Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20140706

Host you can also catch up with us on all of your favorite social media pages a very good sunday morning to you. Isrges Guns Everywhere law what we will be talking about in the first 45 minutes this morning. A few headlines in the past week from around the country in georgia, headline sweeping new gun law takes effect. ,rom Al Jazeera America georgia now has Guns Everywhere. One of the headlines from the Atlanta Journalconstitution, see if itke months to is a tempest in a teapot or an actual storm. For a breakdown of what the new law entails we turn to the Associated Press and their wrapup of the bill, noting that the georgia safe carry protection act criticized by one group as the Guns Everywhere bill expands where license carriers can take their weapons and affects the rules including bars, churches, schools, law that wes the will be talking about for the next 45 minutes or so. We are waiting for your phone calls and comments, but as we do we will give you an update on what is coming up from the sunday shows on cspan radio. The guests on todays network tv talk shows, which start reairing at noon eastern on cspan radio. At noon, meet the press. The guest will be jeh johnson, republican congressman rao labrador, and tony blair. At 1 p. M. , abc this week. George stephanopoulos will speak and romanperry Catholic Bishop mark seitz, of el paso. Add 2 p. M. , fox news sunday. Chris wallace will be speaking with John Barrasso and bob casey. House oversight and Government Reform Committee chair, darrell issa, and the israeli ambassador to the u. S. At 3 p. M. We bring you state of the union, with Candy Crowley and henry cuellar. Marietta,of california, and michelle howard, the navys first female fourstar admiral. At 4 p. M. , bob schieffer, the , will face the nation speak with dick durbin and john mccain. Talk shows, starting at noon eastern on cspan radio. Xm satellite radio channel 120 eight. Online at cspan. Org. You can also listen to the free app for your iphone, android, and blackberry. Are talking about the georgia Guns Everywhere law that went into effect on tuesday. Onwant to hear your comments the gun debate in georgia. We will bring you up to speed on what has been happening in georgia in response to that law. Some of the twitter comments this morning host if you have comments, you cant talk about it on the the washington journal. Again, we have a special line for georgia residents. We would really like to hear from you this morning. The reaction to the georges Guns Everywhere law, one major change around the country put out a press release target respectfully requests that shoppers dont pack heat. That is the headline from usa today. The retailer says that guns in the store are at odds with the family atmosphere champions. Gun rights advocates have openly brought weapons into some target stores. A restaurants mated similar decision a pulley restaurants made a similar decision back in may only chipotle restaurants made a similar decision back in may. Here is an editorial cartoon from the drawing board section of the Washington Post today. Outside a target store a group of men have shown up of guns, they say they are not here to with open carry, we are here to shoot at your logo. As the debate rages around the country, we will show you some of those this morning, but first we want to hear from beverly from columbia, missouri. Good morning. Caller good morning. Host go ahead. I can hear you. Caller this is insane. What are we doing to our country that we are going to put guns in every state. This is like a rack. Rock i rock like a. Ike a rack like iraq when it comes november you had better start voting democrat. This country isnt sawn is gone. Insane. Come on, people. Wake up. Host are you concerned about the gun laws in columbia, missouri. Toler yeah, they are trying put it where everyone can carry a gun. They are voting on the right to carry a gun. You have a right to carry a gun in your home. That is where they belong. I grew up with guns. I have guns. But i am not going to carry them on the street. I have it here to protect my home and my property, but i dont need it to go to the Grocery Store, the doctor, or the Grocery Store. This is ridiculous. Mike is on the line for republicans in butler, pennsylvania. Good morning. I feel sorry for beverly, there. The emotional aspect of this overwhelms the reality. Facts change everything. In new orleans, for example, years ago they were running three or four carjackings per week. The Louisiana Legislature passed a law that said use of deadly carjackings is authorized. Within three weeks they had no carjackings. There is a point of fact that if honest citizens are able to protect themselves, crime goes down germanic lee. I think that what is necessary motion. Debate is not a it is in fact, reality. We have to take a look at the society that we live in and the ability to protect oneself is vital. To add to that, there is a town i wish i could remember the name of it, in ohio that for years basically had it was a funky law the way that they wrote it, but everyone was supposed to wear supposed to carry a gun. The crime rate went to zero, effectively. Have a great day. Host wait, jane doe on twitter seems to agree with you, writing that the Guns Everywhere law will be the greatest anticrime law in the United States. The sponsor beverlys comment from before, when she said the you dont need a gun to shop for groceries. What would you say to her . Caller i would say that you are exactly right until the carjacker attacks you in the giant Eagle Parking lot and he is beating your face and, perhaps a gun would be a nice thing to have. Host we also have a special line for georgia residents this morning, we would like to hear from you as this law went into effect in the peach state this tuesday. Mike is from brunswick, georgia. Good morning. Thanks for calling. Caller good morning. I am different from more from most torture residents, i have been here for 20 years and i have an outsiders look and an insiders look at the same time. I am educated with a doctorate and i see something going on here that seems to be missed takinging is focusing on guns away, where they can go, but this has to be considered also if they made a law saying that if you committed a crime with a gun and you went away for life imprisonment, i would think like the previous caller that the amount of killings would go down from 20000 and it would just keep spiraling down. You commit a crime, youre gone. If we just put people away forever and ever. If you went to the schools and said kids, next year there is going to be a law that comes into effect in if you commit a crime with a gun you go away forever and ever and ever. They dont do that. Why dont they do that . It is so expensive. I tell you, i will pay double the taxes if it makes the deaths go down. Host in your mind it is not stricter gun laws, it is stricter penalties and enforcement on the other side . Other end. On the lifetime imprisonment if you commit a crime with a gun. Like a previous speaker, i think crimes for guns would go way down. Why would you commit a crime with a gun if youd knew that you are going to jail forever and ever. You are in georgia. Signed bill was being the Atlanta Journalconstitution did a poll on this law and the voters roundly disapproved of the expansion of the gun rights laws , despite being more likely to believe that gun ownership helped to protect people from becoming victims of a crime. 59 gave the house bill that we are talking about a thumbs down. The results come even as 57 of georgia voters said they believed held owning a gun helped to protect people, others thought that it put peoples safety at risk. Where do you fall . This is not a democracy, this is an oligarchy. This is an example of a republican representative for you. Clearly, as the recent research that was peerreviewed shows, we dont live in a democracy, we live in an oligarchy, stop hermit stopped attending that we do. Ok, bill, texas, good morning. Are you with us . Go ahead. Guns everywhere, pretty soon it will spread to the other states. Fort worth and dallas, they carry rifles on their shoulders going into the stores. It will affect the economy, too. There is no way that most people in texas would go to the store with everyone carrying a gun. In georgia how do you know it is not the guy coming in to shoot up the place or the guy with mental problems and they are not allowed to ask about the gun . I think it is a dangerous situation for the country. My father was infantry. I feel that these guys want to be macho. There is an Afghan Border up there that they could use some help with. That was built from ranger, texas. We noted that the places of worship, guns are still not allowed, but religious leaders were given the right to say that they are ok in church. This is an editorial cartoon from the debate around guns in churches. The preacher saying how often do i have to say put the cell phone on vibrate. We traced in on this topic on the twitter david, st. Josephs, good morning. Caller code caller good morning. I am trying to keep a civil tongue in my mouth, but all of these people that hate the Second Amendment and hate those of us that practice it, they are full of it. If everything that they said and the places with the highest gun control laws would have all of this utopia safeness. Those of us that have right to carry laws would be in the absolute disaster, but always the opposite is true. Look at detroit, chicago, california. The list goes on and on when the Second Amendment haters have their way. This that they are doing it for the kids and dont want School Shootings . That is just an excuse. Forrved in the military over 18 and a half years. Most of it was in the guard. Back when rodney king riots were going on, we were being mobilized in missouri to get ready to go out there and assist. Well, it turns out just as i get there and think im ready i was in the armor for the unit then, my ceo comes in and says specialist, do not pack any magazinesdo not pack with more than 15 round capacity. My jaw hit the floor and he said i know, but we have got andle that are against guns the politicians dont want them to have an advantage over the rioters. Those are our orders. , all of funny thing these evil guns that these that us crazy gunowners have, the only places, businesses that were saved were the people using these terrible guns. They even joined together to protect nursing homes. You would think the antigun press would mention these people. No, they were the bad guys for stopping these people from showing their displeasure with what happened during the rodney king trial. They have the right to do all of his raping and murdering and burning places. All right, that was david, from st. Joseph, missouri. Churches and schools can opt into the law. Bar owners must opt out of the law by posting no gun signs and removing patrons themselves according to the daily beast, proponents for the carrying law right makes sense from the story is daily beast. Also interviewed, the head of the georgia chapter of moms demand action. Theyat story they say that are supposedly that everyone Walking Around with a gun is normal behavior, but i reject that. This is not normal, nor is it a visual that i want kids to see. I dont want my son to see his teacher packing. People flaunting guns in the open is frightening yes, we are afraid. Frightening. Yes, we are afraid. One more editorial cartoon for you, this one taking place at a georgia pub with a man being surrounded by people pointing weapons at him saying ok, ok, i will buy the next round. Mark, atlanta, georgia, good morning. Go ahead. Guns inmy take on these the streets, it is ridiculous. I agree and i disagree. I agree that we should have the right to have weapons because of the law, the Second Amendment, but you have to understand that when that law was put into writing, at that time it was mostly for militia purposes. And for defending against native americans, which at that time work violent against settlers. Host you are talking back in the 18th century . Caller yes. Right now we dont have that, you know . Yes, there is a lot of gun violence, but if you were being robbed and you had a gun on you, you draw it, you dont have enough time to draw your weapon any way to defend yourself. You will just get shot. If you bring a gun into a Grocery Store or a restaurant, that is kind of overrated, you know . Are you a gun owner yourself . Caller no, ive never needed a gun. The last time i might have i was a pizza hut manager and gun was drawn on me. Even if i had had one, i would not have had time to pull it. He just pointed it in my chest, you know . It is about where the gun comes from first, you know. If you are being carjacked or robbed, what can you do . I hear a lot of people use this excuse if they had had a gun they could have defended themselves maybe, maybe not. If you look at most of the cases with these mass shootings, these guns were used by people who legally have the right to have them, not by criminals. Criminals do not gestured up the shoot a whole bunch of people. They are trying to do things discreet. Whether they are legal or not, gun violence will exist. Host we have a special line for georgia residents as we talk about this law. House bill 60, sometimes known as the gun everywhere law. Jim patterson writes waitinganley has been in westborough, massachusetts. Good morning. Caller yes. Thank you for this program. Or three days ago i cut out an article and a picture in usa today. It was from a town called rifle, colorado. Colts. Re packing 45 guns were allowed and it was fantastic. [inaudible] host why is that fantastic . The whole town is safe. No one will go in there to rob a bank or hold up a store. Host the menue viewers, comes with armed waitresses. You can see one of them featured in that story, ashley sands, wearing a six shooter on her hips. Caller thats it. I did not know if you had that. I have grandkids in texas, where the teachers were trained by a pistol packing reacher. They have a broad holster and you dont see it. No one knows who they are. There. Y are also in texas, where my son lives, you dont need a carry permit as long as you keep the gun in the car. Carjackings are gone, you know . Ok. Host per our twitter page calvin,t there to waiting in frederick stead, virgin islands, democratic line. Good morning. Good morning. Host go ahead. Caller i would like to piggyback on the caller who talked about the militarys way under theapons, guns constitution. I am not sure how likely it is for there to be an amendment to , but istitution for that think that what georgia has done right now has given has created a military like society. Although it is going to have some it may have some , i think theyt are avoiding the other serious issues they have to deal with, Like Community policing and looking at how there is a lot of need for people to do work for these communities and other kinds of things that dont involve extending the right to own a gun to the public. I am not sure it is the right solution, putting gun violence or Violent Crimes with gun ownership. You are going to create a society that has way too many guns. That is calvin calling in from the virgin islands. We will stay on this topic for another 20 minutes or so, but also on this july 4 weekend Many Americans are thinking about their citizenship this weekend. This is a recent story from the wall street journal, it is about americans who have. Enounced their citizenship more expatriate americans breakup of uncle sam. With uncle sam. It is perhaps expected to go even higher in 2014. Here to talk about the story is liam pleven, who worked on the story. Thank you for joining us. Caller thank you for having me. Host glad you are on to talk about it. Talk about the reason, the cause that you looked into in your story for many of these americans cutting ties with the u. S. The americans and green card holders cutting their permit cutting their official ties is coming amidst a crackdown on overseas accounts that are unknown to u. S. Authorities. This is an issue that a lot of people may be associated with. Hidden accounts that people are using to hide money for tax reasons or whatever. But in fact what it is is there are a lot of people who have ordinary lives and they were not aware of rules that say you have to disclose even routine bank and savings accounts. Discovering, as the u. S. Crackdown on this in the wake of a case involving ubs from 2009, the discovery is the u. S. Crackdown is that they have obligations that are difficult and in some cases quite costly to meet. Even if they dont actually owe any taxes. These people are making the choice to renounce citizenship to not pay taxes . Are you resolved of dissolved of