Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20150505

Renewed criticism in the wake of the baltimore highprofile incidents. Were asking our viewers to weigh in on broken windows policing. Is it effective . Why or why not . For those who think it is not effective, a special line this morning for Law Enforcement. You can catch up with us on social media twitter, facebook or email us at journal cspan. Org. Talking about broken windows policing, best known for its implantation in new york city. It is a concept were Police Crackdown on petty crimes like a dualism and unruly behavior on vandalism and unruly behavior to keep larger crimes from happening. We will be talking more about it over the course of war to five minutes. 45 minutes. Do you think it is effective . That line for Law Enforcement broken windows policing is the subject of this npr story. More debate over broken windows policing. Police departments across the country are under pressure to rethink their most aggressive tactics. The story notes it is not just flashpoints like ferguson and baltimore. The new York Police Department is on the defensive about its longstanding approach known as rocha and windows policing broken windows policing. It has been copied all over the country but now critics in new york say broken windows needs fixing. Detractors say mostly poor or people of color are ticketed for quality of life crimes like riding a bike on the sidewalk, inking on the street, jumping a subway turnstile or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Broken windows policing is the topic. Several commentary pieces from individuals over the last week in light of the incidence of unrest in baltimore. Michael goodwins piece, he proves the need for broken windows policing. He writes that baltimore should be a wakeup call. Handcuffing the cops ultimately leads to more Violent Crime and not less and ands up with the National Guard in the streets like a war zone. He goes on to note that what america is witnessing is what happens every day in neighborhoods under police. Violence spirals out of control and doesnt stop until someone stops it. We want to hear from our viewers on this concept of broken windows policing. It is known for a time in baltimore as zerotolerance policing. The former governor and mayor former governor of maryland who used to be mayor of baltimore. Gabriel is up first in laurel maryland. Caller my idea is [indiscernible] when i get there, that is crazy. The attitude of whoever has the guns has the power is the boss is also increasing the problem. It does not change anything. It only creates enmity between the police force and the populace. The best thing to do is to understand the people. They are supposed to be like leaders. I dont know if the police force teaches how to be a team member and how to be a leader. You cannot get anything done [inaudible] host for those who think rocha and window policing is not effective, broken window policing is not effective. Caller i had an experience in 1988. I was only 20 years old. I was smoking a joint and this cop came and beat me up. Broke my jaw. I kept thinking, why are you beating me up . For smoking weed . I have stopped since then but they took me to jail and locked me up for five months. They were saying you will do 20 years for distribution. This officer told me i sold him drugs. Lying. They threatened me so much i had to plead guilty. I pled guilty to something i didnt even do. It had a negative impact on my life for the past 20 years. They had me plead guilty to distribution. I was so scared that they would the prosecutor told me if you fire us we go to court. The judge will throw the book at you. I think the corruption is not even about race. It is the attitude from the police. Once i have a gun and i have a badge i can do what the hell i want. Host comments on our Facebook Page as well if you want to follow the conversation. Facebook. Com cspan. Stephen writes that zerotolerance policing, broken windows policing helped clean up new york city times square. It was a combat zone until this was implemented. Democrats for liberty rights in places like new york city, it has led to stop and frisk which disproportionately targets minorities. President obama talked about trust in the Police Department in his appearance last night on the David Letterman show. Here is a bit. President obama for far too long, for decades, a situation where too many communities do not have a relationship of trust with the police. If you have a handful of police not doing the right thing that makes the job tougher for the others. It creates an environment in the community where they feel that rather than being protected and served, they are the targets of arbitrary arrests or stops. Our job has to be to rebuild trust. We put forward a Task Force Made of Police Officers, it also young activists protesting, they came up with terrific recommendations about collecting data on what happens when there is a shooting involving police. What are we doing in terms of things like body cameras . There are practical concrete things we can do to make the system work better. This is something i reminded people of the other day this is not just a policing problem. What you have are pockets of poverty and lack of opportunity lack of education, all across the country. Too often, we ignore those pockets until something happens. Then we act surprised. The tv cameras come in. We put the Police Officers in a tough spot where we say, just contain the problem. So if Young African american men are being shot, but it is not affecting us, we will paper that over. Host that was president obama on cbss late show, today Loretta Lynch is scheduled to go to baltimore. She will be meeting with city officials, members of congress and faith and community leaders. She will be joined by the head of the Civil Rights Division along with director of the office of policing services. He has been on this program talking about that Justice Department program. This morning for the next halfhour we are talking about this concept of broken windows policing. Jim says it is effective. Caller good morning from beautiful new castle, delaware. It works. Look at the murder rates in new york city. There were weeks where there was nobody killing anybody. Since the riots in baltimore we have had eight deaths and 15 shootings because people feel the cops are backing off. You cannot let people put graffiti up cannot let them litter or urinate on the side of the building. Things like that have to stop. It is the little crimes that turned into a crimes. When people feel like they can get away with these little injustices, they feel like they can get away with bigger crimes. Most of the problem if you ask the cops is because of the drug trade. It is your identity politics this summer and i think the cops should just stay on these arrowheads and tell them, you have to act right or you will get in trouble. Host the police chief in washington d. C. Had an interview with fred hiatt of the Washington Post and she talked about why she didnt think zerotolerance policing would work today. I want to redo what she said and get your thoughts. She said, what we forget his neighborhoods with the most crime are also the neighborhoods with the most victims and most witnesses. If you storm and with zero tolerance you turn all of the victims and witnesses against you. What you think about her thoughts . I think that people who do not trust the police probably have a reason not to trust the police. Lets play identity politics. You have the best people and the criminals and the people who are not criminals. If you have nothing to worry about in the record, why would you not cooperate. Most of these people in new york who they were arresting with zero tolerance were repeat offenders already. They dont what i go back to jail but havent learned that you have to act right if you are from new york or whatever. Host speaking of new york city. Tom rob leslie is a columnist for Staten Island live and he has a piece. Not the time to back away from broken windows. He writes in that peace that the effectiveness of the broken windows strategy is obvious to anyone who is live in this city for the last 40 years maybe others have to learn the hard way. I dont remember new york of the 1970s or 1980s. Maybe they need to see what happens when criminals feel bolder about breaking the law. Vincent in new york city, brooklyn, new york. Youre on the washington journal. Caller thank you for taking my call. I am a member of the coalition against broken windows. Mr. Braxton is the grandfather of the philosophy. Host the police chief, for those who do not know who he is. Caller commissioner bratton. He is the grandfather of that philosophy. In his mind, he justifies that position of oppression and victimization of the citizens. When he talks about crime reduction, he conveniently avoids fax that are critical to crime reduction. He is advocating for a policy that proves to the an attack on cultural norms and is a basis for the state Supreme Courts finding that it is unconstitutional. The unequal application for sun black and brown people and the working poor. It is not the responsibility of the Police Commissioner to make laws but only to enforce them. Some of the things that he incidentally leaves out about crime, and most the people who lived educated by the fact, the reduction of drug use and crack epidemic that happened during the late 70s and 80s and into the 90s is that the direct effect of crime reduction. The three decades affirm the parallel between drug use and crime. Any Law Enforcement officer worth their oath will confirm it takes a Community Working with the police to truly reduce crime. Host what is the coalition against broken windows . Caller it is a litany of community organizations, people educators, civic Organizations Community Board Members divergent groups helping to reduce violence. Somehow, all of those methodologies to reduce crime are being ignored and we are looking for the police to solve social problems. Police are not designed to solve social problems. The triggers that drive crime are no jobs, Mental Health issues homelessness those are the triggers that drive crime for the socalled quality of life that mr. Bratton and the mayor are advocating for. People from Staten Island and people in those areas, they do not have those challenges and cannot relate. They were to draw an opinion that is ludicrous. Host vincent in brooklyn, new york in this debate over broken windows policing has picked up in light of recent highprofile police runins. We want to hear from our viewers on this concept of broken windows policing. If youre interested in where the term comes from, the economist talks a bit on this in a piece they wrote on it earlier this year. It refers to an observation made in the early 80s by a criminologist and james wilson a social scientists that when a buildings windows are open and unrepaired the rest of the windows will soon broken as well. An unrepaired window is a symbol that no one cares so breaking or windows costs nothing. They found in environments where disorderly behavior goes unchecked, or prostitutes visibly ply their trade against passersby, more serious crime flourishes. The theory is supported by a number of randomized experiments. Researchers at the university in the netherlands found people were twice as likely to steal an envelope filled with money if it was sticking out of a mailbox covered in graffiti. What this means is when police keep streets order line orderly and punish small crimes, people will behave in orderly ways. Alice is up next in st. Petersburg, florida. On the line for those who think it is effective. Caller it is effective but at what cost . At the cost of civil rights of my fellow citizens. This sundays st. Petersburg tribune had an interview of the outgoing chief of police in tampa where they most recently exposed that eight out of 10 bicycle tickets are given to black people and that the majority of the tickets were written in black neighborhoods. If you look at the map, the wealthy neighborhoods that have one traffic citation am a that citation went to a black person. It is for civil rights. I am fed up with it. My parents dont feel it. The outgoing chief of police doesnt even feel it. She talks in her interview and it glared at me about cops having bad days. If they think they can come up with better ideas and change tactics it is a tactic to over police black people. They cannot breathe. If we keep just looking at black communities and thinking we have to fix it, look in the mirror white people. Look in the mirror america. Stop the war on poor people. Legalize marijuana, lift the economy, give us jobs. It is awful. If you are not into a good job right now you are a poor person. There is nothing in between. There is no letter to climb up. I have worked my entire life and i see this day in and day out. Host what do you do in st. Petersburg florida . Caller i am getting ready to go back to israel tomorrow because i cannot get health care. I am disabled. I cannot get obamacare because i do not make enough money. They did not expand medicaid in florida. I dont have young children. Even though i am disabled i cannot get to a doctor who will say you are disabled. I am leaving the country to get a colonoscopy because i have polyps. I thought i could get obamacare. I voted for him twice. I think health care is the number one issue. I think we need to indict the criminal justice system. Our leaders need to be taught. They dont care about thus. They think corporations are people. My fellow citizens have been suffering my entire life. When i think of the idea of that boy a young man, younger than my son, inc. Treated like that on the street and killed by the police in the van. I know what they did to him. White people in our society as a whole cannot look at this and think we need to fix ourselves and stop thinking about fixing the people and black communities it is a lie. Host we are talking about this concept of row can windows policing broken windows policing. What are your thoughts, if you think it is effective 202 7488001. And at 202 7488002 we would especially like to hear the thoughts of Law Enforcement personnel. For the next 20 minutes or so here on code the washington journal. Lydia has been waiting on that line. Good morning. I am actually one of those people who has been working on Police Accountability in texas and minnesota. I have lived here in minnesota since 1988. I grew up in the suburbs. Then i moved to the innercity. I live in code dallas texas and houston. What people do not get in the suburbs is what it is like to get live when the police are constantly harassing you. White people, have you ever been asked to show proof of purchase of a bicycle you are on . I bet you havent. This is one of the broken windows policies for black people. Here in minneapolis we have a local ordinance against lurking. 