Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20161128

Continues to be one of his top priorities. We want to know what that term drain the swamp. Means to you. How do you define it . What do you think is the best way to go about draining it . Phone lines are open this morning for you to call in on the washington journal. Democrats, 2027488000 is your number. Republicans, 2027488001 is your number. Independents can call in at 2027488002. You can also catch up with us social media, on twitter, cspanwj. On facebook, facebook. Com cspan. Were asking about this term drain the swamp, want to hear your thoughts on what it means to you. For more on what the Trump Administration has been doing to try to drain the swamp, lets bring in a lobbying reporter with the Washington Post, joins us now by phone. Katherine, good morning to you. Guest good morning. Host a recent headline from the Washington Post, dromp is showing how tough it is to drain the swamp. He knows that this is open to interpretation of what that term means. Lets start there. How does donald trump defining the swamp . Guest he defines it actually pretty broadly. Weve seen him speak out against lobbyists. I think one of the ways that he sees draining the swamp can be done is by removing lobbyists influence from his transition and from his administration. Host so lets talk about some of the specific bans hes proposed. He laid some of these out in his contract with the American Voter before the election. But what does he move what is he moving forward with since the election . Guest hes put forth a threepart plan to kind of rid his administration both on the incoming side and outgoing side from lobbyists. It focuses more on folks who have who, you know, down the line, will who may want to lobby afterwards. So he makes it much harder for them to lobby as theyre leaving the executive branch. One of the rules would say you have to wait five years before you can become a lobbyist, a registered lobbyist, and the other one, which is actually more stringent and permanent, would say that if you work in the administration and you want to become a lobbyist for foreign government, so this is what a lot of people call foreign agents. And it just means that you work in washington on behalf of foreign countries. You actually cannot do that for the rest of your life. Its a lifetime ban. And on the incoming side of the revolving door, trump has said he wont allow any lobbyists to work in his administration. That rule is seen as flimsy by experts because all you really have to do is file paperwork to say youre no longer a lobbyist and then you can come in. Host in terms of the lobbying ban, is that sort of thing enforceable . Are there certain bans on lobbying right now that this sort of builds on . Host yeah, so as far as the five yoor ban, right now there are ethics rules about a oneyear ban and a twoyear ban in place. This applies to former members of congress, if youre a member of the house, you join a lobby firm. You have to wait one year before you lobby your former colleagues. For the senate, its two years. And either one or twoyear ban applies to Senior Administration officials in the Obama Administration. So there are rules in place already. What donald trump does is he extends that time period that you have to wait before you can lobby. And as far as the lobbying ban on people coming into the administration, its a little more vague than what obama put in place with his executive border. Obama said if youve been a lobbyist in the past two years and. To come into government, you cant work specifically on an issue that you lobbied on in the past two years. So it was a bit more tailored on what issues you actually lobbied on. Whereas trumps ban is kind of across the board. Host donald trump also focusing on sort of shrinking the size and the reach of the federal government. Can you talk a little bit about his efforts and his proposals there . And yeah, hes Congressional Republicans have talked a bit about reducing some of the benefits and work security for federal workers. So, you know, were not really sure yet how those are going to be implemented exactly and what the details are. But there is some sense that, like you said on the campaign trail, he sees the federal bureaucracy as bloated, and hes looking for ways to streamline it a bit. Host catherine ho covering all these issues. Appreciate your time this morning on the washington journal. Guest thank you. Host were asking our viewers to call in this morning. What is draining the swamp mean to you . You just heard about some of the proposals that donald trump is moving ahead with. Well talk about how theyre being received throughout our first 45 minutes, but want to hear from enthuse morning. David is up first, oxon hill, maryland, independent. David, good morning. Caller hey, good morning. Thanks for cspan. Can you hear me . Host yes, sir. What does draining the swamp mean to you . Caller well, what president elect trump said is hes going to get rid of corruption and things like hat. What it means is republicans are the swamp, and what weve done with this past he selection increased the swamp. Thats my opinion. Because theyre the ones that have stalled the economy. Theyre the ones that have made , if that the president anything was good, if it was good for the American People, that to me is a swamp that needs to get rid of, but apparently weve increased the swamp. Host a lot of the focus has been on the influence of lobbyists. Do you think lobbyists are part of the problem, and do you think its just republicans that are influenced by lobbyists or both sides are . Caller to be fair, i think theres a lot of corruption and quid pro quo on both sides, democrats and republican. And i think thats part of the reasons why you had a lot of people voting for bernie, a lot of people voting for trump, because people are upset, and hopefully he can get rid of corruption and change the way things have done. Because the way things are done ow, its like kind of living in a bubble. People are out in the country. Its like they dont even they know what the problems are , but they dont listen to the people. Look at 90 of the people wanted expanded background checks, even republicans, even gun owners. So how can 90 of the population, 60 republicans, and everybody wanted a change, but the change doesnt happen. Host david in oxon hill, maryland. Were talking about draining the swamp, your thoughts on what that term means, how president elect donald trump should go about doing it. Mike is on our line for republicans. Mike, go ahead. Youre up next. Caller yes, thank you for taking my call. Basically, of course, i think most people, everyone can agree that we need to get rid of waste, corruption, fraud, and abuse, and sweep the lobbyists out of d. C. But there are conservatives, and then there are conservatives. Im somewhere to the right of attilla the hun. The agenda is bloshing the federal reserve. Just let me give you a few examples, some examples of what i mean by shrinking the government in washington, d. C. , that we not only dont need an income tax, but we need to allow the states to take over the functions that the federal government has, or eliminate it. We need to blosh the c. I. A. , abolish the f. B. I. , abolish the e. P. A. , abolish the department of education, you know, basically make government so small that you can drown it in a bathtub. Host are you confident that donald trump will do that . Caller well, you know, hes i hope so. Hes never been quite as vociferous as i. Just want to make government really small to where we are taxed, washington, the federal reserve, and abolishing virtually all of our agencies hat we have that are unnecessary, and it gets in the way of growth and expanding the economy and get rid of the bureau of land management, things like that. Unnecessary, and host here in washington, d. C. Phone numbers again, democrats, 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Ndependents, 2027488002. Fayetteville, North Carolina, on the line, donna, your thoughts on draining the swamp. What does it mean . Caller it means hes going to get rid of all the benefits that Social Security people live on, the poor people live on, were not going to get our healthcare, our raises, nothing. I think they need to get rid of the Electoral College and let the people speak. They need to get rid of all the lobbyists and let the congress and senate do their job without tacking on all this extra crap on there. Host why get rid of all the lobbyists . Caller because, they need to speak their mind, but not necessarily tack it on to another bill. Let Congress Deal with the issues of the country. Host when you talk to some lobbyists, they say that theyre right their right to be a lobbyist, their job, is enslibed in the constitution, the First Amendment, when it said Congress Shall make no law among other things restricting the right of people to petition the government for redress of grievances. Caller and i understand that. But what theyre doing is theyre making it so that we cant pass the laws that have to be. Because they tack it on to the end of a good law. So they cant pass anything. And thats why it takes years to get something passed through congress and the senate. Theyre just cluttering it. If they want to have lobbyists, then have it on a special bill and not tacked on to other things. Host all right. Donna in North Carolina a. Lot of people like donna feeling that lobbyists have too much influence in washington. A recent Gallup Survey looked into this, and heres the numbers on it. The question was asked by gallup, how much influence do you think each of the following has on members of congress on how they vote in their legislation . Major donors were seen as having 64 of respondents said major donors have a lot of influence, followed by lobbyists, 55 of respondents to that Gallup Survey said lobbyists had a lot of now how members of Congress Vote on legislation. Party leaders coming in third there, 45 saying they had a lot of influence. People in the district they represent, only 14 of respondents said that people in the district, that members of congress represent have influence, a lot of influence on how members of Congress Vote on their legislation. An interesting gallup poll from this summer that you can check out on their website. Want to hear from you, though, on this term draining the swamp. How should donald trump go about doing it . Jasper is in washington, an independent. Jasper, good morning. Caller hows it going, sir . I believe that draining the swamp means the Less Government the better. I believe the states should be able to run it themselves. Any federal mandate basically should be released. Agree with 100 trumps stance on that. Definitely, as you can see, like you said, its hard to drain the swamp when its full everywhere. I believe our government is ran by separate interests, and thats where i stand. Host what would you consider success for donald trump . How much does he need to drain the swamp . What does he need to do . Caller i believe partisan, at least 0 , private, friday back privately. Hillarys idea of bringing it to 15 an hour, thats asinine. Thats just going to seek out the private investors. Theyre not going to be able to afford to pay that, but slowly, incrementally do that, well be able to do that. And the lobbyist is a huge, huge part of that. Host it means getting rid of the pay to play inept government that squanders our money. We want to hear from your ewers, you can tweet at, cspanwj. Or call 2027488000 for democrats, 2027488001 is the number for republicans, 2027488002 is the number for independents to call in in this first 45 minutes. We talked about Donald Trumps efforts to for term limits on members of congress. A sfrore the Washington Post on that. They note that of all the promises made on the campaign trail, Donald Trumps vow to pass a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress Might be the most daunting. Senate Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell dismissed the idea out of hand the day after trumps stunning victory. A few days later, House Speaker paul ryan gave the proposal a helped endorsement as he indicated it would be up to a House Committee to consider Donald Trumps proposal. The story noting what remains to be seen is before donald trump uses the president ial bully pulpit to Lobby Congress to adopt the idea along with other ideas he unveiled in a Campaign Speech in colorado. That was his contract with the American Voter that we talked about. To give you a sense of how long members of congress have been in washington, d. C. , for that term limits issue, if you think members of congress have been around too long, heres some of the numbers from that Washington Post story. Of the 100 senators, 64 have served in their seats less than 10 years. The story noting that a deck ad ago, 17 senators had served more than 25 years in the senate. Today, 9 have served at least a quarter century. And on the house side, there have been a bit of turnover in recent years, at least more so than has been in recent decades. More than 240 of the 435 current members of congress have served since january 2009, when president obama first took the oath of office. Term limits one of the key issues donald trump is proposing, along with lobbyist bans of both incoming and lobbying bans for those who leave a Trump Administration. Is that enough to drain the swamp in washington . Clarence is up, republican, go ahead. Caller thank you for cspan. I appreciate it. Draining the swamp to me means looking at these different departments within this monstrous government and changing out not just the secretaries of those temperatures, but going much doper in changing out many of that have leftists gotten implanted, and that includes the director, assistant directors, and many hers that actually run these inefficient departments and spend their time, the secretaries, that is, out making speeches and so forth. And really not getting anything done. The bushed administration did fairly easy with that, and i hope theyll have administers that will make many, many changes budgetwise and personnelwise. Host theres a headline from the column in market watch recently saying that to drain the swamp of corruption, Congress Must require donald trump to divest his business, saying congress should build a big beautiful wall between the white house and the trump organization, that that would be part of this effort to drain the swamp. Do you think thats important for donald trump not to be seen as being entangled by his business interests and president of the United States . Caller well, his businesses are much different than many others such as someone who owns a lot of stock and can put that to rest. But with real estate, i dont think he should be expected to divest himself at bargain prices of so much properties. I think there needs to be some walls put up. But if its left up to the democrats, they would rather leave him broke serving, so there is problems, but those can be worked out. Thank you very much. Host all right, lets hear from mary, a democrat in new york. Mary, good morning. Caller actually, im an independent. Host ok. Caller ill tell you why i called. Everybody says george 43, george bush, that he spent a lot of time. You know what he did . The soldiers and the people that fought the war, the Second World War, and even after they were soldiers and in the service fighting for this country, wherever they got them a il he gave decent wage, all of them, like my husband was in the service, and my mother had to help the rt us, and george gave Service People a decent, you know, at least a reasonable pay to live off of. I get so tired of everybody banging on george w. Bush, george 43, george bush 43. He was a good man. Host mary, when you talk about trying to give people a decent wage to live off of caller do you know what they paid the soldiers in the Second World War . 