Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20130930

This looming Government Shutdown. M kratz can call in this morning democrats can call in at we are talking a possible Government Shutdown tonight at midnight. We are taking your calls and comments this morning. We want to show you some headlines on the subject on most every major newspaper today. Heres the front page of the Financial Times to the frontyou page of the hartford current closed quote current ord and in the Tampa Bay Times front page of the Washington Post close take the Washington Post and finally the front page of todays usa today we are going to take you through the latest today. Questionsincludes 66 about the Government Shutdown, a full page dedicated to questions about the shutdown. One of those questions, when will the shutdown begin . Most federal workers will report to work on tuesday but unless they are deemed essential they will work no longer than four hours before being furloughed. The question is how may times has the Government Shutdowns since 1977 . We will take you through questions surrounding the Government Shutdown tonight. We are taking your thoughts and comments. Plenty of comments on our Facebook Page this morning our phone lines are open this morning. Stephanie is waiting from arnold, maryland on our line for democrats. Good morning to you. Caller this is a ludicrous circus. Some reports are saying that the will be paid by ious. Considered congress is considered essential and they will be paid. I think they should be reversed and the funds that will go to congress should be used to pay the military. At the very least we owe them that much. Believe that those who are blocking the progress of legislation are not hanging their heads in shame. It is just mindboggling. Stephanie brings of what will and will not be funded. Mail delivery would continue under a Shutdown Scenario along with Social Security checks. Plenty would be shutdown under a potential Government Shutdown. As you learn more about this and what is happening on capitol hill, you want to bring in burgess efforts we want to bring in burgess efforts burgess everetts. How much hope is there that the shutdown can be averted by minna tonight . Guest it will be very steep for that happen that to happen. They will probably leave in just the house will maybe respond back. Is a chance that a one week extension could come up. Neither side, House Republicans or senate democrats, say there is no anything to negotiate say there is anything to negotiate about. Us through what those amendments are that the house added on to the funding measure yesterday. A two point three percent medical tax on all devices. Medical tax on all devices. There is a oneyear delay of aamacare, which is seen as concession. Both of those are nonstarters. Senator reid has said no changes to obamacare as a part of this government funding fight. It is not exactly a concession in his view. From politicone this morning tell us a little bit about what. Redos doing today. About what harry reid is doing today. Harry reid is saying we are not going to assess what you are going to assess. He will use it procedural moment appreciate euro a procedural motion. At two. E in they will vote shortly after that. We will have five or six hours until the shutdown deadline with no clear solution in sight. In past shutdowns or potential shutdowns, there have been back channeling negotiations that have gone on that have averted the sort of things. Are you hearing anything about the talking in the back channels , members of Congress Getting together . Guest there are no negotiations between Speaker Boehner and majority leader reid and majority leader reid. Their staffs are keeping the communications open. We are told theres no real negotiation to find a otiation that both changes both chambers can get behind. I think the strategy is sort of to wait and see. Host before we let you go, what is this telling us about that other deadline that is coming up later this month, the debt ceiling deadline . Guest it is going to be a long couple of weeks. It is possible this Government Shutdown fight becomes totally linked up with the the debt ceiling fight. Everyday they dont deal with this that becomes a possibility. Host thank you for getting up with us this morning. Talking to our viewers, those on twitter and facebook, governmentsible shutdown. Lets go to frank from West Virginia on our independent line. I think it looks like total incompetence in the white house and in the senate with majority leader reid and president obama saying its my way or the highway. I dont think that is any way for our government to be run. In my 70 years, this is the worst one worst run administration and most incompetent. I pray for the day that we will have the people will have more sense and put our country back to work. Thank you and have a good day. Will go to robert on how republicans line from missouri. On our republicans line from missouri. I have something to say about the shutdown. I dont understand why we send people to washington to do a job. Tomorrow morning, im going to surgery. What happens tomorrow morning is medicare for life , im a 20 year veteran, what happens if i go over there tomorrow and have my surgery on , wem and the dr. Says cannot do surgery because there is no money. What do i do next the echo i do not do next . In myot have money savings to pay for this operation. This government needs to wake up. We sent them there to do their job. If they cannot do it the sad thing about it is we cannot vote them out at one time. I guarantee you when it comes time for the new house and senate are presented this and representatives, they will be gone. According to joe davis in with the Washington Post he goes on to list the few other departments and what he projected shutdown plans might be. He notes that we have set up a special line of four federal and louise, those folks who want to call when i talk about how they are preparing for a possible for low. We want to hear what you are doing. 202 am line that line is 5853883. We will go to tyrone from philadelphia, on our line for democrats. Caller our nation is sick right now. A group ofad off numbers not numbers, these are people. Even though they work for the government, they still are putting money into the economy. Here we have the republicans talking about jobs, jobs, jobs. When you take these people out employment out of this employment, it is going to impact country. We are not even going to get to the debt ceiling, we are going to hit the economy the minute these people are starting to have their jobs taken. The economy is going to retract because there is no because theres going to be no money infused in the economy. The only thing that has to happen is problem a lot. They did not have to like the health care bill. But its the law. What is going on with our nation . Rich waiting on our independent line from Virginia Area from virginia. Im more concerned about the military than anything else. Served. They live payday to payday. Theyre really going to take a smack by this. Sent over i guess it is sitting on senator reids desk. The appropriations bill wouldve taken them out of the middle of all this. I just do not understand how one guy, one individual, can hold up the entire country. The senate used to be appointed the state sent to answer they are elected to provide the poison to provide the toys of the people the voice of the people. Maybe you can do a special on how congress has shifted over the last 50 years, 60 years. It seems to me that we are at a where thehe country people do not really understand how it is supposed to work and if people got involved they can make the change that maybe change that. Talking about the possible legislation to keep the government funded. Dick durbin, senator of illinois, was on cbss face the nation yesterday, talking about that pet at bill. Talking about that bill. [video clip] tomorrow the senate will come into session. Were going to face the prospect of the government shutting down. That is sad. 800,000 federal workers will be the victims of this republican shutdown strategy. Even more important, it hurts our economy. We are just starting to recover and create jobs and strengthen the economy. And the leaders tell us dont do this, dont shut down the government. That is exactly what they are hellbent on doing it collects hellbent on doing. For federale a line workers. Todd young is on the line. Good morning. Ana is there. S her. Nk we lost making its way into a whole lot of headlines this morning. We will run you through a few of those headlines this is a story from inside the journal yesterday. We will talk about this lame with ourhis blame game callers and viewers on twitter and facebook. Lets go to roger from iowa on our republican line on our federal employee line. As a federal employee, how are you preparing for this possible Government Shutdown . A four stepe is method of correcting the whole mess. Step number one, the house has to create a bill that says that there is no escape from which means that all the senators, all the representatives, including the president , his wife, and his kid , is on obamacare. Two, we have to send that bill to the senate for approval. At who catches the blame that point in time. We go ahead and approve obamacare, and let them choke on it. Host what are you doing to prepare as this whole four step process happens . Caller there is no way to prepare for it. In 18 months we put obamacare up for a vote, approved or disapproved. After the American Public has willd on obamacare, there be a democrat that will get reelected in this country anywhere. The republicans will take this country back again and start spending only the money that we have. That step number two. Host roger is from iowa. Several tweets. Several editorials today on this subject and the blame game that is going on. Heres the lead of the Washington Post close quote of thes the front page Washington Post we want to get your thoughts on this possible shutdown just hours away. Sally is from michigan on our line for democrats. Good morning. Good morning. I have heard a lot of independence and federal workers federalendents and worker speaking in disparaging tones about the president of the United States. I would like to hear more from real constituents. I do not know how these people are representing but it is certainly not the people being affected. If youre reading the headlines that are just six or seven words about the shutdown, who is to blame, all of that. There arethat people out there, the American Public is suffering. The economy is going to suffer, again. Our stance in the world, as far as being reputable, is going to be harmed again. There are Something Like 4247 Congress People 42 or 47 Congress People, who are they representing . They are not representing the public good. These people are voting down food stamps for people who are in need of food. The population that is hardest hit by all of this are the children of the United States of america, not these people who are walking around, getting interviews, talking about things that has nothing to do with everything the life. With everyday life. Host the folks that will be impacted immediately will be those federal workers. Heres the front page story of the Washington Times we are talking to federal employees this morning, we have a special line for them. Worry is waiting on that line from jacksonville, florida this morning. Good morning. As a federal employee, what are you doing to prepare for this possible shutdown . Caller good morning. The firstrt of shutdown during new the rich and bill clinton. Gingrich and bill clinton. There was a call several weeks ago, that was who would be affected by this Government Shutdown . Invariably as you are reading right now, most federal employees will be affected by this. I can give you some background when it comes to the impact of federal employeesurg a Government Shutdown. In 1990 today balanced the budget on the backs of federal employees. The actually took away Social Security earnings for those federal employees that were in, what was then, the Civil Service retirement system. What the media did not cover is that those federal employees, with bill clinton and newt they lostn 1992, three quarters of their Social Security earnings because they were in the service in the Civil Service retirement system. Host do you think the media is covering enough about the impact . Caller they are not. Federal employees are hard working people, democrats, republicans, taxpayers. Theres this perception that theyre going to sit back come and drink coffee, and have their feet on the desk treated it is not on the desk. It is not fair to the country. They are paying into the system. They are the ones who are going to be mostly effected by this. And then United States citizen and people, such as you are and other citizens of the working media federal employees would be impacted if congress does not act by midnight tonight. Congresswoman Cathy Mcmorris rodgers is chairman of the conference. She was on state of the union yesterday, talking about how the senate could act to avoid the shutdown. [video clip] we are waiting for the senate to act. We are pushing for the senate to listen to the american people, listen to the stories across this country, from the implementation of obamacare. We need them to have this debate. I hear the stories, and the stories i hear are repeated by other members in our conference. Have a a duty, we responsibility to the people we represent. Ands home earlier this week a mom in Lincoln County has a son with type one diabetes. No hospital or doctor would except her insurance card. Because of the new fees, the new taxes, the new regulations, they are not going to be investing in the cutting edge or the single and the cutting edge. Or the single mom at the Employee Owned the employer grocery store. We are taking your calls and we will be talking about this for several of the segments today on washington journal. We want to point you to some of the other news going on around the country today. Here is from todays Washington Post. Soonustice department will North Carolina on monday over the states new voting law this story from the huffington close quote post the huffington john kerry talk to