Outpouring of fear in todays politics. A march onessing april 2 any tax date march. This is just the commitment we are taking to reengage people are no longer willing to be participants. They want to understand the freedom they have created it should not be about restoration aswhat was, there is political power and that is the focus of our editorial just a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about how we can turn this into as many meetings as possible. To ensure that the movement would not be just exposing but also proposing. We are also seeing this in the electoral that over the last few days there has been the state of legislation that is that going to pass when expanding social security. People like Bernie Sanders and keith ellison. They are trying to expand social security, medicare for all. I think we witnessed at the last march there was a resistance recess. Up to ask showing their congressperson not just about protecting obamacare not just about building on obamacare which i think is a necessity. There is medicare for all, Building Health care in this country as a right but also as a privilege. I do think from resistance to reconstruction that is part of the mantra i wake up with. Did you see any of that with the candidates in a district even though republicans won in the margins . Absolutely. Is a ruby red district, i think the margins show that there is a resilience, momentum and energy. That thetanding is democrats need to take back 24 house seats in 2018, of 23 of those they are districts Hillary Clinton won that are occupied by republicans. There is momentum, there is a reengagement, people are not willing to let others do their best. As we are stepping up have seen. Be it is out of crisis there is a victory. I think there is a new understanding of the power of organizing and we are witnessing a Movement Moment that has been set back but is now looking forward again. Looking atussion progressives and the era of trump. If you would like to comment on this feel free to call. You mentioned in town halls that we have reports with joe wilson of South Carolina many people chanting you lied. The kind of action you are talking about. People showing up is what we should be talking about. There is this first volley. Notink we do better as demonizing trump, showing how these are hurting the vote for him. Was health care what past the Republican Health care bill, and about how they said they were going to destroy and dismantle obamacare. They never had a alternative. Billeight that health care went down was because the Freedom Caucus not saying it was harsh enough. Or what hard enough people. I think that Health Care Bill would have hurt people in west virginia, kentucky, ohio. Supporters of donald trump. I think that we see in this budget of his, the budget is an assortment of numbers, a principal statement of values, again, hurting people who have supported him. How we come together and speak to people and cross boundaries, how we kind of have a set of transpartisan discussions that i believe in, thats another issue. Its a time where i think we need to get beyond you lie and get to a discussion of whats working, how do you build a country with less poverty, with rights for the working classes. White working class, brown working class, it comes to mean the white working class, but it shouldnt. I think it is how you build something that isnt just left right, but his top down, and im reticent about having heroes, but if your viewers dont know reverend barber, he spoke at Riverside Church against the vietnam war, warning the people of to much materialism, too much too much militarism and too much poverty. He leads a movement that is multiracial, that is of justice, of rights. He asks when did Voting Rights become of become a left right issue. When did keeping the water clean, our air clean, we need to think hard about Core Principles and think beyond namecalling and label calling. Host we have calls for you. This is dave, from armstrong creek, wisconsin. You are on with katrina vanden heuvel. Go ahead. Caller i would like to id agree with you about the idea of some sort of singlepayer health care system. With a marketbased system relying on profits as a motive, those costs are always going to go up. I would like to remind people of their that get their Health Insurance through their employer, this is part of your wages. If we had a singlepayer system, we would be paying for it through taxes, but i think this would benefit the employers, also. There is a car manufacturer that move their plant to canada. They figured in 2000 per car in Health Insurance costs. This type of thing guest a good question. Caller would benefit everybody. Host go ahead. Guest youre calling from the good state where the uaw was formed. The major Car Manufacturers were preparing to move towards singlepayer. They were ready to support this. Plants and manufacturers have moved to canada. Think there was lobbying, we have seven lobbyists for the Health Care Industry and every representative in congress. Medicare for all is proving to be more efficient, effective, but the rest of the industrialized world uses. There are different proposals. Senator merkley from washington state, i am sorry from oregon has put out a kind of midlife medicare, where you would include people from 50 to 65 and if you did from below, as the former governor used to talk about for children, you could see it sandwich. If we cant do it through one burst, the history of reforms is one of incrementalism. I do believe that medicare for all, as Bernie