Host very good thursday dare morning to you. The situation ferguson leading the front pages of both regional papers in missouri and in the area. Here is the st. Louis post dispatch from this morning, outcry and resolve, sharp ton takes the pulpit. You got issues in the city, is the headline there. This morning, has a photo and the lead story, Police Fire Tear gas in fourth night of furor. Police deploying vehicles on the street wednesday as they clash with protesters ferguson, missouri. You can see the picture there. A picture in the Washington Post story on this topic, racial gulf between Missouri Town and police goes back years. The picture of a protester trying to take shelter infer but son, missouri. Well be talking about that story this morning, but want to read you from the st. Louis post, dispatch story this morning, the latest from them. Law enforcement officials on wednesday asked for patience to allow the investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown to take its course as tension over the teenagers death continued for a fifth straight day. The story notes Saint Lou Is County prosecuting attorney said his office will take as much time as necessary to review circumstances that led a Police Officer to fatally shoot the 18yearold brown on the street saturday afternoon. Resisting pressure from street demonstrators and Public Officials for answers that show why the unnamed officer confronted brown and companion shortly after noon on saturday. For more on this and specifically the Justice Department involvement, want to turn to eric tucker of the associated press. Hes the us judge is the Department Reporter there. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Host lets start with the Justice Department investigation. Who specifically involved, how is the Justice Department involved, and does the Justice Department have a time line for when they expect to have answers here . Justice department has a specialized Civil Rights Division set up to review cases like this and many other civil rights matters. They became involved in monday. Theyre running a parallel investigation with the st. Louis county prosecutor, and his team. And just like you were just saying about the time that they plan to take on the investigation, the Justice Department intends to take it host what is a parallel investigation mean . So the local authority is going to be looking at whether the shooting of Michael Brown violated any local, state use of force laws, which is a very specific category of offense and prescribed by local missouri law, whereas the Justice Department is going to look at whether civil rights violations, and there are statues at issue there. One is well point out that no one is really the shooting was a hate crime, per se. That means taking Law Enforcement officials using the power of his office, power of his authority, power of his badge, knowingly deprive someone of their civil rights, their constitutional rights, and in this particular instance that right is simply the right to live. And so thats what theyre working on. Host a bit of the statement from attorney general eric holder in his statement this week on this, he said the shooting incident ferguson, missouri this weekend deserves a review. Every step we will work with the local investigators, who should be prepared to complete a thorough investigation in their own right. I will continue to receive regular updates on this matter in the coming days. Eric tucker what specific resources is the Justice Department providing to the local police as they try to conduct this investigation . Well, a Specialized Team of lawyers who review Police Involved shootings, and theyre based in washington, and helping out. Theres also, aside from that, whats known as Community Relations service. And thats a visit with the Justice Department that goes out to areas that are experiencing racial turmoil, racial problems, and theyre sort of mediators in a certain sense and they try to figure out what is the root cause of the turmoil and the tension, and they work to try to resolve that in a peaceful manner, and those specialists are also being deployed. Host last question for you, what options does the Justice Department have after this investigation is complete and whats the role of the Civil Rights Division here . In theory there could be a criminal prosecution, not uncommon at all for the Justice Department to prosecute municipal Police Officers for violating a civil rights issue, and there is within the Civil Rights Division a criminal section that brings criminals to the criminal prosecution. So no one has said that is the likely eventual outcome or the one predicted would happen, but that is a possibility, at the end of the tunnel. Host a Justice Department reporter. Thanks so much for joining us on washington journal this morning. Other news coming out of whats happening ferguson here from the Huffington Post, reporter was arrested ferguson. The story notes that the Huffington Post ryan riley was arrested wednesday evening while covering the protest ferguson, missouri, after the death of Michael Brown. The journalists were released unharmed but detention highlighted the ramped up police presence. The Huffington Post also released a statement early this morning from the washington, d. C. Bureau chief, that statement saying compared to some of the others who have come into contact with the Police Department, the reporters who were arrested came out relatively unscathed but that in no way excuses the false arrest or militant aggressive necessary towards these journalists. The police resembled soldiers more than officers and treated those inside the macdonalds where they were arrested as enemy combatants. It is now beginning to effect press freedom. The statement from ryan grim, the bureau chief of the Huffington Post. Were asking the viewers to weigh in on the situation out there. 202 5853882 for missouri residents. Danny is calling in. Danny, good morning. Caller good morning. I would like to reiterate what the Huffington Post reporter said. This is a symptom, all over the country, of the police not being mandated to protect and serve, but being wasnt in a be soldiers in the county next to ours they gave them the the pentagon gave them 1 million vehicle from iraq. Now, why they would need a bomb Explosion Proof vehicle for made for military combat, it changes the mindset of the police from being there to serve the public to being there to oppress the public. And they shoot people over the most ridiculous things. They put eight bullets into somebody. Host you might be interested in a piece in todays usa today editorial, pentagon helps fuel the ferguson confrontation. The pentagon might not have boots on the ground but it has wheels on the streets. The Media Relations chief confirmed that the Ferguson Police department is part of a federal program called 1033 that distributes hundreds of millions of dollars of surplus military commit to Police Forces across the United States, small items such as pistols and automatic rifles. That piece noting that such police is one element of the often toxic relationship between minority communities and local police. Would you agree with that assessment in the usa piece . Absolutely. Im going to be calling my senator today and say that surplus material was paid for with our tax dollars and theyre feeding off the public trough, buying military equipment they dont need, and then they dont know what to do with it so theyre just giving it anywhere they can give it, dump it, sent it out to the local police. I am really angry about this, and theres going to be hell to pay. Host lets go to rich waiting in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. Rich, good morning. Caller good morning. I would like to agree with the first caller, and i would also like to add this. That you mentioned about federal dollars and federal equipment. Where is the rightwing . Whereas the militias helping to defend these poor people . I heard information about the Police Forces overwhelmingly white policing overwhelmingly africanamerican community. I would think maybe the rightwing, these people are being deprived of their freedoms. Where is the rightwing and the malaysias to come to their defense . Im suggesting the color of their skin may be the difference. Thank you. Host stats on the community, courtesy of the Washington Post story we showed you. Ferguson one of the 91 municipalities in a largely white population, about two thirds of the residents are black. Thats a significant increase from 2,000, when blocks made up over half the population. White residents now make up just under 30 , yet the police force patrolling ferguson has not changed along with the population. The police force has 53 members and three of them are black. The citys mayor and police chief are white, as are most of the members of the Ferguson City council. Thats in todays Washington Post story about the racial gulf between the Missouri Town and police going back years. Lets go to michelle waiting in churchton, maryland. Good morning. Caller good morning. I am so, so sick and tired of hearing that how there are 53 white Police Officers and three blacks. Now, so does that mean that youre stating not you personally, does that statement mean those 53 white Police Officers are racists if theyre trying to defend themselves or something happens, and they happen to kill a black person . This seems to me the country is so divided based on your color, its so much more divided than it used to be, just because this Police Officer killed them, nobody knows what the story is. It hasnt gone to court. We dont know what the particulars are of the situation. All of a sudden because its a white person killing a black person its something racially involved and the color of their skin. Its just so, so unnerving to me. Host on the Police Department question, do you think it would help the situation if Police Departments were more reflective of the communities they patrolled or do you think thats an issue at all . Caller well, of course, they need to be reflective of the community but its not the Police Departments fault or that white Police Officer that typically white Police Officers, and black Police Officers and the community has majority of black residents. Host the department or the chief of the department should have done more to recruit people . Or where how do you think that situation caller what does it matter . I dont feel like it matters. Maybe they are trying to recruit black Police Officers. I mean, but the my point im making is that it shouldnt matter. These Police Officers are upholding their job and the law and it shouldnt be based on color. Maybe there are racists out there. But just because theres 53 white and three black, because this black youngster was killed, it automatically goes to the fact that its the color of his skin. Host lets go to jamal in indianapolis. Indiana. Caller good morning. Thats a tough act to follow. As a 50yearold black man, i am kind of i am in talk radio, thats why im out in california now, because of my duties as a radio producer and personality. But its amazing to me how there are people outside the black community that can simply dismiss racism when if you just change the colors around, if there was a town with 53 black policemen and three of them were white, and a white kid got killed, there would be a cause for earn can. But listening to the attitude of that lady how she quickly dismissed the racial components of this and didnt want to blame al sharpton and the typical thing that happens whenever people try to circle around, and dismiss an obviously racial motivated situation and try to blame al sharpton and the black community that is tired of bingo pressed, and the caller before her made a great point. Why do these Police Departments need all this military stuff if theyre out her to protect . They are out here looking like theyre in the middle east, going against the alqaeda or if there could be israelis going against palestinians. The black man is under siege in america, and all you have to do is just simply reverse the roles of the race involved in the incidents and america wouldnt be dealing with theepidemi i can if there were white kids unarmed being killed. Host bringing up the point of the Police Military subject that was brought up in an editorial by the Kansas City Star this week as they have been reporting on the situation. The Editorial Board notes ferguson the police compound the Michael Brown slaying with excessive force, noting this urban swath of missouri has suddenly come to resemble a military zone as riot police face off against citizens. The board notes the police must not make a bad situation worse. Lets go to frederick calling in from midland, texas. Frederick, good morning. Caller a lot of the callers made a good point. One of the problems i have as an africanamerican, you have 70 of the city is africanamerican, and you have a police force that doesnt represent them. Those people need to go out and vote and change the situation from the mayor to the council because you could get rid of that police chief if you have the representation that you if you dont feel hes doing the job that he needs to be doing. If youre not if you feel that there is not enough africanamericans on the force go out and vote. Thats your right. You have the right to vote. You cannot let yourself be put in an apartheid situation because you did not turn out the vote. I do not understand that. How a city that is 70 black, who is complaining about how theyre not being represented when the only thing they have to do is go out and vote and put in the people and the council and in the Mayors Office that they need to get the things done that need to be done. Host you talk about leaders in office, do you think president obama has done enough to address the situation, released a statement on this, but do you think he needs to come out before the cameras and Say Something about this and about the ongoing violence ferguson . Caller you have a democratic governor there. You have democrats i dont know if there are other senators is a democrat or not, but these people represent the state of missouri. They should be, before president obama comes out, they should be handling the situation. But africanamericans opportunity to get when i heard them complain but they wont get out to vote. Host at the white house yesterday at a press conference by without deputy press zero i can eric schultz, he discussed the president s reaction to the situation ferguson. Here is what he had to say. Yesterday the president and first lady sent their condolences to the family of Michael Brown. Officials of the department of justice have gun monitoring the situation and working with local investigators on a full and thorough investigation. The president believes the best way to honor the memory of michael is through calm and reflection throughout the community. Again, the president and first lady send their condolences to the family during this difficult time. I would add that department of justice has been dedicating resources to this, and we have been in touch with civil rights leaders both in the area and nationally. Host that was Deputy Press Secretary eric schultz yesterday. As we said at the top of the show, the governor of missouri, jay nixon, headed to ferguson today to talk about the situation. Here is a story from msnbc. Jay nixon breaks his silence. Breaking his silence on his twitter page, several comments last night on this subject. Among those tweets that Governor Nixon sent out, closely monitoring the situation. Alabama ask for calm and urge Law Enforcement to respect the rights of the citizens and the press. We must keep the peace while safeguarding the right of citizens and the press. Were getting your thoughts this morning. We split our lines up regionally. Mountain and pacific, 202 5853881, and that special line this morning for st. Louis area resident 202 5853882. Lets go to mickey in dixon, illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im the reason im calling is because i had an idea it might be a good idea a. Im not sure if this would workings but we have all kinds of industrial things that we could use. I think it might be a good idea that maybe the Police Officers on their vests have some kind of camera thing so they would have something to back themselves up, as well. And as far as all the