Transcripts For CSPAN Tonight From Washington 20101020

we have a lot of people watching on abc 7. we have our panel. we want to get right to it. we will start with opening statements. each candidate will have one minute each. >> this has been a tough and negative campaign. but there is a lot at stake. because of this devastating recession, people have lost their jobs and homes and are struggling to make ends meet. tragically the decisions in washington, d.c. over the last decade have made things worse. exploding budget deficits, shipping jobs overseas, and a record job loss has decimated the american middle-class. the last decade, but my opponent has been a part of some of these decisions. you deserve a senator who will tell you the truth, who will fight for you every day. and who will stand up to the special interests in washington, d.c. you may not always agree with me but you will know where i stand. i cannot fit. -- promised to fix all the problems overnight, but no one will work harder to make sure that you and your family have a shot at the american dream. >> i want to take the leading -- the league and channel 7. our debt is now in the trillions. we were a creditor nation and now we're one of the top debtors. how do we preserve the american dream when the american -- the average american already owes the government $42,000? i will vote to spend less, borrow less, and to tax less to help save our economy. i'm a fiscal conservative, a social moderate, and the national security off -- by centrist who will bring a thoughtful leadership to the united states senate. >> we will go to questions right now. featured a number of attack ads and a notable lack of discourse. if to what extent should you be held accountable by the voters of illinois for the negative tone of the campaign which has been disappointing to virtually everyone? >> i think this campaign has been about resentment background, but it will be about economic -- economic philosophy. if you are happy with the selection of the government right now, trade and syntex, accelerating the spending, then my opponent is your candidacy. but there is a growing voice in illinois that want a check and balance that does not think we should raise taxes in springfield, like my opponent would like, or in washington, d.c. half of all the jobs -- 80% of job losses, we did not know how the current congress has helped them at all. >> this has been a brutal campaign. but it is that way for a lot of families. we'll try to talk about ideas and investing in their early childhood education, changing the way things are done in washington, d.c. congressman kirk has a different agenda. to hear congressman kirk say that he taxed less, are of less, and spent less is a tremendous irony. there is no one who is taxed more, spend more, and baltimore -- and you can call yourself a fiscal conservative all that you want. we went from record budget surpluses to record budget deficits when you voted for every one of the george w. bush tax cuts. to claim you are a fiscal conservative when you voted for those is the true. if you want some fresh leadership and new ideas where we put in that sector a private sector jobs, then i would be honored to have your code. >> let me confront the elephant in the room, the character issue. if congressman kirk, what you tell about a man who embellishes his resonates -- resident? >> i misstated a part of my military record. it is a painful process. i learned the lessons from that. i'll apologize to the people of illinois. i released all 21 years of my officer fitness report, service and afghanistan and more. it is made me a better congressman an advocate of veterans and men and women who wear the uniform. the national security of the united states has been alive work. >> i am very proud of the community bank that my father started years ago. no one has ever suggested the bank has done anything illegal, illicit, or improper. the difference between myself and congressman kirk is that i have already told the truth. values matter. as i mentioned, you may not always agree with me but you will always know where i stand. i will always tell you the truth. people are sick and tired of washington, d.c. politics as usual. congressman kirk has not answered to the voters on what he did not tell the truth about his record. i hope to have that discussion tonight. >> each of the campaigns have been dulled by personal storage from the past. mr. kirk with umbrellas of his resume, and mr. giannoulias over failures at the bank. looking back on how you responded to those revelations coming out in the media, do you feel like he should have done anything differently? may have -- make any of your statements have discouraged voters? >> when i ran for state treasurer, i should have done a better job explaining the way that community bank approved the not alone. but again, we need to be there and i understand that this is politics. no one has accused my father's business of doing anything illicit or improper. congressman kirk and karl rove have set a lot of things that are untrue. i am very proud of my father's business. i'm very proud of the fact that he came to this country and has helped thousands of people achieve the american dream by helping them buy their first home. it is easy to cherry pick a few individuals out of thousands and make a nasty political ad. but in the business under will take you that mistakes are made. it's unfortunate that there people that you never twisted you that and business with. but if you talk about who is right to move this fall or, to help middle class families, there is a stark choice in this race. congressman kirk wants to work with for others. >> there is a big difference here. i made a mistake and i corrected it. we are trained to take command and be accountable and responsible. that is why i corrected the record. the difference between me and my opponent is he had a number of mistakes. onking his bank's future risky loans, and longs to well- known convicted mobsters, like giorango. he went to see him in his business where he ran a prostitution ring. he took no responsibility whatsoever. when we saw one program lose $70 million in college savings, those families that trusted you -- that was not your fault either. the differences accountability. i have made mistakes but i have owned them and correct them. and the opponent, nothing is his fault. >> typical washington, d.c. change the topic in sleight of hand. the congressman says he has been accountable. i have seen that congressman to this before and this is impressive. none of those reports answered in the of the questions that plagued him throughout this campaign. if looked through the reports. nothing there says that he served in the iraq or that he was shot up. nowhere does he was shot at at all. on " meet the press," -- >> please focus on your own situation and what you would have done differently. >> i should've done a better job of explaining how community banks work. he says he is holding itself accountable and that is not true. david gregory asked him whether not he was shot at. the congressman never answered the question. why with this record which you not tell the truth? why would you make all this stuff up? were you shot at or not? >> a man who spends most of his campaign for the senate criticizing my military record, and yet he never served a day in uniform. >> were you shot at? >> i put my life on the line for the united states as many of my fellow veterans have done. your entire campaign -- you went back in the rear with the gear and i and sustain you made that decision. and you look at all these bank loans to felons and mobsters. the people that were your business associates, and there on national tv, you did not know the extent of the criminal activity of the people from a federal license institution that didn't -- that then collapse, ending you transferred up $390 billion bill on the back of the federal deposit insurance commission. i think you have some apologizing to do. >> can we get your answer to the question or to mark >> the question is to congressman kirk. yet made fiscal responsibility a centerpiece of your campaign, citing your opposition to the obama administration's economic stimulus because of its cost. what different courses of action would you have supported in 2009 to stimulate the economy and get unemployed americans back to workers a margin i think if we have a much smaller bill with a much larger amount of money for infrastructure, it could gain bipartisan support. a surprising amount of the stimulus spend money on social programs that had been rejected by the congress for many years. the failure of the stimulus -- remember, we were promised that unemployment would top out at 8% by the administration. in illinois, it is 10%. we see wasteful spending about what this endless tried to spend money on. a real failure of its record. we could have built a bipartisan record on that bill, but instead the lasting legacy of the stimulus will be a near trillion dollar debt on the financial future of our kids. much of that money borrowed from creditors who gave it to local sam expecting to be repaid with interest by our kids. >> again, facts and records matter. congressman kirk voted for every one of the bush programs that took us from record surpluses to record deficits. president obama was handed a $ 1.5 trillion deficit at the day he was taking office. again, the recovery has not been a perfect bill. the question is, what would happen if we have not had it? economists will tell you that the recovery act helped them avoid a second great depression. >> congressman kirk, can you be more specific about what you would have supported in terms of getting the economy right again? >> one of the tragedies of the stimulus bill is that it limited projects to shovel ready products, which means the big payoff projects. in illinois, it would of been fully funding the o'hare modernization project. do you think that they should have been funded -- if that had been funded, we would have a long-term economic payoff. instead, what happened, especially the house appropriations committee which wrote most of the legislation was told, spent nearly 1 trillion dollars and take every discarded social spending program off the table. remember, every dollar by this congress, 40% is borrowed, most of it from abroad. one of the things i did right after the stimulus was i went to the bureau of public debt and i ask the person who borrows money, how much do we have to borrow per week? between servicing old debt and new, we have to borrow $160 billion a week to make sure the treasury does not run out of money. that is irresponsible in my view. a growing chorus of people that think -- think that that is completely understandable. >> a follow-up to treasurer giannoulias. when you simply be a rubber stamp for the obama administration. >> of course not. i have said repeatedly that i am going to vote my conscience, and that i disagree with the administration, then i will say so. i will not be a typical washington, d.c. party person. here is my plan. i believe in the tax cut for small businesses that hire right now. our meat -- believe in a payroll tax holiday. i think we need a permanent extension of the r&d tax credit. there is a lot of money sitting on the sideline. we need to encourage the private sector to start hiring, to grow this economy, to invest in our infrastructure, to create jobs for people hurting any real way. congress has forgotten how tough it is out there on main street, where unemployment is under 2% in illinois. >> let me follow-up for mr. giannoulias. you're closer to the president than any other candidate. you're one of the few candidates who has -- who is actually advertising his relationship with the president. but no matter what happens, there will be fewer democrats in the house and the senate. as a friend of the president, what midcourse correction with you about to take? give me tw a specific. >> we are doing -- we had enormous challenges when the president to come. there was an omnibus spending bill which at thousands of your march. i would have voted against it. i think that president obama should have vetoed it. >> via talking about going forward. >> we need to create an urgent since he for or clean energy future -- a sense of urgency for our clean energy future. we need to do everything to incentivize the private sector to start hiring. that means taxes, a better business environment, that means increasing access to capital. the biggest complaint i hear is how tough it is to get a loan, how tough it is to get a line of credit. there's a bill that would provide $30 billion to community banks, and tax breaks to small businesses, something that congressman voted against, it is completely deficit neutral. those of the measures that we need. a trillion dollars is sitting in wall street banks. we need to grease the wheels of the private sector. >> same question to you, congressman kirk. the republican party is " foolish" if they do not follow the dictates of the tea party. what is the tea party get right and what is it wrong or charges which had spent less, borrow less, and tax less to help this economy. we saw $9 billion tax increase. i think that threatens a double- dip recession. i think if we look get the need to cut spending, not cut spending across the board, even including the department of defense. i voted to not have a second engine for the f-35 fighter. i strongly supported secretary .ates'plan to we need a line item be done for the president. i hear that and republicans should support it because any way that we reduce spending, it will help up the economy and the long-term future of the united states. so that we do not become such a detonation. >> i am not sure got a direct answer. i will try one more time. mr. giannoulias, on the president's basic approach, what kind of midcourse correction does he have to make? >> learning from mistakes in the past, i think there is a focus on health care reform. i think that for the long-term economic sustainability of this country, it is an important step. i think we should have a laser like focus on creating jobs. people are not going to pay their mortgages and we will continue to have a housing market collapse. if people are not working, their kids cannot afford to go to college. losing jobs is more than affecting -- losing your jobs. it is affecting our communities. we need to do everything to create private sector jobs. >> what to the tea party get wrong? >> i think the focus on physical -- fiscal conservative this is good. but i have been very independent. i have backed the s chip program lower income kids having health insurance. -- i voted to cut oil subsidies for big oil companies. in the and, i have one of the most independent voting records in the house of representatives, and why the "daily herald" endorsed me over my opponent. >> illinois is at this school basket case. a $13 billion deficit, $6 billion in unpaid bills, and unfunded pension liabilities. the federal government found time and money to bail out big banks and wall street and giant insurance companies and auto companies. to what extent is the federal government responsible, if at all, for bailing out virtually bankrupt states like illinois? under what conditions would you support of bailout so there is not governmental armageddon in states like illinois? >> the illinois economic situation is terrible. my opponent is the state treasurer who has presided over much of this. on pay bills by the state of illinois have gone from $1 billion to $5 billion just this year. all three credit ratings have downgraded the state of illinois debt. recently the state of illinois went hat in hand to european creditors and ask to borrow money. they had to pay higher interest rates in mexico, a country whose economy and currency collapsed in 1982. i do not think the federal government should further bailout such fiscal irresponsibility by the state. i think that we should roll back much of the spending decisions made by governor blagojevich, now an indicted and convicted felon, and return fiscal responsibility to illinois without someone bailing out even more irresponsible decisions led by the current state that -- the current team that runs the state of illinois. >> we have some enormous this challenges here in illinois. while i do not have a vote on these issues, we talked about pension reform from the very beginning. we have doubled our national debt and we had voted to cut our discretionary spending were needed. i've cut my work force by 17%. to hear congressman kirk really does