cannot deal with it. the business can put resources toward that -- big business can put resources toward that. there's a lot of issues that affect them besides a stimulus program. sometimes, small businesses feel their government does not really understand what they do every day. they do not feel like they have a strong advocate or partner. sometimes, they feel on the defensive by their own government. and i'm not talking about just federal government. state government, local government, etc. government, luis gutierrez, government,-- >> luis gutierrez, congressman from illinois. we will get to immigration because they cannot be avoided, nor should it be. dealing with the economy and the fact that so many small businesses feel like government is in the way, that increasing regulation, etc., is making it more difficult for them to advance their businesses and their entrepreneurial spirit and genius tom a what say you about -- and genius, what say you about his indictment that many people feel that government is still in the way? >> i feel that government -- i think many people feel that government can do more to stimulate job opportunities and job growth in our community. when i look at jobs, i also want the american public to know that when you think of latinos, the impact is not going to be the same throughout the latino community. want everybody to know that most latinos in the united states are citizens of the united states and here legally. some of us have been here for generations, more than generations, for centuries. others may have arrived five years ago, 10 years ago. but we are a community of families. as i look at small businesses and i look at the latino community and i look at whether you are a recent immigrant or a product of immigrants, i know how important that entrepreneurial spirit is in our community. and i really see it in the recently arrived immigrants. it seems to me the newer you are latino to america and the more recent lee arrived -- more recently arrived you are, the more entrepreneurial you are. we need to be a more welcoming nation because that entrepreneurial spirit creates jobs, creates wealth, creates an economy in which people have purchasing power. i want government to be there. there is one really sad fact. and that is that it is great to see that osha and the federal through its practices is decreasing the number of people that get hurt when they go to work. it is good. people should go to work, put in a good days work for a fair 's work for ad day fair salary. more latinos die every day working somewhere. latinos tend to get hurt more than -- it is an increase. -- workforce is safer from is safer. from the perspective of latinos, it is not safer. i agree that we should look at how special communities that have demonstrated -- come to chicago. everybody thinks michigan avenue. to go and shop. what is the avenue that creates the second-largest stream of tax dollars to the city of chicago? it is 26th street in little village, in the mexican immigrant . that's the community that is creating jobs. i look at inner cities like chicago and others. i think we should motivate. -- and i think this was part of your question, your first premisofos -- is owning homes. if you're really going to reestablish neighborhoods and fortify neighborhoods, people have to have the ability. in our community. part of that wealth the depion billions of dollars continue to go back to moms and dads, brothers and sistersmuch abt. of neighbor id want, the kind of neighbor that works really hard, -- good job, still takes some of that money and sends it so that others will do better. it is that entrepreneurial spirit that i don't think we've given enough thought to how to promote it. >> i want to start with this notion of these two hispanics per day who die in the workplace. that is not just a shame. it is a disgrace that that happens in this country on a daily basis. no other community would accept that. , a couple in chicago of years ago, actually in joliet. i spent a couple of days filming conversations with a group called the warehouse workers for justice. i know you are familiar with them. what they really do is to document of day laborers and rss . about the a bit more ways that these workers are exploited tis, killed on the job. .> the factthe statistics bear t they don't get the training that they should get. they don't understand. or eiown defense. in some communities, it is different. i figured all that outd to figut trying to staff this panel. >> depending on where you are at, you will probably do better because you will have a governor or a mayor and a political system that on your side. if you are in mississippi, and i come a latinos in mississippi? yeah. some of the largest growth of latinos in the south. ofent 45 minutes outside orlando and there were 500 migrant workers. dominicans. when they said mexico, the place ose are the migrant workerst tot i don't get paiddon't i have ao demand payment for my work. , look, let's make sure --t these 11 million people they are important to the community of people. too. as they gain rights, stead use the temeam hearted by. i have beeasked about this. i ve saia numb of times that activities are illegal actions are illegal, people are no. anything human is not alien to me. , voting thisindi was on fox ne- conversation. my friend sean hannity could noo a debatelo. before we go further, your, on the terminology, that words do matter potentially on this conversation. >> words matter. of the late-t 1960's, early-1970's. in the african community, latino community began to say, you know what? we are going to define who we are and what terminology is used to describe us. decided worker. and that best reflects the nature of who they are. as we saw with the dream kids, the young immigrant children who came to america who are selling in schools and the going to college but don't find a purchase for themselves, they go to school with my daughter. ds they came to ourhe childre we saw them grow up, confront tf leading high-school in being american in everything buts g them pce of paper. the country they love, the language they speak, american as er understd who these undocumented workers are. th have been here more than 10 years. when you lookmmignt families, 80% of the children arerto describ them as illegal aliens and t and citizens of this nation is too ill to scrap them. hen society in general says it would do it. it great state of arizona. up 0 r has been this conversation about immigration which is now happening in washington. coming min the ningl immigration reform is reached dr into this conversation about would come to youn washinbut te and get a sense of what has happened in arizona for the last few years. what is the state -- what is the d vtimes, so thank you first ol for having us here. arizona has gone through hell the last f got turned around en we have alwaysthe rder. where a large agricual large hod tourismthe ebb and flow across e border has been a natural thing for arizona. rth mexico. when 911people started to see th of hispanic communities and their became a very repressive movement. people were afraid jobs to be taken by people that were not look like what they thought other people in arizona should look like. when the movement got started after 9/11, they said everybody other country, the backlash incredible. s the sheriff, but the governor used the evidence to get ahead politically. nobody said anything because everybody was very afraid that they would lose jobs and political positions. the culture got created that is very repressive. e-verify before the rest of the nation. he looked latino and have a latino last name, all of a sudden, your the one people hesitated because there were questions if there will -- if they were undocumented. situation where the supreme court has overturned part of it thanks to the aclu and other entities, but we're still living in a very hard society. have very conservative right and the party people who say the border needed to be safer. crime on thelittle border. the illegal immigration problem was one that was blown out of proportion and i have been an elected official for 30 years. i represent a large section of the hispanic community. as the first mexican-american elected to the board of supervisors and the first woman. i have seen the attitudes change with the community. at first there was a lot of pride that we were a diverse state. people took pride in that and then diversity started being not what it but criticized. then you saw repression coming down. 300,000 undocumented in our community. were born and then you saw the bill, and use of light from the community. we lost about 100,000 people. we lost small mom-and-pop of 10, probably tend, out the stores, probably seven went out of business. you started seeing people get very, very scared. because of the sheriff and the repressive nature of the legislation that went through. >> it is worth reminding people that this is the same state that did not want to enact the king holiday. i raise that because i regard dr. king as the greatest american this country has ever produced. lots of great americans, but i have an unapologetic low for dr. king. the only weapon he ever used was love. i raise that because what he was up against was the same thing as what black folks are up against and the same thing in your community is up against. we're trying to love these fellow citizens but we are up against a campaign of fear. fear two ort word three times. i want you to give some sense of how effectively that tool of ofr has been used because what keeps this issue frozen in place is the fear. the government, they ain't stupid and they know how effective the weapon of fear camby. king and others had to confront that fear. talk to me about the palpable fear one feels in the state of arizona. >> we have a share of that goes out and raids. they go into communities that are predominantly hispanic and they will stop you with anything. phoenix, a tempe, channeler, gilbert. it is predominantly hispanic and indian. we have generations of people who live in guadeloupe and the sheriff decided he is going to make a national show, came in, brought a tank in town, came in with 100 squad cars and went through the town and started arresting in stopping everybody who had a tail like that didn't work or a cracked windshield, anything they could stop people 4. they were looking for undocumented. we heard there was a lot of the undocumented. we call it -- they did not call them that. a column but we doubt don't call them. oneent fear through every and maricopa county and the state of marriage -- state of arizona. people were afraid to drive, people who were citizens but their parents were not documented because they were being persecuted. getting raids started worse and worse. we started having people go out and document them and take pictures of what was happening. those people started to get arrested and being held for questioning. it was almost like living in nazi germany. that is what all of us compare it to. illegal is illegal and they shouldn't be here. these people had been here for generations. we had a rate occur as early as three weeks ago. a company that had hired people over the years, many of them undocumented, was rated by the sheriff. a man who had been working there for eight years -- for 18 years. he had a perfect work record, no criminal background was arrested, broadened and deported. his family is devastated. half of his children are u.s. citizens. the other half are dreamers who are brought here early will become u.s. citizens eventually and that is what is happening. they're tearing families apart and criminalizing all undocumented in our state. a lot of rich culture. a lot of people come up from mexico. we have corn vendors in our this iny and you can do peace anymore. everyone is so afraid that everyone will be checked. i have -- the diamondbacks are in arizona. i take about 2000 children a year to a diamondbacks game. they have to do community service in march them through the ballpark. we had to stop that for years ago because the children were so afraid of the brown shirts and the surest department. that is the fear. the police departments are beside themselves. it's getting a little better now that the supreme court has acted, but the police departments and police chiefs have stood up and said this is enough. we must get immigration reform because we can i get cooperation in parts of the city that need police coverage but everyone is afraid to talk to them because they have no idea. i intimated earlier, i think part of what gets lost in these conversations, particularly about the issue of immigration, is the humanity. we never seem to focus in on the humanity of these everyday people and of these fellow citizens. my friend antonio gonzalez, he wears a couple of hats. he's the president of the william c. velazquez institute; he's also the president of the southwest voter education project. i reached out to him and said i needed your help in pulling this conversation together. i'm delighted -- let me ask you to give a special round of applause for antonio for helping me pull this gathering together. [applause] we have these conversations all the time. we don't need tv cameras, c-span and others to be here. just the other day we were talking on the phone about the issue of immigration reform, and we got into this really fascinating conversation paralleling the struggle of the african american community and the latino community. for those of you who know your history, i won't take time here, precious television time, to go through this, but for those who know your history, you know that what happened in my community, in our community, was not that there was one major piece of legislation passed at one time that was the end-all, be-all. and once that passed, it was eutopia fort negro's forever. we're still not at that point. bring somerted to semblance of respect to black people in the nation. and yet i sense, and antonio and i were in this conversation, that some believe that one major piece of legislation on immigration is going not solve all the problems inside the latino community. sees thisid he process little differently, that it's going to be similar to the struggle in the african-american community. it's going to require legislation over time. to bring the respect to this community that they deserve as fellow citizens. as's talk about your sense we get into washington -- weeds, so to speak, but let's talk macro about how you see this playing itself out over not just the next few weeks, not just the next few months, but over years, to level the playing field for the latino community. antonio gonzalez: i am hopeful -- i would be remiss if i didn't take a few minutes of my time to wilcox s two supervisor possibly important comments. just to let the public know in arizona, i think you have the most courageous resistance to this repressive wave to these politics because everything she said is true. they do surrounding communities. they do a rescue without cause. they do investigate you. counts bydicted, 44 sheriff joe that luis -- i haves leadership said for some time