Transcripts For CSPAN Tonight From Washington 20100813

>> harry truman, in 1939, when he saw this movie hated it. he really despise it. he was seen as a senator from the prendergast machine in kansas city. i always wonder if he did not think at that point that the movie was looking at him and his relationship with the political machine back home. >> a new book, "the u.s. congress -- a very short introduction." >> every weekend in august, "book tv" returns to festivals we have visited around the country. c. christopher hichens in new york this weekend. the harlem book festival next weekend. later in the month, the annual meeting of historians and librarians at freedom fest. it is a panel of authors and books on c-span to. for the full listing, go to booktv.org. >> the colorado democratic party held a unity rally today following a competitive primary tuesday, in which senator michael bennett defeated the former state house speaker. president obama had campaigned for president bennett, while president clinton had endorsed mr. romanov. this is a little more than a half hour. [applause] >> it is my great pleasure to introduce years someone who cut his teeth during civil white's work.t's please welcome, the chairman of the national democratic party, tim kaine. >> thank you, guys. this is great. thank you very much. it is an honor to be back in colorado. i grew up in kansas and used to come here in denver and the summers. you put out a great convention. every time i come to denver, i get warm feelings. give yourself a round of applause. i am also excited to be here because of so much good work done by colorado democrats over the years, doing good work for people, winning elections. you'll hear from a number of them. i will try to be brief. what you as a party have gotten the national reputation for strong party in national reputation and pulling together in unity. two days -- two days after are challenging election between two wonderful democrats, were good democrats were on both sides, this democratic party and colorado is pulling together. you set example -- an example for democrats all over this country. give yourself another round of applause. you will hear later today from somebody who set a wonderful town the other night in the aftermath of the race, a great champion for a democratic values, give andrew a round of applause. you will hear in a few minutes my great democrat who has set a good it unity town the other night, -- unity tone the other night, an dredrew romanov. there is a lot at stake in these elections. we as democrats have been doing the heavy lifting during a tough time. instead of losing jobs, we are giving jobs. -- gaining jobs. we are not where we want to be dead, but the only way we will get there is if we get -- we are not where we want to be yet, but the only we will get there is if we put good democrats in. with great cat it's like your mayor running for governor -- great candidates like your mayor. joe is right here. we have the house speaker and the majority leader in the senate, and you guys are holding on to the majority, right? absolutely. and with michael bennett, you have a state senator who has expertise in business and education and trying to break down that gridlock that can often get in the way of getting things done. michael is exactly the kind of person we need to have in washington, because we have so much more good work to be done and it will all be done if we continue to have strong democratic majorities. michael bennett will be a great senator for colorado and help president obama. [applause] michael talk a little bit more about his opponent, but you know some things about his opponent ken buck. he would cut unemployment benefits for 75,000. loans.udent ban birth control. take away women's rights in the events of rape and incest. the choice is clear between a candidate who will do a good work and keep us moving forward and somebody will take us back. is everybody on board for electing these great democrats this fall? absolutely. so let me now introduce a great congressman. i told them i would try to keep the introduction down to less than 30 minutes. i do not have to introduce you to him. he is a great congressmen. i love a lot about this guy, but this government in a grocery thing. he should have patented that. it is a smart idea to go out and peopto people. let me bring out your congressman. [applause] >> are you fired up? change began right here in colorado to turn this nation around. that change has to keep going. we have got to keep going forward, just as the president said, we want to put the car in "d" for democrats and not "r" for republican. this is a time in our state's history when we can keep this country moving forward. we do that together because we are better together than we are apart. we have a great state. we have a great nation. democrats across this country have helped reverse the eight years of the george bush era of tax cuts for billionaires', prosecuting wars without paying for them, and letting wall street run amok without any police. it is our turn, our time. we will keep this country moving forward and i know we will do it in a unified manner. the united states of america, this is one of the best states and around, and we will continue to move forward. we have great candidates up and down the ticket. [applause] we have gotten through the first quarter. we have got a lot of work to do, ladies and gentlemen, to bring this thing hall. we will get people up early voting. we will work every single day to keep this state blue. it is my pleasure to introduce our lieutenant governor who has been working so hard on behalf of this state and certainly on behalf of public education -- barbara o'brien. >> thank you. wow, what a crowd. a colorado day. we will take it. we are so blessed in this state to have so many leaders who have stood up for colorado and to know that we have a tough senate fight, but it was between two outstanding leaders who had the best interest of colorado in their hearts. we back hat wehen michael bennett, we will also backed andrew romanov, because he has the talent and the skills. let's hear it for andrew. [applause] it's really hard to create change, and to make progress. there are always all sorts of reasons and not to do anything as we hear very often from the republican side of things, but we are making progress and we have to keep pushing forward. we have got to make sure we win this election and that these great candidates who are putting themselves out there,, when errors and make sure we keep up moving in the path that we have set up. i want to thank you for being here today and everyone for coming together. i cannot wait to see the great campaigns will put together to make sure democrats get elected and keep leadership moving in a good direction for everyone. now it is my pleasure to introduce our great state treasurer, kerry kennedy, who is forward.ing us affo thank you. >> thank you, all, for being here today. thank you for showing your support for the democratic party and the work that we are all doing together that makes colorado's such a wonderful place to live. over the past year, two amazingly talented, caring, and dedicated men have shown us how deeply they care about our state. and how deeply they care about us. coloradous who call, rat home. they have both worked tirelessly for many, many years to improve opportunities for others. they had selfless least try it to open doors for children who are born into port and disenfranchised homes, to give them the power of opportunity that all kids deserve. they are both selfless leaders and great men. and like any hard-fought contest between two exceptional upon its, after the 14th inning, after the third overtime, after the last shoot out, one are emerges the winner. today, we congratulate senator michael bennett. [applause] senator bunning goes for with the full support of the democratic party and -- senator bennett goes forward with the full support of the democratic party and with people all across colorado of every political affiliation because he has earned it. he has shown as he has a vision world-class education system, and partisanship in washington, that he will work to solve our nation's problems, including bringing down the national debt, and that he will bring the openness and transparency and accountability to washington that this nation deserves. we are lucky to have senator michael bennett as our candidate representing the democratic party and fighting for the people of colorado. i want to thank you all for being here. we will work together to win in november. we have a wonderful candidate up and down the ballot. it is my privilege to introduce a great friend and a great colorado leader, senator mark udall. [applause] always a treat to be introduced by kennedy. would you agree? but i want to keep this short and sweet. i know they are encouraged on the floor of the united states senate. i am not the main event here. but i do want to acknowledge our great dnc chair, governor tim kaine, quite a contrast to his counterpart at the republican national compa mittee. i also want to recognize our wonderful state party chair whose leadership at the helm of our party has also been a steady and thoughtful, and i think it that you would agree that that is a contrast with her counterpart at the republican committee in colorado. i will not get into name calling, because today i will introduce a couple of, two young men who have given -- can you hear it? i'll shout. i am going to introduce two young men, talented, who have given a great deal to our party and more importantly to public service for colorado. i cannot help but think about a famous speech that theodore roosevelt delivered 100 years ago. he said it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or how he could have done them better, the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly without shortcoming, but who does strive to do the deed to, who knows greats enthusiasms, who spends himself and a worthy cause, who is the best and knows the triumph of high achievement and knows that if the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who note victory nor defeat." may seem a little antique in our era of 32nd sound bites, but i believe is powerful. -- 30 second sound bites, but i believe it is powerful. people like michael bennett and andrew romanov are willing to get into the arena. most important, so many of you who will never run for office are also willing to give of your time and energy and get in the arena. and as rough and tumble as politics can be, and there is evidence to fuel our psittacism, i believe there is honor in it politics -- there is evidence to fuel our cynicism, but i believe there is honor in politics. i would like to think that teddy roosevelt would still be in the area and quite possibly as a democrat this time around. he would also be championing rubles, because of our water and wildlife. i am pretty sure that he would be appalled that there are voices in the party of lincoln who are talking about repealing the 14th amendment. [boos ] but let me stop channeling teddy roosevelt and let me introduce two men who have been in your rihanna for the last year. they have waged a spirited campaigns -- they have been in the army now for the last year. -=- they have been in the arena for the last year. they fight for our values and issues as western democrats. so please join me in welcoming speaker andrew romanov and senator michael bennett. [applause] >> thank you. i accept your nomination. wrong speech. thank you for are a terrific show of support. a word in support of the most junior-the senior senator in the united states senate, the hon. mark udall. [applause] andrew romanov, i am not the nominee for the senate. i came to support the man who is. the hon. michael bennett. -- the honorable michael bennett. [applause] >> i want to say a few words in thanks to the thousands of people this supported our campaign, the folks who volunteered and voted for us, thank you from the bottom of my heart for the support you showed. proud of our team and proud to see so many folks standing with us together in this united democratic party today, but not just for my sake and not even for the sake of the democratic party, i am asking you today to throw your support fully and unequivocally behind michael bennett for the united states senate. [applause] i say this not for the sake of the democratic party, because the truth is, the party is a vehicle, all means to an end. the end that we share is a better quality of life, a cleaner and healthier environment, more affordable healthcare, stronger schools, more jobs, those goals which we share would be better advanced by michael bennett then any other candidate in this race. is an easy call. -- it is an easy call. [applause] this is a time of it so much pain for so many people across this state. when so many americans who might michael and i have met have lost so much. we have met families who lost their jobs and their homes and their savings. they lost their pensions -- not their voices, but lost, almost lost their faith. we need to restore that. that effort begins today. the campaign for colorado and the general election and for america begins today. we should be dead effort together. i am proud to stand with senator bennett and senator udall, and with so many other talented candidates with leaders like kerry kennedy and sam barnegarn. i hope you will send them into office in november. to me, this campaign is bigger than a single candidate. it