99 of the people arrested on this are black men. Lurking is a vague excuse to arrest somebody. I know of africanamericans who have been harassed because they are sitting on their own porch on a hot summer night. I myself have experienced this in small ways in houston and alice. Dallas. I was vaguely harassed for being on the street at 9 00 because the prop cops thought i might be a prostitute and i was coming home from my job with a buttondown shirt and loafers. I would say i am walking down the street by myself coming home from work that i was a woman alone on the street. This happen for years. When i was a young woman in my 20s. When i was married to a latino man we were regularly ask where are you going and what are you doing . Or i was asked if the guy was harassing me. People should also understand as a crime victim, ive been told when i was mugged and my arm was almost broken, well, what do you expect. Look at the neighborhood you live in. Nothing was done. People have to understand this constant lowlevel harassment, it does not help crime. What it does is alienate the community from Law Enforcement. This is part of why people do not want to cooperate. Host i want to get some Law Enforcement perspective on some of those comments from lydia. Ray is on the line for members of Law Enforcement and coclinton, pennsylvania. In clinton, pennsylvania. Caller if you take new york i never heard the term, when dinkins was in, crime was rampant. Later on, over the next seven or eight years when the other mayor took over, crime was reduced. You ask anybody in new york, he did an effective job. When you let the lowlevel crime go, it far out numbers murders arent robberies armed robberies and so forth. What else are you supposed to do . In my career at least a dozen times when i pulled lack people over for a Traffic Violation one of the first things that comes over is you are pulling me over because i am black. No i pulled you over because you ran the stop sign or you were speeding. I didnt know what you were colored. Or that is a white mans lot. I didnt know speeding was a white man law. This is the attitude in the black community today. That they want left alone. We can do these little oddball crimes like in ferguson. That is a daily occurrence. . Take something off the shelf and you push somebody around. That is not a crime to them. That is borrowing cigars. Host let me ask you about the issue of trust that some of our callers have brought up. That kathy in washington d. C. Alluded to and coher interview on the topic in her interview on the topic. To overly enforce some of these lowlevel crimes that alienate potential witnesses and victims that could talk to them about larger crimes. Caller from working with black Police Officers from these areas, like pittsburgh, i can tell you this. It is not mistrust and cothe police. In the police. When you have a victim, they will not come forward. They will end up dead if it is a major crime. The people who testified for the cop, if they were black, they will not release those names. Those thugs in that area want to go after the people who act like whitey. Thats what it is called. Those victims, who are not protected, will not come forward. Host how long did you serve . Caller 25 years. State police. Host state trooper in pennsylvania . Caller yes sir. Host manny is waiting in brownsville, texas. Your thoughts on this concept of broken windows policing. Caller i think it definitely applies. [inaudible] it definitely does apply if you allow people to commit these minor crimes, they say i was not punished for this minor crime so the Law Enforcement is not high so lets commit higher crimes. Host you are saying there is a feeling that if you do not do it makes police look weak . Caller not weak, but if you do a minor crime like public intoxication and you get away with it, you have a sense of i can come push more or get a bigger thrill out of it. When you do these crimes that are minor, you want to do a bigger crime. With the broken window policy, if the excise the punishment of this type of crimes that are minor to society, but it does help people see the Law Enforcement are there. It helps everybody especially in your community. There are no races when you are talking about your community. No black, no white, no mexican. Everybody wants to make their town safer. That puts the point if you make a small crime, you need to get punished as well for a small crime as a bigger crime. Just emphasizing that Law Enforcement is there, so you wont have this window of opportunity. Thinking that if i got away with this, i can get away with that. Host are you currently a member of the Police Department in brownsville or where . Caller i am working as a sheriff deputy. We cover a lot of ground. A lot of ground here in cameron county. I think it is very important for everybody to understand that in your community it is out there. It is part of an everyday life and every day struggle. A lot of people are talking about that or it that. As long as you do your job you should be good. Host that is manny in brownsville, texas on the line for Law Enforcement. We will revisit this topic at the end of the show. If you dont get a chance to get through now, we will talk about it again at about 9 30. I want to point out to eugene collins, a columnist for the Washington Post. One of the arguments is about impact. The advent of broken windows has coincided with a decline in dramatic crime. He says it is easy to show a correlation but impossible to prove causality. It is not as if Police Departments were ignoring innercity communities before the practice. In and Violent Crime has also fallen and comany communities that abandoned in many communities that abandoned zerotolerance policing or never applied it. John is up next on the line for those who think that broken windows policing is not effective. Caller respect gets respect. If you walk up to a car and tell a man to get out of their car please, i would like to talk you about a problem with your license, the officer will get respect. If you run up there and smash a door open and tell you to get the hell out of the car, what they fail to realize, whether you have a gun or not, i am not afraid of you. Respect gets respect. That is what Police Officers should understand. Host can an copal texas. On the line for those ken on the line in texas. Caller there is so much work being put in place in baltimore. The city council and the mayor is moving forward. They have a large majority of the black community the chief of police has been working hard. It is not their fault that the crime rate were a city of their size is four times normal. They have been trying their very best in the last election, 84 of the vote went toward obama. They are trying to implement a plan to create jobs in the community. They he was in a community with 21 unemployment. He was a victim of his environment and could not have done anything other than live daytoday and do the best you can. And that is what happens. Thank you very much. Host some impact from the arrest in baltimore from one of those potential president ial candidates, man expected to run Martin Omalley the former governor of maryland and mayor of baltimore. The story out yesterday notes that just weeks before the former Maryland Governor expects to enter the race and challenge Hillary Clinton, the baltimore turnaround has been marred they are placed new scrutiny on the zerotolerance policy from 1999 to 2006. It shows that murders declined overall but in that time a grand jury concluded that too many arrests have been made in black communities without merit. Community said they were wrongly arrested for minor offenses. These are the sources of concerns driving some of the anger in baltimore today. We want to hear from our viewers this morning. Mary is in the line for people who think it is effective. Caller i want to thank all of the callers. I guess they did not hear the news. A 25yearold policeman in new york had his head blown off by a black career criminal in new york and he died yesterday. I guess they can spit in his face after a bullet has gone through him. In mobile, we have an explosion of marijuana and the Emergency Rooms are filled with it. It is like the old angel dust and pcp. You do not know what they are going to do. In baltimore, the stimulus package from the stimulus they got 108 billion over the last five years. What happened to that money for the streets, cities and schools . You have weinstein come on. Her salary alone is more than the president of the United States. That doesnt include the benefits. We have teachers not teaching. Protected by unions. Corrupt politicians and most of the cities in trouble are run by 40yearold democratic administrations. They are liberal policies that do not work. I want to thank the callers for remembering the 25yearold policeman in new york. Because policeman dont care. Policeman are dirt. That is why they die on duty. Host a few tweets on this topic as we have been talking. Peter writes that the policy of broken windows policing is effective to a degree, the real issue is police are perceived as separate people, not of us. Jody writes that you cannot pick and choose what laws youre going to follow, but follow them you must, that is america. We want to update you on another few hits of news around the country today. John kerry has landed in somalia, the first u. S. Secretary of state to visit that country. He made the unannounced visit on tuesday. The state Department Said his visit was to reinforce the United States commitment to the ongoing transition to a peaceful democracy. The story from nbc news noting that somalia is home to the Al Qaeda Linked terror Group Alshabaab which carried out a terror attack on kenya last month which cost the lies of 150 people. Lives of 150 people. President obama will have a new joint chiefs of staff chairman. He is selecting an experienced field commander, the Washington Post noted. President obama expected to announce today that the commandant of the u. S. Marine corps is picked to replace army general Martin Dempsey who will step down this fall after four years on the job. He must be confirmed by the president. The story also noting that he will also nominate the air force general as the head of the u. S. Transportation command as vicechairman. Those nominations expected to come out of the white house today. We will revisit this topic encode the last half hour. Larry is in evergreen park, illinois. He does not think it is effective. Caller thank you for taking my call. I want to thank cspan for having this conversation. Iwatch cspan all the time and you have different subjects. I have a question i would love to ask. Alice and lydia, thank you. It is time people tell it like it is. The question i ask is why is it like things like inferior education and high unemployment and crime and drugs always seem to find themselves in black communities and poor communities more than anywhere else . It is almost as if certain people have been targeted by other people. Is there any money to be made from high crime . Is there any money to be made off of greed since america is a capitalistic country . If there is money to be made off of also improvement false imprisonment or keeping them in jail. If somebody has targeted this area, maybe i could be wrong but if you keep these people in a state of psychological fear which is what Police Actually do when they stock people like myself for no reason at all. They talk to you as if you committed a crime before you even know why they stopped you. The disrespectful way in which they talk to you, you know this will be a problem. It is almost as if certain people have been targeted. If it has been targeted, then the people on talk to top who claim they do not want to solve the problem are playing stupid. Somebody is making money off of the people who sell drugs. Black people are just paying the big cost. Host a few more tweets this morning. Jim writes in that human nature has and always will be to get away with anything we can that benefits ourselves. Enforcing laws is only a means of eliminating that. And Airborne Ranger writes best policing policy is to solve actual crimes totally and equally. David is in king george virginia. On the line for those who do not think it is an effective policy. Caller good morning. I grew up most of my life in baltimore city. I did not realize how bad it is until i moved to king george, virginia. In king george virginia if you get pulled over for a ticket you get your ticket and go about your business. In baltimore, not only are you pulled over, they violate constitutional rights. They get out the car and do an illegal search and seizure. Make use your down to your underwear in search of your clothes. Being humiliated. Then if they dont find anything they are pitch that you and do Something Like they did with freddie gray. Say he had a switchblade. Falsify evidence. If you are black and have a broken window you are listed as a criminal. But white folks appear where the hold back end of the vehicle is missing or they have would with a door should be, you dont get tickets for that. They dont pull you over for that. But if you are black when that happens then you are pulled over and searched and everything. The application of the law is not being put out nearly. Then you have a system where you are making money off of imprisoning people then you will constantly keep locking people up for small things to make money. Even when you put them in there and a white folk gets two years most likely the black person will get five to 10 and then the lives are destroyed. That is what i feel. It is just wrong. Host david formerly lived in baltimore. Some news about baltimore and the aftermath of that unrest from last week. A story in the Washington Post noted that of the 486 people arrested after freddie grays death. Officials trying to sort out those who looted and threw rocks. They were caught up in the chaos. It is proving to be a challenge for the legal system. The fallout of those 486 arrests. Harold is in brooklyn, new york on that line for Law Enforcement. Your thoughts on broken windows policing . Caller i retired nypd. I grew up in new york in the 1960s when heroine and unemployment was rampant. Black communities at the same problems they did today. I didnt loot, i didnt steal, i didnt drop. I got an education and i got a job. It is time for us as a community to be responsible about our actions. Every time i look at writing it is rioting, it is despicable. There are bad cops and they should be guilt with accordingly. Again, i grew up in a bad neighborhood, i did not make excuses i did not steal, i did not rob and i got an education and bedard myself bettered myself. I dont know baltimore but it couldnt be any worse than brooklyn in the 1960s. I saw people robbing and stealing and i made a conscious decision to get a job and go to jail not go to jail. Host are you a member of the nypd . Caller retired some 20 years. I got respect because i commanded respect. In these Commanding Officers, they get promoted on numbers. Summons, arrests. That is how they get promoted. I was never in bothering people about lighter stuff. Your tail light is out, do me a favor and get it fixed. Host how do you make that decision on whether to say have a good day or follow through on more aggressive policing under the broken windows philosophy . Caller aggressive policing is all about Commanding Officers becoming bosses or chiefs. Promoting themselves. That is why you have cops bothering people for nonsense. You pull somebody over, you have the discretion. As a Police Officer you have a discretion to issue an summons or official warning. You want good rapport with the neighborhood, hello mr. If you knew these people you would not have the issue. People are coming in and out. You dont have steady policeman anymore. I walked the foot post. Everybody knew me. It made life a lot easier. Host harold in brooklyn, new york. Our last caller in this first segment. We will revisit this topic at the end of the show if you want to call back. Is broken windows policing effective . Up next we will talk about the expanding 2016 president ial field with two political reporters as part of our roundtable. Later we will take a look at the 2016 budget blueprint that left the house last week and will be taken up in the senate this week. We will be right back. Remarkable partnerships. Iconic women. Their stories in first ladies, the book. It was one of the things that endeared her to the entire nation. 