tax burden in that way if you give up . If youf you caller give up your citizenship, it you have to be current on five years of taxes, but it does stop the clock on that point for you for these stiff penalties. In some cases up to 50 of an account for each year in which dont file disclosure. That can be hefty if it is multiple years. Even if you dont owe any taxes. Is this the irs . State Department Officials . How many people are they looking into to find these accounts . The irs is just enforcing the tax laws. The Treasury Department and Justice Department have more roles, broadly speaking. What happened with this case in is the authorities found out information about overseas accounts and they have used that and developed more information in the wake of that that has allowed them to be able to say we are going to be able to get this information about overseas accounts. Passed an10 Congress Additional law known as the foreign account Tax Compliance to in which they said foreign Financial Institutions in order to come into compliance over a. Of years you will have to start providing this information to us. Many of the main provisions went into effect on july 1. Know, across the government an effort to get this information so that they can be sure that all americans are in fact meeting their tax obligations, but again in the process of getting the information to make sure that people are meeting their tax aligations, they also feel lot of other americans are finding again that even if they dont owe taxes they have to become compliant with the rules of these laws and it can be quite difficult to follow them, even if you dont owe any taxes. The overall crackdown has indeed netted somewhere in the ofghborhood of 6 billion additional taxes, fines, penalties, and that sort of thing. You go this we let morning, you spoke to the sup spoke to some of the people who made this decision because they could not afford their taxes. How hard of a decision was that for these people . Very difficult. Obviously u. S. Citizenship is coveted around the world. People who were born and raised and have deep ties to the u. S. , that is something that they feel very intensely. It is a very emotional thing, your citizenship. People who have made lives on to and feel like going meet these filing obligations is going to create burdens and threats for their family, they are faced with an uncomfortable choice. Do choose tothem renounce their citizenship or give up their green card and that is a difficult decision. Others decide that they will try to make do, even with this burden, because that is the choice they make, but for the ones that do decide to give up their citizenship in many cases i think it is a tough decision. This story infind the wall street journal. William, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thankthank you caller you, john. Host we are talking about this Guns Everywhere act in georgia. Starting in washington, cameron is waiting in union, a republican. Good morning. Caller good morning. This topic is important to me. I live in washington state, where western washington is pretty much blue smurfs. The state amended or added to the constitution, clarifying the Second Amendment, giving all citizens a right to bear arms, militia. A well formed during the time of George Washington he require that every ablebodied male have a gun he has the king might return. That was just to defend your families and your country. There is a caller that called talking about not having time to draw a weapon. I would rather die on my feet with a weapon in my hand then be slaughtered by some criminal. Recently i was target practicing about two months ago. I was by myself and i was approached by two men in a car that had tattoos up to their eyebrows. You could tell that they were there to rob me. I cannot go into detail but if i had had my gun on me they knew, by the way, i was positioned with a hand on a weapon, they would have possibly killed me. During the this time of the revolution only three percent of the population i wear a patch that said the numerical three represents only three percent of the population even felt we needed a revolution. God bless that three percent that helps to bring about this beautiful nation. I dont carry a gun because i am scared of zombies. I carry a gun because i am scared of criminals. After the connecticut sandy hook tragedy, Wayne Lapierre reminded us that only a good guy with the gun stops the bad guy with the gun. The last thing i wanted to quote here is that before president obama was elected it shows you how much faith people have in their federal government, the average gun sales in america were 3. 1 million guns per year and today they are up to eight when one million guns per year. I guess the people believe that without a Second Amendment, do you think you have a First Amendment . Points on there new georgia gun law. It allows permitted gun owners to carry their weapons and government buildings, including parts of courthouses where there is no security at the entrance. A repeals a state law requiring firearms dealers to obtain state licenses and maintain records of firearms sales and purchases. Just a few of the other points of this gun bill. The georgia safe carry protection act that went into effect on july 1. Marietta, independent line, good morning. Go ahead, steve. Caller one of the things i wanted to say excuse me, i was born in met in marietta. People know that kennesaw became famousst famous very by making everyone own a gun. The problem i have with the has to do with why they allow carry a gun where they serve our call. If you are caught carrying a gun while consuming alcohol, you are arrested. What about the previous law that allowed guns in restaurants and some of those restaurants also served alcohol . Caller i dont think it should be allowed. I really dont. I have a carry permit. I would not carry a gun into a place that has alcohol being served because it just causes but issues, more problems. I do believe i have the right to carry that gun anywhere in public. I dont show it. You know . It is concealed. But these people carrying it isnd everything just wrong. The show is too much. See if joe agrees with you. Joe is in roswell, georgia, independent line. Good morning. Hi. Thank you for having me on. To piggyback off the individual who was just from marietta first he said that they should not allow them in bars, but then he says he should have a right to carry it anywhere in public. A little bit of a redundancy there, so to speak. He says one thing and then something else. If i gamble and to go into a choice to drink or not to drink. As a responsible gun carrier i will not be consuming alcohol, first and foremost. When he mentioned kennesaw, when kennesaw passed the law requiring everyone that lived there to have a gun, they saw a dramatic decrease in home invasions and Violent Crimes across the board. People who are against gun ownership are carrying, what they never want to do is point out facts. The majority of these public shootings occur in places were people are not allowed to carry guns because the people there know that there will be less of a retaliation against them. If you know that you are walking into a place with a lot of armed people, you will be less likely to pull out a gun yourself, i would think, cause you know there will be retaliation. We have seen a rise in gun sales and a decline in gun crime overall. The majority of the gun crimes that occur with children are with gang members. Not with young kids or Elementary School kids shooting each other or taking guns out of their fathers closet to shoot themselves in the head. It is try merrily Gang Violence going on in places like chicago, new york, d. C. , los angeles, where they have the strictest gun laws but the violence seems to continue out of control. Larry is waiting as well to speak of this subject from tennessee. Larry, good morning. Go ahead. Caller you are going to church in a few hours. God created you in his image. I dont remember god carrying a gun. We survived the dinosaurs without shooting one of them. The guy that called in about have a look you and the only thing thatll stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun, except they dont put that on their shirts or wear white hats. You will remember the case in new york where the three officers had the man cornered in a foyer. They shot him 41 times, hit him 19. They missed 22 times and these are people that go to the range. Stanley says that now that the waitresses carry guns there will not be crime . James, John Jesse Dillinger . All those people when we had guns . Compelled by law . All he has to do is come up and take your car because you had to stop. Are you going to have a shootout with your kids in the car . I dont think so. They are always talking about however he seven times you use a gun, six bad things happen. Do you live your life like a lottery . Who wants those percentages . I dont know if they took math in school. Host where did you get that percentage . Caller that is, knowledge. Six bad things happen every time a gun is used out of every seven. Host where did you read that . I had not heard that before. Caller i believe it mightve been in mother jones. Mother jones. Ok, other people want to call in, running out of time. Some groups have called this the most extreme gun bill in america. Check that in february back when this is being debated. Experts said that there is no evidence that it is the most extreme gun bill in america. Alaska, arizona, and vermont do not even require permits to carry concealed weapons. The bills sponsor, rick jaspers, said that labeling the bill as the nations most extreme is a typical tactic on groups that survive on fundraising and headline grabbing, that is what they are supposed to do. The division dealing with airports is supposed to help licensed gun owners to forget that he or she might have their gun in their purse until going through tsa screening. With proof with a license she will be turned away but not arrested. Unlicensed carriers still face arrest and a misdemeanor charges. This is before the bill went into effect. Mike, west virginia, republican line, good morning. Good morning,r thank you for having me on. A good bill, in a way. I am sure it was passed to preserve the Second Amendment in georgia, which is a good thing. Time will tell how the bill turns out. I am sure a lot of the businesses down there have the right to say that you are not allowed to bring a gun into their establishment or not. I am not sure if that was put into the bill or not. Like we say, we will just have to wait and see how things go with the law down there. We have got time for a few more comments this morning, newsmakers this week, we were joined by the canadian ambassador to the u. S. He gave the canadian perspective on the Keystone Pipeline debate. A little bit from that interview on the hold that they have in the debate over the pipeline. [video clip] industry ing washington. A lot of people raising money all the time. Ory basically asserted claimed that if the pipeline was not approved, the oil would stay on the ground. Well, three years later, has anyone asked them if they were wrong . They will not confirm the by the pipeline being delayed in canada, north the coda, and montana this is not just a canadian pipeline, it also includes bogdan oil. Consequences of their opposition has been higher Green House Gases and higher risk. The trains going through your is a link there between delaying and denying a 900 increasehe in crude oil through your city or your community. You can see the entire interview with the canadian ambassador at 6 p. M. On cspan, as can also hear it online well. One other story this morning from the papers getting a lot of attention caught up in the nsa net, the headline on the lead story from the Washington Post. These discoveries are of host you can read more on that story in the Washington Post today. A few more calls on the Guns Everywhere law, which went into effect on july 1. Sam, rome, sam is a democrat. Good morning. I would like to say that if we are a godfearing nation, we believe in god. The last place we need to carry firearms is in our churches. Thatible says that he lives by the sword shall die by the sword. Thank you. Kimberly, good morning, thank you for calling washington journal. Are you with us . We will try to get her back on the line. In the meantime we will go to floyd, in jonesville, virginia. Good morning. For taking myyou call. I hear a lot of people calling in and saying they are going to church this morning. The georgia law is a good thing. Not readdent they have the bible. Peter, when jesus was in the garden, took off took out a sword and they had protection, they did not have guns back then, they had swords. If you go to church and they dont teach you about that, find a new church. Also, you would hope that they are teaching them what happened in the garden of eden. That is where a lot of the evil is coming from. His had a baby by satan, name was cain. They dont teach them that, they teach them stuff like snakes crawling into trees. Find you a preacher somewhere that will teach you the truth. You have got to have some protection. Someone a taxi with a stick . Get a bigger stick. Thank you for taking my call. Host isaac, new york, independent line. Caller one of the things that alarms me is the perception, for example, that new york city is such a dangerous place with its strict gun laws. What happens is that the rate of murders per capita in cities like dallas and atlanta are much higher than in new york city. This is an easily seen fact that comes from fbi files and other kinds of things that can be seen on the internet. A heavily armed population will have a lower murder rate really should be ,isarmed of its potency considering the actual facts in america today. Going back to georgia one more time, sheila, from carrollton. My take on this i am conflicted about this whole gun thing. I called the local carrollton target store in the afternoon. It took quite a while for the manager to come to the phone. I young man. He told me that he was getting hateful calls coming into the saying hateful things to the employees. Now, that is wrong. People do not make policy. The corporate makes policy. Call the store, ask them for the corporate number. Call corporate. The ones who are making the policy. Not the young people in the stores. Is referring to target asking its customers not to bring guns into the stores. This is the front page story from last week on that topic. Line, democratic georgia. Good morning. Go ahead. Caller good morning. I am a georgia citizen. I have lived in georgia all my life. I believe in the right to bear arms, but however this new law is very dangerous with georgia citizens because it is also a stand your ground law and all of hasracism from the 1970s been very prevalent in the south and in georgia. Here in florida we have seen lives taken simply because of an argument over music and the gentleman decided to shoot the kid because he felt threatened. This is virtually the same situation in georgia. Owner at this time, but i am seriously considering purchasing a gun. Not because i am afraid of criminals, but i am afraid that someone may decide to look at my two africanamerican sons and myself and decide they are threatened. Because of this law they may get off because they feel threatened. Simply because they said they felt threatened. That was our last caller in this segment. Up next in the sunday roundtable we will discuss the issue of Climate Change in the wake of the first named storm of the atlantic hurricane season. Later we will talk about the latest from iraq with professor Benjamin Jensen at American University. We will be right back. [video clip] how told the story about someone whose every aspect of their identity is a threat to israel my gender is male, my religion is muslim, my citizenship is american but my nationality is iranian, my ethnicity is persian, my cultures middle eastern everything about me sends off all the Warning Signals for israel. So, the experience of an iranian american single man trying to get through that airport in the 21st century is a reminder to everyone that despite the way that globalization has brought theloser and has diminished boundaries that separate us as nations and that and as ethnicities, people and cultures, despite all of that all you have got to do is spend a few minutes trying to get through that airport trying to to remember that those divisions, the things that separate us are still very much alive. Bestselling author and professor, russ oz long, taking your calls and tweets on islamic on the mentalism and the current instability in the middle east, for three hours today at noon ontern on indepth, booktv. Our endowment is the