is bigger than a single party. it is a cause for the betterment of america itself. it was, after all, some 3/4 of a century ago that franklin roosevelt looked out across the country and saw 1/3 of america ill-housed and ill-nourished. now we are in the midst of another deep recession. we need men and women of goodwill across the state and across this country to join us in a common cause, to make life on earth for every human a better and safer and healthier place to live. i know that is what drove michael bennett into public service. i know the life that he and susan hope for their children is the life we all hope for all of our children, the chance to fulfil their potential, to enjoy a solid education and a steady source of health care and a safe place to live. we can do that in the richest nation on the face of the earth in this century, if and only if you will join forces together. every ounce of energy, every bit of talent and treasurer and time you put into our campaign, i am asking you today to dedicate to the campaign of senator bennett and to all the other talented candidates with whom we share this stage today. thank you. i like to introduce senator michael bennett. [applause] >> thank you, everybody. thank you, thank you, all for being here today. all round of applause for all of the collective, talented people that are here. please join me in saying thank you to them -- to all of the elected, talented people that are here. thank you, colorado. deep andlegacy runs will only continue on in the years to come. he is a man who has spent his entire career working for the people of this state. colorado is a much better place for having andrew as their leader. [applause] andrew inspires thousands of coloradans across the state to volunteer, to go door to door, and that is a tribute to him and the man that he is. to those that volunteered for andrew, i hope to burn your support in this race -- to earn your suppor it in this race. what i said on tuesday that there is a far more that unites us than divides us, i meant it. we are both committed to working for colorado's families, for providing hope for those suffering in this savage economy and for economic solutions through colorado's leadership in the the new energy economy. a round of applause for the sign. [laughter] [applause] andrew and i believe that our kids are our future and that our public schools and our teachers need our support now more than ever. if we are able to remain globally competitive, we must ensure our children have what they need to excel and that means providing a good education everywhere so that the zip code kids are born into does not determine their fate. [applause] a major fight that endured championed and we both share is the deep distrust of the current way of our campaigns are financed. i applaud andrew. i applaud and you're for his conviction to this issue. i hope that someday that we find another solution, whether it is the fair elections and out act, which we both support, or some other option that cleans up the potential for undue influence in our democracy. another issue we feel strongly about is a passing the disclosed act which would help bring accountability to the supreme court decision earlier this year. [applause] that essentially allows unlimited corporate influence over alexian's with no accountability. i agree with andrew that we must change the way that the government is run if we are able to put people back in the driver's seat. -- that essentially allows unlimited corporate influence over the elections with no accountability. andrew devoted his life to this work. this is about the people and not about us. it is about a future that we deserve, one where their leaders are willing to confront difficult challenges with real solutions, not politics. we can do that together starting today. even though we all may occasionally have our disagreements, we know that in order to move this country afford, we need to have a real discussion about the facts. there is quite a conversation to be had. as we face and as our working families face the most savage economy since the great depression, we need to get to work providing every child with the education they deserve, controlling the out of control spending that will settle generations with debt, and doing everything we can to create good paying jobs right here in colorado. [applause] we all will reach out two democrats, republicans, and not affiliated voters and build a coalition of people who care more about getting things done and then playing political games -- than playing political games. my opponent in the general election has made clear his views of where he wants to lead the country. ken buck wants to cut off student loans for the nearly 200,000 students in colorado who currently rely on them. i believe that would hurt our ability to compete in the global economy. he supports tax cuts for the wealthiest. but he wants to slap a nearly 30% tax hike on working families. i believe working families need tax relief. [no audio] [applause] [applause] and ken buck believes that social security is a horrible policy that needs to be privatized. i believe so security is a sacred contract between our country and its seniors and we should do everything in our power to protect it for future generations. his positions are not colorado positions. these positions are about extreme politics, not about what is it doing right for the people of our state. because it was in the last decade that we saw incomes go down, as health care and education costs went up. as a result, we are at risk of being a first generation of coloradans to leave less not more to the next generation. that would be shameful. this campaign needs to be about the issues, a grown-up conversation about what is best for colorado and her people, not negative attacks, name calling and political games. working together, we can keep our eye on the ball, fighting for working families, turning this economy around, providing better education for the next generation and accountability to reduce our national deficit. together, we will be focused on solutions for colorado and not get distracted by the old politics. that is why i am running for the united states senate and that is why -- [applause] asking for why i am your support, your willingness to hear me out, to earn your support, your hard work this fall to ensure that we win this together. thank you, andrew from the bottom of my heart for being here today. let's move forward together to win it this fall. thank you, everybody, for coming out today to show your dignity. we will win in november. thank you. -- thank you, everybody, for coming out today to show your unity. >> we both want to mention one other race that is on the ballot and it is not a done deal. we need to send john and joe garcía into the governor's office. [applause] >> as the parties assessed the outcome of tuesday's primaries, we talked with todd purdum about his "vanity fair" article. "journal continues. host: todd purdum is our next guest and if you watch political television you probably have seen him around. guest: over exposed. but as a monthly magazine writer you have to take opportunities as you find them. host: what we are talking about is the september issue of vanity fair. "washington, we have a problem." we are going to talk about all of that and more in host: how did the day in the life in at the white house, about? guest: we talked for months about this. we thought that if we just looked at a single day in the life of the presidency and soyb iyt to talk about congress, lobbying and the media, you could create a portrait on an average day. so that is what we did. it started because of my own memories of having covered the clinton white house for "the new york times" a couple years ago, and the pace of covering the white house is so much faster, causes so many more problems that i could not imagine it doing it. is worth taking a look at. host: we pulled two quotes, picking up on the comment you just made. modern presidency has become a job of such gargantuan size, speed, and complexity as to be all but unrecognizable to most of the previous chief executives. host: would you elaborate a little bit more? guest: people point out to me that fdr was present on the eve of world war ii, six people with the title president and after the war he had about a dozen and they would meet in a semicircle. now there are more than 100 people in the white house that has some form of the word assistant in their title. because the responsibilities of the executive-branch have grown so enormously, it is very hard for any entity -- you know, the west wing is much smaller than the typical corporate law office. it is action is very intimate place. not that much room to do the work and people are crowded one on top of the other. i think the gulf between the task that any modern president has -- by the way, this article could be equally written about present bush -- the gulf between the task at hand and resources are enormous. host: i want to reference two books that a been around for a while. a longtime reporter from "the los angeles times" wrote a number of years ago. it was a study of the throughout history how president our first flummoxed by the technology gebbie -- going back to telegraphs, newspaper, radio, and then learning how to master it and use it to the own and manage. a similar book written about president lincoln, calling it "mr. lee and's email," about how the telegraph flummoxed lincoln because the generals were communicating absent him and he goes to the telegraph and started using it. guest: reading it and having sort of the first line of intelligence. host: my background. here is the second -- "when could also ask, even if washington is broken, is still partly usable? is there a way to play the washington game on its own of the terms and even play in ferociously because you have to, and yet transcend the game in some fundamental way?" the disruptive technology of the internet and twitter and and listen lobbying. guest: i think it is a very good point. this white house is clearly not operating out of some ivory tower or candlelight age. they are pitching in all of these new media. the white house has a very active blog of their own. they did not wait 24 or 36 hours to have an op ed piece. if something happened that they did not like, they put it on their own white house block. they produce a video, produced news pieces that effectively compete with broadcast news and cable news outlets, versions of event. one of the complaints about journalists at the white house is the white house does not give as much access president of the past have given to news photographers but instead have a very capable and even brilliant staff, and they often release official white house goes to the news media. they are playing very hard, and i think by the light of some reporters, they are playing hard ball on it be questions. that is an interesting commentary on the way that they are, in fact, trying to exploit the new media as well. host: a call from savannah. this is bobby calling on the republican line. you are on the air. caller: good morning, how are you doing? what to talk about the way the government is broken and carry over from some of the military that you just spoke about with the other guests. i have been in the military 31 years and i have been civil service full time of the military for over 30 years and i have been a taxpayer the entire time and one thing that bothered me is for most of my career i had to listen to the public's negative feelings about how the u.s. spends -- for instance, you heard about the $200 hammers, $500 toilet seats that our military spends -- that they spend too much. well, at the same time, i am highly involved in buying parts and supplies for military weapons systems. and we are forced and told to use minority contractors and female contractors and women- owned businesses. there have been numerous times i could about the part that i needed that was the best fit but was diverted into other directions. anyway, i call it government overhead -- like any business, there is overhead. but part of our overhead is we use one service or one business or one aspect of government to fund others. what i think they should do and what i always said they should do -- because i have been a taxpayer of 31 years -- i wish they would let us work more efficiently. i wish they would let us buy the parts of the best place for the best price, and then -- so that people know where money is going. host: i want to wrap his comments into your discussion about the sheer growth and size of responsibility. here is a tweet on the topic as well. does washington control to much? is, yes, inquestion fact this successive administrations, more and more is on a plate of the present but should there be a debate in the country going on about the sheer size of washington? guest: i think that debate has been going on for 30 years when president reagan came into the office saying government is not the solution to the problems, government is the problem. as you obviously know, republican candidates are talking a lot about how we should shrink the size and mission of government and get back to basic constitutional principles, and why is the government and all these things. he raises an interesting point about complex multifaceted priorities. on the one hand, to get the best goods at the cheapest price to the job and the other, to promote social justice through a notion of minority and women contract. that has been a