bit about the subject. We want to play you a bit from the interview. [video clip] upthey can immediately open inspection of a secret facility in the mountains. He could immediately sign protocols regarding inspections. They could offer to cease voluntarily take enrichment at another level. Of uranium . T correct. I believe that we have hopes. President obama clearly welcomes the overtures. Are not going to replace actions. What we need our actions that prove that we, and our allies, and our friends in the region can never be threatened by this program. Host one editorial on that. Ubject today a senior fellow at the American Enterprise institute has the headline we will keep you updated on that story as it develops. For the next 10 minutes or so we continue to talk about a possible Government Shutdown. That Government Shutdown will happen tonight at midnight if no deal is reached. Plenty of headlines talking iout the blame game going on head of that possible shutdown. Here are two more headlines from the Washington Times a tweet phone lines are open, we will go to travis from cartersville georgia on our line for republicans. Good morning. Go , are you there yet are you there yet go are you there . We do go to elizabeth on our line for independents. Caller i have been an independent for most of my voting life. I have never seen such a disrespectful waste of their time for the american people. Sure some are democrats that are doing it, but i have never seen where i have had such negative feelings toward republicans. A lot of this has to do with the 2012 2010 when all of these tea partiers were elected. They seem to be stupid. It is like one a cbo is telling you about what might happen, and then what if the republican says Something Like, the cbo is not always right. How many of them know about economics and the Global Economy . I think they were elected by ignorant people. Hard to maintain my independence outlook because it is hard to believe what republicans are doing. They have a line believe our coatings are doing. Host pam is up next area good morning. That is up next. Good morning. I am a democrat but i believe the president is showing weakness of our leadership in the country. I also people i also feel people are being greedy. Her next concern should be our military men and military families. There are going to be a lot of families out there dealing with paychecks i themselves, especially women. Aboutwhat are you doing that potential possibility . Are you one of those employees who might have to be furloughed after this shutdown . No, sir. I work for the tsa. Im going to have to go to work without pay. Public people out there, i hope it shows them that the tsa arctic people. We are committed to our country and protecting the traveling public. Im going to have to go to work without a paycheck. I prefer to stay at home without a paycheck because i have work around my house to do. If some of these federal Government People would give up one or two days a week, maybe it would help our country get back in shape. Collars concern about members of congress and their paychecks during this possible shutdown. Here is a story on that subject. A democrat from texas proposed legislation atwood that story in the hill today. Arkansaswaiting from this morning on our line for democrats. Good morning. Caller i think in all of this discussion something is being lost. Here in the state of arkansas, one quarter of our citizens do not have Health Insurance. Of legislature, which is one one representative in the. Ouse and senate and Medicaid Expansion of the federal government was offering. It was a little bit of a hybrid that the Obama Administration approved, so we could get more Health Insurance to our citizens. Lost saying is being our hospitals and our Doctors Point to the legislatures and said that they needed to do this. Of ourre so many citizens you are going into the emergency room or the hospital, went were admitted into the hospital, and he could not pay their hospital bill because they had no Health Insurance. Host why dont you think congress can do this on the federal level . Caller i think you have a group of people who basically do not like government. They are trying to dismantle the government. These are people that need Health Insurance. Theyre waiting for this. Who is payingive independently on her own. She gets 1000 per month in Health Insurance. We are going to have a whole segment later in todays show talk about the Affordable Care act and the launching of those exchanges. Our line for federal employees, michael is from baltimore, maryland. They key so much for calling in this morning. Thank you so much for coming in this morning. What are you doing to prepare . Caller i am basically going to have to go to work, probably without pay. I dont understand what congress whereas getting paid others, like me, still have to not get paid. If nobody is getting they shouldnt get paid either. One story about what members of congress are doing during the shutdown. Notes ngton post here is congressman, joe garcia, and the democrat from texas during a visit to monticello. And then three members hitting the billy goat trail, a hiking trail along the Potomac River in maryland. You can see that story in todays the Washington Post yuriko we have a few more minutes in the segment talking about the possible Government Shutdown, getting your thoughts and comments. Randall is from oakland tennessee on our line for republicans. Good morning. I dont have a lot of time here at all. The Government Shutdown, i hear everyone talking about the Government Shutdown. It is kind of like it already is. How is it going to affect the poor people . Is i ask you that he e how it going to affect the poor people, the Government Shutdown the echo the Government Shutdown . Host we took you through the different agencies how theyre going to be impacted. How do you think its going to affect people you know in your area . It will change nothing. The democrats and republicans of everyone is talking about there are none. There are haves and havenots. That is the way it is and the way it is going to be. They are going to do what they want. If they want to shut it down. The Mainstream Media will hide from it. Host randall from oakland, tennessee this morning. A story from the new york the number of agencies and employees that would be furloughed we have just a few minutes. We have a line just for federal employees, kathy is on that line from alexandria, virginia. Good morning to you. Go are you there you are you there yet fell are you there . We will go to elaine, on our line for democrats. Caller i agree with the viewers that the congress should be the first one to stop getting paid. Using strong are arms to care tactics strong instead oftactics going back and try to look at thatms and modifications should be made in the Affordable Care act. I dont believe they are doing their job. I am very disappointed in congress. We will continue this discussion on the possible Government Shutdown in our next segment with congressional so with congressional scholar thomas manna and Norman Ornstein. We will be right back. Since 1998, cspan2s booktv has shown over 40,000 hours of programming. He preempted that and i was horrified, quite honestly. Then i was delighted. I always felt that people are more alike than they are different. To thatst in me rose occasion, that if i can create andthing that is so moving allows the kind of distance that you sometimes need, then people understand. Understanding is basically what is fundamental. No argument is that is given to that effect. None of the relevant facts are considered. This is regarded as one of the just warn cases where theory entails the use of military force was legitimate. We are only the National Television network devoted exclusively to nonfiction books. During the fall we are marking 15 years of booktv on cspan2. [mooing] cowboys mean a great deal to montana. Raising of livestock, being a until thisf that day you still need a man or a woman or young person that can ofe in on a horse, take care the livestock, whether it is bringing them in and pulling a calf or taking them to a new pasture. Raising them with great care, and dignity, because what you are selling and the fall is pounds of the. Beganhe cowboy culture and this man or woman or person , theyled a cowboy lived in all of the elements. They lived and worked outdoors so they had to dress accordingly. They really just had animal skins. There were no modern textiles to repel water or rain or snow. The would cover their bodies with leather apparel. These are called chaps, shapiros chaperos. And cattle from big sky country, as booktv and American History tv look at the literary life of an history of billings, montana. Saturday at noon on cspan two. Host we are joined by congressional scholars thomas mann and Norman Ornstein. You have both written books about why the government is so dysfunctional. The Situation Congress finds itself in, ours from a shutdown, ies it surprise you . Guest wish it did but it is entirely predictable. In fact we predicted it in a First Edition of our book. Politics has become intensely partisan, even tribal. Our parties do not fit with our governing institutions. One of the our Political Parties has a sharp one of our Political Parties has veered sharply to the right. Host we can get more into the differences between the party. Is the Current Situation more serious than past moments of gridlock and crisis . Guest it is. I actually was a little bit surprised that we would be at this particular impasse now after the 2012 elections. Some recall the difficulties we had a were a part of the permanent campaign, that you are always focused on bringing down your opponent to gain traction for the next election. Mitch mcconnell made a statement was tos number one goal make president obama a one term president. There is a ureter you can focus back on governing. After all he achieved his goal of making obama a twoterm president. That tribalism took hold right away. It has led us to close the abyss. A shutdown is one thing, it is looming ahead with the debt ceiling where he has seen these games played before. There are always the votes to make sure that we will not play withamericas fullface americas fullface in credit you closer to a disaster than i have ever seen before. Host any thoughts of whether a compromise can be reached in the hours ahead . Guest it could be. The way for a compromise is for Speaker Boehner, contrary to wishes of the pottery conference of these party conferences, is to put the senate bill that will go to the house this afternoon, the clean continuing resolution, before the half full house. I think that will carry all of the democrats and enough republicans to prevent the shutdown. Judged thatner has he would be very unpopular and it would be very unpopular within his own caucus. He knows he has another battle coming up in two weeks. Now is the time to let his Party Members feel that some of the public reaction to the shutdown to give him a little leg up and avoiding a public default. You wrote a piece in the Washington Post ahead of this fight looking ahead to this fight down the road, do you think congress can still get done if stuff done . Guest it is looking grimmer and grammar. Our fantasy should be be close to reality. What we are talking about, which would move our economy back on itck in a dramatic rate, does not involve substantial movement away from principles. The reason we are not getting there, which will include because weure, is are not dealing with liberals and conservatives, were dealing with some radicals that he want to bring enormous turmoil to the system so they can achieve ultimate ends. That is not conservative, it is radical. Host that issue brought up earlier, it is possibly exemplified in the most quoted piece from your book, it is even worse than it looks, how the american constitutional system collided with the new extremism. You to our congressional scholars on this. You to our congressional scholars on this preview have taken some heat on this. It is not a balanced we have been studying and working with republicans and democrats on congressional reform for almost four decades. We have never reached a point where our objective understanding of Congress Allowed us to speak to something that was not politically correct. We saw a party that had veered far out of the mainstream. If it were just a matter of substances of substantive ideological differences, that would be fine. Continuing is a resolution to keep government open, tied down by dominions of nullified a law that was passed two years ago. Millions of billions of dollars have been out have artie been invested by Insurance Companies to get this started. Invested byady been Insurance Companies to get the started. It was tough, we have taken some heat from republicans. Norman and i have received from selfemails identified republicans who said to us, thank you, our party has been taken hostage by an extreme group. We need to return to problem solving. Efforts. With your he is a government senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Your calls and comments as we talked through this potential Government Shutdown that would happen at midnight tonight. Karin is up first for maryland on our line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. I moved to the area from georgia about six weeks ago. My husband is a federal employee working in i. T. Support. He is still going to have to do his job with interest. Internet access has become sparse. I am in the home buying process. Im kind of follow as much as i can to keep up with the story because it directly impacts my family. He has been a Government Employee for two months now. ,an you put into laymans terms are they shutting down because they cannot reach an agreement on the laws of reform or have we reached some sort of debt limit were we cannot afford to keep for a wishing them because they cannot reach an agreement or are they omitting we are out of the fundamental reality is we have two sets of issues. The first is that there are some real differences between the two parties and their budget priorities. David rogers of politico wrote a very good piece about how this is really about a host republican budget that cuts spending so