largest amount, historically, and is pretty healthy, just shy of 600 million. To put that in perspective, vanderbilt is in our peer group and they are at 6 billion. Harvard, which represents the pinnacle of the nations endowment is at 34 billion. Just to put it in perspective. If we are going to aspire to have that type of excellence, those types of facilities to produce that kind of excellence on our campus, we have to have that type of investment. It is my responsibility now as the 17th president s responsibility, when he or she is named, to go out and ensure that we expand those issues. Wayne frederick on the challenges facing the predominantly back black university, tonight on q a. For over 35 years, cspan puts you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, offering complete gaveltogavel coverage of the house as a Public Service of private industry. We are cspan, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago, brought to you as a Public Service by your local cable or satellite provider. Like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. In the sunday roundtable this week we are talking about issues of extreme weather and Climate Change. By [applause] andoined by David Kreutzer daniel weiss. Do you see the hand of Climate Change in the most recent storm . You cannot link a particular event to Climate Change. But scientists have said that all future events are affected because the ocean is warming. When the ocean warms, more water evaporates. The more water that evaporates, it creates conditions for more tropical storms. We expect that in the future we will have aliens of dollars in increased damage from hurricanes and Sea Level Rise, the combination can be very dangerous, as we saw in superstorm sandy. Whether or not arthur is specifically linked to Climate Change, we cant say, but we do know that the conditions that lead to these kinds of hurricanes are increasing due to changes in the weather from increased human pollution. For more on the link, this topic of the billions of dollars of damage that might because down the road . Guest there is not any trend in hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, or droughts, that is from the ipc see latest report the last fall, as well as National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration data center. So, we see warming without any trends in extreme weather events. We have now still in the longest stretch on record between a category three or higher hurricane making landfall in the u. S. That let that record is being built every day. The number of extreme weather events that cause 1 billion in damage have increased by nearly four times over the last four decades. Adjusted for inflation there are about 23 such events during the 1980s and so far in this decade there have been 73 and the decade is barely half over. What is happening as we have more valuable stuff in the wake of these hurricanes and natural disasters. Study after study if you look at the path that they go over it was not valuable real estate in the 1930s. Host not just hurricanes guest not just hurricanes, it includes tornadoes, droughts, and floods. In the last three years we have had almost three dozen with a total price tag of 210 million. Guest more is being damaged because there is more stuff to damage. Of the protections for Sea Level Rise, there are protections out to the year 2100 of a 39 inch Sea Level Rise and concerns about planning and zoning purposes, where people could build on the road in the future. How far out should we be looking out for issues like Sea Level Rise and the impact of Climate Change . How will that change how these developments are built . It depends on how far out you are looking. This summer is far enough out that you dont have to worry about it. Three centuries out . How clairvoyant do you feel you can be . Right now we are in a trend for about one foot of additional sealevel rise, about what we have had for the past 150 years. In the past 100 years there has been phenomenal migration worldwide. But we should make reasonable accommodations for the storms that we already have. The storms are the problem, not just simple Sea Level Rise. Go ahead, it does not make sense to build in floodplains. It does not make sense to build right up to the beach. What is reasonable and realistic when making these decisions were houses and environmental purposes . The largest u. S. Naval base is in norfolk, virginia. Sea level rise will be one for between now and 2050, it could be up to four feet by the end of the century. Have over 100d billion worth of property underwater, below sea level. Important is very that we understand that in action on Climate Change will have real costs. I agree that we should not be , we havein floodplains to make sure that our maps are up to date, reflecting the latest science. Enough, after Hurricane Sandy in new jersey and new york, they started buying up some properties rather than letting people rebuild because they are no longer safe from storm surges. For acan you explain difference between Climate Change adaptation and mitigation . Guest guest obamas plan focuses on reducing carbon and other climate pollution that exacerbates Climate Change. This includes power plants, heavy trucks, and other sources. Coal burning fossil fuels, or natural gas and oil that puts Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere and warms the planet. The second is what we like to think of as Climate Change resilience to help our communities become better prepared for future Climate Change. By doing things like not allowing people to build in known flood zones. In addition, the president had proposed a Climate Resilience funds to help communities better prepare for future events. For example, theyve got a Building Star Program which is a Pilot Program that creates incentives for homeowners to make their homes more storm resistant by putting special roofs more resistant to water and putting in windows that are more resistant to high winds. Those techniques, that sort of effort can save four dollars in damages to everyone dollar in preparation. It is all these things. We just ran through a lot ohthe proposals of the Obama Administration. What is reasonable in your mind . Requires thata every car has a sticker on the window to indicate how much gas mileage it gets and how much it costs. These proposals should have a similar sticker. How much is going to cost and how much will it mitigate . What we find is that very little, even if you believe the , theseamatic projections proposals and a broader one will do nothing to change temperatures down the road. 80 reduction by 2050 and cap that flatlined there on out, it might make 2 10 of one degree difference by the end of the century. All of europe and japan has joined us on that, it would make3 10 of one degree. Then you have to look at the cost. Hundreds of thousands of jobs typically in these programs that are offered. They talked about billions of dollars of increased Weather Damage which is hardly going to be mitigated at all3 we are going to have hits to the economy of hundreds of billions of dollars per year. It is not a very good idea to do the mitigation. The adaptation make sense even if we are not going to have increases and the sea level or worse storms. We are hashing out this debate and we want to invite our callers to call in and give us your thoughts and questions for our panel. With theitzer is Heritage Foundation and dan weiss is here to answer your questions. We will start with andrew from massachusetts on our line for democrats. Good morning. Iller good morning, understand the Science Behind Climate Change and i think its a very important issue not just economically speaking to the Business Community but to the world in general. How is Climate Change going to impact agriculture and the ability to feed the peoples of the world . Thats all i have to say. Guest the National Climate assessment which is some of the nations best scientists put this together and it was released back in may. You have a copy of it right there. It suggests that Climate Change could have very disruptive effects on the u. S. Agricultural that wouldreas receive a certain level of precipitation would receive less in the crops therefore would face hotter temperatures. We are likely to see business as usual. It could double the number of days across the country that are 95 degrees or hotter which could have a huge impact on agriculture. Already we are seeing impacts in california with the worst drought there in 500 years. That is a harbinger of things to come. Host you have written quite a bit about the National Climate assessment and some of your concerns with the science thats in there. Guest right, they talk about the impact of climate events that they claim are already happening. They talk about what has not happened. You should team up with the history channel. The same sorts of things were predicted in the 1970s that we would run out of resources and not be able to feed the world. If we look at actual trends, we are feeding more people on fewer acres than ever before. There is no reason to believe that those trends will stop. As we have improved breeds of crops, we have improved technologies ,co2 is a potent fertilizer that a doubling of co2 which looks like we will hit by the end of the century will increase Grain Production alone. If you have no new technologies come it will increase by 30 . Will lead to a 10 degree fahrenheit increase in the average temperature. Guest thats not true. Guest nine of the 10 hottest years in record have occurred in the century. Only one occurred in the 90s. In each decade, it has been hotter than the one before. We are on a trend if david is correct and we put more co2 in the hemisphere to 800 parts per million, we will have at least a 10 degree increase fahrenheit temperature rise which will devastate the world water supply and ability to feed itself. Guest he is not getting the science right. It is not guaranteed 10 degrees. It does not look like its possible to to be close to that. The most recent climate sensitivity and how co2 affects temperature predicts 2. 5three but really a likelihood of two degrees centigrade warming which would be three degrees fahrenheit. Dan pointed out that the 80s were warmer than the 70s but the warm has leveled off. We have more food than we ever had before. Guest you are absolutely wrong. We have nine of the 10 warmest years since the year 2003. How can you say that the warming trend is slowing down . It has leveled off. Guest this is the warming trend. This is from the National Climate assessment starting in the 1980s is hotter than the year before. How can you say the trend is leveling off . Guest i did not bring my chores but you can go to the noaa site. Guest that is the noaa site. Guest since 2000, it has leveled off. They have modified their estimates of how temperature is affected by co2. Host we are having this discussion in the wake of the first named hurricane of the season. Heres the headline from the guardian in canada. It is talking about the hurricane moving up the coast. For the next half hour or 40 minutes, we have a line for coastal residents if you want to talk about this subject. Otherwise, we have lines for republicans and democrats and independentss. Lets go to steve who has been waiting in charlotte, North Carolina on our line for democrats. Caller good morning, i would like to address mr. Kreutzer to let you know i am my highest in High School Biology we were given an example of Natural Selection with moths which is very basic. When the industrialized england in the early 19 century, the gray colored moths matched the tree trunks and when they became black, they died off. As you can see, the industrial pollution has changed the environment from the very beginning. Is there any science you can except . Guest i accept all kinds of science britt i took lots of science in college. I have that same example for evolution. Thats a great example because we dont have the soot like they had back then. Rings are cleaner than they were. Soot is not Carbon Dioxide. Its colorless and odorless and invisible. When you see pictures on tv shows, they show pictures of steam coming out of smokestacks employing that that is soot which it is not. If you want to believe in datace, look at the noaa and read the idc report from last fall ipc report from last fall. They are perpetrating fraud. They dont believe in science. Host from shreveport, louisiana, on our line for republicans. Caller good morning. Who pays you guys to spread all the propaganda about Climate Change . There never was no Climate Change. I dont believe it. Andve lived for 68 years nothing has changed. We have been down this road before about Climate Change. There is no Climate Change. Its nothing but a deal to control peoples lives to tell them what to drive and what to eat. You are all liars. Nobody cares. Let our guests discuss if they work for. Guest i work for a National Environmental organization working toward electing candidates who want to act on Climate Change and opposing those who either deny climate efforts towho oppose address this problem. The science has been settled. The American Academy of Natural Sciences came out with a report earlier this year that said the certainty about Climate Science theas certain as science linking smoking tobacco to lung disease and heart disease. It is that settled. There may be some people who are Climate Change deniers. More than half of republicans in congress denied Climate Science. That does not make it so. Unfortunately, we see signs around us including having each decade be hotter than the last, having nine of the 10 hottest years on record happening over the last dozen years, this signs point in one direction the National Climate assessments of Climate Change is here and when you deal with it now. Host and the Heritage Foundation . In climate and Energy Economics at the Heritage Foundation. The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank in washington. For a freepolicies and Civil Society and have 600,000 members that support us around the world and in the United States. Make the link that is very tenuous between the settled science which simply says that increases in co2 are likely to increase some warming. Its a Greenhouse Gas. All the skeptic scientists i know agree with that. The critical question, and this is the first part that does not prove this which is what dan tries to imply if co2 is a Greenhouse Gas and we are headed to catastrophic warming and further that these expensive policies that are caller was referring to will do almost nothing to mitigate this. What is driving it . There is a control aspects i disagree with the callers notion that we dont have Climate Change. To policies do much less affect climate than they do to affect Economic Activity. Guest you say that because, in fact, you propose a clean powerplant which reads 12 an economic benefits and reduces Climate Change for every one dollar we have to spend on cleaning up. Dirty power plants. 12 and benefits for one dollar in cost. Thats a pretty good investment ratio. At thewe have looked numbers at the Heritage Foundation. We have used the same code the use of the department of energy. We found that the values they are getting for the co2 abatement, how much benefit we get from that, are essentially entirely arbitrary. Benefitsy bring in co to justify every Clean Air Act and you look at the data they have not released it so other people can analyze it there are studies they are ignoring that should dramatically lower and some cases no affect from reducing some of these pollutants which are not co2. Guest if you clean up dirty plants, you get rid of soot and tiny particles and get rid of acid rain and small and big pollutants of there is big healthcare benefits. Lessan reduce 150,000 asthma attacks on children. 