that arizona is a dictatorship in the midst of our democracy. resistance. great sb author of the infamous 1070 thrown out by my good friend in the supreme court. that offer was recalled in an election last year by a bipartisan coalition of democrats and republicans. there is a fight back going on. there is a recall effort with rpio. it's not like where you see massive marches until now. an organizer's adage -- the best organizer of my people is my enemy. by doing may have done this repressive wave of emigrants and people that look like them in arizona is at least a hailstorm of response that is helping people get organized, voting, arizona is now a hotbed of latino voting, and so on so that at the end of the day, we will prevail and will have justice restored to the state. for digressing. my point is -- i am very hopeful that his leadership will be successful in will be successful in washington, d.c., and we'll get a comprehensive reform that is beneficial to our community. but i'm also mindful of the history of immigration reform. the last immigration reform that we did that had a legalization component, irca, in 1986, also had a repressive component, employer sanctions, that drove immigrants further underground exploitable. of concerned that this kind something good and something bad formula will be combined again in this reform. i hope not, but i draw inspiration from the african american example of the and i think this is a little-known fact civil rights did not come to america in one bill in 1964. bad back that was public accommodations. voting rights came in 1965. london of -- nondiscrimination and employment and housing came in 1972. voting rights was extended to language minorities in 1975. so literally what you had was an 11-year wave of good bills that addressed the problem. wepoint is this cycle, should get the best deal good deal. if we don't, then we should continue, given that they say we have all this political power, 15 million registered voters, then it'll be 20 million. given that we have all this political power, that this fight may go on, and if we don't get a good bill we should fight, bill. >> i have a few other people want to engage in this conversation. congressman who is here at the table literally. i would like to get everyone else involved. let mepushed back -- push back on you for the sake of probing more deeply here. after sandy ago, head, after our precious babies were gunned down at school, there may have been three people in america who sought we would ,ot have an assault weapons ban who thought we would not have background checks passed in congress. i'm not even sure the head of the nra at that time believed they could get out of this one as far as legislation being passed on an assault weapons ban and background checks. thehere we are, in chicago, assault weapons ban did not get to the floor for a vote. as we sit here in chicago, i'm not even sure we're going to get a background check through congress. nobody in the country a few months ago after that tragedy could imagine we would be at this place right now where we would not have even a vote, much less passage of these matters. you see where i am going with this. why should i believe there is in fact going to be meaningful immigration reform that gets passed in the short term? give you my best shot. i think it's hard. any comprehensive bill in american federal politics, that is the hardest thing to do. a comprehensive bill on any subject, there are so many moving pieces, it's always the hardest thing to do. but if there was ever a moment, this is the moment. have massive voting of the affected constituencies. affected the behavior of both parties. from the democrats, and always gotten good words, but when they had a chance in 2009 and 2010, they did not pull the trigger for immigration reform, and they were chastised a lot along the way for not doing it. then you have the republicans who decided not to be for immigration reform and they were chastised at the balance but -- at the ballot box. internal had conversations. there were republicans inside but you have what seems to be a greater will on behalf of both parties. leadership matters and i would say on the gun-control issue, the democrats probably overreached. they probably should have taken the bird in hand of background checks first and then reach for the bigger assault weapons ban. it is a tough, divided congress. sometimes you have to attack one way to go the other way. there seems to have been more of betting done. their leader has said no matter what, we will pass the dream act. you have a floor now set that is higher. immigration maybe the issue where the parties go, but on this one, we're going to do a deal. your assessment is the democrats overreach. politically i get your point, sometimes it's not worth fighting even if you win, i would prefer to see harry reid vote that to a floor for a so people could vote against it. i think they've punk on that issue and i will leave that alone. maybe i shouldn't say that but i think i just did. here is the point. the democratsk overreached on gun-control, what would be the overreach on emigration? >> at this point, i don't believe they are in a danger of overreaching. we don't know the substance yet. there are intense negotiations going on. there is a deal in the deal is not there. i am in a wait-and-see point of view. we know what we want. we want a fair and functional of theation for as many undocumented population as we can get the votes for. had immigration reform on enforcement for 10 years now. strengthening enforcement at the border, they spend $18 billion a year on immigration enforcement. emigration is down by 70%. the fbi certifies the border is secure. that part of the equation is pretty much done. does need morees workers. the guest worker agreement between the chamber of commerce and labor that was announced seems to be pretty calibrated. it is small. why do you need a bunch of workers now. it grows with time and it seems to be reasonable. the question is will that be reflected in inflation. >> you have heard antonia suggest that if anything is going to get done on this issue, it's going to require some bipartisanship. a price to be be paid by either or both parties of something does not get done. give me your read as to whether going to be is bipartisanship forthcoming on this issue. goingon't think there is to be bipartisanship. i think there is bipartisanship. a democratto me is congressman has been a leader on this issue for years there has been torquing for years in a . partisan fashion we have seen what we don't see in congress or washington. we haven't seen as in many years where legislation is emanating out of the legislation and front. they're doing it in a bipartisan withon and looking at that complete commitment. we've been talking about the fear and the environment in arizona, but it's also a important to point out that two of the people in a gang of eight working on a solution are senators from arizona. that samejump in -- senator from arizona who like and is a nice guy, he has been jekyll and hyde on this issue. john mccain has jumped back and forth on this issue when it serves his political purposes. he hasjohn mccain, but jumped back and this issue. he's been a maverick and he is backed up, so he's on a gang of eight now, but tell me why i should believe the right john mccain at the right time is going to show up. >> i don't agree with your assessment. >> i think the facts bear that out when he ran for president. i saw a different set of facts. size set ofhis commitments that he thought he couldn't keep. in saw president obama and made some very specific promises that he did not keep. i was on that campaign and i said to john mccain that they want to hear a time line. they want to hear you commit to doing it within a year. he said to me i can't because we can't bring it up until we know it's going to pass. i'm not going to make an empty promise. on the other side, and the promises were made. that. has called them on he's put the cause and the community above party. i think you are judging john mccain way too harshly. why should you believe him now? because he doesn't have to do it. is are running for president ever again. he's doing it because he's a senator from arizona that he cares about his country and he realizes what's going on in this country and he wants to improve the community. >> let me offer the other side so that you know that i am far beyond fair and balanced on this conversation. i feel the same way about president obama. we can debate this until the cows come home, but john mccain on my read of this has gone back and forth on this issue when it suited his political nature. i like john mccain but he is troubled me and this issue. i like barack obama, but he's done the same thing. antonio did not go there. it's a question of which barack obama are we talking about? are we talking about barack obama that has deported more people than the bush administration did and raise the fee for the citizenship applications. don't get me started. i can go both sides and is because these politicians, that's my point -- they have moved and played this game like checkers and chess when it suited their interest in politics. it's not just john mccain. it's not -- it's barack obama as well. >> we're talking about the president obama that just one area election with 71% of the latino vote and understand we will not let him off the hook a second time. i think it is a president obama, rahm emanu-ger has el telling him its too hard to do and it's a barack obama who want a legacy and it will be a major point for his legacy to the point where he is stepping back. what would have been overreach is if president obama had done what he thought he was going to do. if he put his own legislation to congress and that here is my bill and you pass it. to democrats would go over him and say let us do this. we've got it. he has stepped away at the other thing we're seeing on emigration and not any other issue is a white house and congress on both sides, republicans and democrats, actually talking cooperatively. it didn't start happening until a few weeks ago. that is the president obama we're dealing with and he that he isrstands dealing with a much more hispanic community that understands when we are being played. >> here is my final question but. really curious. i take your point -- there's nothing you said about the timing of this that i disagree with and the urgency i think both sides feel. aboutm still concerned the difference between politics on gun-control which has given us nothing there's nothing that pulls apart strings of americans -- of american heart strings were pulled by the immigrant story and the immigrant struggle, we would have done this a long time ago. clearly the hearts of most americans and politicians have not been tugged even by the humiliation the supervisor shared with us earlier, that many in your community have to endure. that has not been enough to be a game changer. upsets, a nurse and gets the attention of americans like the gunning down of our children. everybody knows the child, everybody has a child. nobody wants to see their children subjected to that. help me understand how if we couldn't move the needle on gun- control when babies are killed, how you see the deal being moved on this? what's the difference in the politics that makes you think something is absolutely going to happen? >> i'm not sure something is absolutely going to be done. if anyone has seen the emigration struggle through the you can come very close and at the end, a little thing could blow it all up. on immigration, most legislation, particularly something as controversial as immigration, it ain't over until it's over. the difference is, i think both parties at this point understand that the cost of not doing it is far greater than the cost of doing it. politically, economically, national-security -- i think there has also been a ground work that has been laid for years on emigration that has not been laid on gun-control. on gun-control, what we saw has devastated american public -- devastated the american public wanting action. towas an emotional reaction the most horrific crime we could ever imagine. on immigration, the groundwork has been being laid for months without anybody knowing it. these guys in the house have been meeting for years and they have been doing so quietly. did you know how hard is to get a congressman not to spill a secret? they haven't and haven't for years because that's how committed they are to this cause. think it's a matter of political will. results was an unavoidable awakening, on both sides i think of the power of we latino vote and also -- had in mitt romney -- i want was not very involved in the campaign and not going to support any republican nominee that speaks about immigration away mitt romney and some of the other candidates did. but mitt romney decided to run a campaign where in my view, when he decided was it's easier to rack up more of the other democratic votes, easier to rack up more white votes that it is to turn some of the hispanic votes and i can still win with 29% or 30% of the latino vote. it ended at peak at 27% and president obama was not only to replicate numbers from 2008, he was able to improve on the turnout of those numbers which the romney campaign was not counting on. but the silver lining i think is the biggest thing president obama has done is win by 71%. candidate romney, the biggest favor he did to immigration reform is talking about self deportation and self deporting himself from the white house. >> i hope you are right, that the right mccain and write a obama show up in this debate. let me get these last two persons involved to honor my commitment. i do want to hear from you because you are at the center of the debate. he's a professor at the university of berkeley as sociologists and historians. this always seems to work out the way it's supposed to. i don't have to work that hard. you have all talked in your own way about the history of this fight and this struggle for immigration where it is concerned. hence my wanting to make sure a historian was on the panel today to help us properly contextualize this. what are your thoughts on what you have heard so far on this immigration concept. >> i'm not going to say anything about john mccain, but i think the point about political leadership is critical. the patent -- the political leadership not only sets the policy agenda, it influences the political culture we live in. arizona, then politics of paranoia or fear -- a classic southern gambit by the way, to create bogyman come easily race, race, that your criminal element or communist labor union or whatever -- that is essentially what is going on in arizona where you have a number of opportunistic politicians using the politics of fear and paranoia to gain election and promote their own campaigns. i want to tie in with the gun control thing because it started with this anti-emigrant , and it has become an anti-latino thing in arizona and i'm sure mr. wilcox can tell us about the effort in light of sandy hook to distribute guns. this is in arizona -- to distribute guns to individuals for self protection. that is part of that politics of fear and paranoia we see getting out of control. the only way to change this is we need courageous political leadership to stand up and take a firm stand and say this is not what our country is about. bluepoints you might hit for us right now as far as the history of the contribution of this particular community that if americans understood better, we have short memories -- are there bullet points about the history of the americans need to be reminded of as we have this conversation about immigration? in pointingcorrect out that latinos in this country are often seen through the prism of emigration as if we were all immigrants. but let's not forget about the alamo. are we going to forget about the alamo? texas, mexico, arizona -- how did they become part of this country? we have had not just generations, but centuries of presence here. we are in fact american. we along with our native american brothers and sisters are part of this land. that has to be brought up. immigrant analogy is a beautiful analogy because it is one that sparks hope and talks about inclusion and assimilation. but important, however let's not forget the ugly face of race that has developed over the years and it has developed because of the nation-building process of this country. we did have indian wars, we did have slavery, there was a war with mexico, there was a war with spain. incidents have had repercussions. based develop differences on those kind of physical and critical events. ago -- its like hours was an hour ago that the word environment was used three or four times. the environment he was talking about is the environment that needs to be more friendly to small business in america. the environment by want to talk about is the environment that many of these persons are talking about, these persons getting citizenship have to navigate every single day. in my research, i discovered that not unlike the african- american community or other poor communities, this issue of environmental racism is real. the conditions these persons have to work in, these conditions these persons have to live in, the conditions they have to navigate every day to live lives of meeting, worth and ,alue is another untold story another issue that doesn't come up and this conversation about why we have to focus on the humanity of these persons. so i want to make sure in this conversation we had adriaan the , i wonder if he might give me some sense of what the issues are as far as the environment that these persons have to drink and breathe and live every day that america ought to be aware of as we talk about giving these persons the same respect each one of us deserves. >> it is important and i'm glad you tie it back in to that because that's exactly it. the reason we have people dying daily is because many of these people are in the shadows. they can go unaccounted for. they can be ignored. here in the area, they have to deal with walking highestand having the as moderates and the country. same thing happens in los angeles. one out of two latinos as living in an area that does not meet air quality standards today. the reason it ties in so closely to immigration is because until we have a way to empower people to speak up for themselves, they are going to be continuously discriminated against environmentally as well. whether it is society are having to pay more for health care because you are subject to drug running through your neighborhood constantly and an absolute disregard for the health, you're going to have a disproportionate impact. farmu're talking about workers in the field, you can forget about it. in ofn go outside florida, california, anywhere, people, especially the undocumented, but people who are citizens who are bearing the brunt of environmental injustice, the only real way to empower them to speak up for themselves is to take away that because that fear is a constant and powerful oppressor. children are learning that fear early on. they're learning they can't breathe and we have a situation to askis in new york, for help and demand change, that leads into economic hardships for families. it ties in that so closely to the latino existence on so many levels because of the fact that if you are undocumented and happen to live in a neighborhood which is at the core of receiving environmental injustice, you are going to be suffering these hardships much more severely than if you have the same rights as your brothers and sisters. we will talk about this in a timely have today. tell me more because -- don't ask you specifically about the link between poverty and those conditions. >> sadly, that is really where the link lies. when we talk about the wealthy, we talk about the increase in most of this is a grown around factories by means of people wanting to be near work and be close to where the work might be. that may beommunity low in come and often african- american and latino indre bright in the middle of where the pollution is being generated. theos angeles, you have ports of los angeles bringing in hundreds of billions of dollars in goods. by virtue of the impact the shipping lines, the trucking lines that work there as well, they are impacting those communities immensely. you have an almost vicious cycle, people looking for work close to the work -- if we don't have regulations in place to make sure those communities are being protected from the pollutants being generated by the trucking are shipping, then you are going to have a tremendous impact that often directly impact your pocketbooks. you'll be losing work and pay more and health-care costs. so it is that the vicious cycle. work try to make sure we with those communities to get some regulations in place. there is no reason we need to be polluting to this level. we can be doing better. way did not plan it this when we did the seating chart. but hector was talking about the regulations that strangle business. you see where i'm going with this. she is talking about the conditions business in a gin that leads to the situation these people have to navigate every day, just the juxtaposition you guys are sitting next to each other. you can pick a fight later in the conversation. asking -- twon black and brown people, latinos for the sake of this conversation, do they just happen to live in the areas or is this benign neglect? much of this is the not in my backyard syndrome. it's not always the case, but sadly it's often the case where plant are going to cite a and you see a less politically engaged, more politically disenfranchised community which tends to be african-american, latino, and yet i immigrant community, you are going to have less resistance if you want to put your plant their warrior factory there. want to put your factory there. you will have less political influence to come up against if you are going to put it in a community that is disenfranchised vs one that is politically connected or well- to-do. >> let me segue back to these undocumented workers, no matter where they live and how we get them on a path to citizenship so they have the rights and stature and standing to press back ever more forcefully against these positions. i say back to the congressman in washington. there is a lot that has been said this is you have left at the microphone, not even going to ask a question. just go. for want to say thank you using your stature as a man of communication and debate in america for allowing us to come together. we need more friends and allies like you. [applause] i am happy. i always knew antonio was a good networker. me andbeen at it with our relationship has been very . portant as we fought in the '90s is to stop nicaraguans from being deported along with salvadorans and guatemalans, we did i get everything we wanted but we got a good start. >> and we did it the year after for the haitians. >> thank you for reminding me of that. i want to say that because it's important because we spoke about martin luther king and how important he was to me and tom gordon cesar chavez was to me -- how important he was to me at how important cesar chavez was to me. part of the problem, and we're not going to rehash the first four years of barack obama, but part of the debate was i remember my first meeting with him in march of 2009. he met with the hispanic congressional caucus right after the election and we said mr president, you are going to be judged in four years by latinos. we believe primarily not so much on how many foreclosures you stop, all of that will be important. how you have increased the progress, job opportunities, because remember we were hemorrhaging jobs. we told him all that, but we said in the end, it's going to be how you treat the weakest among us, the most vulnerable among us, our emigrants. and i'm so proud to have been a member of a group of people that said that because it was pretty prophetic. think he did not see us within the context of the civil rights movement. he sought may be of a labor dispute or a thing of the need workers here and this company workers there and we just need to balance it out and figure out how we do that. i don't know, i'm not going to once as his mind, but black people came forward and said i am here, you're going to have to recognize me at the lunch counter and young people and others said i am here and you're going to have to recognize my presence in america, it humanized our immigration debates even for the president of the united states in the end. but at the same time, we need republicans and democrats. there are 500,000 and people today who are free from deportation because the president issued the executive order on the first action. [applause] and it is nothing to sneeze at. over 250,000 of them live up to real -- live freer today. they can go to arizona and honk the horn right outside the governor's mansion. it's important that we celebrate -- it's a reflection of people and even teaching the president of the united states, a black man, this is what a civil rights movement for us. having said that, we need votes because i remember when they came to the white house and we were trying to pass the newly elected senator from florida, he had a proposal for the dream act. it wasn't anything perfect. it was less than the dream act. when the white house said it's not perfect, it doesn't lead to citizenship. i said you might have a rubio problem, but as immigrants, we have a deportation problem. legislation stop the deportation, i support the legislation even that come -- even if it comes from a republican sector. we need to embrace a friends and allies who are ready to step forward and not question their motivation but embrace their solidarity in helping people because in the end, this whole butte is not about us, every day, 1400 people are deported. today. oing to happen airs, 10,000,ram 20,000, 30,000 more. it has a crushing, debilitating, devastating affect on our families. i am working with republicans and i'm happy that antonio said it's going to be complicated usause in the end, all of are going to have to say to ourselves we have to get the best proposals, the greatest good for the greatest number of people done. i stop them from being deported and legalize them, that's the first step, giving them a work permit, a social security card, the right to travel, the right to unionize and organize themselves in a collective bargaining, the right to know that in the morning they're going to be able to come, the number-one crime prosecuted by the federal government is illegal entry into the added states. what do you expect when you deport 1.6 billion people and those ben n -- they're trying to return to their wives and children and that they face that desert and try to get back to their family. [applause] what you have just said raises a question being hotly debated as to whether or not you can separate those two things -- can you separate path to citizenship from border patrol? >> here's what i hope i think we can do. i had an interesting conversation with congressman ryan. >> paul ryan? >> paul ryan. way, has been a supporter of immigration reform. was senator kennedy, inain and senator flake 2005, it was bipartisan, we did it together. congressman paul ryan who just ran for vice president of the united states and i know we can all debate his budget, he was an original sponsor of comprehensive immigration reform. isaw him in the gym and this why i am optimistic -- he comes up to me and he knows i did everything i could to get barack obama reelected. i travel around the country and did everything i could to tell latinos to come out and vote for barack obama and i'm glad it. the barack obama i've always been waiting for. i have a great degree of love for him in spite of my criticism for him and i wish him the best and his presidency for this nation. in the house gym and he says to me i saw you yesterday and you said republicans should do immigration reform to take it off the table so you guys don't run the table with immigration or because it's the right thing to do. he said i want to do it int is why i joined you 2005. this question of citizenship, toomey, one thing we have in catholic ande both our faith is important to us. allow that to exist in america, and i think it's a very powerful that it happened. week, a, this past congressman from alaska said, when i was picking tomatoes with my dad back l.e.d. 1940's we would get 40-50 wetbacks together. here's what i want to say about that -- >> i figured you would. a conservative republican from the south calls me and said, how are you doing? it's good friday, a very solemn day. he said, i called you because i wanted to sam sorry. i'm sorry for those purple comments that were made. i know that they hurt you. i want to apologize for what that man said. was, what asave wonderful gift. i want to reveal a conversation without revealing names. things are changing. republican party on november 6th that said we should take the laws in arizona and replicate them all over. they should just pick up their bags and closed the port. and if the dream act ever hits my desk, i will veto it. from that to taking responsibility for something really did not think was his, it was the most wonderful easter gift than those on the basis of that kind of confrontation that we're going to create a platform of a comprehensive immigration reform. >> we do see the reaction, the quickness, the harshness of the reaction from republican ofdership to those comments the congressman from alaska. let's say his name. congressman young, if you're watching this on tv, the only time my back gets wet is when i am in my marble bathtub. when john boehner said -- i don't care what he said, he needs to apologize. john cornyn, john mccain, the list goes on. there were demanding an apology and condemning those words, that was not happening. and least wrap up, there's a level of conversation, right? before they were there, we were here and that was it. back to you, professor. finally do come up with a proposal, it's going to be a proposal and there are going to be some things antonio will not like. there's going to be some things i do not like. you