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Plus district maps, a foldout of capitol hill and a look at congressional committees, the president ial candidate state agencies and state governors. Order your copy today. It is 13. 95 plus shipping and handling. Washington journal continues. Host it is only tuesday but has already been a busy week when it comes to campaign 2016 and the road to the white house. Were joined by Shane Goldmacher and Linda Feldman who covers the white house. Of the three republican candidates who joined the race this week or will join when my cut of the makes his announcement, when my cut of the Mike Huckabee makes his announcement who will have the biggest impact . 8 they all bring something to the table. The battle with Hillary Clinton is joined in that fashion and she can strike at hillary in a way the other republican candidates cannot. Carson is the only other africanamerican and Mike Huckabee is an old face. The question is whether he can capture that evangelical vote and do really well. Host who of the three fiorina carsons and huckabee are the other candidates most afraid of . Caller i think there isnt a question that huckabee poses the biggest threat. He is the only of the three who has won states. He won and the south and iowa. He followed bill clinton into office. He can win the evangelical voters which are really important in iowa and South Carolina. Four people who are fresher faces going after the same voters, ted cruz and Mike Huckabee are very much a threat to take a wait the first early states take away the first early states. Host Mike Huckabee announcing today. We will show that announcement life on cspan at 11 00 a. M. He will make that announcement from hope, arkansas and rollout into a weeklong iowa and South Carolina trip. All of the candidates making their appearances in the early primary states. Talk about ben carson. Who does he take the most votes away from . Caller guest he is very popular with young voters. At cpac he was one of the more popular candidates. This is a big deal for the republicans, attracting younger voters. He is important for them. He is somebody who burst onto the scene two years ago at the Prayer Breakfast and really caught everybody by surprise when he went after obama sitting a few feet away from him. He showed a willingness to go after the president had on. Head on. Even though the president isnt on the ballot, his former secretary of state will be. He knows how to get attention. He is very articulate and revered as a worldrenowned neurosurgeon. All of these questions about whether his lack of political experience will hurt him, but i think, one question is whether people are looking for a fresh face. He is certainly one of them. Host those two announcements coming this week already. Mike huckabee expected to announce. You have been writing a lot about jed bush. One of the things you wrote about is he was out early and flex his financial muscles. He was trying to raise money to scare others out of the race. Has anybody been scared out of the race . Guest it doesnt look like it. A couple weeks ago there were 19 people giving speeches about running for president. He is raising a lot of money. He will top 100 million in his first few months, but more are getting in the race and more are considering it. One who is considering and is not scared by jed bush is the governor of ohio. If jed bush was scaring people, he would not be getting into the race or considering it. He knows how much bush money can scare you out of the president ial race because he was scared out of the race by george w but he is looking at running this year. Guest i would argue that mitt romney was scared out of the race by jed bush. Two establishment titans owing against each other and romney looked at the reality and decided he could not make it work. Host we are talking about the 20 sixteen rd to the white house. The lines are open 2016 road to the white house. Democrats call 202 7488000 republicans 202 7488001 and independents 202 7488002. Were the next 45 or 50 minutes to talk about this topic. As we said yesterday, ben carson made it official. He talked about his announcement sunday night but at his event in detroit he made his president ial campaign official. Here is a bit of ben carsons speech from the event. [video clip] that is what we have to start doing. Opening our mouths for the values and principles of america. [applause] i have to tell you something. I am not politically correct. [cheers] [applause] i am probably never going to be politically correct, because i am not a politician. I dont want to be a politician. Politicians do what is politically expedient. I want to do what is right. Host i am not a politician. Will we be hearing this refrain a lot . Guest absolutely. There are so many real politicians running including Hillary Clinton who is as political as they get. They are all political. All of these nonpoliticians who run for president are instantly politicians. You have to look at it from a metaperspective. Here is ben carsons saying i am not politically correct. That is a political message. He is saying i will hear things say things you do not normally hear from someone like me. The reality is, it is extremely difficult for them to win. Carly fiorina is another nonpolitician in the race. She was working on the Mccain Campaign as a surrogate spokeswoman and said something she shouldnt, she would veer off message and was taken off tv. It is great to be a nonpolitician, the public likes that, but the reality is that they make mistakes. If you have never run for anything, she actually ran for senate in california and does have that experience. But has never held elective office. It is extremely difficult to pull that off. The last time we elected a nonpolitician was dwight allen dwight eisenhower. He was the supreme allied commander for world war ii. That gives him a pass. Host the Washington Post, writes enter the nonpoliticians. A grand tradition of thinking they can do politics better. It is easy to disparage public servants, much harder to reshape the forces pushing them away from solutions and harder still to fashion compromise without abandoning principle. Ms. Furia and mr. Carsons are politicians on the national stage. Shane, your thoughts on the unpolitician versus the politicians already in republican primaries. Some members of the United States senate and former governors as well. Guest one of the questions you asked earlier is who takes votes from whom . It is really interesting that ben carson and Carly Fiorina got into the race on the same day. There was kind of an gentlemans agreement not to step on each others announcements. They were spaced out one week apart between rand paul and marco rubio these two got in on the same day. One of the reasons is they are competing with each other. Everybody else in this field has held elected office. If they are not part of washington they are part of the establishment in some fashion. Even if your ted cruz and are antiestablishment or rand paul wanting to defeat the washington machine, you are part of it. These to him are competing for that vote. There is a long tradition of people getting into races and a longer tradition of them losing. Host Shane Goldmacher of the washington caller thanks for taking my call. Caller i think Campaign Finances distorted the politics to where unless you are a corporation youre not going to get any representation. Bernie sanders is probably the only credible candidate, and i dont think he is going to get elected because of money. If they didnt have money pushing against it, they could get Immigration Reform and make it work. You can make it if l. A. To hire an undocumented worker. You can send the criminals back to mexico and legalize the people that are here and paying taxes. It you wouldnt have the problems in the hospitals that youve got by the border states. Its a mess down there. Host there are several topics. Start with Bernie Sanders. Guest his entry into the race makes the democratic nomination battle more interesting. Hillary clinton is way ahead and the chances are high she gets the nomination. His voice will be elevated in the debate about the Democratic Party. It the progressive wing of the party was wanting Elizabeth Warren to get in. And away, he is a surrogate for Elizabeth Warren. He has been an independent for decade and has succeeded politically in that way. He is a very rare bird in washington. He and hillary differ on health care, he once singlepayer. She wants to make obamacare better. On trade, huge split in the party. Hillary clinton as secretary of state was instrumental in the asiapacific trade deal that the president wants and some democrats are against it. The unions dont like it and Bernie Sanders is dead set against it. I also want to respond to the collar on the question of money. Its true that he is not going to raise the money hillary will, i dont think that ceiling reason he cant get the nomination. The reality is that when of the party is not big enough. Host the wall street journal and pollsters all of the country are making the general election comparison between Hillary Clinton and potential republican candidates. Its not like they are matching Bernie Sanders up with any of these potential republicans. This is the latest poll. Hillary clinton against jeb bush, she leads him 4943. The closest is rand paul. Fossum is pulling numbers . Pulling numbers . Guest it doesnt mean she is going to stay there. An interesting argument rand paul makes is he says he is the guy that gets closest to her. He is trying to run as mr. Electable. Its one of those interesting dynamics. He has been talking about expanding the Republican Party reaching out to young people minorities. In that poll, some of the other figures were about who could you potentially support. There is a lot of potential for marco rubio. Very few say that about Chris Christie and jeb bush. Marco rubio is second place. Look down the road to the next announcement. Host where is Mitch Daniels . Who is next . Guest thats a good question. I dont know. Do we have any actual dates . Mitch daniels is not going to run it. I think he is the president of purdue university. Guest they have not picked dates. Host guest i would not say this is a joke, these people are all running. They are raising as much money as they can before they officially announce and trigger legal requirements. They are effectively candidates. Host do you think Chris Christie is going to be a candidate . Guest i think it was really bad for him. I dont know. These indictments this week, his people are spinning furiously that this was good news for him. It doesnt look like he was any in any legal jeopardy, but when your legal aides are indicted, the story has long legs. I dont see how he can mount anything close to a successful campaign. If he thinks otherwise. Guest they are talking about decamping to New Hampshire and do town halls. Chris christie has got a similar name. Tell the truth town halls, this is what he is trying to do in New Hampshire. He is from the northeast. He has human skills. He can deal with people. That everybody has that. Host we have lots of talk about this morning. Michael is up next on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller host lets go to sand in kentucky. Caller good morning. I would like to hear the panel put their thoughts forward as far as why is there a difference in the media scrutiny requiring democratic versus republican candidates . Hillary clinton was secretary of state and all of these deals done, bill clintons speeches. I dont see them going after Hillary Clinton much like they will go after governor christie from new jersey. Why is that . Why is there such a difference in how the media will go after the facts and the truth about these candidates . Bernie sanders is a european socialist and nobody is talking about that. They dont really delve into what he supports and what he advocates. Why is that . Guest i was going to say on the hillary discussion, she had a brutal month of media press. This book is coming out. It hits shelves today. Nbc news followed bill clinton to africa this week and spoke with him about the fundraising and the speeches. They got him to say he has to pay the bills. Host usa today, the lead editorial. Guest it is true that there is more action on the republican side, so there is more coverage of their field. There is nobody running for president getting more scrutiny right now than Hillary Clinton. Guest i agree. When you look at the headlines its been the clintons on defense. Host its not where they expect to start in may of the year before the election. Erica