6000 premature deaths every year. Guest based on the sacred signs that people talk about, not based on other studies that are coming out host its a topic that generates a lot of passion and interest and we have a lot of calls we want to get to. Michael is in orleans, louisiana on our line for independents. Caller good day. Just so you know, im not talking from a hat. In 1971i studied with an environmental scientist britt we knew back then that anything we might find would be contradictory or for harmful to corporations and government and that would be manipulated. As pertaining to mr. Weiss, his predictions would probably more credible if the predictions have come true in the past. Hugere two programs governmentfunded programs rertaining directly to the wbe one of them is called harp geother one is called engineering. These two programs are directly involved with weather manipulation. Anytime anyme that of these socalled experts get together that we never hear anything about harp or geoengineering which directly affects climate, weather, longterm and shortterm. Lets see if our guests want to address that topic. Guest i would note that so far early toseem to be up call us. We need some women callers. Second, Climate Change has been the most studied scientific problem in the history of modern humankind. International panel on Climate Change that david refers to. There is the National Climate assessment. Academy the american for the advancement of scientists, the National Academy of sciences and many other Prestigious Science institutes and they all find the same thing. Scientist, alimate named Richard Mueller in california who is a Climate Science skeptic who received money from the Koch Brothers foundation and it some analysis of temperature data and concluded that Global Warming was real and the estimates were correct. He concluded humans are almost entirely because. This is a professor who was a former Climate Science skeptic. All the sciences, not economists, all the scientists and all the signs point in one direction. Just like we know that smoking causes lung disease and heart disease, we know that burning fossil fuels and releasing other climate pollutants like methane worm up the atmosphere causing Climate Change responsible for temperature rise and for a link to extreme weather. Guest weve been through the extreme weather link that does not exist. We find that the scientists settled on the most innocuous and least controversial thing just simply that co2 is a Greenhouse Gas. Step to say it is leading to catastrophic warming is very controversial. We have lots of scientists pat michaels at cato and president of the state Climate College association guest and a leading smoking denier. Guest ok guest is a climatologist. He is a climatologist. Ever attack the science. He always attacks the person. Its all right. Host what makes somebody a climate scientist skeptic . Guest that we are heading to catastrophe. I have heard these catastrophe stores all my life and i have an allergic reaction to them. We were supposed to the president s science advisor predicted mass starvation by the end of the last century and is now predicting by the end of the century. We were not going to be able to feed people. We were not going to resources and run out of oil by 1985 and it looks like we are producing more oil than we have ever produced in the world. Guest we are producing more than i have in the last 25 years. Guest no, the world is producing more oil than it has ever produced. We have a line for coastal residents. Caller good morning, i am 68 years old. Im down here on the edge of the water in florida. I have seen the difference in the last 15 years. The weather is changing. The people that can sit on that board up there and deny that they can take millions of the earth oil out of then changed to a liquid and burn it and put it into a gas into the sky and say it is not going to affect this earth you show your ignorance. Guest no, no, hear theseed when i 60yearolds saying they are old. I am in my 60s now. 60 years young. Even 68 is not long in geologic terms. Everybody admits that the weather and Climate Changes, things go up and down. Years is not long enough perspective to tell us whats going to be happening in 300 years. Host mobile, alabama is next on our line for republicans. Caller good morning, one of the the farmingys that will evaporate the water out of the oceans. True, what is causing the rise in the level of water at the seashore . I would like somebody to explain to me what the scientific reaction is for the Carbon Dioxide getting up in the air . What is the first thing that the Global Warming people are claiming happens . Thats a great question and thanks for being our first female caller. The Carbon Dioxide pollution and trappedimate pollutants in the heat that would otherwise escape into the upper atmosphere. Because it traps and the heat, it leads to warmer land temperatures and warmer ocean temperatures. We have had nine of the hottest years on record in the last 10 you years. The reason why we will have Sea Level Rises because what is happening is the glaciers in the arctic and to a lesser extent in the antarctic are melting. Its like when you melting ice cube in a drink. The water level rises in your glass. Just a couple of weeks ago, there was a meeting in norfolk, virginia with republicans and democrats trying to figure out what they can do to norfolk and newport news to keep them from being flooded so often because of Sea Level Rise is already impacting those communities. The republican congressman that participated is not is a Climate Science denier or it he knows that the climate is changing in his district because he sees it because of the flooding increasing. Guest the science is a little bit wrong there. Yource cube melting in glass does not change the level of the water. The glaciers are melting in some places and the exaggerated stories and previous ipc report were laughable and have been retracted. The main reason Sea Level Rises is because of the warming of the ocean. There is additional water coming into it as well. The dramatic level of Sea Level Rise, we are not on trend. The trend is been fairly constant but even if we were, the Climate Action plan does not do anything. You need plan b like two or three that will not change it. What we are headed for is about one foot of Sea Level Rise at best. Host the Climate Action plan is the plan the president obama proposed about a year ago and has been putting into effect rate what is the status of that . Guest he has been implementing many aspects of and propose the clean power plant last month. Its not the last step. Its the first step. If you have cancer and you have your tumor removed, that is not the end of your treatment. You need to do other things to make sure it does not come back. Likewise, we need to reduce Carbon Pollution from our power plants. Its the largest source of pollution in the United States and we need to get other nations to do the same. Some have done so in summer making postals to do so. We need everybody including the u. S. To do more. Us as the first up, not the last step. This is the first step, not the last step. This is the beginning and if we dont act, we will sue the worst impact within 35 years. We are already expecting sea level rising in norfolk for example. This is by hundreds of scientists, not economists. Host emily is on our line for independents. Caller good morning, i disagree with mr. Weiss. Guest how could you . Caller you keep repeating yourself. I read an urkel in a science that,ne and after i read i pursued it on the internet. Late 1998 or so, up until today, we have been having massive earthquakes. In that magazine and on the internet, everything you are talking about, mr. Weiss, is what earthquakes can produce. Has tilted on its access 27. 3 degrees since 2007 from all the terrible earthquakes we had. We tilted for the northeast. Host you say you checked out the information on the internet. What sites do you trust to get your information . Caller i went and and i asked the question after i read the magazine. I dont know the name of the science magazine. After i read that, i checked it on the internet. Host no specific websites . Caller no, i just asked the question can you tell me this or that and i have been there many times over this. What is really sad about this is that our government, if you go on the internet, will not give you the information of how much we have tilted on our axis since 2007. The American Academy for the advancement of science which is the nations largest audio scientists believes that Climate Change is due to human activity and there is a similar consensus around it as there is the link between smoking tobacco, lung disease, and heart disease. Its interesting to note that there have been in some places an increase in earthquakes but there is some suggestion and the scientists are not clear that the increased use of hydraulic fracking to produce shale oil and gas may, and i say may, the links to that. In ohio and oklahoma this is prevalent but the science is not clear on this. Its something that needs further investigation. Host that something viewers can read about. Theres a story friday from the Washington Post. As dan said, the science is not clear on that but in are small andey mild earthquakes and typically come from reinject and the fluid. Scientists understand that. If there is already a fault, you can over pressurized. E. This is not causing a 27 degrees tilt which i dont think is happening on the earths axis. Dan talks about the settled science print the subtle science is that co2 is a Greenhouse Gas and does not go much beyond that. Ipcc is so unsettled they have to run dozens of models in each of those models, they run dozens of different origins because they dont know. For the projections dan is talking about, the science is not settled. It looks like we are not going to get close to those extent temperatures he is talking about. Host charlie in trenton, florida, on our line for democrats, good morning. Caller its a real interesting conversation this morning. I was reading an article the other day in newsweek, talking about the Ocean Acidification and the effect it will have. That mention what will happen agriculturally but what is happening in the oceans is really scary with most of the Carbon Dioxide we produce is getting absorbed by the ocean water and is forming carbonic acid which is dissolving the shellfish, the fish that are made of calcium carbonate. That is not good for our shellfish. People who like lobster and crab will not like that. There is lots of dead zones and a lot of plankton and algae blooms that are killing a lot of seafood. More problems will arise from not having enough food in the ocean to eat that we depend on in the near future. Also, i wanted to mention its crazy not to be going after the renewable energies. To continue doing the stuff we are doing to try to keep going with oil, that approaches absurdity. They are trying to run a pipeline through our cornfields in the midwest, trying to drill oil in the ocean that ends up spilling and getting over the beaches, trying to frack that is causing the earthquakes. I guarantee that sooner or later there will be a major earthquake that will happen and people will finally wake up to that stuff. Host where does the Heritage Foundation stand on Renewable Energy and efforts by the Obama Administration . Guest i dont speak for the Heritage Foundation, i speak for myself as an independent analyst. We dont want to stop any of this. What we find is when the government gets in and starts mandating different aechnologies, we get solyndr and they point to spain which is virtually bankrupted itself trying to shift to quickly to unaffordable windmill and solar power. Issolyndra . Guest that was the firm that received about half 1 billion in guaranteed loans from the treasury to produce supposedly an Innovative Solar panel and they did not sell well, they went bankrupt and we lost close to half 1 billion. When the government gets involved, we see the money going to the wrong place. When they see people making andsions on their own husbanding their own money to get a return from their own investments that they make, that is where we see progress. Guest the government is already involved. Big Oil Companies get an annual 4 billion in tax subsidies. According to the nuclear industry, over the last 50 years, the oil and gas industry has gotten about half of all government subsidies invested in energy. Renewable electricity is here and its real. Germany had 75 of its electricity from renewables. The state of iowa gets more than and south dakota get more than a quarter of their electricity from wind power in texas gets more than 10 . Its here and we need to continue those investments and shift away from dirty coal and towards cleaner forms of energy. Why did germany leave the renewables turned off if they are getting 80 . Wind is famous for providing its peak power when you have the least need for it. In germany, they have gotten subsidiesnomenal which is driven to the price of electricity. They paid about three times what we pay. Theres a risk of losing their Industrial Base because of this insane push toward unaffordable renewables. Guest we are doing it in iowa and south dakota and texas. Guest the taxpayers are paying for it. I dont want to subsidize Oil Companies, by the way. Of that isjority from something called section 199 tex a Tax Deduction which all manufacturers get. When the irs do their calculations, they call it a subsidy. The winner gets a greater subsidy. So many people considered manufacturing that includes new newspaper produces. Guest 199 was passed to keep manufacturing in the u. S. The Oil Companies lobby at the last minute to include it into the law. Exxon cannot pick up an oil field and moved to france like you can with a normal manufacturing facility. New york times going to europe . Its not an oil subsidy. There are some that and we should get rid of them. Host lets go to chicago, illinois, on our line for republicans, good morning. Morning, its important to watch what people do rather than what they say. There are alarmists out there who say that the seas will rise 20 feet tomorrow or next week or by the end of this decade. If they really believed that, they would advocate for the only Energy Source that we have those capable of producing enough electricity immediately with no Greenhouse Gases and that is nuclear energy. We should have a Massive Nuclear power plant Building Program immediately if these gentlemen believe what they say. It mr. Believes weiss, do you support a Massive Nuclear power plant Building Program or are you a climate solution denier . Guest there are many alternatives to provide electricity. Wind, sun, natural gas is produced cleanly can be a bridge fuel. We need to work on storing electricity. Correctly,inted out we can store electricity generated intermittently. The problem with Nuclear Power nucleareople who killed power is wall street. Its too risky and investment. If we did this, it would to be paid for by american taxpayers. Wall street will not invest in it. Under president obama, we have invested in the first two Nuclear Reactors in over 30 years that are being built in georgia. But there is not much interest otherwise. Theres millions of dollars in subsidies waiting to be taken by Nuclear Power plants but nobody wants to build them because they are too expensive. It would take at least 15 years to complete one. Guest we probably agree that we should not do a heavy Subsidy Program for nuclear. What he forgets to point out is that wall street would be running as fast as they cut away from wind and solar was not for the heavy subsidies of wind and solar. The wind Power Producers get a subsidy equal to 50 or more of the wholesale price. No other Energy Producer except for solar gets anything close to that. They usually sell it to someone like Goldman Sachs and thats how they get their money. We are subsidizing the wall street companies. What we could do for nuclear is we could try to come up with a streamlined regulatory structure to allow the new Nuclear Technologies that will be much safer and wont require 10 billion of investment. As it is now, the regulatory structure in washington is incapable of certifying whether those things meet the safety standards. I think we can talk about a program Nuclear Program that does not depend on a massive multibilliondollar subsidy for the exact same technology we already have. Host we have a line for coastal residents lets go to that line in st. Petersburg, florida. Caller good morning. It is remarkable to listen to two very intelligent gentleman. Guest there are three of us here. Guest which one are you leaving out . I dont want to know. [laughter] caller we like the moderator. You two gentlemen are incredibly well read and its fun but if you cut through the spin, for us out here, its a bit of a problem. I live in st. Petersburg obviously. If a hurricane comes through here, we are buried in 25 feet of water. Spin, whathrough the economy down to is our causing Global Warming for profit . To curtailoing Economic Activity to protect the beaches and the climate . Thats kind of scary because we just dont believe anyone. Those of us impacted by this and its very difficult to believe that the gentleman from the Heritage Foundation would accept anything that mr. Weiss is saying on Nuclear Power as an example but they both kind of agree it was not a good idea, but some of the renewables. We see people i am honestly giving you the view of us out here. Andee people like al gore eventually president obama when he leaves office, they will make a fortune on Climate Change in one way or another. We just