know, in the end, i still remember that undocumented mexicans who said to me, get it done. everyday i fear that i will not be with my children again another day to raise them. get me my papers. even if it is a deal that treats me poorly, my daughter and my sons will take care of those who treated me miserably, but let me raise them in america. we need to understand who our constituents are. they are the most vulnerable. we need to bring them out of the shadows and give them protection. i think we can get the citizenship thing down. we are working. then we can work on expanding this, i believe. we are so young. we have many good more years to give america in terms of social justice. >> i want to ask two questions about the lands and prism we see this through. -- lens and prism. we are getting old. tell me about the effort he just tagunced to get the price it lowered on the papers. it has gone up. during the obama administration it went up. tell me very quickly what happened. to the congress in 1993 it was a $90. >> $90 for papers. that signed upon in 1986, it kept going up and up. the congress of the united states decided they will not spend one of taxpayer-funded dollar on helping people become american citizens. they want them to learn english, learn about the constitution, and the always question the loyalty, but they will not spend $1 in helping you take that step. >> what is the cost now? >> $700. dickies family, a couple of kids, you're talking thousands of dollars. "the new yorkt in times" with my mayor, rahm emmanuel. >> he has come around. >> that we tell you something. he has. he has come around on the issue and he is making chicago one of the friendliest immigrants cities in the nation and it is in no small part of our community and acknowledging his roots. we put an op-ed in "the new york times." if you have a green card and you just want to stay for another 10 years but you do not want to make that commitment, i don't want to marry you, that costs $200 less. make a commitment to america and you want to embrace ittizen, completely, why should that cost more than someone who just wants to keep a temporary relationship? we think the priorities are not set correctly and we should make it the priority american citizenship which leads to voter registration and taking our growing numbers and a growing power with them. >> i wanted the audience to know and i wanted to know what the number was and how we get it back down. two questions about the lens, the prism. one? thomas, one for david. thomas.uestion for i mentioned for the c-span viewers, there are two panels. the second panel will be moderated with eight other brilliant thought leaders and opinion makers in the latino community. no shortage of them. day,re talking the other and i think it was fernand know who made the point that perhaps the prism -- fernando who made the point that perhaps the prism we view this through was all wrong. we need to look at it from the other direction, from america are coming from the country's perspective. it is not about doing the immigrant a favor. there are all kinds of arguments to be made from the other side. talk to me about the distinction, the difference between looking at it this way versus the other way. does that make sense? >> absolutely. emigration has always historically been a bipartisan issue. a bipartisann is issue. it is about defining the country. that is the important prison to look at this issue. it is not what it means for those immigrants, that those parents can come home every day confident they will not be taken the next day and their children left alone. no one can deny how critically important it is. it's equally important to the country that we have an immigration system that serves the country and reflects our values. i think that is why, over the years come a week ago -- when we come to a consensus about changing the system that is true bipartisan cooperation that we reflect the america we are and the america we want to be. we have the opportunity in 201 3. the election itself was a reflection that we need to have a critical immigration policies that reflect our country and what it needs to be. that means ensuring that those millions of people who had been here making contributions and, not just contributions for society, but making their own commitment and investment in our country's future, raising their families here, investing in small businesses, that we reward those people with the protections that they need to ensure they continue to thrive and contribute to this country and that their children contribute. it also means having a future system of immigration that best reflects the country we want to be. in my view, one issue that has to be discussed is that means eliminating the national origin quota. the fact we have got is why you have not won , when they refer to waiting in line as though it were one line, i would get ready to storm the stage. >> for those who do not understand what it means, explain nation of origin. >> the system gives you a different line to wait in based on the country were coming from. those with a higher demand to emigrate because of proximity, social connections, they have longer to wait. if your potential immigrant from mexico as opposed to someone from another country, you will be waiting much, much longer. some of these which are 20 years and more. >> is that racist? >> i believe it is. i think this premise would be rejected, but we should no longer do that. these policies are above the america we have been, and that is why i think we are at a critical point where there will be some bipartisan consensus about making critical changes. >> i was curious as to your take on the congressman's comments about the fact that he did not believe when barack obama first ran that he saw this issue as a civil right. but tragic that he did not, i digress. again, back to the notion of the prism, how does it help us? how does it aid and abet if we see this issue for what it is, what it ought to become a verses with the conversation has been about? >> it means that there's greater common ground about creating the kind of country that we really want to have children and grandchildren growing up in. it's about, and understanding, common values, shared principles. -- is about, and understanding. the we saw in arizona is demonization of an entire community including people who have been here for generations, demonization around the issue of immigration. in 2010, the exact same year theyna passed s.b. 1070, were targeting specifically hispanics in the tucson district. mexican-american studies is going to be reinstituted in the tucson school district. [applause] totally under the radar. they also passed on their ballot a measure to eliminate affirmative-action in higher education in arizona in 2010. those three things and others are connected. they are all civil rights issues and only one directly relates to emigration, but they all stem from this demographic fear of being ruthlessly and irresponsibly exploited by the governor, the sheriff, and others to engage in a wholesale assault on civil rights. i think it's important when understand today that this is really about civil rights in this country. civil rights, again, is what kind of a country we want to be. that has had ary lot of struggles to make us more true to the promise of equity, equality for everyone and this toas critical we are closer the principle as anything. >> another question about prison, david. -- the prism. nowme just say this here and reiterate what i said earlier. one reason why i wanted to be a part of this conversation and reached out to antonio as i often feel like we suggest talking about immigration, but the mainstream media has to do a better job, and much better job. on cnn aswe see ana often as we do. it has been important for me to be a part of this talk and because these people, who may not yet be household names company to be seen, need to be heard. only by hearing that the assumptions we have can be reexamined. it is only that our inventory ideas can be expanded, only by hearing and seeing we can introduce americans to each other, bringing together the best and brightest to help change the image, the perception, that so many people have of this particular community which leads me to my question about image, in thetion, back to ana conversation about the congressman who use the term "what back -- "wetback." what was his name? >> don young. >> it was his perception based upon his history, his age, his relationship. he had a particular perception. how much of this debate has to do with the prism through which many americans look at the latino community? >> i hope that congressman people whoill tell do not think of their citizens, imagine what they think of latinos? >> they want to see his birth certificate. >> the arizona legislature almost passed a bill for this. then, ariz. puts together ethnic studies. they don't want to learn the history. enough guns. they're trying to build a bigger, better border fence. it is all sort of woven together. ,etting back to the perception in 1994, california passed a proposition 187, and anti- immigrant bill, and one of the first to set off a whole chain of other bills. arizona followed soon. though itn 187, even was asking teachers and medical personnel to report perspective on documented, but once it passed, empowered all those people -- prospective undocumented. and -- it empowered them to take the law in their own hands. pharmacists were asking for papers. we talked about perception. it gets back to the political leadership point. the perception is influenced by our political leadership. wilson,ime, governor saying raising the flag and saying we are being inundated, then guess what? you're going to have a significant proportion of the electorate believing it. is shaped and it can be shaped opportunistic plea, unfortunately. opportunistically. >> i want to go to ana. i wonder since your a professor whether or not here on national television you would give us a reading assignment. if there were one or two texts. you have time to think about it. if there were texts you might want to recommend we were on a campus, books you want to recommend that the american should read. when you run for office, the american public likes to know what you were reading. what should we as americans be reading in this critical time of a conversation that could help us with our ignorance, maybe even our of ignorant -- our arrogance, but more knowledge about what we are up against. you think about that and come back to me later with what is on the syllabus. while we're talking about perception, we are in the media all the time, but there is a role here that madison avenue plays that they are responsible for. the perception of latinos and we know how they're portrayed in movies, often portrayed on television. again, those images are powerful, as you well know, and it seems to me, and the data seems to suggest, that there is an ongoing concern, no different in my community, a concern about how you are portrayed in the media. to what extent does that impact the way that the american public views this community? unfortunately, we're talking about putting images in silos. unfortunately, oftentimes come minorities are put into that where we are asked about emigration or cuban-americans are asked. one thing i appreciate about cnn is i get asked to talk on any of the political issues. yesterday i was talking on should president obama have said whether harris was the best looking a.g. in the natino. i just want to say your the best looking congressman. we have to battle, whether you are a northeasterner, southerner, african-american, hispanic, asian, every group passed the battle a stereotyped in being seen as cut from one big costs. when i got to cnn, the people who liked me started sending in sexy latino my accent. the people who did not like me knowingeet about my mexican accent. well, i'm not mexican. not every hispanic in the united states is of hispanic descent. frankly, i did not know i had an accent. everyone in miami talks like me. what accent? [laughter] i think it's very important that people who are in the media tried to do as much as possible as people who do have a public platform, tried to do as much as possible to increase the perception, to vary the perception, show for example that there can be a puerto rican congressman, a democrat in chicago, and a pr and mormon republican elected in idaho. cuban elected democrat senator from new jersey and a cuban american senator elected in florida and a cuban elected senator in texas and they can be completely different in ideology as, in fact, they are. i think as our leadership and gains ground, for example, my congresswoman she is the chairman of foreign relations. she was talking to heads of state and was often in the media talking about the middle east and issues with international importance. any chance any of us get to be toe to expand that prism share the variation, there's a lot that brings us together, a common heritage, common traditions, commager values -- common values. we cannot even agree whether we are hispanic or latino. that is a question that affect all of us. i'm very grateful for what you're doing here today because i think -- you know, for too long, our community, the african-american community, there has been a wedge. people have tried to pit us against each other. we can walk and so much further, talks a much stronger comer -- so much higher, if we do it together by holding hands. >> i think you chose the best place. >> i don't know about that. miami is 80 degrees and sunny. >> so is l.a. has a rich tradition of puerto rican migrants. my mom and dad came here not speaking english in the 1950's fleeing puerto ricans and coming to chicago. they confronted all the same prejudice, bigotry, barriers that any other immigrant, documented or not, it experienced, but there is a large history of a mexican community here. here is an el salvadorian and guatemalans communities here. most of the latinos in his congressional district are also puerto ricans, not true. in their decided on rent -- 11 different occasions to send me. that means we are overcoming some of our own standing barriers that divide ourselves, that we've really are a community setting and going to vote for someone who represents my interests and whose voice is reflective of the issues i want raised. that is why i say that about chicago. it's a wonderful experience of a melting pot of latinos. >> i'm laughing. i'm glad there is puerto ricans and mexicans getting along. now if i could get the dark skinned and the light skinned negro is to get along, we could maybe get somewhere. issue of foreign policy. yourself, when is the last time you saw a stage full of latinos talking about foreign policy. let's talk about it for a second. is headed to venezuela in a few days and we all know the passing of hugo chavez, there is great conversation and consideration, concern really, about what happens in the region. there is a broader conversation about u.s. policy in latin america, in central america. there's a lot we could talk about. since we're talking about it, what are you going to venezuela for? the will be part of observation process, invited by the national electoral council for the elections in venezuela one week from tomorrow. i will be visiting polling places and so forth. my organization has a 20-year- old developer program that exposes and latino leaders to other countries. we have done a lot of work in mexico, central american, the caribbean, venezuela, observing elections, providing technical assistance, and so forth. you're right. it's a very crucial moment. although a hugo chavez was demonized in the united states, in latin america, there's quite a different perspective on not only hugo chavez but his reform process spreading in south and central america. they call it the pink revolution. party that hasst been voted in a democratic process and it has instituted change, redistributed wealth, reclaim the natural resources ,rom transnational corporations voted in a new, progressive constitution. it seems to be an enduring process that started with chavez, spread to brazil, that rgentina, uruguay, perou, bolivia, ecuador. in essence, we're looking at the beginnings of a european community-type of situation in south america that still has relations with the united states, but much of the trade is among themselves and to other developing countries. will it continue? that's the question. will it reverts back to what many would consider u.s.