21 a month. Did you know that . Host i did not, mary. But if you could bring it forward caller well, i do, because my brother was in the Second World War. Ive been following politics since i was 10 years old. And the soldiers were just true americans and were fighting for this country. Host thank you for the call from new york. A lot of other viewers want to demall and talk about this idea of draining the swamp. Warren, ohio, an independent. Good morning. Caller yes, it sounds like you got a lot of elderly people who call in to this on cspan. Im in my late 40s. And i just dont understand the way any of them think. When i hear drain the swamp, it means get rid of all corruption. It means get rid of any kind of ties between the government and business and giving business, welfare, like donald trump has been getting his entire life. Id like for everybody to wanted that he is a welfare queen. The true definition of a welfare queen. He gets more help from the government than any of us could ever get from the government. What i think needs to happen is we need a generation of people to go away and let the younger people get some education, and please, cspan, please start to educate people who call in. They dont know what theyre talking about, and i know youre in washington, you live in the swamp. You know whats going on. And half of these people, they dont know that a democrat is a republican, and a republican is a democrat. Thats what the problem is. Theyre one in the same. We have one party, and that one party is the Corporate Party that is running this country into the ground. Host it sounds like you want all members of congress to go away and a new generation of members of congress, people who havent been here in washington, d. C. , is that what youre looking for . Caller yes, yes, i would like to see some professors, id like to see some actual doctors, id like to see somebody else other than lawyers and Business People who actually know how to use who would know how to govern right and make sure that the people got what they needed. This country is just ridiculous right now. Everybody is either really, really stupid or they really, really know too much, and they dont know how to deal with the people who are really, really stupid. Come on. Host if that happens, if all the members of congress get turned over, if theres a new generation of members of congress with this kind of experience, theres some concern that it might give lobbyists even more power, this from a recent l. A. Times article that whenever there are term limits, lobbyists have even more influence because theyre the only ones around who have any real experience, moving bills through the legislature, that this is a vacuum that they fill and have more influence under. Is that a concern . Caller i understand that, and that is true. We have let the lobbyist run the country. Thats our fault. Thats our fault as a nation for letting pure capitalism ruin our country. We need to hey, we can make a movement to pass laws to make sure that lobbyists have no way of especially ones that are corporate lobbyists. There should be restraints on them. Its one thing if youre a Community Activist or youre somebody whos trying to help a certain people who have cancer or Something Like that. But come on. Were talking about we have lobbyists who are lobbying for Drug Companies to make sure people are paying 700, 800 for an epi pen. Thats where were at right now in this country. I keep hearing people who are in their 70s and 80s, talking about world war ii and how much somebody was getting paid in world war ii. Host all right. Weve got your point. Linda in connecticut, a democrat. Good morning. Caller fist of all, to me, drain the swamp means absolutely nothing. Its a marketing phrase that people use however they choose. You wandered on to the subject of term limits. My answer to that is, kind of similar to the caller before me, but i happen to have an excellent congress person. Why should i fire my good employee because your district keeps rehiring someone you consider a fool . As vizz at every caller is this morning, we should look at congress individually. Lobbying within itself, well, a good congressional rep will lobby for their people regardless. And if you really want to get rid of lobbyists and money, then you have to have publicly funded elections, which is a whole other show for cspan. I gave you lots to think about, and have a great day. Host appreciate the call. Bobby is in maryland, go ahead. Caller yes, good morning. Absolutely the lobbyists do run our government. I can tell you that. I spent almost 50 years working in d. C. I worked for lots of agencies, and in congress, bills are passed and determined by what the lobbyists and they determine what bills are passed, because they have the money. They pay for these campaigns. Not sure about term limits. I do think after 30 years people should not be running for congress again. They have become so corrupted. The thing with Hillary Clinton, thats called drain the swamp. She should have been prosecuted. Millions of Government Employees know that what they did are felonies. Each email can be a felony. Destroying Government Property is a felony. And this is part of that draining the swamp. Lets put our education back with the state. Put it back in the states. The lady who talked about elderly, for goodness sakes, lady, get a life. And let me remind the democrats. Did you know you founded the k. K. K. And jim crow . Do your history. Start teaching kids history again, and no, i dont want all the kids to take over the congress. I want some of the members that have been there for a lot of years, stay there, go educate yourself, learn your history, and then understand that this recount thing, thats part of draining the swamp. George soros seems to be running our country almost. He funded obama. He funded hillary. We need to fix that. Thats whats called draining the swamp. Host we talked about the recount effort yesterday extensively on the wall street journal about Hillary Clintons campaign decision to participate in this recount effort that was initiated by the green party candidate, jill stein. The headline from todays usa today, donald trump blasting Hillary Clinton over that recount bid. You can see the headline there. In addition to criticizing Hillary Rodham clinton, donald trump with a series of tweets yesterday afternoon that has drawn a lot of attention. It started with this tweet, in addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, he wrote yesterday on his twitter page, i won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. Donald trump went on to send out a few more tweets in a series yesterday saying it would have been much easier for me to win the socalled popular vote than Electoral College n. That, i would only demain three or four states instead of the 15 states that i visited. I would have won even more ease and i will convincingly, but smaller states are forgotten. He end that had three hours later, that series of tweets, saying there are serious voter fraud in virginia, new hampshire, and california, so why isnt the media reporting on this . Serious bias, big problem. Those tweets get ago loft attention from those who studied voter fraud and this issue throde a frontpage story, the lead story in todays new york times, trump promotes a baseless claim on illegal vote, the headline there, no proof of the millions of illegal voters that he talked about. President donald trump saying on sunday that he had fallen short in the popular vote in the general election only because millions of people voted illegally with leveling a baseless claim in part of his daylong twitter post, voting, voicing his ang per the recount. The story notes claims of widespread voter fraud have been advanced for years by republicans, though virtually no evidence of such improprieties have been discovered, especially on the scale of the millions that donald trump talked about. Democratic members of Congress Quick to tweet out their responses dwrode that claim by donald trump. Among them was from california, one place where donald trump said there was this massive voter fraud. Adam saying president elect trumps claim he would have won the popular vote is as baseless as it is demeaning. Then theres congressman ruben gallego, a democrat from the state of arizona. He said speaker ryan has no problem with trumps conspiracies if you help him privatize medicare and retweeting that donald trump claim about the millions of voters. One more tweet yesterday fray democratic member of congress, from missouri, he tweeted out a story about trumps baseless assertions of vote fractured. He said mr. President elect, dont start with a big lie. Some of the reaction yesterday in response to Donald Trumps tweets. You saw those members of congress and their responses. Members of congress in both chambers return this week for legislative work in the lameduck session. For more we turn to niels lesniewski. Washington journal viewers know him well, a senate stat writer at roll call. Lets start on the senate side, the business of the week. Whats expected ahead of some of those major deadlines that were going to be looking at here in the lame duck session . Guest well, good morning. The senate is starting the week fairly slowly. Theyre going to have no votes today. Theyll be in and viewers will see some speeches on the floor starting later this afternoon. But theres no voters today. They are going to tomorrow turn to and probably easily pass a bill that would require a new study on how to better get Specialty Healthcare Services to rural areas. If the bill has been sitting around since earlier this year, april, i believe, so that should get through pretty quickly. Lets just kind of what we sometimes call a bid check vote, just to make sure that everybody is still around before their lunch meetings omorrow. The Bigger Picture of the week is this Mental Health legislation and medical Research Legislation that we think they got a deal on ctually on black friday. Host explain that bill a little bit more. Depoip so this is what they have been calling the 21st century cures act. Its a big package of medical research projects. Among them, just to give one example, this is the authorization for the socalled cancer moon shot, the program from joe biden ever since the passing of his son, beau, the former delaware attorney general. So that sort of big push for Research Also including some more funding to fight the opioid epidemic. That is supposedly in that bill, as is a package of Mental Health bills that have been pushed on the senate side. By among others, chris murphy of connecticut and bill cassidy of louisiana, all of those things have been packaged together. Theyre supposed to be votes in the house this week. Question havent heard a whole lot from democrats about whether they are at the end of the day on board despite some concerns about how to pay for certain things. But so far, theres been no reason to suspect that it wont at least pass the house. But whether or not it could face a filibuster is a question were going to be looking for in the next couple of days. Scommoip waiting in the wings is this december 9 budget deadline. Is there anything happening this week to move toward an agreement for that before that deadline hits . Guest well, theres going to be work behind the scenes. The folks at the appropriations can he in the house and senate have to work through with the decision that has been made by leadership to go with a shortterm continuation resolution probably until the end of march in 2017, so that president elect trump and the Republican Congress can take care of the spending and the way they would like to next year. Theres still a number of what they call anomalies that need to be worked out. These are things where just continuing funding at sort of a flat level from the Previous Fiscal Year just wont work for one reason or another, where they have to make some adjustments. And theres also some concern about what to do about an emergency supplemental funding request for the situation in the middle east thats been been requested by the Obama Administration to help deal other tling isis and urgent concerns, so that also ould get packaged in, but that would also change the prospects of the package from just the flatline funding. Host lets talk about the elections. A lot of attention will be on that. Nancy pelosi trying to keep her job as head of house democrats. Take us through the time line of that vote and what the latest is on any sort of vote counting thats happening behind the scenes. Guest theyre voting early this week in the house, democrats are, on leadership elections, and what we have colleague , my actually interviewed congressman tim ryan of ohio, the challenger to current minority leader pelosi. He also did the rounds of the nday talk shows, and he is dismissive of the idea that pelosi has 2 3 of the talk us that shes been claiming to have. He says that his vote count doesnt match that. He also told my colleague in a story thats on roll call. Com that, in fact, he would only be a oneterm minority leader. So if they dont win back the house. So if 2018 rolls around, hes saying that he would bid adieu if they arent able to put him in position to become the speaker come 2019. So theres a lot of frustration thats being sensed among various factions and parts of the House Democratic caucus, but theres no necessarily indication yet that pelosi is , but to or could lose certainly theres a possibility that more votes would be cast for ryan and we have to use everyones first names, because were not talking about paul ryan. But there might be more votes cast for him than there have been for some pelosi challengers in the past. Host well look for your reporting at rollcall. Com. Thank you so