far below what it own 10 year budget plan was, that they cannot get appropriations done. There is a real golf on the house and senate of this food normally you keep the government funded of this. Normally you keep the government funded until you can work out your differences. Theyre having difficulty with that. The biggest problem is what tom suggested a little while ago. It is putting onto a continuing resolution that demands that go far beyond what we normally see, that have nothing to do with the current budget. It is an attempt not only to nullify the law but to nullify an election. A clean, continuing resolution with the to a shutdown and lead to a lot of people like your husband not working. Unless the House Resolution would take some soft slice of the pair small slice of the federal employees pay. Of the housembers of representatives went to the senate yesterday and talked about the blame games that we have seen in the headlines of many of the papers. I want to show a clip of a republican [video clip] senatorsct that the are not here, harry reid is off somewhere, is all the evidence you need to know that they want to shut down the government. I have been told that by high level democrats, that this has been a plan for a wild. I personally believe that senator reid and the president , for political purposes, want to shut down the government. Used with what they sequestration, they blamed every bad thing on sequestration. They made decisions within the agencies to make the political pain as bad as it could be. That is the plan here. The only evidence you need is the fact that they are not here. This is the old football strategy. When you get to where you want to be in a football game, you run out the clock. You run out the clock because you think you like where you are. That is exactly what is going on here. Do democrats like where they are . Are they trying to run out the clock . No. T they believe in government. That thisstand shutdown, if it comes to pass, will cost billions of dollars. It is not moneysaving. As theople, as well economy, will be hurt. They have no interest in shutting down the government. They have been willing to accept a cr that really goes against toir views about how much spend and where to spend it. To for shortterm efforts postpone those negotiations, they have been willing to accept it. What they will not accept is this unrelated matter of revisiting the Affordable Care act, which was passed almost three years ago. Parts of which have already been implemented. How far off the rails we have gotten if we talked about a continuing resolution that would keep the funding at these levels, the sequester numbers slash discretionary spending. The portion of the budget other than programs like Social Security. Beentically what they have before. It has brought levels down dramatically. Way below what democrats want. It would be a huge victory for them given their priorities. They have decided instead to use the Affordable Care act as a hostage. This shows that perspective is out the window. Term political hostagetaking comes up in your book. When did we first start seeing this . Some effortse had over the years to use the debt ceiling to embarrass the president s party and to maybe even extract eight related related advantage on something. But never before, as norm said, before 2011, half we had our Major Political party willing to threaten a default and go right up to it. And presumably cross over to it. The big change came after the 2010 elections, the arrival of a class of tea Party Members. At the very beginning of that congress, john boehner said that we are going to get a lot done but my one piece of advice to you is do not play around with the debt ceiling. The full faith and credit of the United States, this is something we cannot do. Because of its damage potentially to the country. But also, the damage to the republican party. But within months, he was running to get out in front of his new party conference. Host back to the phones. Heat, new york, republican line. You are on with thomas mann and norm ornstein. And thankod morning you for cspan. I am a firsttime caller. I would like to know what they think about the repeal of the 17th amendment. I believe that gridlock is caused because the senators are directly elected by the people. I think it would help the situation and make it less political in nature if the state legislatures appointed their senators. Nothing more than a mouthpiece for how state legislators vote. Which comes from the people. I think that the senators ought to be there to discuss and legislatures opinion on it. Each of them get two votes, and of story. And then the senators would not to vote differently because they are directly elected by the people. Host mr. Ornstein . This has become an interesting popular discussion, repeal of the 70 the moment. It is not going to happen. In part because of the whole history of the u. S. Is that we move more and more towards expanding the amendment the electorate. That Popular Movement is not going away. We have to think a little bit about what the consequences would be if state legislatures selected senators. Bet the consequences would for state legislative elections. It would change the nature of the states. Billions of dollars would go into state elections to influence those. That would change the nature of the state legislatures and the states themselves. There is a lot of stuff there that would be deleterious. Guest it is interesting to note that prior to the adoption of a 17th amendment, for decades, we were already seeing a transition enateven elections in s elections with individual state legislative elections becoming a means for electing senators. You were already beginning to get popular involvement in the election of senators. The other point i would make, our problems today having to do ath gridlock, shut down, and possible public default, are not arising in the senate. Republican senators are more pragmatic. At least half of them are. The problem is entirely in the house of representatives. Are talking with thomas mann of the Brookings Institution and Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise institution. Branchof the broken from 2006. Most recently, its even worse than it looks. In may ofublished this year. Mr. Ornstein, a question from twitter. Does anyone seriously think that end and america is not going to pay its bills . Guest we are closer to the point where we could see a default. I hope that does not happen. Who believehose that if we have the shutdown and it lasts for a week or 10 days, maybe that will move us further away from the default position. If you look at what the House Republican is now on the debt limit, compared to what it is on simply continuing funding the beyond whatit goes is now delaying obamacare for a year and repealing the medical device tax. To a whole wish list of things that have nothing to do with the debt. Some observers have said it is mitt romneys agenda from 2012 that they have put out there in return for extending the debt limit for one year. Basically saying that we lost the election but here is how we can win it, by using the debt as hostage. If that continues, i think president obama is going to stick to his determination to say no concessions on the debt limit per se, and we have got at least a 5050 chance that we could default. What we need is the macconnell role. Mcconnel rule. He proposed that the president raise theuthority to ceiling. Congress would then have the overridingss a law that. The president could veto it and it would take a two thirds vote to override him. This is unlikely except under extraordinary circumstances. If we could get that adopted, we could remove the temptation that is now being used in a highly irregular and illegitimate way. The second piece of this is that if we actually come to the brink, the president , who has the authority that to see that laws be faithfully executed, cannot fulfill his has additional responsibility. Andannot pay the bills honor the debt limit at the same time. He may decide on his own that he is going to ignore the debt ceiling and order to pay the bills. It would be highly controversial. It is cost its constitutionality disputed. It might lead republicans to call for his impeachment. But it would keep us from default and financial chaos. Some toughbook has words for House Republicans. Here is a question from email. Passthe senate does not any Appropriations Bills, are they not just playing games . It seems that their goal is to have the government passed down so republicans can be blamed. We had seenh Appropriations Bills passed in the regular order. Host for folks that dont know, regular order. Guest the way congress has set up its progress its process the floor. N a lot of amendments allowed. When laws are passed in different forms, you go to a Conference Committee and bring them back. In the case of appropriations in the annual budget, there are 12 Appropriations Bills which are normally stored in the house, passed the house, moved to the senate and each of them is reconciled individually. It is also done under the rubric of a budget. What we need to keep in mind is that this year, the house and the senate did pass budgets. The house have been urging the senate to pass a budget so they could go to a conference and do the regular order and set the priorities. When the Senate Passed the budget, the house said we will not go to conference with you. We have only three Appropriations Bills that have passed the house. The rest were withdrawn and did not get anywhere. Can look at, you both houses and say there is some blame here. But it was the initiation by the house and the refusal to go to conference that set us down this path. As i said earlier, it was passing Appropriations Bills that went even below with the original 10 year budget plan of paul ryanhaveed us to a gulf. The paperback is an expanded version brought up to date from the book its even worse than we published a year ago. Host where does this current book bring us up to . Aest it was just published couple weeks ago. We take it out it really takes us through the first part of this year up till the summer. Host the book is its even , thethan it looks authors are thomas mann and Norman Ornstein. Minnesota on our line for independence. Good morning. Caller good morning. I have a question in a statement. Supremeion is, with the court passing of the citizens united, i feel that by passing that that has put the corporations and lobbyists in control of our government. Could you explain this to me . Welcome to the United States of corporations, have a good day. Guest this is one of the most controversial decisions the court has made, overturning decades of precedent in law and court decisions. Basically, it said corporations and that is forprofit, nonprofit, and labor unions as well have the freedom out of their treasuries to spend independently on behalf of of or in opposition to any candidate. Treating corporations as individuals in that respect. Itit had stopped there, would be one thing. But what happened is, it was combined with a lower court that created a legal basis for the formation of a new kind of political organization, the superpac. This is an entity that could receive any amount of money from anyone and spend any amount on behalf of or against any candidate. Dru stanley, for the most part, it is not corporations that are funding it, but wealthy individuals with strong ideological views. They have also figured out a way to use nonprofit tax data, 50 1 c 4, to keep the donors identification anonymous. We do not have transparency, we have unlimited funds in our politics, it has been a very sad chapter. I should add here. On october 8, the Supreme Court aimsbe hearing a case that to remove all the limits that individuals can give in a two year cycle to parties and to canada. Ends two candidates. That would move us further to removing all limits and restrictions on campaign spending. Turning us into a wild west. That has had a lot to do with the dysfunction we are talking about, the nature of that Campaign Money system. A question for mr. Ornstein. With all the moneys and jobs these two parties control, why hasnt another party sprung up . Guest our system and the laws make it very difficult for a third party to take hold. There are so many impediments in the way. If you think about a system where you have an electoral post,e, a first past the Single Member district system. The candidate who gets the most votes can win the seat. No proportional representation. A third party would have to win significant numbers of seats in congress, not just do well in a president ial election. Doing well in a president ial election becomes very difficult. And then we have got to turn to the number ofy, pure independence in american less thans probably 10 . Most americans identify with one of those two parties. The dissatisfaction that they may feel towards the parties does not easily translate into abandoning that identification and going somewhere else. But we are seeing in the deep,ican party this internal split between traditional conservatives and the more radical ones. How that plays out may determine whether a lot of those who had a Party Identification stick with it. It is not clear where they would go if they dont. It has happened before. In the middle of the 19th century, the then strong alternative party, the whig party, went out of business and was replaced by abraham lincolns republican party. Since then, we have just had the two major parties. Independent parties and candidates have come forward and had influence but have never been in a Competitive Position president ial election or elect substantial members to congress. Stated thatons norm is unlikely to happen. You want to talk to thomas mann or Norman Ornstein, longtime congressional scholars. John, new york, democrat line. Caller it does not take much to f of securityil o on this whole thing. The most relative facts that are missing from the conversation i obama are that president is acting in the National Interest, the human interest. They are hopping on his fiscal responsibility. He has a moral responsibility. This whole incident was caused back the mortgage shenanigans. Back with fannie mae, when the whole economy melted down. Got