looting and stuff, i think its really taking away from the main problem that theyre having. I believe that a lot of the looting is generally just for no purpleful use. Its easy to get a tv so they have the fires and stuff and looting is going to make the situation worse. Other than that, its just its a sad thing that did happen, and im sorry that the officer didnt try using a taser first, if the situation different i probably would think they may would have used force, but i believe that this situation is probably should have been the use of a taser. Host tucson, arizona is next. Sarah, good morning. Go ahead. Caller i believe that cops should really be questioned before they become cops to see if they really care about equality and justice. If they saw my 21yearold son who is half black, and if they would treat him differently than they would somebody else. And i think that this story boils down to the value of human life. And you know, if that was his child or family member, would he have shot a kid that is holding cigarettes in his hand and isnt even a threat . I think if you read all the different stories and his friend that was standing next to him, what he said, its just the lob the cop did not do what he was supposed to do. He should have placed one of them in handcuffs. He didnt say youre under arrest, he didnt follow the protocols that you follow. And thats not how you treat people that youre supposed to protect and serve. And what the woman said about the cameras on vests, they actually have shown the state thats implement that, that police the complaints of Police Brutality have decreased significantly since they have shifts and protects everybody. It protects mostly black children that are being gunned down for no reason because these cops do not value their life. Host what is the relationship between the local police and the community in tucson, arizona . Caller i think its fairly good. I got four children that are by racial. For the most part they havent dealt with that. I think, you know, in arizona you dont have a lot of that happening. Im not saying Police Brutality doesnt happen but i dont think its as significant as it is in maryland, atlanta, missouri, parts of la. Im grateful for that. I would just like peace, and i just would like people to take the time to pray for peace and that mourning mother who was getting ready to send her son to college monday. Host members of congress weighing in on this on their twitter pages and releasing statements. I am sad eached by the death of Michael Brown but encourage that there is support for an independent investigation. A republican says images and reports out of ferguson are frightening. Is this a war zone or u. S. City . Government escalates tensions with military equipment and tactics. And theres suzanne bomamiche, hoping for a peaceful resolution. One of the earlier callers mentioned the senators in missouri, one of those clare cle mccaskill releasing statements over the past several days from yesterday, senator mccaskill writes continuing to work the phones. Today and tonight dozens of calls including the head of the Civil Rights Division at the department of justice and a call tomorrow. Thats today, thursday, with attorney general eric holder. The other senator out of missouri, his statement, i join all missouri in remembering the family of Michael Brown and the Ferguson Community as they grieve the tragic loss of this young man. His graduation should have been a beginning of better things. I am fully supportive of the investigations on an open review of the events that went on, he says in that statement. Lets go to rick in ohio. Thanks for calling the washington journal. Caller hey, whats up . The number one tool for the top 1 to control all all the wealth is divide and condition court. Divide and corker. This gets back to the view romans. The media, fox news, promotes racism like its promoting a sale at walmart. The Disney Corporation put Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller in the booth on monday night football to promote racism. Host rick, what do you think about the arrest of members of the media yesterday, since you bring up the media, two members, one from the Huffington Post and one from the Washington Post according to reports arrested and then released, what do you think about the Media Coverage of whats happening ferguson . Caller well you just mentioned two people got arrested. I just mentioned to you that fox news promotes racism like theyre selling bread. I just told you that Disney Corporation, time warner, which controls cable tv has 25 shows with rednecks from guns. Theyre racists. The media, the media, which is the top 1 , needs racism to exist. They promote it. I just wrote a book, they market it. They market it like theyre marketing the state fair. Host jerry is in jacksonville, florida. Good morning. Caller good morning. I would like to say one thing. I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. And i think its done by the news media. Everybody wants to rush to justice. Theres plenty of white People Killed in this country. It doesnt make national news. Theres also plenty of white People Killed in this country by black youth. Theres been a number of shootings right here in jacksonville by black youth that rob people, got the money, got everything they wanted, and turn around and shot the lady. Host you talk about the relations between the police and the community in jacksonville, since you bring up the situation . Caller jacksonville we dont have the problems they have there, but i wouldnt blame it all on the police, you know. Like the one person said, let them people go out and vote. Now, im not saying the police are innocent. What im saying this country is too quick to get on the band wagon of black youth being shot by a white person when theres plenty of black youth being shot by blacks, and plenty of whites. Just look at the get the fbi statistics. Host still waiting for information about the officer who did the shooting. There hasnt been information released about the officer. The officer hasnt been named yet. The st. Louis post dispatch has a story about that. The headline, naming officer who fired shots is far from view nine the st. Louis, area, noting although many departments around the country release officers names and the details of youth and force investigations there is no condition ken discuss and far from routine in the st. Louis area where the subject has sparked controversy for years. The Ferguson Police chief said monday that he would release the name once the officer and his family were somewhere safe but later in the week declared it would provide it only under court order or if the officer were charged with a crime. Is so opposed to releasing the names that he once tried to pass legislation to protect them. They shouldnt have to face them at home. Thats another story from the st. Louis post dispatch this morning. Lets go to craig calling in from new york, new york. Craig, good morning. Caller hi, good morning. I first want to send my condolences out to the young mans family. Im a father, and i have a friend of the same age, and its tragic to see a young man shot down and left and in the middle of such an environment, brought up in such an environment thats governed by so much hatred. You can see the broken political and Law Enforcement system inferring son, and its been police and governed like that so long, almost like a detachment, and when you have that type of police over a community, and you have that type of Law Enforcement and bigoty and racism over a community, you know, as some point its going to bubble. We dont know the details of a lot of issues that is going on, ferguson, but from a lot of media reports and what youre seeing now you can almost what the environment entails, the everyday living, what it entails, you know, for a cop to back up a car and in such a force to provoke the young man, regardless of what the issue was, you know, you can see that he went to the extent of provoking the young man. Host were waiting for details of that investigation. A lot of people calling for those details to be released, including Jesse Jackson senior, civil rights leader. He had a piece in yesterdays ua today. He writes many are observing ferguson and witnessing the demonstrations looting and vandalism and calling for quiet. Quiet isnt enough. The absence of noise isnt the presence of justice. We must demand justice for ferguson. Too Many Americans have adjusted to injustice and inequality but injustice and inequality anywhere is a threat to justice and equality everywhere. Were taking your comments on twitter, as well. On twitter, i try my best not to do nothing. Wrong, because im scared of the police. Police are too aggressive nowadays. Were asking for your comments and thoughts this morning on the situation ferguson. I wal also want to know what poe relations are like in your community. That number 202 5853882, but well go to brandon ton, florida, joeys calling. Good morning. Caller good morning. I want to say the lady from illinois, she said cops having cameras, i mean, you cannot lie. Camera is effective. If he wants to sign a law in a way cops will not abuse people, and this has been going on for many years. Rodney king doesnt ring a bell . Police are abusing power. When a civilian kills a cop they most likely go to jail, death or life. When a cop kills a person, a civilian, they never go to jail. Not even a day. Not even a minute. Host thats joe in florida. Were talking about this morning after another night of unrest ferguson. According to the story this morning from the st. Louis dispatch, the animosity for the most part was verbal wednesday until a throne bottle prompted police to fire smoke bombs at the crowd. Police a short time later chased protesters into nearby streets after dispersing the crowd. The story says about 2 15 a. M. This morning a tense, quiet has fallen offer didnt you son. The governor of missouri headed to ferguson today. Lets go to linda in michigan. Linda, good morning. Caller good morning. I just would like to say a couple things real quick. First of all we dont know the entire story, at least i have not been able to find the entire story. Next, the behavior of the people, anytime a life is lost is horrible. It doesnt matter the color, the behavior of the people theyre destroying their own city. Theyre destroying where they have to live. That happened in the riots in detroit. The city has never recouched. People just wanted to get out. We all know what detroit looks like. I still love it dearly, but we saw what the behavior of the people did. You cant behave in that manner and use that as an excuse because of the death of a child. Down the end of our street theres a little beauty shop. When my daughter had prom i went in and i was inquiring as to the cost to get her hair done. The owner of the shop looked at me and said i dont do white girls hair. I said oh, okay, thank you. Not offended. I know state law says she had to be licensed to do everybodys hair but i didnt take that as a personal afront. Thats fine. Its your shop, its your business, and im not hurt. So i dont see why everything has to be made black or white. How about were just all americans and need to figure out what happens so it doesnt happen again . Host lynn sea said a lot of facts in this case still waiting to come out. The Editorial Board of the New York Times writing about the Michael Brown case yesterday, the death of Michael Brown is the headline on their lead editorial, they write what is not in dispute is the sense of a permanent grievance held by many residents and shared in segregated urban areas around the country. Though knocks excuses violence and looting its clear local governments have not dispensed justice equally. His death is a reminder of the toxic racial legacy. Thats yesterdays lead editorial in the New York Times. Lets get to jesse in washington, d. C. Good morning. Caller i watched the news last night, and the only thing that i saw missing from the news was hoses and dogs, the tear gas and things they throw at children was ridiculous. Now, south africa when they did that to the black kids of south africa, what they decided to do was walk out of school until it stopped. So since they closed school today, and closed the schools tomorrow, i think the black kids in missouri need to walk out of school until the adults in missouri investigate this matter and bring it to the public. Host noting that the School District ferguson and the ferguson area postponed the start of school. It was supposed to start today. Postponed it until monday. Weve got a few minutes left in this segment of the washington journal, taking your comments and calls on the situation ferguson. Also want to hear about the how police and community interact in your neighborhood in your part of the country. Michelle is next in oklahoma. Michelle, good morning. Caller good morning. I would just like to say i find it ironic that a couple months ago we watched mr. Bundy in nevada, he had a whole group of people armed, ready to shoot federal agents. President obama asked him to step back. Where is the governor of missouri . Dont he see that all this these army people coming into the neighborhood is only going to escalate the violence . He should come in and tell the people to step back, let the people protest, get the apinger out of their system. As far as the lady in michigan talking about the lady dont do white hair, that is totally different than a young child being shot. Its a big difference. And america, you all need to wake up, because the racism that continues on today is just a continuation of the laws. The man was white. The knowledge on thing we didnt see last night was water hoses. Host lets go to missouri. Judy is waiting. Judy, good morning. Caller yes. I dont remember the obamas reaching out to the families of the white man in detroit who was nearly beaten to death by black teenagers or the young white couple beaten up somewhere in the northeast, i think, maryland, because they were lost in their car. And to me having the black panther family, and a lot of protesters that have come in to missouri, and having sharpton this is like pouring fire on the fuel. Its very disappointing this is happening in missouri, and i think Everybody Needs to stop rushing to judgment. I dont see this as a racist issue. Im sorry, i just dont see that today. Its very disappointing that the president didnt come out and get this stopped immediately. But chooses not to do so. Host can i ask about the police and Community Relations in osage beach, missouri, where youre calling from . One of the issues that judy brings up is echoed by james arndt. If theyre still rioting theyre binge agitated by outside forces. He says i wonder who is behind it. Lets get to henry calling in from wood ruff, south kh carolina. Good morning. Caller i think that american needs to be real. We keep denying these are racial insensitive racial sensitive issues. Two examples, bundy in montana, the rancher that was grazing his cattle on government land, now you had white racist sue recommendists laying on bridges, pointing guns, pointing automatic rifles at federal agents and police, and nothing was done. As a matter of fact, the policemen stood down. And i had never seen anything like that in america. Im talking about american citizens pointing rifles at government Law Enforcement, and here ferguson you have People Holding their hands up saying dont shoot, unarmed, and you have guys come in like something from we protested this when it happened in china, and what i saw last night was no different. Host you bring up big National Stories about this. There was a National Discussion about Race Relations in this country in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting, and the trial last year. Do you think anybody has changed since those conversations have happened until today . Host its obvious that it happened. Like i said guys laying on bridges, i never seen that in america, and pointing guns at federal agent, and the agents stand down . And you got people walking with the hands up in the air saying unarmed, dont shoot, and its like you got the police so mill tar iced now, its like something from a thirled world country. Host mike, good morning. Caller i would like the say we just had a 19yearold black kid beat to death a even inyearold white man, beat his wife, left