much for your time. Guest thank you. Host back to your comments and calls about this question of what it means to drain the swamp. That donald trump slogan hes trying to put in place in the early case of his Transition Team, rules regarding lobbying efforts for term limits on members of congress. Want to hear kwlure thoughts of what draining the swamp means to you. Heres a few comments from twitter. Draining the swamp is an excuse to put your cronies in position of great, undeserved power, five billionaires on trump cabinets. Rick says its a catch phrase, nothing more. Not even trump knows what it means t. Sounds good to people and is different to each individual. One says trump promised to drain the swamp, but instead will fill the swamp those serving his business interests. You cant shut down k street. The First Amendment guarantees the petition of the government, pointing back to the First Amendment in the u. S. Constitution that we talked about earlier on the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. That petition, that amendment that lobbyists point to when it comes to their reason and their ability to do their job. Getting your comments on your calls. Ben is in nebraska, republican. Ben, good morning. Caller good morning. I hope you dont cut me off. Websters said, the dictionary, said that swamp, the third meaning means stun. So that means render unconscious. In nebraska, i definitely dont want to accepted him back to nebraska. They got one county, the county attorney threatened six people with the death penalty. Now that county is stuck for 30 years he nd was in the congress, and he voted against Social Security, every time, and when he retired, he got full salary, 100 , and people are unconscious if they keep voting in these obstructionists. Why in the world dont we get that Supreme Court filled this week by the constitution says . And i hope i dont think ill call in anymore, because it costs so damn much and you cut too many people off, and i hope im not cut off yet. Thank you. Host well, before you go, when you talk about obstructionists, what are you concerned that theyre obstructing, what would you like see more of from your federal government . Caller well, i dont want to see any more obstruction. Obama, ever time he tries to pass something decent, like fixing the bridge like my friend up in minnesota, were crossing that bridge, by about 10 minutes earlier, he might have been dead now. We got to fix these damn things that need fixed and stop these obstructionists. People are so stupid, knuckle heads. They vote the wrong people in whenever they go to the polls. I voted the other day, and they got two spots, you know, if youre for something or against something, but if you leave that blank, if people arent watching them when they count the votes, they could put a black market. If you dont vote for one of them, it would take me 10 minutes to fill out all them things when i only wanted to vote for trump and a few people. We got to change this country. Host an independent from virginia. Caller yes, hi, good morning. Hank you for cspan. Caller i believe nothing is going to happen. Drain the swamp was a campaign slogan, and i think both candidates are part of the swamp. So nothing is going to happen in the end. Host what would you like see happen . What would be one way that president elect trump could drain this swamp, as you see t . Caller frankly, hes part of it. If youre part of it, how are you going to drain it . Secondly, i think theres so much corruption. I remember seeing a study a few years back where they said most of the congressmen, when they showed their income, i guess assets before they went to congress and then after, a few years later, you know, they were millionaires. I think corruption is so vast, you know, our society now, specially in the government, that i i dont have any hopes that anybody can really eliminate or really put a stop to it or slow it down. I mean, these are Just Campaign promises just to excite people and win their votes. But they probably will do a few things here and there just so we can say they made changes down the road. Host all right. Our last caller in this segment of the washington journal, up next on todays program, well get an update on the fight against isis in iraq with Lieutenant General Stephen Townsend. Hell be joining us live from baghdad. And later on, an expert on president ial transition, max stier, president and c. E. O. Of the partnership for Public Service, will be here to talk about Donald Trumps transition with inauguration now just nine weeks away. Well be right back. Sunday on book tvs indepth, were hosting a discussion on the december 1941 attack on pearl harbor on the eve of the 75th anniversary. On the program, the author of doubt towne to pearl harbor the 12 days to the attack. The author of japan 1941 countdown to infamy. And its followed by an interview with a pearl harbor survivor and cowriter of all the gallant men. Were taking your phone calls, tweets, and email questions live from noon to 3 00 p. M. Eastern. Go to booktv. Org for the complete weekend schedule. Were students to participate in this years student cam video documentary competition by telling us what is the most urgent issue for our next president , donald trump, and the Incoming Congress to address in 2017 . Our competition is open to all middle school and High School Students grades 6 through 12. Students can work alone or in a group up to three to produce a five to sevenminute documentary on the issues selected. A grand prize of 5,000 will go to the student or team with the best overall entry. 100,000 in cash prizes lab warded and shared between 150 students and 53 teachers. This years deadline is january 20, en august ration day. For more information about the competition go, to our website, studentcam. Org. Washington journal continues. Host joining us now from baghdad, iraq, is Lieutenant General stephen down send, commander general of the combined joint task force, taking on isis in iraq and syria. Before we get to the latest on the fight in mosul, first explain who makes up that combined joint task force and how many u. S. Service members are part of that mission over there right now. Sure so. My name is general steve. I command the u. S. Armys 18th air force in fort bragg, North Carolina. Here in iraq, i command a joint Task Force Operation inherent resolve. This coalition is made up of over 60 nations that participate in various levels. There are about 19 or 20 troop contributing nations that country in the ground, at sea here, that are facing off against isil. All told, the u. S. Troops on the ground, or here in the joint task force, are over 8,000 and between iraq and syria and the surrounding region, and troops number another 3,000, almost 4,000. Host appreciate you working on this with this bit of delay that we have as we do this interview. But take you throughout, what are the main ways that u. S. Service members are participating in this fight . How how close are they to the front lines, especially in this fight that we see so much in the news, this fight to etake mosul . Guest sure. We enable our partners here, the iraqi and syrian partners, with equipment to help them be successful, with training, usually more advanced type training. They do the basic kind of training on their own. Then we also assist them with advisors who accompany to headquarters and commanders on operations. Then we provide them enabling capabilities. Some examples of that would be intelligence, surveillance reconnaissance, asset, Close Air Support, artillery, things like that. Host it gets tougher to use those things so. At this point, can you talk about how that effort is going in mosul, and what the main u. S. Role is specifically there in the battle for that city. Guest sure. The question is about mosul. I think the Iraqi Security forces operation in mosul is going pretty well. If you think about where this army was 18 months ago, two years ago, it was a defeated my, barricading the gates of baghdad to keep isil out. In the last two years, they have recovered their footing, retrained their army, thrown isil back, liberated about half of the isilcontrolled territory in iraq, and they have now attacked to liberate mosul, the largest city held by isil in iraq or anywhere. Nd that city is 300 or 400 kilometers from the capital here. Pretty remarkable turnaround. Our Coalition Forces are up there doing some of the tasks that i described. Most of the training and equipping has already gone on, and now were down to advising and enabling capabilities and troops are up in and around months well their iraqi counterpart. In the skies overhead, providing intelligence and Close Air Support and on the ground. Some distance away, providing artillery fires, and closer to mosul with iraqi headquarters and commanders making the ecision. Host special line for iraq veterans if up to the call in and talk to general Stephen Townsend, commanding general of Operation Inherent resolve. That phone number for iraq veterans, 2027488003. Otherwise, phone lines as usual, democrats, 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. And as viewers are calling in, general, want to talk to you about our allies in this fight, the ones who are in the front lines who are going into this city of mosul. We hear mixed reviews at times about the reliability of some of those allies. Who are the best who are our best assets over there . Whos proving to be the best at taking this fight to isis in the city of mosul . Guest well, the Iraqi Security forces are a Broad Spectrum of type of forces and capability. So first u the iraqi army so first you have the iraqi army. There are more than nine brigades involved in the mosul operation right now. And theyre in various states of training and readiness, as you might imagine in any army. The units are in various states of training and readiness. Some of the best are up there round mosul now. There are iraqi police, sort of a combat capable police force. Again, theyre up there now and probably parts of them are better than some army units, better than parts of the federal police. There are iraqi local police, think of them more like Police Forces in the United States, mostly law and order, but theyre being pressed to do some combat type because of the situation. Theyre not really trained and equipped for that as much. There are tribal forces, think of neighborhoods securing their own village, sfrorse the neighborhoods, securing their own village. There are militia forces that have responded to calls to defend iraq, and they have a wide range of capabilities, and probably the best Overall Force is the Iraqi Counterterrorism service. Until recently, they were part of the armed forces. Theyre now a separate force just recently. But theyve had a training relationship with u. S. Special operations forces, even since 2011 during the time period between 11 and 14, and so theyre probably the most capable of all the forces. But all these forces are engaged in mosul and taking the fight to the enemy there, isil. Scommoip as the fight happens, we have heard reports upwards of a million civilians still in mosul. Whats being done what are you trying to do to work with our allies there to reduce civilian casualties, Collateral Damage in the city and to the nnocent people that are there . Guest well, the greatest level of concern for the iraqi people coming from the Iraqi Security forces. They certainly dont want to inflict unnecessary casualties on their own people, and damage to their own infrastructure. Second behind the government would be the coalition. Were here at the invitation of the government of iraq, so we dont want to inflict unnecessary Collateral Damage or civilian casualties. Were probably running, and youve heard this before, i think were running the most precise campaign in the history of warfare here. We go to extraordinary lengths to try to avoid a civilian casualties. And when we think that we will, when we hear that we may have inflicted cants through our own media or watch dog groups that are out there, we investigate each and every one of those reports to determine if its credibility or not credibility. And if credible, we investigate to see how we inflict the Collateral Damage and how we can avoid it in the future. So theres a lot of concern at all levels here for civilian casualties. We work really hard to avoid those. Host general Stephen Townsend is our guest. Phone lines are open for viewers to ask their questions. Special line for iraq veterans, 2027488003. Otherwise, democrats, 2027488001. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. Were going to start with kendrick in lancaster, south carolina, an independent, and kendrick, bare with us. With a little bit of a delay as we talk to the general live from baghdad. Go ahead with your question. Caller yes. Can you hear me . Host go ahead, yeah. Caller thes definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. I heard this before. We train the soldiers. Weve been in iraq over 10 years. Were going to train them. And when they come to the fight, they throw down their weapons in iran. Weve been there losing, losing ives, causing lives. Will they fight the battle for them . They fight their own battle. We been training and assisting iraqis for over 10 years, and aint nothing changed. They still got well, they got elite fighters. What i see tv, being there pushing them, they will never fight. Host got your question. General townsend on the end game and the concerns about doing the same thing over and ver again in iraq. Guest yeah, thanks there. Ive heard that definition as well. I would suggest were not doing the same thing over and over again. To your point weve again in iraq for more than 10 years, we were there in 2003 to 2011, and then we left. We left because the government of iraq didnt desire us to be here anymore. They invited us back in 2011. So theres the fist thing that were doing differently than last time. Were here at the invitation of the government of iraq. Ill tell you the other big difference. You say that if we werent here pushing, they would be fighting. Thats not the case at all. I was here during the iraq, the previous iraq war. And in those days, we led the ight, and we brought the Iraqi Armed Forces along with us on operation. Thats not the case here at all. Were not leading the fight. In fact, there arent Coalition Soldiers at the front leading the way, engaging the enemy directly. Whos doing that . The Iraqi Security forces, the Counter Terrorism service, the iraqi army, iraqi police are the ones leading the way, doing the fight, taking the fight to the enemy. Our forces are behind them, given their commanders advice and giving some help with enabling capabilities. But the iraqis have their own artillery. They have their own air force. Theyre using it. Were just helping them. They have their