dont accept that. At the same time, i cannot boarde that people at the of exxon get up and figure out how they can screw us by fracking and doing whatever can be done to increase oil production. We just dont believe either side of the issue. If we can cut through the spin and get to the native intelligence and the rating that mr. Weiss has done and mr. Kreutzer has done as citizens, i think we would be better off. Host he brings up the economics of this. At studied economics James Madison university. Guest its a great place. I moved on and came up here and its been pretty exciting. Host what about the economics he brings up . Guest you can go first. Guest you are right, we have to look at what benefit we get from cutting the Economic Activity. Thats how i let off earlier in the hour. I say we should have a sticker like we have on the windows of cars that says how much this will cost and what benefits will we get and we will find that all , howroposals, add them up much benefit do we get in terms of moderated temperature which is the driver of these terrible things, supposedly. It turns out you dont get much. It is because indonesia, india, china, brazil they dont like being poor and i dont blame them. They want Economic Growth as well. Was also pointed out by another caller that right now, the renewables just are not ready to provide the energy they need. Renewables can do a great job. You can have solar cells in remote places to charge cell phones and things like that. We have had windmills pumping water out of wells for centuries. I hope we have improved versions of all of these things coming down the road. The Economic Impact can be fairly severe and it can swamp the benefits youre likely to get even if you believe the panel on Climate Change. Guest thanks for your question. Lets take a step back im not a scientist so i like to listen to scientists. I would check out the National Climate assessment put together by hundreds of scientists. And that will tell you about the impact of Climate Change and the u. S. When it comes to economics, every time we have imposed pollution restrictions, the people who have been against him says it will cost thousands and thousands of jobs and cost billions of dollars. Every time, they have been wrong. For example, a couple of years ago, the chamber of commerce said that if we adopted controls to reduce the mercury pollution that comes from burning coal in power plants, mercury, we will have rolling blackouts across the United States. They said that in 2011 and we are implementing that law we have not had rolling blackouts print when we invest in new technologies that create jobs, look across the country iowa is getting and south dakota are getting more than 1 4 of their energy. By the end of the decade, colorado will get 1 4 of their energy and california will get 1 3. The economy is growing and we can do this together. Host james is in daytona beach, florida on our line for democrats, good morning. Morning, i would like to address my comments to david mainly. Dave, the powers to be that support oil, if they put as much effort into supporting wind energy and Nuclear Power, i believe it would produce a whole lot more energy than you said they are producing. If you put as much effort into that as you do fighting against it and supporting oil and coal. Once thatd more than the idea that the people that oppose Climate Change and dont ideave in it, its all an to put in peoples minds. Change peoples minds, you can say there is no Climate Change. Planieve that is the game for the people who just want to keep oil and coal and Nuclear Power going. Thats all i have to say. Guest what we want is for people to have a better life and a better standard of living and be able to make their own choices on how to get there and it has worked well so far. The oil and Gas Companies want to provide Affordable Energy to people. If the winds and solar people can do it more cheaply, go for it but they cannot. Its a fairytale to believe the proposition that if you force technologies that are unaffordable that creates jobs. Yes, where you subsidize them you can create jobs. The analogy would be to tear the boards out of the wall so we can have a fire because its cold outside. If you tear the walls down, it will get colder in the house. They say is warm by the fireplace. Were you subsidize the windmills, you will get employment. We look at net employment and economists, we had a panel looking at Climate Policy at the Heritage Foundation a few years ago and we had comments from the liberal Brookings Institution and from the Congressional Budget Office and from the epa, the department of energy none of them said the Climate Policies would increase employment and the argument was over how much it would reduce employment rate we want Affordable Energy. That would allow people to make their own choices and his people want to invest in alternative technologies, i am in favor of that the dont force me to buy it. Is in emeryville, illinois on our line for democrats, good morning. Your testsill bet are both citydwellers, arent they . [laughter] guest we are now. Caller i live out in the country. I live on a farm. We just live with the weather. Every what a is trying to change everything. Farmers cannot change the weather. They just live with it. We have had 2, 3 kind of dry years and this year is the most beautiful, perfect growing season i have ever seen. Im looking out the window now and ive got cornstalks that have two ears on each stock amazing the price will probably plummet on corn but thats ok. This beautiful to see this. How do you control the wind . For example, my nephew has been in beijing, china twice this year. He told me theyve got so many cranes building factories for jobs that we dont have anymore and people in some cities have to wear masks because it is so polluted. When he first started going many years ago on business, people were riding bicycles. He said it was a pleasure to see that. They all want cars. Today they are driving cars. India, pakistan they are doing the same thing. You cannot control that but they are not controlling their pollution so what are you going to do to prevent the wind from lowing it this way while we are going through all these measures . Guest first of all, both david and i are big bicyclists. We are doing our part. Its great that youre having a great crop year. Doingnds like you are better but theres other parts of the country that are in sustained drought like in the southwest along the Colorado River basin. In nevada, they are worried about the drought they are that the levels of lake mead which provides Drinking Water to las vegas may be so low that the intake pipes may be above water in the next year or so. Thats a crisis there. Not every place is as fortunate this year as you. This is the beginning of the process. We need to clean up our power plant pollution that will provide lots of benefits to us and reduce asthma attacks and premature death. We also need to get other countries to reduce and cleanup as well. China has horrible problems. Theyve got to do with that by having more pollution standards for their cars and their coalfired power plants. We got to Work Together and start here first. His story, we are the biggest polluter and we need to act first and others will go along. Guest i did live in the country when i went tojmu and i loved it. I had to come to the city to take this job. The drought that daniel is talking about, that is not unprecedented. Studies have shown that in the past there have been droughts that have lasted centuries. It can be pretty scary. It is not legitimate to blame this on Climate Change and say this is what we will get. Thank you for pointing out that the farmers, good weather or bad weather, we are getting more and more few from more more food from fewer acres. Thank you to both our guests. Up next, Benjamin Jensen of American University will talk about the latest from iraq and later we break down a new Pew Research Study on Political Polarization in the United States but first, all weekend long, we are exporting the history and literary life of the mississippi capital of jackson in our cspan cities tour that continues on booktv and American History tv. 2 p. M. Today, arid jackson our jackson coverage on cspan two. Mississippi based organizations we have here in jackson was the center. There were offices all around the state. The weight freedom summer work as they brought activists from mississippi and sent them to small towns around the state. It was kind of a Community Organizing model. You have civil rights volunteers, civil rights workers fanned out around the state and all of that process was headquartered here in jackson. Some estimates over half of the white civil rights workers came from the north. They often said that if everyone is not free in this country then no one is free. Although what was happening here did not affect them personally, they really felt like they needed to do what they could to help cure this injustice. Its sad to admit that it was the whiteness that helped attract the attention. There were other africanamerican activist that have been murdered that did not attract the same amount of national attention. When the three workers went missing, it was a Huge National issue. All the media came down here to search for them. When their bodies were finally found, it was sort of a somber sign of the significance of the work and the danger that all these activists endured. Book tvke sure to watch and American History tv this weekend as we feature the literary life of jackson, mississippi and catch our videos from our cities tour and go to www. Cspan. Org local content. We now return to the topic of iraq and that countrys future. We are joined by then jim and jensen from American University by Benjamin Jensen. Lets start with the outlook on the future of iraq with militants proclaiming Islamic State in iraq and syria and leaders of iraq, that kurdish is going from a referendum is calling for a referendum. Is it possible iraq could break into three Different Countries . Thats a great question and on the ground, iraq is already broken into up to three countries. For a Long Time Coming you had the kurds having a defective state in the north and this got stronger as they searched for exports further crude oil. Toy grew closer and closer turkey that has energy demands. Independente facto kurdish governing area that is increasingly distant from baghdad. With the advance of isil is sunni tribes in a negative coalition, groups opposed to a malakidominated shiite government and baghdad formally controlling formerly formally controlling territories but it is gaining significant pace as they marched to encircle baghdad and established itself by declaring a califet,. Host there is a full page spread them the Washington Post, how we found maliki and lost iraq. Thats the name of the piece. What is your take on the future of maliki . Guest that is a must read piece. It really walks you through the detailed history of how the complex politics of how you find local leaders and groom them when you are involved in a clump in a complex counterinsurgency mission and how the facts on the ground and rapidly shift. That story draws out that mailiki was eric ally at one point. This was our ally at one point. Maliki rapidly turned to iran. In effect, iran exerts significantly more influence over him than the United States could ever dream of asserting. This causes a much more difficult problem. If its a regional war, what side you choose . There are no good options for the United States right now. Host the piece ends by saying what is the u. S. Role in iraq right now . Whats your outlook of what the u. S. Needs to do to help iraq . Move tof you actually support malik he under the auspices of maintaining a stable iraq, and a rack all iraqi citizens, that thats a United States and these factions need willrk out maliki somehow become more inclusive but the article points out that that is a dream. Its not likely to come to fruition. You have the dilemma that any action taken to support maliki will only further alienate sunnis and possibly kurds. Supporting him is not necessarily an option. Going against them is not necessarily an option because who do you support . If you overtly support the kurds, you have the possibility of the iraq he state formally cracking into three states and that has a huge precedents for syria. Who do you support on the sunni side . The fact that that site has been crushed and driven to a gymnast cap does not present a viable individual to present himself. Host is this one of the wars within the wars that you have written about before . Thewrote about that with battle of falluja earlier this year. Does it apply to them . Guest absolutely, iraq is a microcosm for the larger struggle playing out for the future of the middle east. This is a great power political game that pits the gold states against iran the gulf states against iran. In syria and increasingly the fight in iraq is not about syria or iraq its about iran and about containing iran. That is the other side of the dilemma. Has ongoingtates diplomatic efforts to try to come to a comprehensive nuclear dear with iran. How to come to a deal with iran when you are simultaneously backing groups that are fighting iranian proxies in syria and you have iranian volunteers . We had the first iranian officer this week pop up dead fighting to defend the shrine. How do you negotiate with iran for a larger comprehensive nuclear deal while also seeing iran formalize its military commitments in iraq and fighting in syria . Host we are talking with Benjamin Jensen from American University school of international service. Take your calls and comments as we talk about iraq and the future of iraq. The phone lines are open fromll start with dave rome, georgia on our line for independents. Caller good morning and thank you. We never talk about the iraq war being alive. The surge was a failure and thats the cause of the problem. During the surge, billions of dollars was paid to these sunnis. Once these people left and they stop paying them, all of this began to rise up again. The United States did not actually win the surge. The surge was won by the sunni awakening, the same people disgruntled by what al malik is doing. We headed out billions of dollars in these people were giving out money like candy. Can you respond to what happened during the surge and how much money was paid out to these people . How do you think these people are going to maintain this without this money . Al maliki took the money out. Call thank you for that and helping us think about the complex strategic history of the search. At one level, you are slightly wrong in that the surge was an initial success. The immediate goal of the surge was to put sufficient troop strength on the ground to enable some type of larger political solution. Separate from the surge but closely linked with the idea of thealambar awakening was an the status quo. To call the sunni tribes the same as the isil is a bit of a misnomer. You are highlighting the complexity in modern war. Ever rapidly shifting alliances on the ground that we find ourselves forced to deal with now even though we are technically out of iraq. Is upwards possibly of 600 u. S. Servicemen on the ground and we are establishing joint Operation Centers and most of the mission is advisory and assessments to figure out what the heck can we do and we can support and how to generate intelligence. Please note that these are different groups but the problems the same. When you start to put cash into a battlefield and start to actually try to make alliances, the fight against your enemies, it will blow up in your face occasionally. Host professor jensen joining us this morning. Michael is up next in biloxi, mississippi. Why would we go against isis when they refused to be associated with al qaeda . Depend on what you mean by go against them, if you mean deploying u. S. Brigade teams to control the battle on iraq i would have a trouble involving that level of voluntarily, involvement but if you mean turning the attention of a systematic high profile targeting mission in afghanistan where we use intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance assets on the air to identify leaders, we also go after their money with treasury, i think that clearly is already happening with isil and needs to escalate, these individuals had european passports, american passports and the most Cohesive Group that we have seen. They makin make al qaeda at moms look like amateurs. They produce corporate brochures. This is a group that will cause strategic problems for the region and the United States. After making a rare public speech and a video of him showing up of that speech, calling on the men in mosul to escalate