Trumps approached afghanistan compared to the Prior Administration . Guest President Trump was talking about leaving afghani stan throughout his candidacy. President trump announced pretty much an openended engagement that would be conditionsbased rather than timelinebased. The other major difference was the singling out of pakistan. We will no longer be an even broker between pakistan and india. The last issue is nationbuilding, which President Trump came out strongly against. Host some criticism of his approach seems to be people think it is like tweeking at the margin. Is a big enough shift in strategy to bring about a different approach . Guest i think its a very good start. The problem i have with the Trump Administration is that the single speech does not cut it. The issue is whether there can be sustained attention to the problem in an administration that seems to go from topic to topic to topic with little focus. The other concern is regarded troop numbers. You have two bit options. One is to get rid of it. The other is to leave it alone. You dont want to just compromise down the middle. Or the pentagon is talking about an additional 4000 more troops. The question is, will not be enough to change the conditions on the ground . Every military expert i have talked to says no. Host why have they not made those numbers public yet . Guest President Trump was very coy during his speech with regard to those numbers. It is hard to future deployment secret. The numbers coming out of the pentagon suggest a few thousand more involved in training and so forth. But i think trump is trying to have it both ways because threats campaign he said we will bring the troops home, focus on american infrastructure. We have already spent tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in afghanistan. Even be trying to do the right thing for National Security while on the other hand playing politics. Host with his victory look like in afghanistan . Guest each administration has physically defined victory the same way, which is the ability of the Afghan Government tt to monopolize use of force in his territory so dont worry about other terrorist groups taking roots. People who have been advocates of withdrawal have said al qaeda is already on the run, the problem is outside it seems to be resurgent and Islamic State is starting to set down roots. The question people have is if this is open and a generational conflict, can be for that . Can we afford that . Host do you see an and to the war in afghanistan or we will be there the way we are still in south korea . Guest the problem is the vacuum. We dont want to create a vacuum. When you create a vacuum is not usually the forces that fill it. With regardresting to President Trumps speech is talking about a Greater Partnership with india. What i have not heard from new delhi is if india is ready to play ball with that, whether india wants to fill the vacuum. One of the other problems we have filling the vacuum, especially for calling out pakistan for what to beat a various activities is that afghanistan is landlocked. I did not hear any clarity on the logistical problems to come not wanting to work with pakistan for supplying any forces we, india or other parties have in afghanistan. Host were talking with michael rubin. Clear taking your calls. The line from republicans is 202 7488001. Democrats, call 202 7488000. Independents call 202 7488002. We have carlos from miami beach, florida for the democrats. Good morning, carlos. Are you there . Caller yet, im here. Afghanistan, first of all this started with the Bush Administration. Find weaponsg to of war and all that stuff. I understand that. Only left but when we left we left their economy all messed up and we just took off. We have to help people out. Guest if i can extrapolate from some of his comments, one of the issues perhaps we could address of the nationbuilding. The reason why this is so controversial when it comes afghanistan is that when you flood a country with money, sometimes the corruption that results from that can be more corrosive than if you dont flood the country with money. There is a lot of interesting Lessons Learned from the nationbuilding experience in afghanistan. When there have been two villages, one of which had a well and one didnt, we decided we wanted to build a well in the other village. That sparked greater insurgency because it disrupted traditional power relationships. There was another village where women were having to walk over an hour in order to get water. We figured we would make it easier them. The well was poisoned. It was done by the women. By walking that our, that was there social time for the could be away from the men. Sometimes we go into the guise of nationbuilding, but we dont understand local cultures and the power relationships and it can make things work. Host what is your assessment of the diplomatic efforts underway under Rex Tillerson . Guest it is not clear what sort of diplomatic efforts. Are underway to state department is still woefully understaffed. It is not clear whether that hes to be a priority. One of the issues they did come out of the speech which will fall on Rex Tillersons plate with the idea of negotiating with the taliban and down the road. Can they be part of any peaceful solution. This is something that has a history. In washington aging history is anything more than 10 years ago. Albert einstein famously quipped that insanity is doing the same action repeatedly but expecting different results each time. We have negotiated with the telegram before. During the bill Clinton Administration we negotiated the taliban on more than 30 different occasions. The records are in the George Washington university National Security archive. The taliban promised to quarantine Osama Bin Laden and close training camps. That did not work. Under president obama we tried again. The taliban opened a Diplomatic Office in qatar. That