own intelligence capabilities. Were just helping that effort. So its a completely different situation today than it was from Operation Iraqi freedom, which i participated in. Host that line for iraq war veterans, joe joins us from sun city center, florida. Joe, good morning. Youre on with the general. Guest hey, general, i was in fallujah caller hey, general, i was in fallujah. Lets see. We took five cities. And george h. Didnt go any further. He didnt want to destabilize the area. So the iraq people awarded russians with the oil drilling rights, which was kind of cruel, you know, 5,000 people, thats roughly 40,000ingly ons of blood, you know . And then w. Bush went in and destabilized everything, and, you know, all the doo doo hit the fan. You know, after i got out of the service, i got a job on the base as a civil serve ant, and used to work for the admiral, admirals row. And one confided in me. He said the president and appoints his generals and admirals. Response. Ke a host what is the question, joe . Caller um. Is it true or false that we turned over the drilling rights to russia . And is it true that the president dismisses all of this generals . Host we will turn it over to general townsend. Guest ok. Thanks, joe, for that interesting question. I am not sure what it has to do with the operation. Thank you for your service. You called in on the veterans line. Thanks to you on your service to our nation. I am not sure about the drilling rights. I dont think the russians have exclusive use to drilling right here. Iraq does the drilling does the drilling of oil here and sells it on international market. That is how that works. It is not true that each theident fires all of generals and admirals and rehires his own generals and admirals. That is not how it works. Generals and admirals sustained a roles. We all serve at the pleasure of the commanderinchief. Theory, the commanderinchief could fire admirals and generals, but typically, they do not. If you look at history, and who onen positions from administration to the next, you will see a line of continuity that serves our nation well. Thanks for the question, joe. Host general, a question about the strategy right now. Is wherefocus on mosul we are seen a lot back here at home. Can you talk about what is happening in syria and what the re. Is doing the and what happens after mosul falls . Guest sure. Sell, also known isil is a threat to the entire world. If you look at recent events in europe and United States, you will know that. Some examples are belgium, france, florida, and new york, texas, etc. It is very important that the whole World Coalition bear down on this problem. Why are we so focused on iraq and syria . Isil and its franchises are a worldwide phenomenon, but the core of eiffel but the core of isil and socalled caliphate is right here in iraq and syria. This is where it started. And this is where the leader, baghdad he, claimed the original isil the original caliphate. That is why mosul is very important in defeating isil and mosul. Also, you mentioned what are we doing in syria . We are engaged in our partners there. When we are going to do is go down there and take raqqa and liberate raqqa take it back from isil. What this will do is come i think, do a lot to discredit,estroy the narrative of isil which is their mythology has depended a lot on having this physical, qualify state. When they lose their capital in iraq, they lose their overall capital in syria. It goes to discredit their narrative as a terrorist organization. This, what happens after mosul . I dont think i sold i dont think isil postal purses here. Our partners in in iraq and syria will have to keep working to reduce the threat. What we are ultimately working towards is reducing the threat building of the local Security Forces to a level where they can handle in the persistent threat that remains on their own without a lot of help from the coalition. Host just one followup, you talk about that after we kicked them out of raqqa, we will give raqqa acted their rightful owners. How do you figure out who those rightful owners are in syria that there arer several different rebel groups against the Syrian Government . Ok. T so, first of all, we are not charged with helping to solve the civil war. The civil war that is ongoing in syria is certainly complicated for us, but our mission is to syria and inn Northern Syria. Had to be figure out with a rifle owners are . We ask them, we ask the locals. , and a lot ofrt time and energy goes into recruiting folks from the local areas. For example, our local Partner Force will go to Great Lengths to recruit folks from the raqqa area to make sure that that forces representative of the local citizenry, and looks like them and is from them. Will askk them we them to govern themselves and secure themselves. The liberation force, which could come all over syria, will move on, but the force left behind will be folks from raqqa. There are of that, other towns and cities in Northern Syria turned back over to local people to govern and secure. Host back to the phones. Barnett is waiting in marshall, North Carolina. The line for democrats. Marshall, good morning. Caller good morning. I have one question for the general. Would you go please tell me he tell me would how many people are left over from blackwater . Guest thanks, barnett. We dont really have any mercenaries over here. Mercenaries, in my mind, are paid to fight. Come nonmilitary contractors, nonmilitary personnel picked a fight. What we have are contractors performing security duties many of them for the United States or for other countries. They do things like guard the eyepiece guard vips. They do functions like that to free up a reduce the need for military forces to do that. We also have contractors over here to cook our food and service to us. And they perform a wide range of tasks so we can reduce our uniform footprint here. No mercenaries, but plenty of contractors, some of whom are performing security duties over here. York,kathleen is in new republican. Go ahead, kathleen. Commentfirst, i have a that i believe are National Guard should be here protecting our nation, not over in the middle east. Secondly, i really feel that if the people over there in iraq particularly, are handling their and well, and we just then we just dont belong there. Let them handle their own problems. Thank you. Host general townsend . Guest ok. Well, made a comment, she made a comment, she didnt really answer a question. You didnt really ask a question. She made a comment about the role of the National Guard. I dont disagree with her. The National Guard actually does help secure our own country, america, and the states. They help secure our nation there. They are also a part of our armed forces and a part of the normal rotation of the u. S. Armed forces overseas, so National Guard units get mobilized. That is why they exist, not only to protect america at home, but go do, as part of the regular forces, Security Operations and military operations overseas. We have a number of National Guard soldiers today that have immobilized and our own federal duty performing just like the rest of the armed forces. I am very proud to serve alongside them and have them in our formation. Are done here, they will go back home and resume their duties defending america at home. Well, i dont member what her second question was exactly. I got it. She was mentioning that she thought that the local folks could handle their own defense, and they should. And the reason we came here, for a long time, we watched iraq struggle with the threat that is isl. With the threat that is isil. Just a threat to iraq, it is a threat to america, and that is why we are here. Host lets go to martin in new jersey. Andare on the general towns you are on with general townsend. Caller and the fight against s, [inaudible] they gave a positive response reduction ing the in going afterge isis. Martin, we are losing you a little bit. We will try to get that line a little bit better. Lets go to anthony, a democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning. Cspan, and general, thank you for your service to america. , when theiriraq civil war but is any type of political solution . I will take your response off air. Happy thanksgiving, sir. Host general, go ahead. Thanks, anthony, and happy thanksgiving to you. If there political solution on the horizon . Thing we have to do and our mission here, the military mission is to defeat isil. Tom not here necessarily facilitate a broader, political solution and iraq. Solution in iraq. For a lasting effect, there has to be political reconciliation in iraq. There are a lot of competing interests here, political interests, ethnic interests, religious interests that is the environment we live here in in iraq. As i watch it, i am hopeful that there is a broader political solution that will bring greater stability to in iraq. That itd probably argue was the lack of that kind of political solution you are talking about that caused the rise of isis after al qaeda and in 2011. Defeated isil rose in its place. What you are alluding to was lack of a political position here. It is very important and we have achieved some sort of political solution in iraq as well where all of the people in iraq have to look at their government and make sure that it is representative of their interests. Think that is i a requirement to guarantee another threat does not rise in the place of i sold after they are defeated in the place of isil after they are defeated. Host can you give us an idea of what thanksgiving was like for the troops in iraq . Guest sure. I got to see thanksgiving on all ends of the spectrum. We traveled out into the field, very close to mosul, and revisited u. S. Troops on the battlefield the day before thanksgiving. And revisited some of our special operations folks nearby, and some troops from the airborne division. In there out there field, but they were getting a full, thanksgiving meal. Our military, regardless of where we are in the world, out, pull out all the stops, to deliver a thanksgiving meal to our soldiers. They may be sitting in the dirt on a side of the mountain, but we will bring them a hot with all of meal the sides. Ton i was able to come back the larger bases and see thanksgiving with all of the trimmings in the chow hall and everything you would expect of a thanksgiving meal back home. We try to reduce our activities on thanksgiving where we can, and that the soldiers enjoy a little time off, maybe watch a little bit of football on the armed forces network. Engagede are soldiers in a war here, and combat operations, so not everybody got a day off. Certainly the soldiers in the field did not, and even those back at the headquarters had to take turns pulling duty, while others watched the football game. Tim is on thegan, line with the general. Caller thank you, general. How was Technology Working over there . Is it more covert . Thank you for your service. Tim. good call, in general, go ahead. Guest thanks, tim. Thinktechnology, i dont anyone uses Drone Technology than the United States. We use them all the time. We are constantly watching the enemy with them. It is the first time in the history of our arms armed forces that we face an enemy threat. An enemy is deploying drone threat. Some of them are offtheshelf drones you could buy at the mall and they are deploying these things against us and are using them to control and direct fire and have use them even to attack our positions by dropping smaller explosive devices and they have landed a trojan horse your Coalition Forces and enticed iraqi forces to go pick it up and bring it into their position to examine it when it exploded. This is a significant threat to us now. We are building a lot of capabilities to protect our soldiers. Host 10 minutes left with general townsend. North carolina, will is waiting on the line for republicans. Go ahead. Caller my question is a question on technology. With our heirs appear youre ready and air power isis remain on the battlefield . Haveo why dont we 10,000 drones in the sky watching every move every second . Superiorityme are and suffering technologically it seems to me that our superiority would keep them from coming out of their hole. Can you answer that for me, please . Uest sure, will thanks. No army in the history of warfare has been able to be everywhere all the time. Superiority and technology, wherever we are, we can dominate. And we can have insights. We cannot be everywhere all the time. Here are not 10,000 drones and even 10,000 drones could not watch iraqi aroundtheclock can watch iraq around the clock. It is hard to see through bad weather. We had seen the enemy use creative techniques to include sending oil wells on fire to create giant clouds of black smoke and environmental disasters in an attempt to thwart an attempt to our eyes in the skies. We cannot see through buildings. Have freedomosul of movement. They dig tunnels and moves through subterranean passages under cities and moves from building to building through walls. It is very difficult for us to is doing inl cities. In open does it, it is easier, but still challenging with our modern technology to see through visitation through vegetation. If they stay undercover, whether that be an oil cloud or dense visitation or dense vegetation, it is hard to see. Host back to the line for iraq war veterans. Jim is in new york, an independent. Go ahead. Caller thank you. General. Ike to ask the i have not heard anything mentioned at all about the kurds and their role in the battle of mosul. I just wanted to ask the general if you could comment on that . Host we will let him expand on that. Go ahead, general. Guest ok. Question. Your is aurdish peshmerga semicalmness region in Northern Iraq where the ethnic kurds are ire majority, and the Security Forces are referred to as peshmerga. They have done a remarkable job defending iraq against mosul. To isil. Territory they eventually stiffened their defense along with the iraqis and coalition help. They were able to stop isil. Since then, they had been fairly constant in reversing isils gains and requiring lost territory, and helped the iraqis helped territory, and were instrumental at the operation of mosul. To attack. The iraqis the kurds protected the iraqi so they could prepare for the attack unmolested by the enemy. The kurds advanced their line and a major offensive operation that pushed forward between six and 10 kilometers towards mosul, and they stopped and allow the iraqi army to pass through, and since then, they have continued to clear isil out of those rear areas that may have been bypassed, and protected the iraqi armys lines of communications and reinforcements, their casualties evacuated. Care tovided casualty support the iraqi army. The kurdish government and the Kurdish Peshmerga has helped the iraqi