- nomination of the region. i will give you a report when i get back. put out these handy blue mentioned trading moment ago. go toof u.s. exports latin america. 40% of exports go to latin america. , a fullhe population 40% in venezuela, argentina, mexico, argentina, they do not trust the u.s. government. what about the years to come in on relations with this region in latin america? americans have a healthy distrust of americans for a reason. it has a 150-year history of military intervention or unfair economic relations with many, many latin american countries. the worlddia into view of latin americans. at the same time, there is an admiration for american prosperity, american democracy. it is sort of a schizophrenic view. it changes depending on american leadership. american leadership has been very mixed toward latin america, even with this administration. he did not stand up when there was the to in honduras. -- the coup in honduras. administration, they are seen to be complacent in the coup in venezuela. this president committed to doing more. the latin americans want a better relationship, but it sits on a history that is very bittersweet. the breadthof cuba, and depth of u.s. business is chomping at the bit to get that cue ball. we don't know when it will happen, when that is, but everyone is poised to run to keelboat and americanize it as quickly, as aggressively as we possibly can. your thoughts about u.s. relations with cuba in the coming months and years as we move past, eventually, the castro era. >> i do not think it's a question of if but when. a lot of my friends in florida are much closer to this issue. things have been opening up and i think one of the things you second and third generation cuban-americans have a very different perspective and opinion of what cuba is all about now and in the future. a lot of the businesses to get there will be late because the europeans have been in there making investments and building things. by and away, i think it would be a mistake for us to think once the situation opens in cuba and that we're going to go in and be embraced and everyone will be so glad the americans are here and think they can do things they could never do before. there are generations in cuba of to have a mixed perception of what the u.s. can do. i want to go slumped -- back to something antonio said. we have to engage latin-american much, much more than ever before. the world has changed. yes, there is some history in latin america. when i am there, i tell them they have to change, too, become more competitive. a lot of those who harbor ill will to the united states harbor ill will to their government as well. with a country like mexico, it's critically important. we share a 2000-mile border with them and they are our second- largest trading partner. a lot of times when we look at mexico, we hear the bad news, and there is especially along the border with the drug war, but there are also incredible things happening there as well. the federal reserve bank has taken a totally different view as an opportunity. europe is unified, the asian countries are unified. we need to unify in the americas. an ambassador from the united states to mexico, geoffrey book, "therote a bear and a porcupine," describing the relationship between the united states and mexico. the example was that united states was the bear, this big hamas lumbering animal but sometimes neglects its little neighbor to the south, sometimes steps on it unintentionally. it does not harbor ill will, but sometimes make mistakes they are not aware. and mexico was the porcupine, the small animal always on the defensive, paranoid, trying to protect itself. i think there is an incredible opportunity for us to do much, much more in that part of the world. we need to do so for economic etc. , are secure future, >> let me talk on cuba, being from miami, it's an issue very close to my heart. i came here from nicaragua in 1980 and we were kicked out by the communists there. among so manyised cuban-americans in miami, the victims of fidel castro, political prisoners come the children of those visitors come the children of people executed by the castro government. as to your question of when we're going to go there, we will win it is free. we will not get there early. we will be there right on time. the cuban people will know the difference between governments with a repressive regime has taken away the human rights and dignities for 54 years and a government that has stood against it. cuba,not going to go into not even if president obama wants to do it. the am -- the embargo is codified. for example, the release of political prisoners and the recognition of political parties, the scheduling of fair and transparent elections. that is the kind of country we are. we will not look the other way when ahmadinejad is setting up camps in places like cuba and venezuela. what has happened for far too long in democratic and republican administrations, i'm tired of hearing political candidates tell me how much attention they're going to pay to latin-american only to put it in the bucket of neglect once they get elected. so many of the things happen and there's always an excuse. thatnk we cannot forget just 90 miles from the shores of florida live people who have lived without freedom for 54 years. wonder, because oftentimes we do not connect these thoughts, but i wonder how our relations, or lack thereof, with a country like mexico ultimately impact of the domestic agenda, how that relationship internationally impact what happens in a state like arizona. >> when the governor came out speaking against state bill 1070 and spoke against the undocumented people, it was a relationship between the border and upstate. we have always had very good relationships and it's tremendous. basically came to a halt. we have to respect on both sides of the border and that was not seen for a very long time. going back a little bit to further comments that were said, we will see immigration reform happened because of the economics of it. the economics have affected arizona and the rest of the nation. you will see it pass. that's why we're in a position and we have the leverage because of money talks. it is necessary for business to have immigration reform. i think we will get it, but we must look at the border also. there are misconceptions that the border is so unsafe yet we and thrown national guard's immigration workers -- i'm sorry. janet napolitano has put a lot of forces on the border and i really feel it safe. you can ask the mayor is a border towns and you can see that we stop to the extreme element. trade the ebb and flow of that has been stopped. we have to have respect so we can build. the other thing is drugs. we have seen an influx of cartels and we have to get a hold of that money going in and out. the drug problem in america is driving that whole issue and that is something we have to work together wrong. do you take our so-called drug war seriously? as a joke take them because i have seen the devastating effects of them, but i do think sometimes they are exaggerated for political purposes and we need to get to the systemic cause and stop it there. that goes into health issues, education issues, and poverty that we see. we cannot make drugs attractive to people when they have nothing else. >> i see a bunch of hands. david, thomas, antonio. >> dimension americans don't have a good grasp of history and we do not -- you mentioned americans don't have a good grasp of history. what's the relationship between nafta, the north american free trade agreement, and the influx of immigrants in mexico? what happened as a result of nafta? thanstern corn is cheaper corn in mexico is a you have the displacement of hundreds of thousands of corn growers who are now left without jobs, without a livelihood, and you're basically forced to emigrate. we have to get a better grasp of the implications of our trade policies with countries like mexico. >> it's worth noting that some much of our foreign policy, with relation to cuba, for example, relates to domestic policies in that country, but we do not pay attention to how our policies have employed -- international implications. our drug policy and implications through latin america is the most pronounced example. it goes beyond that. as we have the continued debate, we have to recognize that our immigration policies have an effect in other countries. when you deport 1.6 million reported prior to being convicted. those deportations, those removals, have an impact on those countries that, in turn cut down the line will have an impact on our country because it will trigger further immigration. remittances that come, sending money back to their families, and that has an economic impact in those foreign countries. if we recognize that as an international relations issue, we would be doing much more to foster those types of remittances. instead, what we see are these proposals at state and federal levels that would punish remittances by putting impositions on them and making it difficult to impose on that kind of transfer. the domestic policy we follow on immigration has an impact on other countries, and i think we would end up with a policy that better serves our interests and the interests of those countries. >> the number one expression of the point that you're asking, the relationship between our power in latin america has to be the 40-year-old drug war. america, it has doubled or tripled the population. instead of spending money on schools, wheat spending on prisons, 10 times as much to house a prisoner than to educate a child. >> and many of them brown. >> and black. >> of course. america, for example, it has made marijuana worth more than gold. you do that by creating a black market and putting military and police forces to support the black market in the united states and to create a criminal enterprise. it has already fostered one more fostermbia and is now and another in mexico. hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. who would have thought, right? go back to the civil rights movement and there's always a resistance to american military intervention in latin america. there is more military intervention today behind the drug more than there ever was when it was the specter a fighting communism. have are consequences we created which is why we are worried about bad policies getting enacted. here is a bad policy enacted that has never been fixed. it just gets worse and worse. it has brought the prison populations of nonviolent offenders. it has fostered gains in our communities, chicago being a good example. it has fostered wars in latin america. where is all this money going? it is in the pocket of the cartel. just say thisnd i in general, but sometimes i worry about when we get together and talk about the big stuff, because it sounds like we're talking about like we are victims, we are oppressed, we are excluded. the other side of history is that this community is getting empowered. this community is fighting back and self organizing. the reason you have a change in the media and more latino voices, it start with the immigrants bring in 2006. and going back to 2010, the iceberg in the ocean and the turbocharged election results in 2012 all because the people getting organized, fighting back, winning. you see that even in the drug war in places like colorado, washington, with marijuana being legalized. it will happen in california. you have to end drug prohibition. >> i want a quick answer, but i want to ask this question. you used a phrase that i love about the latino community which makes it somewhat different from the black experience, as we were comparing it to earlier vis-a- vis the civil rights movement, and it is the beautiful phrase of self organizing. about civilalk rights without talking about martin luther king, jr. he was our leader. in give torifices the point of giving their lives. some known and some not unknown. i do not mean that he was all that and then some doing it all by himself, but you cannot do so without work -- regarding him as the leader of the movement. yet, in this moment, i see all of this energy and enthusiasm. i do not see a latino leader. i see in the self organizing that is, in fact, happening with everyone doing his or her part. self organizing is a beautiful thing. to us thatys happens latinos get put into what i call the black-white paradigm. communitiesr those get applied to latinos. what i want to suggest to you is america has to realize that that paradigm and worked for them now, but this is now. the latinos are 50 million people. it showed me any country in the world and you ask them who their leader is and you say, there's not just one. who is the martin luther king of the latino community? gutierrezeek, it luis if he can legalize a path to citizenship in 2013, it will be him. he should run for president. the tongue in cheek remarked, the strike is that it tends to be organized differently. hugo chavez asked me this. to organize the million marchers in los angeles in 2006? there was not an answer. $10 leaders organized 100 people each? horizontal organization makes us resilience. and allows us to resist 1070 and win. it allows us to resist e-verify. it allows us to resist these programs that you take to heart, but you cannot, because we're very horizontal. we are not vertical. maybe someone will emerge. the year as is my first choice a pecan: off. >> no pressure. >> -- if he can pull it off. maybe it's rubio. different from martin luther king's time was it was 15 million people and now it is 50 million. brevity is not our forte. and going towards what you're saying, i think another distinction between the two communities is the culture connection. we can look back at what's happening in latin