longstanding priorities of republican and democratic administrations to one degree or the other. it is a constant trade off. i think one of the problems when the government is so complex it is measuring the trade up, and in some sense, even being able to see them and understand them. so many things are built into the pie that the public it is not aware of the choices effectively being made because the choices are being cremate. it is the kind of evolution -- a line host: the kind of evolution -- they went through it in demise. guest: there has been a big debate. there was a book "are we rolm" about whether we are fat and sloppy and off our game. i think one thing that happens to any mature society is a certain kind of arterial scotia in -- sclerosis. it is a hardening of arteries. we take for granted what our forefathers fought to take advantage of. this is not a new theme, but many ways, we are spoiled by the freedoms we have. we have low voter turnout, all these kinds of things that are signs. host: you are on the air with todd purdum. gary, independent line. caller: i think the major problem with our government is the corruption. i would like to bring up something here, with the financial reform. senator mark lee and levin put a roll in, known as but volcker role, that would have put a fire wall between investment houses and commercial banking. one of the key sanction -- sections was a ban on proprietary trading, gambling for profit. there was a link and roll. one of the key sections there was giving gambling with dangers and to mislike credit defaults swaps. then we had a senator who -- and of being named after, mr. chris dodd -- the money he takes, as far as the lobbying, working behind the scenes to take any teeth out of that bill. to kill it. the senators and his own party debate maria cantwell -- they set up a watch on him so he could not put a substitute in. one democratic senator, congressman, him and geithner and schumer and the rest of those crooks -- that is the problem. that is why the american people don't trust our government. host: you have given us a lot to work with. i want to use this as a jumping off point for part of the piece that looks at congress and influence of lobbying. the magazine blew out this quote. lobbying industry is the true fourth branch of government. guest: the logging industry spent $3.5 billion -- lobbying industry spent about $3.5 billion. it is really a record. it has been steadily growing over the past 30 or 40 years. just one small index. it amounts to something over a million dollars for every hour that congress was in session. the single largest lobbing into the was the chamber of congress that spend something like $130 million, which is more than the combined payroll of all 535 members of congress. so, the gap between the amount being spent by those doing that influencing and am now available to those being influenced is still out wildly disproportionate. host: michael, republican line, from queens. caller: i watch your show every morning to get ideas about what is going on in the country. washington is broke, corrupt, and the kind of change that barack obama is bringing to this country, we don't need. he wants to bring america to the european system. this is the united states. we have a constitution that protects our government from us. what is next? would he tell us what kind of clothes to wear? it is crazy. michelle obama was saying, i am ashamed of my country. i ashamed of my country for what they are doing to it. we have veterans who are fighting for us, our freedoms, and they are tried to take them away. change? i see the change. a european system. cannot join unless they get rid of our constitution and bankrupt the country and that is what they are trying to do. where in guest: where in queens? i was on a radio interview with someone from the british broadcasting corporation in england and he said he was puzzled with this line of criticism because people in england thought he was to the right of the new prime minister -- european style. it was applicable. i think anytime somebody comes into office and makes a change and president obama wasn't shy about wanting to do it. they subject themselves to a lot of controversial. i think it's pretty clear that in historical terms president obama is in the broad mainstream of american life and he's not really trying to do anything that presidents of both parties to one degree other other has tried to do before. what his problem is he's counting on government to do big things, whether it's financial regulatory reform at a time when the public simply doesn't trust government very much, doesn't trust institutions. and i think that's really his biggest problem. host: started off the program showing peter hart's new survey , "grim voter mood turns grimmer." you know, ratings for congress is somewhat historic lows for as long as some pollsters have been registering them. let me use that to get into your section about the partisan divide in congress. what are your takes, what did you learn, what are your observations of working across party lines in d.c.? guest: well, when thing that's happened steadily is structurally. since the civil rights and vietnam era, the composition of the parties has changed. the republican party used to be divided between midwestern conservatives, northern liberals. democratic is southern conservatives and urban liberals and moderates. those wings have disappeared. there are no moderate republicans and there really aren't conservative democrats. they don't have any structural interest in cooperating. 40, 50 years ago congress was in session up to nine years. their families were here. they socialized with each other and they knew each other. ron who died was very close friends with the house republican leader bob michael of illinois and they used to drive back to illinois -- host: you write that the lively of congressional discourse has gone steadily downhill since 1789. guest: the truth is in, you know, discourse off the floor of congress, members are quite nasty to each other these days. host: we'll come back and talk about the filibuster which you write about. jean, republican line. caller: washington is not listening to the ordinary, everyday jews out there and they are stuck in their own bubble. and they are -- they are out of touch with what's happening in the rest of the country. you guys have been plagued by john mccain on this c-17 issue is one example. he doesn't want any money going into that air force program. he puts this out and you guys keep talking about talking about it. those c-17 are the workhorse of the two wars that we were involved in and they are getting beat up and they have to be replaced and fixed and we just have the first one crash and it's probably from lack of maintenance. and you're putting my son, his -- is on the c-17 crew in jeopardy if you don't maintain them. and this president, he wants to be bipartisan, and he hasn't been bipartisan from day one. that's what's wrong with washington. host: thanks very much. guest: well, i was puzzled about the whole announcement involving the c-17 because these are the workhorses of the military in terms of transport. i wonder do they have enough, what will they do? i guess secretary gates will cut someplace and presumably that was one that he judged as expendable. i do think it's wrong to say that president obama hasn't tried to be bipartisan. i think from the very beginning he did try to be. he certainly thought there would be more bipartisanship upon his taking office. republicans say when the bill got passed, their ideas weren't listened to. but i think at important levels president obama has personally tried to reach out. he feels that -- just reporting his perspective, he feels that he's been snubbed. this is objective fact. the republicans have not given support to any degree for the most important priorities. host: let's show this to our audience who didn't have a chance to watch and get your reaction. >> talked about washington being broken. he talked about the president's effort to transcend politics in washington. and reporting is subjecting that the president made a concerted effort to reach out to republicans early on. i got to tell you, this administration hasn't sought to transcend the politics of washington, d.c. this has been the my way or the highway administration from the stimulus bill forward, democrats on capitol hill and in this administration have slammed the door on republican ideas, have slammed the door on bipartisan proposals, and, you know -- and, again, i just saw on your program again this morning, the president saying even though we handed the president a book of republican solutions in february at our retreat and he acknowledged that we offered policy alternatives to stimulus, to budget, to energy, to health care, the president is back to that old saw that republicans have no ideas. i think that's the reason that his approval rating is plummeting. host: what was your reaction? guest: i thought that congressman pence is very smart and good legislator. he was really saying the only thing wrong with washington is president obama who is doing everything we don't like. but the truth is the obama administration made a lot of changes and compromises in its most important proposals including removing the public option from health care, in cap and trade. it's -- i mean, in the energy legislation, it's backed away from cap and trade. so he has done things to try to get republican votes. he just hasn't been very successful in getting them. host: next call is from corbin, kentucky. this is robert from the ind line. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. my question is, is it possible that government -- washington isn't broke -- is not broken and that what we're seeing is just a met more if i cisfrom -- metamorphisis -- and a lot of accomplishments has occurred and that the interchange between those who don't want to move forward in that new role, which will obviously take sometime, and those who maybe are pushing forward with the free trade agreement and other aspects of that? thank you. guest: well, i think robert raised an interesting point. for the past two i think we have been in transition from an old style of industrial economy and that is a stressful time. given the problems with our educational susan, there is a real challenge to make sure that our work force is up and ready for the jobs that will be there. and part of what you see in washington is that debate played out and those kinds of fights that have been around the world come to washington every day so i thinking makes a fair point host: the next call is from delores. good morning. caller: we need our defense build up. we need our borders protected. thethey're also breaking up middle class in america and it is making us very nervous. general motors now, or government voters, that is not the government's place. -- general motors now, or government motors, that is not the government's place. thank you and have a good day. host: the question that comes out for me is how much of this is just tough for governing in times of an economic crisis than in boone times? guest: id that is a very good point. -- i think that is a very good point. it is more difficult. i know john mccain feels this and other congressmen have made this point the of the day is that republicans got very sloppy about controlling spending. yes, they cut taxes, but the under president bush. i think both parties have been years bonds " with current finances. host: thomas, go ahead. caller: all these people accusing obama of being a dictatorial tyrant, where were they during the bush years when he declared that he had the right to ignore those he did not agree with, and in fact, he did. he was struck down three times by the supreme court over the way he was treating the detainees in guantanamo. why do we hear all of these tea baggers andve decker' others, about this? guest: one of the realities in politics is that we have such a few -- we have such a short memory. there is not a kind of consistency and institutional memory that would help us sort through some of these criticisms in a more useful way. host: next call is from jim. what good morning, jim. caller: [unintelligible] c-span won't even address that issue. host: to get his point of view, he is worried about neocons influence on policy and general patraeus's upcoming speech. guest: i do not think general patraeus is going to be the kind of person who will be unduly sway by either party. -- unduly swayed by either party. i think both parties agree that if anyone has to be doing this job, general patraeus is the man to do it. host: it is interesting this week because of robert gibson's comments about the left -- robert gibson's comments about the left. he talked a little bit about this from the podium. >> do you regret any of what you said to the hilt? >> i will say i think there are many times when i read the transcripts even of answers i give in here that i could have said things slightly differently. i will say, you know, i watch a lot of cable tv and you do not have to watch a lot of it to get frustrated by some of what is said. i think that is what that answer host: there is a lot to pick apart there. let's start with this daily press briefing and what it is about. guest: i have to say that 15 years ago i used to go there and say, i'm not going to ask a question and mike mcguire woods is something that struck me as not particularly right and then you end up in a 45 minute conversation. it has kind of