District in the state of utah, approximately 90 public land. I am the legislator in the Grand Staircase monument which encompasses a huge area so i have a pretty good knowledge of this. I one time worked as a Land Management special met specialist with the bureau of Land Management and was working on projects when the Grand Staircase was created. I am very interested in the calls this morning and i hope we can get our point across of why we think downsizing bears heirs and the Grand Staircase is good for the people of utah and us as people,ow who live in the sovereign state of utah, that we can have the money we need to educate our children, take care of our health care system, and provide the income. I have heard a lot of comments this morning about how these lands are free and there is no taxes on them. That is because of the fact that the people in the state of utah get almost no money in terms of tax based on these lands, which has put us in a position, unfortunate position to be one of the lowest public funding of education because 66 of our receive a payment in lieu of taxes as opposed to property taxes that other nonwestern states collect on these public lands. Very important issue for my constituents. 15 years and the state legislature, this has been my passion to keep the public land open, accessible. There was a hunter on earlier. If hunters across the United States do not think the next step in the process of locking up these public lands, creating National Monuments, and more federal control, more locking up of public lands, they are very naive because we have seen it happen all over the western United States and it will continue to happen. There is over 15,000 public that in litigation in utah our county roads maintained by the county, maintained 40, 50, 100 years, slated to be closed down or taken by the government. Within those monuments, those areas will be closed down so bears heirs National Monument proposal by bears ears National Monument proposal by barack obama is not supported by the utah state legislature, not supported by any congressionally elected official, our senators, governor, or two thirds of the utah state legislature. We have lived it, we lived with the Grand Staircase. They take our water rights, close our roads. The type of development that goes on in public lands these days is a very structured development. We go through the National Environmental policy act, the Antiquities Act, threatened and endangered species act, in order to do any kind of development, to create a road, to put in telecommunications, a pipeline, electrical power lines. When you create a National Monument i one man, single designation under the Antiquities Act which was never anticipated to go to this length, you lock up the land and keep the land away from the people it is supposed to be for. Host i want to share with the audience what president obama included with regard to bears ears protection of the bears ears area will improve its cultural, prehistoric, and and maintain its to youric going back earlier point, if the federal government does not own the land, who would and how would that generate revenue for the state of utah . Guest the federal government has control of the public land and that is my point. The reason president obama created this was because there is some kind of a threat to the cultural integrity of these housedto the antiquities on the lands and the scientific structures. That is absolutely false. In 1906, there was no Antiquities Act. The penalty for taking antiquities was 500 and 90 days in jail. That is still under the books on the books. We never prosecute anybody under the antiquities law. The federal policy Management Act and the National Historic preservation act, which creates fines of up to 100,000 for age of a natural archaeological resources and also scientific resources. To say the land is not being protected is absolutely false. It is being protected. It has maintained protection for the 160 years utah has been a state. In the world are creating are we creating monuments like which arestaircase, 800,000 acres . This one is 8. 3 million acres. That is over 5000 square miles of lockup of public land which neither allows any type of development and when i say development i am talking about putting in a cellular site, putting in any type of solar panel, any type of a wind generator. There is nothing that can be done in these areas because of the way the acts are written. They are written by a guy named radical,ilkinson, leftwing professor out of Colorado State university, and it does not allow for any use by the public. We have locked up along with the public lands, the private initiation of those lands. It creates a false protect there is layer after layer of protection on these public lands, including areas of clinical environmental concern, the Antiquities Act, the threatened and endangered species act, clean water act, clean air act. Think to say that things are the same as they were in 1906 is false. Host joining us is mike noel from the state of utah in the house of representatives. The interior secretary expected to recommend shrinking the borders of the bears heirs ument, is what we are bears and monument, is what we are talking about. Calling to protest the way in which you enunciated the topic this morning. You are saying, should federal lands be open to development . A false impression oreither it gets strip mined it gets completely saved for pristinity. This is what the argument has come down to. This is a matter most often of people east of the Mississippi River drying to tell people west of the Mississippi River what to do with the land out there trying to tell people west of the Mississippi River what to do with the land out there. Host representative . Guest i appreciate the comment. It is not either or. The majority of these lands are under blm management. They have organic acts passed by congress, and congress