her for dead. You didnt see anything in the paper, didnt see anybody rioting about that. I think a lot of times they just use an excuse to riot. This is a terrible thing that happened to this young man but everybody has already convicted the policeman. Lets have a trial. Lets see what happened. Thank you. Host ray is waiting in midway, florida. Good morning. Caller how you doing this morning . Host good, ray. Caller ill be brief, a whole lot of stuff going on. Im a retired Police Officer of 30 years, and i didnt really become afraid of Police Officers until i became one. And that happened because i saw up close and personal how so many of the Police Officers had no business being Police Officers. Thats one thing i wanted to bring up. Somebody from texas said something about voting would do it. We got a real proof of how vote wont get it for you. We got somebody in the white house now that just aint going to do nothing in special kind of cases to deal with some things. Im trying to make a point about how that doesnt do it. The voting doesnt really do it. One other quick thing, im a vietnam veteran. The reason im bringing that up is you got to be able to recognize who your enemy is. And i know everybody aint bad, but if you dont follow your life that way you wont have a life to live. You got to recognize who the people are and quit being so hopeful that people are going to do the right thing by you. Host thats ray in midway, florida. Our last caller in this section of the washington journal. Up next well discuss the Obama Doctrine and what it means for u. S. Foreign policy in our Foreign Policy round table. Later we take a look at what big data can tell us about congressional incumbency with luke rosiak of the Washington Examiner. Well be right back. Here esa great read to add to your Summer Reading list. A collection of stories from some of the nations most influential people over the past 20 years. I always knew there was a risk in the Bohemian National and i decided to take it, because whether its an illusion or not, i dont think it is. It helped my concentration, it stopped me being bored, stopped other people being boring to some extent. It would keep me awake, make the evenings go on longer. If i was asked would i do it again, the answer is probably yes, i would have quit earlier possibly, hoping to get away from the whole thing. Easy for me to say, of course. Sounds irresponsible if i say yeah, i would do it all again. But the truth is it would be hypocritical of me to say no, i would never try the stuff if i had known, because i did know. Overi it union and the soviet system in Eastern Europe contains the seed of its own doestruction. I spoke already about the attempt to control all institutions, and control all parts of the economy and political life and social life. One of the problems is when you do that, when you try to control everything, then you create opposition and potential dizzy dense everywhere. If you tell artists they have to paid the paint the same way and one party says no, you made him into a political dissident. Then put it on the ballot sheet and make it clear and evident and make everybody aware of how much its costing. But when you deliver it through the third party enterprises, you deliver the subsidy through a Public Company with private shareholders, and executives who can extract a lot of subsidies for themselves that is not a very good way of subsidizing home ownership. A few of the 41 engaging stories in cspans sundays at eight, now available at your Favorite Book seller. Washington journal conditions. Host we turn to u. S. Foreign policy and the principles bodied in the Obama Doctrine. Joining us to execute the subject is Brian Katulis, and robert zogby of the Foreign Policy initiative. Mr. Zarate, the short hand version of the Obama Doctrine has been described as dont do stupid stuff. How would you describe the Obama Doctrine when it comes to u. S. Intervention abroad . The phrase i would use is minimalist Foreign Policy. What i mean by that, president obama came into office really wanting to put at the forefront diplomacy. And also sort of engagement with rivals, that sort of thing. And he really wanted to in general diem in a size the military instrument. The problem is that in focusing so much on the means, i think sometimes the actual outcomes werent always the focus. I think the most clear example of that is the russia, which despite the best of intentions yielded what we see now. In addition were seeing it play out with iran. Yesterday Supreme Leader talked about how these talks with United States are useless, and so the doctrine is a sharp contrast to the bush doctrine to the extent it is. Ill close by saying that the doctrine in recent days in particular has been experiencing a lot of criticism, surprisingly from some of his obamas most senior advisors. Secretary clinton in particular, who has criticized some of president obamas decisions on syria, some of his decisions on iraq, and in some ways also providing a sharp contrast to president obamas policies on iran. Host would you agree with that description of the Obama Doctrine . I have a slightly different view, and i think there is three main components. One is getting others to pull their weight around the world. If in the ek did aid after 9 11 under president bush we had this uber sort of fight about shock and awe power and were going to get around and scare everybody, we got right now a pragmatic administration that says when it comes to ukraine, europe has got to do something here. When it comes to the situation inside iraq, you got iraqi leaders that we have given billions of dollars of weapons to, and lives. They got to pull their weight. I think thats one component. The second component is bringing in a is tism and what works practically. This is a very deliberate president. He actually thinks through what might be the consequences of actions we take. I think that does have some down sides to it. I agree with that. When you compare it to all of the mistakes made in the previous decade, and the inheritance he got when he came into office, i think on balance thats a good thing. The last thing i would say is i think people in the Administration Call the long game, you look at what senior officials focus on, and an especially the summer is a great example of this, you look at the africa summit here in washington, you look at the indian engagement and engagement with rising powers, there has been focus on how do you expand this without getting entrenched with street wars, which are important. And well talk about this and wont disagree on much, is how you strike the right balance between having a proactive agenda of building a stronger zone of stability, without diverting so many of our resources like we did under the previous decade, of getting in these sort of in the trenches deep and trying to solve other peoples civil wars, and i think thats the fundamental challenge that any leader will have. Host in the wake of the latest action in iraq the white house Deputy Press Secretary was asked about the Obama Doctrine. Here is how he explained it. We do have sound fundamental principles that dictate how the president views the role of the United States in the world, confronting any threat to the National Security of the United States. The president said he will not hesitate on that front. And i would also urge you to read further in that speech when he talks about how military action cannot be the only or primary leadership in every instance. Just because we have the best hammer doesnt mean we have to hit every nail. I think that the president has taken a thoughtful, deliberate approach to these issues. He laid out his general guidelines for that speech. But our bottom line is the United States will use military force unilaterally if necessary when our core interests demand it. Of course, most recently you heard the president talk about our willingness to act on behalf of Human Dignity. Host has the president done a good enough job of explaining how the action in iraq fits into that Foreign Policy principle . I think hes tried to explain it, but to be frank i think he can do better. I think any president who is utilizing u. S. Forces cant lead from behind, needs to lead from the front. Ideally every day be explaining to the American People why were doing what were doing. A couple comments on what the Deputy Press Secretary said. I think its thoughtful to say my worries that the administration either we go to war or we take the present course. And actually i would say that the report in june of 2014 which lays out a range of options for things to do with iraq which went further that the Obama Administration, i thought that was a constructive thing to do. What can we do . The first thing is we need to move away from this sort of thing. But i think the second thing is that in terms of explaining why were getting involved with the yazidi, i think its a horrible thing that happened yesterday, she was injured in a crash after her emphatic earlier this month calls for Iraqi Intervention to stop this, at the end of the day how are we explaining to the syrians who have nearly 200,000 people died at the hands of the regime, how do we explain to the syrians and others, why were trying to save them but yet doing frankly very little . And last thing ill point out in terms of this idea of sound principles, one of the things that bothered me, you seen this in recent days, ambassador hoff, how the white house barred state department from talking to moderate rebels in 2011, 2012. You know, thats not, in my view, effective diplomacy. Host do these actions fit in to the Obama Doctrine and have they been explained well enough . I think they do fit into the overall Obama Doctrine. I dont think that theyve been explained as clearly enough to the American People, and i agree on that. I think more could be done on a regular basis to do that. Let me say one thing about doctrine before we move in on and get into iraq. I think its very important to have a strategy and explain it to the American People. When you look at what made america grade after world war ii, we had leaders. But you look at the bush doctrine, for instance, and its unclear what it actually was. There was a strong strand of freedom agenda, and i think thats great. It was really good. When you look at the implementation of that, either in egypt or in other places, you look at the trends towards human rights and freedom in that previous decade, last decade, it wasnt great. If it was a doctrine of preemption, we only really applied it under bush in iraq, not in north korea or in iran, so doctrines are important. But i think more important is what do you do when you implement. And your question on iraq is i think, look, things have moved forward. You got politics in iraq still happening. You got hopefully a new Prime Minister coming in. You got very limited u. S. Engagement in iraq. If you look at that paper from 2014 we were signaling you cant deal with the problem of the Islamic State simply ten the borders of iraq. I think the thing that is vexing for all of us, americans, we need to think about this threat, and i think its a very serious threat. Do it in a way that is measured, and clearer. I think what i think if i would suggest to the president how he talks about this, and what were doing, less in terms of limits and things like this and more in terms of what are the threats and also the opportunities to defeat this threat . And i think hes got the right architecture inside of iraq. Lets work with them, work with people who should be fighting for their own country. But lets also clarify that the nature of this new threat that has emerged inside iraq and syria i think is a big problem for us in the medium to longer term. I think right now were pretty safe. Our Homeland Security officials are working very hard to keep americans safe. And thank heavens. I dont think were on the verge of another 9 11. The trends inside the region are extremely dangerous. We need to say vigilant on those issues. Host well get into some of those trends over the course of the next 45 minutes or so here on the washington journal. Were joined by Brian Katulis of the center for American Progress and Robert Zarate. Here to take our questions and comments. Republicans can call 202 5853881. If youre outside the u. S. , 202 5853883. Has done a great job of doing that. Excandidates speakingd romney ill of the president. President obama needs to bring people in. I know he probably does not want to, but Condoleezza Rice, madeleine albright, people that really worked with all of the countries. The people need to get rid of valerie jarrett. She does nothing. I am sorry. There is no good doctrine. , the callerrate bringing up who the president has surrounded himself with these issues. Your thoughts. I am biased as a congressional staffer, but from the first thing i would like to see is the president and gauge on capitol hill. He canceled a it back with lawmakers. Picnic with lawmakers. These Little Things are good to build buyin. Lawmakers do not feel consultant. You saw it when undersecretary Wendy Sherman came before the committee. One of the biggest complaints where they were being informed, but not consulted on serious foreignpolicy issues. I think the president did do more on the congressional side. A fair criticism is this President Administration is not strong on congressional relations. By saying if you look at reagan and clinton, those are both president s that dealt with antagonistic and partisan congress, yet they were able to pass serious legislation. Budget hadey the budget act. President will have to figure out how to work with Congress Going forward in a really productive way. Host on the issue of congressional engagement, lawmakers pressing for a war vote on iraq. It is a vote that could exacerbate tensions between the branches and the present members with a difficult vote just before midterm elections. Mr. Katulis, do you think that is something the president should be doing . Guest when i hear about this, it conjures up the debate over syria one year ago what Many Democrats and republicans did not want to have that vote. I will be interested to see how many people actually clamor for this. I think it is important anytime force is used by the United States that there should be congressional engagement and oversight. Bobby is right, this administration could do a better job of building the fabric, and ana, the first caller, mentioned Condoleezza Rice and madeleine albright. It is a good point. President obama is at a Tipping Point in his administration. Most americans did not really care about what is going on in Foreign Policy. The world seems chaotic. We need to stay engaged. To have that, we need a stronger architecture, a bipartisan understanding of what it looks like. We talked about former secretary of president ticism obama, the you have multiple worldviews on the right, and i think it is great to look to work with congress, but if you look at the disabilities treaty, it has been stalled. You can blame the Obama Administration, but a lot of this is this strand of internationalism in the republican party, i fear it is dying out. It is not isolationism, but a turn inward, and we cannot afford to stick our head in the sand. Host among the members of Congress President pressing for that warroad, tim kaine war vote, tim kaine, rand paul. Bill on our line for independents. Caller good morning. I do not think mr. Obamas he has a clear policy on many things at all. That we tell you two points as to why i believe that. Entirentleman spends his prepolitical career in the university academics. The only thing he ever did was teach children in a classroom. They had to comport to what he said otherwise they did not get a good grade. The over the oval office is not a pace for an academic steeped in corona charisma. You need leadership ability and real world experience. Look at the west wing and then ask yourself this question where are the george shultzs, atkinsons, they do not exist. Host bill in louisville, kentucky. Among the criticism of the Foreign Policy are statements from secretary of state former secretary of state Hillary Clinton who said do not do stupid stuff is not an organizing prison principal. Then they made nice by having a hug at a party. Irate i will not guest the tea leaves. I will take it at face value that she has