evolved into a debate in society. it is not just that they need to have the sound and the pictures in directing with them. i think robert in many ways has a very hard job and i'm sure he gets frustrated by it. i think most democratic president get liberated by the most liberal base in the same way that most republican partisans get frustrated -- most republican presidents get frustrated by their most conservative base. it must be said, for all of the callers who have said that obama is taking us towards socialism or wherever, president obama has not received unstinting support from the most durable -- and most liberal elements of his party. host: you participate in the daily political talk. guest: just as it were that obama participated in crazy game, too. one thing that has not changed in the past 20 years in washington is that there is much ating going on. we used to say that we have news in the 80 -- in the '80s and '90s, when there really was a lot more updating. now we have discussion about what the president does and what it means and what he will do next. guest: the thing about twitter is that it is always a little bit like a haiku. host: someone earlier treated us , themr. lincoln's e-mails original twitter user. up next is greg. is washington brooke and beyond repair? caller: good morning, how are you? -- is washington broken beyond repair? caller: good morning, how are you. let's get real. he was a part-time professor at a liberal university. did anybody really believe this country was not going to go to hell in a handbasket when we elected this man? thank you. guest: that is an interesting call from greg because by many indices, the president is, in fact, succeeding. he is getting done what he said he would do when he took office. you do not have to be a supporter of obama to recognize that he did many things other than standing on a street corner in handing out pamphlets. as abraham lincoln once said and as president obama used to say, he had enough experience to know that what was happening was not necessarily working. host: north carolina, and davis on the air. good morning. caller: i look around congress and i see a lot of these old guys, right now, these old world war ii guys and they do not have open minds. ,et's say obama is a socialist if socialism would work best for our country, what would be wrong with that? obviously, something is not working. it is not just now. for people to say it started with obama, well, nothing has changed just yet. it takes time to correct where we are right now. host: both of us are in treat the that you as a high-school senior are interested in politics. what inspired you? caller: obama. host: what is next? caller: i will probably join the reserves, go to university, probably north carolina state. host: will you eventually come to washington? caller: of course. host: thank you for calling us and sharing with us your plans. guest: he makes a good point. although, when you talked about world war ii generation politics, even charlie rangel, who is 80 years old, is a veteran of the korean war. that generation, in terms of service in government, has passed from the scene. dingelldn't mr. service? guest: he may have, but just a handful. whereas, 20 years ago, there were many. obama was born during the kennedy administration. part of the stress in the criticism of obama is purely a generational question. host: i want to put another quote here on the health care debate. guest: it is sending to think about in this day and age because a lot of what used to happen in washington have been behind in scenes. -- happened behind the scenes. transparency is the word of the day now. i think a lot of what used to happen in congress could not happen anymore. host: our producer is also reminding us about senator dan and away service in world war ii. guest: good point. host: let's go to theresa, atlanta. caller: good morning. i have some point and i ask that you not cut me off. i do live in the south and i do want to ask about the calculated assault on the white american male worker from this president. we have heard several people saying that contracts are only going to minority workers, will women -- or women. the white male worker is under assault from this president. i want to get your opinion on that. that is how i feel. guest: of the interesting things about that is that almost all of the president's own senior aides are white males. he gets a lot of criticism for that. as kind of connecting a full employment plan for white democratic political operatives. i think that is just your opinion and i do not have any view on it. as one white male, 50 years old, who has been working for 30 years, i do not feel under assault. but that is as one person. host: next caller from maryland. caller: two people have called in and said some ridiculous things. the lady that just called from the south, obviously, she is in immediate. she does blamed -- she is an idiot. she is blamed on obama issues for white men. you cannot get anything done. another caller said that he was a pamphlet backhander and what did you expect? president bush was a draft dodger and a drunk and he became president. what we need to do is fire everybody in the senate, everybody in the house, get people in there that have no tenure were you cannot get them out, so they can work and do things. we can get more things done with college graduates taking their place. we can move things along. the problem is we cannot get anything done because people are blaming it on the republicans, blaming it on the democrats. i do not care about the politics of it. i loved lbj because i watch c- span and i saw the movie. i love the way he did things. you're going to support this legislation or you had to pay for it. host: he is referring to on saturday afternoons we hear the lbj and tapes. guest: as our wonderful tapes to listen to. -- those are wonderful tapes to listen to. there is intense anger in the air can -- and on roger during the round is the way to do it. -- and i am not sure throwing them around as a way to do it. hon host: next call from betty. caller: i would like to hear more news, just straight news, what is going on. we have fewer journalists who are really journalists. these people are giving their opinion and they are going to the blogs and saying these things. this country shall not be so racist because other countries do that, too. we talk about other people in other countries, but this country, we are divided between colors. we are all americans. i think obama is doing the best to can. i think he really wants to change washington. i think he really is trying to do the best he can and try to go across the aisle. but republicans are going along with this tea party and they are just going crazy. hong guest: that makes at least one indisputable point, which is that there's a lot more in in journalism that there yesterday. the late senator from new york for many years used to say, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not their own facts. i think these days we find that journalists tend to a substitute their own facts. i think we have to find something that we can all agree on and president obama is trying hard to do that, i think. host: the new issue of vanity fair has lady gaga on the cover. is it broken beyond repapair? >> tomorrow morning, and "washington journal" will focus on president obama relationship with the progressive movement. will be joined by janbe hamsher, terence jeffrey, and thomas rooney. "washington journal" is live on c-span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. in a free -- in a few moments, more investigation into the deep water verizon oil rig explosion. in less than three hours, colorado democrats hold a unity rally after the primary election. after that, the national editor of "vanity fair" on how washington works. >> just before christmas in 1968, i was appointed to succeed alaska's for senior senator. next month will mark the 40th here i have had the honor and privilege to serve in this chamber. >> with over 900 appearances, a look at the life and legacy of former alaska senator ted stevens online. news conferences, committee hearings, and from senate floor -- all three of your computer, any time. it is washington, your weight. >> more now, on what caused the deep water verizon or over explosion in the gulf of mexico -- deepwater horizon oil rig explosion in the gulf of mexico. witnesses -- this is a little more than one hour. >> before we start this morning, it appears that there is some confusion about the designation of interests. interests. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> court reporter, let's go on the record the board will call on this natalie. -- on mrs. natalie. >> will you please rise and raise your right hand. >> a false statement is punished. knowing this, do solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? thank you, and please be seated. >> before we begin asking you questions, the board wants to express our deepest sympathy for the loss of your husband. we would like to let you know that we are fully committed to do all that we can to determine the cause of this casualty, and obtained information that would prevent a similar incident occurred with your permission, is it ok for your husband to be referred to as shame? -- shane? thank you, ma'am. >> for the record, could you please state your full name, and spell your left? spell your left? natalie roshto. >> when did your husband start working at transocean? >> september, 2006, i think. >> what was his position at the time? >> he was a forehand. >> did he hold any other positions prior? >> he started off as an ordinary seamen. he went to our roustabout for redneck. -- a rough back. >> they know when he became? >> about a year and a half prior to that. >> you know what his schedule was for the deep water? >> three weeks. >> did when he was scheduled to come back? >> he would have come home wednesday, the 21st, april 21 aired -- -- april 21. his overtime would have started wednesday. >> did know if he received any awards were to the transocean? >> he received an award in 2008 for spotting a drop docket. they awarded him for stopping a job. >> how often did you speak to him about his job? >> on a daily basis. >> when he was offshore, as well? >> mmhmm. >> did you speak to him how many times a day? >> most, just once a day. >> provided your testimony, i'm not point to ask you any detailed questions, but there were some notes that were presented that we might want to ask additional questions on. it is indicated you had talked to him on the day of the incident. do recall you had talked to him about? >> the matters on the rig. >> was anything specific or unusual? >> the extensive loss of mud, the kickbacks they had had, and the atmosphere that he was working in. >> this phone call took place on the 20th? >> yes. >> that he say anything about the work environment at the time? >> there was a little more pressure than there had been in times before. >> high-pressure? >> yes. >> did he say why? was there something more specific going on? >> i think he felt the pressure because he knew they were behind. >> do you know who might have been applying the pressure? >> he never specifically pointed it down. >> do know if he was having the proper sleep, or was he being worked over? >> he was having adequate sleep, i think. >> during your phone call, was there anything unusual in his home, or anything you could have indicated? >> when we spoke at 10:30 a.m. the morning of the 20th, he had said that coming down hallway, he had been told that they had a kick back that night. specifically, he did not explain what that meant. he did not explain where or when. that is all he said. >> was that the only phone call? >> we spoke at 1:30, when he was actually getting off of it shipped. >> did say anything differently? >> just the amount that they were losing -- that is all he kept stressing. >> had he voiced any concerns in many phone calls you had had previously? >> the previous trip that he was home, we had many conversations about the pressure on the raid, and the mod they were losing. he found out they had lost the well. i think he knew then that he was going back to the problems. he never stated that. i gathered he felt that way. >> i know you are not a drilling expert, but did he ever mentioned anything about it this was different from other wells? >> yes. >> did he say anything in trent -- to say anything to anybody in transocean, or to you? united ticket that he went through a lot of training. did he ever comment on how effective it was? >> he had just attended a leadership safety school in houston texas, the six hour drive home, we spoke about how good he felt about it, and how he was quick to take back what he learned to the rank. the men at the school felt they would take it back to the rate and apply it. he felt it was well orchestrated could >> this was a transocean school? >> yes, sir. >> did he go to any kind of well control training? >> i do believe he went to one when he was first hired. >> in 2006, around 2007? >> yes paris >> do you know with a majority of his training was in a question session, or on- the-drop? >> he did a great deal of on- the-job training. he always talked about the positions they were in. there were men there that were pushing him to do better, to move up. >> he was satisfied with the training he was getting? >> yes. >> did he ever discussed any >> did he ever discussed any safety concerns on board >> he never expressed any concern of safety until as