these bailouts, he voted twice to bail out the biggest wall street banks. he voted against a recovery act which provided an urgently -- emergency stimulus to states and in some policies that have been devastated. this is not a problem that happened over the last five years. this is a chronic underfunding of the pension. going forward, states provide emergency aid to a lot of families. social service providers, school districts, so the federal government needs to be responsible party. my biggest problem with the recovery act is that there was no budget constraints or accountability to make sure that you only get this money if you make some corrections to the way that you operate your yearly budget. >> you do not think that is a bad idea? some have suggested a race to the top to bailouts. prove to me that you can cut and you can raise revenues and streamlined, and then we will talk about a line of credit. does that make sense? the rule of bailouts of any sort? >> which is set at first makes sense. that was an opportune time to use the federal government leverage to make sure that there was accountability to make sure that states and municipalities live within their means. >> congressman kirk, are there conditions under which you would support federal assistance it all in the form of a line of credit if they cut budgets and streamlined and raise revenues? would you entered time the idea of a credit line that will allow us to keep going without decimating education and services? >> certainly, i voted for a measure of this summer that provided some assistance to the state. but it was completely revenue- neutral, and it was a surprising set of decisions to identify many stimulus programs which were a complete waste and cut funding and provided funding for key programs. my opponent just criticized me for voting for the t.a.r.p. program. and yet during the "chicago tribune" enforcement's session, he admitted that he would have voted for it is well. and yet he criticized me for that vote. also in the session, they ask him to name one spending program or bill that he could identify. he cannot identify one. painful to watch, which is why i think they endorsed me over my opponent for this office. >> the dream act has become one of the flashpoints in the contentious debate over illegal immigration. do you support or oppose the measure question mark how would you vote of this came up in the senate? >> i am in favor of the dream that. i am proud of the leadership that senior -- senator durbin has shown on this issue. people want leaders, the point here where you stand on a position. they ask congressman kirk where he stands on the dream act and he said, he has not read it. that's not leadership. these are young men and women who will have a shot at the american dream. >> mr. kirk? >> first we have to restore the trust of the american people and the ability to administer our own borders. by now that trust is completely broken. there are tw of candidates in this race. i went to school in mexico and care very much about that country. president calderon has took on the drug cartels and said that he does not have full control of four of the 32 states of america. we've seen phoenix become one of the kidnap capital of the western hemisphere. we do not want that kind of violence spreading across on to our side. remember our status in illinois as a state with the highest per capita a gang members of the state. if we restored that trust, if we close down the border, if we make sure that for the homeland security of the united states, we accomplish the fundamental mission of understanding who is coming in the country, we will reward illegal immigrants who play by the rules, then we open up the rest of the debate. but until we restore that trust, we should not move forward. >> if it came up for of the, what are you going to do? >> this is not the time to do this. we have a decisive bipartisan majority right now for border control, for making sure the united states can defend itself and make sure that the illegal entry into the united states is not possible, but they all the other problems that come with it and are secured from the american people. and we have a set of leaders in washington right now that are out of touch with the american people. i will tell you that the rank- and-file members of both parties that i work with are ready for board control measure. they are ready to establish trust. once we did that, the rest of the debate can happen. until that time, we have leaders who are not interested in border control, who want different agendas. and i think we will have new leaders and, and then we can move forward on this problem by restoring that border control trust. >> if this came up in the next few months, you'll but no. >> we need border security first. there is a bipartisan majority available of democrats and republicans that want to get that done first. >> this is what people are sick and tired of in washington, d.c. we have asked him a simple question and he refuses to tell us about the dream act. i am for the responsible passage of this. absolutely we need to secure our borders. but just tell them the truth. let them make their decision on election day. you may not always agree with me, but i'll always to a united position. i will not put my finger in the wind and take a position the way the congressman kirk has. he then runs to the right of the senate candidate and says he would never vote that way again, only for the narrow interest of his district. he said he wanted protect 600,000 teachers from losing their jobs, and in 18 hours a letter he voted against them. that is not leadership. -- let us hear about the dream act and whether you were shot at. >> order control first. >> you describe your campaigns voter integrity program, saying that it would focus on the south and west side of chicago where your opponents might "jigger the vote some wide." this area a uses a lot of -- has a lot of african-americans who have been largely voted democratic. can you explain that this program is or is not targeted african-americans question -- it is not. this is for statewide voter integrity effort to have poll watchers across america and across the state of illinois to make sure that we have a free and fair election. it is no surprise that what the last two chief executives of the state of illinois convicted of felonies, that we have a corruption problem in our state. according to the justice department, we are one of the six most corrupt states in america. we became a punch line on late night television. it is interesting that my opponents and after this was announced said that he is going to launch his own voter integrity operation, and i think it was quite surprised when i said that was good. if we have a republican and a democratic poll watcher in precincts across illinois, we have a shot at a free and fair election. in the state now known as the most corrupt in america, that is a good thing. >> it is clear what happened. congressman kirk got caught on tape says that he wants to put voter integrity programs. on the south side, on the west side of chicago, and -- in areas for what he called the same goons and thugs that happened in florida. there's never been an accusation of fraud on the west or south side of chicago. we should be encouraging people to load. that is unacceptable. it is dangerous. it flies in the spirit of our democracy. >> we had a conviction just in chicago recently. >> not from the south or west side of chicago. >> you of all people should know that there is corruption the state of illinois. that's an amazing statement that someone would assert that there is no corruption in the state. >> i am asking you where is the voter fraud? >> one of u.s. corn to represent illinois in an all-white senate. are you going to do anything extraordinary to represent african-americans, given the fact that there will not be any of them there? >> this is an historic seat. i've spoken to president obama with this. i worked hard to make sure that he was president of the united states. i talked about what kind of senator that one for the african-american community and the state of illinois. the one true fighter for middle class families. >> what steps would you take to make sure that voice is heard? >> i am going to work with president obama and work on problems like promise neighborhoods and fully fund the youth thomas at, work hard to get guns off of our streets, and provide men and women in the city options. >> i think we need an otter pinero project entrepreneurial -- i think we need an entrepreneurial renaissance in the inner city. one of the things i would bring to the senate would be in the vacant property, commercial, for two years, certified by the mayors, no federal taxes for the next 10 years if any investor comes in. i think we also need to work with the communities that dry up the supply of recruits for the games. one program has helped to this. we need an effort to take out the big cocaine leadership's themselves. they prey on kids in junior high school. >> this question came to us from facebook. let's put it up on the screen. it's a 22-year-old college graduate. this question is for you, mr. giannoulias. i'm part of a generation of people were becoming known as a lost generation. we're suffering from unemployment or underemployment. this campaign has been about making the other guy look back rather than telling us what you want to do to improve our situation. we need to hear more than create jobs, cut spending, or the typical political talk. he is asking you to throw away the script. >> my answer would be, we need to focus on education. a decade ago, we were the no. 1 country in the world when it came to the percentage of young men and women who graduate with a college degree. we're no. 12. a number of programs like race to the top are smart getting school districts and states to work together. i liked the model that focuses on after-school programs, and i think we need to increase the size of the pell grant, invest in community colleges, all models that show that for every dollar you invest in early job of education, there is a $7 return. we need to move toward a clean energy future, invest in infrastructure -- those changes will not take place and that is the fundamental difference in this race. >> the next generation has been sometimes called the ninja generation, knowing come, no job no assets. we need to not allow kids to drop out after two years in the high school. we need to get many more kids to join their ranks of college- educated americans. one of the key ideas i would like to bring into the senate is reigniting public-private infrastructure for infrastructure development. in many ways, we've forgotten our own economic history. we all know the lincoln administration because it was the victor in the civil war and the emancipation proclamation. the third biggest thing that it did was the 1862 intercontinental railway. that was the ultimate public- private partnership. gov. daniels has done a very good job having economic growth in his state of illinois has fallen behind. it is that kind of new thinking that we need to bring to the senate. >> mr. kirk, challenged the lost generation. >> stay in school. i voted to lower the cost of student loans and to increase the amounts of pell grants. i do not think that we should adopt legislation about complete government takeover of all student loans. that eliminates options that were very much needed for students. we also have to look east as well as west. the big export markets of the united states are in asia. understanding these societies and making sure that we can expand plays a key role in exports. caterpillar, and john deere, and other communities based on a company's. we need to have key free trade agreements like the one the president obama has put forward with south korea, with panama, with colombia, all of burning opportunities for americans. no one expects government to solve all their problems but we need to fight for them. we need to increase the size of programs and invest in job training programs. i mentioned investing in infrastructure, but also in the next generation of jobs. manufacturing has changed forever, financial services of change -- where the next generation of jobs coming from? china is the largest producer of solar panels in the when the war. others are investing in the industries of the future. we need to encourage the best and brightest to come here to get a ph.d. is and technology and then we can compete. we need the talent to stay here. we to fully fund our community colleges, make college more affordable to everyone, to get a chance to get a good paying job in this country. >> riding and which it bought about both answers. >> in the desert of polarize politics, there is one oasis -- both parties have overspent in the federal budget for years and years. if you face these multi- trillion dollar shortfalls, where do you look to cut? what place to you look first, and what is sacrosanct? what would you not touch? congressman kirk, you go first. >> indeed spending reductions and no department is exempt. i talked about the cuts that would make in the dod defense -- dod program. the totally wasteful sugar programs in which i had an ally with mayor daley. i became the first member of the appropriations committee to not have been earmarked. i led the fight against the bridge to nowhere. and it was the bridges to nowhere and they will not be built. we need a line item veto. president clinton used to strike up federal spending. the supreme court eliminated it. but i the new version i hope will be approved by the congress. a balanced budget amendment is the right idea. we need to really get the policies through on an up and down vote. i can keep going on. >> mr. treasurer, if you have a similar list? >> we need to immediately promote economic growth. people are not working, they end up paying taxes, and didn't have jobs. >> the budget cuts. it is an important investment to make. we need to enact, pay go legislation. the third thing we need to is the task cuts for the wealthiest americans need to expire. we do not have $700 billion to give to millionaires and billionaires. we're going to need a bipartisan bill and take a long hard look at some very difficult decisions that we're. have to make. this country is not live within its means for a very long time. we're going to have to take our medicine and make tough decisions. >> corruption is the big story in illinois but also happens that the federal level. what single ethical or transparency-related law or statute or provision would you fight for when you get to dc in the hopes of giving people a better government or to mark either one of you first. congressman? >> help to get through legislation to cancel the pension of any congressman convicted of a felony. there are 21 felonies identified by the justice department. we also need to it and the earmarks system which has become horribly corrupt with the bridge to nowhere, the rain forest in iowa, the miss texas museum, etc. we need more transparency but the federal campaign side. i voted with my party to back the fine gold-mccain campaign finance legislation. we need to disclose within 24 hours on the internet. i supposedly in this race, which have all the donors disclosed. >> this is the starkest choice in this race. there going to see independent expenditures that are dealing congressman kirk's commercials every single day. they're having a dangerous impact on the future of democracy. i'm very proud to be the first candidate in the history of illinois to not take money from federal lobbyists and corporate pac's. they called him a. the trough, one of the most prolific special interest raisers in the history of the u.s. congress. i am fully in favor of a comprehensive campaign finance laws. i think that was a dangerous step backward. congressman kirk is taken over $10,000 from the citizens united pac. we need to have safeguards in place to know who is spending this money. congressman kirk has yet to disclose that. until there is a filibuster reform, things will not get better in washington, d.c. we cannot allow to let karl rove come to town and steal these elections. >> federal judge stop the don't ask, don't tell legislation. the obama administration wants congress to act. we'll explain whether you support or oppose the court decision, and how you would vote on repeal in the senate. >> i am for the immediate repeal of don't ask, don't tell. i i agree with our military leaders. we have kicked out over the years almost 14,000 men and women -- 14,000 men and women