was more about money laundering. It is not clear the idea of talk is going to be what some people imagine it to be. Host some people say there are no good options in afghanistan. Guest but it is afghanistan, north korea, iraq, theres always a question about a magic formula. If there was a magic formula, we wouldve discovered it already. Nor do world events necessarily conform to the American Election calendar. Host we have james from marion, indiana. Independent. Good morning. Caller i want to thank you for cspan. It is a wonderful program. About afghanistan, i am 82 years old. We are still supposedly over their training the afghan army. After 18 years. We sentorld war ii american boys overseas to fight days. And tojo with 90 they call the 90 day wonders. We trained these kids in 90 days to go fight a far more formidable foe than what we are finding afghanistan. They will never be trained. Se people excuse me those people have been a russians, thehe graveyard of the british, of alexander the great. We will never win in afghanistan. They fight like the italian army fought during world war ii. They hold the rifles of over the top of the trench so they dont show their heads. They are really chickens. They dont want to fight. We will never win in afghanistan. Guest james raises a good point about training. I think this is one issue where we could have some introspective in washington. It is not just afghanistan. Than 25we spent more billion training the Iraqi Security forces. We have tried hundreds of millions of dollars in Training Programs for syrians rebels. It has not worked. Why is it our Training Programs are so ineffective . If the answer is the culture of those were trying to train, as ises implies, the issue is the natural state of the military in those regions Something Different and should we be training towards a differentend . Where i would disagree is when it comes a fighting the taliban and. Taliban. Many Afghan Security forces are topnotch and really put their lives in the line. One of the problems weve had is there are certain capacities the afghans dont have. For example, getting to where the fight is. If we are no longer willing to user helicopters, can they get them there on their own. Aref we withdraw medevac, they willing to fight if they know if there would did they will not have a chance of survival. That is one of the issues we need to talk about only come up with these calculations about how many more need to remain in afghanistan. It is not just troop numbers, which is often bantered about in congress, but the capabilities of troo those troop numbers rep. Host on monday, President Trump talked about the military effort in afghanistan. [video] President Trump america will work with the Afghan Government as long as we see determination in progress. However our commitment is not unlimited and our support is not a blank check. Afghanistannt of must carry their share of the military, political, and economic burden. The American People expect to see real reforms, real progress, and real results. Our patience is not unlimited. We will keep our eyes wide open in abiding by the osi took on january 20, i will remain steadfast in protecting american lives and american interests. In this effort we will make common cause with any nation that chooses to stand and fight alongside us against this global threat. Terrorists take heed. America will never let up until you are dealt a lasting defeat. Host lets go back to the phones for we have joe from silver spring, maryland, a democrat. Caller how are you doing this morning . I have two quick questions. One is i was looking at the television and i saw were there deposits mineral rich that the afghanis all of a sudden discovered. They are trying to my nose mine those. They are not as adept as the United States of the in mining those materials, lithium for batteries and so one. How does that play a role in our buildup in afghanistan . Second, with the russians have want to help the afghanis to push back against us so they could then lay some kind of plane to those Mineral Resources . Have a nice day. Guest those are two excellent questions. When it comes to the minerals, is hit the headlines about tenures ago when after all the blood and treasure the americans had expended, the chinese came in and paid a bribe to a minister and got a huge copper mine. 10 years on they have not been a look to exploit it because of the logistical problems in afghanistan. They are too great to overcome. All the talk joe was referring to about the rare earth metals that are present in afghanistan, that has not come to fruition. That seems to be a bubble of optimism which did not bear fruit in reality. When it comes to the russians, they are playing a double game. But when dont they . They dont want to see a complete american defeat. The worry about if taliban or outside of take therol, they worry about Central Asian republic which used to be part of the soviet. Nion such as uzbekistan you about the russians concerned about that. We have also relied on the russians before as part of the Great Northern distribution route, which was the alternative pakistan for logistics. We would take it all away to the baltic states. Estonia, lithuania, latvia. On the other hand russia has not made things easy for us. In effect they want to continue to bleed the taliban and the taliban to bleed us what they dont want either of us to win. Host they also say pakistan is playing a double game. Guest this is what many people said, democrats and republicans. When it comes to afghanistan this has become a bipartisan problem rather than a National Security political football. What many people say is on one hand we are giving billions of dollars of aid to pakistan in order to basically combat extremism, combat pakistans phone taliban problem and keep pakistan on the right side of the conflict. Pakistan does not want to defeat these terrorists because if they