forces a lot. Host does a few minutes left. Just a few minutes left. Caller the caller before, that was my question with the technology. Now thattaking they have dug into the cities, how hard is it to identify the fighters once you get in . I know there are a lot of innocent people killed. Fully, but as they flee, how can you identify them . That is my question, you know. Take any, when to delay there are so many casualties. Host general, go ahead. Guest ok. Thank you for your question there. Right, it is very difficult to identify the enemy. I wish that we still saw hundreds of parades of isil fighters with their trucks. They do not do that anymore. The last time they tried that, they tried to break out of fallugia summer early last summer. The coalition of the Iraqi Security forces slaughtered them in large numbers. Since then, they have not tried to do that. When they move in the open, they conceal their weapons and take their guns out of the backs of trucks and take down their flags , and keep a very low profile, which makes it very difficult. Tell, whichways to i will not going to invite it is a challenging problem, and we whicho work very hard i will not go into here, but it is a very challenging problem, and we had worked very hard. Toare working just as hard not allow them to have that advantage. Host speaking of challenges and complicating factors, there is a story in todays wall street journal about the russian efforts in syria in the mediterranean assisting the assad regime against the rebel fighters there. Can you talk about russias military presence, and how that is complicating your efforts . Guest ok. Sure. Part, the russian operation in syria dont have a huge impact on operations. They are mostly focused on fighting the civil war that one of the callers refer to. And propping up the a side. We are focused on i fightingsil we are focused on fighting in syria. Cating isil air will fly through the space in iraq and syria on occasion. Those engagements are usually very professional and disciplined, and they go their way legal hours. They go their way and we will go ours. We basically see and avoid each other. Host general, we have a minute before you go. Just want to ask you about u. S. Service member casualties in operation in this operation. The last two u. S. Operations the last two u. S. Casualties were in bomb units. Can you talk about the danger of that job, and if any more can be done to protect those soldiers . Guest yes, thanks for that question. Our Service Members, u. S. Service members and Coalition Members that are in harms way over here. Some more than others, especially those out on the battlefield helping our partners. A bomb mentioned disposal technician. Our last two americans that we lost here in action were both explosive technicians. All of our troopers out there are in harms way to one degree or another. If you are here, you are in harms way. Totake every measure we can protect our Service Members. There are those out there helping our partners be successful, bringing them capabilities and explosives disposal is what they are lacking in, and we are trying to build that up. Any of those Service Members doing that task will be at increased risk. First of all, my heart and condolences go out to their families. God bless them and their families and their teammates. We tried to protect all of our troops. Our troops are volunteers. They know what they are about, and they know the risk involved. Carehey are trying to take of themselves, and we are try to take care of them as we go about this important work, that is important not only for iraq and syria, but for the United States , an important for the entire evil scourge, this blight on the world, called isil is eradicated. I want to thank you, not just for your time, but for your service as well, and for talking to our viewers on the washington journal. Thanks for having me. Host up next, we will be joined by max stier, the president and ceo of the partnership for Public Service. We will talk about Donald Trumps transition process with the inauguration just nine weeks away. By natoe will be joined secretary general talking about the future of Transatlantic Relations under a president donald trump. We will be right back. With donald trump elected as the next u. S. President , Melania Trump becomes our second foreignborn second lady. Learn more about americas president ial spouses from cspans book first ladies. It is a look into the personal lives of every president ial spouse and american history. It is a companion to the biography series and features , biographies, and photos from their lives. It is available wherever you buy books. It is available in paperback. Follow the transition of government on cspan, as donald trump becomes the 45th president of the United States and republicans maintain control of the u. S. House and senate. We will take you to key events as they happen without interruption. Watch live on cspan. Watch ondemand had www. Cspan. Org, or listen on her free cspan radio app or listen on our free cspan radio app. Washington journal continues. Host max stier is back to talk about president ial transitions from his perspective with his work at the partnership for Public Service. Stier, what isx it . Guest we are a nonpartisan, Nonprofit Organization try to make federal government more effective. We try to make the president ial transition process smoother and more effective. We have found that it all begins in the administration. We are focused on trying to make this the best transition. With theough your work president ial transition, you have been calling for both candidates during the election to start preparing for this transition as far back as january of last year. There was a column in the Washington Post about it. How well did president elect donald trump for prayer for this transition . Guest we saw the very best transition season preelection there has ever been. , Hillary Clinton and donald trump, had a very aggressive preelection transition efforts that started before the conventions. Never seen that historically were both Major Party Candidates have had such a positive and fruitful investment in transition planning that early on. Then candidate trump did the right thing. Chris christie put together a great operation, but now they are in gametime mode and have to move because there is a lot to be done. Host how many decisions have to get made . How many jobs need to be filled . Guest it is impossible to overstate the complexity of this task. You have a 4 trillion organization. You have 4 Million People when you talk about the military. 4000 political appointees, 1100 of them that have to be senateconfirmed. This is something no other country, democracy on the planet has a number of political appointment set come in. It is a phenomenally complicated and difficult task. And then the need to deal with budgeting issues. That you willget be expected to present to congress one month after the inauguration. The list goes on and on. The reality is there will be a bunch of things you cannot anticipate. Host are you working with president elect trump in this process . We have no authority. We are a Nonprofit Organization, but we are assisting in every way we can from information about what is required for these jobs. 4000 political appointments. There are no available position descriptions for these jobs. The government put out a book listing out the job titles, but nothing about what the requirements are for doing the jobs well. We are in the process of producing those to the trump transition effort, but to the scented but to the senate and others so they have an idea about what those core requirements are. Host we are talking with max stier. If you have questions about the transition process, democrats call 2027488000. Republicans called 2027488001. Ndependents, 2027488002 lines are open and you can start calling in now. The amountsk about of turnover we saw at the beginning of the transition process, and whether that is normal . The atlantic magazine had this to say about the early days of the trunk transition is this normal . Guest there is no normal in transition planning. In bar is low given the fact that no prior president has actually done this the way that it needs to be done today. I shouldve started with this point, which is transition is not just about taking over a is the organization, but point of maximum vulnerability from our country. It has to be concerned. The preelection planning that the trump team did was very strong. It creates a new issue. You have to then merger preelection transition operations with a campaign operation. Messyscribed a pretty example of that. We are in the early days of the trump transition effort. Not about naming the top people. Making sure that they have been cleared with ethics issues they may have, background checks, bring them up to the senate for those confirmed positions. They should have their team on the field in real time. If we are looking for some of those mileposts, what needs to happen early december . What needs to happen by the end of the year . Willwill be you what you be looking for nine weeks down the road . Guest you need to be sure to make sure you put your top people, and see the activity ofurring not just at the top the cabinet, but further down like the deputy secretary. Host are we see see that yet . Guest not yet. It is pretty early. If you are going to get done what we think needs to happen, you have to have a much more accelerated process. Can the trump team scale . They will not be able to run everyone through the process. Host 4000 different guest certainly, you would be talking about hundreds of folks. Teams to be about putting together. These folks need to Work Together effectively. The trump operation did a lot of good planning. Are they using that planning to achieve the goals . Host what is an example of that good planning . Guest guest that they put together good landing teams, a group of people that enter into agencies to do some due diligence, and understand the issues inside the agency. They have to be thinking about what their Campaign Promises are and implementing them. There are a bunch of agencies not seen landing teams arrive. , ceo we are with max stier for partnership for Public Service. Democrats, 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. We will start with james in chattanooga, tennessee. A democrat. Guest i was wondering if the gentleman knew what it means to be bipartisan, and if you would be just as willing to work with the Clinton Administration if the need should arise . Guest i love the question, james. Experience,rough and like many people in washington, i have been in the partisan world, and i prefer the nonpartisan stuff. But we do as a partnership, president elect trump is the pilot on our airplane, and we have to hope hes succeeds we have to hope that he succeeds and that our government is as effective as possible. The answer to your question is absolutely. I would be happy to help whoever the president elect was. We have been helping both sides. At one point, we were helping five different campaigns to make sure that they would be ready if in fact they got the nod from their party and was selected by the American People. Host who were those five . Crews in april, we had campaign, kasich campaign, trump campaign, clinton campaign, the romney ready this project we had helped four years ago, and folks of the obama white house. This comes back to the gentlemans question. Focusing on what needed to happen to make sure our next president was ready to go on day one. As one of the participants said, everyone laid their swords down at the door, and there was a common understanding among the group that they had a common interest. This is one of the phenomenal things about america is that you hard is that you fight hard during the election, and we all have a function. Host sam, maryland, democrat. Caller hi, good morning. A , there was a lot of talk on the news as trump was taking his advisers and thinking about his team. A lot of lobbyists had infiltrated that process, which goes against his promise to drain the swamp. I was wondering if your guest has any thoughts on that, or maybe an update on how that discussion is evolving in the transition . Guest sure. I think the drain the swamp metaphor is a very powerful one, and there is no doubt there are important things that ought to be done to make sure our government is responsive to the people, and not simply to special interests. I think youan area will see more activity for the Trump Administration. Trump team. Have done veryts early on in administration laid down markers about what they expect from their political appointments. Lobbyists are an easy target. To make sure people who are serving in our government are actually most that they motivated for the right reasons. But it is not enough. One of the things we need to keep an eye on is the kinds of rules and regulations of the Trump Administration will put weo place to guarantee that have a more ethical government. Things i cannot resist saying is one way we do that in our country is by making sure we have a Career Civil Service. Over one hundred years ago, we had a president literally assassinated a would be office seeker. It makes no sense that we have 4000 political appointments right now. It is a vestige of the spoils system. One way we can help drain the swamp is reduced the number of political appointments. The president should be able to run the government according to the policies that the president has been elected on. But you do not need 4000 appointment to do that. You need a very strong and capable Career Civil Service. Needs to be reformed in big ways, too. Host i wonder if you have thoughts about Donald Trumps proposed hiring freeze on federal employees to reduce the federal workforce through retirements, attrition . Is that something that is effective, and will create an effective federal government . Guest not at all. The motivation is a good one. It is a government that has done wonders for the American People, but not billed for today or tomorrows world. Changes need to take place. A hiring freeze is not one of them. It has been done before. Reagan and carter had tried that. What they found is it cost the government or money. You dont freeze and play something that is not right or today or tomorrow. Let me give you a strong example you think about i. T. In these to be reformed in a big way. Federal government spends 90 billion. Look at the workforce. There are more people over the age of 65, and under the age of 30 in i. T. In the federal government. Do you believe want to freeze that into place . That is not the right policy. You need to refresh the workforce and get the right talent in to reduce costs of government that is where you want to go. Freezing the workforce is not the way to do it and will cause more