who are willing to die for this country. we have told them they are not good enough. meanwhile we are letting felons and other individuals in the military. it is wrong and goes against the spirit of what this country was founded on. it makes this a less secure nation when we need the right personnel. we should not tell anyone who wants to die for this country that that is not acceptable. i'm for the immediate repeal of don't ask, don't tell. >> i've voted to continue the current policy and i'm confused to what the administration's policy is right now. secretary gates said that he wanted to wait until the military leaders put forward their solution. then the administration used -- move to block that federal judge. i am totally confused as to where the administration is. i think we ought to listen to the men and women who run the u.s. military. it is one of the most complicated organizations on earth. it operates in all 24 time zones. if you remove a policy, speaking from some military experience, you have to look in the eyes of a first sergeant or a chief and save what is the new policy? how will we run the ship or this platoon today? without replacement, you cause confusion in the ranks. g-20 stand on gay marriage? is that the federal government's responsibility or is it a state- by-state basis? >> i am in favor of full marriage quality. i believe that this country was founded on fairness and treating people equally. that is how my parents raised me. i think we will look back in 20 or 30 years and be embarrassed. am not focused on any church religion. if we can have certain rights and of the city hall and have certain visitation and pension rights, we have bigger problems to focus on. we will be looking back and be embarrassed that we did not act sooner. >> i oppose gay marriage and i support civil unions. i do not think we should have a federal takeover of all marriage law in the united states. the federal government is already trying to take cover too much. >> i'll go back to-political effort says in allowed into this citizens united decision. i do not think that congressman kirk was able to fully address the issue. do you believe that these entities such as american crossroads should disclose their donors, and who is behind him? and would you urge those who have assisted your campaign to reveal to illinois voters who is actually behind these negative ads? >> all the groups and dream of illinois, the big unions should reveal their donors and should be fully transparent. there's a big difference between the paul harvey rest of the story on my opponents, he says he does not take money from federal lobbyists. but he has taken tens of thousands of dollars from state lobbyists. he says he does not take money .rom corporate pac's he is aligned with the unions, he would not take p money not takeac's. it is the rest of the story that you have to look into with my opponent. the bank loans, the federal lobbyists, the state lobbyist -- no corporate tax but you take a ton of money from union pac's. >> he does not come close asking your question. he did a beautiful turn around. call roca's come to illinois and spent a ton of money to convince the people of illinois to their next senator should be. there is a citizens united decision which i am vigorously against. i think this step backwards. we need to put some rudimentary safeguards in place. say who funded it dealt with the corporation decide who is your next senator. he was called a pig at the trough, and he is afraid to take them on. he is bought and paid for by wall street firms, which is why he voted for the bailout probably twice, then voted against suspending executive pay bonuses six times. and then voted against wall street reform. he is owned by the health insurance companies. this is typical washington, d.c. politics. people are sick and tired of it. >> this election and serving in the united states senate -- can a constitutional comment -- amendment to nullify the effects of citizens united should come up, how would you vote? would you vote for a constitutional amendment? it would basically nullified citizens united. >> first of all, i would not. i'd think the key issue is disclosure. we need reforms that have every can edit or every group speaking before elections to disclose their donors. and we should do it within 24 hours on the internet. on this debate, alexi, there you go again. you have criticized me a second time for voting for the t.a.r.p. money. you told on camera to the chicago tribune that which you have voted for it as well. are you flip flopping on that now are charging you're getting off the subject. as the question -- answer the question about the constitutional amendment. >> i'm in favor of the constitutional amendment. it is a dangerous decision by the supreme court. we're seeing what is happening on our airwaves. karl rove helped destroy the economy and now he is repaying the favor with millions of dollars. center durbin has worked hard on campaign finance reform. i would be in favor of that amendment. >> whichever of you wins will have the vote for supreme court nominees. the most controversial nomination is back in the headlines. we reported that the wife of justice clarence thomas called the anita hill this weekend and asked to apologize for her husband. >> i think that that as long ago one pour far away. my philosophy on judges is that judges should make decisions based on the interpretation of paul law, not making new law. edw should be made by electio representatives who stand before their congressional districts. in consideration of the justices we just had, so the more your was to forward-leaning on making you a lot so i would of a poster. with justice kagen, i applied the hamilton standard that said it is not up to individual senators to make the appointment. it is up to them to see if the president's appointment is appropriate, is not subject to family favor or corruption, and see if it is the best appointment that this president could make. i was not announcing that i would favor justice -- i was announcing that i would favor justice kagen. we need to defer as much as possible to the elected representatives of the american people to make the laws, and then the justices interpreted. >> i'm trying to get a sense -- which you have voted for justice thomas? >> i think he has confirmed that he is this a good supreme court justice. i am looking bored at assessing the nominations that president obama would make. i felt that he erred with some more -- with sotomayor. it was his choice to make and i thought kagen was a pretty good one. >> is there any member of the supreme court appointed by the republican president that you would of supported? >> i like to agree with congressman kirk. that is passed. i want to see -- the senator has import decisions to make with the supreme court. the constitution is a living document. many people who are fair minded and understand their decisions have a very tangible effect on people's everyday lives. the biggest example of that is the citizens united decision which is having a devastating effect on our election in the future these decisions have a real impact on our lives. >> ls the question again. is there any supreme court justice appointed by republican that you would have supported? i cannot think of any of hand. the court right now is doing a lot of damage to our democracy. >> it is time for our closing statement. >> thank you for having us. let me just say that tonight we saw a stark difference between myself and congressman kirk. who he wants to fight for and who i will fight for. it is not about me for congressman kirk. it is about people dealing with real problems. i had the chance to meet a young lady named kelly. she lost her job. seven months pregnant, just married, she lives in your district, congressman. she has not been able to find a job for a year. hundreds of resumes sets out, she is not sure what will happen to her family in five years or two years or even one year. to her and her daughter, naomi. karen does not expect the federal government to fix our problem in her life. she does not won a bailout or a handout. she wants to know someone is fighting for her. she wants someone taking her struggle and her anger to washington, d.c. your struggle is my struggle. your fight is my fight. your answer is my anger. i will make you very proud of me is your next united states senator, and always help people who won a shot at the american dream. >> congressman. >> this could be the most important election for the united senate in america today. did what federal court ruling, if you have the opportunity to vote twice for the united states senate. you all left the center for six years in january, and a center for 60 days right away. you may have heard the congressional leaders are planning on a lame duck session of congress, a new round of huge spending and taxing bills that i think will hurt the economy and threaten a double-dip recession. their agenda could include a trillion dollars spending bill, a bill to take away your right to a secret ballot in a union election, and at the beginning of the debate, a new national sales tax called a value added tax to drain the u.s. economy of money and make sure that the government is as large as the one in european states. i think that we need of fiscally conservative, socially moderate voice that will oppose the national sales tax and roll back spending in washington. >> chairman, thank you very much. i want to thank my fellow panelists. a lot of thank yous. thank you for watching. please go out and vote on november 2. that is all for now. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> the midterm elections art two weeks away. each night on c-span, we should debates from key races around the country. tonight includes pennsylvania governor, one is the state attorney general and the other is the allegheny county executive. in an hour, debates among u.s. -- florida's senate candidates. after that, wisconsin's candidates for governor. mr. barrett is the mayor of milwaukee and scott walker is the county executive of milwaukee county. the cook political report rates this race as a tossup. later, a briefing on the effect of latino voters on the election. some news from the political wire. joe says that is leading a pack to me -- joe sestak is leading a pat toomey. in august, he was trailing by nine points. now more from pennsylvania and the candidates for governor. of republican and democrat. the final debate was monday in philadelphia. mr. onorato is serving his second term as allegheny county executive. this is an hour. >> a live from our studios in philadelphia, the pennsylvania gubernatorial debate. tonight's debate is brought to you by the league of women voters and wtbi -tv. the candidates are -- republican tom corbett and democrats dan oronato. the moderating tonight's debate is our action news anchormen jim gardner. >> good evening. let me tell you the roles the candidates have agreed to follow tonight. the format for this debate will feature questions to the candidates for me and our panelists. both candidates will have an opportunity to respond to each question. the candidates's responses can be up to 90 seconds and there can be occasional need for rebuttal, limited to 30 seconds. finally, we have closing statements at the end of our broadcast. the responses will be timed. the order of questioning was determined by a coin toss and let us begin with mr. corbett. my first question to your, sir. most people in this panel would agree that more voters feel disaffected from their political leaders and perhaps from the political process and then at any time in recent memory. acknowledging your thoughts on this and your honesty, can you say that at no time have you been part of the problem and, as governor, what would you do to be very much a part of the solution? >> as governor, the first thing you have to do is become the leader. the leader of the commonwealth of pennsylvania and you have to make difficult decisions. the next governor of pennsylvania will have to make decisions that are not necessarily in their political best interests, that are going to have tremendous political consequences but have to be in the best interests of the people, and particularly, the future of pennsylvania -- our children and grandchildren. i have been campaigning all over the commonwealth exactly on that point. i am not in this race for me personally. i am in this race for my children, my grandchildren that i do not have yet and their grandchildren, because i believe that kids of any need to be, a shining example, a standard that other states want to measure themselves by. we have fallen back further and further and the packard a lot of that has to do with what has been happening in the past and a lot of rancor out there. i do not believe i am part of that ring preparancor. and my leadership as attorney general, my leadership as united states attorney has a demonstrated that what i'd do, the decisions i make, are in the best interests of pennsylvania. i promise the people that if elected governor, i will continue to operate in the best interests of pennsylvania. >> mr. onorato? >> thank you. there is no doubt that people are not worried and upset. they are medicare's . and washington. the unemployment rate in this country in the state -- i spent the last several years governing the second-largest county in pennsylvania. i am the elected executive. i have to make hundreds of decisions on how to move the region for. i was able to reform government and taken on members of my own reparty. i consolidated and saved $6 million per year, downsize the payroll, clean up old industrial sites. we got control of our property taxes. we are the only county in pennsylvania that has not raise property taxes in seven years. one of the reasons why unemployment in my county is below the state and federal number. as governor, i am prepared to bring those talents to reform the harrisburg. we have the most expensive legislator and united states. i want to reduce debt by 20%. we have to create an environment for the private sector to bring jobs to pennsylvania. we need to make sure that our regulatory agencies are responding to our companies in a timely basis. if a company asks for a permit, it needs to happen in four years and not two years. training our people for the jobs of tomorrow. >> i want to use a bottle time not to ask the question again but to ask it in a way that i feel you have not addressed, and that is if you go through the streets of southeastern pennsylvania, and the report on action news at 6:00 highlighted the problem, there is a lack of engagement among the voters. why are the voters of this part of the state seemingly not oblivious to, although many are, but not just in -- just not engaged in their state government to the extent that they care about what is going on here tonight? mr. corbett? >> that is a very difficult question because i am sure vern was trying to determine what was causing that lack of interest in the state white race. i believe that these races, if you look -- interest in the statewide race. if you go back a years ago, you had the former mayor of philadelphia running in that race. i think the people obviously knew governor rendell very well. they are wondering who we are. it is up to convince them to vote for a. >> there are a lot of races going on. there is the senate race and a governor's race. there are a lot of crazy attack ads on tv. some people are probably disgusted and they are trying to weigh the information out there. i have been spending a lot of time in the southeast over the last two years and have been talking about what i want to do to reform harrisburg and how will affect south eastern pennsylvania. we have 60 more days. we will be campaigning, getting our message out. it is a field operation. >> thank you. not your question to mr. onorato. >> i want to shift things to social policy. two men were convicted last week in a hate crime cases. they beat a latino. gay teenagers are bullied, leading some to commit suicide. my question is, what specific steps would you take to promote tolerance and increase diversity and with that extend to signing an amendment to the state's relations act that would outlaw discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity? >> mr. onorato? >> i havve already done it. as the executives of allegheny county, we pushed an anti- discrimination bill. we did not discriminate based on orientation or gender identity. as governor, i would sign it into law and push for that amendment because we should not discriminate