well. >> had he been involved in any type of a near miss? >> he was involved at this time last year. i did not speak to him for four days. >> i did not mean to interrupt you. >> he was actually in the compartment that was taking on water at the time. they all got off safely. >> did he have concerns after that? >> no. never -- nothing anymore than we just talked about life insurance and things like that because he knew his job was dangerous. >> did he ever mention anything to you about a safety stand down? >> he mentioned it. he said at the time, he could not say too much. when he got home, he did not want to talk about it. that was all that was ever said. >> he said the walls were too thin? does that indicate he had concern about saying things on the rig? >> it is said he had not felt like talking about. it was a long day. >> you had mentioned that he would have liked to see better enforcement of existing laws. the ever mention anything to you? >> no. >> is there any additional information you can share that i am not familiar with? we only have access to the testimony you gave congress bird is there anything you like to share with the board that might prevent this from happening again, ma'am? >> i would like to stress the last time he was home, he told me it is like blowing up a red balloon, and pushing up as far as it could go. he deemed the whole a well from howl from day one. he says mother nature does not want to be drilled here. i want to stress the fact that this industry is vital to our country. for our men to be out there drilling and their lives being put under business agendas, that is why i want to stress. i think we have enough safety rules. he was satisfied with his job. he loved his job. he planned on being out there for the rest of his life, but i do not think we need to make any more safety rules. i think the ones their need to be implemented harder for them and work hard to provide as necessary commodities. >> thank you. have no further questions put >> i have no questions come to light. -- i have no questions. >> i have no questions, thank you. >> no questions, thank you, captain. >> no questions. >> no questions. >> jimmy? >> the questions. -- no questions. >> mike williams? >> no questions, capt. >> steven? >> no questions. bp? >> no questions. >> transocean? >> no questions. >> anadarko? >> no questions. haliburton? >> no questions. are there any questions we did not ask, or additional intermission you would like to provide? >> i like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak. is there a long road. we're getting through. i have been watching the progress. i want to say thank you, very much >> yes, ma'am. thank you for being here. you are dismissed. thank you. you are reminded you are still under oath. >> mr. died, i have one follow- up question. -- mr. guy, i have one follow- up question, in mark -- regarding the circulating casing run. the decision was made not to circulate complete bottoms up. what was the reasoning for that? >> we were actually drilling the well. we cat to a gap of 18,000 to leaded 60 feet, and it appeared it was worn out. we circulated bottoms up a couple of times. we got out of the cutting out. we got out of the cutting out. what we routinely do, once we get that out, the ecd is lower, so we add some but wait so that it is equal. when we did that, everything was fine, and then, all of a sudden, we lost complete returns. the biggest risk associated with this cement job was losing circulation. that was the top risk. based on the fact that we have lost circulation, just like that, out of the clear blue, we decided to go ahea and get circulation established. then, because of the actual volumes, we would actually have the bottoms up above the wellhead, once the cement was in place. then, we would be able to circulate that. that was our plan. >> ok. thank you. >> i have a few questions for you. >> you indicated your last control school was 2007. >> 2008, sir pitt >> how many schools did you go to? >> every two years. >> your member how many total you want to? >> i did not remember exactly. i have been certified for a long time. >> yes, sir. >> i do not remember exactly. >> what is your best guess? >> 20, 15. >> ok. >> you have been with bp since 2000. , so you are very familiar with the city management system. >> yes, sir. >> how do you ensure that safety was addressed in the well design and construction operations? >> could you please replete -- repeat that? >> as the team leader, how you assure the safety was properly addressed in the well of design plan and the construction operation? how do you insure safety? >> can i ask a clarifying -- are you talking about the actual design of the well, or at the site, sir? >> in terms of the design and construction operations -- your responsibility as the weld team leader. >> ok, sir. the well-designed is actually done by the engineering group. done by the engineering group. then, it is passed on to the operations group, which is what i am in. we implement the job. the actual safety on the break is run by transocean. we follow their safety management system. they have procedures in place for actually doing the job. the physical part. we got rid of the transocean's system management system. -- we operate under transocean's safety management system. >> my understanding is there is a bridge in documents under transocean and bp. so you're not operating under transocean, is that correct, sir? >> no, we operate under transocean. >> this transocean contract worked for bp, right? >> yes, sir. >> how the winter -- how do you insure that third-party contractors comply to transocean's safety management system? >> the people work out there, they know before they go, and when they get there that they are responsible to operate under the safety management system. >> can you describe what the management system is on the deep-water verizon? >> there are several factors to it. there is the start program. it is similar to stop. different people cobham different things. you have observations -- different people called them different things. you have observations by the crew. we look to see if there are any trends. we have a prompt card. a prompt card is something you can keep in your pocket, when you walk around, getting ready to do a job. it can take the card out, and you have a various was of things to go through to remind you of that may be hazardous, and/or things you would need to have in place. all jobs have a job safety analysis. it is also called a think plan by transocean. these need to be filled out by the individuals who perform the work. if you're not part of the think plan, you need to stop, and take a timeout if you want someone to join the think plan, and go through it again. the major tasks are called task- specific think plans, where there is a much more extensive analysis done, which includes a safety risk assessment. it needs to be signed off by all parties involved. that is the basic, fundamental safety management system on a day-by-day basis. >> ok. so, there are safety conditions that have been identified when operation can be stopped? >> yes, sir. everyone on the rate has the right to stop the job. >> having the right is one thing, but what are the specific conditions where they can exercise that right? >> if they see something they're not comfortable with, where they see an action -- someone is doing something they consider unsafe, they have the right to stop. >> that is a pretty general guideline for a very expensive and complex operation, is it not? >> our guidelines -- transocean 's guidelines, and bp's are very specific. anyone has the right to stop the job. if they do not understand what is going on, they can stop it. >> has anyone ever stop to an operation because they do not understand what is going on that you are aware of? >> yes, sir. we even keep track. we get a morning report that is called a timeout for safety. they will have observations on there for a timeout was called for safety. >> during the drilling of the well, were there any instances where people exercise their right to stop an operation that you are aware of? >> yes, there were. >> what were they? >> they were mainly in lifting type of operations, where somebody might not be in the right place, and they wanted to make sure that he or she was in the right place when something was being listed prior to the list starting. things of that nature. >> particularly, with the drilling operation and the construction and operation? >> i do not recall about the actual well construction operation, sir. >> yes, sir. who is the safety officer? >> there is a safety representative from transocean. >> from transocean? and to get that person work for? >> he works for transocean. >> he works for transocean, and transocean works for bp. >> yes. >> did you have a separate contractor to serve in that capacity, or was it just a transocean person serving as a safety officer? >> we have the transocean person, and every couple of weeks we would send a bp representative out as well. usually, there will -- their role was to see how the operation was going, and concentrate on a specific assessment -- say, a lifting or hand safety, things like that -- when they were there. >> things happen 24-7. as a transocean person, does that set up not represent a conflict of interest in terms of the thoughts regarding the safety officer -- since he works for bp, he would not be able to stop an operation? >> i think that -- he is really not a safety officer. he is not a policeman, so to speak. he gets involved in the operations to make sure that the necessary risks are being identified, and that any safety issues are addressed. the culture of the rate is that everyone wants to be safe. >> the culture is one thing, but enforcement, and insuring that there is an independent safety net aboard the vessel is another thing, right? another thing, right? now, who decided the -- this was a suitable platform for this particular job? >> i do not know how to answer that. i am sorry. >> who vetted and approved the employment of the deep water horizon? >> that was done to the upper drilling management, and the upper-level people. >> you do not know who? >> who signed a contract, sir? >> who went through and did the audit to determine that it was suitable -- and did the audit to determine that it was suitable for the operations? >> i am not aware. >> would be the gulf of mexico maritime authority -- would be his group? >> i amateur if they were the individuals in place in 2000 -- i am not sure if they were the individuals in place in 2010 >> would it be that office that to be the setting and the approval? >> the new rigs that have come into the fleet had been vetted by the great audit, and the marine group. >> it would be the marine authority. >> and the audit. >> yes, sir. i understand in know if anadarko part as a base in that? >> i do not know. -- participate in that? >> i do not know. >> in terms of the bp, september 2009 maritime audit, who is responsible to monitor whether those items were discrepancies were corrected within bp? >> the marine group would send out an individual, and they would go through the process, and report back. >> who determines whether the progress made unresolved -- resolving those discrepancies was efficient for the continuation of operations? >> that was the actual marine group. >> so, the gulf of mexico marine authority -- that would be his group's decision whether the vessel would have been suitable? >> is that correct -- is that correct. >> yes, it would have been the people in his prepared >> -- people. >> there was a discrepancy with bp in september, 2009. i do not have that here, specifically, but there was some problem with the bop. this audit was done in september, 2009, and the deep water horizon was not on the well, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> that particular discrepancy was not corrected by the time zon was onater horia station, and working. why was bp not required to correct the discrepancy? white, and who made that decision? -- why, and who made that decision >> are you referencing the recommended practice for the bonnets? >> i believe he is reckitt -- referencing the major inspection which was required every three to five years. both the september, 2009 b p audit, and the modem spec audit, indicated that the only major inspection we could identify -- the only time that had been done was 2000. i think what is try to ask is why, when you have a chance to go from one location to another, why, when you pull the stackup comedy do not perform a major inspection? >> we did -- i am sorry. transocean inspected the stack thoroughly, every time it was pulled. in fact, it would usually take anywhere from seven to nine days to do the actual inspection of the stack. it was gone through, from top- to-bottom. i am not an expert, but i do know that we a lot of them the time -- allotted them the time to commitments and inspection. >> did it ever dry dock? did it ever go to the beach and have made this done on it there? >> not that i am aware of. there was a operation done in 2009. the vessel was scheduled to go on dry dock in 2011. it was one to be a minimum of 60 days at >> i know you just said that transocean inspected the stack every time they pulled the before they went to another location. is that when you consider a major inspection? >> i cannot answer that, sir pitt >> ok. thank you, sir. -- sir. >> ok, thank you, sir. >> i understand the marine authority is responsible for the qualification of the suitability of the the -- the