breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year-old florida girl. six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in the heavily wooded area 15 houses from the anthony home confirmed to be little caylee. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth and then triple-bagging little caylee like she's trash. bombshell tonight. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just the last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain. it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal position, discovered in tot mom's car trunk. air samples already confirm human decomposition in that trunk. but now a virtual picture. a picture of little caylee dead in her own mother's car. and tonight another bombshell. duct tape wrapped around caylee's skull matching duct tape in the anthony home, determined to be extremely rare. torpedo to the prosecution. was all the testing on the duct tape, the tape wrapped around caylee's skull, ruined at the fbi lab? we learn a female lab tech's dna ends up on that tape, the tape on caylee's skull. we also discovered the defense so-called wish list. a list of people the defense p.i. was to investigate as potential scapegoats, someone else to point the finger at in court. hundreds of e-mails surfacing between grandmother cindy and the anthonys' private eye, secretly compiling charts to dig up dirt on key people connected to the case. and in a stunning twist, months after caylee's memorial, grandmother cindy still wants the p.i.s to search for a living caylee, insisting this photo of a little girl being investigated as a possible caylee sighting in puerto rico. and tonight a key witness emerges. possibly the last person to see caylee alive outside the family, placing her at a local walmart with tot mom casey anthony. >> you're talking about a 3-year-old little girl. i need to find her. >> i don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. you're not telling me where she's at. >> because i don't [ bleep ] know where she's at. are you kidding me? >> there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. >> my husband's a deputy sheriff years ago, and the first thing he thought was human decomposition. i'm a nurse. i thought human decomposition. >> maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. >> she is not a murderer. >> there is no evidence that casey ever did any harm to her child. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut there's a feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling, that presence. i know she's alive. >> i got within three feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that she could possibly smell in this world. and i've smelled that odor before. it smelled like a decomposed body. and tonight police on high alert for two little sisters, just 12 and 11 years old. the 12-year-old nearly nine months pregnant. the little girls allegedly taken on the run by their stepfather. why? north carolina police are still looking for a 12-year-old girl who is nearly nine months pregnant. she is due. she disappeared from her morrisville home along with her younger sister and adoptive dad. >> matthew hess left his estranged wife a note saying he was taking keara to lakeshore middle. he became suspicious when she didn't shoip for her doctor's appointment. >> i'm told 12-year-old keara intended to keep the baby. she may have already delivered. investigators say inside this home where she lived with her father there are plenty of baby supplies and equipment. >> police are worried that 12-year-old keara, due to deliver a baby any day now, isn't getting the medical attention she needs. >> please drop them off. i just want the girls. okay? >> time may be running out for keara's baby. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain, it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal positi position. discovered in her own mother, tot mom's trunk. >> if you say the remains, sirks one more time, i'm walking out. how dare you say that about my granddaughter? how dare you? >> they hold all of their information from mep yet at the same time they're twisting stuff. they've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find caylee. >> i believe there's something that day. i smelled in my own gut. >> it was an overpowering smell. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. >> maybe my daughter ran over something. >> air samples don't mean anything. >> if they continue to, you know, look at evidence that hasn't been servicverified, you are going to put caylee in a coffin because eventually something's going to happen thoer if we don't find her. >> person in the back of my granddaughter's car is not my granddaughter! >> that's an odor you never forget. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the stain that was in the trunk of my daughter's car, i opened up the trunk, we will the windows rolled down, the sunroof open. instantaneously that gets in your house, just like that. >> straight out to kathi belich joining us from wftv there kathi, what can you tell me about the results of these high-tech fbi tests? >> well, if you're referring to one of the fbi investigators noticed and then another agreed that the mysterious stain that was in the trunk of casey's car actually took on the shape of a child in the fetal position, and they said they could actually distinguish the back area from the bottom area from the leg area. and they did further testing on that. they were trying to get that video enhanced so that you could print it up and see it rather than just look at it on a computer screen. >> to ellie jostad, our producer on the story, joining us from l.a. tonight. ellie, what can you tell me? >> well, nancy, we also found out more about the hair that was found in the trunk. one of the fbi investigators writing that this hair is consistent with a dead body. she also said it matches hair on a hair brush they knew was used to comb caylee's hair. she also points out that the hair does not match casey anthony. it's the -- >> stop right there, ellie. hold on. so the hair found in the trunk we know is from a dead body because the hair -- see if you can pull up that shot we have depicting a death ring on a hair. a dark-color ring comes -- appears on a hair near the follicle, near the root, postmortem. so this hair had that death ring on it. we can also tell from either nuclear or mitochondrial dna that it belonged to either tot mom casey anthony or her daughter, caylee. then it was ruled out. tot mom's ruled out because the hair wasn't treated with dye or bleach. this only leaves little caylee. now what are you telling me about the hair? >> well, nancy, now we're saying that this is a less sophisticated test. it's not dna. it's a microscopic test that indicates the hair matches the hair on the hair brush and it does not match samples of casey anthony's hair. >> so bottom line, this is the baby's hair. this is caylee's hair. i want to go back to the silhouette. the silhouette found on the trunk, tot mom's trunk lining. what can you tell me about that? i mean, i already know that the hair belongs to caylee. i already know that. >> well, nancy, there is e-mails going back and forth between fbi colleagues. one of them says a very interesting photo exists which you have, there's a large stain. if you look closely at this photo, there appears to be an outline or a silhouette of a child in the fetal position. now, this fbi investigator asking a colleague what can they do, can they enhance the photo-k they send the trunk liner to the body farm for further testing? can they figure out what made that stain? >> we are taking your calls live to beverly in new york. hi, beverly. >> caller: hi, nancy. i'm sorry, but you already answered my question. i wanted to know if the hair had ever been positively identified. >> well, let's just run back through that. nikki pierce, wdbo radio, nikki, i know they did either nuclear, which is from the root of the a air, or mitochondrial dna testing on the hair. now, am i correct? was it determined it was either caylee's or casey's? >> it was determined that it was either casey's or caylee's. but we can see now from these new documents that in appearance it does not match casey's. it looks like it came from the hair brush that cindy had given them, grandmother cindy had given them when fbi investigators had requested a brush and they said casey and caylee used that brush together. and that piece of hair does not match casey's. >> unleash the lawyers. susan moss, the fact that hair was found in the car, which was a hair of death, which showed that somebody who had that hair had died. when you look at this in its entirety, that's when you see how powerful it really is. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. >> i felt rotten whatever it was. maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. >> air samples don't mean anything. psps they are saying that. they're saying in the trunk of the car. >> there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. you know how hot it has been. that smell was terrible. >> tracy sargent here with her detection dog cinco. both from homeland security. tracy, do cadaver dogs ever alert on food ever? >> no, ma'am, they do not. that's one of the training things we do with these dogs, that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained off of that. they are only to alert to human remains scent. >> there's something wrong. they found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the crime scene investigators are working on the car, trying to determine where the smell is coming from. they also found a stain inside the trunk of the car that came up under black light that's questionable and we need to process. >> it started around that time when two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and they died in there. >> 911. what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff. i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a mop her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. >> okay. what is the address that you're calling from? >> we're talking about a 3-year-old little girl. my daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. >> straight out to the calls, everyone. in case you are just joining us, tonight we learned technicians at the fbi lab have identified a silhouette. it's a stain. it is a silhouette of a child's tiny body curled up in the fetal position in tot mom's trunk. a virtual picture of little caylee as she lay dying. unleash the lawyers. susan moss, bill schaeffer, daniel horowitz. bill schaefer, you're there on the scene from orlando. what do you make of it? >> it's very damning. it's another strong piece of circumstantial evidence. the problem with the defense is that every time they pop one of these chains there seems to be another piece of evidence to take its place and reinforce it. and this evidence is consistent with what was found in the trunk, indicating that this is where little caylee's body was. and the other thing is her body in that car, alive or dead, in the trunk, that is significant. that child should not have been in the trunk in any respect. >> daniel horowitz, you've tried so many murder cases as a defense attorney. give me your best shot to defend against this. >> i don't think the forensic evidence is that strong. if the jury also believes she's guilty, then they'll give a lot of credence to it. but really it's an ink blot test. one person's curled-up body in a fetal position could be another person's pizza that just rotted in the trunk. the science of the hair and the ring of death is very dramatic, but there's not very much background or backup for it. so bottom line is this is dramatic evidence but it's not really persuasive evidence all by itself. >> good stab at it, horowitz. i thought that either you or giudice would try to compare it to those magic eye photos where you have to squint your eyes to really see the picture. but apparently, people at the fbi can very clearly make out the silhouette of a child in the fetal position. celia in alabama. hi, celia. >> caller: hi. how are you doing tonight? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: why is it the courts won't require the rest of the family members to undergo a polygraph test if for no other reason for credibility in court? >> i'll tell you in a nutshell, you cannot force anyone to undergo a polygraph test, especially if it goes against their self-interests. in this case also -- well, in every case, celia in alabama, polygraphs are not admissible in court unless both parties, defense and state, agree up front before trial that regardless of the outcome it's going to come into evidence. and believe me, both sides in this case are not going to agree on anything. to brenda in west virginia. hi, brenda. >> caller: yeah. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: hi, nancy. yeah, i have one quick question and one quick comment. can you tell me if this precious little baby has been either cremated or buried yet? and -- >> okay. what do we know about that, kathi belich, wftv? >> from what i remember, the family had caylee's body cremated and it is somewhere that they are not divulging. >> it was an overpowering smell. i'll admit that. >> at first glance you thought this may be the smell of a body, or dexcomposition? >> possibility, yeah. i mean, maybe my daughter ran over something. when i arrived, go through the garage door like i typically do -- >> i just went oh, [ bleep ]. like i just -- i couldn't even describe it. i'm just worried that the police are not following up caylee as a missing person and they're trying to build a case against my sister like for a homicide. >> who took her? and then casey goes, the nanny did. she was kidnapped. >> i believe everything that my sister tells me. >> straight out to kathi belich, joining us from wftv. regarding this stain, i understand that the anthony family's response is it is an old stain, that the car had gone through a lot of people. >> i don't know a whole lot about that. i do know that their attorney, brad conway, plans to make some sort of a public statement tomorrow in reaction to all this. we did ask him to speak today, but i guess he hadn't seen all the discovery. >> ellie jostad, what do you know? and also, what can you tell me about the fbi allegedly destroying the duct tape evidence, the duct tape found wrapped around caylee's head? >> right, nancy. well, about the stain, yes, the anthony family has tried to explain this away, saying it was there before caylee ever went missing. about the duct tape, two big problems with the duct tape that we just learned about today. number one, they found some unknown female dna on that tape. they couldn't figure out who it was from. not from caylee, not from casey anthony. they eventually went and -- it looks like they tested female fbi agents, other female technicians involved in processing the tape. they were able to determine that the dna on the tape matched one of the technicians. the other problem with the tape. there was that heart-shaped residue that we've heard about on the non-adhesive side of the tape. apparently, only one technician observed that. no photo that we know of was ever taken of that heart shape. and the tape itself was destroyed -- the marking on it, rather, was destroyed during the testing process. so the jury's not going to be able to see what that image looked like. >> okay. there you have the defense on a silver platter. to you, daniel horowitz. getting an fbi lab tech's dna on this crucial evidence, the tape wrapped around the child's head, is a torpedo to the state. >> it shows sloppy work, nancy. i could see innocent ways it could happen. you probably are dissolving the things on the tape in acid. or it's not acid. but alcohol. and extracting. and dna can fall on it. but that missing heart, the evidence that may be manufactured, that's a tremendous concern. that could be fatal to the forensics in this case. can someone let me -- come on! >> that odor, that's something you'll never forget. >> there's something wrong. they found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> my