hurt. He implemented the Affordable Care act to protect people who were destroyed by the republicans who started the shenanigans. Is what is motivating do thethis is, research. The Heritage Foundation that has been fueling this thing with ted cruz, who is behind that, the oche brothers the k brothers. The previous caller mentioned corporations. Host we will take your point. We talked about congress and this Current Situation. Talk about the role of the white house. Guest the white house, the president after the elections really thought that there was an opportunity here and continues to have discussions with some Senate Republicans to reach, not a grand bargain but at least a mini grand bargain. Those talks have not gotten very far. In the absence of some kind of larger deal, what is the president going to do . Is he going to give in to demands on shutting down the government or on the debt limit in return for giving up his signature a congressman of his first term . No president would do that. If you make any kind of gestures in that direction, we end up heading down a road where ever year or every few months you are going to get a new set of demands made. I can understand the position that the president is taking in this. Many articless have pointed out, this is much less a fight between congress and the white house. Not even a fight between republicans in congress and the white house. It is a fight within the republican party, often the house versus the senate, over how you interact with the president who is going to be there for another three years. The president has been more of a bystander in this process than anything else. Alabama says to you, mr. Ornstein, i do not think john boehner would allow a default. Rule. Ld break the hastert explain the hastert rule. It is appliedt is a practice when george bush was president. The idea was we are going to pass bills that get a majority of the majority. The idea was that we need close to unanimity in our Republican Congress because we do not want to make concessions to democrats. We are going to try and channel it through. If it were simply a rule that said the majority of the majority, it would be easier for john boehner because he could bring a build and lose a Strong Majority of his own party and replace them with democrats. Way that speaker banner john boehner has defined the role, he needs unanimity or close to it. Been held hostage to a couple dozen or more of his most radical members. It is true that if boehner brought a clean Debt Resolution bill and a clean continuing resolution to the floor, those would get all of democratic votes and he would only need a couple dozen republicans. He could do that. It would probably cost him his speakership. Guest that is really the point. Can bring a bill to the floor. He controls the rules committee. Democrats would support a role a rule allowing for a vote on a clean debt ceiling increase or a clean cr. He would be going against the energy within the republican party. Earlier whoas john mentioned the mobilization in recent years has been on the political right. They are the ones who are hovering over republican primary g theions and drivin dynamic in the house. Speaker boehner could go down in history as a hero if he took this step, even if it meant his loss of the speakership. ,ost our republican line, tom florida. You are on with thomas mann and Norman Ornstein. Caller thank you for taking my call. I really take offense to the radicalrization of the reference to members of the republican party. They are just trying to stop this nation from its march to the ocean. Here is the bottom line lets start at the beginning. I am willing to bet neither one of you can tell me what your top line, most percent of the American Economy should be occupied by the government. I am willing to bet you we do not get a number from either one of you. Nn, do you want to jump and . Guest for many years, decades, the u. S. Has the federal government has occupied roughly the economy. This is perhaps the lowest level of any democracy in the advanced world. Because of the aging of society, i think we are going to have to increase tax revenues to something bite 3 percentage by 3 percentage points. At the same time, we make adjustments and Social Security and medicare and slow the growth of health care costs, that is the only way i believe we can have a stable financial situation in a growing economy. That is my number. Host this brings up the issue of how the two parties are growing further apart ideologically. This chart appears in your book. Explain what we are seeing here. Politicalhave some scientists who have done a very good job systematically of shelling ideology through votes going back to the first congress. What you see in the last couple of decades is the gulf between the republican and democratic ownties have growth has gr because of a move of republicans host this blue line here. Tour is an ideological extreme. Democrats have drifted a little bit. This in terms of the football field analogy. The parties have been around linesthers 35 or 40 yard to where democrats have moved to the 30 or so. Republicans have moved behind their own goalpost. Host what is media false balance . Are you seeing in this debate . Guest one of the awkward things for the Mainstream Media, not the partisan media. The people who are governed by certain professional norms, as well as market considerations. They bend over backwards trying sides and treat each equally. Academics and do it, too. It we have been able to do honestly and comfortably for many years. When the reality changes, when one party is so much more extreme in substance and process than the other, that is a reality of politics that the press needs to share with the public. To theoes not get public, nothing is going to be fixed. We think that there are examples of this every day on television, in the newspaper. What you hear from both sides is that the press is so liberal. Or thee left comes left complaining about the conservative media. The real problem is among the professionals who falsely equate the two parties. Host one more call, new jersey, our line for independents. You are on with thomas mann and Norman Ornstein. Caller this has been such a good discussion. Be to us watching the real problem was the redistricting of congressional districts in the states that were done by public and legislatures around the country. The districts so that it foster this kind of extremism. I was wondering it seems apparent that the only thing that Republican Congressmen are worried about is being primaried . Host in the last minute or so here you go here . Guest bill clinton focused on redistricting last week as well. It is a big problem. There is no doubt that it we number oferwhelming safe districts. They are far more concerned about primaries than general elections. The general elections do not reflect larger public opinion, necessarily. It is a problem that is far deeper than redistricting. Ourselves aed geographically into areas where we are surrounded by likeminded people. The natural patterns, democrats concentrated in urban areas, we have a lot of districts that are 80 democratic. Republicans in suburban areas, 65 . All of that creates a homogeneity in districts. You are not getting different kinds of people. If you take into account the tribal media, they become homogenous echo chambers. People are hearing the same things over and over. Help with redistricting reform. What we need to do is expand the electorate in a variety of ways, move towards open primaries with preference voting so you can dilute the impact of a strong a small number of ideologues who can dominate us. Then we can and should act towards reasonableness. Inch ourselves back towards reasonableness. Host the book is its even , thethan it looks authors are thomas mann of the Brookings Institution and Norman Ornstein at the American Enterprise institute. Thank you for joining us. Will continue our discussion of the Affordable Care act with Kaiser Health get wet. Ill later, focusing on the debt limit. A news update from cspan radio. More a reaction to the possible Government Shutdown from politico. Quoting a democratic official as saying the reason that president obama will not stave off a shutdown by caving to the house gop is it is time to punch the bully in the nose. Senate majority leader harry reid has been the most ardent proponent of president obama taking a hard line with House Republicans. When the president considered sitting down with four concessional congressional leaders, senator reid urged the president to call off the meeting because he believed it would amount to nothing more than a photo op that would give a false impression that a serious negotiation was occurring. He warned that he would not attend such a session. President obama scrapped it. The Justice Department filed suit against North Carolina, charging that the states requiring voters to show photo id violates the Voting Rights act by discriminating against africanamericans. Filed in said to be greensboro, North Carolina, will ask that the state. Barred from be instituting the law. Abel asked that all changes be precluded by the Justice Department. The holder makes announcement this morning. Cspan is covering the event, you can watch it on our website, www. Cspan. Org, later today. Those are some of the latest headlines on cspan radio. The u. S. Chief Information Officer wears a few hats on the budget for the technology of the executive branch. It covers all of the agencies of government and the department of defense who formulate the president s budget every year. The second thing is that, through that egovernment act, the chief Information Officer has the ability to set policy governmentwide. Thinking about a visionary view of Technology Use in government and driving a ford as part of the driving that forward as part of what we do. This is underg, this administration, the chief Information Officer was a role anated by obama, he acts as advisor to the administration on the use of technology. The smart spend on technology, driving efficiency and centuryeness, a 21st government. The federal governments digital strategy. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on c span 2. Washington journal continues. We turn to the Affordable Care act. Our ongoing series with reporters from Kaiser Health news. We are joined by Phil Galewitz, Senior Correspondent. Today, less than 24 hours before the health care are said to be opened across the country. We are looking at a looming Government Shutdown. The Government Shutdown impact was scheduled to happen tomorrow . At all. Retty much not the exchanges are ready to go. They have gotten most of the federal money over the last couple of years. The shutdown involves annual discretionary spending. Most of the money being spent on act isordable care mandatory spending. That has already gone out the door, it has to be spent regardless. If this does happen at the night, at midnight, people will see no difference tomorrow. Unless this thing goes on for months, which has not happened. Host what will happen tomorrow . Guest the first thing is, this is a big moment. Whereline market leases people can go and sign up for health care coverage. They will go on to a website, will be the main website to find out which website your state. Or if your state is relying on the federal government, you go right there. You start shopping for plants. In your zip code, your age, your income. On thecome information plans available. On can go through them based plans that cover hospitals, the price that you want. You can compare premiums, deductibles. This is the first time people will compare lance. Coverage does not again until january. There is no hurry. Weeks,want to wait a few go on around halloween, that is fine. There is no early bird special. Is actually december 15, that is the deadline to sign up to have coverage by january 1. Guest get letting the bugs worked out. What are some of the bugs that will need to be worked out . Guest as the president and the health and Human Services department have been telling us, there will be some snacks. Osme some snags. They have delayed a couple things. The spanishspeaking version will not starve for a couple weeks. The exchange for Small Businesses, businesses with less than 50 employees, will not start for another month. Those are a couple examples of things being delayed. For the most part, most people should not experience it. Some states, like oregon, have decided that he will be able to go online and shop but to complete the enrollment you will have to call a navigator to help faxor call the exchange or your information. But they do say by november, you should be able to do the whole process online. Talking with Phil Galewitz of Kaiser Health news. Walking through the opening of the exchanges. We want to hear from you if you have questions or comments about exchanges. Doing the lines a little bit differently in this segment. This who are in short, colin at call in at 202 5853880. Uninsured call in at 202 585 3881. You talked about folks having time to sign up. What are the numbers of what the administration thinks is going to sign up with the exchanges . 7 million was the estimate by the Congressional Budget Office. The Obama Administration has agreed that that is a good number to shoot for. By january 1nt, you have to enroll by december 15. This year, the open enrollment. Will be six months. You will have until the end of march to enroll. In future years, the enrollment will only go through december. You will have a full six months of this year. Are a lot of folks who going to enroll will enroll near the deadline. Here is a headline from the Washington Post, the white house criticss predicts slow enrollment. What is a good protection for tomorrow . Guest there is no incentive to enroll on october 1. 