damage. Good idea, wrong way to do it. Host as a caller mentioned, lots of discussion of the top of the government workforce, the appointments. Here is the latest, lead story in todays wall street journal talking about the emerging battle over secretary of state. Discussionsiggest is whether to me mitt romney who emerged as mr. Trumps early despite for the post, his criticism of him. Whencalated sunday Kellyanne Conway said on cnn that a breathtaking number of people would feel betrayed and mr. Romney got the prominent cabinet post after the had opposed mr. Trump so publicly. When these picks are made and when donald trump settles on who will be in these positions, do you have any suggestions or strategies to make the easy, and process as not drawn out as possible . Fort there is a tendency every Transition Team in every administration to focus on taking their people. They dont really focus on what happens next. Is who you pick and how you prepare. You need to pick wellqualified people. Job descriptions are essential. You need to make sure you get into the process effectively. One area that is critical is understanding that process. The president does not have the same conflict and ethnic ethics rules apply to them. But everyone else does. You have to clear the ethics reviews at the office of government ethics. You have to go through a background check through the fbi. All of thatlie and work up and have Clear Communication with the Senate Committees is a vital to getting these people in place quickly. Interesting note there 17 Senate Committees that have jurisdiction over nominees of those 1100. They have their own individual, separate process. It is a very, very big list. Then you have to think about those folks when they arrive. Ud to make sure they are to make you need sure they are prepared to run the government effectively. You need to understand the differences. I have seen great people come in a delay and not understand differences around the hiring process, the federal budget, how you worked with congress, and they make mistakes that can be avoided. One of the things we have done is create a curriculum for new political appointee so they can avoid those mistakes and start out right. Host one followup on that mitt coming out during our program today, two sources confirm to msnbc that they spoke to the president elect Annette Donald trump was furious about Kellyanne Conways comments suggesting that donald trump pretrade the voters. If you want to talk transitions with max stier, the phone democrats, 2027488000. Republicans, 2027488001. Nd independents, 2027488002 or you can send us a tweet. A tweet sent in says suggestions for the Trump Administration on how to deal with Donald Trumps Business Issues . Guest it is a challenging one. The law allows for a lot of latitude for the president , but the politics is not so clear. Is basic point i would make campaigning and governance are very different propositions. Is veryhat pivot challenging for any president ial candidate. For president elect trump, making sure she is making sure he is investing in the expertise to understand the changes vital. Maintained over the weekend there white house counsel, which is an incredibly important position. He will need to rely on it will be important for him to ng people to understand of people that understand the federal government. To run as an outsider, you are an outsider. Youre not familiar with the institution you are trying to change if you dont have good advisors. Youre not be able to take the institution the way you want. It is really important to understand business principles ought to be applied in federal government, but the government cannot be run exactly like the business. That difference is essential in something the president elect needs to get his arms around the key is going to be a good president. Host bloomberg reporting over the week and that you will likely be the point person overseeing any trump involvement in this recount effort that is now underway in wisconsin. A lot for him to handle. Louisiana, a democrat. Ray, good morning. Caller good morning, young man. Trump wasdonald trying to unite the country was going to unite the country want to got elected. I am an old man. The people who is appointed in his cabinet the is dividing this country more than i have ever seen in my lifetime. We are headed for destruction. I so sorry for the minorities in america. Donald trump will learn and Mitch Mcconnell are the big players. They do, sir, and you have a ,eautiful day thank you, sir and you have a beautiful day. Guest your point was a good one. At the end of the day, we have a country with a government with equal branches, and congress is an entity that has to be reckoned with. One of the critical jobs of the Transition Team is not only to get your team on the field in realtime, but also develop effective relationships with critical stakeholders. One of those is congress immediately out of the gate. Then the senate. You have to get your people through the confirmation process, which could be a challenge. It has taken Prior Administrations over a year in order to get their full team, or core team in place. On average, it is more than two months when the first person is confirmed. Developing a Good Relationship with congress is essential, but tois also important understand that your job is not just dealing with congress. Host in the meantime, while that process takes place, there will be a lot of Obama Administration appointees that will let the stick around for a while at the beginning of the Trump Administration . Guest the answer is, the 4000 political appointees serve at the pleasure of the president and have also knitted, or should have they have all submitted letters of recommendation they have all submitted, or should have submitted letters of resignation. You see a lot of folks leaving from the political side. They essentially should all be gone by the inauguration. There will be people in acting positions taking over from the people who have left. They are wonderful and very capable. They will have a shorterterm time horizon. It is not that the government will be without leadership, but it will not have people in place will have that job for an extended curable of time. It is critical that get histelect trump team and to place very quickly. Naperville, illinois. Larry is on the line for republicans. Go ahead. Caller earlier, you mentioned that you would not have that that you would not suggest reading the headcount. But if you wanted to reduce the headcount, lower your recommendations be . Guest i was start with something that is unusual. There are 4000 political appointments. I would reduce the headcount in that number. It is unnecessary. And it causes big problems. People end up clogging the system. For example, the department of education has a highest numbers of political appointments per capita. It is not because they are needed. Past because that in some it is because it in the past, some president parked them there. By not filling those 4000 jobs, which they do not have to do. Look at particular job types. Like the rest of the world, the government doesnt need as many administrative folks. There are places you could ily restructure the works the work to make it more effective. Key issue is not only to look at the federal workers as equivalent of the size of government, we actually have the same number of federal workers as we did in the kennedy administration. The real key is to look at the money in the budget. You need to look at the whole thing and thinking about what our priorities are and where we need to make our investment or the return on investment how do we make a government run more efficiently . Technology . Better talent in certain areas . Or having better processes in the system . Looking at the enterprise, not just a single agencies. Host louisville, kentucky. Bob is waiting on the line for independents. Caller thank you for letting me talk. I just want to make a comment on what they said trump got mad at nne turned into the voters about not wanting mitt romney. Well, i believe that. Once a turncoat, always a turncoat. , butump cannot see that hes not the man then he is not the man i voted for. Host rob, stockton, california. Go ahead. I will like to see you put the deck the debt clock on the screen. And i hope you will give me a couple of minutes. Caller 20 trillion in debt. How can you defend how good politicians run our government . Thats what should be they should put that in the united and congress right next to the flag and in god we show that clock every day they make a law, they need to start stop those programs in all the little good programs, except for this country and agriculture and a couple ifferent divisions and get rid of all the waste. Another thing, im so tired of is not ing donald trump for every american and any color of this country. Was Illegal Immigrants that have come in this country are tearing it down, he was not against anybody. Im tired of the twist on the saying and people calling saying these against this person. Ity or guest it is important coming ack to your first issue you raise, to take apart what you said. No argument about whether the done a l leaders have good job running the government. It is important to recognize we service that civil is independent of the political. Political folks give the Career Civil Service a bad name. Career Civil Service are in job, chosen on a merit basis, there are focus is trying requirements of Political Leadership and provide best management of government can f. They dont have good leaders that, i will not succeed. What we see in government, leadership failing to work for fundamentally failing the American People, too. To your basic point, we need not more than we have. One way to do that, make sure we ave a more effective government. We would have a more effective government if congress was a etter steward of the executive ranch, they gave budgets on time, they had capital budgets, so you were not trying to spend over a single year, they look at the enterprise of government. Back to the it issue, fundamental, 90 million of spend. We have systems in the federal overnment that are over 50 years old, makes no sense at all. They are chopped up in little making we are not investments to save money. Host how much money is being of 90 billion to maintain ld systems as opposed to guest 80 . 80 , a crazy number. Place an example of a not just spend, but implication, what you have is government that keeping up with the world around it, this is an area i highly recommend for the say, look, we have an opportunity to do what the aller suggested needs to happen, make government more efficient, have a broad strategy modernize the it infrastructure, make early End Investments to save money down stream, it is not just supporting a 50yearold system, would be a big deal, they need congress to go along with that. Of work hugely impactful, the other thing i would add, president obama did things in this area, really important that new doesntration coming in throw out everything that the Prior Administration did, but chooses and finds things that are good to carry talent, tech talent brought in on a shortterm basis would be a program that ought to carried forward. Host forks washington, doug is a republican. Morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call, i got through. Comment and one quick question. My comment is, donald trump did good start on draining the slump because he retired the and bushes, mas that is a good start. My question is, you said when in, you have me curriculum, new people, were peep theyll ew maybe not career politicians in here, but you said curriculum that will get them trained or government, to the but doesnt that take away the blood from come nothing with their own idea of how to change and do things . My question, why do they have to be trained to work in government . How does that help our change . Guest great question. When people are brought in with a different perspective that perspective you learn from it. But as i said earlier, i dont innk you can change a system effective way if you dont understand it. The reason we have our change the s not to outsider perspective, but to give them the understanding of allow them hat will to successfully change government. An example would be the federal you dont ess, if understand the federal budget process, you dont understand ou any given time have the budget process going on at the same time, youre not going to resources toentify align against your priorities and make sure you have the right stuff done in e realtime, or the hiring process, if you dont understand it and try to bring peep nel a way not of the nt with the law land, you get yourself in big trouble. The key here is not to try to outsiders washingtonians, i dont like that term, 85 is outside of d. C. , but to make understanding an ,f the United States government so they can operate with the perspective that are are to the environment. That is true inside the government or anywhere else, the military or another company, you would have to learn the culture, what the rules are inside there changes to make the that you want. If you dont, you will get yourself in big trouble and that often. Way too host lots of calls waiting. Maryland, go ahead, democrat. Caller hey, thank you for call, i really appreciate it. Know, cern is that, you when you walk over the trump, ion team of discover there was not any area team y the transition like out to other parties the independent party and the democrat. Know we are qualified people this is our country, walk sdpth get peep kel reach out to those in the system to help the transition. Guest so i think the caller is governance is different than campaigning and you hope to see a poll toward talent. Set of just in fairness sake, the is crazy and cess gruelling. So, when president elect obama were 300,000 resumes submitted to him. And i dont ber have any other data saying trump resumes, the 0 incoming is extraordinary and is United States government a large entity that has a lot of resources, transition doesnt. All of the Interest Groups pouring sxout pouring entity, the Transition Team, which makes it a difficult process for them. Some degree, managing stakeholders, being able to effectively as possible to broader country is important in transition activity. All fairness to them, it is task. Ordinarily different host is there one senior cabinet position reserved for member of the other party . Is there some place where that reaching out usually occurs . Lahood being appointed secretary of transportation. Had lahood and normeta, that is one in recent seen an have individual of the opposite party selected for the spot. Obama kept on, secretary gates at dod, it is of the ive president elect about what they want to do, how they want to communicate. Think, again, the important thing to