is an michigan. Caller good morning. I have a comment about ben carson. The reason i would support him is the fact that him being an outsider and something that the president of United States set about how we deal with cuba. Weve been doing the same thing for 50 years and it doesnt work. Lets make a change. We have had politicians running this country for the past 50 some years. The debt is increased. Lets make a change. Lets put a nonpolitician in who is going to fix the problem and be done with it. Host what are your thoughts on Carly Fiorina . Caller i can see them teaming up. If she can make it to michigan i would support her. Thats the way i would look at it. We are getting sick of these same old same old and nothing changes. I have seen detroit deteriorate to nothing and now all the rich people are coming in to build up the inner part of the city, but the average person cant get a job. Its being outsourced out of michigan. Host on the call for nonpoliticians to unite. Guest this is a common refrain in every cycle. People have this negative reaction to professional politicians. The reality is you are better at something when you have experience doing it. The reality is to be elected president , you have to be a politician. Ben carson is now a politician. He does not have the experience fielding questions and being caught off guard on things and the range of issues that you have to address. Its a real crucible. Its no bigger crucible than running for president. It sounds good to say we when outsider, the reality is its nearly impossible. Host here is Carly Fiorinas announcement from yesterday. Our founders never intended for us to have a professional Political Class. They believe that citizens and leaders needed to step forward. We know the only way to reimagine our government is to reimagine who is leading it. Im Carly Fiorina and i am running for president. If youre tired of the soundbites, the vitriol, the ego, the corruption, if you believe that its time to declare the end of identity politics and you believe its time to declare the end of lowered expectations, if you believe its time for citizens to stand up to the Political Class and say enough, then join us. Its time for us to empower our citizens and give them a voice in government and come together to fix what has been broken about our politics and our government for too long. We can do this. Together. Host your thoughts . Guest there is no question that she is bringing something to the field, her gender, business experience in she was the first woman to run a fortune 20 custom camping. It did not and will. She is a voice. One of the challenges is going to be how to manage this field when it comes to the debates. They are low in polling. How my other people meet that threshold . That is a tough thing for the republicans to have to say. You are talking about 16 people on that stage. Host an africanamerican in the field, a female and two hispanics. Are you surprised the diversity of the republican field . Guest the party is not all white men, there is diversity in the party. Not as much as the Democratic Party, but its important to have this diversity in the field. You can also add bobby jindal to the mix. I dont know when he is going to get in, but he is indianamerican. Another point, i think in some circumstances, people like that run knowing in their heart of hearts that they are not going to win, but it positions them to be selected for the ticket and raises their national profile. It raises their speaking fees and gives them new life. They are retired from their original careers. Host carol, good morning. Caller good morning. Regarding Bernie Sanders i am 82. I left wisconsin 40 years ago. I went from the frying pan into the fire because i moved to florida. They have a rotten governor, too. For the first time i contributed to the campaign it, Bernie Sanders. I do not care what you call him but he offers hope to people below the poverty line. He sees what needs to be done getting rid of Citizens United for one. Money has to be taken out of politics. He is running on Campaign Money he gets from people like me. I wish i had more to give. I think he can straighten out our country. Thank you. Host do you think he can win . Could he defeat Hillary Clinton . Guest if enough of the people that have been living in poverty cant get jobs get out and vote and contribute something to him yes, i think he can win. He is a politician it, but he sees what needs to be done for this country. Guest there is an interesting tagline at the bottom of his website. He wants to tell people give me money and i will talk about your issues. I will talk about income inequality. They are courting the wealthiest class to run for president. His challenge, are there enough of them . Its not the base of the Democratic Party. That is what he brings to the debate. The role of money in politics is growing cycle over cycle. With Citizens United, its not necessarily written large all the money, its the super pacs that you are not directly soliciting. Can you find a billionaire who will underwrite your campaign. Host Bernie Sanders is willing to take questions from the media. After his announcement, he has taken more press questions than Hillary Clinton. Can you talk about the relationship of Bernie Sanders with the press . Guest the press loves Bernie Sanders. Not because of his positions but because he is willing to engage. Hillary clinton has felt that the presses out to get her. She is leery of the press. She wants to do a reset of her relationship with the press. Host has that happened . Guest hard to say. Guest a reset comes from the top. That is Hillary Clinton, does she want that . Its not clear. Most of the questions she has taken were shouted at her. The number of questions you are taking. Then carson is doing interviews. Bernie sanders cant get off the phone. Hillary clinton wont take any questions at all. Jeb bush has been fairly available. Scott walker less so. Guest where they are placing in the polls, there isnt inverse proportion. I think rubio is fairly accessible. He is doing well in the polls. Host lets go to laura in pennsylvania. Caller good morning. I want to say Rush Limbaugh made a very good point about the first black president. I think republicans need to make a big deal about being the first female or the first hispanic which is the largest minority out there. I think marco rubio could go bilingual. He could say all the conservative things that businesses want to hear. I wanted to bring up Rush Limbaugh talks about climate change. He is a denier. The Biggest Issue according to barack obama is climate change. Can we not have a debate on a big College Campus about our humans responsible . Neil Degrasse Tyson has evidence that the United States percent is responsible for 17 and china is responsible for more. Why do we have china making changes . We need a debate. Host i will let you take the first part of her question about marco rubio and republicans appealing to hispanic voters. Guest i think its going to be a big part of the campaign. There is a subterranean fight between democratic groups that are trying to organize the latino the vote. There is an issue funded by the koch brothers. They are kind to organize them and turn them on to conservative principles. Hillary clinton is headed out to nevada. She is talking about the pathway to citizenship. The Democratic Party has lived moved to the left. Drivers licenses could corrupt. She is going to come out early and embrace a potential pathway for citizenship. This is a dividing line. This helps them win their support. Guest lets talk issues. Climate change and the obama administrations actions on the issue. Guest i think this will be a big issue in the democratic debates. Youve got Bernie Sanders who says its one of the top three issues. Hillary has been vague on it. She has not stated her position on the keystone pipeline. She could be vulnerable on the left. Keystone is not the Biggest Issue out there regarding climate change. You get the president with his epa regulations on a Greenhouse Gases as part of his legacy and his policy on the environment. Host in terms of top issues, does that make it into the top tier . Guest i think its more pocket bush pocket book issues. The republican primary, im not sure its the Biggest Issue. It could be very big in the general. Guest host i dont know very many people who are stressed out about climate change. David is up next in ohio. Good morning. Caller good morning to everyone. I want to comment on lindas remark that Bernie Sanders would bring a debate for the soul of the Democratic Party. Who of the republicans is likely to find that soul of the Republican Party . Either one if you would respond. Guest what is so great about this huge republican field is youve got some diversity of views and you have a debate for the soul. Youve got the establishment wing with people like john kasich and scott walker and jeb bush. Youve got the people who are social conservatives, youve got to pertain ians like rand paul. Libertarians like rand paul. Immigration is a big internal debate with the republicans. Education, if john kasich gets in, that helps jeb bush. They both favor common core standards. Jeb bush is dangling out there alone on this. That gives him cover and these are two serious governors of extremely important battleground states. If one of them can catch fire, that would sail out about the future of the party. Guest i think there are two candidates in this race who are looking to make a bet that the Republican Party is fundamentally change in recent years. One is ted cruz who believes the party has moved to the right. He is going to embrace the tea party type republicans. They quote ronald reagan. This is his bet. He thinks the soul the party has moved his direction. The other is rand paul. He thinks the party has moved on Foreign Policy and they are less interventionist. Rand paul is going to be alone on Foreign Policy. He is alone out there on stage. Host lets go to walter in cincinnati on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. My question is could you tell me what state stands behind carly and ben . These people bring a lot of baggage to the political arena. Carly has been fired from her job being penn has no experience. You have people like Chris Christie who is about to get indicted possibly an answer questions he is been avoiding for years. The credibility doesnt make any sense. Host what states could they pick up . Caller what states do they represent . Guest i do we look at it in terms of what state they would represent. Its what voters do they represent. In such a huge field, the republicans will try to pick up different elements of the electorate. Who is a Carly Fiorina voter . It might be a republican woman. Her tendency is not just about being a woman. With ben carson it, hes got young support. Hes got people who like his conservative message for low income people to not get trapped on public assistance. I look at it in terms of voters and not states. Guest ben carson is a famed neurosurgeon. He was separating conjoined twins. He is a bestselling author and a hero. He lived in baltimore for a long time and made a huge impact. Now he lives in south florida. He does not have a home base. Facebook really some data about the speeches. The most interactions about ben carson were in southern states. Thats not his base as a republican candidate, but they know him and he has the most to lose. They dont see him as a republican politician. Host this goes back to talking about candidates taking questions or not taking questions from the media. If the press wasnt working so hard to define the election cycle their way, candidates would be more open to taking questions. You can follow the conversation. We will look for some of your tweets. Tony is in rhode island. Good morning. Caller good morning. I just turned 81. I am disgusted with this country. The rich people are running the country. Half your politicians tie in. It they do it they want to do. When i was young a woman would be great as a politician. Even they wind up going with democrats or republicans. I am almost at the point right dont want to go vote no more. Host is anybody right now that you do trust . Guest the only one i would vote for is that gentleman from New Hampshire. Host Bernie Sanders . Caller he is the only one down to earth. They wont run the country. Congress still runs the country and they dont give a damn. Host Bernie Sanders was on one of the sunday shows this week. He responded to a question that he got about whether it is possible for a socialist to be elected president of the United States. If we know that in countries like scandinavia like denmark sweden, they are very democratic countries and the voter turnout is higher. Health care is a right of all people, colleges free, Retirement Benefits are stronger. By large, Government Works for ordinary people and the middle class rather than in our country, for the billionaires. I can hear the republican attack ads right now. He wants america to look more like scandinavia. Whats wrong with that . Whats wrong with a stronger middle class . Whats wrong with a higher minimum wage and environment . We do a lot in a country that is good, but we can learn from other countries. Host in your piece about Bernie Sanders, you wrote that he fills the void left by elizabeth worn. How well does he fill that void . Guest they would love for her to get in. They realize thats not going to happen. I think bernie will get a lot of her support. You will see a lot of protest vote against Hillary Clinton and people voting for Bernie Sanders. There are other democrats the will probably get in the late race. The thing about Bernie Sanders is he will talk a lot about the billionaire class. Americans are funny about wealth. They dont like this idea of candidates appearing to be bought and paid for by billionaires but if you turn this into a class warfare festival that can turn people off in some ways. Everybody wants to do well and get ahead. Ultimately, it might backfire if it becomes too much a part of the race. Host lets go to houston. Good morning. Caller good morning. Good morning. America needs overhaul and i think Bernie Sanders is it. He talks about Social Security and making sure that america pays back into it. He talks about the patriot act. He talked about the racism thats going on. Obama is not handling it correctly. He has talked about the militaryindustrial contest complex. Eisenhower said it would be the root of all evil for america. He talked about the prison industrial complex, we need to talk about that. Guest he brings up a lot of issues. Host how do you think racial issues might impact