suitability of the vessel, and the qualification of the marine personnel. is that correct? >> they were the people from bp that were involved with transocean and any marine issue? >> who is in bp, and how they determine the qualification of the crew and third-party contractors, and how is it determined? determined? >> transocean was responsible for supplying qualified people. it was up to transocean to supply qualified people. it was the same with our third- party contractors, which would be haliburton, etc.. whenever we got a new person, from the third-party contractor, which would review the resonates -- the resumes. we will talk to the management of the company, before the people went out. >> ok. so they are responsible, but bp that it, or confirm that they are actually qualified? >> the third party? >> the third party, yes. >> not the transocean personnel. >> we saw what their training matrix was, but it was up to transocean to supply the qualified people. >> yes, sir. yesterday, i think the april 18 halliburton kissing design report -- ken lewis -- casing design report -- can we put that up? >> can you that? >> now, my relationship between the site leader -- he received direction from you as the well team leader. is that correct? >> yes, sir. did you see this report from halliburton that was produced on april 18? if in doubt, on the bottom of this -- if you note, on the bottom of this exhibit, there is a gas flow problem. did you see that? >> i did not see that on the 18th. i saw that after the incident appeared >> would this be something that you would review in terms of your daily interaction? >> this particular report is part of the simulation that is run. it is usually with numerous other attachments. the well site leader and i would discuss the actual cementing procedure itself, which is a completely different attachment. it talks about the composition of the cement, the pump time, the compression strengths, etc. this is just part of the simulation, which we did not discuss. we did not discuss simulations. >> yesterday, during testimony, they did not see this particular information. do you know -- was aware of this piece of the affirmation? >> i am not aware. >> it was never brought up in your discussion with the two men? >> no, sir. >> now, mr. matthews, -- mr. matthews showed you three different -- i believe. one was on april 14. one was on april 15 terret i believe the other one was on april 7. all three documents. yes, sir. now, are other individuals listed on three documents -- are they all bp personnel? in the level one approval, the debt reached the names are there. can you identify any non-dp personnel? -- dp personnel? >> ok. >> captain, would you like them to take them 1-1 -- 1-by-one? >> take a look at the exhibit. >> yes, all of the level one are bp employees. >> from the originator, and the approvers, they're all dp personnel? personnel? >> yes, sir. they are bp. >> how about the other documents? documents? >> yes, sir. these are bp employees. >> yes, captain. these are bp employees. >> while third-party >> while third-party contractors, and partners and anadarko provide input, at the end of the day, it is bp that reviews the change and approves the change? is that correct, this new york stock exchange in front of me? >> yes, sir. -- and reuse the change, is that what i see in front of me? >> yes, sir. now, for the document, dated april 14. on the second page, i see mr. patrick o'brien. what was his position within bp? >> he is the vice-president of drilling completion for the gulf of mexico. yes, sir. i'm looking at all three of these documents, only one of which has his name on it. is it normal for the vice- president of drilling completion to be part of this process, and why is it that his name only appears on one of three that i see in front of me? >> i do not know why mr. o'brien is on this particular document. i was not under the impression that he had to be. >> since his name is on it, and >> since his name is on it, and i do not see any indication that he has approved it, the impression i get is that he was still involved in the construction of this well. is that correct? >> he was aware of the day-to- day operations. i do not believe he had the intimate details of the actual engineering design. >> ok. but, he has knowledge, and general knowledge about the well-designed and the day-to-day operation. is that correct? >> yes, captain. >> now, using these documents, there were two management changes. if i can go back to the document, that mr. matthews got from the bp website, the bp drilling and well operation policy. yes, sir. yes, sir. now, i believe that on page four, the second paragraph, i think you read that before -- i think you read that before. it is about a business unit leader. leader. can you read that again for me, sir? >> the business unit leader is accountable to assure that any deviation from policy and established procedure, and all non-routine operations have gone under a of corporate risk assessment, and permit measures have been taken to manage the risk prior to the performance of the operation. >> yes, sir. if you have two in one day, does that qualified as non-routine? as non-retain at this stage in the project? >> it was not out of the ordinary to have to change the depth of the well. i also consider the tapered strain that was the other moc, because it was really in line with the basis design, i did not consider it non-routine. >> ok. so, based on that, he should not have been notified as the business unit leader? >> i do not know if he was notified or not, but i would not inside -- consider either one of those non-routine. >> it appears that the construction of this well has from my non-expert opinion, problems. for example, you indicated there were three kicks. >> 1 tick. -- 1 kick. >> it appeared to me that during a critical time of operation the decision was made to allow the attendance of the routine training, which is required to be taken every two years, and replaced with a someone who has less experience. less experience. >> estimate that decision? >> we have folks who keep track. he was assigned to d p d q, which was the platform. that rate was shut down for a short period of time. he was available. to go fill in. all the leaders are qualified trade some have less experience than others. he was available to fill in. >> he was available, but he had been there throughout -- for how many weeks? >> he had been there for a week. he replaced him with somebody who is available and allow this more experience to go through a routine training opportunity. did anybody bothered to contact mms to ask for an extension? >> we did not contact them to get an extension. >> was there any risk assessment? did anybody assess that? how was the decision made? >> there was no risk assessment down. we feel that all of the well site leaders are qualified. it was a critical stage. running d.c. meant casing is a part of every well. -- running up cement casing is a part of every well that we drove. i do not believe there was any issue with him going in and taking his required training. >> we part of that decision? -- were you part of that decision? >> i was informed that he did to go to school, but i was not part of the decision as to who was available. >> you had no concern about him >> you had no concern about him taking off to school? >> i had no concern. >> what is the procedure? is there one? >> not that i am aware of. there might be, but i am not aware of it. >> when it shows up in the helicopter, and another one gems on. >> i misunderstood your question. everyone is different. each individual. what happens as that you write relief notes. they used to be handwritten notes. in this day and age, we send e- mails to each other. usually the day or two before. we also talk on the telephone. we have a system in place where there is always a well site leader who has been there. that is the way the schedule is staggered, on purpose, to make sure someone is familiar with the operation. he would have gotten handover notes. he would have had a conversation. he would be working with another while site leader to have been there. >> is there a checklist? a written checklist? part of a standard procedure for the release? the checkoff, sign, and turn into somebody? >> not that i am aware of, no. >> what is the dp policy -- what is the bp policy for the well site leader to maintain communication? he went to the school, said he had no communication with what is going on. is that standard procedure? >> yes, that is standard procedure. he is not on the raid -- rig. he is not in the line of sight. he is going to a critical training that is required by the mms and bp. it is standard for him not to be in contact. >> as the well site leader, senior representative of bp, to not to be in contact for that long period of time after he is off the station? did he make a report to you after he was released saying that, are we good to go? anything like that? >> i talked to him before he left. i said, be careful. have a safe trip. he is going to school and he needs to go to training. >> my understanding is that a couple of the i.p. from -- vips from bp were on the deepwater horizon. what is their relationship? >> can you be more specific? >> ar they call =? different business units? >> mr. bryan is the vice- president of drilling and completion at intervention for the gulf of mexico. mr. sims does not report to him directly, but he does report to mr. bryan. all the people who work in the dnc bp organization openly report to mr. bryant. >> ok. so mr. o'brien was vp for drilling and completion and he is the senior guy. he had knowledge of the well- designed and the daily operation. when he landed on the deep water horizon, he became the senior vp representative, is that correct? >> i would not see it that way, capt. the person who is in charge on the person who is in charge on the rig is the well site leader. >> the well site leader -- he can do what ever without to saying, not without discussion without -- with mr. o'brien. >> he can follow the procedure that we have in place. i am sure that if there was an issue that he wanted to discuss, he could have discussed it with mr. o'brien dread the well site leaders cannot just do anything they want to do. we have a procedure. >> that is fine. in anticipated situations and it is not in the plan, what he asked mr. o'brien for his direction? >> i believe he would call me first. if it was an issue, because there are issues -- there are times when issues need to be pushed up, mr. sims is my boss. if it was by coincidence that mr. o'brien was there, i am sure that he would been more than happy and willing to participate in a conversation. >> is it customary work standard procedure that when the vp for drilling and completion, have to a rig that he has a briefing from the well site leader? before his interaction with transocean personnel? >> can you repeat that? >> is a customary when the ldp of drilling and completion, when he or she arrives on the vessel, that they get a briefing from the well site leader? >> in mr. o'brien's particular case, he sat in a briefing with transocean about safety because he had never been there before. that was the first thing that what happened. then he would sit down and talk to the well site leader. it also depends on the time that he got there. depending on the operation, i know that he would not bother the well site leader at the time if he was in the middle of something. >> was there anything -- was there a briefing? >> i am not aware of any specific briefing. >> i did have one question. you would think that the well site leader would call you if they had any concerns or questions. it is that what you said? did anyone call you on the 20th about the interpretation of the negative test that were being performed? >> i have one follow-up, capt. you did not believe that the well site leader would meet and greet the vice-president when he comes to you -- -- rig? >> i would think so, yes. >> i would think so, too. >> he stated earlier that you did not get an opportunity to see the halliburton reports from april the 18th. have you read that model? have you looked at that model? >> i saw it after the incident. >> if you had a book to that model prior to the incident, -- if you had looked to that model prior to the incident, would it have set up any red flags for you? >> we would have huddled up and discussed it with all the parties involved to see why it was indicating that. as i mentioned before, i did not even know that that particular piece was in there because it was never brought up in any meetings. it was never brought to my attention the whole time i have been involved with the horizon. >> do you know what this report is shared with anyone within transocean? >> i do not know if it is distributed to be -- to anyone on any -- on the rig. the actual cemented reports that would go with this would be shared because it is the actual job. it is not a model. it is the actual job. >> do you know what it is shared with the transocean personnel? cox id -- >> i do not know what the modeling shared with them or not. >> you had a management change because you were not able to reach the anticipated death in this well. i understand -- depth from this well. did you change the death because you found your anticipated target or you're not able to get down to your to anticipated target? >> this will have an objective and a secondary objective. the main objective was a top target, which was the reservoir that was found. there was a secondary exploratory