criticism and is trying to push forward a constructive policy, but to question about the style of leadership, every president lives in a bubble, but staff can do more to help the president reach out and see the intelligence information that he needs to see. I would like to recommend that viewers look up Lieutenant General Michael Flynns exit interview. He is the date Defense Intelligence agency director. It was a sobering interview that he had with, i believe, defense news, and talks about how he had an argument about how al qaeda is not dead. It is anology of idealism of jihadist. Calling isisohnson a threat to the United States. The fbi director called isis. It really took the metastasizing cancer of isis. Foreignpolicy problems are like cancer, and if you spot them early on and do strong, firm, but modest things to try to contain them, you can prevent , but ifm metastasizing you are reluctant and do not do the small things to help hopefully contain it, you have what you have today, a metastasizing Terror Threat in syria and iraq that could spill over to jordan, and the United States. J milesom twitter says obamas policy is consistent with that of foreign fathers founding fathers. What is wrong with helping but not leading in situations when it government should be helping itself. Isaac is waiting in the bronx. Caller i am trying to bring to the attention of the American People, have you ever seen any president being disrespected like this before . Host disrespected in terms of foreignpolicy decisions . Is that what youre talking about, isaac . I think we lost isaac. This criticism, does it border on disrespect . We are we are guest in a democracy. If there is disrespect, i think the president can take it. There was his respect for george w. Bush, and i would hope we could rise through that rhetoric and take them criticism, the good with the bad. One phenomenon that has developed as a lowering of the cost of making Foreign Policy a partisan wedge issue. Again, i go back to the 1950s and 1960s, this era, essentially, when my parents were growing up, we did have a sense of a coherent thread had there was always a fight coherent threat. There was always a sense of fighting between democrats and republicans. It went down during the vietnam war, accelerated during the cold war, and got really bad during bushs war on terror. I think we are at a hyper partisan moment. You talk about this on your program on all sorts of policy issues and politics clearly does not stop at the waters edge. Overseas, george w. Bush was disrespected in many different ways i think that was unfortunate. President obama had a vision of americant to restore power, and that is incomplete at best. Part of it is sniping. The actionsimizing of our military to deal with a threat, i think it cheapens the value of our engagement. Again, criticism is good, but when it becomes so hyper theisan, it does the road notion of america being a leader. Host katulis is with the center of American Progress. Robert zarate is with the foreignpolicy initiative. We are taking your questions and comments for the next half hour or so here on washington journal, as we talk about the Obama Doctrine and what it has meant for Foreign Policy. Bob. Virginia. Our line for independents. Caller good morning. Why trying to understand there is not the authority to give every country in the world the authority to go in with the sunni muslims. Mindsn ever change their with using brute force . If not, they are going to keep on doing what they are doing, which is unbelievable to me. And by the way, when the gentleman was talking about mr. Bush and the disrespect, i think mr. Bush earned his disrespect. Host bob in petersburg, virginia. I want to stay on the question on getting former partners, in thiso dissipate effort participate in this effort in iraq. Can you talk about the efforts, have they been enough . Host guest sure. Unilateralist, a but he was respected by some of our antagonists and that is part of the reason why we did not see the provocations that we see today. In terms of allies and partners helping, you look at iraq. Provided special operators and humanitarian aid. Germany and france germany is actually on the cusp of reversing a longstanding policy of not providing arms to these sorts of conflicts. France similarly. The French Foreign minister demanded that Foreign Ministers get off of their vacation in august and come and meet and that has actually happened. A bright note in all of this is we are actually seeing the europeans in particular a forwardleaning posture, not just in iraq, but we have seen it in the ukraine and russia. Unfortunately to the death of 300 people in that Malaysia Airlines 17 attack. Host you are not in your head. Guest i think what we agree is this long game we were talking about in Building Partnerships on a rack. It is good with the iraq. Would see more of in this is what president obama is trying to do with his oppose counterterrorism action with the see it fighters on the ground as air operations are being conducted. They are gritty, determined, going after this threat. It is a contrast what we saw in moz oh in june. Stripped offally their uniforms and drop the weapons u. S. Offices provided to them. That is a challenge. Having capable and reliable partners we were there for more than a decade almost a decade and you cannot make for theirt to fight country more than you want to fight for them. It is a serious challenge. When you look at libya, syria, what are people willing to fight for . In our country, we saw it. The civil war, the revolutionary war we have a National Identity that is clear. Host you bring up the Counterterrorism Partnership fund. Can you explain that . Panelist a proposed idea where instead of u. S. Troops going in and occupying these countries, you build partnerships in multiple countries all the way from pakistan into Northern Africa to get people to stand for themselves against the threat. I worked and lived in these places in parts of the middle east, and what we see in our media are the dregs, the fringe, the extremists. They do not represent the Islamic State, ordinary iraqis or syrians. Supportls a sense of that we will use our unique capabilities. How can we help others develop those capacities and do it in such a way that it is not as costly as, say, the iraqi and afghanistan war. Will it work . It is a concept. And placesse is iraq like syria, which look bad, but these efforts have not been funded. Is there any idea how much that might cost . Guest if you wanted to endure, it should not be only u. S. Taxpayers funded. Even countries like saudi arabia, they have proposed that given money to a u. N. Fund. These multilateral initiatives host about 100 million . The amount ofd money that they make when we develop our gas pumps, it should be more, as far as im concerned. It is about what others can do to help themselves instead of what we can do to help them. Host david. Caller good morning. I would like to start with the title, u. S. Foreignpolicy and the Obama Doctrine or cope doctrine. How come every 40 years we are waiting for a president to come in with a new policy . , on this zarate changing of Foreign Policy from administration to administration. Certainhere are constants, and whether that is eroding, we will see, but one of the constants is that the u. S. Is a pillar in international order. We learned during world war i and world war ii, that the United States, whether we like it or not, is sometimes the last bastion of freedom, and that which prevents all heck from breaking loose. That is the first thing. The second thing the United States has far from a perfect record of doing this, but working with prosperity and human to getting through the world. President clinton said in the 1990s sometimes we stumble, but we keep moving in the right direction. I think every president , republican or democrat, tries to move in the right direction. We tend to focus on the policies of the moment, but if you look at the grand sweep, people like robert kagan, who is on our board, had written about the broader strategy. There are constant. Live for our line for independents. Caller as far as obamas doctrine, i believe it is cleaning up the mess left by the former administration. Iraq, we should never have been there in the first place. Eatingcause obama is not on his chest talking like john asne and using his military the police force, it does not understande does not the problems out there. The guy from foreignpolicy magazine Ronald Reagan had democrats. , chris caved democrats caved at the slightest whim. That was easy for reagan. Clinton pastor public and priorities like doma past republican priorities like doma. This president has the extreme tea party that has never been seen before. You cannot compare the congresses. Host mr. Katulis, i will let you feel that. Guest first, on cleaning up the messes, i think the caller has a point, but there is a statute of limitations on how long we can blame bush. The Bush Administration made mistakes, and when some of my colleagues went into the white house, they were shocked at not only the economic disarray and if you remember that period, the crisis we were in, the worst since the great depression, but also the threats in pakistan. We did not have bin laden. We got him. We took some steps. I think any president understands the threats. The real debate is how you actually respond to them. That is a strategic debate, and that much of our the data tends to be tactical when we get into the weeds on syria and other places. The general thrust of it where bobby and i agree, u. S. Leadership is essential. We provide a backbone. Look at what the kurds are doing in fighting right now. When we send a signal that we are going to be engaged. The real debate is how much you calibrate that. How much you actually get others to pull their weight. How much we lead ourselves. One lesson, when you take a step back from both the bush and ,bama administration eras getting that calibration right because we do not want to bear excessive costs as we did ted the military did. The military was worn down by deployment. Our budget was destroyed in the previous decade. Buildback mode. I hope in the next clearly we bring better clarity to that and what that means while keeping a vigilant eye on the threats bubbling up in syria and iraq. Mr. Katulis,ate, has brought up areas were you agree. Where would be the disagreements on the Obama Doctrine . Wherewhere he guest he and i might disagree is on syria. In 2011i was following syria perspective. Ear there was a plutonium reactor built that could have given assad regime the rom i say this the Raw Materials for a nuclear bomb. That is where i started following this issue. Grew, ita conflict started out as everyday people protesting, arguing for more the assad regime, arguing for Human Dignity against the assad regime and the assad regime responded with guns. They responded with attack dogs. They imprison people. One thing that bothered me by the way, secretary clinton called assad a reformer. My colleagues and i were criticized for not doubting that assad was a reformer. Over the last three years we have seen assad is no reformer. Rather, he is a pillar of instability. Look up online the testimony by namedan defector code caesar. Defenseefore the house committee. The Syrian Regime has been documenting the torture and killing with each with photos of each victim that they arrested or detained with little or no pretext at all. It reminds you of the things you saw in the holocaust emaciated bodies, tortured human beings who died awful deaths. That is kind those are the kind of things we have seen in the edge assad regime. Brian, ill let you speak for yourself, but i think there are a lot of things we should have done, but secretary clinton who and leon panetta, they all in 2012 urge the president to do the kinds of things brian mentioned with the counterterrorism fund, to build a modern opposition, something ambassador for has an on the record saying we should have done. We might have avoided this metastasizing isis terrorist threat. Also, the use of chemical weapons by assad regime it was a norm that was shattered, and i worry how that will echoed through the international system. Host did you want to respond on syria . Tost on syria, the key words that he said was might have. There has been dustup with what secretary clinton said, but if you look at the full transcript, nobody knows what wouldve happened. I agree on syria and the uprisings in general. The u. S. Has largely been a bystander, except for tunisia, and our intervention early on in libya with the lack of followthrough that the president did not mention. Place like egypt as well. Think increasingly people in this administration, myself and others, it is an obvious problem, and to me it is a problem that the solutions are not so obvious to these days. Maybe it is in part of our debt because of our inaction. I think it is more because of actors in the region have done. Syria is a consequence of the assad regime and a broader middle east cold war, iran , all ofaudi arabia these countries have enormous oil wealth. They are throwing that around with weapons and money and a dangerous secretary an agenda. I we to blame for that . Maybe. I think the people and their leaders, when he told them responsible and accountable. Maybe we could have seen a different scenario. I am not certain given the historic forces that were at play. I do think it is point, 2014 going forward, i do think our actions in iraq this summer will hopefully lead us down a path of engagement. As i said, the right challenge is how to calibrate that engagement to get all of these actors already in this game themselves to stay the hand and stop these atrocities. Atlantic piece that sparked this debate we will try to get to as many of your calls as we can and the last 20 minutes or so. Stephen in everett, massachusetts on our line for independents. Caller i would like to talk to mr. Zarate. What i would like to find out ukraine putin invaded and took crimea. It must have taken him to were three years to plan what he wanted to do. Heres my question, before the 2012 election, president obama andsitting down with putin he had gotten caught saying to him wait until after the elections. I would like you know if you know what he meant or could you give me your opinion. Guest sure. Actually, president obama was sitting down with medvedev. He said after the election he will have more flexibility. My sense is that was more regarding things like nuclear arms negotiations, missile defense. It is hard to know what he meant. A lot of statecraft takes place behind closed doors and outside whateverblic view, but momentum there was between the United States and russia before the election, it is gone. It went away when the Russian Military occupied crimea. Today as the Russian Military drive 300 convoys, allegedly for humanitarian purposes, toward Eastern Ukraine. We see the Ukrainian Government doing some really good hangs in trying to contain that prorussian rebel threat, the nationalist threat, but my biggest worry, i will say today, we also have about 50,000 Russian Troops massed at the ukrainian border. Forbid, Vladimir Putin decides to mobilize his forces in the ukraine, i worry, what can the United States do at that point . Today, even now, we need to do a lot more to deterring and displaying the russians from thinking they could go further. Host new pulse, new york. Bob on outline for independents. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. About foreign obama and Foreign Policy, as a true independent i find it terrifying. If you discuss anything that is antiobama, you are a racist, rightwing, neocon, but we have a lot of problems on the horizon, and the most pressing is iran having Nuclear Weapons in the near future. Talks are by all the talks are by all measures failing and we have a president who is laying golf. Wentard that susan rice back to congress and ask them to revoke the war powers the president has. This is the secretary of defense asking the congress to take away the power that the president has. This is an issue where the president wants Less Authority and he wants the secretary of defense to have Less Authority to engage the enemy if we have to do this . As that sevenlis, you have heard about is that something you offered about . Guest susan rice is the National Security advisor. I think this administration has had a very focused approach of both containing and engaging iran. It builds upon the last two years of the Bush Administrations approach on this, and we can debate the merits of it, but there was a multilateral approach to engage iran on talks t. Not, thet worked or u. S. Has been deeply engaged. When people talk about the middle east and us withdrawing, there is confusion there because when i go to qatar or the uae and you look at what the navy is doing, we are the ones guaranteeing the security of the ulf, something that began before president reagan. You look at this and that literally more than 1 billion of weapons that we sold to oil rich gulf countries to develop vigilance against terrorism, we can have a tactical debate about whether the talks will succeed or not the strategy has been one but the strategy has been one of deep engagement with bipartisan support. When you look at the middle east a priority has been to make sure that the that iran does not get a nuclear weapon. I think there has been success and it is bipartisan there. On the authorization for the use of military force, i believe the white house wants to repeal the 2001 opera authorization to use military f, the to does one to does one the authorization to use delivery force. Effort some it do i have heard some say it is not need to be revoked, needs to be updated. A iran, yes, there is been bipartisan consensus on iran. Where it breaks down is on the question of pressure. Starting with the european union, came to include the 1, thestates, and the p5 five members of this 30 Council Cluster many the city council plus germany. Is it all carrots and no sticks . If you look at the deal that iran currently has the table from the United States, why whynt ali, nat nash it . t khamanei taken the policy on iran was stop, ship, and shut ship all Nuclear Material outside there was turkey and brazil, ship it out of iranian territory shut down the most shutdown the worst facilities. The large scale centrifuges in natanz. The administration has backed away from its own policy of stop, ship, and shut. You saw Hillary Clinton tell Jeffrey Goldberg of the atlantic that she would like very little enrichment, not saying what very little means. Way, south the africa had a Nuclear Weapons program and got rid of it and it was arguably one of the most intrusive regimes of inspection we ever saw. What we have today is nowhere near that. Ushink at the end of the day is where we see Congress Going, especially if there is a note serious good deal before november 25. More sanctions and waiting. For anower line dependent our line for independents. Caller what is the difference between president obama sending iraq and building up in vietnam . Growing thely number of soldiers and we have a full war in vietnam. Host the slippery slope . Guest i think it is a concern, and i wish he would talk a little less more about the limits and more of what we are actually going to get done. It is not even comparing apples and oranges. It is more apples and bicycles or something completely different. Vietnam became a national tragedy. It was a slippery slope, and part of why that happened, there was a perception that this war in vietnam was part of an overall fight against the soviet was a Strategic Logic that was articulated at little and Political Support on both sides. Host the larger picture of contentme containment. Guest iraq is harder to understand right now, and this is part of what bobby and i have been saying. The president has not articulated the broader threat that is toast, and that is a signal that this will probably be a modest engagement. We are seeing a slippery slope here. The last point i would say is that it goes to a broader point of making sure that congress and others are brought in on this, but having a national dialogue, whether it is on the war powers vote or not, i think we need a broader conversation about that. On oureorgia, herbert line for democrats. Caller you got to remember, everybody saying what hillary should belin powell on all these shows making everybody understand that if you break it, you own it. This man has military experience. I am a soldier. He has a relationship with soldiers, man. You cant keep looking at these dick cheney, mitt romney, Rush Limbaugh, these guys never fought. You have to get colin powell here all these guys have expertise but powell has experience. Will obama talk to him about what he meant . It would never be a syria. Host mr. Zarate, on Colin Powells assessment of iraq. Guest colin powell has a long record of serving his country honorably, as a man of the military and secretary of state, and any president would be foolish not to listen to former secretary of state, secretary of defense, etc. I take the callers point. But putting aside this whole discussion of powell, there are threats,ats, growing metastasizing threats in syria, in iraq, Islamic State again, some of our most senior National Security leaders have called home and security threat, even though it is thousands of miles away. We see threats in iran. It is an ally to rogue regimes like bush are also bashar alassad. It has worked with the North Koreans on missiles. In ukraine, russia, we see the return of great power rivalry. You talk about bipartisanship, i brought a copy of the National Defense panels report here. This is a congressionally mandated report, shared by clintons secretary of defense William Perry and general john abizaid, a bipartisan report and the member should the membership includes an ambassador on our board, undersecretary of defense for policy, as well as michelle , his successor, undersecretary of defense for policy under obama. It lays out a short a lot threats, the return of terrorism, the return of great power rivalry. Were cutting about a trillion dollars off of plant defense spending from secretary gates 10year plan for defense, and given the growing threats in the world we cannot be eroding our military and National Defense. You want to talk about bipartisanship . That is a document that everyone i would encourage reporters and viewers to focus because in terms of the long view host if they want to find that document . Guest google National Defense policy. It is a Government Agency and this was a congressionally mandated report. Host a few more calls with Robert Zarate and Brian Katulis. Texas on our line for democrats. Carolyn, good morning. Caller good morning. Let me start by saying i Like Washington journal and i watch your show all the time, but i must admit, it allows callers to call in your particular format does and some of the things that they say, they put out there as fact, and go unaddressed and unrebutted. Let me start with one of the gentlemen there, mr. Robert zarate spoke about the need for president obama to reach out to congress. I think he specifically mentioned him not attending some of the fourth of july picnics and so forth. You must recall that president obama went into office and he was trying to reach out to members of congress, and he was met with criticism and everything else. They refused to reach out to him. There was a caller from texas that was very critical of just about everybody, says that obama, john kerry, valerie jarrett, and she wanted to replace those people with co ndi rice and madeleine albright. By the same token, there are people who think that these are excellent people he has surrounded himself with, and we must remember that condi rice was criticized, and im sure albright was, too, during government attrition during their administration host we try to bring in experts for all sides of the discussion. Mr. Zarate, if you want to respond. Guest sure. I think brian and i agree on this point, so it is not just me, darlinfrom texas, and it is not just us carolyn from texas, and it is not just us. This president , among his riches will not be his love of among his riches will not be his love of congressional relations. Lyndon johnson love you going to congress and getting in peoples faces and getting them to do stuff. Its not a president who loves this is not a president loves doing that. It is not a criticism, it is an observation really. But if you end up with a republican congress, both the congress and the president will , either 2 years of gridlock and no voters will be happy, or you try to find some sort of Modus Vivendi and at minimum, discrete issues of Public Policy both domestic and foreign realms for more you can move the ball forward incrementally and maybe even more. Guest if i can add, we agree on the point that president obama could do a better job on congressional relations, but it takes two to tango, and i did raise a number of issues that i think there is a certain strand a little bit and the Democrat Party but more increasingly in thatblican party doesnt want to support trees and things that are fairly benign. This consensus on internationalism that needs to be rebuilt. Whatever happens in the senate, it could possibly be these proposed trade agreements with asia and europe. People think about that just as the economy or commerce. For this administration rightly thinks of the proposed transpacific partnerships the trade deal with asia as part of its data g of dealing with the rise of china as part of its strategy of how you grow the American Economy at home by export driven growth. Whether that works out not is a question. 2016,en you look at 2015, the agreement with europe is a. Oreignpolicy issue it is an opportunity to build a consensus on this is how we engage and make sure that engagement is not where we are bombing places and sending troops. ,uest in parallel reauthorizing trade promotion authority, because these agreements have no legs until the president has trade promotion authority. I talk to my friends on capitol hill, and you have not really seen the administration it is something that every president needs that they are going to push for, this strategic trade agenda. Dave on our line for independents. Caller my thing is with a you have to look where the money is. In the ukraine, when i first started heating up one that first started heating up, we sent kerry over there twice, and joe biden over, and when he leaves ukraine, the set of the 100 billion natural gas business over there. Briannk to list katulis on following the buck. Guest economic statecraft is what secretary kerry talked about. When we talk about trade deals, how do we expand the zone of stability and prosperity echo we . We had that with the wto. We need something new for the 21st century so it is a different issue than what the caller indicated. But i think that the economic considerations are important. Host branca tullis, Robert Zarate, i appreciate you both to Brian Katulis, robert saute, appreciate you both coming by today. We will take a look at the data and what it can tell us about incumbency and increasing tenure of lawmakers, and later, the debate over making english the official language in five states, and the 31 states that have such laws on their books. First, a news update from cspan radio. The white house says president obama is being briefed on the situation in a st. Louis suburb where Police Used Tear Gas and smoke bombs to repel protesters. Those protests in ferguson, missouri have been sparked by the death of an unarmed teenager shot to death by a Police Officer. The officer was white and the teenager was black. The white house says the president was briefed by attorney general eric holder and Senior Adviser valerie jarrett. President obama is vacationing on Marthas Vineyard along with general holder and ms. Jarrett and his family. Back to Foreign Policy issues. The United States ambassador to lebanon says washington will soon deliver additional weaponry to lebanon. The help comes in response to a request from the Lebanese Armed forces for emergency assistance, this after islamic militants overran the lebanese town near the syrian border, killing and kidnapping soldiers. And that the ms or did not provide a price tag but says it is part of a Longstanding Partnership with lebanese military. The United States is provided more than 1 billion in military assistance since 2006, including over 120 Million Dollars in training and equipment since last october. Today general Martin Dempsey he came the first chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to visit vietnam since 1971. He is seeking to boost military ties with hanoi while they are in territorial dispute with china. The United States has indicated that inmate partially lift a ban on the sale of illegal arms to vietnam as early as next month. General dempsey describes his visit as one of the highlights of my military career. Those are some of the headlines on cspan radio. Here are some of the highlights for this weekend. Friday 88 clock eastern, history tour. Saturday, the committee caters this is a Technology Fair on capitol hill. Sunday, pat buchanan. On cspan two friday night at 8 00 eastern, books on Hillary Clinton, barack obama, and and word snowden. Saturday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, daniel halper. Sunday at 10 30, the literary sites of casper, wyoming. On cspan3 friday night, the negro league 10 the city monarchs. Saturday, the depiction of slavery in movies. Sunday, an interview with president herbert hoover. Let us know what you think about the programs were watching. You are watching. Join the cspan conversation. Like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. Washington journal continues. Host luke rosiak is an Investigative Reporter who focuses on database reporting and he is the lead reporter in an ongoing series on congressional incumbency. Is a story that is out today in examiner,gton americans for val congress but keep reelecting incumbents over and over. You write that it is the most inexplicable paradox in politics. Congress andvile its inhabitants yet are voting the same individuals into office far longer than any time in history. These are career politicians out and out. It didnt used to be that way. If you go back to the history of our country, 100 years ago, there was only 26 members who had been there for 30 years excuse me, 26 to of been there for 20 years, and virtually no 6 who had been there for 30 years. The rise of the career politician is a new phenomenon. And as has often been throughout our history, but it certainly looks like it is rising lately, and these 2 factors are directly at odds with one another and it is really bizarre phenomena that they exist in tandem. Rise of the career politician and be seen on this chart from the Washington Examiner. The blue line here is the number of members of congress who have been in office 20 years or more. The orange line members have been 20 years or more. Green line members who have been in office, 30 years or more. What are the main reasons why they are staying in longer . Fair, you know, to be congress has grown in size since the founding of the nation and lifespans have elongated. But there are reasons this should not be occurring. Technology is a huge one. It lowers the barrier of entry to discourse and it allows anyone a platform to make their voice heard and let smart and admissions people engage in the public discourse. 