against anybody, including people with sexual orientation or gender identity. we talk about anti-bullying legislation. no one should have to be intimidated at school or at work. no one should lose their jobs or their apartment or their house because of their sexual orientation. as county executive, we have done at the local level and as governor, yes, i would sign the amendment to make sure that we do not discriminate against anybody in the commonwealth. >> mr. corbett? >> the question is an interesting one. it is one i have been dealing with myself. as you know, as the attorney general, we have already taken an active participation in going into the schools of pennsylvania into dealing with the issue of cyber bullying. it's one that has developed in the course of the last six years as the growth of the internet and computers in the house have taken over and become a forum where children can talk to each other on a regular basis. you add to that the electronics that are used now with cell phones and facebook pages and so forth, and it is one that concerns me. and i think education, and the governor should participate in education. we need to include that more in the education system, in the schools, and teach about diversity, to teach more about tolerance with each other. we have within my office at the attorney general of civil rights division that participates along with other agencies in the human relations commission with the investigations that have been going on across the commonwealth of pennsylvania. so we have been very active in that respect. and i think it is very important we continue there. although, i will tell you that i do not know that an amendment is what would make enforcement any better. it is just we already have laws on the books. adding more laws on the books does not equal enforcement. we need to actually enforced. >> crime, violence, and guns and pennsylvania. last year, many deaths and the commonwealth, 3000 wounded. what changes would you make to gun laws and pennsylvania, specifically the city of philadelphia? the right to legislate against the sale of handguns and philadelphia, separate from hunting anin outer stretches of the state? >> the supreme court of the united states ruled on whether cities can set up their own ordinances a separate from that which the second amendment allows for. that was clear in a recent case from chicago and from washington, d.c. it is clear you cannot. no, i would not be creating or passing a new gun laws. as you also know, here in in philadelphia at the request of the legislature, my office created a task force as partnered with the philadelphia district attorney's office with the police department. we are the agency that is going in and taking the guns off the street. recently, we issued a report where we have a 1300 active investigations. we have a 500 active all rest, 300 convictions. we've taken nearly 1000 guns off the street. it is enforcement of existing laws. also, the courts have to help. when we get these individuals across pennsylvania it using firearms in the active commission of a crime and harming people, we see, in some court systems, a lack of full enforcement on that. i think philadelphia is a prime example. >> what about the florida gun laws were people can go on line from pennsylvania who had been rejected for licenses and pennsylvania, they can go get one online out of the state of florida? your critics say you have the power to change that with a penny. >> the critics are wrong the restrictions -- the restrictions in florida are greater, because your demonstrate that you've taken a gun safety course with 12 hours. i do not remember the exact number. yet to provide a fingerprint. they do a background check. they see if you have any convictions and see is if you have ever been committed for mental defects -- 302's in pennsylvania. at that point in time, we of reciprocity with florida. i have inherited that reciprocity agreement from my prior attorney-general. >> mr. onorato? >> i totally disagree with it, and i think he is wrong. the supreme court made it very clear that we have an individual right to own guns. they also made it very clear that we have the right to have reasonable regulation. as governor, i support reasonable regulation, such as mandatory reporting of lost or stolen guns. if someone steals your gun, you should be required to report it. if you want legislation that puts a child safety locks on guns, that is reasonable. if you look of the florida loophole, we could not disagree more. i believe the attorney general has the right to close that loophole tomorrow. if he thinks he does not, i would ask him to stand with me to lobby legislation to close that. there is no reason why the department of agriculture in florida is getting permits to carry concealed weapons and pennsylvania. i think it is wrong. i will close that loophole immediately as governor. >> i have one comment, because dan said this on saturday -- he said the department of agriculture. it is not just the department of agriculture. it is an agency that licenses many other activities in florida. florida made a decision to place that there. it is not like a bunch of farmers are going out and making that decision. >> first of all, i, from a part of a state that understands hunting. i respect the sportsmen and women. i will respect your right to have a gun in your home to defend yourself. that is what the second amendment allows. i will make sure that we honor that. as regards the department of agriculture and licensing, does it make a difference? should florida's departments dictate to florida who carries a concealed weapon? i do not think so. >> i think it is probably time to talk about the economy. both of you have spent a lot of money and time attacking each other in the area of job creation, but i think this would be a good opportunity for you both to detailed specifically what you would do to create jobs. and i think most would agree that it would take more than lowering the state's business tax and to accomplish that. how many jobs will your administration's create in four years, and it would be very instructive for me anyway, if you would give me a number. and specifically, how will you go about achieving that? and i ask the question first to mr. onorato. >> well, i cannot give you a number, because we do not know the future. i will tell you what we have done an elegant the county. we are in the worst recession since the great depression. by upon a distorted my record on television. we have lost jobs like every other county has done because of the bush administration. allegheny weathered the storm much better. our unemployment rate is well below the federal and state levels. as governor, we have to create a better business? anbar mccrary i will lower the corporate net income tax -- i will lower the corporate net income tax. i will look at the corporate loopholes occurred i will look at our regulatory agencies. we need to make sure there deate ep is more business friendly. we need to train our workers for the jobs of the future. we need to use our community colleges and using our curriculum to match the needs of companies. we can focus on the jobs that are here today and going for. -- goigng forward. that is a potential of 80,000 new jobs. in the industry understands that we want them to hire pennsylvanians. >> mr. corbett? >> if we can predict how many jobs we are going to create, we should be in another business speaking who will win the world series, but we know it will be the phillies. the difficult part about this is we have to create the climate for the private sector to grow. and you cannot create the private sector climate for it to grow when your taxes are the 11th worst burden in the nation into job creation is 47th. there is a correlation between the two. we need to start lowering taxes. there is a list of taxes. you can look at them of our website. but corporate net income tax. the capital stock and franchise tax. the inheritance tax. we have to reduce those. we have to bring legal reform to pennsylvania. tort reform would be important for the business community to stay here, attract new businesses and to grow the young entrepreneurial businesses that are here. along with that, you'd have to bring regulatory reform so that the agencies understand that they have to work with business and have to participate in the making sure that they follow the rules and they do not have to be adversarial. they can produce those permits and a much more timely fashion. i am the only one that has ever worked in a regulated industry. i understand when the regulators continued to harass you when they are not helping you. they are more of an adversary than they are trying to assist you in growing the businesses. so i will not give you a number, but i do know what -- the potential we have in this state with the citizens it, we have a potential for hundreds of thousands of jobs in the future of pennsylvania. >> how about giving me a date? how long will it take for you to lower the series of business taxes to create a climate that is more conducive to creating jobs? >> just like giving you an exact number, it would be difficult at for me to give you a timeline. >> why is that difficult? >> because it would depend on what is on the table. i will push to lower the taxes so that we are competitive with states around us. the question is, are some of the corporate loopholes on the table? you are not elected dictator. you will probably have a republican senate. we do not know what the house will be. i will put my proposals afford to do the things we talked about, and push hard and try to use the bully pulpit of the governor's office to get done what i want to do. the loopholes, you could lure them faster. >> could you give me a date? >> no. we would be fully and the reporters or the viewers if we tried to give you a date, but we need to cut the spending. pennsylvania has increased its budget from $22 billion to $28 billion in seven years. we cannot sustain that. we will cut spending. we will work with the legislation to cut the size of state government, to cut the costs of state government, to cut the spending of state government, to be accountable for the money people pay into harrisburg and to make sure that money is used the way it is supposed to. >> your question goes first mr.to mr. corbett. >> harris byrd has been in the news nationally for all the wrong reasons. it is close to declaring bankruptcy. 19 cities and towns across the state are in distress status. mayors are asking for more taxing authority, but so far the general assembly has shut them down. do you favor more taxing options for pennsylvania's me sodalities? which ones? if not, what you say to those cities that are broke? >> i think we need to take a look at what we call at 47. we have many cities, unfortunately, that have been in act 47 status for a long time. i think we have made some mistakes there. we have not been responsible with them as a state, as state agencies overseeing to make sure that they develop their plan that they can come out of that, the missable for a bankruptcy -- the municipal form of bankruptcy. the state has a responsibility to make sure they reduce that. secondly, we need to work with those municipalities that are about to go into it, to try to help them. am i looking to taxes? nori, not right now. we need to look for efficiencies and how they are purchasing and how to manage their businesses are much better, minister local government than they have. keeping in mind, that one of the things we do for a state government from the legislature is set down unfunded mandates. maybe we should look at those mandates and say, since it is underfunded, you do not have to do that. we can take a thorough review of that entire area appeared >> being the county executive, iran of local government and i have watched those unfunded mandates come down from the state government and i will not do that as governor. i work with a lot of in his abilities. as governor, i will provide incentives towards distressed municipalities, cities, and encourage them to think outside the box. incurs them to start thinking about consolidating -- encourage them to start thinking about consolidating departments. if cities want help, we need to say that they have way too much government. we have to look at how we provide services. it does not work anymore. we have to be more efficienct and consolidate services and we should incentivize it so that local in the fatalities have options. if they were different options for how they find their governments, i would give them different options they could pick from, but they have to give the deficiencies in return. it allows everyone it to decide their way to move forward. i'm glad we're able to be creative in allegheny. were the only county in western pennsylvania that held the line on the property taxes while every county is up over 30%. we did that because we were efficient, we cut government, and we reform occurred >> are you saying that he would be in favor of more tax options, but it must be done on a county level? for example, the county sales tax? governor rendell supported that. >> i do not use the word more. what it is is are there other options out there? i would sit down with the county commission association and say, what is the best way to run these areas? before i do anything and before the taxpayers get involved, we will demand efficiencies. we will demand that they consolidate services and lower the cost. the way we were able to avoid raising the property tax for that long is because we consolidated the missable function -- the municipal function. they decide what they will mandate. >> do you want 30 seconds? >> that's fine. >> mr. onorato, can you give me three things he will cut to make efficiencies in government and reduce the size of the state government? and u.s. said specifically that you want to reduce the size of a legislature, ask them to vote themselves of office. it sounds a lot like donk quixote. it seems almost impossible. >> i do understand why people are cynical when we talk about downsizing, because it is never happened. now is the most expensive legislation in the united states. it is how many people work for and how much we spend. they told me seven -- they told me the same thing seven years ago when i told them that i would consolidate 10 offices down to four. my own party. they said i would never do it. we did it within 18 months. i got it within my county council. got a 15-0 vote. voters, 72% approval decided to streamline government three times are different. people know they are hurting, unemployment is high. they want to see harris burke reformed. they do not want to see your taxes. in the legislature, my benchmark is 20% savings of what we spend. the legislator is a sitting on $200 million dollars per that goes back to the general fund before we cut into any more programs. i want to look at the turnpike commission. are those agencies necessary? can we be more efficient? i will find ways to be more efficient just like it did for the last seven years running the second largest county. >> school funding? >> where do i stand? the one area that i will not cut is the school funding. and i will continue to fund the basic funding formula, make sure we expand early childhood, and that will pay for itself if we get more kids into early childhood, all the studies show that they have a better chance of succeeding. if we get the before kindergarten, they succeed academically. i would much rather invest taxpayer dollars on the front end, pre-kindergarten, as opposed of paying it 10 times more to build jails. we that backwards right out in pennsylvania. >> c? mr. corbett? >> is this rebuttal? >> full response. >> i think we need to take a look at the budget and work with the agencies where there is waste and abuse going on. i always use my friend jack wagner, the auditor general of pennsylvania as an example of the ineligible payments being made at the department of welfare for medicaid. 