entire life has been taken from me. everything has been taken from me. >> i believe something was placed in the back of that trunk. i don't want to believe it was my granddaughter. >> i'm going to hang up and just walk away right now. let me speak for a second. dad, i let everybody talk. >> i don't want to believe it's any other kind of -- any other thing. deep inside my heart i feel it's not. >> i can't even swallow right now. it hurts. >> i opened up the trunk. i was glad because my daughter or my granddaughter weren't there. i'm thankful for that. but there was a trash bag. i don't know what size gallon. it's a kitchen type trash bag. it was white in color, almost transparent. inside of it i could see a pizza box. i couldn't make out what pizza it was. but there was pizza full of maggots and all kind of stuff. and odor. it was very, very, very strong. >> straight back to nikki pierce, wdbo. nikki, what can you tell me about cindy anthony wanting investigators to investigate a recent photo of a little girl taken in puerto rico? a living caylee, she believes. >> nancy, we just learned today that cindy wrote an e-mail in july to her attorney, brad conway, showing him a picture and saying i believe this could be a live older caylee. she was in puerto rico with somebody named zenaida. so that had been forwarded on to dominik casey perhaps for an investigation. and we received that today. it seems to lead one to conclude that cindy is still looking for a live child. >> what do you make of it, ellie jostad? >> well, thansy, there's other interesting e-mails between the family and their investigator dominic casey. richard grund, the father of jesse graund, ex-fiancee of casey, trying to connect his father to roy hobbs, the guy who found the remains. also looks like the investigator was trying to find other people, persons -- i he didn't call them persons of interest. i believe he called them characters of interest. other people that they were trying to investigate, do background checks on it. that was a released in the documents today. >> i want to go now to leonard padilla, bounty hunter, included in many of the anthony family private investigator notes, as you recall. he first bailed tot mom out. he's joining us via skype from sacramento, california, where he is a bounty hunter. leonard, thank you for being with us. what do you make of all this? especially the silhouette in the car that looks like a child in the fetal position and this recent photo that cindy anthony is having private investigators investigate that it's a living caylee in puerto rico. >> well, if you were to believe cindy thinks you have to do away with all the forensics and the studies done at the body farm and the fbi lab in quantico. as far as the stain or the indentation in the trunk of a child in the fetal position, that first came up the very first night that we met with george and cindy. they said there was a stain in the car that the cops were alluding to being something -- decomposition, but it was there when we bought the car for lee years ago. however, the -- it doesn't flezly haflez necessarily have to be a stain. it could be an indentation in the napping of the carpet inside the trunk of the car. and therefore, there might not be any dna. it may just be the body did an indentation like a footprint in your carpeting at home. so it doesn't have to have dna like a lot of people are speculating. >> out to the lines. melissa in california. hi, melissa. >> caller: hi, nancy. we love you. my 6-year-old loves watching along with me. >> thank you. thank you for watching. and thank you for calling in. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i wanted to know, do you think that maybe casey tried to clean up the stain by using something that contained chloroform and that's why it was found in the trunk and that would explain her web searches, to see what chloroform is used for? >> to dr. patricia saunders, clinical psychologist joining us from new york. you know, dr. saunders, you've seen it all. now, i understand melissa's thinking. but we also have in those computer searches conducted by tot mom searches for household items used as weapons, neck breaking, all sorts of sinister and nefarious-sounding google searches. >> i don't think there's any way out for casey anthony really that even if she used chloroform to clean up the body there was a body there and there's pretty much overwhelming circumstantial evidence. the whole family engages in let's call it creative reality. they see things, interpret it any way they want to. casey just flat out lies. >> to dr. marty makary, physician and professor of public health joining us from johns hopkins. he's in washington, d.c. tonight. dr. makary, can you imagine -- i mean, you deal with children all the time. any circumstance that a child should be lying in a car trunk? >> not at all. and you know, a hair cell and a stain may sound trivial, but it is a treasure trove of forensic medical evidence. you can tell not only the color and the treatment down to the shampoo or conditioner used that day but the root describes whether or not it's been pulled, naturally fell out, or sloughed off from blood flow being cut off from someone's death. same with the stain. there's mold, fungus, and moisture that builds up without dna that can outline any body, given the pressure of a person in that position. >> explain. >> well, a person in that position is going to have an indentation simply from the pressure, and moisture will form an outline. that moisture will then be co-infected or, as we say, colonized with bacteria and fungus that will perform a periphery or rim around that silhouette. and that's what investigators can look at without any dna evidence and make a pretty strong conclusion that that was a body. >> well, doctor, you have just very beautifully demonstrated why you are the m.d. and i'm just the j.d. it makes perfect sense when you say it that way. to john lucich, former criminal investigator, president of high-tech crime network, joining us from new york. john lucich, the stain, the silhouette of the child in the fetal position is not -- that we know of now. they're not telling us what the moisture is. but they're not saying it's dna. how do you think they first noticed, or what test were they conducting on it? >> well, they saw the image. i think that's what brought their -- everyone saw the stain right off, but only they saw the image. i think what they're going to have to do here, digital imaging forensics is a very complex science, but they -- >> wait a minute. digital what? >> digital imaging forensics. >> okay. >> they can actually take a photograph and digitize it, bring it into a computer, and they can do things with computers, they can do the color balancing, they can illuminate dark areas and see clear shadows. they can refocus if the image was off, and they can actually increase the resolution. in one case that i read about they had a fingerprint against a plaid background. they were able to smooth out that plaid background just to be able to recognize the fingerprint and compare it to someg and the case got solved. so digital imaging forensics are something that's been out there for a while, and i think it's going to be key in solving this stain problem. >> to raymond giudice, digital imaging forensics. yes, they can do it. they can also paint a portrait of the last supper on the side of that car. but that doesn't mean it's going to come into evidence. >> that's right. >> just wait. try to go down the middle of the road, giudice, all right? >> i will. >> do you believe that digital imaging forensics that lucich has just told us about would come in at trial? i think it might. >> i do not as based on what i hear now, which is i'm looking at the e-mail from the fbi that says -- >> yes-no, please. >> -- we can't tell whether this outline was caused by blood, fluid, or decomposition. they can't tell. >> can you answer yes or no -- >> i did -- no, it's not coming in. >> what about it, horowitz? yes-no? >> it's not coming in. it's like