1 wasadline for october imposed by the administration itself. It was basically on the federal government and on states to make sure that their websites would be up and running. People, there is no incentive yet. This is not the first time the government has ever done an online enrollment Health Insurance program. They had Medicare Advantage and the Medicare Prescription Drug program for many years. Usually have a couple months to sign up. Most people dont sign up on the first day, no rush. Your calls and comments. Rene, mississippi, on our line for those who are in short. Insured. Questions. Ave two i am employed but i work part time and i have a high deductible insurance. My question is, since i have heard on cspan that in mississippi, there will be no Medicaid Expansion. There is only one Insurance Company on the market. For happens come tax time poor people who file insurance . My second question is, i know that there are new regulations 1 c 3 hospitals. Can you elaborate on those new rules and what the irs will be looking for yucca looking for . Guest you brought up medicaid. We have not talked about medicaid yet. Under this program, the Health Care Law had a provision that ofybody who made under 138 the Poverty Level, almost 16,000 a year. Would be on medicaid. Supreme court upheld the act, they may the medicaid provision optional four states. About half of the state decided to go ahead and expand medicaid. It is being paid by the federal years. Ent the first 3 after that, states will have to pick up the cost. Decided thatave they are still worried about the costs. Some people have political issues with expanding medicaid. In mississippi, the state has decided not to expand medicaid. 100 eople who fall under of the Poverty Level, they will not have an option. You will be in the same situation you were before. If you cannot afford private coverage and you cannot be on medicaid, you out of luck. Medicaid is key. The government expects about 9 Million People to be added to medicaid just in the first year. That is a big number. That is medicaid. The other questions you mentioned, hospitals. I am not sure what you are relying on as far as the rules. People wonder where does the money come from through this major expansion of coverage. Some of the money is coming from hospitals, money that hospitals has been getting from medicare to help pay for coverage to the uninsured and medicaid as well. Some of that is being scaled back. The hospitals in return are expected to have a lot more insured patients. Hospitals, medical device companies, health insurers, they are all kicking in billions of dollars over many years to help pay for the coverage. Oft she brings up the idea choice and plants. Why are some folks in some states going to have more choices in plans than others . Guest the law does not mandate that all Insurance Companies have to play it all markets. There is major variation in how many plans play in each market. The Affordable Care act, some incentives for Insurance Companies, a number of Companies Said that in the first year they want to wait it out and see how it works. Safe, chronically ill people, they are going to be the first ones to apply. Companies were wary. They want to step in a year from now. In some places there may only be a choice or no choice of plans. Aboutt of the markets, 95 of markets, there will be a choice of at least two or three. Host an example of what is happening in a state like kentucky. A unique lab for health law. Guest i went down to kentucky last week. Kentucky is one of 16 States Running its own exchange. We wanted to get an idea of how is the average going. They are spending millions of dollars trying to let people know about their new insurance option. They have started handing out thousands of these shopping bags to people as a way of promoting it. Inside the bag will be information on just like we are talking about how to enroll in the exchanges. They are actually expanding medicaid, information on how to enroll. One of the there, promotion events was at the kentucky bourbon festival. In talking to people there outside the booth where kynect was trying to connect people to new options, a lot of people were unfamiliar with the basic tenets of the Affordable Care act. They run familiar about october they were on for my or about 1 being about october the kickoff, starting in january people with preexisting conditions will be able to get coverage. The company can no longer take a Health Status into account for getting a price for insurance. From going to kentucky, this is familiar in other states, they are starting at scratch in getting the word out. Also, they think they are ready, they think they have the website up, they think theyre going to be able to enroll hundreds of thousands of people in kentucky. Kentucky is one of the poorest, sicker states. Their governor has embraced this. Other politicians, mitch m outspokenhas been an critic. They are hearing from some politicians about how the law is really bad and will bring down america. They are hearing from other politicians about how this will be a great thing. And people inmers kentucky are not surprisingly confused. Set upe have got lines for those who are insured and those who are uninsured. Four hour in0 short line. 202 5853881 for those who are uninsured. An independent on our uninsured line. Caller good morning and thank you for cspan. I am one of the uninsured persons. I would like to say that i have been on my job for like 10 years. I never could afford their insurance. This is even before obama care. I have been on my job 10 years. I never took their insurance. Theudible is 25,000 deductible is 25,000. The premium is too high. I always took the risk i cannot afford it. I have a family, i cannot and afford the insurance. I cannot wait until obamacare cons and im going to sign up first thing. We have to realize and be employersat most premium was always too i also have a daughter, she has been in her job for six years. She could never take her Employers Benefit because she could not afford it. Her kids are not covered, either. Host lets talk about premiums. What do we know about the premiums were going to see tomorrow . Term that has come out over the next six months is rate shock. Opponents of the law are saying that as soon as the exchange open, americans will experience rate shock. And 50 . L go up 40 in the last few weeks, the rate shock is turning out the other way. Getre seeing people coverage for free. Not only is the cost coming in lower, the subsidies that people can get, if you fall between 100 of the Poverty Level and 400 of the Poverty Level that is about 16,000 for an individual. In below. Are coming some examples that the government put out last week, a many citiesur in could get coverage in florida for like 30 for the whole family if they make under a certain level of income, about 50,000 in this case. People are being surprised. This is not for everybody. Older americans in their 40s, 50s, they are going to pay more. You brought up an important point about if you work at an employer now and you cannot afford the coverage they offer, you will have the option to go to the exchange. A lot of people are offered coverage at work but they cannot afford it and dont take it. There are two things going on. If you are finding coverage is unaffordable, go to the exchange. The other thing is the individual mandate. Most americans will be required for the first time to have Health Insurance. This does not apply if you are extremely poor and you cannot afford coverage. If you cant afford the coverage, you will be required. You will be required to show this when you do your taxes in 2015. With philing galewitz, Senior Correspondent with Kaiser Health news. Kaiser health news is an editorially independent news source and research and communications organization. They are not offended affiliated with kaiser permanente. We have been talking about the Affordable Care act in this segment of washington journal. You brought up the idea of subsidies. Lets talk about subsidies. How can the irs determine how many folks live in a household . Guest sure. You are apend on if oneperson, two person the government is going to be comparing the information that you fill out on these online data the the federal government has a lot of data on you. If you fill out taxes, they can look in your taxes. And thees can do this federal government can do this. They are also collecting other quifax, aon, from e Credit Rating agency. They are using Social Security. They have a lot data to compare what youre figuring out if you are telling the truth. What you are filling out to see if you are telling the truth. The subsidy is not based on your income today in 2013, it is based on your estimated income in 2014. Withially people relatively lower incomes, their income varies a lot. It is hard to estimate. All of this will be rectified when you do your taxes in 2015. If you estimated your income higher than it should have been and it comes at lower, you are going to get money back. And then vice versa. Host new jersey, independent on our line for those who are in short insured. Caller i hope that you will let me complete my line of reasoning. D throughhort insure my pension fund. Earlier you had a tweet when the question was asked, in terms of the debt ceiling, the money has already been spent. The Affordable Care act is going to be enforced. What is the big problem . My first premise is that the gridlock between the members of congress is a complete sham. Over the past 60 years, there has been a combined effort among democrats and republicans and i have a question at the end of this i hope you can answer to theg our country point of bankruptcy. They have done that so far. What will happen, i think this is an important question for c , the focused and on government shuts down, the debt ceiling is not raised, our theit rating is reduced, dollar collapses, it is no longer the reserve currency of is all ofat this becomes academics. The focus needs to be on what is the true intent of this terms oft in preserving the National Interest of our country . Guest lets try to address that. I cannot say what no one interest of the country is other than trying to preserve our democracy. The interest of the healthcare law was largely to expand coverage to people who do not have Health Insurance. The last count that census data about earlier this month, 48 million americans dont have Health Insurance. This has been climbing for decades. Going back all the way to Theodore Roosevelt have been trying to ensure that americans dont go bankrupt if they get sick. Administrationhe was to try to lower if not eliminate the number of uninsured. Eliminate allnot uninsured. We are not going to wake up in january 2015 and therell be nobody without Health Insurance. But this goes a long way. There are estimates that this could help way more than half the uninsured. Still some people will follow. Illegal immigrants are not covered by this. 8 million or 10 Million People. People who are offered coverage but cannot afford even with the are not affected by the individual mandate, they will fall out and not be in short. It does not help everybody that makes the biggest and the biggest dent in providing coverage since the creation of medicare and medicaid in 1966. The other big problem is health care costs. This healthcare law tries to highlight programs to change how it pays doctors and hospitals. To try and rein in health care costs. Most people would say we dont know for sure whether they will work, but they are an attempt. They will be tried around the country. Whatever they see working, they will try to explain expand. Host a few comments on twitter this morning on washington journal. Basic humanare is a right. Human health and live should not be traded forprofit. If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what the cost is when it is free. A question for you, mr. Galewitz. Has retired and his annual income is less than 50,000, can he get subsidies . Guest it is not assets. It is what your income is. I am assuming the millionaire is getting paid with stock dividends or has interest in the bank. I would find it unlikely that his income is not going to be higher than that amount. Assets do not matter. That is a key point. For medicaid in many states, they do look at your assets. If you have a car, you may be ineligible for medicaid. That is going to be taken away as far as medicaid as well. It will be based on your actual annual income. Host richard, pensacola, florida, our line for those who are uninsured. You are on with Phil Galewitz. As a veteran with a serviceconnected disability, i get all the federal subsidy i need. I do not need this. What mr. Galewitz has been pointing out is that Health Insurance Companies Benefit from the exemption from antitrust laws. Other than complaining, i will give you a couple steps on how we can improve Health Care Without socializing at. It. You cant repeal the Health Companies exempt from antitrust laws. You can allow states to buy as an aggregate. For selfemployed people, have a onetoone reduction. Mr. Galewitz keeps talking about free money, federal dollars. He is unimportant uninformed that there is no such thing as federal money. There is not one entity that makes a dollar host lets let mr. Galewitz japan. Guest i agree. It is all our money. All the money is coming from taxpayers. Dople who do not people not understand that a lot of money is being paid for coming from the industry. There is a new tax on medical devices bringing in 30 billion. There is a tax on Health Insurance companies, they will be paying tens of millions of dollars. Hospitals will be giving up some of their medicare money. That is over hundreds of billions of dollars. It is also coming from taxes on people on medicare who are rich, who are going to pay more. When i say some of the costs have come in, some premiums will be 0 it does not mean everything will be free. Premiums are only one factor that we pay in health care costs. People who are gotten sick, people on medicare realize this. They have good coverage and pay their premium. If they get sick and they go to the doctor, they end up with co pay after coping after co pay, they may be spending hundreds or thousands of dollars a year on copays and deductibles. When you go on the exchange and let the covers, look at premiums the copay if i have to go to the emergency room . One of the simple ways the exchanges are put together is all the plans are sold in different tiers. Gold, silver, bronze. The higher the tier, the higher the premium will be but the lower you pay out in copays. If you know someone who goes to multiple doctors every year and they see different proprietors and get different services, it may pay to spend more on premiums. On the backside, you will have much lower copays. A president , you may go to the doc there once for a check up. That is about it. It may a for you to pay less in premium and then pay more in co pay. There is no free lunch. When premiums are coming in lower, you have to realize that that is just one factor in what people will pay on health care costs. Guest elizabeth writes in over savings i have life and real estate. Will those assets affect how much my obamacare premiums will be . Guest no. Again, it just comes down to what your earnings are for your household. Your assets are not counted toward how much you will be eligible for a subsidy. From question on the fines ignorance is bliss when will irs start collecting fines from people who do not sign up for insurance . Guest you have to have coverage in 2014. When you fill out your taxes in 2015, there will be a box on their asking if you have Health Insurance. I assume youll have to put in your plan number or something that shows you are covered. Medicare, medicaid, and v. A. , private health plans any which way you are covered, you will have to put that down. If you check that you do not pay, the fine the first year is income,95 or 1 of your whichever is greater. In following years, the fine will go a little bit higher. Beer three years, it will 2. 