the conversation on the republican and democratic primary campaigns . Guest Bernie Sanders is winning the cspan callers this morning. We had the first africanamerican president , it can play a big role. They can play role if you have marco rubio or ted cruz. Hillary clinton, one of the big debates was if she should run as a woman. The answer ultimately was no. And now the answer is definitely yes. Neither ted cruz nor marco rubio are running as the first latino candidate. That can become an increasing part of their campaign. Guest another key element in this is the personal narrative of the candidates. You have somebody like cruise or rubio who are the children of cubans immigrants. Rubio speaks warmly about the struggles that their parents went through. People love that. Americans are funny about who they elect. Now we have another bush, another dynasty. This is where hillary struggles. We think we know her story. She is old news. She wants to refresh what people think and know about her. 70 who is new to the scene, i think they will get a lot of attention. The second piece of that i would raise is the character. People go in there got, do i trust this person . That is a real challenge for people, especially if they have been around for a while. Host jerry is on airline for democrats. Caller good morning. I will make this fast. I have been anticipating Bernie Sanders for a long time. I am going to Campaign Like hell to make you president. I want to make a couple of quick points. Bernie sanders has made it clear he is going to play to win. Who is going to waste their time just to not win it . Guest the thing that strikes me is his campaign is like the ron paul campaign. A politician at the tail end of their career. He would be the oldest president in american history. He may not be solely running to make a point. He wants to move the needle in his direction. Ron paul wanted to move the needle in his direction. Rons son is running. He is running a different type of campaign. Is there going to be an aheir to Bernie Sanders. Bernie sanders and others, before we give hillary keys to the kingdom, for eight years or four years lets have a debate with those policies should be. Host what is Hillary Clinton saying about Bernie Sanders question . Guest absolutely nothing. She has the advantage of not talking about the people running against her. She is not talking about Martin Omalley. She is talking about Hillary Clinton and occasionally those republicans. Host connecticut is up next. Good morning. Caller i think this country needs a leader. I think ben carson is a leader. Now we have a guy who is a follower all of his lysed. He is a socialist president. That is where we stand. We need a guy who is not a politician. Politicians only worry about getting the money for the campaign and then who is going to vote for them. I think ben carson would be ideal for this country. Host that is richard in a bethlehem. Guest i do want to make a point about money in politics. Money isnt everything. You can raise all the money in the world and if people arent excited about you and dont want to vote for you, it goes nowhere. We have phil graham who ran for president in the 80s. He raised a town of money and it went nowhere. I think what we will find with unprecedented amounts of money sloshing around, what is enough and then at a certain point what is throwing good money after bad . Host is there something at the end of that spectrum . The money showed up after the cut fire . Guest john mccain. He would say what he thought and the press he was very friendly to the press. People like that. He was a truth teller. It feels like they are being Truth Tellers and people love that. You hear and see someone that is appealing to you. Guest Rick Santorum won the iowa caucus and then got a lot of money. And those later states, mitt romney was crushing Rick Santorum with television ads. Host david has been waiting on our line for independent voters. Caller good morning. I have a couple of comments. I think the democratic president ial field, with Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton they need more potential candidates and the republicans will have 14. I think that works against them. It worked against them in 2012 because there seems to be more ideological divisions. The tea party segment, when mitt romney received the nomination, there were a lot of the far right republicans who decided not to go to the polls and vote. On the democratic side, you hear the talk about the coronation of Hillary Clinton. There does need to be if elizabeth warned would get into the race. She should push Hillary Clinton to take a stand on more things. Host is your mind open about 70 from either party . Caller absolutely. I used to be a republican. I was a republican up until 2012. I switched Party Affiliations because i saw the Republican Party turning it too far to the right. Im looking for somebody that is moderate and has good ideas. Several colors have mentioned the career politicians, i wish more people would Pay Attention to the midterm elections. The republicans are trying to attract more women and young voters. When you look at the legislation in congress and the different republicans, they say they want to do this but the legislation they pass is contradictory to what they are saying. Host i want to let linda talk about the first part. He doesnt want a freeforall or a coronation. Guest last time, the primary process turned into a circular firing squad. You had mitt romney as the only seriously electable republican in that field. You had big money coming in. You had Newt Gingrich is super pac doing hit jobs on mitt romney. They were doing Barack Obamas job for him. I think the republican field is stronger than it was four years ago. There is no clear frontrunner. Its not clear who i would say is destined to get the nomination. When they are on the debate stage, are they firing at each other or are they generating ads that are devastating and helpful to Hillary Clinton, or are they looking outward to hillary and just bashing on her. Guest it will be hard for republicans to differentiate themselves by attacking Hillary Clinton. There is no question that at the end of the day, at some point they have to train their guns and their research and attacks on one another. It doesnt have to be ugly. There can be a benefit for them. They can drive the national conversation. Only Bernie Sanders is nipping at her ankle. You could have a year before she breaks through in the news stories. Host well done. You can check out his work and Linda Feldman she writes for the Christian Science monitor. We thank you both for joining us. We will take a look at the republican budget that the house passed. We are joined by robert bixby. We will be right back. While while while their stories in first ladies the book. She did save a portrait of washington. That endeared her to the nation. People wanted to know who francis was seeing. Howd do you do that . She did it. She exerted in normas influence because she would move a mountain to make sure her husband was protected. First ladies is now a book. We look at the personal life of every first lady in american history. Learn about their lives, ambitions, families, and partnerships with their president ial husbands. Fascinating stories about lively women. They often changed history. First ladies is an inspiring read, available as a hardcover or ebook. The new congressional directory is a handy guide to the congress with color photos of every senator and house member, plus bio and contact information. There are district maps and a map of capitol hill. Federal agencies, state governors, or your copy today. It is 13 90 five cents plus shipping and handling through the cspan store. Washington journal continues. Host he joins us to analyze the budget resolution. The senate is expected to take a vote and take that up today. If youre not familiar with guest we are a Nonpartisan Organization that focuses on the federal budget. We were founded by worn redmon and paul saugus. Paul satsongas. Host is balancing the budget something you can get behind . Guest i think the goal is a good one. I think the next 10 years is a reasonable goal. I think the path they have laid out is not realistic. I think the goal is good. What happens now is if the implementation can take place. Host explain how republicans look to achieve that balance . Guest its all in spending cuts. There are some very deep spending cuts. Some of them are not going to happen. The biggest one is a repeal of the Affordable Care act. Obviously, he would veto that. That is probably not going to happen. Some is savings Senate Domestic appropriations. That is steeper than is likely to pass. There are some other cuts and other entitlement programs. They are very deep. What the budget does show is it saves 5 trillion over 10 years. That is what you need to get back to balance. It does show how difficult it would be to get that level of savings. Host it sticks to the 1 trillion sequestration budget in 2016. It boosts the Defense Budget by adding money through the overseas Contingency Operation fund. This was passed by the house last week. Its going to be taken up by the senate this week. Is this budget resolution likely to get past . It doesnt have the force of law. Explain why this is important. Guest that is an important point that you make. Its the first step in the process and the easiest one. It does not require the president s signature and it does not require congress to set how they achieve the goal. Its a broad framework. Congress then takes the framework and tries to pass Appropriations Bills during the course of the year that keeps the governmentfunded. This sets out what the spending totals should be for the appropriations. The budget resolution is important because it sets points of order. It sets the numbers by which points of order can be triggered. It can be subject to a point of order. There are certain procedural goals and Enforcement Mechanisms as well. Host it will influence the appropriations process for the yes to the air. Rest of the year. Guest it contains reconciliation. That gives a bill fasttrack. In the senate, if you have a record reconciliation bill, it is not subject to filibuster. It applies to mandatory spending and revenues. There is a provision in the budget that would allow it to be used for increasing the deficit. Reconciliation bills are a favorite thing they get fast tracked. Congress has said this process should be used only for repeal of the afford care act. Thats disappointing. They would need reconciliation to pass some of the other issues and cuts they would like to do. Using it for repeal of the aca is it going to happen anyway. It gives away an important enforcement tool. There are a couple of things about the budget resolution to keep in mind. I would call them gimmicks. You mentioned it before, the oc oh. What they wanted to do was keep the defense cap and exceeded. They can do that by putting money in this Contingency Operation account, which is not subject to the cap. It supposed to be use for war spending, but they have used it for basic defense spending. Its a gimmick. The other thing is the budget resolutions assumes that the government will collect revenues this congress does not want the government to collect. There is a gap there. Host we are talking about the republican budget. It was a big topic on capitol hill. Our guest is with the concorde coalition. You can join in the conversation if you have a conversation or comment about the budget resolution. Sac is calling in from texas. Good morning. Caller i was going to ask when things are going under international and domestic spending what can we grow by that definition . Its easier to say you can have competitive effort. Whatever it comes to the domestic budget we can do this but we have to get back on this. We can do it cheaper by doing things this way. Whenever we try to cut the budget, its not doing it differently and getting the same results. Its always we have to cut something. Why is it always the we have to cut Something Else instead of growing the ceiling. Host is that your concern with just the republican budget . Caller its both. As an independent, i watched both over the years. Its in both budgets. Its the same way with every budget. Host thanks for the question. Guest there are a couple of good points there. Government doesnt look enough at doing things better. They tend to look at budget totals and not review programs and do whats called oversight. One of the things we have advocated over the years is to cf you could appropriate the money and see if the programs are working. One way to do things and save money is to do things better or more cheaply as you point out. The other point i would say is its important to try to find arguments that youre going to spend more in one area and you want to find cuts in another area or raise revenue. If part of that can be done through a more Efficient Administration of a program thats fine. I think you can do both. I think you can blend both. Host how does your coalition feel about investment that may not have specific offsets . Are you in favor of always finding them . Guest i think there is a distinction to be made between money that is consumption and money that is investment. The federal budget does not have a specifically designated investment budget. Maybe that is something to look into. I think within a balance, you dont need to have a balanced budget every year. You dont want one and a time of recession. There are times when its appropriate to have a deficit. Host should it take a decade to get back to a balanced budget . Guest its going to take some time. That is have the whole is. You would not want to do it that quickly. The goal of getting back in 10 years, there is a dynamic and play a lot of people dont focus on. The Appropriations Bills are determined one year at a time. Those not the problem. Most of the budget is mandatory spending, Social Security, medicare medicaid, interest on the debt. The major entitlement programs grow every year because the population gets older and there are more beneficiaries. Health care is an expensive thing to consume. If you look at the dynamics in the budget, that is what is growing. Even defense shrinks as a percentage of the economy. Budgetary challenges are the growth of the entitlement programs and the ones having to do with health care and retirement. When you talk about getting back to a balanced budget, it becomes more difficult. Youre always bumping up against that headwind. Its not a simple matter of looking at the Appropriations Bills of year insane, we can get back to a balanced budget getting tough if we ignore the