14% of the people that were receiving benefits for an eligible. the secretary of welfare indicated it was 4% but that was $300 million. i tend to believe that the auditor general understands that better. we will take a look at all those different areas. i indicated in my reform plan that we will work with the legislature, cut their spending money without having receipts for it. we will cut that, reduce the size of a fleet of pennsylvania. but also i want to institute zero based budgeting. have the agencies reported to us what they need to do and what they do not need to do. there is a lot of ways. i will give you an example of the office of the community of economic development -- 300 programs. that cannot be a number that is a proper in this day and age. >> school funding? >> it will take a look at the school funding. i am not committed to the cost -- i do think we need to invest in early childhood. i have been a longtime proponent of that. i came to harrisburg along with the salvation army back and the mid-1990s tried to get money for the early childhood initiative in allegheny. in long term, this is what i call a generational change. if we invest in 3-year-olds, give them the foundation, when they get to school to grow and live and to educate themselves along with the school system, we will save ourselves money over a generation. >> you talk about school funding and that raises the notion of property taxes, and i think it is fair to say that for so many homeowners across the state of pennsylvania, the most onerous tax is the property tax. it goes up every two years. so many older people have long disconnected their personal tie to the school district and they feel it is inappropriate for them to have to find a school district on a yearly basis. for some years, we have heard people running for public office say they will reduce property taxes. on surprisingly, it virtually never happens. i want to ask you why or what is wrong with pennsylvania house bill 1275 which would eliminate property taxes and has that funding responsibility into a sales tax cut with exemptions for such things as food, clothing, residential utilities, dr skills, and prescription drugs. what is wrong with 1275. i ask you first, mr. corbett. >> jim, you are right. the issue of property tax reform has been going on since the eisenhower administration. it is one that appears to give on fairness and to some individuals and benefits other individuals. it is one that has to be addressed. referring to the bill you are speaking about. we have taken a look at that bill and we have concerns that the amount of revenue that would be raised by that bill is insufficient to meet the needs of the school districts as they exist right now today. to meet the needs of the counties as it exists right now today. we have talked with many different people during the course of this campaign in preparation for governing. i believe that we can take a look again at to see what revenues we would have to allow that kind of system to come into place. but it is of very difficult one with the exemptions to include. then it would also become, what is the size of the sales tax? i agree on the idea of the sales tax. it appears to be fair, because it reaches more people, but we need to have, if it will continue at the levels we are right now and the schools will continue at the levels we are right now. the problem is we have a spending problem. we have a spending problem in the school systems, we are spending a lot of money. and the counties, we are spending a lot of money. we have to get the spending under control first. >> mr. onorato? >> this is an interesting point. i have been dealing with this for seven years. the only thing it does not tell you is the largest property tax increase came from my republican predecessor who chairs tom's campaign. i said i would bring sanity back to property taxes. assessments, because of one of the oldest counties in the state. i was going to make it clear to seniors that we would not allow property taxes to get out of control. we have not seen it increase in seven years. the only one three we take pride in that. we delivered on our campaign promise. you talk about funding of schools. and our first debate, when my party criticized me for saying i would find education. in the second debate, now he says he agrees to be on early childhood. also, in the first debate, he talked about closing at $3 billion whole by putting a tax on employee. i am not sure why he is changing. for schools, if you want to get serious about property tax reform, that house bill needs a serious consideration. if he will remove property taxes for funding of schools, you need to have a replacement of revenue. i would ask that we take that to the voters for a referendum. if the voters approve it, it would make sense. i have been dealing with property reform for seven years and we delivered and county property taxes being lowest of anybody over that seven year period. >> but you are saying he will investigate a limiting property tax? >> absolutely. only if it is a real proposal. if you have replacement revenue for schools and you do it to referendum. in the short term, if that does that happen, you have to fix the assessment system and make sure schools are proper funding. if my upon it does not fund, he is pushing it down to school districts and they will raise your property taxes. i will not do that. >> mr. corbett, i saw you shaking your head. >> we will take a look at this. i think it is important we find a source that will pay for this. we need to give that a legitimate consideration. you need to make sure that it is revenue neutral in that respect. so i agree with that. my opponent says that might ads are incorrect. he made a promise that he would cut property taxes by 10%. he has not cured i also know that in allegheny is still one of the highest in the state, in the region. >> staying on the topic of education, at the heart of the dollars and cents conversation is the theme of our children. tonight, nearly half a million pennsylvania children cannot make the grade level in math. they are assigned to us by there's a code to attend a failing schools. you support school choice. i want to nail down what you're talking about for those kids in those failing schools. does that include allowing parents to spend it state dollars, taken education subsidy over to any school, including religious and private schools? >> i will give you the answer. tom would know that allegheny has high taxes, because he raised them when he was elected. i never did. to answer your question about choice, i made it clear. in addition to early childhood and basic funding formula, i think we should continue to reform and fixed charges. they are a great option. i supported them in my city. i would look at the funding formula so we did not pit one school against another. i want to make sure that we have good public and charter schools. i also support the education improvement tax credit. used to be $75 million or a private company could give private money and get a tax credit that could go to any school, public, private or religious. i also support grant programs for children that are low-income and stopped and academically challenged schools. they are the choices and that i would put in place. i would be committed, no matter what we do, we would have to have good public schools. the majority of my -- our kids go there. >> let me just clarify. charter schools are public schools. they are not private schools. >> i know. >> the investment tax credit you are talking about is where our company can invest. i am talking about allowing taxpayers in failing schools to take the money and go anywhere. >> i thought i answered your question, but i will do it again. in addition to the educational improvement tax credit which goes to private schools, the tax credit could go to parochial schools and they would take this grant and it would be limited to children of low income stuck in an academically cellist school. >> that is still not there subsidy. would you allow them to take their subsidy dollars and take it to another school? >> no. i would do it through a limited grant program. >> the problem is we have a school system across the state that is failing. 30,000 students a year dropped out of the public-school system of pennsylvania. we have to fix it. i have put in my education plan which is on the web. a very detailed plan, starting out with the early childhood initiative, where we want to put money into that. the air and education income tax credit for the business is so that -- the current income tax credit for businesses. a yes withre me4. . we need to let the students and teachers in particular the parents know which schools are failing. we need to put a letter grade on them. if a student is attending a failing school, the parent would be able to take a child of the school and take a% of that, similar to charter schools where it is about 80% that go from the public district to the charter school, you would able to take that same money to whatever school it is. i believe that we need to look of the education system from that perspective of the child, the parent, and the teacher -- not the unions, but the teacher in the classroom. we have a very good teachers out there. we need to empower everybody to work together on that. >> let's proceed. vernon. your question would be to mr. corbett. >> you have been accused about double talk on taxes for sissies. -- versus fees. interstate about people that would prefer to stay unemployed. could you comment on both of those? >> let me answer your second question first. i have been saying this ever since this statement, i know the people of pennsylvania are out there looking for jobs. the first thing we have to do is work much better on our workforce development, work better with schools to help develop their skills to the jobs that are available. there are not a lot of jobs that are available per there are some jobs available, but we need to do that. but we need to develop the work force for the future from our schools and for those who have lost their jobs. a recently was in a career center up in the northwest corner of the state where i whoodld a 65-yera lost his job who is learning the skills needed to run a computer that runs a lathe. we need to encourage that. my statement was to end those. i understand that people are working. we are moving forward. we have got to get the jobs. those jobs, shale -- that is an industry that will grow hundreds of thousands of jobs and direct and indirect. >> do you really believe people want to stay on the dole as opposed to having jobs? >> i was repeating what was told to me. >> that was about how many people? >> i repeated a couple of anecdotes. >> you were accused of double talk on taxes. >> i am the only person here who has signed a pledge not to increase taxes. i also made a promise -- will not increase any fees ever. >> mr. onorato? >> well, again, i take exception. in the public record we have in several times and that he does not support extending unemployment compensation because the jobs are there. the jobs are there and people would not look for them. that is number one. as it relates to taxes, i do not have to sign and no tax pledge, because i have governed for seven years. are reformed government. i downsized the peril. i held the line on property taxes -- by downsized the payroll. he put a tax on the workers. the last debate he said he wouldn't. you cannot change your answer depending on what audience you are talking to. i have a track record. it gets attacked or applauded, depending on who you talk to. what i can tell you is i will defend my track record. i am prepared to reform harrisburg, create an informant for the private sector. that is why several articles have rated as the best commercial real a state market, the best place to live two years in a row, the lowest foreclosure and the state. i can go on and on, even in these tough economic times. i of the experience in working with the private sector in creating jobs and i will do that as governor. >> i am concerned that our timetable is running short so i want to bring of the issue of shale. most voters would not know what marcellus shale is, but it is one of the largest deposits of natural gas in the world and pennsylvania is on top of it. the question is how do we extracted? do we tax it with a severance tax or do we let business and developers do it without a severance tax and they all pay taxes at some later point? basically, it is paying out or pay later. do we as a state ask for developers and energy companies to pay severance tax on the extraction of natural gas now or do we let them go about their development process seized without that severance tax and pay the state later different kinds of taxes? will the severance tax and have it the potential business activity of marcellus shale? mr. onorato, i ask you first. >> we should do what every state is doing. we need a competitive several tax. which replace all of the cuts that were made in the department of environmental protection. right now it took a 28% cut in the last two budgets. we need to make sure they are up and running to watch the water quality and the environment. we need a private in pac fund to make sure that we have money set aside. i would do a grow and greener fund to preserve open space. we could grow this industry in environmentally smart way. the 80,000 jobs they are predicting that will come from the industry, before we get out of the permits, we need to understand that the industry of higher pennsylvanians. our people. this is no time to take an extreme position to make pennsylvania the only state that does not have a severance tax. these are real issues. when you take minerals of the ground, you have environmental issues. why don't we use the severance tax as opposed to having the taxpayers pick up that build? >> i am not quite sure where to start on this one. we are the saudi arabia of natural gas, if we develop that now. we need to develop that now because it will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs from every study i have seen. now, i do not believe is a proper it. these companies are already paying taxes. and the money that they are already spending turns into a world to payments and many other ways. -- to royalty payment and many other ways. you have seen businesses that have gone out of business growing again because of this industry occurred in a permit fees -- the permit fees have enabled some people to hire enough people to make sure that the people are drilling a proper way and to make sure they are not violating the environment. we do need to make sure we protect the environment. and i will never put the profit of any company ahead of protecting the environment. i'm the only one here that has protected the environment. as united states attorney, i've tried cases against municipalities that violated our streams. as attorney general, i have worked with the legislature to increase penalties against people who violate our clean streams and have gone after people who have violated the environment. i believe we would chase away these companies at this point in time. >> first of all, tom is not the only person that protecting the environment. i have a strong record. tell them the rest of the story. you take more money than any elected official in pennsylvania from the gas and oil companies. that is why you're not pushing for the attacks occurred as a republican governor and democratic governor has this tax. this is an extreme position for pennsylvania. you are jeopardized and that taxpayers and the environment. when you talk about experience and going after people, you represent the largest landfill company when they were being charged with violations. that works both ways. i would argue, if you look at where we stand now, your position is a very extreme compared to where other states are. these ceo's know they will pay the tax. they want to. they want to make sure they get a permit. let's grow the industry the right way so that it is safe, we get the jobs, and we did not jeopardize the taxpayers to pick up this bill. >> one rebuttal. 