defeat the terrorists, the billions of dollars in aid disappears. Also during the end of the Bush Administration there was a bipartisan effort, when senator kerry was still chairman of the Senate ForeignRelations Committee said, why is it we are spending all this money incentivizing pakistans military . What is the face of american diplomacy in pakistan is the pentagon and the cia rather than the state department . Billionided to give 7 to the civilians in pakistan to try to change that. The result was far greater in pakistannism because the military started not wanting to lose their share of the money and basically said this money is an insult of pakistani sovereignty because all the auditing that is required, for it to secret plan to christianize pakistan. Host we have shelley from louisiana. A republican. Caller good morning. He madeave to say reference to it. It is likely are trying to buy friends. As long as we keep giving and giving to countries, they are going to be smart enough to determine how they keep adding to their funds and getting money from america. We are in such a financial aisis that it could become point in time that we cannot actually defend our own country because of the lack of funds. Until congress decides they will anddults and Work Together put these party issues aside, we are never going to receive a result that is favorable to our country. Thank you very much. Guest i largely agree with shelley. She said it much more clearly than i was saying initially. Foreign aid should never be in entitlement. It always the conditions based. One of the broader problems with foreign aid across the globe is whether or not it is in pursuit of a single unifying strategy, for we are just suspending dispensing money. That is something for the state department and congress to decide. Will we have enough money to supply our country . If we want the afghan focus . It has become a lot cheaper just to leave much of the equipment behind rather than to pay the billions of dollars to bring it home. When we got involved in afghanistan and ramp up in afghanistan Many National guard units went and took their equipment with them. They love that equipment behind. Some of it was worn down or damaged. The worry for the future is to have the money to replace that equipment in the hands of the National Guard . We looked at was going on in texas. The National Guard is a lot of things at home, not just a broad. The issue is are they going to be fully equipped to do this in the future . Guest daisy is, from washington, d. C. Free democrats. Caller good morning. You know what . The government is all messed up. They need to clean this up and stop blaming all these people. They need to either go to jail, get trump out. They need to go do something. They are the ones who messed up. Host with good as steve coming from chatsworth, illinois on the line for independents. All, when we went there with charlie wilson. And supply the telegram. And supply the taliban. Heroine to fester. At another of its basically but in our country, h, is a wasted war, wasted money, wasted human life. That we went 17 years in there. Guest i want to draw out one point and correct one point. When we are talking about Charlie Wilsons war, back during the days of the reagan administration, we never really supplied the taliban. The taliban emerged in 1994. If you look at the timeline, they were three or four years old at the time of the soviet invasion. Say what you will about the Central Intelligence agency, but they are not in the habit training kindergartners. The point is when we went in and we can supporting them, talk about backlash and the bad people with whom we work who now defined as a terrorist. But we were working with those who became the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance are those who are no controlling the Afghan Government. Not everyone who rallies around the islamic cause is the same. There is a difference between the taliban and the Northern Alliance and so forth. Wastedeve talks about, lives and so forth, this is the basic issue. The basic issue is will the United States be safe if afghanistan falls to the taliban . Or will he go back to a pre9 11 day . This is the issue which donald trump and before him barack obama wrestled with. Him before that george bush and before that george bush wrestled with. Will it be more expensive down the line to pick up the pieces if there is a terrorist safe haven . When osama binve laden declared war on the United States and we laughed it off, he meant what he said. When the Islamic State said they want to see the black flag of the Islamic State flying over the white house, they may mean it. One of the other issues we can look at in the broad understanding of terrorism is whether the motivation for terrorism is a grievance or ideology. The university of chicago political scientist in a famous article said it is all about grievance, all about occupation. If we remove ourselves from the region, terrorism will go away. I believe ideology plays a much greater part. If we remove ourselves in the region, we may be getting a safe haven from which they will strike us. Jim from new jersey, a republican. Caller good morning. Just a correction. I am now an independent. I was a republican but i moved away from them. Im an independent. An issue i want to bring up with mr. Rubin is rules of engagement. The president mentioned it. They could turn the whole thing around over there. Those people right now with these rules of engagement, we cant fight. They have to let us fight. You have to let our guys fight. That is what we want to do. That will show the enemy that we are going to stay there and fight to win. If you dont change guest i largely agree with you on the rules of engagement. What we dont want to do is try from the Afghanistan White House which is what we have been doing much too long. There is also a role for congress when it comes to a broader