entitlement programs and at interest on the debt. Host do you think congress will adjust that this time around . Guest i think the next opportunity for that is probably going to do with the first budget of the next president did that is why they are spending a lot of time in iowa and New Hampshire with my friends to campaign that the next president ial candidate will talk about this issue as well. We are doing a project called first budget for that very purpose. For the upcoming year, i think theyre probably going to focus on the Appropriations Bills. I think it will be difficult to pass those. If they pass them at the level that the republicans have recommended, the president has said he will veto them. For those who enjoy government shutdowns, it could be Something Like that will happen again this year. That might force a negotiation of some sort. Host daniel is waiting in hastings, michigan on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller ive have a question on the budget submitted by republicans. It calls for the elimination of obamacare. I was wondering why they are including the savings from it in the budget . I will take my question off the air. Host why they are including the savings. Guest they are including the savings from repealing obamacare in the budget and the five children dollars with the savings includes that because 5 trillion with the savings includes that because thats what they want to do and thats the plan. Host does that factor in the cost of a replacement plan . Guest no. It assumes that the gross spending and obamacare would be repealed which is the Exchange Subsidies and the Medicaid Expansion primarily. Like i said before, one of the curiosities of this budget is that it assumes that the revenue increases of obamacare would remain even though it says they will repeal them. Host let us go to dan and Saint Petersburg in st. Petersburg, florida. Good morning. Caller as far as finance reform, it seems that a simple solution would be to make all contributions regardless of size anonymous. That would take away all the questions about propriety and who owes what to whom. I dont understand why people are talking about that. Have a give all politicians polygraph exams and that would take the problem of whether they are telling the truth or not. Most federal employees on the lowest scale have to take a lie detector test, but why shouldnt people elected office do so also . Host talking about Campaign Finance reform, but not really the topic we are discussing. If the system went to publicly funded campaigns, any idea how much that would cost and how much that would impact the budget . Guest i have no idea. [laughter] i would hope that if we went to Public Financing that it would not cost as much and that we wouldnt use taxpayer money to the extent that you get private donations because that is quite expensive indeed. I have no recommendations in that regard. Host robert bixby is the executive director of the concorde coalition. He is with us for the five minutes or so. If you want to talk about this budget voted on the house late last week and taken up on the senate today, our phone lines are open. You can ask your questions or comments. Phone numbers are on the screen. One issue i want to bring up is how the budget relates to that debt limit conversation and the ongoing concerns about surpassing the debt limit. Guest it leaves that on a dressed. We will have to confront the debt limit again in the fall like in september or october. Technically speaking, we are at the debt limit right now. The Treasury Department is doing the extraordinary measures as they call it to keep us under the debt limit, but that will run out after a wild. A wild. We are going to have to deal with the debt limit. That will be part of the deal at the end of the year. I suspect that because the appropriations level are so different than the president would want and the democrats would seek to approve i think that theres probably going to be some sort of negotiation at the end of the year that would involve somewhat higher spending, a little bit of caps made up for cuts in mandatory spending or tax loophole closures. I imagine that deal would include the raising the debt limit because there seems to be consensus on capitol hill that the debt limit has become something of an embarrassment in the sense that it really is not an effective way of controlling debt. It doesnt control debt. It does more harm than it does good. I think it confuses the public and i think we need a better mechanism. I think we need a better debt limit them one we have now. Host kerry is waiting on the line for democrats. Caller good morning. One of the things about the budget does everyone expects the money to be spent in the same year. I suggest that they do the Capital Spending and continuing programs and then do the new programs. The Capital Spending takes five or six years to complete, but the new programs i agree with our guest that we should do our view on those. These programs have to be justified and see if they are replacing the program that is already in existence or if it is really new. Host he is in favor of the approach you recommend. Guest i think there should be some more oversight. Because there is a difference between just consumption spending and Capital Expenditures that would be more of an investment and perhaps there should be a way of reflecting that in the budget. Host how often does congress kill a program that is not working well . Guest very rarely. There is a proliferation. The Government Accountability office does a great job every year of putting out a report that talks about duplicate of programs it will get programs and very rarely is any action taken on them. And as part of the political process. People like to create programs and do not like to defund programs once they are created. So you get a proliferation of programs. We should not leave people with the impression that that is the major problem in the budget. It is a problem that needs to be addressed, but you talk about unsustainable budget, which is basically what we have now. It is driven by Health Care Costs and the aging of the population. Host tennessee is up next. Dave on the line for democrats. David, are you with us . He might have stepped away. We will go to cairo and boca raton, florida. Good morning. Caller yes. Host you have to turn down your tv before you ask your question on our we will not be able to hear you. Caller the affordability Health Care Act is 1. 27 trillion by 2025. Can we actually afford this . Is there anybody who is running who agrees with the flat tax or the fair tax . Those are my two questions. Thank you for taking my call. Ive never called before. Host you did a great job in boca raton. Guest the Affordable Care act some refer to it as obamacare. The figure that you cited is correct. That is for the spending for the Exchange Subsidies. Theres a lot more to the affair will care Affordable Care act. Theres mores ending for Medicaid Expansion, but theres also in the Affordable Care act cuts to medicare and tax increases. So when you put them all together, it was designed to be deficit neutral. It is higher spending and higher taxes, but it was intended to be deficit neutral. A repeal would have to be scored somehow. A full repeal would have to take out the revenue increases as well as the spending cuts spending increases. You may well come out with a deficit neutral result even if he repealed it. Host let us go to john in cleveland, ohio. John, you are up next. Caller twopart question what happened to last years budget by ryan . Ryan and the Democrat Center senator what happened . There is a double count of medicare. They only use the revenue neutral. Once you budget like colin powell said, the Supreme Court is going to decide on the obamacare. They call it dynamic scoring. I would call it biggest lie in the world. It is the best fiction in the world. What do you think . What he think of the account beyond what they asked for . They get away with this thing how can they get away with this thing . The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. Host lots of questions. Start to explain what the ryanmurphy deal was that he referenced in the beginning. Guest the ryanmurphy deal was a couple of years ago. Paul ryan, who was chairman of the Senate Budget committee, and patty murray was the chairman of the Senate Budget committee and they reach an agreement to slightly raise the domestic and defense caps on we have on spending and found some offset in mandatory spending and a very small amount of revenue through loophole closures. Anyway, i think they were called fees instead of taxes. At any rate, it was not really a big deal, but it was a big bipartisan agreement that got them past the shutdown. I think the same thing might happen this year. As the caller suggested, the ryanmurphy deal was not a big deal when you think about long term about getting the budget on a sustainable track. It did get them through the night. I suspect we w are probably heading in that direction this year. Host Speaker John Boehner referencing that deal speaking to folks who want to raise that question again. Guest the cast that are in place are very, very tight. They apply to a particular part of the budget, which is socalled domestic discretionary spending. It is the Appropriations Bills education, transportation, health care, nonmedicare medicaid stuff. I think theres some sentiment on both sides of the aisle that some of those caps are too tight and that they might want to come up on them a little bit. But they would want to find savings someplace else because the capture pertinent place to help reduce caps were put in place to help reduce debt. Host are you ok with the raising of those caps . Guest we be ok if a were to find some off set savings. Whether it is ranges from tax reform, we are always in favor of some grand bargain but there are many grand bargains. The problem right now is that congress is taking actions that are making the best fit worse. Debt deficit worse. They said one that cured a little glitch in the law. It is a long started host story. Host we talked about it on washington journal quote quite a bit. Guest the house is been passing tax cut bills that would reduce the state passed tax and other things that would reduce revenues. The actions that have been taken have been things that would increase the deficit. What we would advocate is a bipartisan agreement about things that would reduce the deficit. Host we have about 15 minutes left with robert bixby of the concorde coalition. If you have any questions or comments about this budget bill in the house last week and in the senate this week, the phone numbers are on the screen. Alex is in florida on the line for independents. Good morning. Caller a simple question. Why have the bush tax cuts not repealed in 2010 and they were delayed . They were unnecessary tax cuts even back in those days. I wish we would have more taxes applied back then. Most of those credits that went back into the economy really want to the corporations. Companies like ge, which, what do they do . They use their five 5 billion in tax returns to invest in china and the other 10 in stock buybacks and so did many other corporations. In other words, these tax cuts they do not bring the money back into our country. Thank you. Guest the bush tax cuts were made permanent a couple of years ago. You might recall that it was something called the fiscal cliff. Part of the deal was to make most of the bush tax cuts permanent except for tax cuts for the people at the very top. The ones that you presumably were most concerned about were allowed to expire. That is the end of the bush tax cuts. Most of them were made permanent for the upper i forget exactly what the cut off was. It is the upper ashlock. They were allowed to expire. Host we mentioned several times of the house voted on this the last week. The senate beginning to take up the budget resolution today. Do the house and senate approaches to this differ at all . Guest not substantially. They were pretty similar. Reaching an agreement between the house and the senate was not all that difficult. They had differences in their approach to defense spending. They kind of worked it out. The real tension is on dispense spending. Defense spending. You want to raise the cap storekeeper caps off how much do you want to avoid the caps by putting it to the overseas Contingency Operation funds . Host let us go to carmen and in in illinois. Caller i have a couple of questions regarding the budget and Social Security. What is the difference between the revenues and expenditures for Social Security . Why dont they just unlimited the caps eliminate the caps to resolve everything . Guest thats an interesting question. Social security has a cap at a certain level of income. I believe is around 118,000 or somewhere in that area. As we baby boomers reaching our retirement years, Social Security is going up in cost. The expenditures for Social Security now exceed the revenue that is coming in from the payroll tax and that is projected to persist evermore. And that is it does create a problem for the rest of the budget because the gap is made up to general revenues. Through general revenues. At some point, the Social Security trust fund which is credits given to the system through cap surpluses will run out around 2033 or so. So the system is already running a cash deficit, which is a budgetary consequence. By the way, the disability portion of Social Security retirement is already running a cash deficit. It is projected to run out of trust Fund Authority before the next president takes office at the end of 2016. So, that is a very important issue for this congress. It is not something that they can put off. Theyre going to have to do something about that. One of the potential remedies is to raise the cap and thus bring in more money. There are a lot of bipartisan plans that would do something to trim benefits, not necessarily right away, but things like gradually raising the eligibility age are making a benefit formula more progressive , particularly at the top end. There are ways that you can do both and bring in more revenue and scale back the projections of spending chairs. Something like that will have to happen before too long. Host several callers waiting to chat with you. Luis is in greenville, tennessee. Caller good morning, gentlemen. My question went along with the caller before the last one the bush tax cuts. My second question is why in the world do we continue to allow the wealthiest of the wealthy to keep offshore and theiring their money . I can also explain in real simple terms why the Social Security budget is kind of