the holy war and a picture of him from the Washington Post story this morning on the topic. On isis, and the twitter, all of the trouble, how was isis able to do what they have done. This is a great question and i think you are to step out of iraq and away from isil and isis, it is really iraq, really the Islamic State in iraq and greater syria which tells you about their aspirations and think about modern warfare. And just like you are able to use computers, accessible servers, basically information calls are cheap to companies for billions of dollars, the same thing is happening in warfare. Groups like isil can actually grow rapidly because they can tap into the Information Technologies and spread their message, they can generate momentum, so i dont think it is that the Intelligence Community wasnt tracking them. I think what happened is that they were caught by surprise by the magnitude in which they rose. We have been talking to the professor about the Strategic Issues at play and want to bring in the review on, view on the ground in iraq, the wall street journal middle east correspondent matt bradley joins us on the phone this morning. Good morning to you. Good morning. I want to get from you the latest on iraqs forming a new government and new coalition government. P serious meetings going on the last couple of days if you recall last week, a spectacular failure. More than half of the delegates walking out. It doesnt seem as though anybody is all that much closer. The negotiations are still on going. They are meeting again on tuesday, and i think we can expect that on tuesday, they will once again fail to nominate new Parliament Speaker or Prime Minister. What is the ticking clock here . When have they said they heeded to form this government by and what is the United States doing in this process . Well, we dont know exactly what the United States is doing. I think the u. S. Is certainly trying to mediate between all of the different sides and the u. S. Policy make versus made it clear, or president obama has made it clear they would like to see now him leave office, especially since so many, even among malikis coal lissists, is the shia majority in iraq, so i think that the United States government is really trying to push along the process of getting maliki to leave, even though he would argue he has an electorial, basically a mandate because he was given, his block was given the most votes in the previous election on april 30th. And, matt bradley, we have been talking with professor jenison about the strategic situation in iraq. What the latest on the security situation in iraq, in baghdad itself and how close, isis is to the capital . First of all, the group has changed its name, announce add caliphate abu bark, the, barclays premier league. So it is now kind of the artist formerly known as isis and now just the Islamic State, he declared it a caliphate so the isis term is somewhat out of date but the baghdad situation. There really is no violence in central baghdad at the moment, it is quite quiet here. And it has been for quite some time. Outside of the city, on the periphery, in some of the more volatile neighborhoods, there is frequent violence. There are bombings, there are attacks and there are there are killings, there is the kind of ethnic killings that we saw in the 2006, 2007 conflict, when the country was almost torn apart by sectarian divisions. So we are starting to see that again on a much more smaller scale, where sunni militants are kidnapping and killing shiites and shiites are doing the same. Matt bradley correspondent with the wall street journal, i appreciate you giving us an update on the situation on the ground this morning. Thank you. Professor jensen he is talking about baghdad itself there. Is baghdad secure at this snoint do you think baghdad is still under threat from the Islamic State . Well, baghdad is insecure politically and thats the larger problem that i think matt was doing a phenomenal job of pointing out the kind of political crisis that is really driving a lot of this behind the scenes, so in terms of physical security, baghdad in its center is probably secure, but on its periphery you have sectarian violence, you have over the last few years, large scale symptomatic terrorist attacks that occur in baghdad and if you actually look at the Islamic State and their advance to iraq you see that the fight will not necessarily be as a kind of large decisive napoleonic battle in baghdad itself, but it is going to be the series of attacks on the periphery on key roads leading to baghdad which the Islamic State can prove it can control territory and try to consolidate its gains, thats what we need to watch for. And how much of the security and the situation is going to depend on the shiite militias as opposed to the Iraqi Military itself . Well, who can say, . Right now, if our fear is ultimately sectarian civil war in iraq which is looks like is happening the idea of shiites militias anything for the army does not bode well for the future of the conflict. In fact, all it will tend to do is increase this negative coalition where the Islamic State members can actually partner with other sunni groups, whether it is tribal groups or even moderate extremist groups, much less secular groups and that negative coalition forms and deepens only creates a starker fault line for the civil war. Back to the phones. Roy is waiting in long view texas, good morning, roy. Good morning to you. Go ahead, roy. Yes, i was talking about the saudis, having those airplanes, the iraqis. We went in there i believe we went in there for the oil because it was the second largest producer of oil. It is producing now 4 Million Barrels a day, and then cheney was over at halliburton and of course halliburton got the contract to get the oil and did something that i recognized, old bin ladens family was one of the stockholders of bushs oil company. Thank you. There are concerns about how oil has played into the storyline of u. S. Involvement in the middle east in the past decade o orr so. Roy, thank you for your call and lets kind of step back and talk about the political economy of violence. To what extent is a very important commodity like oil driving the type of strategic choices whether by state Decision Makers or actually insurgent groups on the ground. I tend to think that oil plays less of a role than a lot of people would argue for. And, in fact, the Global Energy politics we see now, the u. S. Is really shaping up to be the kind of hydrocarbon, both gas and Oil Superpower so the idea that oil would draw the u. S. Back into a conflict in the middle east in a direct sense would imply there is some larger conspiracy of Energy Companies that are influencing political decisions beyond what we would expect in standard lobbying. So i just dont see that. Now, where oil is an issue is the more conflict there is and the closer it gets to some of these large refineries that the Islamic State has directly targeted it does cause an increase in the price of oil. And as you cause an increase in the price of oil that will cause a lot of ripples throughout the region, unfortunately, causes some will let, some unsavory states to make money and Decision Makers in europe to have to pay closer attention because they are more dependent to oil in the middle east than u. S. Is. It could influence countries like japan who are dependent on oil, but the oil driving the u. S. Intervention and deciding how the u. S. Will enter, intervene right now, i just dont see it. Lets go to florida on our line for democrats, good morning. Good morning. And good morning, dr. Jensen. I am editor in chief of the american reporter, which is the oldest online daily newspaper in the world. We started in 1995 and i am a former Foreign Correspondent for the Village Voice in places Like Northern ireland, iran, india, pakistan, vietnam and the philippines. I feel very strongly that the United States Strategic Interests in this whole affair, the creation of a caliphate and the consequences of it, ought to be very limited. I believe that our principal objective ought to be to protect our embassy, to get our personnel out of iraq and to allow this sectarian civil war to proceed as it will. I wrote an article in 19 i am sorry, in 2009, the war against the caliphate, talking about the desire of extremist elements, including extremist, moderates as mr. Jensen recently mentioned. I dont know what an extremist moderate is, to start a caliphate, and the probability of their forming a caliphate. And it is just essential, i think, that we allow ourselves to step back from this entire environment and say, what is our real interest there . Why should we spend more of our, quote, treasure, unquote, and our blood, our human lives in this arena. Joe, lets let professor jensen address some of those questions. Well, thank you for your call and i think that what you are really talking about is important for everyone, is the exact debate i am sure is happening in the white house. I am sure there are quite a few people on the National Security council and in the Defense Department that are really trying to step back and ask, what actually are the u. S. Interests and somehow should the devon definition of those interests be put into concrete policy objectives. You are right, strength is aa good thing and to be fair that is what is being shown. We sent folks on an assessment mission, to actually determine what is actually going on on the ground, are Iraqi Security force units really dissolving like we are hearing these erie reports of or actually standing and fighting . This is also being accompanied by standing up joint Operation Center where advisors can work on iraq military force ms. The military campaign but the more important actions are not military but in the area of diplomacy is this pressure on maliki and trying to see if we can engineer an exit from maliki, if you can find a better more inclusive voice. And that is where that term, i didnt really say extremist moderates, i said moderates tend to be pushed toward the extreme because they form negative coalition, and as you have this sectarian violence on the ground it crowds out the space for moderates. To be a moderate in iraq right now is probably a pretty dangerous thing. People start to choose sides and that is the nastiness of war on the ground and i am sure you saw that in the places you served. We are talking to professor jensen, noted also an officer in the u. S. Army reserves, where were you deployed . So my two deployments with were in afghanistan and kosovo. And when was that . I served in kosovo in 2006 and 2007, and afghanistan in 2010, 2011 time frame. And we have got professor yen 7 wit with us for the next pen minute or so and try to get as many of your calls as we can. Eric is waiting in clinton, missouri on the line for republicans, good morning. Good morning, sir. I have what i have to say is the situation as it is happening now in iraq and has happened in countries like libya and syria and some of the other places where the president handled the situation i am glad our country is suffering now. Unemployment people have to survive on food stamps. Our money, we are in debt. Our money is very limited, we are in debt up to our necks. I will never see the outcome of this. I am 86. I was an officer in the greek army and i served in korea with the greek battalion. There is no solution right now about how to handle this situation in iraq. Are you saying the best thing to do is to not get more involved . Well, we should have never left all of our troops and shouldnt have announced to the enemy that we were leaving there. Professor jensen, on how the u. S. Left iraq and whether it should be done, should have been done differently. Well, i think it is always easy to armchair quarterback and look back in the past and say we should have done this, we should have done that, the one truism of politics is, especially strategy, is these decisions are made in fog and friction, these decisions are made with constant pressures and incomplete information, time pressure, and what i hear eric talking about is a really important dilemma right now. We when the president talked to his advisors the strategic divisions around iraq are not just be made with a an eye on iq but be made with whether or not those individuals who ran a campaign about getting out of iraq are willing to actually go back into iraq. It will be made with questions about is america just recovering from one of the largest recessions in our history really willing to commit blood and treasure in another middle Eastern Campaign . These are the types of decisions, these are the type of historical anchors that change how any individual will look at that problem. It is not just a simple, rational calculation, and i think that is important to consider here. I think it puts really upper limits on the options being talked about with respect to iraq. It really takes off the table large scale military intervention, bearing some further catastrophe. What about military air vibes . Military air strikes are an interesting option but we have to remember it is not just that simple. We kind of get the strange view of military ai air strikes that started with the gulf car and continued in kosovo somehow you put a plane in the sky and it magically hits whatever it wants to but any successful series of military air strikes will require an indepth intelligence campaign possibly including inserting assets on the ground to laser designate targets and develop the type of intelligence information. You saw this with the israeli incursion in gaza. Not just as simple as shoot things from a plane. You have to build the intelligence, targeting information to hit multiple targets successively if you are going to actually disrupt your adversary and doesnt seem like the Assessment Team we have in iraq is really meant to do that right now. I am sure they have drones and the drones are probably queuing targets, possibly for the Iraqi Military, a person they dont know what the mission is. But to actually engage in a series of air strikes is probably going to require more commitment than we realize. And it is, if you want to be successful. If you just want to launch a few guided missiles for the media that is easy but if you want the air campaign to actually have the possibility of degrading the Islamic State that is a different story. We showed the picture of an f16 fighter built for Iraq Air Force flying in a Training Mission in fort worth in may, that story from the Washington Post from over the weekend. Lets go to amat in prairie, minnesota, on the line for independents. Thank you. Isis is a symptom of the problem. In fixing the rob we need to go back to the source. Saudi arabia, which is the mother of all else in the region. It is a dictatorship monarchy and never, ever let a democratic government with all of the oil be formed as one of its neighbors. Provided that isis is an adherent to the wahabi faith which is only practiced in saudi arabia, we really, really need to look closely at the role of saudi arabia, thank you. Mr. Jensen, professor jensen on the role of saudi arabia. That doesnt, that question doesnt surprise me, we know the folks there are smarter. Yes there is a proxy war going on for the heart of the middle east. Now the extent to which saudi funds are directly flowing to the Islamic State is not we dont really have a clear picture on that. In fact, you are right, the greatest threat that saudi arabia has used in the middle is a basically rising power of iran, that is something the a sudden diswant to check, but there are, their other greatest fear is an islamic revolt that challenges the legitimacy of the house of saud and delegitimatize their power to the thrown and the problem they will run into, the caliphate actually threatens their religious legitimacy. The saudis have even fewer strategic options. If they back the Islamic State overtly against iran in iraq they could undermine themselves at home the same way they were concerned after the support to the mujahedin caused a blowback in groups like al qaeda came back to the middle east trying to start an islamic yes revolut, so really it is just not the United States that has no good choices but actors like saudi arabia and even actors like jordan who have fewer resources to deal with the complex problems. Lets stay here he in washington, d. C. Where audi is waiting on the line for democrats. Audi, good morning. I just have a comment and a couple of questions. My comment is, i think it is really about time for america to really evaluate who our allies are in the middle east. I know we have this history with the iran in the revolution and the whole hostage situation but has iran actually threatened the United States physically on the ground . I know there