1800s, thereand was a time when you basically had to be the elite of the elite to participate in our democracy. You had to be a white landowning male who had the ability to print pamphlets and distribute them. Communicating with the electorate was tremendously difficult. Now we have this populate this country where the population has grown and we are an Inclusive Society with a lot of different viewpoints. And yet we keep turning to the same few people to represent us, whether it is the bush or the clintons or udalls or john dingell, just coming back to the same person and electing them economic and. With a country of 360 Million People, it is strange that we have such a narrow cadre of people to represent us. An ongoing series on members of congress and the power of incumbency with luke rosiak of the washington when you talk to members of congress in your reporting on this, what do they say about this . Are they happy about the job security incumbency provides . Guest there is a faction of commerce that is in support of term limits and they are the exception in that virtually all of america a large portion of americans support term limits. It is one of the few dishes were congress and the general population could not be more out of step, and that is because it is almost a conflict of interest. Members of congress would be the ones who have to vote on that measure and that would be undermining their own job security. There are a few members of congress who support term limits, and one of them i spoke with is tom marino, republican from pennsylvania, who is in his second term. He talked about how you are in this washington bubble and you become distanced from the average american, and he talks about how people call him sir and want to show fo chaffeur and he says i can drive. The longer you are in it you are less able to relate to ordinary americans. Nancy pelosi was kind of in the news a few weeks ago because nancy pelosi wagged her finger in his face and call them insignificant. Why is he insignificant . Presumably because he has not been in office since 1983 like nancy pelosi has. But that is in ottawa to connote that is an audit way odd way to connote work in this you drawthat unless taxpayer salaries for decade after decade you are insignificant. Not surprisingly, it hasnt gone anywhere. Host if you want to talk to luke rosiak about term limits, our phone lines are open. But one other issue you explored in this ongoing series is that specifically when it comes to senators, they are around longer, they are going home last. Going home less. What did you look at about member travel . Guest this is about how members of congress spend office budgets. People have this feeling that they have been in washington forever, they have lost touch. Gauge mathematically whether there was truth to that. One of the things i look at is how often they return to their states. I computed how often each of senator returns home. I found a direct correlation between the length of time they have been in washington and the frequency that they go home. You see people like Diane Feinstein who is in her 80s and she goes on to california only nine times a year, or jay rockefeller, who only has to make a quick trip to West Virginia, and he manages to do that only nine times a year. Both of these numbers have been in office for decades, and it just seems the coalition quickly became evident. You separately have the factor of age, and if you spend 30 years in congress you are naturally going to be pretty old at the end of it and it may just be a physical matter where it is difficult for some of these members like thad cochran, who turns out is not even live in the state he represents, to go home. That is reflected in travel stats. Host you focused specifically on harry reid. What are his travel stats . Guest they are stunningly low, and we know that harry reid is a busy guy with important things to attend to in washington, but ultimately it is a in nevada and give him his power. According to the records he only goes home four times a year to nevada. When he is making judgments about policies that make americans and he is talking , it turnsg the guy out he scarcely ever even sets foot in nevada. Host we are showing viewers a chart that goes with your story on senators travels home. Far on the left, the average number of trips home per year. Arry reid at the far lower and tom carper at the top end. Guest tom carper it is kind of cool, because he is following joe biden, riding the rails from Union Station to delaware, and tom carper does it most nights. During the week he is taking the train home to delaware. Part of it is a function of geography. But to the point of harry reid, the fact that he has a highprofile leadership position is a good excuse, but it is not entirely absolve them it does not entirely absolve him. Tom carper is an important senator, he is chair of the Government Affairs security committee, and he still makes time for his constituents. Credit fordeserves that and there are other members who deserve credit because they go home often despite not living as conveniently as delaware. Tom coburn is one of them. He goes home every weekend to oklahoma and he does that even though he is also a Ranking Member of an important committee. Importantly, tom coburn is a guy who term limited himself. Term limits comes up again, because he is only in his second term in the senate and he has not been doing it for decades, so the opportunity for his engagement with voters in the state has not had the opportunity to wayne, and he has said from the beginning that he would only serve 2 terms, because he wanted to make sure that never happened. Host if folks want to check out your story, where do they go . Guest washingtonexaminer. Com. Host we have luke rosiak with us. Surely in texas on our line for publicans. Good morning. Caller i am happy to talk to you on cspan will stop i have found that the American People seem to have come to fear our government right now. These people go there and they are corrupted sooner or later. I think every time a congressman should be introduced anywhere would be to say what was their net worth when they went in, how many years they have served, and their net worth now. We know of those who have become millionaires, and their like royalty. It is like getting an appointment with the pope to try to talk to a congressman anymore but even if you go to washington, d. C. And try to visit your congressman, there is no chance for that. They become royalty, and we the people have no voice anymore. Limits. E in term the exposure of their net worth going in and coming out. On the topic of net worth going in, members have to file Financial Disclosure reports, correct . Guest right, and members of congress are far wealthier than the average american. Part of that comes back to we have not cast a broad enough net when we are electing members of congress. Time and time again we turn to what we know. Even if at the same time we say we refile congress. There are revile congress. There are 360 million americans out there and a lot of them are suitable candidates for office. Why is it that we keep electing the same people again and again . Why is it that john dingell took over his fathers seat in 1950 five and has held at that time, and it looks like his wife is going to get it after that . It is hard to believe that there is been no one in the last 100 years that hasnt just by virtue of sheer chance hasnt been more qualified than a member of the dingell family. There is something in our psychology that keeps us going back to what we know and we not going to break out of that cycle as long as we keep doing that. Host shirley brings up dollar signs. A question on your reporting of member travel back home are these trips all paid for on the taxpayer dime, depending on whether it is a lot of trips home per year or very few . Guest yeah, and it should be. It is a fortune of their office, part of their job to go home and hear from constituents. The most interesting one was chuck schumer. He did a good job of being present for new yorkers like he did it in part by throwing money at the problem, 1 million of taxpayer money on chartered planes over the last few years. Going from buffalo to rochester is hard. But ultimately the money doesnt concern me. It is worth the cost for these senators to go to constituents because we are not happy if theyre not approachable either. Host cindy is on the line for democrats. Caller good morning. Thank you for taking my call. Im grappling with something here, since 2010, trying to get a hold of our higher up, and asked the lady stated before, it is like trying to get a hold of royalty to get a facetoface meeting with these people. Dont understand it they are our represented its and it seems like even more you have got to go to a newspaper or tv station for our for your voice to be heard, and i just dont understand how you can get to see these people. If you could tell me, please do, because i really do need to see someone. I thank you very much for your time. Guest well, the problem is when you have been in office for 10 or 15 terms, your reelection becomes a foregone conclusion, and you dont need to see constituents because youre going to get elected in any way. When you see people who are new members of congress, they are working so hard and maybe theyre not better people than the old guys but they have the fear in them. They are afraid that if they dont work as hard as they can shake everyones hand and take every call from voters, they could lose reelection because theyve only been in office for 2 years and they know what it is like to not have power. When you have been in office for 20 years it is basically a coronation, and if youre elections arent competitive you dont have motivation to take those calls. Host you bring up the term fear. Matthew writes on twitter host lets go to riley waiting in dover, delaware, on our line for independents. Caller good morning, sir. I just wanted excuse me to say that it seems like most interest in National Politics and when you try to discuss politics with people they dont want to discuss politics, and they just vote along whatever party they stuck to since they started voting. They have no real engagement in the actual politics. Whine about how the Government Works and stick with whatever they stuck with since they were essentially chosen, and dont make any major changes. Just turnout and vote and go back and dont really think about it and just go back home to whine about the government. The Approval Ratings are in the toilet, and yet no one wants to discuss anything in depth or any piece of legislation or break down anything and discuss parts of it. Host luke rosiak, much of it is on the voters themselves . Guest we dont have a law that term limits these numbers but we have a epically good mechanism of term limiting them, voters saying that someone has been in office for years and is out of touch, we vote them out. Way inre is a certain which members of congress become out of touch over time, and we keep reelecting the caller is right that most members of the american electorate dont have a very nuanced view of politics. They are not as interested as the average cspan caller or listener. They just say they have this general discontent with washington. Thats is why you expect that logically to carry on to voting for incumbents. But there is this thing were americans say i hate congress but i love my guy, which at least shows that you are making some distinction there. Host on twitter guest definitely something i thought was a component here because one of the ways people get kicked out of office is the opposing party takes over the district. In the west we have these districts that are completely uncompetitive. Political scientists i talked to were not convinced that gerrymandering played a significant role in this, but rather that the market electorate itself has become more segregated and you dont see as many republicans or rural democrats anymore. We have naturally segregated. Urselves into these districts there is no competition there, and just like in industry you dont want to see monopoly because you have poor performance, it is the same thing in these districts, especially with party backing going to an incumbent, and it is very unlikely that a member of the same party is going to knock out an incumbent. These safe districts are big perturbing factor to the increasing tenure of lawmakers big counterfeiting factored in the increasing tenure of lawmakers. Host lee is on our line for democrats. Caller good morning. I find it very interesting that your guest is finding it hard to believe that 260 million americans keep on reelecting these people. But the people happen to be multimillionaires, sometimes even billionaires. Of sixve net worth acres, seven figures, eight figures. Six figures, seven figures, eight figures. That leads to power. We keep doing this because essentially they have the power. It is an up climb to challenge these people. It is not by accident that you have a bush father and a bush sign. They are billionaires. You have the clintons, which are wonderful people, as democrats, which i am, but theyre both multilane fish both multimode both multilane. Guest yeah, but they were not millionaires when he ran for office. The incumbents are raising money from often the industries they regulate by being on committees that oversee these industries. There is an advantage that is given to incumbents because theyre basically giving away something that is not theirs. They are currying favor by giving away Government Resources and production and the governments money and they are taking credit for that themselves and using it to get votes and campaign contributions. Host david is on our line for independents. Terms ofalking in staying in office so long, talk about the perks and advantages they have despite being in office, as compared to 70 trying to run for an office against an incumbent somebody trying to run for office against an incumbent. Host again, the power of incumbency. Want right so, if you if someone is having problem with my Social Security check arriving on time, i cannot call the challenger. Job and hedoing his will get credit for that and that helps them with reelection. You see that where people are dependent on government and you look at the the weapon in office for so long to Charlie Rangel who have been in office for so long. Charlie rangel is one of them, 42 years. John dingell in michigan, outside detroit. These people of constituents who are very reliant on the government for different forms of government benefits. When they think of the government that sends them the check every month, theyre thinking of their local member of congress. Not quite accurate, but it is the association in peoples minds. The longer you are in government the more power is given to your representatives. There is some truth to the argument that consumers make that some members of congress may want people to be dependent because it gives them more power. The power goes to the incumbent the more you are asking of the government. Host a couple minutes left with luke rosiak of the Washington Examiner. On thesee his article Washington Examiner website. Before he worked at the Washington Examiner he worked times andshington the center for responsive politics. He is here to answer questions on those issues and his recent reporting. Ann in North Carolina on our line for independents. Caller hi, good morning. Thank you for cspan, thank you for the topic. I would just like to get back to their wealth. Darrell issa, who i believe is worth Something Like 470 million . That is nearly half 1 billion. My representative here, virginia foxx, she is a multimillionaire. What do these people have in common with me living on 32,000 a year, working, paying taxes out the wazoo. 