going away. It is because all of our jobs have been shipped overseas. People arent working here. A arent getting paychecks to pay into Social Security. Does it take a freaking brain to figure this one out . I dont think so. I dont think the wealthiest of the wealthy are paying their fair share. What prevents me with my little bit i retired, i dont have a lot of money, but a little bit. What about off shoring my money . How do i do that . Guest let me take your Social Security question because we had discussion about that. The problem there is simple demographics. This has been forecast for a long time by the Social Security trustees. It is not a matter of the economy has changed for jobs have gone offshore or incomes have not kept up. Those can be a factor, but it is really the dominant factor simply the aging of the population and many more beneficiaries and the text payroll tax not being sufficient. That has been projected. Ive been doing the concorde coalition for 20 years. It was forecast back then. Host concorde coalition and off shoring. Guest we dont have a position on that. Host jean is up next on the line for republicans. Caller good morning, gentlemen. I have a couple of questions. One is im wondering how they look at the quantitative easing that has gone on in the last couple of years. I know that affects the savings. Im just wanting his general comment. In the very cliff notes, could you explain to people why the deficit is twice what has been in all the previous years . What makes up those money . Thank you and god bless you. Guest i do fiscal policy more than Monetary Policy. Commentary easing is a monetary quantitative easing is a Monetary Policy issue. That is one of the tools that the fed has at its disposal to avoid an even deeper recession that we had a crisis atmosphere. It is certainly a legitimate topic. Did it go too far or whether it should end down now is not something that i feel i have the expertise to comment on. On the other part about the deficit, it is actually coming down. It did go way up over 1 trillion. It stay there for four years. Host a good time for a quick explain on debt versus deficit. Guest the deficit is the annual sum by which the government falls short of being able to pay its bills without borrowing. It is the annual shortfall. The debt is the accumulation of all the annual shortfalls. So thats the grand total. Host the deficit has been coming down, but the debt is still increasing. Guest that is exactly the point. When people hear the deficit is going down, they say it is really good. It is a good thing. But it really means that the debt is simply accumulating at a slower pace. The debt has to been going up still been going up. What you are referring to as the debt as a percentage of our economy is about twice what it has been historically in the postworld war ii era. A lot of that had to do with the huge deficits that were run up in the recession. It gets to your quantitative easing question in the sense that we had a very, very abnormal situation from 2008 to just recently. When the economy goes into a deep recession as we had spending goes up and revenues go down. And so you get what is sometimes called an automatic stabilizer because lower revenues and higher Government Spending are thought to use a recession ease a recession. The side consequences of that is a runup of the debt. The check now that the recession is over is to try to stabilize the situation and stabilize the debt to gdp and gradually begin to bring it down. Host susan in massachusetts on the line for democrats. Susan, youre on with bob bixby. Caller good morning. I wanted to make a comment about how we are paying for our wars. Evidently, we are taking out loans, which i guess never happened before. We usually raise taxes. But now we are so tax shy that we are kind of getting what we paid for. Also, i think if we passed an immigration bill that that would help Social Security of it. Having more people paying into the Social Security. Many of the immigrants have more children. Also, for the work. I do not know why they dont pass a conference of roads bill or transportation bill to improve our potholes and are failing bridges. It would help a great deal. It would put people to work and you cant cut things like education and health. These are things that we need as americans. They have to find a way to invest in america. Host that was susan and blackstone, massachusetts. She brought up at the beginning there how we pay for our wars. Have we always had an overseas Contingency Operation separate fund . Guest not always. This was made explicitly because of the budget caps and the decision that war spending should not be subject to an arbitrary budget cap. It does create a loophole around regular budget caps. So i think she raises a good point though about and prior wars, we have raise taxes or cut other spending to fund them. It is a mix of debt. We had tended to get away from that. In more recent years, we have not raise taxes, even cut taxes in the priest increased face of military expenditures. Host we want to get to steve in winter haven, florida on a line for republicans. Caller good morning. My suggestion is that while we go to this budget why dont we go to chapter 13 to help with the budget problem . Chapter 13 will help us get back on track and educate ourselves financially and help us balance the budgets and educate people on their finances because you have to take success afterwards want to take the test. So you understand at least what is going on and you get yourself back on track financially. Host education of the american public. Something that your coalition pushes for. Guest we do a budget exercise that is very popular and a lot of members of Congress Like to use the other town hall meeting for constituents. It is popular on campuses and with business groups. Basically, people sit around the table like this, like our college today, and we give them choices for a better Congressional Office and they come up with their own budget plans. It is a very useful educating thing. If anyone is interested in that you can contact the concorde coalition. Host the website is concorde coalition. Org. Bob exceed is the executive director. I appreciate your time this morning. Guest thank you very much. Host up next, we returned to the question we asked at the beginning of our show. The debate over broken windows policing. Is it effective . The lines for those who think it is and who think it is not effective and a special line for Law Enforcement. You can start calling them now. We will be right back. Remarkable partnerships iconic women, their stories in first ladies the book. She did save the portrait of washington, which is one of the things that endeared her to the entire nation. Who ever could find out where frances was staying, what she was doing, what she looked like. That was going to help sell papers. She takes over a Radio Station and starts running it. How do you do that . And she did that. She exerted enormous influence because she would move a mountain to make sure that her husband was protected. First ladies now about promised by public affairs. Looking inside the personal life of every first lady in american history, based on original interviews from cspans first lady series. When about their lives ambitions, families, and unique partnerships with the president ial spouses. First ladies president ial historians on the lives of 45 iconic american women filled with the stories of fascinating american women who survived the scrutiny of the white house sometimes at a great personal cost. It is illuminating, entertaining, and inspiring read. Now available as a hardcover or ebook at your favorite bookstore or online bookseller. Announcer washington journal continues. Host the theory of broken windows policing. We are asking our viewers in the last however half hour if it is effective for not. We want you to call in and hear your thoughts. That is cracking down on petty crimes that police create more lawful environments that keep were skies for happening. Worst crimes from happening. It is most associated with new york city, but it is a concept that has come under scrutiny especially in light of the unrest in baltimore. Heres a news story from npr. With baltimore arrest, more tibet debate over broken windows policing. Police forces are under pressure to rethink their most aggressive tactics. It is not just flashpoints like ferguson and baltimore. The new York Police Department is on the defensive about his longstanding approach known as broken windows policing. They say that it is the idea that police should crackdown on lowlevel offenders to crackdown on figure carvings crimes from happening. The chapters of the approach say that far too many new yorkers, mostly poor and mostly people of color, are arrested or ticketed for socalled qualityoflife crimes. Such offenses include riding a bike on the sidewalk, drinking on the street, jumping at subway turnstile, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is the concept of broken windows policing. That is the story from npr. We want to hear from our viewers. Do you think it is effective . Is it happening in your communities . Is a creating trust issues with the police . That he is up first in new york that heat is up for that betty is up first in new york. Caller i think it is very effective. I think they should get back to the stop in first and they should start cleaning up the mess that the city is in. We have to clean it up. These people are ruining the cities all over the United States. And i dont think that the government is being strong enough. I think that we need more Law Enforcement. If you do not commit a crime you have nothing to worry about. I dont know what the problem is here. These are the criminals that commit crimes. He lost them up in your arrest them. You lock them up and you arrest them. Host one of the criticisms is that it creates trust issues with the police and that police are overly aggressive on small issues and that it keeps witnesses from larger crimes from coming forward. What do you think about that . Caller it has nothing to do with your police. It has to do with your congressmen and senators who make the laws. They make the laws and they are told to enforce them. If you break the law, you pay the consequence. It is very simple. What ever happened to logic . I listen to you all morning long. You have money coming in and money going out. What is so hard about that . Stop giving it away to other countries and other places for stupid things. Take responsibility. Responsibility. Thats what it means. Its for what you do in life. Host that was new york this one could mary is on the line that was new york this morning. Very is on the line for those who think that broken windows policing is not effective. Good morning, mary. Caller it is effective in getting this people that keep doing the same thing. You get a hold of them. And then we take them to a place where it is like fort scott. I do not know what happened there. We have to do an investigation on that. But it was a wonderful place. My son is 12 years old and he did not want to come home and have to go to figure out what to do with six and stones and playing. This was a structured environment that have been doing things that was intellectually sound and same. This is what we have to do to our people. Host christine is up next in new jersey on the line for those that think broken windows policing is affected. Christine, good morning. Caller i think it is very effective. The one thing that i want to say is that with all the conversations that have been going on since all this looting violence, accusing the police of being strong arm with the africanamerican community, and i am an africanamerican grandmother, the one conversation that no one is talking about is the gangs. Do you realize that the gangs are controlling everything right now . They are a Big Corporation with ceos and they have their own board of trustees. Their goal is to keep those in the poor communities and keep them hooked on the drugs and keep them in this line mentality learned mentality of i have to do what i have to do. Host youre saying it is not the time to step back at all from those policing efforts. Caller not at all. The perfect example was on monday when you saw the young children, as they say, the young teenagers. They were hitting the malls. They had to stay so well organized where one group was going here and another group was there. While this was going on and everyone was focusing on them being teenagers, the gangs were focused on one place and one place only. That was the cvs store the pharmacy so they can get the drugs. That is where they make their money from the drugs. I do not think anyone is getting it. The media will never have a conversation with any of these gang members because, you know what . I lost my godfather. She was not doing anything but walking home at the wrong place at the wrong time. What this is all about is that until these young people who know who these gang bangers are snitch and tell, not one penny more should go into these inner cities because these young people know what is going on and who is doing what. Host christine how do you get those young people to trust police enough to tell . To let them know where the gangs are . Caller it is not about trusting the police. It is about the rule on the streets. If you snitch, those gangs are going to kill you. You are dead. You see how they use the very strong arm tactics, which goes to death. Whereas a Police Officer, who is just trying to get information and now chaos. This is what is happening out here. Until we get a hold on the gangs and get these gangs out of the streets of the inner cities, no amount of money will ever clean up the inner cities. Host that was christine in new jersey. In light of that unrest in baltimore, Loretta Lynch, the new attorney general, is scheduled to head to baltimore today. She will have meetings with psyd officials, members of congress, lawenforcement officials, faith and community leaders, according to a press release from the department of justice. She will be joined by the head of the Civil Rights Division and the director of the Community Oriented policing services as well as the director of the Community Relations service for the Justice Department. That is happening today in baltimore. Tiffany is up next in kentucky on that line for those who think that broken windows policing the syria leaking this theory of policing is not effective. Good morning. Tiffany, argue with us . Argue with us . Caller yes i am. This is with www. Google. Com ccr. Gov. In their, i forgot to put some docs and if you in there. I am, number one since 