michael jackson's ghost that we saw on cnn. you can see lots of things when you play with digital photography -- >> i guess that's a no from you. what about it, sheaffer? >> no. prejudicial impact outweighs the probative. too speculative. >> susan moss, throw me a bone here. >> they will try and it might fly. i think it might come in. if they can say this is a generally accepted way of doing this type of method, i have a feeling it's going to pass both albert and the frye tests. >> there was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the sc car full of maggots. you know how hot it's been. that smell was terrible. believed to be in the company of their adoptive father matthew hess. >> hess apparently left his estranged wife a short note saying he was taking one of the girls to school. police say he may have abducted them. the pregnant girl is in immediate need of medical attention. >> apparently, there were some other complications with her pregnancy. and we don't know if he realizes that. if he realizes she needs medical attention. >> investigators suspect the girls may have been taken to tennessee. >> they're going to have to surface at some point in time. they're going to need food. keara's going to go into labor. they're obviously going to need baby supplies. so i feel at this point, yes, that we're going to find them, that they're going to be hopefully okay. straight out to adam hicks, reporter with newstalk radio 1200 wxit. adam hicks, you've got a 12-year-old and an 11-year-old little girl, sisters. the 12-year-old is about nine months pregnant. and the stepfather, now adoptive father, takes off with both of them? >> that's right, nancy. now, keara, she's the 12-year-old who's nine months pregnant, she was actually due to give birth to the child over the weekend. and the mother, janet, she works night shift. she said the last time she saw the children was about 9:00 wednesday night before she went in to work. she got off work about 4:00 that morning and she got up at 8:00 later on in the day to -- 8:00 a.m., and she found a note from her husband, matthew hess, saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> some supplies. tell me, how long have they been married? nine months? >> no. the two have been married -- this is janet hess and matthew hess have been married about 10 years. and keara hess and sierra hess are both adopted. >> okay. adam hicks, give me that timeline one more time. >> jeanette hess, she works the night shift. so she went in to work at 9:00 on wednesday night. before she went in to work she saw the two girls at home and safe. she got off work at 4:00 that morning and then she ended up waking up for thursday at 8:00 a.m. on thursday, and that's when she found the note from her husband saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> join meg right now, lieutenant julie gibson from the ardell county sheriff's office. lieutenant, thank you for being with us. lieutenant, do we know who the father of the baby, the 12-year-old the carrying is? >> we do not know who the father of her child is. >> had there been any tensions or arguments between the stepfather and the mother? >> no. we've talked to the mother about that quite a bit. prior to her going to work that night everything was fine. she had no indication that's there were any problems at all. >> so you've got a 12-year-old little girl that's nine months pregnant, and the parents can't get the fient of the father out of the child? >> that was investigated by another agency. they moved to our county in july of theis year. so as far as that investigation, we were not involved in that. >> do you believe that would have some bearing on what's going on here? >> there's a lot of questions that we'd like to ask once we locate them. but our primary focus is just finding them, getting the recovery, making sure keara's safe. >> understood. lieutenant julie gibson joining us from north carolina. to clark goldband, our producer on the story. apparently, this 12-year-old's life is in danger. a 12-year-old little girl nine months pregnant on the run with her stepfather and her 11-year-old little sister. go ahead, clark. >> and law enforcement is concerned, nancy, that these two may be in extreme danger because the 12-year-old girl who's pregnant has missed an important medical appointment that she was supposed to attend. also the -- >> well, forget the medical appointment. the baby's due, clark goldband. the baby was due this past weekend. >> and the mom has also spoken out in the press saying that in fact it is so important that this procedure was to take place. mom has also said she's asked the 12-year-old girl who the dad is and she's responded that it's a "young person" according to published reports. >> okay. do we have any idea? out to adam hicks, wxit. the motivation of the stepfather for take the children away? >> no, nancy, they haven't heard any kind of motivation from any of the authorities or any of the published reports for that matter. >> everyone, the tip line, 704-878-3100. this is a case that is baffling everyone. take a look at this vehicle. a green '93 ford explorer. back right passenger window broken, covered with plexiglas and duct tape. you can't miss that. tag number y yellow, t texas, e 8014. please look at this rec. again, tip line, 704-878-3100. to dr. marty makary, what tests could be so crucial this late in the pregnancy? >> maybe a test for diabetes. but quite honestly, the big concern here is that in a 12-year-old that pelvis is narrow, the labor is for sure going to be protracted, long, and drawn out. the person's going to be at risk for dehydration, malnutrition, bleeding and infection. so there's a high risk here. >> you know, dr. makary, you kind of glossed over the risks associated with delivering. if he is on the run with these children, it's very likely he's not going to take them to a hospital. he may have her deliver this baby in some sleazy motel room. >> all the more reason. >> and a lot can go wrong in pregnancy. i was at one of the best hospitals in the world for pregnancies and deliveries, and the tleef us nehe three of us n. >> child birth was the number one killer of women before modern obstetrical care. without good care she may very well bleed to death during the labor. >> to patricia in maryland. hi, patricia pl. >> caller: hi, nancy. how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: first i want to say your book is excellent. >> well, thank you for buying "eleventh victim." >> caller: and my next question is has there ever been any at all whatsoever domestic viejs in the home? >> what do we know, adam hicks? >> we have heard reports from an interview with the next-door neighbor that there is maybe a possibility of some mental abuse from the father, the stepfather of the family, but no physical abuse, no reports of that. >> mental abuse on whom, adam hicks? mental abuse on whom? >> we've heard that from the stepfather matthew hess, we have heard from the neighbor that he may have been yinge negative things about his wife, jeanette p jeanette hess. >> if this is talking to a neighbor about your wife -- >> no, no. talking to the children about his wife. >> oh. talking to the two stepdaughters about their mother. dr. patricia saunders, that puts everything in a whole new life. >> yeah, it does. one possible scenario is that he abducted these girls to punish the mother, to deprive her of a potential grandchild that looked like it was planned. the girls were packed up, they went. or maybe she wanted to turn the baby over to the state and he said no way, that the girl wanted to keep the baby and he was going to go with that. >> everyone, we are going to break. we are taking your calls live. but a special happy birthday to arizona friend ginger gebbert. she's fighting and winning the battle against stage 4 breast cancer. with breast cancer awareness month around the corner she wants you to know you don't have to stop living after a cancer diagnosis. her attitude and faith is an inspiration to others, especially those battling cancer. her therapy, rescuing