is speculation about hezbollah trying to hire a cartel assassin in mexico to assassinate an ambassador, i dont know what to think about that. It seems pretty farfetched. Going back to the previous caller, why is saudi arabia considered more of a threat to the american wave, way of life and democracy in the middle east when you think about it saudi arabia is more of a theocracy than, the degree of social coercion and so forth. And my two questions are, to my previous comment, you know, is it time for america to kind of sit down and, with iran and help the think as solve the situation in iraq . There is not going to be a purely shiite or purely sunni state but by sitting down with iran and putting pressure on al maliki, you know, can you fault the situation in iraq to put in the sunnies politically and have some kind of compromise and the curds who dont want to be in iraq anymore but kurdistan. But that is my first question. Let professor jensen take the first question. Thank you for the great question and i want to go back and hit on your first question, really in terms of what i Call Security architecture. You are right. There is a larger Security Architecture, the United States diplomats and strategy gists really developed post world war ii into the cold war that look how you can establish regional order in the middle east. If you look back at that, the first attempt was to create Something Like nato for the middle east, it wasnt really that successful. And a big pillar of that was actually our relationship with iran at the time. The aaronian revolution upended that and really the Alliance Network shifted to focus more upon the gulf state support to the gulf states. We are definitely entering a moment where i am guessing there are senior questions among decision make in other words the United States about what the future Security Architecture should be in the middle east, who should the United States support as kind of an offshore balancer . What power do you need to back in the region . Because you are right you cant back everyone and i am sorry therthere are no good choices, comparing the good choice of iran to saudi arabia those are both potentially bad choices not in terms they are bad people in the state but each have local interests that will run contrary to what the United States wants. A peaceful middle east that is increasingly democratic, that ties in to a larger u. S. Order built around its global trade of goods. As you mentioned earlier reports coming out today of the iranian pilot killed in iraq, this was the first confirmation that 0 Iranian Forces are involved in the Iraqi Governments battle to repel the offensive by the Islamic State l is the report from todays Washington Post if you want to read more. Lets go to arthur in van der slooter give, pennsylvania on the line for independents, good morning. Good morning. Yes. I just wanted to, the last two callers said very good things i wanted to say as well so i probably wont say that stuff as well. But i just wanted to also say that i agree that there stay much, there isnt much the United States could or really can do especially militarily in iraq right now. One reason that, you know, the United States is, you know, on, you know usually has trouble in the middle east are trying to find, the goal is to have a peaceful middle east, what are the things that kind of prevent us from being a peace broker in the middle east is our relationship with israel. Not that i am saying we shouldnt support israel. But that, you know, there is something that makes , the, many dont appreciate our relationship with israel, but, you know, there is nothing really they can do about that. But one thing is is that i wanted to mention, you know, if one thing that they had before the iraq war, one thing that was in iraq that was essential for iraqi interests is they had a strong Central Government in the form of a dictator, of course it was, he was a upon search but thats not what they have now. Now you have this possibility of having a caliphate, which is, you know, a traditional Islamic State. Now, whether this person is legitimate or not i cant say. He is probably mor mohr legitime than the king of saudi arabia. Maybe not as legitimate as, you know, king hussein of jordan, but. You know, the arabs in general, in my opinion, democracy simply doesnt work. You need a monarchy. You need some sort of autocracy. Lets let professor jensen jump in. Well, arthur, thank you. I dont want to speak for what i think arabs need in terms of their form of government, especially after the 4th of july when americans made a decision that they didnt need a monarchy. We should let people figure out their own governing relationships around the world, but here in the middle east that presents a real problem and thats the problem, i think you are zeroing in to is that there really are few good choices, right . The process of democratization, whether you support it directly or indirectly through sponsoring Civil Society programs, growing up with kind of the watchtower, Civil Society that you kind of need to hav have the vibrant enr ans to happen will take decades and may or may not happen. It will happen in fits and starts just like it happened in fits and starts in the United States. Our problem though is that the near term expediency is always to back a straw man, you are a great power, you are all the way across the atlanta, you have interests there, better to back a strong man who will do your bidding if not always 100 percent than to have to get involved in the messy nature of democratic politics, much less the uncertainty about whether or not democracies will rise. So i dont want to talk about what i think arabs could have or shouldnt have, i think all people should define their own form of government a and as to the legitimacy of the Islamic State, the legitimacy of the caliphate is determined by religious scholars, not less by by voters so that is a whole other complicated questions. You talk about the leadership of iraq, here is onestory coming out of capitol hill and whether maliki should stay or go. Diane feinstein of california, the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee writing in her opinion, maliki must go, she writes in that piece from late last week, isis sill. Isil is fueled sectarian distrust, simply put, maliki needs to go. Diane feinstein, lets go to sausalito, california, on our line for democrats. Good morning, i do not. Good morning, what i am wondering is why is our president , barack obama, being flamed or a decision that has been brought about primarily. George bush during his administration to make an agreement to withdraw troops from iraq . And what in the world has become of us when we have decided that we are going to go and police peoples revolutions similar to the one that we have in the United States. Thats all i am asking. Professor jensen. Sure. I think we need as americans, it is easy to ge get caught up in d of how factious our politics have been, but i dont think that is the right lens to look look at it through. First george bush did not create sectarian violence in iraq. That existed long before even america was a country. So we cant really necessarily see clear causation there and for those who would blame president obama or not making the right choice or not pressuring enough the Iraqi Government to maintain forces, there are just so many open questions. I think it is the wrong lens to look at this through is blame bush or blame. , that is not going to get us anywhere. Where we can have a productive conversation is what an earlier caller said, lets clearly articulate, what are the longterm Strategic Interests in the middle east, given those interests what is the right type of network of alliances bases and relationships across all instruments of power, diplomatic, and in ill trito get to those interests and three, how do we know if that plan is working or failing and what is the backup plan . Get in one more call from alaska, on the line to republicans. Paul is waiting, paul, good morning. Good morning. I think you are going to have to go back to the bedrock problem here. Have you read Robert Spencer and the political incorrect guide to islam, if you have read richard mayberrys several books, one being the 1,000 year war, you will realize that islam is the problem. And islam has to be classified by the United States not as a religion but a cult. Professor jensen, the callers views on islam. Well, i think there is a tendency, again, to look at this problem through strictly the lens of religion is just as bad of an idea potentially as looking at it through the lens of american domestic politics in terms of republican and democrat. Islam is a religion over a billion adherents in the world and i tend to look at it like this. Religion is the pawn on the chessboard defined by politics. It is easy to define this all about religion but religion is a means to an end and the end is power, the end is influence. Each of these groups uses and abuses religion and this is true historically in many other conflicts to actually try to increase their power. So what is really at stake is not so much islam as a religion but how different conflict entrepreneurs manipulate islam as a religion, both shiites and sunnies to advance their own political interests. Benjamin jensen is a professor at American University school of international service, i appreciate you joining us this morning on the washington jowrl. Thank you for having me. Up next lets look at new Pew Research Study on Political Polarization in the United States. But first, an update of what is coming up on the sunday shows from Bobby Jackson at cspan radio. We begin airing the shows at 9 00 eastern, first up nbc meet the yes, sir at noon, David Gregory speaks with Homeland Security secretary jay johnson, idaho republican congressman Raul Labrador and former british Prime Minister tony blair, at 1 00 p. M. Eastern you will hear abc this week, George Stephanopoulos is the host and Texas Governor and possibly 2016 president ial candidate, rick perry. Also, roman Catholic Bishop, mark sights of el paso, texas. At 2 00 p. M. Fox news sunday, host Chris Wallace will talk the wyoming senator john brazos and democratic bob casey, also on that program, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee chair and California Republican darrell issa and ron do you rememberer, ambassador to the u. S. , 3 00 p. M. Cmn state of the union with host candy crawley and Texas Democratic representative henry cuellar, alan long the mayor of murrieta, california, also michelle howard, she is the navys first female fourstar general. And the sunday shows lineup concludes at 4 00 p. M. Eastern with bob schieffer, host of cbs face the nation as he speaks with the Senate Majority whip and illinois democrat dick durbin and Republican Senate john mccain of arizona and Lindsey Graham of south carolina, the sunday tv talk shows starting, here on cspan radio. Nationwide, xm satellite radio, channel 120, and online at cspan. Org. You can also listen with free apps for your iphone, android and plaque berry. 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So i tell this story about how i, whose every aspect of whose identity is in one way or another a threat to israel and my gender is male, my religious is muslim, my citizenship is american but my nationality is iranian, my ethnicity is persian, my culture is middle eastern, everything about me is sends off, you know, all the Warning Signals for israel, and so the experience of an iranian american single man trying to get through the airport in the 21st mother is a reminder to everyone that despite the way that globalization has brought us closer and has diminished the boundaries that separate us as nations, as ethnicities as people, as cultures, despite all of that, all you have to do is spend a few minutes trying to get through bengurion airport to remember that those divisions, the things that separate us are still very much alive. Best selling author and professor reza as lan will take your emails and tweets on islamic fundamentalist, the, fundamentalism and live for three hours today at noon eastern on book tvs indepth on cspan 2. Book tv, television for serious readers. Washington journal continues. For the last 20 migh 25 minuo this morning we will talk about a new Pew Research Center report that tries to get past the typical cast of red and blue and he is the director of Political Research at pew research to talk about that poll and mr. Dougherty first, explain what political type following is. Typeology is. It is a way to categorize the elect a frat that goes beyond republican versus democrat, try to organize the groups based on peoples values, not their partisanship. And how many groups, in your opinion, are there . Well, in our latest survey this is through our analysis, there are eight groups, seven main groups and one group we call political bystanders who arent registered and arent active in politics. And how did this survey work . Well, it is a survey of tip thousand people, and we have Many Political values and take 23 of those questions and do what is called a cluster analysis and separate the groups based on their values and attitudes. So lets start by going through the groups, they are sort of the partisan anchors of the group. Yes. And start on the republican side, the steadfast conservatives and the business conservatives, what is the difference between the two . Well, the business conservatives are very pro business as their name implies, the steadfast conservatives not so much so and in fact they are more conservative on social issues like homosexual as well there is a real divide over there and seeing it play out among some political politics currently. 12 percent of the. All of the groups are roughly the same size across the typeology. And the other partisan anchor here would be solid liberals. It is all about the name, i mean, they are liberal across the board, social issues, role of government, foreign policy, every issue. And the real interesting part about this poll for me is the less partisan, the less predictable parts of the electorate out there or the population out here in this type following typeology,. Lets start with young outsiders this is the most intriguing glowp the typeology because our Previous Research has shown and the voting patterns have shown millennials and younger xeres are kind of a democratic leaning cohort but this is a republican group, republican leaning group and pretty young, and so they agree with the Republican Party on the role of government, they prefer a Smaller Government but they take liberal views on social issues like homosexuality and legalization of marijuana. And three groups more democratic leaning, break down the differences between the hard pressed skeptics, the next generation left and the faith and freedom left. The faith and family. Yes. That is a classic Democratic Group we have been seeing largely minority group, conservative on some of these social issues, not in support of same sex marriage yet in the democratic coalition, again, large at this minority the hard pressed skeptics are very down scale and kind of financially distressed group. They also tend to lean democratic, but they are losing a little democratic identification overtime. And then the next generation left which is a young group of liberals, very liberal on the environment, on homosexuality, issues like that but have some reservations about the federal debt and the size of goncht and we are asking our viewers in this segment where you fit in the political typeology we have run through this morning and talking about this report from the Pew Research Center,. Phones are open. Democrats 202 5853880, independence 202 5853882. And outside of the u. S. I am sorry we didnt have eight lines this morning that people could call in on those but what are the implications here for the 2014, 2016 election . Well, the implication, we look at two sets of implications, what does it mean for the public and the electorate broadly . And it means, i think there is a kind of misconception out there that the center is this sort of loosely organized group of moderates that could uh somehow be assembled into a political movement, and the typeology shows that is not really the case. These people in the center have very difficult very subsequent views across a range of issues, they really dont have a lot in common, except that they are disengaged in politics, more than the groups at the wings. And i think both parties pace some divisions over issues and perhaps surprising divisions over issues as they head into 2014 and 2016. To refresh our viewers what are your thoughts on the Political Center and the polarization of the Political Parties . The Washington Post wrote about this report this morning