america and see the ups and downs, being more engaged. we must be more engaged. even within second and third generations, there is a tremendous cultural connection to another land, to my home country. actionf what we see in here among latinos comes from how people view us in latin america. our family is expecting us to do wherever we may be from? that actually impact the way we act. we see a lot of optimism coming from latin america and motivating more activism here simply because of what they have seen in latin america. while sometimes what you see are exemplary actions, even above and beyond what's happening here, mexico has the climate law and the u.s. is still ignoring climate change as a crisis. say,n look at mexico and they can do it, so we can do it here. not you arer experiencing something different than i am experiencing. whenever i have discussions about the environment and invariably, you and i live in l.a., so the environment tends to see a white, west side movement. it's a bunch of white folk leading the environment movement when we all know that when the all drink thewe same water. when the air is bad, white people do not have white hair, black hair, brown hair. we all have skin in the game. -- white air, black air, brown air. ofand large, this notion even the simple stuff, reduce, reuse, recycle much less climate change and global warming, it is not something people have at the top of their agenda, for the reasons that you know. the me some sense of how these issues are coming on in your community. i raise that, one, because i'm just curious, but i sense if we could never figure out a way to really make green jobs worked, your community benefits from that. the african-american community benefits. we are not just up against the same evils, but the same opportunities exist if and when we ever get to a place where these issues are raised high enough on the agenda. >> green jobs would help people get out of poverty and we need to get there for our communities. what has happened historically is the way we talk about the environment has been in this ephemeral way that does not make it a day to day issue. a day- community, it's to-day issue. is the water clean? if you lived in latin america, you have either had water rationing or electricity rationing. it is not always plenty. if you live in poverty, you have the same experience. never been the way environmentalism has been approached in the united states. it is the water we are drinking. it is more of something of a conservation perspective. however, when you talk to people about if they care about the mountains, the water, the air, our communities care above and beyond three or four fold above what the white community cares about. some of it is a cultural issue. we have in our hearts. if we are talking about the health of our kids come up parks in our neighborhood, clean water accessible to everyone. that is when you get to it, sustainability, having produce for our communities. canecomes an issue that we all wrap their heads around. that's what we hope to do to really get everybody engaged. just on this point, this issue, the environment, it is one where we see a clear allusion of latino politics. in the last few years we have seen a dramatic move in latino politics because we are more empowered. as more latinos take positions of power in city and state governments, there at the forefront of implementing grain policy. that this was a latino-lead in california. that the nation's leading climate along or one of the leading urban river revitalization project was a latino-lead in los angeles. there is a green east los in latino culture even though we do not use the word. we do not see the environment as people are the problem. we see people at the core of the solution of the problem but because we transition from victim to being empowered. speak to you want to sustainability. maybe you can link these two together. i will sit back and listen, but i want you to link these two together. speak to the issue of sustainability, but we talked about the issue being important because of our children. live in thesel environmental reasons and in our mental racism is real. i was reading the other day, ,hich made my jaw just dropped a particular senator who had suggested, maybe something he has proposed as a bill now, but a particular united states senator from alabama who shall go unnamed, senator sessions, has apparently said that he's againned that even once on the other side of the citizenship fight that these persons ought not be allowed access to health care. that concerns me that a united states senator would dare suggest that once we get on the other side of this he is already putting a stake in the ground. you ain't going to get new health care. that's going forward. so you have this idea going forward that want to get over this, no health care for you. we'll remember this moment. people on the stage remember it perhaps better than some of us, but remember when president obama is giving the state of the union speech and the guy in the audience yells out -- you lie. you remember this. was made him say "you lie" the reference that president obama made to the fact that health care, this law, was not going to be readily available to anyone in this country illegally. it is not available for those who are here illegally and the congressman jumped up and said that. why do i raise this? of all the things president barack obama said in the speech that he had to disagree with, the thing that really got his eye was the very idea that the president would dare say that this would not happen. they know it is then they will fight. a few years ago, this health care issue already has this color-coded notion connected to it. now going forward, you have senators suggesting that you should not get health care on the other side of the citizenship fight. and to me about health care where we are heading for this particular community. >> that's why i'm happy to see elected from california because he sees things differently. new members of the hispanic caucus that have come forward from this last election are a breath of fresh air. i like the new blood that has come in because they are not so interested in committee assignments or whether they're going to be speaker, governor, ambassador, but about health care. it's going to be a critical five we will be having as we sit down with our republican colleagues to see how it is we can provide health care. i still remember that moment because i was on the house floor but my daughter jessica called me up and said, did you cause commotion with the president? he said illegal aliens were not going to get any health care, so i figured that was your job. i said it was not me, a congressman from south carolina who thought it was lying. i voted for obamacare in spite of the fact that he set aside an important vulnerable community of hours. -- of ours. it was to get something done. , ii took last and i say that did not stand up the sale was going to vote against it. we negotiated. we figured out ways to get our community health care centers to provide health care for them in the interim, but sometimes difficult decisions have to be .ade that are wrong i voted for him. i think it's important. look. i voted for everything barack obama has proposed in the congress of the united states. if the proposed comprehensive immigration reform, i would have done whatever job he gave me to do to get it done. two, barack obama lives in the congress of the united states. if he says tomorrow, i propose sunlight in the darkest days of winter, republicans would vote against it. that's just the way the congress is in this particular point. thiso want to try to put conversation in some kind of context of the civil rights movement in a kind of if there is no voting rights act, because i don't get to the chicago city council because the democrats got together and that it's time to have latinos, we had to sue the democratic party of the city of chicago and every big democrat right here in the inform ourhave to fight not in terms of republicans and democrats, though there are particular alliances that are important. that's how we got there, by fighting democrats to gain seats. there was a black mayor of the city of chicago named harold washington that -- you know what he said? he said what are you going to tell your lawyer to do in federal court today, plead guilty? because that's what we are. very guilty of discriminating against latinos. we need to have a conversation. if people aren't lynch and churches aren't burned and people are not brutalized and attack by dogs in order to get civil rights and voting rights, i don't have a voice in the united states. we should inform our fight and this is a continuation. when i joined the congress of the united states, i did not join congress to become speaker of the house or become a senator or a governor. i joined the congress because i wanted to make someone's life bigger. , remember my mom and my dad what it was like in that the '50s and '60s in chicago for them. died to giveht and me a voice and i'm not going to waste that opportunity in the congress of the united states. reform the political leadership -- why can't he just like dr. -- who- with these pretty health. reading of is other thing i want to say we have important friends and allies. of remember of the black caucus voted for the dream act when it was proposed in 2010 and we passed it in the house of representatives in spite of the fact that unemployment among black youth was higher and unemployment in the devastation of the economy was there. they stood with us. >> let me ask you a question -- antonio davis something to think about. i was wrestling with it. that's this notion of horizontal leadership verses vertical leadership in the community. i see the advantages. but there are also challenges. they had the same criticism levelled against them. they came, they were strong, and it went. they had a horizontal leadership structure. people did keep asking what do you want? who is your spokesperson? the same is true for vertical. your thoughts on antonio framework -- and outcrop -- on antonio's from work. >> i've ever seen a community- based organization as a threat or a competitor, but an ally and a friend in this fight. their criticism, i accept that criticism that will hopefully make me a better congressman and better public servant. thingr stand one fundamentally. just months before the passage of the civil rights legislation, there was a march on washington d.c. i remember martin luther king coming to chicago in 1968. even as a young man, i remember in june, the unfortunate riots in the porter rican community anduse of police brutality the porter rican community, i remember him coming a couple of months later. i remember how they are all tied together, our fight and our struggle, i don't look at the but from as any thing a historical point of view. i and others like us that our congress people are going to vote on the legislation needed more than ever for the consistent and persistent demand to be raised to a level for congress to act. that horizontal structure does not bother you? >> i think it helps facilitate success of our community. >> there was a powerful statement about what it took in this country to get the civil rights law passed and the voting rights law passed. the dogs and of water hoses and the jail cells and listings. -- chicago understands this struggle better than anybody. the question i was thinking is if it took all of that in after hearing what supervisor wilcox said why does it have to take all of that now? why does it have to take all of this humanity, degradation and devastation? does it really have to take all of that now? >> i'm afraid so. change often times it comes through conflict. it comes through a clash of perspectives. i'm thinking of arizona, where we have an older generation who just realize arizona is next door and they are reacting to it. int's going to happen arizona, california or texas? even if we don't have all of tose events, change is going happen because we have the under generation coming up. they look at president obama very differently. white paradigm has them s shift. i think that is happening. we don't need to have these dramatic upheavals to have changed. i think the paradigm has already shifted and there is a new contract already being built. let me come back before i go -- any issue of education brown is in the mx. longer america puff favorite minority, and i am ok with that. my feelings are hurt. we least that a black president out of it. this is your time. the bad is it is with that you surrounded, the good news is we come in peace. >> i like that. >> speaking of coming in peace, there is conflict in communities and cities in the community -- black and brown trying to peacefully coexist. when community moving in, one community moving out. they're living on top of each other in dense areas in chicago -- the wonder if you have any thoughts on the years to come and how black folks and brown folks, how are we going to do this dance over the coming years? >> there is a competition for scarce resources. think the congressman pointed this out earlier -- there are politicians that try to pit one community against the other and try to play the blame game. at going to be the competition. we see this -- there is an announcement of 200 jobs, you -- do you think there is solidarity? happened at that community level. the reason it has not percolated up is because of the political leadership. the black and brown leadership understand. we have to work together here. we are united. >> there are two ways of seeing it. either the glass is half-empty or the glass is half full. theke to focus on cooperation between african- american organizations like the naacp and urban league and i la razaen the head of joined john lewis and retrace the steps back in alabama. i've seen african-american congress people join hands with republican cuban-americans in asking for the freedom of cuba. i think there are many joint projects and we're getting used to being allies and not just being competitors. we are being smarter. two speakalized that louder than one. if you have ever been to a black and brown party, it doesn't get much more fun than that. >> we have the man who pushed the martin luther king holiday in arizona. came and knocked on our door and said we need to come together. we have formed a black-brown coalition. it's two years old and is the strongest thing anyone has ever seen. what has gone on in arizona made people come together. the civil rights violation, the african-american community knew how to battle more than we did and we are part of a very strong coalition and it is a lot of fun. when you go into an office, they look at you, a look at patrick stewart and say what have we done? it's good power. my favorite event in washington may be the black caucus gala. great, the food is great, the music is great, the people are great. it's a good combination. its one example where conflict was averted. it was all going to come to a head where latino interests were going to conflict in california, illinois and other parts of the country at the