4000 in federal and state taxes last year. Some of these people in power act like we dont pay taxes. I just find it so interesting. What do they have in common with me . Guest well, on the other hand, as the government has grown, part of the reason why you see some much money in politics and so much lobbying is because the government is so large and doles out so much money that the stakes are very high. Lobbying has grown enormous the as an industry. Ist that means is that it lucrative to become a lawmaker because after you retire you become a lobbyist and you lobby your former colleagues. People who want to become rich have a reason to come to washington and stay here. In the old model you are basically a citizens legislator who would come from some small town and stay here for a few years and then go back home and resume a normal life in your neighborhood and work normal jobs. It doesnt happen anymore, and that is because even if you were born rich, you become rich after you even if you werent born rich, you become rich after you become a member of congress through lobbying. Laying devils advocate, lawmakers having wealth before office, they could be in a better position to just go back home and resume a normal life in the private sector afterwards. Host comments on twitter. Int lets go to duke South Carolina on our line for publicans. Caller good morning. How is everyone . Host good, duke. Go ahead. Caller it seems like your guest is knowledgeable and you have a very good topic this money on term limits. Just one question sure guest josh to your guest just one question sure guest what is the possibility of getting term limits i would like to make a couple statements. We need one term for the president , ratify and repeal the 22nd amendment to the constitution. The same thing applies for the senate and the congress. Host you are in favor of term limits. How do you feel about your congressman in South Carolina . Thisr now, tim scott, will be his first term, not just because he is africanamerican, but it will be his first term, but after his first term is ended he should go to the private sector and create jobs for South Carolina. Example,ey graham, for this will be his third term, if not fourth. It is time for change. Host luke rosiak on the chances of term limit legislation. , term limits are very common at the local and state levels, and they got that way not because officials there impose them upon themselves, but because there are ballot referendums and ways that everyday citizens can get measures on to the ballot in those localities and that those governance levels. There is no such mechanism at the federal level. In the 1990s, 24 states did pass term limits that it apply to their members of congress from that state. Right before they went into effect the Supreme Court threw them out as unconstitutional. Members of congress would have to vote for term limits for themselves or they would or there would have to be a constitutional change. Members of commerce are not going to vote for this even know what we heard from our caller is unanimous support for term limits, pretty much what we see across the broader population. It would come down to a constitutional amendment but it isnt very likely. Host but as pointed out on twitter host lets go to chagrin falls, ohio. Robert is waiting on our line for democrats. Caller good morning, and thank you for cspan. This is probably a minority opinion, but term limits are a theidea, a bad idea at federal level. At the local level all collisions do all politicians do is change jobs. We have a term limits and they are known as elections. There are powerful institutions in washington and powerful lobbyists. I want a politician who can resist some of these changes. Your guest i agree he is knowledgeable, but uses terms like out of touch, but that is just an opinion. It may not be it may be how he feels about it but may not be how the people who elected the politician feel about it. Guest well, when i say out of touch, part of it is based on my study of how often they return home. Being in touch requires physical visits to the state. Experience as an asset and like most lines of work you know how things work and you dont have to react to make. There would be a constant training period it every member of congress could only serve one term. It is a matter of balance. When you are 90 years old and you can barely make it to vote on the that is a problem. Not talking about getting 20yearolds in office and i dont think anyone is talking but limiting it to only one term. There is a balance. You need time to get acclimated. There is an interesting argument that tom marino, republican from pennsylvania, made to me about when you see the gridlock in congress and the bitter feuding, part of that may be the acrimony that builds up over the years. Debating on obamacare now, thinking on some slight that occurred 20 years ago between these members of congress as individuals, personal feud. To cleartage would be up some of those bad feelings out of the way by bringing in new personalities i could be focused on issues and not personalities. On the flip side, some of the new guys in office are more partisan than ever and that may be reflecting gerrymandering and things like that. But the other flipside of that is that you do make relationships over the years in office which can be an asset. Host about 10 minutes left with luke rosiak of the Washington Examiner. If you have questions about term limits, incumbency, member travel habits, all subjects that he studied in his series for the Washington Examiner, it was a call on our phone line give us a call on our phone lines. David is waiting in flint, michigan. Caller good morning. I would just like to say that i am a 61yearold man, retired and still working in another job. I feel like i have a different take. I feel like Older Persons have more life experience, more understanding of life than a young person coming in brandnew that hasnt really lived the years that we have. I kind of like the mature mind and the mature people that really have been around and can make better life decisions, as i know i am a lot wiser now today at 61 that i was a 30. Ok, thank you. Guest well, that is why i talked about balance. You dont want a 20yearold, but you dont want to say you are 90 years old and you are wise. It is a maturing process that occurs and by the time youre 60 you are probably pretty wise. In michigan, john dingell and john conyers, john dingell arrived in 1955 and john conyers arrived in 1965. I think there will be on mature at this point. They have been mature for some time. It is adjusting that michigan of all places is where these longestserving lawmakers come from, because typically you have a job and your performance is great you can keep that job for a long time, but we are talking about a trip here talking about detroit here. When john dingell entered office in 1955 that was a boom town and it was rate and it has gone downhill since that time. We ultimately have term limits mechanism and it is voters, it is all voters doing their research and Holding Members of congress accountable. It seems like detroit voters have not been willing to do that, michigan voters as well as people in places like harlem. You see Charlie Rangel, it chair of the Tax Writing Committee and yet his own tax problems. That is a big problem. Voters in harlem continue to make the same choice and it is damaging to all americans. It is up to us as americans. We have got to be serious about voting and do our research or we will go back to the same people because it is easiest and in the stances bydefinitive voters we will fall back to the status quo. Host we will love to hear from constituents of john dingell or john conyers or Charlie Rangel in these last few minutes here to get your thoughts on some of those comments. Maine, on our line for democrats. Sherry, good morning. Caller good morning. How are you . Host good. Go ahead. Caller why cant they put a term limit question on the November Ballot . It seems like a house and the senate are always in their rooms when they are voting. Thats it. Where are they the rest of the day . Host questions from sherry on members habits during the day on capitol hill. Guest well, it it turns out that where theyre not is in states. I was really surprised that harry reid only goes home three or four times a year. And i think most constituents would be as well. I have a list on washingtonexaminer. Com where you can look up your own member and see how often they come back home. Host to her question on term limits, a ballot measure for term limits, i am assuming that she means a National Term limit. If you want to talk a little but more about the Supreme Court ruling and how that has influenced this . Guest as far as i know, the Supreme Court said it was in that state didnt have the right basically, this is exactly what happened in the 1990s through ballot measures at the state level, because there is no such thing as a federal ballot. Elections are run at the local level. When the ballot measure introduced the concept of term limits, that does not hold up at the federal level. It does not apply to congressm en. This is already a battle that has been fought and came very close to succeeding, but at this point is not going to happen and the only way to do it would be a constitutional amendment. Host michael in illinois on our line for independents. Caller good morning. I think our congress and senate if you look at south korea, germany, the profile of their congress and senate and politicians matches the looks of the country. Younger people, 30 to 45 years old. Now people are 70, 85 years old, there for 30 years. They are too far behind the times, they dont see the modern technology, the way we need to go. And they are all moving way for the forward than we are highspeed rail, everything else, transportation, and we are falling farther and farther behind fighting things about 20 years ago. Abortion. Only Minor Country in the world that doesnt have health care for everybody. What is the big deal about giving everybody the human decency of health care . Guest definitely true that you look at what has reshaped our country in the last couple years it is countries like silicon valley, hardworking young people, the work ethic that comes with being energetic and innovative. And then you look at a lot of the serious decisions that have to be made that deal with these same issues, and you look at who was in congress, and they are people from an earlier error. You had ted stevens, who was in charge of basically regulating the internet, that was his main chairmanship, any understoo and he understood the internet to be a series of tubes. That was the quote that was on jon stewart in every thing. The internet is in the hands of an 80yearold. You have all these relics of the past robert byrd in the senate until recently. He was a member of the kkk. A bizarre throwback to a far, far earlier time, and an utter disconnect that comes not just through wealth than anything like that but also sheer age. You want the council of elders in the senate but it is a balance. Not 90yearolds, because the travel records show definitively traveling to be different state every day when i am 90 and these people dont have the ability to do that either. Host mason is on our line for providence. For republicans. Caller im a 22yearold College Student and i want your guests to help me understand why even though congress has such a low approval rating, last time i remember it was like 6 , but the same people consistently get voted in. Host nathan, you may want to go check out the story on the Washington Examiner, which begins with that exact question. But luke rosiak, i will let you jump in. Guest it is a question i dont understand myself. Thatical Scientists Say congressional seats are local elections that are based on personality and familiarity. You may have strong partisan views when it comes to voting for the president but you may bump into your member of progress at the supermarket or county fair and you will think fondly of him. Or it comes back to relying on government. If you if he serves you or you had to make the constituent request, you are going to vote for him, even though that is basically just doing your job. It does come down to well, one interesting thing i want to bring up is the party breakdown. There have been twice as Many Democrats who have served more than 10 terms in office than there have been republicans. I did go back to check that because some people were knocked out in the tea party takeover. It does look like democrats have consistently been elected for longer tenure than republicans. If you look at the list of the longestserving lawmakers, it is like john, john dingell, Charlie Rangel, people like that. You do see a lot of democrats there. Part of it is that the democratic machine is one where people have a vested interest in the government. Public employee unions are at the constituency. These that are a big constituency. These are people with a vested interest in the status quo. If your salary comes from the federal government when you have a growing government were more people are relying on the federal government, it gives more power to the status quo. Barack obama came along as a democrat saying that we want change, but then you look at many of these democrats, it is all the same people who have been in office for 40 years, and that is really the opposite of change. Host baltimore, maryland, waiting on our line for democrats. Caller good morning. Ask, has there been any consideration to lengthening the terms so that politicians have more of a chance to focus on their work and getting spirits while they are in office as opposed to having to worry getting it streets while they are in him office as opposed to having to worry about reelection so quickly . Though it is the big take away from all this is that longtime members of congress are not even worried about reelection. It is a foregone conclusion. There are many members of congress who are in their first or second terms and they have to be concerned about their impression at home. Today, theresd not a lot of appetite for increasing terms of all things. That is not something that any member of congress would bring up because it would be disastrous back home. Rosiak, reporter for the Washington Examiner. Thanks as always for coming in. Guest thank you. Host up next, we are asking you to weigh in on the debate over english as an official language laws. We will give you an update on what is happening in various states with ballot measures on official language laws. First, a news update from cspan radio. Hour mic news this the Labor Department says more people apply for unemployed and benefits last week, although jobless claims continue to be close to the recession levels prerecession levels. Applications rose to a seasonally adjusted 311,000. Employers are looking for more workers. In june, they advertise the most monthly job openings in more than 13 years. In international news, a russian aid convoys heading towards Eastern Ukraine with what russia says are 262 vehicles of the food, canned meat, horrible generators, and other emergency items. The convoy appears to be heading for a Border Crossing controlled by russian rebels. Russia had agreed to deliver the aid at a checkpoint where it could be inspected by ukraine and the red cross. Now ukraine says it is sending its own aid convoy to the region. Responding to the russian convoy this hour, New Hampshire she tweets this message the russian trojan horse is waiting at the border. South Koreas Defense Ministry says korea has fired five shortrange projectiles and the sea. The parent testfiring today came less than an hour before they welcomed the pope for the first papal visit to south korea in 25 years. The officials says the projectiles were fired from the east coast and flew 135 miles. Those are some of the latest headlines on cspan radio. Cspan presents debates on what makes america great. Evolution and genetically modified foods, issues spotlight with indepth looks at irans oversight, Student Loan Debt and campus sexual assault. The spec of zone issues including global warming, voting rights, fighting Infectious Disease and food safety. And our history for showing sights and sounds from americas historic places. Find our tv schedule one week in advance on cspan. Org and let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. Us. Us or email join the conversation. Like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. Washington journal continues. Host in our last halfhour, we are asking you your thoughts on english as official language laws. Heres the piece in the Washington Times. There is a sharp increase in the number of americans who speak english as a second language or dont speak it at all and its driving cities and states to respond. This year, five states saw pushes to enact official english language laws, although none of them passed. The United States is one of the few countries in the World Without a National Official language. We want to get your thoughts in this last halfhour of the washington journal on official language laws. Do you think they are needed . Do you think they would cause a problem in your community . We will start with mary lou from new jersey on our line for independents. Good morning. Caller good morning to you and thank you for cspan. Yes, i think english should definitely be the official language of the United States. I want to make a couple of points here. I live in northern new jersey. While this is not consistent throughout the state, the thing that really bothers me is when i get my election ballot. I get my ballot in three languages. English, spanish and korean. It is hard enough for me to read the ballot to begin with. To have to navigate through two other languages is wrong. If you are going to vote in this country, you should certainly be able to speaking flesh. Speak english. In the last couple of decades, we have turned into a two culture nation. Were supposed to be the melting pot. We are supposed to accept all other cultures and languages. Right