authorization of the military force. Constitutionally we need to do that and do that well in any conflict we are involved in. What i would argue is we should define the victory is, what the generals decide that they need to achieve that victory, and give the generals the tools do that rather than ratchet up from some 30yearold in the National Security council every few days. The other issue besides rules of engagement, which is somewhat related, to the issue of national caveats. We want to work in a lateral setting. We want to work with partners, but every partner, including the u. S. Goes in with certain things they absolutely will not do. The germans will not ferry anyone who is not german on the charac on their helicopters. There are other countries that will not fight. If they are fired upon, they run. We will not use tear gas for example. There are all sorts of national caveats. Itess there is coordination, creates a huge degree of confusion inside headquarters. Host Vice President mike pence writes, President Trump determined conditions not arbitrary timetables will guide our strategy. The previous administrative alerted our enemy ahead of time, something President Trump has wisely refused to do. Do you think that will make a difference as we move forward . Guest it is important. That question is whether it will be sustained. If we go back to the surge in iraq, when george bush gave the speech that announced the surge in iraq, he talked about a conditions based approach but he didnt mention the timeline. When president obama spoke about his afghan at afghan strategy, he did the opposite. He did not mention victory in the speech, but he talked about the timeline. What you are getting at is that when it comes to the military strategy, there is the psychological aspect of it. Some people will argue this gives an incentive for the afghans, by giving a timeline, to give them an incentive to put their house in order. The taliban can lay low figuring they can outlast us. Host beretta from cleveland, ohio, democrat. Caller good morning. Good morning, america. Lines this is a big mistake. And some of our troops are on to their fifth and sixth deployment, if this is wet is being talked about, need a draft. Wars areoking like the for the industrial military complex. They are the only ones winning out of this. Destroyedur ships within the past six months. Have any billions of dollars is that . How did that happen within a matter of four months . And you look at the military budget. , triple down on the military budget. There is no middle class. The old middle class has become the new poor and the old for her become the new indigent. Soup. t eat i am tired of my tax dollars going to war. Guest she brings up a very good point with regard to the whole basically the endless wars, that the issue of the division in American Society between those in the military and those not. She raises the question about the draft. Frankly this is an issue i hear coming in a conversation much more broadly, not just because of afghanistan and iraq, because of the divisions in our society. I went with fairly elite university. Most people i knew never served in the military. I have never served in the military. I have worked a lot with the military. I learned on the job at various u. S. Army bases, but it was a world of wonder i was not exposed to. The question is if its right people in the future should be menetached when american and women of all races and faiths are putting your lives in the line. I think this is why there is much more bipartisan support, if not for a draft but some notion of national service. , his book is rubin called dancing with the devil the perils of engaging wrote regimes. Thank you for your time. Coming up next, a conversation , themark bray about Antifa Movement he wrote a book about released this week. Antifa the antifascist handbook. We have a spotlight on magazine segment. We will talk about how San Francisco is taking it unique approach to affordable housing. Stay with us. About a onethink day festival, the National Book festival, and you have over 100 authors, from childrens authors, illustrators, graphic novelists, all these different authors there all day. Over 100,000 people come in and celebrate books and reading. You can have a better time, i think. Im a little prejudiced because of a library, but any reader or anyone that wants to get inspired, the book festival is the perfect place. Book tvs live coverage begins saturday, september 2 at 10 00 a. M. Eastern with featured authors including pulitzer prizewinning authors David Mccullough and thomas friedman, former secretary of state condoleezza rice, and best selling authors Michael Lewis and jade events. The National Book festival, with saturday, september 2 on cspan2s book tv. Monday night on the communicators what is the framework on how we look at Cyber Security . I think congress with bipartisan support on that, the Trump Administration is looking to focus on that as well. We will participate as well. We visit the microsoft tech fair in washington, d c to learn about tech issues facing congress. Fred humphries, Vice President of Government Affairs at microsoft, and a microsoft researcher share their thoughts. With this, it is a complete system able to adjust data from sensors, drones and cameras and provide useful services. What services we provide is up to the farmer. Somebody once these position maps. Watch the communicators, monday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan two. Continues. On journal host welcome back. We will speak now with mark bray about the Antifa Movement. He joins us from Dartmouth College even he wrote a book called antifa the antifascist handbook. Thank you for being with us this morning. Guest a pleasure. Host what is your relationship to the movement . Guest sure, im a longtime activist and historian. I was involved in occupy wall street in new york city back in 2011