has control of the disposition of public land. They create the laws and policies out there, so the very laws that congress passed, the most recent in 1976 allowed for multiple use and sustained yield. Very little stripmining going on in the state of utah, very small areas. Cleaned completely after the area has been mind, that is all on public property. No mining, there are projects planned in bears ears or the staircase. County, so in kane do not see this monument designation being needed on either one. All i see is access and accessibility for people that want to go and visit these public lands. This year we have got more to raise him in these National Park tourism in these National Parks than ever. We need more access to keep the land open. Input byf the huge radical environmental organizations, it is absolutely despicable. , thed a 71,000 acre fire most expensive fire in history. Reason for that fire goes back to the lack of ability for the Forest Service to log and manage trees. Weaks created a weekend ened forest. The more we try to set regulation on regulation in washington, d. C. And those who on whatoutput input goes on with our land, we cannot even influence our land rights, our water rights. When you burn up the forest, you eliminate our water rights. Areas,ed up grazing homes. We are polluting one of the 10 top trout farms in the United States with all of this waste and debris going into the lake, creating an algae bloom and killing the trout. When we turn the management of our public land over to the radical environmental left, we have turned our heritage over in utah, heritage which has allowed us to bring people in all over this great country and all over the world to see the beauty of this area. We do not want to destroy these lands. We want to maintain them in a proper way like we the last 160 years and use them in the way they should be used, multiple use and sustained yield, which is tourism. We found over 160 movies in kane county. It is called little hollywood. That was shut off with the Grand Staircase monument. Familyot even have a reunion that exceeds 12 people on the ground. I wish people would come and see the problems we are having. It has taken six years to get an upgrade on the power mine but we are building new hotels in the areas that interface the end monument. We need more water and need more power. We go through a process that is extremely expensive to even upgrade and existing powerline. An existing powerline. There is wisdom in the fact that the states should control the majority of the land within their boundaries, and we feel we need more input and out access as it is stated in the inanic act for public lands the Forest Service. Host we have a lot of people who want to talk with you. Our guest is mike noel, utah state representative who represents the area including bears ears. Where does the name come from . Guest that is an ancient area. The area of the monument focused, there is two peaks and if you get back at looks like bears gears. Ears. It is a beautiful area. It is not being destroyed. The native americans in my district, the majority of native americans in my district are represented by a democratic county commissioner. She is 100 against creation of this monument. The majority of the native in thats, utah navajo, area do not want a National Monument. The people that have taken over a small area of the tribal members in that area are supported by radical like thental groups sierra club and others, to create this monument. It is a false premise, native americans that use that land, have gathered wood on it. They also run cattle on that area. They have, and testified in committee in the house so it is a false statement to say this is being protected for the native americans and they will manage that monument. That is absolutely false. There is nothing in the Antiquities Act that allows them to manage that land. We want them to be on that land and maintain it. If bears ears is allowed to be sustained at this size, it will be excluded from that area. This Navajo County commissioner was voted in recently by a majority of the citizens, the native americans on the reservation, and she is totally in opposition to this creation of this monument. Susanville, good morning. Caller we have to protect what we have because if we dont, our posterity will not have anything. Everybody in america, have a good day. Host lets go to bobby in West Virginia. Good morning. Caller i am a coal miner and at one time, we had bar mountain on the historical society. Corporate Coal Companies and there was a lot of private citizens on a portion of the property over there. They give them a tremendous amount of money to buy them out over there to kind of get enough to where theyoned valuehed the historical of the land and everything. And that was one of the mountains, one of the battles that labor had fought in the federal government came in with airplanes and literally bombed the american citizens for their of these corporations and the governor and sheriff of logan county at that time had called the government in here. The government was siding at that time, because of big money and big influences from the state, and the local level here. , just now recently beginning to get their mountain Bear Mountain back on the roster, but it is still a continuous battle and we still know, a ways to go with the appeals process because they have appealed it. We are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard spot. They are there for americans, germans, all nationalities. Host just to be clear, this is in West Virginia . Caller we need the government to protect our land and protect our civil rights and labor rights, and protect our country. This is ridiculous. You are looking at greed in its ugliest manner. The phrase as of now is just promoting hatred and keeping a lot of disruption going on, and people need to ask their selves why is this all going on . Host bobby from West Virginia. Guest utah is a sovereign state and we are recognized as the best balanced state in the nation. We take care of our children, we have good health care. The government closest to the the best government. I have said this several times to people, the state of utah, the government of the state of elected officials and policymakers do not support another layer of bureaucracy where in washington, d. C. And people who do not live in this area, in and make decisions in we have the best deer herds and no kurds in the country. We also have a 19 billion agriculture industry that depends on our ability to use not only our private lands but two thirds of public lands. Maintaining proper control, proper numbers, we think we do a better job here in utah and we want to get away from small, radical environmental organizations that can step in and take control. You talk about the businessmen that stepped in, wealthy businessmen. Those people have been replaced by the greedy Environmental Community supported by the wealthy businessmen. The southern alliance, who are they supported by . A swiss man who funds their organization. , started canyon trust by a multimillionaire. You have got environmental as someonens posing who supports the people and helps the public land, but in reality they are the big corporations and the ones that want to shut it down, and only have these lands available to the elite few. I want them available to you, your children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren. We can do it in perpetuity by keeping access open and having a sustained yield approach to these public lands. Host the western area we are talking about, the western United States in your home state land is 53. 1 of the owned by the government. 63. 1 of your land is owned by the government. Alaska is 61. 3 of the land owned by the federal government. John is joining us from one of vista, california. Vista, california. Caller i do not know where to start. I have heard this congressman radel on. Host i want to make a correction, he is a member of the utah state house. Think the radical right is moving in on some of these issues, and he needs to really get out in the field and see what is going on. He said he is a rancher. Did he grazed his hat on public land question graze his cattle on public land . Public is pushing for more open areas, things of this nature, not protected. I live in western colorado and have my entire life. I have seen these atv individuals, in, in mass clubs, 20, 30 individuals, take over an area. I have seen jeep clubs, in and take over the area. The environmental damage they do is absolutely incredible. Host mike noel, as a rancher, how do you respond . Guest i was born and raised in utah, thirdgeneration, fourth generation with my kids. Kane county is 89 public land where i live. I have a very small percentage of my land that is on an allotment where we have a grazing allotment that goes back over 100 years, prior to even the federal land policy Management Act, prior to the creation of the blm. The majority of cattle in utah graze on public land. We still have public land in these areas and it is a multi use scenario. As far as atv use, i think our atv users and people who come in are responsible. There are clubs, over 200,000 registered atv users. We want to have them stay on existing trails. They are the ones that main Train Maintain trails and pick up garbage. It is all of us together, that impact public land, and we need to do a better job of protecting public land but i do not point my finger at the atv users. They are some of the best people in my community and state, the same with the hunters. They manage the wildlife as we go out. We have to look at the fact that we are a growing population. Utah happens to be the fastestgrowing state in the nation. Lands are critical for people to be able to get out of the city. Areascome people to these but we want people to come out and cant and hike be in camp and hike and be in these areas, not destroy them. That would be crazy. Representative, let me follow up. If the state took over control of these lands, how much would it cost utah . Guest there is a good study from the university of utah, utah state, and weaver university. There were the a net income to the state of utah if we were to give the land in public hands. Sets up ale use act process whereby all the land would be retained in public ownership. , it is a public lands state will remain a public lands state. It is part of our heritage to have these lands open but we could in fact gain income. In kane county, get 7 million for our budget off of 10 of their private land and 1 million of payment in taxes on 90 of the federal land so something needs to change in that formula. We have to continue use as multiple use. When they created the Grand Staircase, they proposed to close down over 1000 miles of public roads that have been in existence, some of them 100 years, most of them at least 40. That does not mean access to public land. That does not help the public at all. We have been fighting those losses for some 20 years and we will win those because it was something given to us under revised statute 2477. My goal and the goal of the policymakers in the state of utah is to keep public land open , hunting and access and hiking. I have five children and 23 grandchildren, all of them love the outdoors. My children are marathon runners, trail runners. It is not to destroy it. It is to get the federal government out of our hair. Enforcement,al law very egregious acts toward our citizens by federal law enforcement. We have an elected county sheriff that can do the job elected by the people in his community. It should not be a ranger from out west telling us how to drive on our roads. Host joining us from oregon, good morning. Caller to get a little history, when the pioneers came give a little history, when the pioneers came through