and asked his question what is left of the Political Center . In a politically polarized nation what constitutes the middle ground, the answer is not as similar as it may seem we are at a time when there are both rising showing of and elections in which the redblue divisions are increasingly stark if you want to read more on dan balzs piece that is on the Washington Post. One thing he brings up in that piece, however disparate, however disengaged and whatever the size the middle of the electorate cannot be ignored by either party. The shifting sentiments of those voters have caused big swings in elections over the past decade and goes through a few of those swings what are the barriers to getting there uh to the political middle here orcs get outside of those three party anchors we talked about . Well, i think the challenges are different for each group, i look at the young outsiders and they could fit well within the Republican Coalition, but imagine a group where most people favor same sex marriage, most people favor the legalization of marijuana, and that group fitting within the Republican Coalition on the size and role of government, which are the key issues today, they are right there with the steadfast conservatives and business conservatives on these other issues they are not. Fill dougherty is the Research Director at Pugh Research center. We will start with tray in augusta kansas on our line for independents, tray, good morning. Thank you for letting me on the journal. One with, i kind of fall myself into the young outsiders but also a little bit of the next generation left and i find it is kind of hard to have our government seem to have the, you know, jeffersonian ideals of what our government is, and how it is supposed to operate, and we are really finding a hard time being able to express those i wanted to see if i could ask the pugh Institute Expert about. What he thinks about the primary system and whether or not that is actually producing more extremism in the Political Parties and that might be why we see such a polarization in our political system. Okay. Dougherty if you could define those terms he brought up again so folks know from the report, young outsiders, the next generation left, young liberal on social issues, less so on the social safety net, but he asked about the primary the primary, the question is whether that is, you know, whether that is a cause or effect of what we are seeing now. It is certainly having the effect of perhaps forces the Republican Party to take more conservative positions on the Republican Party side but i think what we are looking at is more of a broad phenomenon across the electorate. There is more poe particularration among the public, and what this report tries to do is look at the center and those people who arent in the wings and, again, it is a fractious political middle, it is not something that can be easily organized or easily categorized. Again the report is beyond red versus blue, the political typeology if you are interested in tabling the quiz to figure out your typeology you can go to Pugh Research. Org. Lets go to leonard waiting in 0 fallon, illinois on the line for democrats, leonard, good morning. Good morning. I have a very simple question. In looking at the these categories, i dont i just dont understand why you dont also include rural versus urban or rural suburban and urban as dividers to actually see what the population is doing. Well, as i said, we base this on people attitudes and political values and i think you do see some of the characteristics there reflected in some of the groups, i think the faith and family left, principles, might be somewhat more rural than some other groups. You know, but that is not the basis for this. I think there are geographic divides certainly that matter in politics, but we wanted to do this on the basis of what people believe. And i should note that we have a link to the political typeology quiz on our twitter page right now, if you are following us on twitter. Go ahead and take the quiz and then call back in in the next 15 minutes or so and let us know where you fall in that quiz and whether you think it is the right political typeology for you. Lets go to jeff waiting in ft. Lauderdale florida on our line for republicans, jeff, good morning. Hi, good morning, i found it very interesting, your poll and i consider myself a liberty republican, federalism just defines what the federal government should be involved in social issues, that is up to the states and local. And so i want to see the debt go down. I have never seen it go down, i dont see either party really worried about it that much. There was some good stuff after gingrich and clinton compromised, but what i am concerned about is, and is how race is involved so much and it has been that way prefer. Racial identity, and i dont think the poll addresses that but, you know, after i guess Martin Luther king, and correct me if i am wrong, wrote a letter about how the goldwater republicans, his followers, goldwater followers, supported segregation and all of that, he said that they were crazy or implied that. After acting strongly and have been voting democrat since. Dougherty on racial voting patterns. Well there are big gaps of the racial and ethnic makeup of these groups is very different as i said, the faith and family left is majority minority, the two conservative groups are overwhelmingly white and nonhispanic and you find some differences across the other groups as well. But race matters in politics, we all know that. The africanamericans are reliable democratic block. But hispanics, less so and i think we find them kind of disbursed dispersed more across the groups in the political typeology. If you want to respond to jims question from twitter. The diversity shows there will never be a viable third party, they are either for it or against it. Never say never in politics. You know, we have seen a viable third party, you know, 22 years ago now with ross perot, but that was a unique set of circumstances and events and he had certainly financial backing he could do. It is difficult there is no question. It is difficult to wrangle together this center. That is one of the Main Findings of the report, but, you know, again, the frustration level therethere in the center is prey deep, so i think you never know what can happen. Lets go overseas to cambridge, imlenld, james is calling in, james is an independent, james, good morning. Good day to you sir. How are you . Good. Go ahead, you are talking to dougherty on the Pew Research Center. Obviously you have all of this multipolarization happening within u. S. Politics. Now, some of the british, european perspective you see each of those groups set up their own democratic party, you know, they would all have their views and have their policies, et cetera. I am just wondering or not the whole reason this doesnt happen in the United States is down to the riddle amount some spend, ridiculous amount of Campaign Finance, in india they have 112th of the Campaign Resource budget, because of the legal system out there that makes sure that there is a limit placed out there, but also do you think that actually the whole reason of why you have this polarization is because people are trying to be pigeonholed into either democrats or republicans, so they maintain some sort of active control and power base so prevent the middle ground, the third, fourth and potentially even fifth party from actually getting in and creating a coalition because with your population of 350 million, you cant just tell me that there are just democrats and republicans out there, you know, it is all codown to the money side i think that is calling the polarization within u. S. Society and just wondering what you think about that, please, sir. It is true that money is a barrier to the creation of new parties in the United States. There is no question about that. But we also know that Campaign Finance reform is an issue for the public that, you know, even with the rise of money in recent years, there is just 00 not a lot of, frankly not a lot of outrage or interest among the public and that is a very complex topic. When the Court Decision came down on the opening the way for corporate donations, a couple of years ago there was a flurry of interest then but since then not so much but money is a factor, certainly, maintaining this two party seasonal. Come back here to the United States. [ twoparty system. Mark is a republican, mark, good morning. Good morning, i appreciate your time. My wife and i feel that contrary to what is frequently stated that Republican Party has moved to the right, we feel they have lurched to the left as evidenced by Mitch Mcconnells stating that not one single Tea Party Candidate would win, and the links that the, lengths that the Republican Party went to in mississippi to defeat a conservative i think tells it all. Mark, can i ask you, have you taken the political typeology quiz . No, sir. Do you have a sense of where you might paul in the different republican categories . There are three leaning republican categories, steadfast conservatives, that is socially conservative, conservative populists business conservatives, pro wall street, pro immigrant and young outside outsiders, conservative views on government but not social issues. I would say steadfast conservative, and we are definitely against all of the cronyism with the Republican Party and the democrats, with them both having their trends in big business and we feel that is bad for the middle class. Mr. Dougherty does that line up with the steadfast conservative . I think i really raised a bell and connects with what is going on in washington right now with the debate, within the Republican Party over authorizing the xm bank, i think you see a real split in the republican parties, steadfast conservatives are small Government Conservatives but they are also very skeptical of big business and business conservatives, they are much more comfortable with the role of big business. What do you think the Political Parties, the democratic parties, republican parties, what could they do with this data that you are putting out there . I think it equipoises some of the some of the risks within the party but it also certainly for a candidate, in 2016 there is opportunity there, you see these groups, especially at the wings who are very active and engaged and these are the groups, two on the right and one on the left who are going to be the most active in the nominating process. So how to appeal to those groups is kind of kind of important, and thats what we went over in this report to an extent. And you have further followup reports coming out, what topics are you going to be well, we are going to be looking at geography, how that impacts it, where are these people where do these people live, how they vote, how they actually vote, you know, we are going to be looking at some voting records and also media. Media is, you know, one of the questions we got about this, the polarization report is, to what extent is media intense buying the political divisions in this country, and we may not come up with a conclusive answer but we are certainly going to look closely at it. Lets go to frederick in midland, texas on the line for independence, good morning. Good morning. In the, in my twenties i was in the middle and i have gone toward conservatives but i believe in the beliefs i was brought up in the sixties and seventies, basically in the seventies if you work hard, you can excel in america, and so now, even though i voted for president obama the first time because i really did believe that, you know, what he talked about, hope and change, then i basically have seen the party going back to being the party of special interests and thats why i voted for romney the second time. So i voted for clinton twice. I voted for george h. W. Bush the first time he ran against dukakis, so, you know, there are a group of us who are still basically in the middle, but we still hold true to those beliefs that we were brought up with, so, you know, we have we cant continue to be i cant continue to be a party for the special interests. I have to be about the belief in the american system. Dougherty can you address how people can switch between political typeologies here . Yes with this is a continuum. You know, as dan balz pointed out in the Washington Post today, politics is constantly changing and especially for the people in the middle, the middle of the electorate. Every, they are reacting to what they see whether 9 11 and george bushs performance, you know, one of the things we pound in the previous typeology was that there was this group called pro Government Conservatives that emerged in the mid 2,000s these are Strong Security people. They were swing voters but drawn to the Republican Party because of the 9 11 and because of the Republican Partys strong stance on terrorism and security. And so events matter and i think we will see this continue to change overtime. Don is up next in st. Louis, missouri on our line for independents. Good morning. Good morning. Three things. First of all, at various times i voted for george senior, pat buchanan,. , depending on the issues, i am a true independent on all of the issues and i have been calling here for 23 years. I think i would be a perfect candidate to be one of your specimens. Secondly, if the Corporate Media concentrated on the need for Campaign Finance reform, like they did in getting us in two totally unnecessary wars, then you might have something accomplished, and thirdly, independents and moderates, they have been cut out of everything, not here but most call inshows, the hosts, since the Citizens United decision, the rich spend millions in negative ads to take out the sensible people, if they dont vote the way they want. We have become an oligarchy where a few rich people like the Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch is running things behind the scenes, everybody doesnt know what they are doing but money is always at the root of it and until you get back to just simple lincoln, douglas type debates where you take all of that money out, we are just going downhill fast. Dougherty, do you want to jump in. I really want to know i am curious i want her to take the typeology and see where she fits. I think it would be fascinating given her voting history. Again, it is pew research. Org if you want to take the quiz. Lets go to mickey waiting in lake after su city, arizona on our line for republicans, nicki, good morning. Good morning. My question or issue is, if we are really, if the media was held to truth, wouldnt we be much better off . We are so polarized against each other, and most of it is based on untruth, if we just had somebody that would go in, i know we have that thing online that tells you liar, liar pants on fire, but if she could be held to some kind of standard, the most recent example would be hobby lobby, whether out there stating that hobby lobby wants to do do, do away with contraception, actually they have covered it in insurance and covered their customers for years for contraceptives. And yet they are allowed to go out there, i hear station after station just ranting and raving, war against women, because they are going to take away all of their contraceptives. I think there is no truth to the media. It is like a war against republicans, against democrats, et cetera. And my other issue is, for christians is, jesus was not fighting against the government. He said pay caesar what is cesars and i think if we get caught up in trying to regulate the government in social issues, we are probably doing a disservice. I think we should take care of ministering to one another and maybe cut out a little bit of that war. Dougherty, mickey brings up media issues, something you may be addressing in your future work. Yes, we will be addressing it in the our future work coming up in the next couple of months. You know, again, the question about media is very is a very difficult one, because we have seen the rise in partisan media, as we all know. But is this a sense of, you know, people who are conservative perhaps being attracted and finding a place with fox news or another news outlet they may not have had before or is this a case of some outlets perhaps intensifyings people cease views especially on the left and right . These are the questions we are going to be grappling with. They are very difficult questions, because the cause and effect is slippery. Carroll dougherty. Political Research Director of Pew Research Center, pew research. Org come back and talk to us about your work down the road. That is our show for today, on tomorrows, we will have a round table to talk about the week ahead in congress. At some of the cases decided by the supreme court