5 of your income. Will not have a police force to collect the fine. If you are looking for a off your taxes in 2015 am a guess what, if you do not have Health Insurance, that will get knocked. That is how the government will collect it. Host shreveport, new york, republican, our line for insurer. Caller good morning. I am unemployed, so i buy my own Health Insurance, and it is a fortune. And you are single, not in a group, you do not have too many options. My coverage is very good, but i would rather have a huge deductible and a lower premium. Since i am not in a group, i do not have that option. I am not too optimistic that tomorrow i will have a lot more options, being not in a group. But i am wondering how that insurance is if my a certain amount and i am paying on it myself, will i be taxed on that . Guest if you have good coverage and you are happy with it in your plan continues the same policy and it meets the rules of the Affordable Care act, it can continue. The Affordable Care act wanted to limit how much you would pay out of pocket for the full year. I think it is about 6,500 people can pay outofpocket. That means that we will know longer see plans sold with huge 10,000 deductibles. The more common deductibles will or 5,000 at the most. The government is going to limit how much insurers can get you to pay outofpocket for the full year. You may be pleasantly surprised. It depends on what your income is now and what kind of coverage you have now. The new insurance will be relatively comprehensive. A lot of people fear that we will see skinny coverage, but the opposite is the case. Include things like hospitalization, doctors, prescription drugs, maternity coverage, rehabilitation. All these things will be in the coverage. Depending on what tier you get the time, butat you may be pleasantly surprised at some of the options. I am not sure you give us your age, but another option for people under 30 and people who find unaffordable coverage at work, they also can choose a catastrophic option. Ais will be as high deductible as you can come up probably 5,000 or 6,000, but it will be the lowest cost premium. Host lets talk about the navigators that are helping folks to understand the Affordable Care act. Here is a question from ron over are the navigators part of the Affordable Care act . How much funding for the navigators . And how are the navigators paid for . Guest this was envisioned by the healthcare law. This is a new system. People will need help. So when tomorrow comes and these exchanges open, yes, there will be a lot of online information that you can look at. That of people will find they can do it all online. There will be people who have never bought Health Insurance and they do not know what a co pay is or what a deductible is the man they will need somebody to walk them through it. So there is a position called navigators. Those are largely persons to explain some of the benefits and where you go for help. Roledo not eliminate the of an Insurance Agent and explaining what policy is best for you. And navigator will not tell you what policy is the best. They may point you to the options available in your state. The money came from the Affordable Care act interestingly, in 16 states a set of their own exchange, like kentucky, california, new york, oregon, washington, they have for of millions of dollars outreach, including navigators. In states that relied on the federal government host were showing the states that relied on the federal government. They are in gray. Texas. Florida, a lot of the south. Much more limited money. In florida, they have like 16 million, which may sound like a lot. But delaware has like 6 million. About 7 million for navigators. Who are the navigators . They sound like a mysterious group. These are groups that will be universities, colleges, religious groups, social service agencies, planned parenthood. A lot of these groups have been helping people with medicare for years and years. A lot of these groups are familiar with helping people understand some of the new Health Insurance options that are available. Hey had to apply for the money many states have had to go through background checks to make sure we are not sending felons out to help people with their coverage. They will be a good place to call. E. Gov will have a link to punch in your zip code to find out where to go for help. And then there are the Insurance Agents. Thousands and thousands of Insurance Agents are being trained on the Affordable Care act and explaining how it works. Insurance agents typically were not going into very poor communities and helping out the uninsured. Insurance agents are largely paid by commission. They were not reaching out to people going on medicaid, for example. That was the idea for navigators. But Insurance Agents will still have a role. There is another website, nah association of health underwriters. People can go there to find a local agent trained on the Affordable Care act to help them. Host some highly visible members of the Obama Administration playing the role of navigators. Here is a piece by joe biden in the Des Moines Register. Finally, all americans will have access to health care. He writes i do not expect the political debate about obamacare to end anytime soon. Republicans in congress are going to demonize it, run against it, do what they can to sabotage it. Americans will be able to see that the Affordable Care act is not actually about washington politics. It is about regular people shopping for insurance that they can finally afford. You can read that piece in the Des Moines Register by Vice President joe biden. Back to the phones, deborah is , republican on our line for those that are uninsured, North Carolina. Caller me and my husband, we live in our camper. You know that saying walking on thin ice, we are on that because of obamacare. We cannot afford insurance. But they will tell me that i will have to pay a penalty because i cannot get insurance. We do not meet the deductible ry year that the company that my husbands company has with their insurance. Paying a premium for something we cannot use anyway. Guest two points i will make. The individual mandate that requires you do have insurance, again, if insurance is unaffordable to you, the mandate will not apply to you. Hey, if people will say, cannot afford coverage and i am being required to buy it. That is not the case. Insurance cost you more than 9 of your income, you will not be required to have coverage. Arealso mentioned that you in a plan with a high deductible , so you still pay a lot of high outofpocket costs. Take a look at what will be available on the exchange. You may find that you have a better deal going through the exchange than you have through your husbands employer. Virginia, democrat on our line. Caller i surfed a little bit on the marketplace already. Last week am a i change my i am 52 years old. I changed my premier account with an Insurance Agent i have. Ad since the 1970s i switched one of their plans, from 400 a month to 200 a month. I am on Social Security. So my income is less than 20,000 a year. When i can tomorrow, go see the actual plans and rates, will i be able to surf the marketplace again and find something even less expensive premiumwise . My deductible did change on the for hundred dollar land from 2500 a year to 1500 a year. Also, when i can start with medicare in three years when i am 65, will i be able to get some discounts there, in addition to the supplement program . Guest let me start with the second question first. People on medicare are not affected by what is happening tomorrow. Theres nothing on the exchanges for people on medicare. No selling of Medicare Supplement policies. Nothing on medicare is available on the exchanges. Checks you would have to on a new Health Insurance program. If you committed yourself are ready for coverage for another year, you may want to see if you can get out of that. You will want to look at the options. In the exchanges, you will be available you will be eligible for the subsidies. If you do not go through the exchange, you cannot get the subsidies. If you just signed up for a new policy a month ago, you are not taking advantage of the new subsidies. That will be the key thing you will want to look at. Host another subject that might be confusing some folks are concerns about delays of different parts of the Affordable Care act. Can you take us through what some of the recent delays are, and do they affect any of these exchanges . No, they should not. In terms of what is available, no, everything that has been going forth now is there. Shop exchange for Small Business will be delayed about a month. Other states are having initial delays, but they expect that to be worked out in the next few weeks. Host other major delays or for other parts of the Affordable Care act, correct . Some of the recent ones for businesses. This should not have any impact on you going online tomorrow. For businesses, Small Business, there is no deadline. I talked about open enrollment of march. Ugh the end for businesses like that, enrollment does not end. They can always go back and check out their options. There is not a you can do right now anyway. If they miss january, they can sign up and february they can sign up in february, march, and so forth. When they turn on the lights at , there is still a lot that is unknown. Nobody knows. The government told us this will work and the systems will work together. There is always a little bit of unknown until we see it. We will see what happens. There a twitter is requirement that all Health Care Records be electronically accessible for the Affordable Care act . Given the nsa revelations, should we worry . Guest we should always have some questions, but, no, there is no requirement that all your records will be electronic. Go aouple using couple years ago, doctors in the country were getting billions of dollars to upgrade their offices. Instead of using paper and pen to take notes on you when you visited, they would use the computer. Many doctors, until recently, were still using paper and pen. It has been shown that things are a lot safer and more efficient if you have electronic Health Care Records. On thing that is important is that your health data should not matter. Youre not going to have to go on the exchanges and tell people what diseases you have. Nobody should be asking what your Health Care History is. Starting january 1, and no longer matters. It will matter if youre somebody who goes to the doctor more often than not. Somebody may ask how often you go to the doctor and what hospitals you use in your area. You will look to see if your doctor is in the plan you are looking to buy. In terms of your Actual Health care and what diseases you have, it is a new day on january 1, a new day buying insurance coverage. Host california, republican, uninsured line. News. hi, some kaiser were 66 years old. We were with kaiser or 20 years. When we got our medicare last is 144. Ser 300 a month deducted from our Social Security, which we have no option over. The navigators that are hired, their felons. Obama hired a bunch of felons to do this. They will be looking at the kaiser information. You say they are felons . Caller we have dropped kaiser. Under way, our copay has gone from 10 every time to 30. First, Kaiser Health news is a part of the Kaiser Family foundation. We have no affiliation at all with kaiser permanente. These are two completely different organizations. You mentioned you are 66 summit so i am guessing you are on medicare. Medicare has not been affected by this. Talking about copays going up because of obamacare actually, people on medicare, the copays are going down in many cases. One benefit was free preventative services. So the copay should be going down. As far as felons and navigators, like i mentioned before, the government has hired nonprofit groups often and other private organizations to help people enroll in medicare without controversy. Lot of states resisted. Florida and texas have tried to put up more rules which proponents of the Affordable Care act see as roadblocks. This is why some of the navigators have been somewhat slow. Not all the states will have all the navigators up by tomorrow. It may still be a few more weeks. A lot of these states just gather navigator money in the last month, so they are playing catchup. Host Phil Galewitz, Senior Correspondent with Kaiser Health news. You can follow him on twitter. Thanks for joining us this morning. Next in our weekly your money segment, we will be joined by peter coy Bloomberg Business to discuss the federal Government Debt limit. First, a news update. Alabamaical news Republican Congressman says he will not seek reelection after his current term. The six district congressman made the announcement during a live interview today on a birmingham, alabama tv station. Congressman baucus won his 11th term in office last november. He