tale. that is what this nomenclature is. when the pressures came in different than what we anticipated and we sat the drilling liner, at that time, the subsurface staff was informed, this is the way forward. to you guys want to stop and at this particular level and continue? or if it is successful, do you want to stop? the target was successful. they chose to stop the well at that point. >> thank you. >> good morning, sir. i have a few questions related to maintenance. i understand that you are not responsible for that directly. i am more concerned about your level of awareness and how they will impact the drilling operations. you indicated that you had seen the dp audit from september of 2009. >> yes. >> one of the items was the fact that there was to engines that were well beyond their scheduled maintenance cycle. do you recall that? >> i do not recall the directly. >> contains -- those engines were indicated they were scheduled for overall in may of 2009 and june of 2009. they still showed up in the audit in september, does that concern you? >> i remember discussing the complete audit with transocean and giving them the audit. they were debriefed by the audit team. it is up to transocean to come back with a plan on how it is going to abide by the audit. >> were you aware of their plan for carrying out the scheduled maintenance cycles? >> i do not recall the exact plans. >> into a dozen aides, the >> into a dozen aides, the deepwater horizon suffered a total blackout. work -- in 2008, the deepwater horizon suffered a total blackout. do you recall what the cause of that incident was? >> i do not remember the exact cause. >> i am sorry, sir, i do not remember. >> thank you. you indicated that you participate and receive the daily reports from the deepwater horizon. is that correct? >> yes. >> you were previously shown reports dated 24 of february parade can you take a look at that for me? >> i am playing catch-up. >> i understand. >> i have a 24th. >> if i could direct your attention to remarks and it talks about rick equipment that is down awaiting the parts. do you see those items? there is a list of eight of those. number four says, it is out of service and parts are on order. >> engine down, at does not give an explanation. >> ok. >> if you could look at the other daily reports from the 13th of march. if you could look at those remarks section in the center of the page. are those same eight items also on that report as well? >> yes, sir. >> the fact that the show up just three weeks later essentially in the same burbidge and language, does that raise any concerns as a well team leader? >> with exception of the engine, which i do not recall, the other items were on there for a long time, mainly waiting on either parts -- it also had parts. the rise attention her could not be repaired until we -- it was going to be repaired. other than that, these were mainly long-term items that appeared on numerous reports. >> yesterday, i asked him a question. he had been looking at these reports. if he saw the same items appearing time and time again on these daily reports, to which he might ask additional support. do you have a similar threshold? >> yes, sir. that is why i know the status of these because we discussed it with the transocean people and they gave us the different responses on the different time frames on when they were going to have these pieces replaced and fixed. >> if you were unsatisfied with the progress being made by transocean, who would you go to to try to gain their compliance? >> paul johnson was a great manager. -- rig manager. >> during your daily meetings, do they epoch's debate in those? >> on occasion, not every day. >> how frequently do they participate? >> once a month. >> at least once a month, a member of their group would be aware of the various maintenance and related issues that were ongoing? >> yes. >> they would have some level of awareness? >> yes. >> de know, if ever, based upon your conversations in your meetings, did anybody reports that these items to the coast guard or one of the maritime classification societies related to the deepwater horizon? >> i do not know if transocean reported the items are not. >> as far as you know, no one in the bp -- no one within bp did? >> not that i am aware of. >> not that i am aware of. >> sir, are you familiar with maritime classification societies as they relate to offshore drilling platforms? >> not really, sir. >> you did not really understand what their role is in the inspection certification of the vessel? >> no, sir. co>> did you ever visit the deepwater horizon? >> yes, sir. >> what was the nature of your visit? >> i would go to see the crew, see the well site leaders, talk to the third-party folks. just for general visits. usually did not have any plans or major agenda. just to go out and see how everybody was doing. operation running to safety walk around to see the overall condition of the raid -- rig and talk to the people. >> do you recall when your last visit was? >> it was at the beginning of february. >> do you recall whether or not you discuss any particular safety items? >> we discussed dropped objects and hands placement because that was a thema -- a theme that we were concentrating on. >> do you recall whether or not any of those said the discussions related to the way or the deferred maintenance on the vessel? >> we did go through with the transocean people on board about any progress being made on the main and tissues and any issues any way we could help. >> were you satisfied with their explanations concerning progress? >> yes, sir. >> ok. thank you, sir. i have no further questions. >> you indicated that all personnel dues and comply with transocean safety management systems. based on previous testimony, senior personnel did not recall some of the basics specifics regarding the safety management system. they did not recall very much. did bp received a result of these safety management system audits, the last one? audits, the last one? > did the marine authority group or which group received the results of the safety management system audit? >> i did not receive it. >> i did not receive it. >> we base a lot of things on vessel safety management systems. it appears to me that there it -- this lack of knowledge of the system, there is a lot of overdue maintenance issues. are you comfortable with the safety of the vessel? safety of the vessel? i know you tried to comply with it. are you comfortable with the inspection of the safety management system on deepwater horizon? horizon? >> we trust transocean to run an effective operation. we use their safety management system. they are the owners, they maintain, and we choose to operate under their safety management system because they are the experts. they have the marine group and the minutes groups. the minutes groups. to answer your question, we had faith that transocean was attempting to maintain a safe ship. >> in the military, you know, we often say that faith is not a very good business decision here. that is my point of view. >> the investigation by the coast guard and euro of energy management into the causes of the deep water horizon will rake explosion included testimony about the alarm system. this portion is an hour and a half. >> mr. williams, please rise. >> rise. >> please raise your right hand, sir. a false statement given to a governmental agency is punishable by fine or imprisonment under the title. knowing this, do you solemnly swear that the tesitomy you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> yes sir, i do. >> thank you, sir. please be seated. >> captain, i'm scot bickford. i'm representing mr. williams here, today. >> yes, sir. can you spell your name for the reporter? >> b as in boy, i-c-k-f-o-r-d. >> thank you, sir. >> mr. williams, for the record, could you please state your full name and spell your last, sir? >> my name is michael keith williams. w-i-l-l-i-a-m-s. >> thank you, sir. >> by whom are you employed? >> transocean. >> and what position do you hold with transocean, sir? >> chief electronics technician. >> and how long have you been the chief electronics technician? >> approximately six months. >> prior to your becoming chief electronics technician, what was your positions within transocean? >> electronics technician prior to that for a period of one year and prior to that i was a roustabout. >> and how long were you a roustabout, sir? >> with transocean, two years. >> were you a roustabout with another company as well, sir? >> no, sir. >> did you have any other oil and gas experience outside of transocean? >> none. >> ok. as chief electronic tech, can you please briefly describe your job responsibilities on board the deepwater horizon? >> first and foremost job responsibilites included maintaining the fire and gas systems and any and all electronic signaling devices throughout the rig. >> can you give me a background of your experience? >> i was in the united states marine corps and i was certified avionics technician on aircraft. that was the education level i used to achieve this job. >> can you indicate where you were located at the time of the incident? what i was in the e.t. shop. >> could you give us your best recollection of that day up to the event? >> starting at the time i will cub? >> yes, please. >> monday was a short chain today which would have been the 19th. i got about five hours of sleep the night before. we rotate from days 2 nights and from nights to days. nothing real unusual that day. it we were in a holding pattern, waiting for rig for operations to finish a cement job -- a floor operations to finish a cement john. we have pressure everywhere. they may get a no-go zone. i had some housekeeping items that needed to be taken care of. i needed the starboard crane that had been changed out during routine maintenance, and i had gone up to reset the limits as part of my job scope. the electrical limits for the boom after they changed up the cable. we stayed for approximately an hour. i took the chief mechanic with me, who was new to his position to familiarize him with the operation and give him an idea of what i do verses what his responsibilities on that same job would be. we went up to visit with the crane operator. we went through the limits. we stayed for approximately an hour and conducted some tests and made sure that the boom could go all the way down and all the way back up. we tested the limits. i proceeded back to my shop to take care of the rms requirement for that job. i needed to go put notes in the system and what my man-hours -- and lock my man hours -- log my man-hours. >> was anything that indicated there was a problem going on? >> i was on the phone with my wife. i have a paga rack. there is one forward and one half. -- one aft. during our phone conversation, we heard a gas flow will be announced -- level being announced. my wife actually heard the announcement through the telephone and asked if i needed to get off the phone. i told her that it was just an indication to make everyone aware of what the gas levels are. i had become somewhat immune to them because we got them so frequently. i did not even hear them anymore. we were getting gas back continually on this well. when the levels reached 200, that is the cutoff for outside work and that is one answer concerning myself with gas levels. i know that they are high enough that i do not need to be making sparks anywhere of any kind. that is when i started panicking. that was the only indication that i had that something was not necessarily out of the ordinary, but something to get your attention. >> after that occurred, did you hear anything, engine over speed or any thing will you were in your shop? >> could you rephrase that? >> was there anything out of the ordinary after you heard that alarm? was there any sound that indicated engine over speed or any kind of hissing? >> what happened next was that i heard a hissing noise and a thump. my shop is located directly below the riser package. it is not uncommon for the operators to run that in reverse to retract it out and it would hit the mechanical stops in the back and would literally thump in the shop. i heard a his and i assumed it was a hydraulic lift -- a hiss and i assumed it was a hydraulic lift. at that point, i got off the phone with my wife and told her that i needed to go check this out and make sure we did not have hydraulic will going everywhere. within seconds of that, i started hearing beating -- beeping. it is coming through my ventilation system. there is a cross ventilation system and i could hear the panel beeps, our local panel alarms. -- of which are local panel alarms. i wanted to know what was going on. i was trying to put this together in my head. we have the bomb, the hissing -- the thump, the hissing and then the beeps. i heard the engine start to rev. my shop is located directly center of the rig with engine number three on my portside and engine number four on my starboard. i know which engines are on line at any given time. i could hear engine no. 3 star to rev up -- start to rev up. the guardians were way above what i had ever heard before. it was continually and steadily rising i knew that we were having a problem. all the lights in my shop popped. the light bulbs themselves started to pop. i knew really -- i knew we were in trouble. i grabbed a door handle and the engine goes to levels let is higher than i can even describe. it is spinning so fast -- its soft -- it stopped spinning and then there was a huge explosion. >> after that initial