Sanders spoke about the campaign trail, it was a very popular issue, has real support in this country. You have a lot of organized money working against you. Host reverend barber was a red a guest on this program. During the campaign, you can see the video if you go to the website. Philip, brooklyn, republican line. Caller yes, good morning to you both. Im a liberal republican. Especially in new york, its a lonely club. Lincoln, teddy roosevelt, ronald reagan, my favorite president s. They were not tea party republicans. Since 2002, however, i have voted a straight democratic ticket. Im not stupid and the republicans really went off on a lurch, further to the right and i have ever imagined. However, i was a Bernie Sanders supporter that voted and supported donald trump. Heres why. All madam secretary had to do for the progressives i called them liberals, still, im 55. All she had to do in this pickry was packed Bernie Sanders as her running mate. Had she done that, she would have gotten my vote and my support and she would be in the white house today. All of those millennials that were shocked and stayed home what have supported her. As far as populism, trump is a populist. The tea Party Interest is suddenly waning. They will be drifting down the river as time goes by. Guest i dont know about what might have happened. The nation endorsed Bernie Sanders in the primaries. Someone who was covered for 30 years as a state rep, a congressman, someone we think his issues are the issues we have championed. Norman thomas, who ran six times for president , the socialist Party President , was asked at the end of his life what he was proudest of. Driving his ideas into the Democratic Party is what he said. Sanders fought hard at the end of the primary not to win, but to get his ideas into the platform, which is not just a piece of paper, its informing our politics. I dont think donald trump look, on the populism question, its a complicated one. There are many strands of populism. We do see rightwing populism ascending around the world for many reasons. A failure to speak to people who are angry who feel that their voices arent heard, who feel left behind in a time of tectonic shifts. But donald trump is quickly being captured by goldman sachs, the bankers, the bombardiers and generals. I think that who he is is still up for grabs. He ran as a populist, but i, if he is not wobbling, he is moving in Different Directions and even rightwing populism would suggest. Host next up, democrats line. Go ahead. Caller how are you doing this morning . Host you are on with our guest. Go ahead. Caller i just want to say to your guest this morning, when she mentioned about people out here organizing, look. The only people out here organizing our people that think like you, uhhh, hate like you, maam. I have been watching you for quite some time. You are someone that would never, ever agree with anything that the president does. Anything. You know . Again, none of us that voted for trump are not out here organizing against this president. People like you who think like you. Ok . Guest let me just say that, as i said, i dont think that it works to demonize president trump. I think it is taking on his policies. I think he ran a campaign that was defined by so hateful ideas. I think he did a service about talking about endless u. S. Intervention, the dangers of the u. S. Policing the world, nationbuilding and regime change as American Foreign policy. People called him i shown a list. Isolationist. I dont call that isolationism. Its a form of realism that understands the limits of american power, the need to work at others, and if we police the world we will never rebuild at home and we do better to rebuild our country to its greatest for film and before we go out looking for enemies. And i think donald trump, again, hes been captured, it seems right now. The syrian strike, which is incoherent in many ways, if not very dangerous, and his escalating of military zones, yemen, somalia, the counterterrorism strikes, the horrors and increasing civilian casualties, the set of generals around them who want iran in the crosshairs, this is not the Foreign Policy of a realist or a restrained president. Or, i suspect, what many supporters saw an president trump. Someone who wasnt going to go out into the world, didnt think america had vital interests everywhere. We have seen it. I read as much as i can. I have seen Breitbart News and other places argue corrupting with fury at the president. In fury at the president. Today, there is a story in the new york times, that there is more famine in the world than at any time since world war ii. More refugees than at any time since world war ii. Military force, military strikes will not was all those crises. It requires deft leadership. Not simply the u. S. , but working with other countries towards political solutions. There is the accursed diplomacy, which gets such a bad name in this country often. President obama and i wasnt a big fan of his foreignpolicy. Im truly an independent in this arena, but he said in an interview that too often in washington the foreignpolicy establishment defines credibility as the willingness to use military force. And he pushed back. In 2013, people are criticizing them for this, but through diplomacy he averted military strikes in syria. You could argue that all the chemical weapons werent found, but that was up to the u. N. In the office of chemical weapons prevention to keep monitoring. But i do think that at the end of the day the political, the diplomatic is going