defeated a democrat challenger in an unusually stiff challenge in the gop primary. He is a longtime member in the House Financial Services committee. A federal trial begins today in cleveland for a man accused of 100 million multistate fraud under the guise of helping navy veterans. The defendant halls himself bobby thomson, but authorities identified him as a harvard trade lawyer and a former ella terry intelligence officer. He was arrested last year in portland or oh portland, oregon after two years on the run. Opening statements in federal court today for phase two of the trial of bp, stemming from the 2010 gulf of mexico oil spill. Bp will argue it was properly prepared to respond to the disaster. Find ephedrine is contending londonbased oil company in nordic decades of warnings about the risk of a deepwater blowout. U. S. Stock futures are falling sharply ahead of a possible Government Shutdown. Asian markets closed down today and european markets are performing lower. Ahead of the opening bell, dow futures are down about 140 points. Those are the latest headlines. Usually during speeches, theen would stand in middle of the steps with florence beside him. This is a perfect backdrop for the campaign. Not only did it show the human side of the party, the fact that they did not live in a mansion. They lived in a very normal house, like most the folks coming to see him speak. Florence was very much a part of this message. She was a very visible part of this campaign. She was always near him on the front porch when he was speaking. She gave interviews herself to magazines, especially womens magazines. She went between being the savvy politician to being the homebody, the wife some of the caretaker of the candidate. So she knew how politics work. The first Lady Florence harding, tonight live at 9 00 eastern on cspan and cspan3. Also on cspan radio and c span. Org. Washington journal continues. Host each week in this segment, we look at how your money is at work in the federal government. This week we will be looking at with the government does when. Our money runs out were joined by peter coy, Bloomberg Businessweek economics editor. Thanks for joining us. Treasury secretary jacob lew has set october 17 is the socalled date for the debt limit. What actually happens on october 17 as we look ahead to this debt limit that all . Guest assuming that date is correct, it is the date in which the federal government can no longer borrow. At that point it will still have some money, approximately 30 billion, just kind of cash sitting around. It can use that cash to pay for bills as they come in. Of course, that money will eventually be exhausted. The projection by the Congressional Budget Office is that 30 billion will be gone by month. Of the what jacob lew is saying is that we need to raise the debt ceiling so that the u. S. Can borrow what it needs to pay its bills. Explain how the Payment System works. It is not that a set amount of money goes out on a different day, but that different voles are guest due on different days. Guest on different days. Guest it is like your own household. You could have bills due on the first of the month or the 15th of the month, whatever the date is. Outgo is notnd the perfectly synchronized. That is why you need a little breathing room here. When the federal government is running a surplus, tax revenue was coming in and bills were going up. But the reverse, the expenditures are greater than the revenue. That is why we have a growing debt. But the government, like a household, cannot afford not to pay its bills. Like a household, it needs to have the ability to borrow when the mortgagecover and the electric bill and Everything Else that a householder government has to pay. Host the Congressional Budget Office laid out a few of the different days and the bills that are due on those different days. October 1, about 42 billion due to be paid out in medicare payments and pay for active duty military. Retirees,or military for veterans and Social Security recipients. Skip ahead to november 1, 67 billion dollars due to be paid out again in medicare payments, pay for active duty and military, Civil Service and military are tyrees, and and Social Security benefits to go out. Peter coy, how much does the debt ceiling need to be raised by for the federal government to continue doing work as usual . Guest there is really no set amount or the point is, if you raise this by a few hundred million, you are buying yourself a fairly short amount of time. Unless you really want to go through this exercise every month, and i do not think very many people do, the sensible thing to do is raise it by a healthy sum. I think the numbers that will be about 1ound are trillion, a very large mountain the point of view of a household but not that big when you measure gets the current debt of 16. 7 trillion. Host were talking with peter coy of Bloomberg Businessweek. Past raise us to ceiling. Octobercome 2008 3, 2008, a raise to about 11. 3 trillion. 2010, 14. 3 trillion. Today, that is pushing upwards of 16 point 7 trillion. Is that correct . Guest that is correct. Host for the federal government to continue doing its work, talk about what happens at that deadline is crossed and the debt ceiling is not raised. What are the options at that point . Guest that is a good question. A lot of people confuse the Government Shutdown with the debt ceiling. The shutdown is what were dealing with today. If congress does not pass the continuing resolution by the end of the day today, certain government functions will be shut down. But that is not really what runs the Financial Markets. What runs the Financial Markets is the prospect of the u. S. Hitting the debt ceiling and having nowhere to go in not being able to pay all its bills. That will damage the Credit Rating of the United States. Lets talk first to answer the question about what would happen at that stage. One answer is that the government would try to prioritize. It would pay some bills and not others, just like a household it gets in trouble. You pay the one thing you most fear getting cut off on and let the others slide. It would be really humiliating if the United States were pushed into that position. You would have to wonder what would be cut off. There would be a huge fight in this country over what would be cut off and what would be paid. And no matter what the choices were, there would be an impression around the world that the u. S. Was not good for its commitment, incredibly damaging. , jacobretary of treasury lew, has said, no, were not going to be prioritizing payments. All or nothing. Give us a clean debt ceiling raise so we can pay on all our commitments. Host we want to hear your comments and questions for peter coy of Bloomberg Businessweek as we talk about the debt limit debate, this looming fight coming up in the middle of october. Phone lines are open. Democrats, 2025853880. Republicans, 2025853881. Ndependents, 2025853882 lets go to our line for democrats. Florence is in West Virginia, waiting to talk to peter coy. Caller good morning. My question is, how can we continue to help other countries that our expenses, were Social Security has been paid, we do not have the money at the first of the month can you give me explanation as to how that happened . Guest i think she is asking why we are giving foreign aid at all. Aid is a worthwhile piece of the federal budget. That is really a political question. Andargument of Republican Democratic president s alike over decades and centuries has been that strategicallygiven foreign aid has humanitarian benefits as well as diplomatic benefits. It can help the United States nds abroad and avoid military conflicts. Host your piece last month had the headline five reasons the debt ceiling fight is scarier this time. We showed a graphic earlier talking about past debt limit raises. Why is it scarier this time . Comes so close up against the Government Shutdown that may happen by the end of the day today. You know, another is just this sense that a lot of people have that it is going to be ok. We have gotten past debt by a veryn the past close call, but there is a sense maybe on wall street that, hey, those guys in washington may jabber a lot, but they eventually come around to their senses and do the right thing. The treasury market has been. Uite calm about this the yield on treasury securities have not gone up, which means investors around the world retain confidence in the United States. That is a good thing. On one hand, we want the world to have confidence in american debt. But it is a bad thing to the not holdat it does congress feet to the fire and say, guys, you are running big risks here. Florida on ourm line for republicans. You are on with peter coy. Caller he made a statement a little bit ago that we should look at our own budget in consideration of how the government is ran. But in my budget, if i do not have enough money, i cannot go out and borrow money to pay my debt. That is with the government should do. If we cannot afford something, like obamacare, we should not have it. We should look also in the and cutnt with spending out some spending that we do not really need. I do not need to know why lesbians are overweight. That was a several Million Dollars study. We need to take a look and cut back on some of the things. If we shut down, then we shutdown. Said,president obama has talking about the rays of the debt ceiling, that this is money that congress has already sent out the door. Explain that. Guest the caller makes good points, that there are ways to cut the federal budget. Ae issue is that there is process for doing that. There is an appropriations process. A bill is raised in the house for spending and then goes to committee. The house passes it. Goes to senate. Senate disagree and comes up with a slightly different version. They go to conference. There is a vote. It has to pass in both houses. The president can sign or veto it. This is civics 101. But that is not how things are working these days. What is happening now is the bills getting approved by both houses. It is getting signed. After the money is already approved, people are saying, oh, wait, wait, we did not want to spend that money after all, so were just not going to pay for it. And a net show, that is the problem with the debt ceiling. You cannot decide after you have already agreed to pay something after you have already spend the money, in fact, and a bill comes in and you are not going to pay the bill. That is where we are now. Host peter coy, Bloomberg Businessweek economics editor, joining us from new york this morning. Were talking about the debt ceiling for about the next 40 five minutes or so. Explain the difference between external debt and internal debt to the United States. Guest the number you keep hearing, 16. 7 trillion, is all kinds of debt. It is the kind that the federal government, which is us, of course, owes to the general public. That would be china, japan, england. Or two other americans, but the generally to outside government. Then there is a big chunk, about 5 trillion to my being owed within the government. Like one part of the government the it to another part of government. A big chunk of that is the Social Security trust fund and the medicare fund. The idea being that we know that people are aging. They are going to need Social Security one day. So we put it in a little account saying that we are acknowledging this coming obligation to , and wereseniors going to put that obligation on the books of the federal government. So it is an accounting device. It is not money that is owed in the same sense that we owe the chinese. Because Social Security could be cut. A lot of americans worry there will be cuts. We cannot go to china and say, oh, we decided not to pay you after all. That is the difference. The internal, many owed within the government, and the external which is owed to the rest of the world. Chart from 2011 talking about where our external debt was at that time. China owns about 1. 3 trillion of u. S. Debt. Brazil, 152 billion. Two hundred 16 billion dollars. Interestingly, the united kingdom, 133 billion of u. S. Debt. This is to give you a sense of how much other countries own of u. S. Debt. Back to the phones. Dolores from massachusetts on our independent line. Caller good morning. Why doesnt the Government Cut back on some of the departments that it has ofated that are duplicates departments they already have . They keep adding more and more epa,ations, more and more more and more debt. As far as Social Security is concerned, if they had left it alone and not borrowed from it around andthey turn theas a locked box, interest would have well taken care of all Social Security. Guest were going back to the question of the level of spending in the United States. This is very much a political question and i cannot possibly try to answer that or take sides. Different people have different views about that. The real issue now is is this the time and place to draw a line in the sand on spending . The republicans have concluded that, yes, it is. This is because it is so important to raise the debt ceiling. The republicans are saying this is our chance to get what we want and what we think is right for the country. Most countries do not have a debt ceiling. They just pay the bills that toy incur and do their best have as little debt as they can get away with. The debt ceiling was put in place to create situations like this, to raise pressure on both , to give a party that might not have a majority the ability to put pressure on the majority for concessions. You can argue whether it is healthy or unhealthy, but its very existence leads to the kind of showdown we are having now. Question about where the money comes from when we raise the debt ceiling. Why cant we just print more money . Arent we doing that every month now . Guest right. Ok, it is really important to distinguish between the banking system, the Federal Reserve and the banks, and how money is created in a modern capitalistic economy versus what the government spends. Congress does not have any right to print money. The Federal Reserve is in the business in combination with private banks, creating the money to the economy needs to operate. A lot of people look at that and say there is