local level. finally going to consider. disagreements, but at the end of the day, that conflict was not there. -- as it leadership visited 50 cities, there were african-american with me. charlotte, n.c., week that people back because of our collaboration. tois very important highlight the many moments in which we collaborating very closely and i think it is going to be critical to get comprehensive immigration reform because there is no more important constituent groups. >> part of what makes this conversation so important is because there is a new generation coming on. i keep mentioning for those watching on c-span that this is one of two panels that make up latina nation. i'm glad to be moderating this conversation, but there's another panel and on that panel, there are eight other brilliant thinkers in the latino communities. i'm glad that we found her. the university help me find the right person. there happens to be a latina here who is the student representative on the board of trustees for this institution. .he will be on the second panel we're going to get her perspective and see how they trusteeo her and a member here. more broadly speaking, you can't have this conversation the on the numbers. full 25% at our u.s. schools are latino. conversation one has to have it. give us a sense of where we are headed in the coming years on the issue of education. about is fore talk naught if you cannot get access to an equal, high-quality education. >> i am encouraged in part by the fact that the dreamers have been engaged in activism. this is not just the most successful immigrants rights movement, it's the most vibrant youth movement in about 40 years. there is a real opportunity to take that energy and have expanded into education access and closing the education gap. looking at this from the perspective of the nation will not successfully addressed the education that, a kindergarten through 12th grade, if we don't address that issue, this country will not thrive in the future. we have no choice but to ensure our future work force is skills -- is skilled and educated to compete. we have to pay attention to african-american latino students who are not receiving the same education as their white peers. we see this across the country. fourth, fifth, sixth lawsuit against the texas school system just occurred because of these disparities and financing that makes real differences and the experience of latino and african-american students in certain school district vs. more wealthy school districts. lawsuitsr, five, six that were successful, there is still work to be done. a suit just came out against a student -- that concluded there was an adequate investment, particularly in english language learners. you still see those disparities and regrettably, we don't have a system for solving the education gap that we need. as a lifelong civil rights believer, my entire profession has been devoted to that. if litigation is germane accountability mechanism, you are going to fail. that's the main way to address those issues. law we need is a federal that focuses on the education gap. , yet ioleheartedly agree have to bring you back to reality, which is the comparison we have made between the struggle of latino community verses the civil rights era. those advantages -- those advances in legislation were brought on by litigation. i think litigation is critically important, but we have to use the organizing to arrive at a policy solution that is there in policy and practice. 50 state systems and thousands of local systems that are addressed in the education gap issues. i'm not asking is because of your politics. i'm asking is because you're a businessman and want to get inside your business head and explain something to me that i maybe don't get. society doesn't find a way to educate this population, and our society becomes ever more dumbed down, the country suffers. at the not looking standpoint of the immigrant. what happens to us is if we don't figure the problem al, i don't understand why business tends not to understand it. if a nanny our kids and park are cars and cook our food -- i'm not putting everybody in that, but that is how they get past often in this debate. they're good enough for that they're not good enough to be educated or have access to health care. i've never understood how business is schizophrenic about that. on one hand, they benefit from the labor but on the other hand, it seems hypocritical to me. i don't understand why business does not get such a simple equation often times. >> i think business does get it. polled business executives, one of the things they will tell you to this day of how hard it is to find qualified people to work for this company. where we live in los angeles, kids in highof the school system are latinos. 25% of the u.s. population will be latino. surveys aboutof what happens when we fail at that. abouteady talked incarceration, but we also talk about lost wages, lost productivity, a drag on all parts of society. some of the walls that have been passed are fantastic but it's more than that. this is a partnership that goes all throughout our society. in the latino community, we need to emphasize education more than we do it. there are other communities that do that. we need to be more creative and innovative. whether it's a charter school for a different way of learning or using technology better, the same system that educated guess and our parents is not going to get it done in the future. this is a much bigger problem. business understands that, but business also feels stymied bellies are introducing these ideas, we say no because this special interest for this union will like it. an issuehink it resources. >> i'm down to my last few minutes and i want to give everybody a had a. it has to be concise and assisting. the same question for everybody. i'm curious as we sit in this i had soion today, much fun being moderator for a live. growth arend the important to me. in these forums, i'm a student of history and want to roll with take back a few years from now to see what you said to me in 2013, let your greatest hope was and your greatest fear is going toward. we all have hope and am curious what your greatest fear is and your greatest hope is as we move forward into this century. , i'mi get it this way going to get to your syllabus. these are the closing of. >> my greatest hope is i don't even know i can put my finger on the fear. what i expect and i am hopeful this is the way it will be for the latino community is that we're going to show what we saw in the last election is just the tip of the iceberg. my greatest hope is that we are going to find a way to truly engaged by solving immigration and bringing people out of the shadows to own their voices without any fear and to get them into a place where people know what they are talking about and what they know and what they have experienced. i think the filipino experience will increase that significantly. and therms of fear dysfunctional have our political system, we can't even agree on 80% and we don't get solutions. i hope we can outgrow that. i greatest hope is latinos will achieve their rightful place in society and the issues we're talking about become afterthoughts. african community has to have an african-american president, that has been checked off the list and it has become normal that she could have someone that can govern the most powerful country in the world. we are going to get there. i also want to commend you for doing this. it gives me a lot of optimism going forward. latinoreatest hope is politics becomes more and more empowered to fix this country. eraill help engender a new of prosperity and hope for all the population. my greatest fear is it will be no better than the ones that broke the system. greatest fear is the supreme court and others will make a decision that will suppress the latino growth. that includes decisions about the voting rights act and about the arizona voter registration. but we will see more efforts to suppress the vote. my greatest hope is we will overcome that with great struggle. the lessons are reinforced and the only integrated in policymakers thinking and that is about far, good policies for the dead nation that includes a growing latino population and an outgrowth is solving the education gap from prekindergarten to higher education. my greatest -- >> my greatest hope is that america is ready to embrace us and allow us to be fully integrated with them as their brothers and sisters as we so much want them to be. just like my daughter and my wife, everybody who is protected by the laws of this can come out into the light of day. latinos turned -- 500,000 latinos turn 18 every year and over the next 20 years, it will go up to 900,000 a year. millions and millions of young of latinos. are we ready to educate them and prepare them to take the rain? how are we going to acquit them with the knowledge and talent to guide our nation into the next century? greatest short-term fear is that immigration reform doesn't pass and it continues to be a wedge used by both sides pitted against each other for political gain for themselves and it will be very demoralizing for our community and stop the progress on some any other issues like education. is that thisope country becomes one where equality rains and where it questions that are often asked of politicians who are running, where you stand on immigration reform, where you going to do but equal pay for women: read going to get equal education for minorities? my hope is those questions become irrelevant. >> my greatest hope and fear lies in the next generation. that should not be surprising given the fact that i'm a professor. is aredents in my class full of energy and ready to take charge. i tell them that you are going to take charge and the dreamers i have among the group are so incredible. it is there a limbo status that makes them so political, but it spills over. in any case, the students i have, latino, black and white are looking at race very differently. they're growing up in a whole different world. that makes me optimistic. the fear i have is that they are going to forget how they got here and why they got here, the civil rights struggle that brought them to this place. that's my problem and my duty as a historian to make sure they don't forget. >> and your reading list? >> will give you a short one. classic work that came out in the 1940's. one called "north from mexico." these have been reprinted and they are accessible. another book titled "in defense of my people." and it isout in 1940 a collection of affidavits by uniformed latino soldiers in 1942. the affidavit has to do with the fact they cannot go into hotels and so forth and that is an amazing collection of affidavits. >> -- >> you can always read whatever i do. >> that was very nicely done. >> your hopes and your fears? >> my hope is that the climate of fear that has been created in arizona and the repressive legislation has taught america to never do this again. that leads to immigration reform. my greatest fear is it will not happen. -- if audienceou gathered to show your love and appreciation for every member of this panel today, for their brilliance, a courage and conviction and commitment and their character. [applause] i know you can do better than that, chicago. [applause] what a wonderful conversation. let me ask you all to thank c- span for covering this. [applause] for covering this. and i want to thank you for coming out to be a part of this conversation. conversations two that make up latina nation beyond the numbers. theas been my honor to be moderators of -- the moderator of this panel for the first time, but i'm afraid not the last. keep the faith as always. [applause] this was one of two panels. you can watch both panels tomorrow morning at 9:20 eastern on our companion network, c- any time any time at -- on c- at c-span.org next span, former first lady laura bush, followed by a conversation with clarence thomas. and former president bill clinton talks about his life in public service. we will have to events on our companion network, c-span 2, a report on migration and economic competitiveness with the former commerce secretary under george w. bush and the former mexican president. this is hosted by the migration policy and to live at 9:30 eastern. and look at the political situation in egypt, two years after the resignation of hosni mubarak. the discussion on the new generation of egyptian leaders and political structure. that begins at 12:15 eastern. the new charge that the bush presidential library with former first lady laura bush. >> what we really wanted, when we picked our architect, is a modern building that would fit in the collegiate georgian campus of southern methodist university. they have a very strict code. they want their buildings to look georgian. that is how the campus was designed, 100 years ago. one of the great things about having bob stern as the architect is, i knew he could make a forward-looking building. we wanted it to be modern, since george was president during the first decade of the new century, but also traditional, in the sense that it would fit with the georgian campus. that was embraced, with the sides of the building that come forward, the fountain in front. then, you can go straight into the museum at that point, into the big hall, and stand under the tower, the lantern, freedom hall. bob stearns saw that design when he did that, with the lighted tower, as a blend of and a nod to dallas hall, the first building built on the campus. it is a presidential library, but also very welcoming. ande is something stately dignified about it, which i appreciate. >> there are almost two different views, when you enter the front of the museum, and on the side, you see the institute and adjoining park. >> you can look straight to the front windows, in the center courtyard, all the way through the building, into the center courtyard. the center courtyard defines the museum, and the national archives and storage space. it was signed over to the united states government the day before the dedication of the building. the center courtyard remains with the institute. that is where we are now. we are in the building that will belong to the bush foundation, that the bush institute will be run from. we are in the library right now, one of the presidential reception rooms, on the top floor of the institute building. these are rooms we can use to entertain speakers before they speak right below us in the auditorium as part of the institute. the is where we can have egyptian fellows who are here right now in the united states as part of our women's initiative -- we can entertain them here, in future years, when the women's fellowship initiative -- when they are in the united states. oneave two buildings, the that will belong to the united states government as of april 24 -- people may not know it, but the papers and all the artifacts from every one of our presidents belong to the people united states. byy are kept and conserved the national archives. that building will become one of the national archives buildings, staffed by archivists. >> this is