to make this country, our country, the world, more secure. Host lets go next to don in pittsburg, kansas, independent line. Go ahead. Caller its surprising, indicative of the splits we see on the left, that she would see that the uaw was founded in wisconsin. The uaw was obviously founded in michigan, detroit. The great motor capital. Guest i was thinking of kenosha, sorry. Caller i grew up in detroit, so i know. The uaw used to provide books on labor history for all the Public School libraries in the detroit Public Schools. Books i read when i was a kid. Those days are gone. I dont know exactly how we are to proceed. We are in a very dangerous time. The nation has certainly had a long history of trying to stand for the right things. Bernie sanders, who i reluctantly supported, admitted that much of his program was just eisenhower republicanism. I dont know where we go from here. Guest he called himself a democratic socialist but at the end of the day i think Bernie Sanders was an unreconstructed new dealer, with Climate Change and womens rights built in he used to go around talking a lot about denmark. About the wonders of that model. I asked our esteemed historian, who claims he is retiring next week, but he will never retire, to write an open letter to bernie. We love denmark, but enough about denmark, could you retrace our own countrys radical history . We have, the nation was founded by abolitionists. The uaw. The power of labor . The movements we have seen through time . Even the populist farmers alliance, to find that history and revive a younger generation, we have seen ebbs and flows, zigs and zags. Its a great tradition. Thank you for correcting me about the uaw. I was thinking of kenosha, wisconsin, where he did a town halls ago with our former washington editor, chris hayes, now at an msnbc. I do believe that labor is decimated. There needs to be new forms of labor organizing. There are new forms organizing and emerging. I do worry. We got a new Supreme Court justice this past week ran through. You have got some important labor cases coming up. One of them was a bullet avoided, the frederick case, which is going to decimate publicsector unions even more than we have seen. One of the reasons Hillary Clinton lost in wisconsin, she didnt campaign there, which was a mistake, but that scott walker has implemented a Koch Brothers funded plan over these past years to decimate publicsector workers in wisconsin, which is not only about decimating labor as a countervailing force to Corporate Power, the decimating one of the pillars of the democratic already. Party. People who get out and organize and vote say there needs to be new form of labor new forms of labor organizing to deal with these times. Host raymond, from oklahoma, good morning. Caller good morning. Am i saying your name right . Guest yeah. Caller im as liberal as a republican could possibly be. Some of your points are just, they just a make much sense, they dont hold water. When you talk about republicans, i hear this all the time, they are constantly accusing republicans are anybody that is antiabortion is against womens rights. Thats garbage. Women have rights. You cant say that abortion would be would have anything to do with a womans health. Because abortion is bad for a womans health. You talk about guest let me try to reframe that. My thought about abortion is i think its not just its about a womans right to choose, a womans right to control her own body, but it is also about Economic Security. Its about a family. About the ability to make decisions and live in freedom. I think that the abortion issue is tangled and distorted, but my view, and you have your view, is that i think it is fundamentally a freedom issue. A womans freedom to choose. But it does link to Economic Security in this country. I think that there it is an argument without end. That is my view. Im surly not going to resolve that issue this morning. Host can i ask if your concerns over judge gorsuch extend to the possible revisiting of roe v. Wade . Guest of course that is a central concern, but my main concern is that he privileges corporations over people. This frozen trucker decision, your viewers might want to check that out, where this trucker, fearing for his life, was stranded, left the truck and then was fired. Gorsuch sided with the corporation. We already have a 1 court. It is a special thing that happened. To me it is about the Playing Field in this country being already so favoring Corporate Power. Which, by the way, should be a transpartisan issue. Many years ago the nation worked with code pink, trent lott, even the nra to overturn these cross ownership media rules because even the tea party should be for localism. The Big Corporation out there often doesnt have peoples interests at stake. But those alliances have frayed, fallen apart, unfortunately. They need to be rebuilt. There is a long history in this country of under it understanding that unchecked Corporate Power is not in the interest of people. I think that gorsuch is in that tradition. There is a report that i wrote about in the washington post. In the mainstream, out of the mainstream, his record shows that he is 87 more conservative right wing than the federal justices sitting in this country. This is a serious low. Hes very young. That is important. We need to think hard about the court. All this should this talk about judge robert being a referee, balls and strikes, give me a break. There has been a long history of politicizing the court and the right wing, to its credit, has understood