something fishy about that. But actually, it is completely normal. If we had only the number of dollars floating around that we had in the year 1890 or something, it would be far too few for the size of the economy we have now. Creation, as long as it is done in keeping with the growth of the economy, is perfectly healthy and, in fact, necessary. You do not want it to be possible for congress to, by itself, print money. The question you started with was, where does the money come from when the United States raises the debt ceiling . All it does is give you the head room. What happens at that point is the Treasury Department will sell a bond, which is exactly the equivalent of going to a bank and borrowing money. Because in the government sells bonds, it is getting cash up front from the buyers of those bonds. In return, promising to pay interest on them for the life of that bond, whether it is a two year note or a 30year treasury bond. That is what were talking about. Were talking about giving the government more head room to do more borrowing to pay bills that are in excess of the revenue coming in. Host we are walking through the mechanics of the debt ceiling debate with peter coy, Bloomberg Businessweek economics editor. He has been there since 1989 year before that he worked at the associated press. Michael is up next from michigan on our line for democrats. Caller good morning. It seems to me that the republicans are truly just mad about sour grapes about the election. A lot of the blame is being placed on obama. But what really could obama do . Our government is set up to where the president has limited authority and ability. Congress controls the money. They want him to cut off his own head. Who would do that . If your employer asks you to chop off your arm and i will let you get overtime, would you really do it . Guest i would not do that. I think he makes a good point, which is what should the president do in a situation like this . The president lets skip past there is a question now in republican strategy. They do not like obamacare, clearly, and john boehner, the house speaker, wanted to tie obamacare to the debt ceiling, but other members of the House Republicans wanted to tie it to the Government Shutdown, what we are facing today. Lets stick with the debt ceiling, our topic for the hour. He could, the president could whatand give republicans they want. For example, a oneyear delay or. Defunding of obamacare that would avert the crisis, but at what price . It would simply make the tool of a threatened debt ceiling even more potent. People would say, well, you know, back in 2013, barack obama gave in. And five years later, whether it is a democrat or republican in the white house, people will remember that. They will think, we in Congress Know how to make president s cave, so we will do it again. About the idea of ignoring the debt limit . That was in todays New York Times oped page. It says it may be illegal, but it would be the least bad of obamas options. President possibly ignore the debt limit . Guest the executive branch is in charge of carrying out the laws of the United States. Those who advocate things like putting the are president in an impossible situation. You are imposing a limit on how much debt we can incur. Yet, you are telling him to enforce the law of the country. You cannot have him do both those things simultaneously. So the president faced with this impossible situation am a they would argue, can legitimately , ie a choice and say, ok will have them keep paying the bills. That would certainly provoke impeachment proceedings. I do not think it would take the republicans in congress more than about 30 seconds to say, ok, you try that and were going to try to impeach you and get you out of office. It would be a constitutional crisis. It would be ugly. You think things are ugly now, it would be even uglier then. I see why he is saying it. Bluff. D be seen as a on the other hand, both sides are bluffing here. As you get closer and closer to the edge of the cliff, the bluffs tend to get more and more dramatic. That peace and todays New York Times. Cynthia is waiting to talk to peter coy. She is from colorado on our line for republicans. Coy, you have said some interesting things this morning. I think it is insisting that we have gone from a 8 trillion debt to 17 trillion debt under democrat rule, since Nancy Pelosi Pelosi took over in 2007. And republicans get all the added 3 bernanke has trillion to the balance sheets. That much cash. You keep saying it is political, but if the media would report accurately what is going on with the doubling of gas prices, with unemployment actually at 14 to tripling ore debt doubling in just five years. Obamas poll numbers are at record lows. Then he would not be propped up to be in the position he is in. Everyone is getting cut back to part time because of obamacare. My own family is experiencing this. And almost every family out there that has someone working is being impacted by obamacare. Host we got your point. From new yorket on our line for independents. Caller thank you for taking my call. I find it hard to watch cspan. I really do like the channel. But in the last couple days during these crisis times, you have the hard left liberal economist and newspaper reporters on, making this picture that president obama is a responsible president who is pressed into a corner. He started off in 2008 saying george bush was a moral immoral. And thes in the Office Appropriations process does not work because they cannot get a bill through the senate. The president is using powers from the executive branch to make decisions about money. He just gave dream hundred Million Dollars to teach right last week and for some reason. Only in this administration and only with the Media Coverage that were currently getting can a president who has run mess up to 17 trillion in debt, take credit for reducing the budget. Meanwhile, the reduction in the budget to reduce the deficit is only the result of the sequester and the tax increases republicans agreed to last time. Know for those who do not a Bloomberg Business week is, let those who do not know know what you do. Guest Bloomberg Businessweek magazine is owned by bloomberg lp. They have terminals with lots of data and news going to Financial Companies around the world. Bloomberg business suite Bloomberg Businessweek was purchased in 2009 by bloomberg. We have a website is netsuite businessweek. Com, and you should check it out. Host a call on our line for democrats. Thatr like the collar just called, i have sat here and listen to a lot of bs from the right. Talkinge nothing but points and lies and misinformation. It is unbelievable. Congress, the house of representatives, are the ones with the purse strings. So how could a president , in trillions, rack up 17 when he has gotten is out of two wars that the Previous Administration started, Health Care Part d that the Previous Administration started all of this debt that was not on the budget, yet he is being blamed for everything. Can you explain with the deficit is and what the debt is for some of these morons on the right . Guest obviously, i am going to stay way from the simply political stuff. Host can you talk about the blame game going on in washington . Guest the last thing she mentioned was the deficit and the debt. Just a word on that, basic facts. The deficit is the difference in any given year between what comes in and what goes out. Covered byrtfall is borrowing, and that borrowing goes on to increasing the debt. Overebt is being paid off time and new debt is being incurred. On any given week or month, the United States is paying off a lot of old debt, but the new debt it takes on is bigger than the old debt. So that is what happens over the years. But the deficit in the debt, the point is that they are intimately linked, one leads to the other. From ohio on our line for republicans. Caller as far as this Government Shutdown, people are not stupid. We can see that if you should on the national parks, places where people go and spend money in the gift shops and the restaurants and everything, we know that there are other ways to make cuts. That it is so obvious that the people in charge now are going to shut those things down to say, oh, look, people are hurt and cannot visit the national parks. There are plenty of other ways that they can cut spending without shutting down the places where people actually go and spend money. Host what is Congress Efforts when it comes to the government shut down debate, the shutdown that might happen at midnight tonight what is this telling you as you look ahead to this debt ceiling debate coming up in the middle of next month . This i was wondering, and is maybe being too optimistic here, whether the shutdown could be like a vaccination you get, like a flu vaccine . It hurts when you get it, but it protects you against something worse in the future. Wouldea in that scenario be we have a big scare of a shutdown going on today and it displays everyone involved boy, you know, we really need to get our act together and act responsibly as a country, find a solution everyone can agree with, and just avoid another fight two weeks from now with the more important debt ceiling. Again, that could be just optimistic, but that would be a nice way for it to turn out. Host james from virgin you on jamesrom virginia from virginia. Up 30somey put some bills. Now they are going off on the republicans for doing all this. I tell you what, i hope they shut her down. It is time they shut it down. Host were talking with peter coy this morning. He is from Bloomberg Businessweek. If you have questions about how the debt limit works, he can walk you through it. Jan from washington on our line for democrats. Caller good morning. I have been hearing that president obama can do the debt. Eiling himself if that is what he can do, why doesnt he just do it and avoid all this . Guest we talked about that a little bit earlier. Was on the same wavelength as this woman, sighing white saying why doesnt the president just blast through this, and i said that could provoke some sort of a constitutional crisis. Hearing aboutbeen the extraordinary measures that treasury is taking leading up to this october 17 deadline. What does extraordinary measures mean . Hit the debt, we ceiling last spring. Ever since then we have been running on fumes. I should say the treasury secretary been using extraordinary measures to keep the ball rolling, to keep the government in operation. There are a bunch of them, but the biggest one is essentially federal Civil Service Employee Retirement funds. Not making the normal contributions to those funds. And lately reducing some of the securities and thei in there. Sort of dipping into the cookie jar. That has been done before. The money had been put back. You have to make the current and ure Civil Service retiree there is a limit as to how far you can go with that. We will hit that limit october 17. The we heard a lot about nations credit downgrade after the last one. Are we in for another credit downgrade . Guest it is interesting, in 2011, the less serious debt ceiling crisis, we averted it. Obviously, that was passed at the last minute. Standard poors downgraded the u. S. Credit by one notch. It was not because of a fight over the debt ceiling. Theas because s p felt that plan that the government had to deal with longterm deficits was inadequate. Might in this case, if we actually did default , that would be a much more dramatic event and probably cause all the Credit Rating a coupleto drop notches off the u. S. Credit rating. What that does is it makes u. S. Borrowing more expensive. Host on twitter could the guest give a quick review of the Bowles Simpson warnings . Maybe we need to keep this in mind. Was a right, that Bipartisan Commission named by president obama early in his term whose goal was to come up romh a plan to get buyin f both democrats and republicans. Of at was a little bit toxic document. No one quite wanted to go ahead and put into place the plan that inles and simpson came out favor of. By the way, the plan was never formally adopted. It did not get what was needed for it to be official. The idea was very much about we have big problems in the United States in the long term with imbalances. It is an aging society and has huge military commitments around the world. We have an infrastructure that is deteriorating. All these things mean that it is not so much the current deficit that we worry about. It is the idea that those deficits go on as far as the eye can see. What you want to do ideally is maybe run a little bit of a deficit in a recession. Is pay thatt to do down, pay off that debt during good times. What they were saying is we are not on the trajectory to pay off time. Debts in good they want to lower the trajectory of spending to right the ship in the long run. Host a few minutes left with peter coy, Bloomberg Businessweek economics editor. Jean on our line for republicans. Caller i would like to figure out what the impact on our that selling is the drawdown from afghanistan and iraq . Thank you. Guest obviously, were spending muchand iraq is written already down. Afghanistan spending is going down now. That helps. But nothing will happen between now and october 17 that is meaningful at all towards the debt ceiling. There is a tiny bit of impact that we will have in not paying federal workers over the next couple weeks. But pretty much october 17 is the date. Do you think, what will happen in the next couple weeks . Guest oh, boy, that is a good one. My guess is that there will be a shut down tonight. Tworience says these last to five days. Lets hope it does not go longer than that. There could be this vaccination scenario where lets approve a clean debt ceiling raised. We will live to fight another day. The economicsis editor. I appreciate you coming on to join us today. Thank you for having me on. It was enjoyable. You can check out his work at businessweek. Com. That is going to be our show today. Well show you right back here [captioning performed by national captioning institute] tomorrow[captioning performed by national captioning institute] 7 00 a. M. Now welltake you like to be house [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2013]