stray dogs and spending time with her two puppies. happy birthday, ginger, and stay strong. and tonight, a special congratulations to liberty united methodist church in macon, georgia. hearing the call to serve others. they are building a beautiful playground, redesigning, painting, and kicking off their very first parents' morning out to serve their community. love in action. break a leg, liberty united methodist church, and god bless the little children coming your way. she is pregnant and needs a medical procedure to protect her child. >> there are some things we've been told from her physician that make us very concerned that the baby needs medical attention right away. >> sierra and keara are believed to be in the company of their adoptive father, matthew hess. >> joining me right now, special guest from moorsville, north carolina annette ragula, the next-door neighbor of the family. miss ragula, thank you for being with us. are you surprised the stepfather has allegedly taken off with this little girl and her little sister? >> no, i'm not surprised at all. >> why? >> there's -- he's had a relationship with those two older girls that didn't seem normal to me. he always talked negative about their mother, which i couldn't understand. she didn't deserve to -- her children being turned against her. >> in what way? what would he say about the mother? he would be saying this to the little girl? >> yes. that she wasn't any good, that -- they didn't like their mother. they talked very poorly to her. they even used profanity, cussed at her, and he would never, ever correct them. >> with me is annette regula, the next-door neighbo the motheo the children being taken, hijacked by the stepfather? >> she's very upset, she wants her girls back she knows that the oldest one needs to have her baby, she knows that she needs to have immediate medical attention. >> with me is annette, all i know is that the two girls are missing. let's stop and remember army private first class, chad moss, 20, killed iraq. enlisted as a student, buried next to his father, who he lust. being a cop back home, leaves behind mom, janet, sister lori and renee, brother jerry. chad moss, american hero. thanks to our guest, but especially you for being with us. i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friends. >> i'm mike galanos, the senate finance committee included two amendments to consider a government-run health care option. well the amendment sponsored separately by jay rockefeller of west virginia and chuck schumer of new york. the republicans will filibuster any bill that comes with a public option. and he's willing to drop that with a health care reform bill that will survive a full senate vote. at the british navy seeking a fishing boat, it had about 384 million dollars worth of cocaine hidden on it. the royal navy intercepted the boat off the coast of south america this month. a man climbed the suspension cables threatening to jump, thankfully he was takely taken down. does what happened in zurich stay in zurich? roman pollansky plans to fight extradition back to america. and in between kicking up her heels in vagegas and planti trees in new york, the divine bette midler will be visiting the studio. and sarah writes a book, i tell you this is a family of literary lions, just like the buckleys, all this and more from the time-warner center in new york city tonight. welcome, everybody, glad you're here for my opening night. make yourselves at home. we have got a lot to cover in an hour so let's just dive right in. when sarah palin quit her governor's job, people wondered what she had up that versace sleeve of hers. it was her new book, it's called "going rogue. ." is this why she quit to write a memoir. >> no, she actually had the book before hand but they moved the whole schedule up because she resigned and did have time to work on that book. i think she resigned because people up there in alaska were trying to stop any progress she was making so i think she felt it was time to move on. why did she use the word rogue in the title. it means dishonest, a vega bond, why not maverick? why the word rogue. >> i questioned that too, but that is basically what the mccain people were feeling, that she went rogue, wasn't staying within the campaign limits they set on her and thank goodness she didn't. >> i think it's used in the term going off the reservation. going rogue is when somebody doesn't stick to the plan, i think that's what she means, i don't know. >> but it hasn't hurt her, has it? she's got 1.5 million so far in the first edition. >> bill clinton, $12 million hillary clinton $8 million. sarah got 7 million. plus somebody just paid $63,000 to eat dinner with her and she made a whole boat load of money in china. you have to give her a little credit, don't you jeanine? >> i don't know if i have to give her credit, but she's a good fund-raiser. she inspires people to give her money. i think she has an iconic status in certain circles. i guess that translates into them giving money. >> the $63,000 wasn't for her, that went to charity and she agreed to offer her lunch with sarah and they auctioned it and somebody paid 63,000 and the reason is because she is somebody who has attracted enormous attention, she's very exciting, electrifying for a great many people. >> is she electrifying for you? >> i haven't been to such an exciting convention since the ronald reagan days when she went up on that stage. the grass roots of the republican party were flat, we were uninterested that that ticket and john mccain picked her and it was just an overnight sensati sensation. >> i think he wanted joe lieber man which would not have been such an electrifying ticket. >> it was i bust i think. >> i actually don't respond to her the way that her, you know, people do. what i do think is very interesting is how well she handles being thrown out there and could do it. many, many people would, i think, be almost incapacitated by nerves to be put out on a stage so quickly. i'm assuming she didn't have a lot of notice that she was going to be picked. >> but do you think the fact that they threw her out there is the reason she seemed tongue tied in conversations? she didn't seem to be able to make a coherent point in my opinion. i have seen her many times. >> i agree with you, joy, that there are some interviews that she seemed to have been so nervous and so cautioned, and i think what happened is they programmed her saying you can't say this but you can say this. and that's not her. she needs to be herself. she tried to be a team player and so she did exactly what they wanted. >> but she's hiding from the media now. she has free rein now to come out and do what she wants to. >> she'll put out the book and come out in another boon. >> we'll see her on these interviews for the book, whether she wants to run or not. what do you think, jeanine? >> i think she does enjoy public life, i think she does enjoy being involved in the process. i don't know why anyone would want to be president to tell you the truth, it seems to me to be one of the most unpleasant jobs in the world. some of the inarticulateness would be the micromanagement, it probably makes you nervous. but more important, i don't think she is particularly intellectually curious, i don't know that she has as wide breadth of knowledge. >> si think she's extraordinariy competent and i think she's a quick study or she couldn't have gone up against joe biden in that debate and held her own. so i think she is a quick study as well. but i do agree with jeanine on one point. she has come back to the east coast, been on television, and she doesn't seem prepared. she doesn't seem to have it down in her mind, okay the two big issues i'm going to talk about. i think she needs to be more disciplined. >> she doesn't seem to want to really do her home work, is what you're say ing. she has done her homework, i think she did it in the campaign, i think she has done it since then. maybe this book will help her. and things will turn around, and she has some time. coming up with