recognize is that different. Is we do have any in making sure whatever your Party Affiliation president is able to succeed at running our government to provide Services Want and need and i think part of it is ommunication and outreach, but i think also a lot is how do you make sure you get the best spot and the top throughout the political appointments that are made . Aquaneta, is next, democrat. The r i have to say on part of immigrants, i think reason we stand the have so many here is because big business and i saw it years ago, they go and bring people here a lot of the jobs like wine and apes for the fruit in florida and California Construction companies and maintenance companies, they go over to mexico and actually i of my friends say, they go and recruit people to come here. Cards run out, they host certainly a topic we washington on the journal, do you have a question about president ial transition . At er yeah, im looking that, too, and i was listening because of g that mitt romney and all the stuff he president elect that i guess maybe speaks on his not f said they will consider him, but i think they hould consider him versus giuliani, im not thinking he could be secretary of state. Host next hour, not sure if you ant to jump in on specific recommendation. Guest i cant say about who would be the better secretary of state. Think, you know, what is interesting, to see the process public ut in such a fashion. I think coming back to the anyone is cess that interested about president ial ransition stuff go to our website, president ial transition ot org, we have a ton of information up there. Maybe not argument about giuliani or romney, what does it require . What does the job do, require to make that successful person and ng the organization they can see those position descriptions on our website at the partnership for Public Service. President ial transition dot org, simple. Host appreciate that. Ahead washington, go caller good morning. During the obama transition, as bush, each president basically has a different method so on my question with donald trump is because i think lacks so much government experience and i know hes quite aing himself with is washingtonians and it probably a myth because you need infrastructure and you need knowhow, but i also find that the appointees in ady havent really been washington for a decade. Governor, y haley they have conflict in their past, as well as sessions, to affect going confirm snagz not all jobs gallon through senate confi the lack of and experience with a president that se . Really no experience per the buck stops at the residents desk, hes got to have some basic knowledge. If someone around him will not produce that, im concerned about the fact donald very little with knowledge and he is staffing himself with everyone who is potentially effective, also, haley ambassadorship and galos from different sections of the country. Host got your point, lets respond. Guest this is a critical notion is that weve had an election, there has been strong nterest clearly in seeing that outsider voice change to our government, which again is the democratic process, but to be successful, i think he caller is right, you absolutely have to have people experienced and understand the system. Would endly amendment i make, i dont see conflict in having people familiar with the provide expertise and the notion of draining the swamp. Who are plenty of people have expertise and are interested in making government more ethical and effective. The question for president elect trump is can he dentify and bring into his circle not just one, but a good mix of folks, some from the some who have substantial knowledge from the inside and understanding what information needs to be about because while congress, picks,are seeing in some is pretty well represented, it is not just about congress, the a very e branch is Different Organization and knowing how to run that effectively is vital. Made one last point i would highlight, if you are picking folks who had eight yearsbut from ago, the government has changed, has changed and you need to refresh that understanding, as well. Relying on the career workforce is one way youll have to do that. Host here is a tweet you might appreciate. Blaming the federal Civil Service personnel for the state f the country is like blaming the School Cafeteria cook for the menu. Guest interesting. Republican, julie, go ahead. Caller good morning. To be very knowledgeable, so my question without people who have worked in the government, does know how the other countries have run . Could another hitler come in here and bring in ll of his staff and all of the people that he wants and have supreme ess and the court and everything behind him, by could we be taken over hitler again . Guest checks and balances. No, you chose the right word, checks and balances, we have a a lot of t survived challenge over the years that some people complain about the difficulty of getting stuff done because we have separation of powers. In fact, pretty unique system about the global environment. So i would say that we have a resillient is highly at the end of the day, we had an lection, we will have another national flkz two years. Another two years and we have the congress and the courts and we have, you know, folks in branch. Utive its a system that has worked really well. The one thing that i would add, do really need some change in our government. Civile again, back to the service system, that system that anages the talent we have, increasingly important. Designed in 1949 in large respects, the world has changed need to see it updated, do things like provide paying ased system for civil servant, instead of the system we have now, not well connected. Lots of change ought to happen and hopefully well see that with the Trump Administration. If the wonder partnership for Public Service has taken a stance on the change might bring for congress, any thoughtos Donald Trumps effort to push term members . R house guest honestly, that is a ittle bit outside of where we take an opinion. What i would say, congress responsible as any Political Leadership in the inefficiency that you see in branch. E really four ways congress is branch, confirmation rocess is one of them, budgets is Something Else i brought up, they do underlining laws and oversight. Better e ways they can manage the federal government see y hope is that well the new Congress Take more active interest in their role in providing better government for he American People through effective oversight of the people. Ahead. Ets ghet bill, go caller good morning, gentlemen. On the history channel, there is documentary about the new modern clan. Leaders of the modern clan stated in the documentary, they were turn nothing their hoods for ties and suits to infiltrate the entire level of the government. With this transition steady now, see it as a complete klan. Ition for the your checks and balances doshgs they check that . Answer u, ill get my off the phone. Ost background check for the positions . Guest for 1100 Senate Confirmed positions there is confirmation process, senate hearings, background checks, anyone who has security clearance will have a background check, as well. On the Career Civil Service tis based on merit. Here are real checks and balances here to make sure that well qualified people are selected for the positions and at the end of the day, lections occur in two and four years. Host max stier on twitter, the r Public Service and it is r Public Service dot org, online. So much. Ank you host up next, talking about under d future of nato the Trump Administration, well be joined by former nato general Anders Fogh Rasmussen, that is coming up in a minute or two here on washington journal. Announcer tonight on the communicators. I hope any kind of copyright rewrite will come with requirement or some kind of data into or putting central repository, peep kel ave access to it, it can be searched on an individual item by item basis and a scaled run 21 2 use we million songs through and well et more special more everyday moving toward on demand. Steve benecounsel on over Digital Music services, law, ticket pyright Price Inflation and competition for en humans and bots concert tickets mrchlt bene is nterviewed by Technology Reporter for politico. Whatey do buy tickets, but they do, they keep other fans out of the market. Finding is that some concert to go see a and can mash the buttons on their computer all day long, but bot. Ant beat a they are not able to get tickets their listrst run at price and so they are left with the only opportunity of buying the secondary market after bots have gotten them and promoters, who raise prices. Announcer watch on cspan rs tonight 2. Announcer cspan, history unfolds daily. As a79, cspan was created Public Service by americas Cable Television companies and today by your ou or sat light provider. Host Anders Fogh Rasmussen joins us for a discussion of the treaty lantic organization. Anders Fogh Rasmussen, former secretary general of nato and of er Prime Minister denmark. Before the election, you said ou feared for the safety and security of europe and the west, if donald trump were elected. That way now . Eel guest well, my statement was actually said e andng the Election Campaign one specific statement was of concern, namely that e raised thoughts about the american commitment to actually defending iran. Was on the campaign trail. Now hes become president elect and soon he will be inaugurated president. I hope he understands that as cannot raise such doubts because that would undermine nato. Host what have his appointments, his picks for posts, meant rity to you . What signals are you seeing in general michael flynn, national advisor, mike pompeo, c. I. A. Director. James mattis as defense secretary . I think hes picked and all the rumors about who he as secretary of secretaryd maybe also of state, are promising. We know hese people, that they are reasonable people. Reissue anance, be and the circumstances are very important. For what is proper role the United States for nato . Guest that is a general tatement from my side and reasonably i published the will my main point is United States retreats from the world or the united retreat, you n to will leave behind a vacuum, a vacuum. , within natowe see we need American Leadership and the americans to actually use nato. What does get out of the commitment it is to nato . Get a lot. I would say nato is the best field you have ever done ecause you share costs with other countries and while i ully agree also with president elect trump, that the europeans should pay much more our common security, it is a act that the europeans have actually contributed a lot, for but nce, in afghanistan, also in other places in the troops e have deployed and by that, we have helped the United States, so for a you get a low cost, lot of defense, that is really value for money. To evolve . Nato need guest absolutely. Yeah, well, youve just seen how nato has responded to russian aggression in eastern europe. Ukraine,sian attack on nato decided to reinforce deploying efense by. Ore troops in the middle east, the area where i do believe that Trump Administration could use nato much more host Anders Fogh Rasmussen, 2014. 009 to of the will to lead. Well be talking about nato for the last halfhour of the program, hes here to answer questions and comments. Phone numbers, 2027488000, democrats. Republicans, 2027488001. Independents, 2027488002. Specially line for those outside of the United States, love to bring you into the 2027488003. Louisiana, m republican, malcolm, you are on Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Caller good morning. Guest good morning. Caller first of all, like to guy a statement on that that was before, i am tired of hearing them comparing trump to ber. Obama just bypassed all kind of all over the place and he far ruled as king or as as with nato. Host the caller made that comparison, not our guest. Go ahead with your comment about nato. Im about theato, same opinion with the united nations, United States supplies most troops, almost all the is a big all we get bill and a lot of problems. Et everybody that is in there, let them pay the same amount, you know, as what we do and put the same number of troops as handle do and let them themselves like that, instead of United States having to be the europe, asia, r middle east. Im tired of the United States having to do all this stuff on people to time for come up and pony up their share of the money. Rasmussen. Right, mr. Guest i understand very well your question. Indicated, i fully agree. Least 2 gdpest as in defense. Host how many countries do that now . Out ofactually only five 28 that do that right now, but 2016 already, a lot of nato countries invest in defense than they did in in that respect president putinaggressive behavior should d europeans they pay more. Having said that, i do not agree when you say that the others handle things themselves. Directly, whether you like it or not, i think the u. S. Should be world policemen. It is not proper in all camps, requires policemen to restore into national law and order and whether you like it or the u. S. Is the only super global rate and with that responsibility also that exceptional ecision also comes special responsibilities. It is in the u. S. Selfinterest, to be the world you do notbecause if go abroad, you do not go overseas and strike your enemies there, they will hit you in the saw in that is what we 9 11. Selfinterest to demonstrate leadership. Brandon, go ahead. Caller the guest mentioned forces after to russian involvement in ukraine. Insinuation show that baltic ould speak the state necessary a matter of first so that is my point. The second point, where is nato whole rd to the Immigration Crisis in terms of keeping the bad people from themselves among the nnocent when they are fleeing into europe . We t yeah, on the latter, have really strengthened the vetting procedures in europe. Obviously, we cannot give 100 is an evolving project, but i feel sure that we do what it takes to prevent those people from entering europe. Host what are some examples of that . What will it take and how much do that . Ost to take, yeah, well, it will i dont know the cost, as such, figure. Know the investment by ew the United States . Guest no, now we are speaking about europe, as i understand it. Host right. Uest and of course it will be an investment, actually, i do where wehis is an area need more europe. I would suggest that in europe hand over the external border union. To the european the problem in europe is that we movement old the free within europe if dow not trust Border Control. I would suggest a strengthened external Border Control and hand to the European Union, that is controversial question, similar to the system you have in the u. S. , you that. Learn from host