30 seconds. >> when it comes to protecting the environment, my record is clear. and working with the company i worked with, it was to make them comply with the environmental laws. secondly, if we are going to talk about taxes than i think we should talk about the taxes of texas. we're always compared to taxes. you cannot compare apples and oranges. if we are going to talk about a severance tax that other states have, if we want to change our entire tax system to what they have in texas, then that is what we should do. >> let's talk a good government. governor rendell has taken criticism from good government groups and the business community and other folks out there for the number of no bid contracts he has done. let me give you two examples. he gave an outgoing cabinet member of $5,000 a months no bid state consulting contract. last year, he created $95,000 state job for a democratic lawmaker of lost his reelection. what you promised the voters tonight that you will not reward your political donors and cabinet members with no bid contracts or state government jobs? >> yes. i think it is very important that whoever comes into state government understands that in the governor's office, understands they are there to serve the people of pennsylvania. i believe there is a governor code of contact and there is a borrowar. >> are you saying he is breaking the law? >> it was a rule of the governor prosy office. it is not a law. i think it is totally inappropriate for the governor to create a $5,000 per month contract like that or to hire some other individual, this is a legislator, into a job in order that he can gain more of his pension. >> you promised tonight you will not do that. >> mr. onorato? >> i will start by promising that i will not do that. i have had a paper that has been out since the primary that talks about this issue and other reforms. as governor, everything will be competitively bid. construction contracts have to be, but even professional service contracts. no sole sourcing of contracts. i also put a two-year maybe even longer moratorium that anybody leaving my administration cannot lobby or come back to my administration on the outside occurred. >> both of you are practicing catholics. how're your faith affect your government, specifically on abortion? >> i am a product of catholic school and it's a big part of who i am. on that particular issue, as governor, i support pennsylvania's law and would veto any attempt to change that law. >> my faith means a great deal to me. i am a product of perot grew grade school, a public high school, a methodist college and a catholic law school. our faith guides how we make decisions, not just on abortion but on many other issues. the one thing i've learned from my faith is you must do the right thing. and i promise the people of pennsylvania the decisions i make are going to be made in the best interest of pennsylvania and will be the right thing to do. when it comes to abortion, i support the present law. if the legislature were to pass a stricter form of abortion law, i would sign it. >> most people think of this area of health care reform as a federal issue, but it is up to the states to implement the program, but i want to ask you specifically about medicaid, which complies -- comprises 20% of the state of pennsylvania's budget and serves children, the disabled, and the elderly. will you pledge not to cut the medicaid budget in pennsylvania for a four-year term? >> the first thing we need to do is go in and find the waste in medicaid. i believe we can do that. i go back to what i said about jack wagner who indicated there is a 40% error rate, due to an eligibility. we will save a great deal of money there. a 20% guarantee i think is a good number we can reach, but to make a pledge on that without knowing the entire ty, and the money will get from the federal government for those programs, i will make a pledge that i will do my best to keep it at 20%? >> i will do everything i can not to cut medicaid. i will look at other parts of the state budget before look at this department. i want to point out that health care itself will be a challenge for pennsylvania. the better health care bill was implemented in 2014. ipod and i have different views. we have implemented because i have watched health care costs go from $35 million to $65 million in my county. the status quo is killing small businesses. at the end of this year, 45,000 people are being kicked off adult basic. that is a contract for six years with insurance companies. they provide the funding from that period expires. i have called for the insurance company to extend it to three years. tom sided with the insurance companies to extend it for six month. we need to make sure that we did not for 45,000 people off of medical coverage just because the clock is ticking before they get to the medical coverage. >> 15 second answers. is immigration policy exclusively the domain of the federal government? >> yes, it is. we need a comprehensive federal immigration bill. >> what he is doing in hazleton is unconstitutional, what he wants to do to have local immigration reform? >> i believe it should be done, and weekly at the federal level. >> i believe the federal government has a duty to enforce the federal immigration laws. i believe the states have the ability to make sure that the payments they are making are not going to legal immigrants and to protect their states' rights when it comes to that. >> we are at the end of our time for questions and it is time for closing statements appear. mr. corbett, you are first. >> ladies and gentlemen, it has been a pleasure to be here with you. vern, thank you for being here tonight and participating. the next governor of pennsylvania has a number of serious decisions and serious challenges ahead. i do these challenges as opportunities. auburn to use to take pennsylvania back in a direction where it becomes a state that other states want to model themselves after. we are not there right now. but in order to do that, the next governor of pennsylvania is going to have to make tough decisions. i have made tough decisions about my career. my opponent has been little during the course of this campaign might presage a row background -- has belittled it. when i look at governor virginir ridge, all prosecutors who had to make tough decisions. and i promise you, so, too, will i. we have a choice. we have a distinct choice between the two candidates. if you want four more years of increased spending, of texas, four more years of unemployment, -- of taxes, of trying to be all things to all people, if you want four more years of rendell- like policies, then i would select my opponent. if you want somebody will bring change and have the courage to make tough decisions, who will bring job creation to pennsylvania, i would ask that on november the second that you vote for me. thank you. >> again, i thank everybody for pulling together the debate tonight. light upon it wishes he was running against ed rendell. you are running against me. i will run the state differently. i will run it differently from you. i have an experience of downsizing and consolidating government. freezing assessments. as i run for governor, i will bring an outsider's point of view. you are hearing harrisburg rhetoric tonight. i've never been in harrisburg. i have no personal gain in harrisburg. i will go there and make their real reforms like i did in the second largest county. i have worked with the private sector to create jobs. i will do it as governor the same way. we reformed government so we were more business-friendly. i will do that as governor. if we are looking for somebody that is willing to take on, yes, even the legislature, i am willing to do it, because times are tough out there. i know people are hurting out there. tom does not carry are reformed government. tom has not. i did work with the private sector to create jobs in western pennsylvania. tom has not. i appreciate your giving me the opportunity tonight. i respectfully ask for your vote. on november 3, i am going to work to put pennsylvanians back to work. >> i want to extend a personal thank you for spending time and giving our viewers an opportunity to learn more about your views and your visions. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> thanks to our panelists. an now we want to give n opportunity for some final words from the league of women voters. >> we want to thank the candidates for participating in this debate and wpbi for its commitment to the citizens of pennsylvania. active and informed citizens are keystone to a strong democracy. for 90 years, the league has been helping candidates learn about the candidates -- helping voters learn about the candidates. our online voters guide. please vote on tuesday, november 2, and to make democracy work. thank you for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> voters head to the polls in less than two weeks. follow the candidates on c-span that works. archived debates are on line at the c-span video library. upcoming event coverage, campaign ads, and other resources. follow our election coverage right to election day. >> we will have live coverage of the pennsylvania senate candidates on c-span on friday at 7:00 p.m. eastern. a public policy survey shows democratic representative joe sestet leading former republican pat to me -- joe sestak leading pat toomey. on saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, it is live coverage of the senate debate in colorado. both the cook political report and cq politics and rate this race a tossup. the midterm elections are on november 2 in each night we are showing debates from key races. tonight's lineup includes the debate among florida's u.s. senate candidates. incumbent florida governor charlie crist, republican marco rubio and kendrick meek. in an hour, it is wisconsin's candidates for governor. scott walker is the county executive of milwaukee count. y. after that, a look at the effect of latino and african american voters in the election. >> every weekend on c-span-3, experience american history tv. starting saturday, 48 hours telling the american story. here is start speeches by national leaders. visit museums, historical sites and college campuses as top historian to delve into america's past. american history tv, a debate among the candidates for senate in florida. charlie crist is running as an independent. marco rubio and nabih product representative kendrick meek. their debate tonight was at nova southeastern university at fort lauderdale. this is an hour. from the beautiful campus of southeastern the university, a decision 2010 presents the candidates for u.s. senate in florida. >> welcome to the debate for the united states senate. this event is being broadcast by a number of stations across the state. the three candidates vying for this senate seat our governor charlie crist, united states representative, kendrick meek, and the former speaker of the florida house of marco rubio. the candidates will have one minute and 15 seconds to respond to questions. our panel tonight includes william march with the tampa tribune, miriam marcus with the miami herald, and michael williams. we of asked the audience to hold their applause. our time is limited and the inches are endless. we will get started. marco rubio won the toss to go first. we will begin with the issue before voters care most about, jobs. our unemployment rate is two percentage points higher than the national average. nearly one in a floridians cannot get a job. you oppose the federal stimulus. if we had not had that stimulus running, wouldn't have things been worse? >> thank you for having this debate. let's talk about the stimulus package. it was called stimulus for a reason. it has failed to stimulate the economy. over 200,000 floridians have lost their jobs. the unemployment rate is substantially higher than it was before it passed. it has failed to do everything that was supposed to do. on the other hand, it has stimulated the national debt. there were other alternatives to the stimulus. it was not about doing the stimulus or nothing at all. jobs are not created by politicians. presidents do not create jobs. jobs are created by everyday people. what we need our leaders in washington that will create an environment where starting a business is easier, not harder. that has not what we have gotten. over the last 18 months, everything that has happened over there has made it harder for jobs to be created. that is the most important thing. it distinguishes me for my opponent in this race. >> the unemployment rate in the state of florida has soared during your tenure as governor. why should florida voters trust them to -- trusty to get them jobs? >> it is important to understand that this has been a tough four years, the toughest for years in the history of our state as a relief to the economy. it is easy to govern when money is flowing. it was important to take the recovery act money for one simple reason, because i care about the people of our state. i care about you. if marco rubio had been your governor, 20,000 educators tonight would not be employed. another 60,000 of our fellow floridians would not have an income. that is unconscionable to me. that is not compassionate. i think it is important that we understand what else the stimulus dead. it cut $300 billion in tax cuts. that was important for us to remember. by investing in things that were important to people. i talked to members in the housing industry every day. some homes are starting to sell now because first-time home buyers got that $8,000 tax credit. other things that the stimulus did was invest in infrastructure. its infrastructure is invested in, you get more jobs. >> he wrote that it would amount to the largest tax increase in american history. you want those cuts for wealthier americans to expire. you have not proposed any cuts in taxes for a larger corporations. how will that create jobs for floridians? >> thank you so very much. thank you for moderating this debate. i am glad we're having this debate tonight because it is about the future of this country and the future of our state. it is important that we look at the stimulus. we have to look at it as a tool. when we look at tax cuts, i talked about it, marco rubio and charlie crist stand side by side and making sure that these special interest and the super wealthy get their tax cuts. even those to ship jobs overseas. middle-class families under the income of two under $50,000 would have to pay $6,000 a year -- $250,000 would have to pay $6,000 a year. i am for child credits. i am for tax credits that will help people get people on their feet. they are advocating tax cut for those that are privileged in this country. we had a different economic time. we are in a super deficit. they believed in trickle-down economics. it did not work when it was first introduced and it will not work now. >> next question from michael williams. >> turning to the federal deficit, non-partisan economists argue that to avoid long-term federal bankruptcy, either taxes must be raised on all americans or huge untitled reforms must be again beginning with social security. when we hear more and more than anything else is a political ally is simply this. >> basing that stark choice, do you raise taxes or begin to cut benefits? where and how? >> you do what we have done in florida. now is the time to cut taxes. this is where the speaker and i agree. we have to cut taxes to put more of your money into your pocket. we have to do it for small businesses, too. i think it is important to have those tax cuts, about, make sure that we have them going forward, make sure that you have more of your hard-earned dollars in your pocket. >> specifically to the question. raise taxes eventually or cut benefits? given that choice, first and foremost, which is your choice? >> neither one. that is a false choice. " we have to do is be smart and prudent and protect our seniors. my republican opponent talks about raising age of eligibility or privatizing social security. that is not what our seniors deserve. that is a promise that was made to them. i am the only one that said if elected, i will protect and preserve social security as we know it today. it was a promise that was made to you. once they get through this difficult time, we can do what we did in florida. i am a fiscal conservative. i slashed the budget by $7.4 billion. we did it by -- without hurting health care, seniors, or education. >> even leading house democrats acknowledged earlier in the year that we would have to put everything on the table of eventually, including social security. you have not talked much about these tough choices. if it comes down to having to raise taxes or cut social security benefits, which is your choice? how do you do it? how do you answer that question? >> you have been around a long guest. i think it is very important to pay attention to what the governor just said. he said very little. he said but we have been hearing all through the years, the washington d.c., let's cut taxes and everything will work out. when it comes down to these entitlement programs, we have to be able to lead all the waste. look out the health care legislation. it is the second largest deficit reduction legislation that has been passed in the congress in several years. charlie crist wants to repeal it. marco rubio wants to repeal it. we have to make tough decisions. when it comes down to dealing with this issue and how we get there, we get there rolling up our sleeves and making sure we work on the issues that are facing this country. the very tax cuts that they are talking about are talks cuts that are going to take this country into a deeper hole. $700 billion for the super wealthy in this country will bring about the fall of many of these programs. that -- the next senator of florida must be a protector of the people of this state. >> i am not hearing from either one of you what is going to happen to social security when we know that full benefits will not be able to be paid out in 2037. neither view is proposing a specific solution. -- neither of you is proposing a specific solution. >> report after report does indicate what you just said. it is important for people to hear. social security is solvent until lot least 2037 or 2041. yet there are people who want to tinker with it. it does not make sense. it is one of the few programs that actually works. typical of washington d.c., it is what politicians attack. >> it will not work in barely more than a generation. >> it is important that we expand middle-class jobs. both these gentlemen want to give tax cuts to companies that ship jobs overseas. expanding the middle class in florida will help the social security trust fund. i think it is very important. 