clear ways of making her point than she has. >> i'm interested in her book, i can't wait for it to come out. i want to show you what david frumm said on "morning joe." >> what we know is that people become better as they become more educated. it causes people to shift away from the republican party. >> basically he's saying that as you get smarted and more educated you go away from the republican party. respond to that. >> i actually have a couple of things to say about that, i don't think it's about book smart to tell you the truth. i think what makes a person a liberal or democrat or progressive is emotional intelligence, it has nothing to do with academics. it certainly doesn't hurt to be well-educated and i think that today's republican party has moved so far from the party of lincoln, i don't know what their ideals have been in the past, but i believe that today's republican party is very anti-intellectual. it's very much a narrow, a very narrow focus. hey, there's music in my ear. >> we're nearing the end of the segment. but we'll be back with our panel in just a minute. don't go away. president obama will make his way to denmark this week. so what's the important international agenda? the olympics. he would like them to be held in chicago in 2016. joining me is cnn anchor, the lovely jack cafferty. you're not happy about this trip, why not? >> i'm not unhappy about it, i just wonder how it's going to play in peoria. last week they had that g-20 summit meeting in pittsburgh, they all agreed that global warming was going to be the death of us all. what do you suppose the carbon footprint is for his wife and oprah and staff and all the rest of the folks, secret service to fly to hans christian anderson land for a night and then come winging back. two 747s, air force one, and another that looks just like it. a military cargo plane that has to haul the president's bulletproof limousine. this to me was not the message that was communicated to the other world leaders last week in pittsburgh about how the united states has to cut down on it's carbon footprint. >> so this is just one being fairy tale to you? why does he think it's important to go, really? >> he's got no health care reform, there's no jobs, we don't have any reform of the clowns on wall street who took us down in the suer about a year ago. maybe when the going gets this tough, you go to denmark. i don't know the reason. >> but does he have to be in america to do the work? he can read on the plane. >> he can do a videoconference on the olympics from the white house and none of this would have to happen and he can make the same pitch over a satellite just like you and i are talking to each other here without all this dog and pony show trekking off to another continent. you know. >> what about obama just in general, do you think he still has his mojo or is it getting to be people think of him as just another president. because he really came in on a sea of hysteria and warmth and love from the american people. it doesn't seem to be holding off now. i don't know if it will change again. >> you're right, i think he's in trouble, i think health care reform bogged the country down over the summer. i think jobs are issue number one in the economy and getting the economy book on track and regulating the banks and the wall street firms and those things are all taken a back seat to increasingly act modebate onh care. >> is whoopi going to be on. >> she'll be on eventually, she'll be breaking a few eggs. some of the opposition to president obama has become down right scary lately. this week a disturbing poll turned up on facebook. look at this, it asks, should obama be killed? i'm back with jeanine garofalo and jean buchanan. >> the poll itself is now raged. i suspect the fellow behind it is going to be talking to his attorney soon. but as for the rage, there is true anger in this country, joy, and it's very legitimate. i saw it several years ago with the amnesty battles, i see it now. americans really feel they're losing this country, they're losing what they know is good and they see washington is not responsive to their needs, they're spending, they're bankrupting the company. and that is what they're up in arms about and it's a good point. >> i disagree entirely and i wish that was true, what you're saying. this rage at obama, from the tea partiers to the 9/12ers. the birthers, the deathers, this is racially motivated. >> you think so? >> this is a group of people, yeah there are legitimate things to be mad about and they should have been in the streets for the last 30 years. but this is race. this is increasing the post generational routine. anyone born at 1980 is being born into a country what's increasingly multicultural. this is racism. this is not about health care and taxes. >> this is not something you really prove directly. >> you can take a look at a lot of these signs that are being held up at this rallies. secondly it's all white people. if they were upset about taxes, if they were upset about bloated government, if they were upset about government dishonesty, the bush administration would have been a prime target for all of these. >> she's nodding. >> she's not nodding because she agrees with me. >> i was out at a number of these rallies during the bush campaign, these people were absolutely infuriated, why do you think they threw out all the republicans. 75% ofmens d americans disagree bush was doing. this has absolutely nothing to do with obama, with his race. wh it's what it's policies are. it's americans who are truly concerned about their country and are willing to express themselves publicly and this is the only way they know how to do it is get out in the streets and town hall meetings is because they're racist. >> but that happens in liberal, if you want -- >> how about the rallies, from the amnesty days where the left was out there with anti-american signs. >> no, this anti-american myth, i can't indulge you. >> i saw the signs then. >> give me an example. >> they turned the american flag upside down and that's how they had it upside down, what do you think that says? >> this negativist thing, which i know you have a lot of ties with, whether it's through brother's campaign, but from the capacity of a political advicer, i know that you know what i'm talking about and i know that you, like many people don't want to address this, i don't know why. we -- there is nothing wrong with discussing racial issues. there is a real problem. there is a 5% of people in a poll recently were asked would you ever vote for a black candidate, and the answer was no. that's millions of people i would assume translated into the agate. . >> but 70% supported obama in january. >> we're not talking about that. >> that's not them, they're not tea bagging. >> no, they are. many of them are. >> no, they're not. >> we were talking about before, the assassination poll that's on the internet. i mean we have never seen that for any other president. >> did you hear what was said about bush? they said he was hitler, he was like hitler. these were terrible statements about him. i think they were isolated, i don't think all liberals thought that, i think they disagreed with his policies. nowadays, there are certain elements, if i disagree with cap and trade, if i disagree with his policies, that somehow i'm a racist. >> i think he's saying that some are, not everyone. >> is there some racism left in this country? absolutely, but you cannot say the entire tea party movement. i do know these people. i have been among them. >> i was out there on the border and i knew those people and it was absolutely -- it was absolutely inspiring to see these great americans out there working on these issues. >> our own department of homeland security said that hate crimes and race related crimes are on the rise. now i know we'll never get through this, you and i will never see this. this is racism. i'm not talking about people that it wasn't racism for. >> are you not scared that a lot of these people are carrying guns? >> it's the american way to carry a gun. >> but to a rally for the president? did they threaten the president? was there any concern. >> but somebody could have a drink. >> what if black people showed up armed at any of these rallies? can you imagine the human cry. we would be on lockdown with martial arts. >> the obama people are out there, listening to them, there's a vigorous dialogue going on in this country. 