now, it seems like we have two basic languages. English and spanish. We go to the supermarket and we see spanish on the food boxes and food cans. You hearup a phone and press one for english, press two for spanish. While the Latino Community definitely enhances our culture, we should be embracing all cultures. Host mary lou calling in from new jersey. We want to get your thoughts and comments in this last halfhour of the washington journal as we talk about english as official in which loss. We showed you the story from the Washington Times. Here is the stateline staff writer who wrote the story. Good morning. We want to talk about your piece. Talk about the growing divide comes to these official in which loss. How do they vary from state to state . Caller in some cases, what you see is a designation of the english as the official language and thats as far as it goes. In other cases, it goes as far as restricting what kind of documents a state can translate into other languages. Placing womens on that kind of thing. Placing limits on that kind of thing. Host Washington Times included with the states that have different types of english as official in which laws. The states in red have them on their books. You talk about the five states that are pushing possible english as official laws this year. Michigan, new jersey, pennsylvania, wasp within a West Virginia and wisconsin. Caller it seems as though pennsylvania is the one that has the most effort kind it. It was sponsored by lawmakers in the majority there. From what i understand, they will be having additional hearings later this year about the bill. Its one of those things that has been brought up before. Sometimes, it gets held in gomittee and does not anywhere once its introduced. I know, a decade ago, it was passed by a big majority in the West Virginia senate. But it never went anywhere in the house. States are seeing efforts this year and have recently. It is not clear where they might go. Host can you talk about the arguments that both sides laid out here . Caller in terms of the people in favor of the laws come it says in order to succeed in this country economically and in general, you have to speak english. Reasons, economic reasons, getting a job, daily life, it helps to assimilate and do better in this country. Helpe extent that you can motivate somebody to learn english by making it harder for them to operate without knowing it, that would help that cause. N the other hand, people point to california where you have half the people speaking a englishe other than at home. Its a multi Linguistic Society it islish is not still the dominant which, but that are two languages the driving force behind the culture there. When it comes to safety reasons or documents or driver training, that kind of thing, the argument isnt make sense to offer those things and languages that people are most comfortable with. Host are there serious effort right now to push a National English as official in which law . Caller that is something that has been around for some time. I know the Obama Administration has been against that. Since they have been in office, that has been put on hold. Host where does the United States fit in the world in terms of not having an official in which law . Caller it is one of the few countries around the world that does not have its own national language. Most countries have at least one or sometimes multiple languages. Host jake is a staff writer with stateline. He wrote the story. Stateline is a nonpartisan, nonprofit news service. We appreciate you joining us this morning on the washington journal. Caller thank you. Host we are taking viewer comments your thoughts on state english as official in which laws and whether there should be a national law on the books. Lets go to valerie waiting in california. Our line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. I just wanted to say that the unity of our country is critical. If we have divided languages all over, we lose a lot of our strength. I understand that there are people who speak other languages and we need to offer them the ability to speak english or have interpreters so they understand. But we have to be able to communicate and having one leg which keeps a strong. We are all united. One language keeps us strong. I think you need to stay more neutral. Host feel free to check out our website and check out the different programming we do there. Trying to bring you balance from both sides. Taking viewer comments in this last 20 minutes or so. Lets go to james waiting here in washington on our line for independents. The morning. Caller good morning. Theer i have to agree with last caller. A unified nationstate requires one language. If you have multiple languages, you end up having multiple nations within one nationstate. That is not good. Look at what happened with quebec. Look at what is happening in catalonia. Want toe people who leave with catalan. I want to point out one of the most recent National Surveys on this. A report from last year noting that 84 still support english as an official u. S. Language. Those are the numbers from their survey back in may of last year. One of the questions they ask is, is requiring people to speaking wish at the official language a form of racism or bigotry . Caller i think its silly. Its a silly accusation. People who want this country to galvanize will make that argument. Company bed a allowed to require its employees to speak english to work at the company . Caller do you want your employees to be able to speak with your customers . I think so her. Host happy to get your thoughts on those questions in the survey. The official english as an. Fficial language laws are texas, its an minority of Spanish Speaking people. Half thebusiness and time they cant understand the language. Not to touch electrical outlets or put their hands here. They cant communicate with me without having a translator. Thats a problem. Ideal for the school is a quarter billion dollars to build new schools here. Most of the schools are helping the immigrants coming here to be able to speak english and spanish. Host some stats from the latest Census Bureau report on languages spoken at home. From thet from 2013 Census Bureau showed the percentage of americans speaking grewsh less than very well in 2007. The story noting that of the 60. 6 Million People who spoke a language other than english at home in 2011, almost two thirds spoke spanish. Lets go to carolyn in North Carolina on our line for independents. Good morning. Caller this is a very obvious question. Who would not want people to speak english in our country . Who said that we didnt . The people who came here illegally . Think its the American People. Host we go to mail waiting mel waiting in florida on our life for democrats. Line for democrats. Caller it is good to learn other languages. We are a diversified country. We are the melting pot of the world. Everybody talks their own language. I dont see any harm in somebody else learning a different language. If you are going to say to yourself, theyre coming over ,ere, they should speak english i cant get my head around that because we should be learning ir languages and a lot of other ones. I know russian, spanish and english. It has not hurt me a bit. We should all learn other peoples languages. Host you think having a National Official language law would stop people from doing that . Or keep people from exploring other languages you are talking about . Think the law ist ever going to happen in america. We are a diversified country. We can learn other languages. If we make a law that is actually fitting punishment on other people i came into this country as an immigrant, too. Are the real americans native americans. We dont know their language. Explain to me what the difference is. A few other stats according to the Census Bureau report. In addition to english and spanish, there were chinese ath 2. 9 million, vietnamese 1. 4 million, french at 1. 3 million, german at 1. 1 million and korean at 1. 1 million. The prevalence of people speaking nonenglish languages at home very widely across the states from 44 in california to just 2 in West Virginia. Waiting in sande antonio, texas on our line for independents. The morning. Good morning. I think that this push to getlish only is just around things that would actually make people more inctional this country this country. The first thing that needs to be addressed as a true homage equal education law for all and get the of property taxes as financing of education. Secondly, the right to vote for everybody. Most of the people that propose english only are people who live in gated communities who never come into contact with people who dont speak english. Unless they are the mates or gardeners. Miads or gardeners. Host what we have in america is ignorance it goes against the whole notion of what is america. We want to get your thoughts and comments in our last 10 minutes or so. Janice is in massachusetts on our line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. Have extrae schools funding to teach english as a second language. Lynn, massachusetts has been in the news lately for some of the unaccompanied minors coming to our city. They are going to need english classes. As foruch easier been living in a gated community , every single house around me is a Spanish Speaking house. Tovery difficult for communicate with people. I took spanish in high school. Its one of the hardest languages to learn. I believe english should be the language of the United States. Host chris is in our line for democrats. Michigan. Caller i am flabbergasted by how many scared white people there are out there who are afraid of all of these different cultures. Our country is based on people coming here from other countries. This does not make any sense. A few other stats from that Census Bureau release. 9 rate of texas with speaking ailing which other than a language other than english at home. Midwest had lower levels with the exception of illinois. , 45 percent ofs foreignborn naturalized citizens book english very well. Had awho were nativeborn bachelors degree were more likely to speaking which very well. Lets go to paul waiting in virginia on our line for independents. Good morning. Caller i believe that english should be the official and which of this country. To the racist that was just on talking about white men being scared of it, no. Its a safety issue. You cant understand someone else, so how can you help them if they need help . You have to print out everything in different languages. It would save this whole country billions of dollars. Lets go to glenn in george on our line for republicans. Georgia. Caller i think its a big safety issue. I had a personal experience back spoke0 when a person who in broken ways we used chemicals in the plant. He could not speak very well and ofalmost poured five pounds cyanide in a fat that would have killed half the plant. Its a very important safety issue. I dont think we would want International Airports we fly into to be having to get interpreters to figure out what Landing Strip youre going on. Host 31 states have different forms of english as their official language laws. You to the red states there on that map from the Washington Times. Five states are sink wishes this seeing pushes this year. From go to cc calling them cici calling in from alabama. Caller i do agree with those people who think that english should be the first language. Spanish, we teach french and other languages in schools like we used to . Host her other languages not being taught in schools in your area . Caller some of them, but there are so many children who graduate from these schools in goodma for not getting education or anything. They are being pushed through school. Its the richer schools who can afford the best teachers. Host another poll on this topic. Yearfrom gallup from last noting that 72 of americans say its essential that immigrants living in the United States learn to speak english. 20 believe its essential that americans learn a second in which other than english. Those views have changed little since gallup first asked the question 12 years ago. One of the requirements for citizenship is the ability to write english. U. S. Ethnic major groups believe americans should english. And blacks are more likely than whites to believe that americans in general should learn a language other than english. Some stats from some of the most recent polling on this. Lets go to grace in massachusetts on our line for independents. Caller good morning. My thoughts are, it segregates you in a certain way if you have to speak english. I live in a building where there are different languages. Arenod and say hi and they lovely. However, you never really get to know each other or each others cultures. I think its difficult to ask ethnic people to learn, but it has to be english so we can get to know each other and know each others philosophies. I do think and i agree with the person who says that they are against property taxes for education. I think its unconstitutional. ,f you live in a wealthy town your property taxes will be so and you will have better schools. We have a lot of things we could do right in our country if we and said, lets learn from each other. But we can speak the same language as. That is a difficulty. Host on our twitter page from kansas onan our line for republicans. Are you with us . Caller yes. I just wanted to say, as a up withho groew firstgeneration immigrants, they would have been stuck if they had learned english, their families would not have been stuck in p overty. If you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, anything greater than a farmhand or day laborer, you have to learning lish. English. Host our line for democrats. That peopleink around the World Learning lish learn english and then are able to take advantage of many opportunities. Genesis chapter 11, the tower of babel. At one time, the whole world spoke a single language. As the people migrated out, they a plane and built the tower of babel and the lord came down to see the city and the lord said, behold, this people is one. They have one language and they began to do and now nothing will be restrained from them which they have imagined to do. Say is the thing i want to. You learn how to communicate with other people and thats very important. Who is thethe one creator and he made the different places and that is something that we ought to share. I am not afraid of other languages. Latin inr years of high school and three years of german in college. Read the language. Learning another language helped me understand english and the way its put together. The way english is put together. Caller diane is calling in from massachusetts on our line for independents. Was a my husband schoolteacher and he loved it and he had to retire early because he had some the students that did not understand him. They sent him home with a packet to learn spanish and he said, i cant do this and he had to retire early. You have committees and government trying to figure out why the kids are doing so poorly in school. Havingate jobs by schools for these kids to learn english because its not fair to in the the kids classroom that speak english. It holds up everything. I dont understand this business of we are afraid of immigrants and all that. My parents were immigrants and my husbands grandparents were immigrants. Nobody bent over backwards to have translators for the italians and germans and the french. I dont understand why this thinks that they are different. Thats what america is. Its the melting pot. You jump in because you want to be american. Thank you. Host we go2net waiting in iowa on our line for republicans. I agree with the previous caller. I come from an italian family. Grandson was firstgeneration bosnian. My concern is in the medical field where we see a lot of african immigrants with what old ilex. Dialects. E it is difficult to find that will be able to translate different dialects. There is english as a second language here at the community colleges. Unfortunately, their funding has decreased as well. Host cindy is waiting on the in florida on our line for independents. Caller i take exception to the fact that people say that im afraid of other peoples. In the past, they assimilated. That is why we were called the melting pot. Why wouldnt you want to speak