40% of floridians will go into poverty without social security. if someone wants to change social security, they will have to go through me. >> we have yet heard hard specifics. let me also put a question to you. we will need to look at entitlement reform over the long term. anything less is simply someone wanting to be elected to office. what do you propose? higher taxes or begin to make reforms? what are the tough reforms that you are willing to consider? >> i have to set the record straight and answer the question. the governor has repeated something bad is now an old political track. let scare seniors about social security. if you are over the age of 55, and you are a current beneficiary, i do not believe there should be any changes to social security for you. my mom turns 80 years old two weeks from today. social security is the sole source of income that she has. i would never support any changes to social security that would adversely affect her. what you have not heard to date is a real plan of social security. there are no problems with social security, according to gov. chris. for years now, congress has been raiding the social security trust fund. the is it to pay for all sorts of things. by the year 2037, let me tell you what the year 2037 is. that is the year that my daughter turns my age. the closer we get to that year, the harder it is to solve these problems. the number of workers, younger people like myself, they need to understand that we will have to discuss different options on the table. whether it is looking at indexing for younger workers. not the people that are on the system today. a progressive price index is something like it. again, these are options. amnesty for illegal aliens, he said that the former labor secretary, someone needs to tell him because he has never heard of it. he thinks you're plan makes it worse, not better. >> clubs do a quick question of what would you say -- let's do a quick question of what would you say to this voter? stimulus, we talked about it. there are different scenarios. each one has a different reaction from the taxpayers. we will start with kendrick meek. what you tell small-business woman, an importer, she imports from colombia, and she is trying very hard to hire more workers. unfortunately, she looks at the federal stimulus and what she sees is all the money going to help labor unions hire more workers or keep teachers and police and firefighters, but nothing for her. what do you tell her? >> tax cuts, infrastructure, and money that went to states to be able to balance the budget. we looked at these projects that are ongoing. some small businesses have received a tax cut from the stimulus plan. the stimulus is the past. the future is right now in the united states senate. he did not lift a finger to move the jobs bill for words or the small-business bill for words in the senate. if marco rubio was the united states senator, he would have voted against the stimulus. he would not have a proposal. the real issue is someone who was willing to take on those issues, i am therefore them. that is the reason why i stand up for tax cuts for small businesses. i look forward to doing that when i become the next united states senator. the stimulus was to help start infrastructure projects, green initiatives, give tax cuts to floridians. to make sure that we provide a baseline for the government to be able to carry out the services that only that business -- that they should be able to take advantage of. >> you are next, marco rubio. what would you tell a hotel worker that is cleaning rooms and her husband has been in construction for the last 10 years and he has lost his job. they are counting on the back unemployment extension, part of the stimulus money. all she thinks about is, marco rubio wants to extend tax cuts, but not worry about those who are already unemployed. >> that is not an accurate -- accurate reflection of what my position has been. identifies some area in the budget -- >> where would that be? >> some of the unspent stimulus money. do not double add to the dead. i do not think anyone would argue that you will not be able to find savings after this spending spree. they have grown the national debt by $3 trillion over the last 18 months. it is an atrocious number. you ask a question about choosing between spending reduction and tax cuts. that is a false choice. the obama administration and the current congressional leadership have proposed a budget and if you extend it over 10 years, has massive tax increases and massive spending increases. they will double the national debt by the middle of this decade. over $900 billion a year will be borrow every year just to pay the interest on the debts. half of that interest will go overseas to china and bondholders over -- elsewhere. >> what would you tally dr. houk -- what would you tell a doctor who treats medicare patient and is looking at the stimulus money and says there has been no help for me. congress has passed health-care reform and by medicare payments have not ground in the last x number of years. every year congress decides to postpone the inevitable love to try to contain those costs. -- inevitable below. >> i would tell the doctor that you need to send an independent to the united states senate. this is the problem with washington. this is a problem with the washington d.c., not being able to get things done. they are stuck in gridlock and they cannot get together. if either of these two guys go to washington, they will gets in their corner when they get there. they will fight anything that requires common sense. >> that is a good talking point. what would you -- how would you deal with the issue of medicare payments? that is a recurring issue. >> by working with the other people in the congress for a common-sense solution. that is what is frustrating to people who are watching tonight. all the year from washington is, we have got to do it our way, are you have to take the highway. it happened with obama care. i opposed it. the democrats rammed the thing through. will we have to do is say, look, we do need to do -- we need to do what is right for the people. the president started -- the president started out saying, i am going to work across the aisle. it has not happened. it needs to happen. whether it is the medicare issue with the doctor, the hotel worker, every authority in in this audience has to have someone go up there and say, enough is enough. >> thank you. >> on health care, what your campaign, you have condemned the obama administration reform plan and as a understand it, any plan that requires that all americans have health insurance, even though mitt romney implemented just such a plan in massachusetts. what is your solution for the system that we have now? for most americans, it is grossly expensive and is inundated with the red tape. what would you do? >> william, we are the only candidate that has actually offered a concrete plan. i will take the question into parts. the health care bill has broken every promise that they made. they said that if you were happy with your insurance coverage, you will not turn your coverage. 59% of americans could lose their coverage. we're told that it would make medicare more solvent. we are losing the medicare advantage plan. health care costs are going up all across the board. what i propose is that the health insurance industry is upside-down. the health care consumer, they have no choices. you usually get your insurance from your employee eat -- employer. what i would propose is to change that around. to allow every individual to buy health insurance from any company in america. even if they are in another state. by allowing every individual to buy health insurance for themselves, to have the same tax benefits that their employer has. by allowing small companies and associations to pull together and buy insurance with the same tax benefits. >> you have also said that you oppose the obama plan and would vote to repeal it, prepare it, replace it. -- lee perez, replace it. you said that it has cost too much. your proposal as governor fort solving health care problems to cover explored the plan has provided help to only 6200 people in florida. what contribution do you have to this debate is not bad? >> a lot. i think that obama care was off the charts. it was wrong. did has mandates that are unconstitutional. it is not the way to go. what do we do in florida? we passed a plan that you referred to. when you talk about the fact that only 6200 people have signed up for it, it took health insurance during -- from an average of about $700 a month for the uninsured, for those who have recently lost their jobs, and reduced it to about $150 a month. i met with a lady last month in century village in boca raton. she came up to me and said, thank you for passing cover florida. she told me that she was not able to afford coverage for her son, recently been diagnosed with cancer. she was able to get coverage because of cover florida. he got his treatment and he is now in remission. that may be only one family, but that one family and that one person me a lot to me. this is the kind of compassion that you deserve in a public servant. i have been your governor. you know you can trust what i tell you. it is important that we have people in public office that understand. >> let's turn the question around a little bit. boeing corporation just announced a very large health care premium rates for its 90,000 employees. a lot of americans are seeing increases. according to projections from the cbo, those increases will probably get worse. at the same time, the plan did cut the medicare advantage plan, which a lot of floridians depend on. most floridians say they are opposed to it. how do you defend it? >> the real issue is that floridians are uninsured, 3500 a week lose their insurance. it is fair in born to note that something needed to be done about health care. the last election cycle was all about health care. the plan was followed through on. the governor calls it obama care. the real issue that it is health care. when it comes down to it, we have people you have rights that they did not have before the passage of that plan. polls can act like everything was fine because the reason why it was an issue in the last election was because businesses were going out of businesses, small and large. something needed to be done. when it comes down to medicare, it has done more to help medicare. insurance companies are playing chicken with florida and and americans. what was this case last year? and the year before that? the bottom line is, the next united states senator has to be someone who will stand up against the special interest companies and not cave in to them. i am shocked to hear the go from the governor talking about obama care. i wonder if he would say that to the president. you have to have a leader who will stand that regardless of what people say when it comes down to standing up for floridians. it is really mind-boggling to me how you can stand there and start throwing out accusations. >> governor, i will give you a very quick rebuttal. >> when we are on the beach, we were protecting florida. >> you are for offshore oil drilling. >> no, i am not. >> you were with sarah palin a couple of years ago. >> i was there to support my friend john mccain. >> i look in to rescue both here. we will take a very quick break before we astound -- before we start another round of questions. >> welcome back to the debate for the united states senate. this event is being seen by voters across the state. we will get right back to the questions. that is something that your opponents have accused you of doing. it used -- when becoming an independent, you change some of your positions. the beasts and birds on or in a fight and that would not take a side. -- bat would not take a side. who are you now? >> i am the same guy i have always bend. i'm charlie crist and i am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. i believe that we have to spend our money wisely. we need to make sure that your taxes are low. we need to make sure that small businesses have the opportunity to to provide more jobs. i also believe in the lid and let live. i am running against marco rubio, when it comes to issues related to women, he believes that a woman's right to she is ought to be taken away by overturning roe versus wade. i do not think that is right for florida or right for women. i am also the guy that believes in protecting our senior citizens. the only things that are on the table as it relates to social security are making sure that others people's hands stay out of it. we have a duty to preserve it for the american people. i am not that believes in common sense. i am running against an extreme right wing candidate who believes that taking away women's rights, punishing seniors, punishing teachers. >> your voting record is almost identical to nancy pelosi. your positions could have been written -- or platform could have been written by the white house. almost two-thirds of the american population thinks we're on the wrong track. why should they elect someone who is so closely associated with the administration's policies? >> i think it is very important that people have health care. i think it is important that we stand up to wall street. the regulators on both sides of me. that is what got us in this mess and the first place. i believe in housing reform. i look forward to standing with things that work. when it comes down to fighting for floridians, i am on their side. i think is important to know that i am standing between two individuals who have been in a room together dealing with the state budget. they know they have had conversations. when minimal wage was up here in florida, i am the only one who stood for minimum-wage rate when it came to health care, i am the only person who fought for health care. when it came down to fighting for our environment, the green jobs initiative, i am the only one. i am the only candidates who will stand up on behalf of floridians and not the special interest. >> you are running on what many commentators have described as one of the more anti latino platforms around. use of -- you support the arizona immigration law. you oppose a dream act. you oppose the pathway to citizenship. it has made you a darling of the tea party and got you enormous support. how can florida voters feel comfortable that you are not beholden to interest in the tea party? >> i am the only candidate that has a platform on his website that outline specific ideas. i reject the characterization that might platform is against americans of hispanic descent. there is running in america that is more pro legal immigration than i am. my parents were immigrants. i've grown up around immigration my entire life. it is an important part of our heritage. i do not think that america can be the only country in the world that does not enforce the immigration laws. the laws need to be followed. we need to have a system that works. we resort to characterization's of people political positions. the things i believe and are pretty simple to understand brent i believe the economy does not grow because the politicians. it grows because of people who start businesses and expand existing businesses. i believe that the world will be a better and safer place when america is the country -- strongest country