56% of people disapprove of obama's health care, which mean that is don't want it. and congress is going to push it through. they have a right to express themselves. >> jon and kate minus 8 plus one. >> joy behar makes any discussion note worthy, by her humor, her intelligence and her unique insight. i would have told her all this 12 years ago when she started with us on the view. but i couldn't get a word in edge wise until now. good luck joy, i love you and to everyone else, take a little time to enjoy the joy. that was john goslin on "good morning america" earlier this month. she won't have to worry about that whole being abused thing on tv anymore. buzz tlv has announced that jon and kate plus eight will be renamed kate plus eight. janet, what a dumb title. kate plus eight, couldn't they do anything better than that. >> when i was at the magazine, we knew this was going to happen. eventually he would do himself in. this is a man desperate to get out of the show. he did everything he could to embarrass him, embarrass her, embarrass the family. and we had been hearing he wasn't even showing up to work on time. they kind of were left with no choice, but i also think that his offcamera antics got so embarrassing, so ridiculous, that for them to call themselves a reality show anymore is impossible if they're not incorporating those elements. the best level of abuse you could give to them now is to just get rid of him all together. >> there was some talking about her being, how shall i put that, bitchy, is that true. >> she was bitchy. >> when you have eight kids to feed and clothe and -- >> i have two kids and i'm a little bitchy at times also. that's why american women could get behind the show. they didn't like her, they didn't like her behavior, but there's elements they didn't like about themselves. >> she carried eight kids, can she carry the show? >> the ratings are down, the ratings are way down. >> it went from 10.6 million to 8.6 million that's quite a drop. >> the -- is it going to survive without the tension and the fighting? >> it's never getting back up to 10 million viewers. >> maybe that's why kate go gosselin needs at show. >> you can only milk those children for so long. when they're 14, it's not so cute. >> they could have a food fight, that could help. it's possible, you know, and then "in touch" reflects that john is apologizing, he wants to put the divorce on hold. he says he doesn't know now. does he regret throwing her under the bus? >> he's thrown her under the bus so badly, you can't pick that course up. see, i kind of doubt he wants back in. you don't go on national tv and say that you're 23-year-old pot smoking new woman is your soul mate and your wife never was. he said some things that you cannot take back. >> what about that other one, sanford when he said he found his soul mate. it's one thing to go and have sex with another woman but don't say it's your soul mate. >> yeah, yeah. >> why do we care about these people? i blame you mostly. >> yeah, i'm sorry. >> you and "us weekly." what types this thing up for us? >> i started "us weekly" it was a good little story. i didn't mean for it to become the summer of jon and kate now. >> it's like the summer of sam. thanks very much for coming on. bette midler joins me a little later. so stick around. today, legendary director roman pollansky is sitting in a swiss jail and fighting extradition to the united states. maybe he should have thought of all this before having sex with a 13-year-old three decades ago. joining me to discuss this, is he going to jail final? >> here's a guy who has pled guilty. she has admitted that he had unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old. absolutely he should go to jail. but the question is whether or not the swiss authority also allow the united states to extradite him back to be sentenced on the crime that he already admitted his guilt to. remember, he was facing the sentencing in 1978. he flew the coup. he left the country. >> it's not that simple. he served time. >> how much time did he serve? >> he served 43 days and they thought they had a deal and they were told that the judge was going to renig on the deal and based on knowing that the judge was going to renig on the deal, there was an excellent docume y documentiry about this. the case went over to his side now and is telling what happened. there's a lot that went on that we don't even know about. >> if they're going to renig on the deal, what happens is they allow you to withdraw the plea. he didn't want to go to trial. he applied a 13-year-old with alcohol and qualudes and had sex with her. >> he admitted to having sex with a minor. >> let's listen to what he said in an hbo documentary. >> i think it was very unfortunate to hear the judge misuse justice and he was playing with me for a period of a year. >> do you know what the shame of this is? if you admitted to having sex with a child, you now say the judge is unfair. look, if you think the judge was unfair then, submit yourself to the jurisdiction of the united states and i will consider it. that's all he needs to do is come back to the u.s. and face the music. >> he doesn't want to go to jail. >> don't you believe if you do the crime, you should do the time, no matter when it was? >> sometimes yes. and in this case, the woman, samantha gier who's 45 years old has said that she doesn't think this should go on. everyone should put this behind them. >> check out what she said on larry king in 2003. >> i got over it a long time ago, i mean it's been a long time and i wasn't prepared to carry a lot of bad feelings with me. and further damage my life and continue, you know, the -- just the trauma of all of it, and today, i mean i don't know, he's a strange tore me. >> good for her. she's moved on. but that doesn't mean that the criminal justice system should. it is not her against roman pollansky. >> was she paid off. >> there was some settlement. there was a settlement. but even a settlement would not require her to keep doing this defense. that was not a part of the settlement. so what's happened is, as the years have gone by and there's been efforts to bring him back to the united states and exonerate him, she's become more entrenched actually. i interviewed her in 2003 and last year when the documentary came out. she's become more entrenched in her position that he should be let go. >> it doesn't matter t truth is the man had sex, he is a pedophile with a 13-year-old. the fact she's forgiven him and she's moved on, good for her. >> war criminals should be tried and executesed. >> i'm not saying that she's a war criminal. if you're a child and you're being sexual assaulted by someone who's 45 years old, that is a war crime, isn't it. >> but this isn't a typical case of pedophilia, there were a lot of stories, she will tell you herself, there were a lot of stories about the extenuating circumstances. >> why did he plead guilty. why did he admit his crime in a voir dire. he admitted that he put his sexual part in hers when she was 13. that is rape as far as i'm concerned. >> it's not rape, he wasn't tried for rape, he wasn't convicted for rape. >> unlawful intercourse with a 13-year-old? >> did you hear the word rape in there? >> he used all of his favors back then because he's a celebrity, they gave him a plea bargain, he could have faced 18 years, they were giving him 15 months. >> listen to how hollywood is dealing with this. deborah winger reacted to pollansky's arrest, listen. >> we came to honor roman pollansky as a great artist, but under these sudden and arcain circumstances, we can only think of him today as a human being, uncertain of the year ahead. >> they're all