2011, the native center. During this time i lived in kentucky. Imd a by way of washington d. C. I created the medicine packed it that they used for the of old patient in texas. Estimate all my work through the white house. Gov paid i submit all my work through the white house. Gov page. I was pregnant in 2011. I have a set of twins. The photos on my Facebook Page undertook me loyal mitchell. Host we got all of your credentials. We go to oklahoma on the line for people who think that broken windows policing is affected. Barbara, good morning. Caller i do believe it is effective. It is effective as a technique to almost in an innocuous way of harassing a certain segment of our population. Of those people who call in and think that if people did not commit crimes that they wouldnt have anything to worry about but in new york, there were several stories where people went into stores to make purchases for watches. And they were arrested because the sales clerk thought that there was no way of them being right and that they can possibly afford that particular purchase. They called the police on them and they were stopped coming of the stores. These are techniques that are used. It is kind of like controlled chaos. You cannot come out and say that we are just going to arrest a bunch of black folks. You have to call it something that sounds legitimate. Just not far from me, we had a Police Officer who arrested over 20 africanamerican women. We have no problems with crime except for those kinds of places. These made up the loneliest pfelonious titles which are coverups for racial crimes. Thats all it is. It is not real. It works really well for those people who think that all black people are criminals, just because they are africanamerican. It is the most insane of mentalities. It is almost like listening to a klan rally. Where people used to meet up in the woods, now they just call in to cspan s out all of their. It is just unbelievable. Host that is barbara and oklahoma city. Some of our viewers bring up the issue of trust between police and communities. President obama talked about this issue on his appearance with the late show with David Letterman. Here is a bit of the president s comments. [video clip] too many communities do not have a relationship of trust with the police. If you just have a handful of police who are not doing the right thing, that makes the job tougher for all the other Police Officers out there. It creates an environment in the community where they feel as if rather than being protected and served, that they are the targets of arbitrary arrest or stops. Our job has to be to rebuild trust. We put forward a Task Force Made up of Police Officers, but also the activists will have been protesting in ferguson or here in new york. They came up with terrific recommendations about collecting data on what happens when there is a shooting involving police and what we are doing in terms of potty cameras. There are practical and concrete things that we can do to make the system work better. But this is something that i reminded people of the other day. This is not just a policing problem. What you have are pockets of poverty, lack of opportunity lack of education. All across this country. Too often we ignore those pockets until something happens. And then we ask the prize. Tv cameras come in and is simply we put the Police Officers and a billy top spot where we say just contain the problem. In a really tough spot where we say just contain the problem. Africanamerican men are being shot, but its not affecting us so we will just paper that over. Host in this last segment, we have a special line for Law Enforcement. We want to get their thoughts on this concept of broken windows policing. Robert is on a line in georgia. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for your show. I am and i saw officer from New York Newark new jersey. We call it the bricks early. The brick city. I was a Patrol Officer for three years. Im guilty of one thing during my time on the streets. And i guess when i first started, i consider myself being one of the best officers out there. But i noticed after a while with my fellow officers that were really doing some things and the community that i didnt approve of because i was from the community. I started to rebel against them. Well, as usual when i did that other officers did not want to work with me. It put the tag army that i was uncooperative they put the tag on me that i was uncooperative. Host what are some examples of things they were doing that you didnt agree with . Caller if we were on a stake out or Something Like that, it a lot of times what some of the fellow officers were doing we do the neighborhoods and the main streets were where things were going on. We usually would try to take out a person who really didnt have any money to bail out. We use them as people like to say snitches. What would happen is that we would sometimes put these people in that neighborhood. We would take them from west orange or something and we would work with the task force there can we would send them into this community of new work and sell drugs on the street. There was one particular street that i used to work on a lot. We would put them in the neighborhood and have them under surveillance. Some people didnt even use the jugs. Im being honest with you. But for the price that our informant was selling it for the bag of weed at the time, they would just buy it. As soon as they purchase, we will move on and within five minutes, we have another officer to arrest that person. We always try to get the main person in the community. In other words, we were using prescribed hills. That is what it was all about. A lot of places that we set up, and mastered seeing that that these people were being set up light that like that, and we have the felonious arrest. It doesnt have the a broken tail light. It could be that you didnt stop completely at a stop sign. We call them rolling stops. I have some tickets that i have to write a month. Host on a Facebook Page, but he writes that the policy of broken windows policing works if youre looking to meet and arrest quota. Those worried about a police state cannot be in favor. Caller there are three black officers and three white officers in the predominantly black neighborhood. Let me tell you something about that. Newark is the same way. Half of the officers on the foursquare black. Guess what . All the supervisors above me that have rank and work rating me were grading me were white. Therefore, even though i was a part of the force, i had no authority. I could be written up at any time for something. Those black officers that you saw in baltimore in your callers were saying that it was half black and half white. Yes, but the authority of the black officers were only trying to save their jobs. A lot of the times unbeknownst to us, we get caught up in it. We see officer restraining someone and putting these on the net. We dont have to do that. We do that for one reason to send a message. I have done it myself. When i put pressure on your head with my knee, im trying to cause you pain. Im not there to just restraining. As soon as i get you back to the jail, that is when your beat down would occur. Host that is robert on the line for Law Enforcement officials talking about his experiences from his time on a police force. Steve is an oklahoma on that line for folks who think that broken windows policing is effective. Steve, effective good morning. Caller i think it is not effective. Host oh, started goahead. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Caller i told my children in the 1980s when the war on drugs was started when reagan said that drugs are bad, although our Founding Fathers created the government and went out of their way to create a government. I think this is a war on the poor. It is a continuation of the war on the poor. I think that the police have to be reined in. They are not serving the american public. Any more than our congress is now serving the american public. Host that was steve in oklahoma. We always ask for your emails as well at journal cspan. Org. Dan writes in, why dont the good Police Officers blow the whistle on the ones that violate human rights or commit crimes . Why is no one calling for the disbanding of the police unions, like they do for the Teachers Union . Mona wrightson, Small Community organizations that teach in and support neighborhoods would be more effective than the concept of broken windows policing. Clyde is in san antonio, texas. Good morning. Caller im saddened to see that cspan is addressing symptoms rather than cause. I suggested on more than one occasion that if you really want to understand and people that should be examined for that behavior and typology is not africanamerican or people of color, it is really those people who choose to call themselves white. They dont know their history or were they come from or no why they are like complected. Light complected, etc. I said that there is a nation for this an explanation for this. It was a documentary in the late 1970s and early 1980s about the fears of cultural and i listen annihilation or the white premise on the myth of being white. The consequences were calling people of color others throughout the world. They need to look historically of what caused these problems. Host that was clyde in texas. A net is up next. What do you think of this concept of broken windows policing . Caller yes. I think in some cases that it does work. The reason i think that is because some officers are dedicated to your job. They want to go out there and help solve crimes. They want to help the community. They are really determined to be effective and doing the right thing. For everybody. Then you have the community as well with some people who are just criminals and want to do harm to other people and they dont really care about anybody. They just want to cause chaos in the neighborhoods. In some cases, it does work. Of course, we understand that there are some officers who are the socalled bad apples. What i think would work even better if there would be some type of may be to help officers understand the respective to the race or whatever the case may be. We have to learn how to get along with everyone in the community. I think that would work even better. Im not saying that everybody is going to be perfect. There is imperfection in every area. Every area. Im just saying that if there was more some type of training and talking to the officers. I understand that a lot of officers go out into the community and some are angry in mad. Ive seen officers actually beat up people before myself. I thought it was really wrong. But i know that there are some good officers as well who work and walk the community and talk to the neighborhood and engage and look out for us. We will work out for you. Look out for you. Ive seen that, too. I think we need more dialogue about it. I appreciate your show. I appreciate everyone talking about this issue. It is not going to go away until we continue to engage more and more about the situation. Host we have people talking on this on her twitter page at http twitter. Com cspanwj. Mike says that enforcement is good. But crime problems are in property stricken areas. Crime is a symptom. How about working on the solution . Jobs. James says, some things never change. There is always a contingent in complete support of to tell it areas of the totalitarianism. One column recently says that baltimore proves the need for broken windows policing. He writes that baltimore should be a wakeup call and that handcuffing coughs handcuffing cops leads to more crime and not less. It leads to the streets turning it into a war zone. What america is witnessing in baltimore is happening and neighborhoods that are under policed and spirals out of control and it does not stop until someone stops it. That is Michael Goodwin writing his piece during some of the height of the unrest in baltimore last week. We are talking about the concept of broken windows policing and asking if you think it is effective or not. We have a few more calls. Just a couple of other columns on this and on the topic of baltimore. Here is a paul poll out from the Pew Research Center on the issue of what happened in baltimore and the charges that were handed down against officers on friday. 65 of americans say it was the right decision to bring criminal charges against baltimore Police Officers in the death of freddy gray. That is 45 of republicans and 71 of independents and sunday 5 of democrats. 61 overall say that criminal behavior contribute a great deal to the baltimore violence. 56 overall site tension between the black community and police. 50 site anger over the death of freddy gray. And 40 overall say poverty and lack of opportunity contributed to the unrest. For background on this issue of broken windows policing, the economist talks about this concept and where it came from and a story from earlier this year. The term broken windows refers to an observation made in the early 1980s by a criminologist and james wilson, a social scientist. When buildings and windows are left broken and unrepaired, Everything Else will be left unrepaired, too. Breaking more windows cost nothing. More profoundly, they found that environments where disorderly behavior goes unchecked, where prostitutes visibly ply their trade or beggars a cost passersby, moore sees more serious street crime occurs. What this means for Law Enforcement is that when Police Officers keep the street or delete and punish small signs of misbehavior with a warning or arrest, people will behave in a more orderly way. That is how it is described in the history of the concept of broken windows policing in a recent economist police peace. We want to go to baltimore where glenn is waiting period glenn believes is effective. Caller broken windows policing is constant over and over again putting pressure on local residents and underprivileged areas. Most recently, there was an article in baltimore called lord of the flies. It was a fantastic definition of where are the men in the community that where there in the 1960s and 1970s that young men could look up to. You have got to read that. It makes a lot of sense that the youth in baltimore dont have that presence. Police cannot be that presence. Youre basically trying to clean up rather than fix. It really comes down to the half they are in prison or they are dead. Its a great article. That is how you fix it from the grassroots. What is the incentive to stay in the community and help these young people . Host our last caller that is going to do it for today. We will see right back here tomorrow morning at 7 00. Have a great day