in the world. >> thank you. michael williams? >> jenna men, issues of character and integrity consistently come up among floridians. many say that all politicians are the same. beginning with its view, you tried to land federal money from a developer dennis stackhouse now facing charges on unrelated charges. your mother was being paid a sizable fee by mr. stackhouse. why is that? why should anybody consider that any more than typical business as usual in washington? >> the bottom line is that my track record does not speak to anything that is unethical. it is important to know that i've been a state trooper in this state. i voted for every ethics bill. i live in the congress as it relates to corruption. i represent a poverty district. that is one of the reasons i am running for the senate. to make sure that we have leadership that will put people back to work. when it comes down to the situation dealing with mr. stackhouse, the state attorney is doing what she has to do. i support her in that effort. i am working elected official. someone that is going to dive into problems and deal with them. it is very important to also know that this state needs strong leadership that has integrity. that is the reason why i took the time to go throughout this great state of bars, getting signatures, looking floridians in the eye and asking them to sign a petition to place my name on the ballots. that is the reason i won the primary. i am connected to the everyday florida yen. i'm a public servant and not a politician. >> should you have known more note -- should have -- should you have known more about those ties? >> it is very important to know that if i had to do it all over again, i would have paid closer attention. there is no improprieties there. >> you have had to pay back some $16,000 in personal expenses run up on a florida republican party issued credit card. you had a home in tallahassee near foreclosure. huge champion's yourself of as a watchdog. -- eugene been yourself as a watchdog. -- you at champion yourself as a watchdog. >> anything that is personal, i paid out of my own pocket. if i had to do those things again, i would handle them differently. i have never had personal expenses paid for by the republican party. these are important issues that we should discuss. did they cannot be the only issue in this campaign. we are literally have fight to the debate and we're less than two weeks away from the election and that question after question, we've not heard a plan. at least congress and meat has a voting record. -- congressman meek as a voting record. this election cannot be like the other ones. the stakes are too high. we are deciding what kind of country our children are going to be -- are going to inherit. we are not born to fix that by sending typical politicians to washington. we already have too many people like that in washington. >> you pushed over the strong objections of republican party leaders for the chairman of the party. he now faces charges of the misuse of donations. you stood by him to the very end. why did you do so? what does it say about your judgment and your ability to make decisions? >> you did the very best you can when you are picking people. that applies in every instance and in every appointment i've made. when you do the best that you can, sometimes you are disappointed. it happened to governor jenna bush. he appointed to be -- a guide to be the head of the department of corrections and ended at been arrested after he was indicted and is now in prison. it happens. i do want to talk about what has happened as it relates to my republican opponent. let me related to you. when the speaker was speaker of the courthouse, he had a home here in miami. it was for sale. before that sale took place, he was on the other side of the personal injury protection issue. once he sold the home, for it $380,000 cash, the speaker is fish -- opinion on the issue change. miraculously, that bill went through. >> let me set the record straight. let me set the record straight. >> it is happening to -- because you deserve to know where we stand on the issues. >> with the governors that is categorically false. -- what the governor said he is categorically false. lengthse was an arm's transaction. we reduced the price of the home. it did have been for sale for months. my position did not change. the legislation failed to pass in the florida house and it did not pass for a month later. let's talk about why this is happening. the governor is running on this idea that he is a centrist. he wants to change the tone of washington. he just launched a vicious personal attack against me. why is this happening? this is a personal attack. >> is not a personal at >> you talk about newspapers, governor. the last call he made before he switched parties, it was to a pollster. >> let's move on. i will have to take control here. >> a practice on the filibuster over there. [laughter] serious business on the war on terror. we talk about the generational stakes. let's look at the war on terror. when do we know? the public support is starting to wane. we have been in this for nine years. how do we know what we need be -- what we have done what we need to do in afghanistan? >> the goal in afghanistan is to have a stable afghan government and a strong civil society. the reason why that is important is not just because of afghanistan. afghanistan is a neighbor with pakistan. if afghanistan were to fall or evolve into chaos, it would be a base of operations to destabilize and overthrow the government in pakistan. a radical islamic regime were to take control, you would have been in possession of a nuclear weapon. general petraeus and the president have it right. the role is to provide security and safety. the afghan people can begin to govern themselves. that is the: afghanistan. the stakes are high. it is important for our leaders to explain that to people. i do not support a -- an arbitrary withdrawal from the region. it is important that we be successful in that region. when you announce to the enemy that you'll be leaving on a date, you open yourself up to failure. >> all right. same question. >> we agreed pretty much on this point. the most important thing that the government can do is to make sure we are safe and secure. the founding fathers understood it. they put it in the first line of the constitution. the war on terrorism must continue until we are safe and secure. recently, we are reports of a possibility of terrorist attacks in europe. we suffered severely as a nation when this occurred in new york city and in pennsylvania and the pentagon. what the president is trying to do in afghanistan is right. one of the things that encourages the the most about that policy presently is that general petraeus is the man that is leading our troops on the ground in afghanistan. it would be laudable and it would be good if we would be able to withdraw those troops next summer, which is the goal that the administration has expressed. however, i would be cautionary there. the only way that can occur if -- is it general petraeus has the facts and circumstances at that time that support that withdrawal. otherwise, if we have to stay and make sure that america continues to be secure, it is the first and foremost thing we need to do as a nation. >> let's try to see if we can get your answers short. >> thank you so very much. as you can see, both of my opponents agree with afghanistan and pakistan. i am the only candidate that has been to afghanistan and pakistan and iraq. i talked to men and women in harm's way. they been deployed over the last 10 years. it is not how long we will stay in, it is how long our coalition partners will stay with us. it is very important that we continue to work with secretary of state clinton. we cannot do it alone, like we tried to do in iraq. this is not just about a maraca. it is about the world. -- this is not just about america. i want to say to all the military families right now. i do understand what you are going through. a lot of folks do not like to talk about the fact that we have mothers and families -- mothers and fathers that have missed the weddings and funerals because they are serving our country. i understand those issues. i think it is important that we have a policy that is sound, but looking -- that is very important that we look at this debate. >> i will ask you to keep your questions to 30 seconds. >> on immigration, you have advocated a path to citizenship for an immigrant who are here illegally. what me ask you to the imagine that instead of this audience, you were speaking to a group of people you have waited years to enter this country legally. how do you defend that? >> would i am more concerned about is what is best for florida and america. 11-14 million people who are here are not legal citizens as of yet. we need to secure our borders. it must be done. we need to have a path to citizenship that is provided to these people who are here. it is what president bush wanted to do. it is what senator mccain and kennedy wanted to do. it was the right approach. >> we have to move on. >> key u.s. been in congress for a years. for 8been in congress years. nobody thinks our border is secure. how long will it take? why has it not happen? >> when i get to the senate, it will happen. every time they approach protected our borders, making sure that there is a pathway to status in this country and going after those employers that keep the u.s. worker home and making sure that it is comprehensive and fair to our law enforcement officers. marco rubio would like to see -- we have wanted to protect our borders for the last 15 years. >> you have already spoken a bit on immigration. you are opposed to the dream act. let me ask that you pretend you have an imaginary audience. tell them why they should not be citizens. >> children that were brought here by their parents, brought here when they were young children, they have done well in school and want to continue their education, i am in favor of accommodating them. as part of a modernization of what we are dealing with our immigration system. the dream act goes well beyond that. it could apply to all boards of 2 million people. >> we need to proceed immediately to the closing statements. >> thank you very much to leadership florida. i got into this race a few months ago against some pretty significant odds. a lot has happened over the last 18 months. this election is about the future of our country. it is about what kind of nation we believe our children. the choice before us is very clear. we will either be our first americans ever to leave our children worse off than ourselves. or we will our children to be the most prosperous americans ever lead. that choice is up to us. it is what this election is all about. the road that washington has caused bond is the wrong direction. it is a road that will rob us of our exceptional was them. if we are willing to send people to washington d.c. to stand up for that and offer an alternative, to confront and solve the challenges of our time, we will be able to leave our children with add better country. >> i want to think leadership florida for this evening as well as nova southeastern univ.. i am running for the senate as an independent for you. i am running as an independent because washington is broken. it is enamored with the gridlock. they cannot get anything done. it is very frustrating to me. i sure governor, we've been able to get things done. that is very important. what we need to do is realize that there is an extreme right candidate in this race. he is proud of it. he says he is a tea party guy and he wears a as a badge of honor. i think that women should have the opportunity to make their own decisions about their lives as it relates to roe versus wade. senior citizens deserve to have the united states senator that will defend them and protect social security. i will do that for you. we have to defend our teachers. i am humbled asking for your vote. >> we need to move on. >> thank you so very much. i am glad we had this debate tonight. earlier today, i was with president bill clinton in st. petersburg. i will be with him in orlando tomorrow. i am glad the 42nd president stands with me. in this debate, there is a clear choice. i am the only pro-choice candidate in this race. i am the only candidate that stands up for working men and working women. i am the only candidate that would have against tallahassee for smaller class sizes. i am the only candidate that will stand up to oil companies that want to drill off the coast of florida. there may be issues that we may disagree with, there is one thing that will not be mistaken nine. not being able to have a clear vision for florida and not standing up for you. i want to be your next united states senator. let the world know that we stand with those who stand with us. when you vote, we all win. >> thank you. my thanks to everyone that has participated in this debate tonight. [applause] please vote on november 2. thank you for watching tonight. have a good night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> local content of vehicles are traveling the country as we look at some of the most closely contested house races leading up to these elections. >> i think the second district race in louisiana is worth watching. there are only about four or five congressional districts in the country in which a republican might lose his or her seat to a democrat. this was the only district in the state that was held by a democrat. it is easily the most democratic district. it is the only district in the state with an african-american majority. he is not your typical republican. >> the committees here are faced with the everyday issues that we have. -- the communities here are faced with the everyday issues. the very same questions of, where can my children play? do my children have good schools? are there needs of the elderly that we have not mad? >> he was an attorney and a former -- very soft-spoken, not your typical republican. he is not as strident as most republicans are. he is talking about the fact that he voted against health- care reform on the final vote against the bill that was represented equal pay for women and in some other bills that are very much important to the democratic constituency. that is going to be issued. >> [unintelligible] [applause] >> he is a state representative from the eastern part of the city. he is a leader and the legislative black caucus. he is a rising star. according -- he has got some baggage as well. >> our children are struggling. richmond funneled taxpayer money to a shady charity run by his girlfriend. thousands are missing. he had his law license suspended and was fined by ethics violations. he is in it for himself, not for the country. >> it happened from an incident that occurred before hurricane katrina and the spring of 2005. the discipline did not come down from the state supreme court until after he ran against bill jefferson two years ago. it seems a fresh in the minds of some voters. the actual incident is more than five years old. it will be used against him. it is definitely going to be an issue. i do not know how much of a difference that will make. the bigger issue in this race is going to be barack obama. this is a district in which barack obama we played very well. >> the city of new orleans has had its trials. richmond is one of those champions. he passed tax credits to help businesses get back on their feet after katrina. he has always been there making a difference for the community. i hope you will give him your votes. >> the key for both candidates will be turnout. if we get a turnout that is proportionate, regardless of the overall turnout is 30% or 50%, if the turnout disproportionate among black and white voters, richmond should win this race. the numbers just favor him. two-thirds party registration been democrats. you have a minority of whites in the district who are solid liberal democrats. they will probably vote for the democrats. the race sets up well for richmond, but there are some wild cards out there, like turnout. you want to turn out as many white votes as you can and identified the black votes that you can get. that is the game plan for both of these guys. >> the local content vehicles are traveling the country, visiting committees and congressional districts has the look at some of the most closely contested house races leading up to this midterm elections. for more information, visit our website, c-span.org/lcv. >> a debate between

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