a room the public will not visit? >> this is a room that will be used for entertaining. of course, the public will see it, is in the sense that we will have tours. people will be invited, along with programming. >> in terms of putting this together, explain your role. you are a librarian. your dad was a builder. how did that come together? >> i am very interested in architecture. have always been. i grew up with house plants. my dad was a builder in midlands. build houses for all those people who moved out to work in the oil business in the 1950's through 1970's. i also trained and worked as a school librarian, and am aware of the roles archivists play in the preservation of artifacts and papers, and why it is important to preserve that history, to have the papers preserved of all of our presidents. things are pretty finished in the building. most of the furniture has been delivered. the institute staff, the fellows working in the bush institute, are almost into their offices. they have moved everything from the warehouse, where things were stored, in lewisville, texas, to the terrific storage that is part of the library and museum. now, at the end, the museum is being installed. throughy that i walk it, more things are there. more videos are up and running. more of the displays have been installed. that has been thrilling, to be able to see it. we worked month after month and year after year since we started working on this building. we have been working on what the museum would consist of, and what it would look like. lady there a little bit of bird johnson in you, in developing this park? oflady bird johnson is one my favorite first lady's. her, always very proud of the idea of being able to use our native plants, recognizing beauty in our native plants, to use them in the landscape. she was one of the very first conservationists. and i knew her, because she built the lady bird johnson wildflower center while george was governor. we had a luncheon for the center opening. to then george and i went the opening that night. i got to show her the white house one time. she had had a stroke already, but her daughter, linda, brought her to the white house. i got to show her around her old home. we worked with the lady bird johnson wildflower center. our landscape architects are not from texas. they worked with the wildflower center to develop this landscaping, which is native prairie and native wildflowers. we worked with the lady bird johnson wildflower center even to develop the grass we are growing everywhere, which is a mixture of four texas native grasses. it will be a turfgrass. it should stand up to a crowd standing on it. and it needs less irrigation and needs less mowing because it is a mixture of native grasses. so i was highly influenced by the other texas first lady, besides my mother-in-law, barbara bush. that is lady bird johnson. >> very different roles, first lady lady and librarian/designer. what is challenging? >> it is always challenging, i think. there is an emotional challenge to serving the country that is difficult. that is both seeing your husband criticized in a lot of ways, but also just -- i think great first ladies do this. really understanding the pressures that are on the people of the united states. but at the same time, realizing what it privilege it is to have a chance to serve our country like that. and to serve the people of our country in that way. >> let me conclude with a process question. you touched on this already. what has this process been like? what have you learned about you, your husband, putting this together, and how do you make this project live on in perpetuity? >> this has been interesting and fun. i loved every minute of it. great landscape architect. great architect. they are both very established firms, with a lot of people. they are very good at what they do. neither have done a presidential library before, but bob stearns has done other libraries and university buildings. and there was another campus. that was one of the reasons i wanted to pick him. he had done native landscaping on the wellesley campus that i knew about. i had also worked with him on the redesign of pennsylvania avenue after september 11, when we knew pennsylvania avenue was going to stay closed. both of them are funny. they are smart. they are fun to work with. it was intellectually interesting to work with them. also willing to try to figure out and forecast what it is we would want. what did we want for the museum that would be interesting to people, but that would also be -- really be able to transmit what it was like to live in the white house during those first eight years of the new century? and in some way to give people an understanding of the presidency itself, which is what i think presidential libraries should do. what the job of the president is. and the very idea in our country that the president comes from all the people, is chosen from all the people in our country, that we are not a country that had -- even though, in our case, we did have a father and son. i think trying to figure those things out, and make those sort of forecasts, was also an intellectual part of it. beingccessful we are at able to do that, we will see when the library and museum open. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we are here at the very opening of the library. thisst walked through entry hall, the biographical part about george and me. it includes huge, wall-sized photos of our ranch, taken by a very famous texas landscape photographer. then we come up to the campaign, and the recount. even some hanging chads are in their in a jar for people to see. 36 days, obviously, before we knew whether or not george had been elected. finally, we see these videos that show that he won. >> as you look back during that time, was there ever a doubt in your mind that he was going to be elected president? >> at every recount, he won again. each recount in florida, george stayed ahead. but we did not know. we went to our ranch. it was very odd for us. we had been on the road, traveling around the united states for months, campaigning. waited to the ranch and to hear. we got a slow start. we did not have the day's other presidents had to get ready, to think about actually living there and getting your administration set up. >> but the display behind you recounts everything that happened, including that night. take us back to the evening where al gore was about to concede. he did not concede. >> he conceded, and then he called and took it back. we were there with jeb bush, governor of florida. the stations had called the race before the panhandle had voted. florida is in two time zones. i know the stations did not realize, or the networks would not have called the race that early. we were with our whole family. we just went into limbo, i guess, sort of a zen mode, especially when we went back to the ranch and waited for those 36 days before we knew. >> that picture became a theme of the library. >> "a charge to keep" is a hymn sung at the first prayer service. someone called and said, i have a painting, which was a wedding gift, a turner painting, called "a charge to keep." it is a painting of a cowboy, writing very hard. you can tell there are people folllowing behind. governor'st to the office. and we took it to the white house as well. it was in the oval office. now, joey has it again. >> there is a statue of president bush and his father. what was the genesis behind that, and who designed the statue? >> one of our very good friends commissioned it. he wanted a statue of george and his dad, which we really wanted, because his dad is such a huge influence on our life, on the children's lives, but especially ours, because of this bond from being president. the artist is a portrait painter, and he painted the portrait of my mother-in-law, barbara bush, that is in the white house collection. you would see it if you toward the white house and walked by all of the first lady paintings. noas you walk over here, child behind. >> this part of the museum is what we thought we would be working on all eight years we were there. the first big display is on the way to get out of the recession we were in when george was elected. no child left behind was really what george had campaigned on, both when he ran for governor and when he ran for president. that is education reform to make sure that children do not just get shuffled through school, but that they do get a good education, and that we know it, because schools are held accountable, schools, teachers, and administrators, who do what they can to make sure they are using the right strategy and curriculum, to make sure every single child learns. t-ball in the white house started that first summer, 2001. it was the perfect place to talk about that. but also to include the big race ball collection. these are only a few of his baseballs. the national book festival, which i founded, was on september 8, 2001. we have a reading book with all the posters. george established the community and faith-based initiative as soon as he was elected. that is over here in the display. forfirst state dinner was mexico, onset timber 6, 2001. we really thought that we would be spending most of our time with international neighbors with our southern neighbors, mexico, central and south america. that is what we knew best. having been the governor of a state with such a long border with mexico. >> let me ask about the cost of the museum and the endowment you have to give the national archive. >> we raised the money for the museum. we will sign it over to the national government, the national archives and records administration. the people of the united states on the presidential papers and all of the artifacts, including all of the gifts that were given to us by heads of state from other countries. they are seen as gifts to the people of the united states. those are all held here, in a huge warehouse that is below us. of course, there are no windows or any way that light might affect the documents and the archives. the united states government will own this part of our presidential center -- the museum, the library, the warehouse. it will be administered by the national archive. obviously, we raised the money privately to build the building, before we give it to the u.s. government. then, we give a certain percentage of the money raised to the u.s. government as an endowment for this part of the building. thebush institute, which is policy arm of the bush center, where george and i will spend the rest of our lives working on the policies that were most important to us, is separated from this building by a courtyard. the bush foundation owns that building, and will obviously do all of the uptake on that building, for the rest of time. >> was raising the money difficult? >> amazingly, it was not difficult. we ended up raising about $500 million. half of that will be an endowment for the bush foundation, and then to give to the national archives, as part of the endowment. amazingly enough, because the economy was in such bad shape when we moved here, at the end of the administration, we worried about being able to raise the money. but we have many supporters from around the country who were very generous. we had more than 350,000 from every state in the united states, and obviously from other countries as well. george and i are very, very grateful. the building was paid for, and we are proud of that. it is on time, below budget, and paid for. we turned the corner from the issues i talked about, and this is what happened. the things we thought we would be working on the whole time, which we did continue to work on -- this changed everything for us. behind us is the large piece from the world trade center, from the 82nd floor, where the plane hit, at the point of impact. it is here as a sculptural memorial to the people who died on september 11. weir names are in the wall are looking at. i think people will be very, very moved by this, just seeing, in person, what it looks like, what the building -- the of the flight, how horrific it was. the videos around that side our minute by minute, from the first light to shanksville. 11had day by day, september through september 20, when george spoke to the joint session of congress. each of those days. i know, because every time september 11 comes up, friends or acquaintances, or even strangers that i am talking to, one to tell me where they were on september 11, and how they heard about september 11. we have installed a booth where people can type or talk into the microphone to record where they were on september 11, to leave their memories here, so they become part of the broader archive of everything about september 11 that is here at the bush center. >> you were in washington that morning. you greeted the president as he landed on the south lawn. do you remember the conversation? >> i do not remember what we talked about. he came downstairs and spent the day with senator kennedy and senator gregg. i was at the capitol to brief the senate committee on early childhood education. obviously, after a wild, i was taken to a secure location, and then came back to the white house right before he landed. i was down in the bunker with lynn and dick cheney. i remember that we hugged each other. what was there to say, really? we were safe, and our girls were safe. all we could think about were the thousands of americans who could not say the same about their own load once. and about how our lives had changed, and the duty that had fallen on george to lead our country now through the dark shadow that had fallen over it. >> a lot of interest in this exhibit as part of the museum. what do you want people to walk away from? >> i want people to remember it. i want this to be a memorial to the people who died, and after that, the military who served for us, and many who lost their lives. and all the ways the united states came together. i think it is a very important lesson for us to remember. and as we get away from it -- it has been 12 years since september 11. fewer and fewer people will remember. george wrought a group through recently, and the children were not alive on september 11. personalnot have a memory of it, like people our age do. i think it is important for all of us to remember the ways that we can come together, and the reasons we should come together. >> one iconic moment -- the bullhorn from manhattan. >> that is right. a lot of the artifacts are here that came from september 11. a lot of letters george received. the program from the memorial service at the national monument. the national cathedral, rather. the badge that arlene howard gave george, to remember her son. even now, when i see these, and when i see this video -- here is the pentagon in flames in the video. i am reminded again of what it was like. the crushing anxiety that came with it. the fear that many of us had. how vulnerable we felt as americans, really, for the first time. other than pearl harbor, we had an act in our homeland. the unexpectedness of it, and the shock of attacking people who were going about their daily

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