the power of reshaping the lower courts. One of the reasons that trump won was that he cut a deal to appointed justice. That he was appointed justice. Host alabama, democratic line. Caller first of all, im a subscriber to your magazine and it is excellent, the best in the country. Guest terrific. Caller im really worried about our country. Eight years ago, plus, i started calling all networks, becoming disturbed at what i saw Mitch Mcconnell and the Republican Party doing. I was raised in the 50s and 60s in the mean, hateful south. I remember it well, im an older person. I wanted tell you right now that we are in serious trouble. The problem with our elections is that they are not free and fair for everybody, thats both sides. Thats democrats and republicans. Then our country is shot. The Republican Party is not the majority. I can tell you from living in alabama, i also own property in mississippi, where i was born. I was raised in mississippi and alabama. Trust me, people, i have experience with this. These men are mean and hateful people. They will stop at nothing. They want to control everyone of us, all of our freedoms and get all of our money and make us like minions while they sit up there with these millions and billions. Who needs this decadent, greedy amount of money . No one. This is the first part that is wrong. Host ok, thank you. Guest what do we do . One of the reasons you still have this was the first election, going back to the court, that was held without the protection of the Voting Rights act passed in 1965. Voting suppression laws in 18 states, i believe, were new on the books in 2016. That played a role. It played a role in suppressing minority voters, younger voters, single women. I think that we need to call out the caller did that think hard about the fight and the Structural Reforms in changes. Sitting here, its not just all branches of government that have been taken by republicans. Under president obama, the states, i believe 33 state have gone republican. Many states are all republican control. That is a project, now, a generational project to begin to talk to people to take back, to speak to the issues that improve peoples conditions, lives. Your caller, you can feel the pain and the anger that she feels. But i think we have got to get beyond the namecalling and moved to the really fighting for changes. Because we are locked in at the moment and it is a dangerous time. Host as we have been talking, sean spicer has been at an event. He has been at an event and was asked about his comments yesterday about the holocaust. I want to play a bit of his statement and get your response. [video clip] i made a mistake. No easy way to say it. Got into a topic i shouldnt have and i screwed up. You know, i hope that people understand that we all make mistakes. I hope i showed that i understand that i did that and that i sought the forgiveness of people for screwing up. You know, and i hope that each person can understand that part of existing is understanding that when you do something wrong, if you own up to it, you do it. You let people know. And i did. For me, i mean, there are two takeaways. One, it is a very holy week for the jewish and christian people and this is not to make a gaffe and a mistake like this is inexcusable and reprehensible. So, of all weeks, this was not this compounds that kind of mistake. Second of all, so first of all, its obviously, its, it really is painful to myself to know that i did Something Like that. Because that obviously was not my intention. To know, when you screw up, that you possibly offended a lot of people, i just, you know, i would ask, obviously, for folks forgiveness to understand. I should not have tried to make a comparison. There is no comparing atrocities. Its a very solemn time for folks in this is part of that. Thats obviously very difficult, personally, to deal with. You know that a lot of people that dont know you wonder why you would do that. Host what do you think about the response of the situation, extending from yesterday . Guest well, its rare to hear much apology out of a Trump White House. I do think that what spicer said was reprehensible and in a larger way it showed that not only was he on the wrong side of history, but he didnt know history. I think thats a hallmark of this administration. On the wrong side of history, doesnt know their history. But there are many other terrible things that spicer has gone out there to be mendacious about. Ugly policies that he has supported, that this administration has supported. He apologized and i think we need to look at the larger picture. This is in the context of i think, a terrible mistake, the syrian airstrikes, which by the way is one of the most irresponsible acts of this chaotic presidency yet. Im saddened to see so many liberal media pundits and liberal form foreignpolicy establishment mavens rushing to applause. You can see the big problems, in addition to spicers pretty horrendous, reprehensible comments the other day, which, is rare, as i said, for a Trump White House to backtrack. We have come a long way from Kellyanne Conway hunkering down for 25 minute interviews. Host our guest is the editor of the nation. Katrina vanden heuvel, joining us for this discussion. And thank you for your time. Guest thank you. We are life now inside George Washington university, we hear from the former pakistani president who is talking about isis and u. S. Foreign policy. Ive coverage here on cspan. [applause] good evening and welcome to the National Library center. I am the director of the