oregon they complained about the smoke. The indians after the huckleberry season would burn off the forest floor and kept it clean. In andber barons come paid very little further for umpage and paid very little for the land. And now our forest floors are so builds up with fuel that when we do have a forest fire, it just wipes out everything, it sterilizes the ground, and they have trouble growing in other forest. I think often when big business mine orto my or log log, they paid very little for what they get in the rape the land. They pay little for what they kind of rate ust the land. I spent my life in the rider, s, im a trail to a group that maintains trails. When they were logging in the kept the roads and trails open, but as soon as they land, rough raping the everybody left and big money left with it and the forest was left alone and the money was gone and there was nothing to take care of our forest land. You. Thank mike noel, your response. Agree, some d things that went on in the forest were improper, but now we a situation where youre rowing 72 million more feed of timber on the north land or 66 dixie,n board feed on the and allowing harvest of omewhere around four or five million acre of feed, that is just not sustainable. Certainly there has to be some harvesting of trees, bidding of the forest healthy and even to have control of burns. And controlled but to not have harvesting, to not have any type of control and not have management and again, m talking about groups that sued to stop harvesting of dead bark beatle trees, people that the shutdown access to the forest, people who dont want to stump. They made statements like, i would rather see the whole see a stump han to there is balance we have to go back to. We have knowledge now to in fact have can better, healthier forest with being able ects and to harvest timber trees, why should we get timber from canada and other countries, where they jobs . Ize and take out in e mills in the area, and arizona, just over the border in 1996, when that Forest Service allowing logging and shut it down because of jobs. Ts, we lost 500 500 jobs in two counties is absolutely huge. What were exporting now, instead of logs, were exporting our children. Were building all these motels, we dont have people, young to cover men, young men and women that could be college come in high school to and do some of the work in there, the seasonal labor. Hey bring in people from the ukraine and other countries for jobs that are out there. There is a balance that we have have in balancing these public lands. Has aw is clear, congress disposition of public land, the way the land should be managed sustained yield, Antiquities Act is 100 years better information on the books now and divert more attention to public lands being with input, great input from local citizens, from eshg officials in utah, that is what the law says, what is on books, we dont need the federal government in here trying to manage lands, they are now by the d environmental radical nvironmental left weve literally caused the destruction of our forests and public lands. A wild horse herd out there, that is 400 over their they are umbers, wiping out game herds, destroying our watersheds, its crazy. Are feeding thousands and thousands of horses 40 million corals putting them in and think we are doing a good job, that is crazy, insanity. Quick question and preef response, patrick from colorado, pat. It brief, caller good morning from the radical environmental left. Mazed by the quality of representatives arguments here, hes extremely well rehearsed knowledgeable about the situation, unfortunately, hes just wrong. Ost 30 seconds, quick question. Aller yes, and the issue is between population and hortterm profit and the posterity of the natural world, cant live lands, we without natural land and we should not abuse it. Grow our population and move into these areas, there avoid that can destruction thats been our history and thats why were acing today the biggest problem, which is climate change. Host patrick, well get a response. Noel, quick comment. Guest it goes back to my caller argument, every from someone from outside of the state of utah. Protect bligation to watershed. We own water rights in state of utah. Care of our take children. We do a great job in utah, we have the best managed state in Fastest Growing state our Business Community is excellent, that is because of how to take now care of our lands because we live here. You try to manage land from your state boundary, it is fine, if people of oregon Something Different with public land and laws, they have, let them do it, people of that, let want to do them do it. We should have the same rights n the state of utah on public lands, we should have greatest extent possible the organic act, bureau of Land Management said they will confer with local olicy makers with politicians, local people to how we manage public land. We can do a better job of it. Hoping secretary zenke, guy, navy guy, great seal, i think he will make a huge decision and the president will make a decision to downsize, it doesnt mean no protection, it means going back allowing the multiple use of public land, which has beautiful areas we have so that you could, the lands have been maintained for years, making National Monuments out of them. That should Say Something about responsible they are, how important the lands, we welcome tourism, we welcome you is a friendly state. We think we do a great job of managing public land, give us opportunity, again, to be involved in this input. Steve, and , washington journal for letting to have n today, great this conversation. Host we appreciate your time. Utah state representative us from salt lake city, also a rancher, appreciate you friday morning. Joining us live on the phone is window ining us from roth in the navaho nation of arizona, thank you for adding voice to this conversation, we appreciate it