explosion, were there additional explosions? >> there was. that explosion blew the fire door that was between me and those spaces of the hinges. it blew the fire door and myself across the shop. within seconds, the co2 system started discharging. the co2 controller was inside my shop as well. i could not see anything. i could not breathe because of the co2. there was no oxygen. i crawled across the floor and found the opening and made my way out. i had a small flashlight in my pocket that i put in my mouth to try to see. i still could not see. i made it to the next door by a seal and stayed on my hands and knees because i could feel the heat and i knew that if there was going to be in the oxygen at all, it would be at the bottom. as i reached the next door, i reached up and grabbed the handle for it and then it exploded. that was explosion no. 2. >> what was the time frame? >> i have no recollection of time. that explosion pushed me back 35 feet into another wall. as i clear that door, i remember getting are really angry. i do not know why i got angry. i was mad at the doors. the doors were beating me to death. two doors in a row hit me right in the forehead. it planted me against the wall somewhere. my arm would not work. my left leg would not work. i could not breathe. i could not see. i knew that i had to get outside and get some fresh air. the co2 was overwhelming. as i am crawling through the area, i crawled across the bodies of at least two men. i do not know their condition and they are not responding. i assume that they are dead and i keep moving because i know that i am in no condition to help them. i can barely tell myself of this point. -- help myself at this point. the flooring was elevated about 2.5 feet. all the panels were missing. i was tripping and falling for this grid worked -- through this gridwork. i could finally see light and i assume i'm headed in the right direction. eventually, i make my way outside. i turned to the right, and i knew what little bit of breeze we had was coming off the starboard forward bal. -- forward bow. you always walk up when of fire and smoke. i turned to the right, and as i did, i got my bearings and got my eyes cleaned out where i could see and i noticed that there was no walkway. there were no hand rails and there was no stairwell left. one more step and i would have been in the water. at that point, i looked up the wall and the exhaust stack for engine number three, the wall, the hand rail, the walkway, all of those things were missing. there were completely blown off the back of the rig's. -- they were completely blown off the back of the rig. i needed to go back to the left and head towards the star birdseye of the rig's. there are two lifeboats their. -- there. what i saw, what i heard and what i felt, i seriously considered launching a lifeboat by myself. i knew that something really bad had happened and it was not going to get any better any time soon. i had an inclination that this was worse than anyone could expect. i thought about it for a second and i remembered that i have responsibilities. i have a emergency station to go too. the problem was, my emergency station no longer existed. i made a decision to put my life jacket on right there and try to make my way to the bridge, which would be my secondary muster stations. -- station. i made the determination that if i could not make it there, i will launch the lifeboat by myself. the hissing noise has turned into a full-blown war and i look at the dog house and the derek. the dog house is on fire and half of the derek is on fire. it is then that i realize that we had a blowout. i made might way of wind and walked across the main deck, all the way forward to the -- my way of wind and walked across the main deck, all the way forward. i told the captain that we have no power and no ecr. he looked at me with a dazed and confused looked and i told him that we have no ecr. it has blown up. engine number three has blown up. we need to abandon ship, now. i just kept saying it over and over and over. at one point, i was told to come down, sit down, we are working on it. my supervisor walked over and assessed my injuries. he went looking for medical supplies and could not find any. he'd found a roll of toilet paper and began to try to stop the bleeding. i got enough of it out of my eyes so that i could see. i got an of toilet paper on my head to stop the flow of blood into my eyes. i remember him asking about the standby generator. he was asking the captain if he wanted him to start the standby generator. he asked if it would give him any propulsion. he said no, it would give a sliding. it would give us the ability -- it would give us lighting. you have to have the stem by generator -- the standby generators. i would have to say that because you have to go back to the fire, the generator was located adjacent to the dereck. it dawned on me that no one had volunteered to go with him. we were sending a manned by himself to try and start this generator. if there was going to be any success in that, we needed more than one man. i grabbed him by the shirt kaelin told him that he is not going by himself, that i was going with him. he objected to several times. and i said that if i do not go, you do not go. you are not going by yourself. at that point, another man, i believe his name was paul, grab ahold of my shirt tail and went back to the fire. we crossed the main deck and proceeded into the stand by a generator room and made several attempts to start this generator. i do not know how long we were in their. we made several attempts. several times, which tried other things that steve thought of. as an electrical supervisor, he was very familiar with the standby generator. we could not get it to respond. the signal would come on telling me that the batteries were available, but the engine would not do anything. we decided to stop the attempt and make our way back to the bridge and report our findings to the captain. on the way back to the bridge is when i noticed that lifeboat no. 1 had descended and was motoring away. they had descended from the rig's. as we got back to the bridge, the captain announced that he had given the order to abandon ship, that it was a lost cause and we would not be able to fight this fire and that it was time to leave. as we were making our way down the ladder way to get to the lifeboats, lifeboat no. 2 descended. now, the to forward lifeboats are gone. once they go down, there is no coming back up because we have no power. someone made mention of if we could make it to the aft lifeboats. when i left there, they were in good condition. i did not see any physical damage or fire on a life boat deck at all. there would be a huge risk to go back across the main deck. there are several mining -- minor explosions. we did not know which way the derek would fall. we did not want to risk walking through there and having a fall on us. the decision was made to try to launch a life raft. there were three life rafts available to us. after what seemed like forever, we finally got one life raft or deployed -- one life raft deployed. we had an injured man with us. our first concern was to get him loaded. we were having difficulties with the draft and the angle with which to deploy. there was something on up in the arm. i am not sure what. there was a terrible and between the rig and a laugh last -- and the life raft. eventually, they got him loaded and there was a crowd of folks trying to get into the small opening. i remember grabbing two people and backing them up against of walter we had a 20 football kid behind us that would shield us from the derek -- i remember grabbing two people and back them up against a wall. we had a bulkhead behind us that would shield from the derrick. the smoke and heat are intense. there was some type of backdraft occurring underneath the vessel and it was starting to wraparound and feed itself. at that point, i was not sure that the right -- the life raft was going to survive. there was so much heat coming up that i thought the life raft might pop or melt and the people inside would cook. as we were waiting for an opening to develop for us to get into the life raft, when the whole finally developed and everyone had gotten in, the life raft deployed. there were three of us with no life raft and no lifeboats. there are two more life rafts at our disposal, but as long as it took the first one to deploy, i honestly did not feel like we would survive trying to deploy a second one. i did not know if we could successfully deploy another lifeboat in our condition. it was at that point that i am informed the other two individuals that we can stay here and die or we can jump. i remembered that in our training, they teach you to reach your hand around july traffic a run your life jacket and take one step and fall. the problem is, there is no life raft at the bottom. -- there was a life raft at the bottom. we could injure somebody. i remember telling a young woman that we would have to run and jump. i remember her responding that she could not jump to rid -- could not jump. i remember the other individual jumping and told her that he just did it, that she had to do it. she said that she could not do it, so i told her to watch me. i cleared the life raft by a pretty good ways. once i hit the water, when i came back up, i could not see anything again. now i've got a new set of problems. i have a hydraulic fluid, gasoline, diesel, what ever it is that is on the water is now burning my entire body. i cannot hardly breathe. i could feel the heat from the fire underneath the vessel. i started backstroking with the one arm and one leg that would work until i it remember feeling no pain, no heat, and i thought that that was it, that i had died. some time later, i felt the heat again and i kept thinking that i had to swim. i heard something in the distance. i heard, "over here, over here. i did not know what it was, but i started swimming as hard as i could towards it. at one point, i did not hear the noise anymore or feel the pain anymore and then i felt something start lifting the about of the water. a small, orange rescue craft had grabbed me and flipped me over into the boat. i remember telling him that we need to give away from this fire. i was letting him know that the situation that we were in is normal. i said that i could not leave, that i still saw more lights. we retrieved a person, which was the dynamic position operator. at that point, i asked if we could leave. they said that there was a raft in the water and there were more lights on the water. we proceeded to go back towards the rig again. now, we are close enough and i can feel the heat again. i see the life raft, and it is literally still under the rig's and i could see people outside of the life raft. we get up to them and throw them a line and i realize one of the man is the chief electrician -- mint is a chief electrician. i told him that i did not have a nice. our policy was no pocket knives. as we pulled the life raft away from where it was, it was still tied off. there is a cutting device inside of the raft to cut the pager line. in the panic in the darkness, they could not find this cutting device. as we try to pull the life raft from the rig, it was not moving. we were simply stuck. finally, one of the gentleman that was in the life raft had a pocket knife and we got it to them and they cut loose and we pull ourselves over. >> thank you. just to go back, you had mentioned that there were several alarms going off indicating that there was a high gas levels when you are on the phone with your wife. is that right? >> that was a high gas little alarmed that came over the intercom system. >> do you know at what level? >> at 200 units of gas, that is where all her work has to cease. >> use said you started hearing panel alarms. what were you referring to? >> there are operating stations for vessel control systems and those are the local panels. that is where they get all their data t how the control functions on the rig. >> did you hear any alarm that would indicate a general muster? >> never. >> are you familiar with the alarm that i am referring to? can you explain to me how that is set up as far as your knowledge as to how it is set up? what's the general alarm is set up to inform the entire risk of any of three conditions, number one, fire, no. 2 combustible gas, and toxic gas. each alarm has a particular town. there is a red, yellow and blue color code. you get an audio tone and a visual tone with every general alarm. >> digit either one of those alarms -- did you get either one of those alarms? >> no sir. >> the you know why you did not? >> yes, they were bypassed. how do you know that they were bypassed? >> because i saw it on the screen. the correct word is inhibited. >> can you explain what inhibited means? >> you have four states of alarms. if you have normal operating conditions, and inhibited condition, which simply means that the sensor is active, it is sensing, and it will give the information to the computer, but the computer will not trigger an alarm for it. it will give you an indication, but it will not trigger the actual alarm. there is an override condition which means that the computer will not consider that sensor for any purpose. >> were there any alarms that were in the override position? >> none that i am aware of. >> this, and i am not familiar with the deepwater horizon's alarm system, if you did it in one area, what it shut in the air ta

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