first question was about theia and its abilities, in baltic states, how to prevent, f they may true, concerted effort to take over that territory, how could we stop that. Guest yeah. This is the reason why we have so called readiness plan in that iscore point a spear head force, a very Rapid Reaction force that can be three ed within two or days, and when the rapid force has been deployed, it would be followed more massive troop ton what is we have done , cessary here now, i agree there is a situation that could e closely monitored and i also think that we need to take further steps if the russians aggressive behavior, i do believe time has to consider the establishment of permanent basis the east because eventually that is the only way to prevent russian attack. You wanda, a republican, are on with Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Caller i would like to say what nato when nato cant has protect europe, which lost its will to exist . They dont even acknowledge the there is a stealth invasion happening all over going right now that is islamacize the content, what nato anyhow . Guest yeah, i do believe that nato is and will remain the bedrock of Europe Atlantic security, in europe and as well the u. S. We massively enlarged nato because they know countries know that hey are better defended within nato. Than outside so i dont think it is correct that europe has lost will to exist. U. S. Contrary, ost interested to hear from youcallers, special line if are outside the u. S. Listening in. Folks are calling in, how does one become secretary general of your path to that role . Question. D i served as Prime Minister of years before iht secretary general of nato, actually i didnt know until the very last minute would be possible because one nation, namely turkey, was strongly opposed to election as general of nato. Host why . I dont know, maybe some that in 2006, we cartoon crisised daily ark because the newspaper had published some characature of the prophet mohammad, many muslims were opposed to it and we experienced the arab streets. Turksst that was what the use to oppose my candidacy. Eventually they accepted. Host is that unanimous . Yes, another important eature of nato, all decisions must be taken unanimously, which that you cannot act in acceptance from all 28 allies and that goes for of secretary general. Host does that slow things down . Way, it does. N a on the other hand, once you have can ved consensus, then we actually move i think our in 2011 is libya excellent example of that, it to take the e decision decision, american s an force europe always left by european. It is mr. Strongbeck from me it , before him and was from the netherlands. Rotational system, but always based on unanimous decisions within nato. Kentucky, mike is a republican. Mike, go ahead. Aller yes, good morning and thank you for taking my call. Was hearing you earlier about how you said it was, you know, n our best interest as americans to have military bases country and if we pulled out of there, it would probably be about that. N youre indicating that we have or youre going instead to me, youre of paying for protection, you us . To bribe us to protect guest no, im not bribing least or at least ot the americans on the contrary, i really appreciate contributions to our security from the second world until now, but what i do is when i need americans who the roletant to accept say, e worlds leader, i you have a selfinterest in ctually demonstrating that leadership. Firstly, as mentioned, it is in selfinterest to appoint being hit on your own soil by abroad, going overseas, on soil as you did in afghanistan. It comes to o when security policy, prevention is better and cheaper than cure or treatment, its in americas selfinterest to prevent knockdown conflicts while they re still small and mendable, instead of sitting by on the fence and seeing them growing bigger and it comes to security policy, prevention ala them. T end that is what we show in the 30s, which led to the second and you paid high price and brought pressure. Finally, i would also mention oura. Merican network the american let rulesbased introduced after econd world war by president tr truman and all president s since then, at least until president w. Bush adhered to that principle, that america should to be the leader of hat world order and it is in your selfinterest to make sure world that ntain a is rules based, that is cutrade freely all over the world. Reasons, i think its hard to be the it is in yourmen, interest to do if. Host the will to lead americas indispensable role in the global fight for freedom ame out in september of 2016, the author is with us, former danish Prime Minister, former nato, here eneral of for the next 20 minutes on washington journal. Is in lake dallas, texas, a democrat. Ray, good morning. Caller good morning. I love cspan. Thank you so much. Hello, anders, thank you for extraordinary service. I have a question and im going e oversimplify this, you can dissect it. S nato is currently structured by country, i believe, if it is still. The european nions advantage to classify nato under the European Union know, those you nations would of course join the union and therefore when cost sharing comes into european way the union as a whole can pony up opposed to hare as the United States, equally, equally, and leave it to the European Union to figure out and sort out what those how much they can pony up, how much they could put on their ability. I understand not all countries same amount up. Not trying to say every country amount of the same their. , it will be dmifl will be difficult in the future. I am oversimplify, i think you understand where im going. With declaring, here is my second question, im going to this wrong. Whenever a country in the nato attacked, lets say, for example, when the terrorists attacked france, could they would there not be a title for them to declare five under nato and we all come together and now were together nato and now were fighting isis, that is one part of this. Part, in my estimation, isis declared califate, so now you have you know, you understand the issues that each under resident bush, he had and trying to capture the bad guys them under a military tribunal, which did not country, that went bellyup pretty quick. Oft ray, you bring up a lot topics. Lets give Anders Fogh Rasmussen a chance to tackle them. Part of your st question, if i understand about ly, is a question nvolving the e. U. More, so to the e. U. , wont be realistic, not the right way forward. Agree with you that it would be good idea if the members of would invest more in defense and that would be a way forward than ome of the current efforts within the e. U. , according to want to develop an capability defense within the e. U. Way. Lieve that is the wrong think the e. U. Should be able to use nato assets when the European Union decides to take for instance in africa. Take o doesnt want to ction the e. U. Could take action and use nato assets to do so. Of military one set capabilities, so they cannot money on both e. U. Defense on nato, so i think the the way forward would be best and secondly you mentioned countries its hard more. Mically to contribute well, let me mention one example, that it can be done, if you have the right priorities. Astonia, for instance, they were by economic crisis years ago, they have carried out ecessary forms and they have decided to spend 2 of gdp on do nse, so when astonia can that, all nations within the union could do that. Second part of your question, question host the fight against isis and countries going to that have been hit by isis through attacks going nato to try to respond. Guest yeah. I think it would be a good idea. Noted that when france was hit severely by the terrorist year, france ecided not to invoke article v of nato, but a kind of simil lar host remind us what article v does. Guest let me remind you, states we n nato consider attack on one an attack if the russians or e. U. And you her that we invoke article france ll continue, but didnt. They asked the European Union fact is theye, the didnt get anything. It the fact is that when comes to hard security, nato is in town. Show mention , let me also one thing that is respect which interesting. The only example in the history nato has invoked 9 11. Le v was after and so in that respect, the the only member f nato, which has properties from this clause of article v. Ost warren, michigan, greg is a republican, good morning. Caller good morning, people. This d like to ask question. T seems to me the only reason nato absolutely can exist is a functioning body is because the nato. D states has been if we were to withdraw from nato, the United States itself would still be safe. Have two oceans, a Massive Nuclear arsenal, 10 carrier groups to defend us. With due respect have to say way it is onomy the now, i dont see how we can nato. Ue to be in it is great astonia spends 10 being small me country on defense, but it is on russia. Er with continued expanse in the 90s in s to have left us situation we can get draged into wars over things less and less interest of the United States. Thank you both very much, hope good morning. Guest yes. Thank you very much. I fully agree with you, if the withdraw from nato, you would cease to exist, are completely right. That argument also misses the point, namely that was established back in fact that because the americans realized that it was necessary to create Security Organization to protect europe from attack from the soviet in that respect also itself. United states and that is my point. Were to withdraw from nato and nato ceased to exist, can be sure, president putin advance in ould europe. Not only because the european is weaker than the u. S. Defense, but also because the not in full agreement on how to approach russia. Accomodating than others. You can be sure host what is the right approach your mind . Guest a tough hand. I can tell you, i know from many putin, with president that as much as he likes to image as the own strong man, he also respects the power when he meets it. Firm, have be very you to demonstrate unity, egotiate with him from a position of strength. Host you think donald trump will do that . Guest i hope so, i hope he will realize how important it is and think he will realize his predecessor, president george w. Bush also started by trying to laperate better relationship with russia, just to realize putin invaded ordan and president obama started also by resetting the relations with russia. Ou have to realize that in 2014, he invaded ukraine. Both of them started positively, they ended up realizing mr. Changed at all. m not opposed to trying to improve the relationship with russia and i wish mr. Trump all respect, but i if he does not exercise firm policy toward the kremlin, he will make exactly like his tworience predecessors. Point back to the question, my point is that it is in the u. S. Selfinterest to ake sure that you have a peaceful and friendly europe and hostile europe and that is in y the Lesson Learned war. G the second world the American Leadership realize it is not in americas interest hostile europe, you eastern nds on the shores of the atlantic ocean, today, in o the case my opinion, and this is reason the u. S. In selfinterest to uphold and nato. P host the will to lead americas indispensable role in the global fight for freedom, book, it came the out in september. Anders Fogh Rasmussen is the author of the former secretary nato. L of just a few minutes left to get to as many calls as we can. Texas, russell is up, line for democrats. Caller hello. Russell. Ahead, uest yeah, my question for anders, nato protects the merger , any chance of with the Pacific Fleet to form group . Thank you. Guest yep. All, nato is regional according to the reaty, you can only accept European Countries as members of nato, except of course for the u. S. And canada in north america. When it comes to the pacific region, i think we should go in in my direction and ook, i suggest that the u. S. President uses his convening assembles all the orlds democracy and create lines of democracy, which should count native countries and likeminded democracy across the australia and new zealand, japan, south korea, india, etcetera, and while of ourse democracy do not always agree on everything, i do likeminded democracy should go the extra mile. Ost that point, though, didifredricks notes attack attack against all articles, we discussed, she said, more members, more likely defending n a war somebody. Course. Of that is exactly what the u. S. Second world the war. If you take the debate in the the 20s and in the and i shall debate you had. They were well rotected as one asked the question this morning, were well protected, he said. And canada and ocean, ntic and pacific surrounded by frankly neighbors protected. E are well harbor was an rl example you were not well protected. You are nother example not well protected. You have to go overseas and fight he enemy, take the to the enemy. That is actually the will to make america great, to put americas interest first, to have nion, is also the will to lead. Ost mike in tampa, florida, democrat. Mike, go ahead. Caller good morning. Im looking at a map here of the sea and it includes areas showing taken and is his interest in syria, provides in both warm water places and hes pushed against ukraine and against georgia, i think. So my question is, turkey is thumb, there like a sore if my question i guess is basically how trustworthy is nato allie . If we lose turkey as a member of putin to t would allow increase his influence in the mediterranean. Thank you. Yes, you are right, unfortunately. Think from a Strategic Point of view, we have a vital keeping turkey as a member of nato. We also need to continue negotiations between turkey and European Union to make sure that the western oriented forces in part will continue their towards our western institutions. That, i hear a member of nato. We also need to your rights, regarding human regarding free speech, regarding liberties in turkey, so i think we should use the negotiations to continue ritical and constructive dialogue with turkey. We cannot compromise, of course, democratic principles, hand out, so to peak, turkey to the russian interests. Host again, a lot of topics we overed today are covered in your book, the will to lead, it just came out a couple months ago. O follow Anders Fogh Rasmussen twitter at anders fogh on twitter. Appreciate your time on washington journal. Thank you. Great pleasure. Do it for the program today, well see you back here tomorrow morning, 7 a. M. Eastern, 4 a. M. Pacific for another washington journal. Until then, have a great monday. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] heres a look at some of our Live Programming on the cspan networks. In half an hour or so we will bring you a discussion