rallying around him. >> they're all rallying around. >> there's a petition demanding his release and it's being signed by woody allen. hello! david limplg, jonathan deming. hilda swenson, the actress. >> when the film came out, i think they had 100 directors who signed a support letter for him. >> what's their rationale? that's a great artist? >> the directors have been asked that he be let go. in 30 years, he has never been any kind of danger to anybody. >> that we know of. >> he has a very good 20-year marriage. this was an isolated incident. >> out of 75 years, he only had a 20-year marriage? the guy's been doing something for 55 other years. >> you remember, he was married to sharon tate. >> that brings me to my last thing on this. do you feel any sympathy for him jeanine, the fact that he escaped the holocaust, that his family was killed in the holocaust, that sharon tate was dispickab d despicably killed by the man-season family. you didn't say to somebody that you can get away with taking a way a 13-year-old's innocence because you're in pain. that's why i believe they said we're going to move on from this, we'll give you a few months and that will be the end of it. >> let's talk about what's happening now. since the beginning of the year, his lawyers based on the movie have been in court trying to overturn the old case, bring new evidence, and also samantha geimer made her own motion to have the case undone. at the same time, there's a documentary filmmaker, the same one, who's been in court filming all year, and they have made the court crazy in los angeles. what it's done is aggravated the court. you know as a prosecutor, if you had all these people in your courtroom trying to overturn the system, people would be angry. >> no. >> i'll give you -- >> they have been trying to get him for 20, 30 years, 12 different countries. >> thanks to both my guests. up next, the divine ms. m. this lady made tv history and won an emmy as johnny carson's last guest. ♪ so long ♪ roll >> one of the great moments in television and now she's my first guest. here's hoping the magic continues, bette midler, thank you, honey for coming on my show. it sort of tears us up when we see that, doesn't it? >> for you. for me i'm all smiles. once in a while i get misty eyeded. he's a wonderful guy. he did so much for me, he did so much for so many people that i know. >> not me, i never got on his show. >> too bad. >> i'm sorry he's dead and everything. >> but here you have a show of your own, congratulations. >> he was a great guy, you're going to have a great run. >> i hope so, i'm glad that you are my first guest and you were his last. one more question about him, do you think he really wanted to ever leave? does anyone ever want to leave? >> i think some people want to and others don't. i think there's some people who work in television today who will have to be carried out feet first. and there are others who just have had enough. and it's hard work. if you're a certain kind of person, a curious person, it's like gee, i've been doing this for a long time and every day is pretty much the same. those kinds of people usually say, you know, i have had enough. >> what would you say if you weren't in vegas. >> i wasn't talk about me, i am not retired and you can't make me. >> you'll never retire? >> if i were going to retire, i wouldn't announce it, i would just back up into the wings and walk away. why would you say you're going to retire. what if you announce it, and then if you change your mind. >> let's talk politics for a minute. i know that you stumped for obama. was that th first time you stumped for a president? >> i stumped for all the democrats since the late '70s. >> they have been calling him a lot of bad names from a fascist to a social ist, which are the opposite. what do you think zwh. >> i think people of good will are very distressed by it because it's so ugly and it's so wacky. >> what should people of good will do. >> i think people of goodwill should talk rationally and politely in a civil tone and people should be willing to listen to the other side and the people that you're speaking to should be willing to listen to your side. that seems to be gone. >> well, we're trying to do that. but someone like glenn beck has made gazillions of dollars for being out there and being hateful in many ways. he calls himself a clown and a comedian. >> i don't think he's funny even a little bit. i find him terrifying. he's like an old school demagogue and it's really frightening. if you look around at the rest of the world and what this kind of behavior has done, like in rwanda, where as a demagogues got on the radio and fermented all that hate between the footsie and the tutus. i'm not for censorship. but i also feel like, be a human being. >> but you can't stop people from freedom of speech because they have the right to say it. it's the first amendment. >> i think that people who are educated to be civil are civil. that's all there is to it. people who are not educated in any way, who are just a little on the barbaric side. what can you do? but that's the fault of the education system, i think, and the way they're brought up. >> speaking of that, what do you think of sarah palin? >> i think she's a really interesting character on the american scene. >> do you identify her? >> i do not identify with sarah palin. according to levi johnson, she's never picked up a fishing rod or cooked. you know what? that article is so fascinating because it, the sound of it, the voice in the article was seen as so legitimate, that i thought it could go either way. >> so you believe him over her? >> it's interesting. i don't actually know the way -- i don't know many journalists. i know one or two of them. i don't know how they do what they do. i don't know how they manage to elicit all that information from someone like levi johnson. >> you don't know if he's telling the truth in "vanity fair." >> it's gotting to that point where you've voez father figures, walter chron cite, he's telling it like it is. where is walter? >> he died a few weeks ago. >> i know that. but what i mean -- >> you have mentioned two dead people in this one conversation to far. and we could go on. >> i want to change the subject, and i'm dying right now. >> you and i are constantly being -- they think i'm you and think think you're me. let's just look at the camera together for a second. there's a picture. look, do we look alike? >> i have a look on my face like buy are you pointing that camera at me, and you're like, hey, here i am? >> no, i'm pointing at something behind me. >> in this right here, we have had photographs taken before where we look very, very much r alike, especially when i had red hair. >> i went on a cruise when i was on the view. i walked around the boat and i did a show. and i heard someone say, how could they afford bette midler. >> i was on a holiday not too long ago. >> did you see roman pollansky? >> i went to the louver and looking for the lou. and a lady turned to me and said you look like bette midler. and i turned to her and said i bet you wish you had her money. >> i love your work, i saw you in vegas, i saw you in theaters in new york, in the old days, when you were first starting with barry manillo, all those great years, and all your albums. i'm gushing now. >> but you are not blue, you're not really blue. >> i do, i work blue. >> i would not say that was blew. >> you have to tell the audience at home what blue means. >> well, blue means that you're swearing. you might drop the f-bomb for example. in other words that george carlin said not to use on television. but you can do it in a concert. >> yes, you can and i do. so i sometimes feel like i'm working a little blue for my crowd. >> they love it. >> my husband says they pay to hear you swear. and i was almost like offended, but now i think he's right. >> people love that stuff. we're going the take a break, bette midler is not going anywhere, we'll be back right after this. over the weekend iran fired two missiles after the united states, france and england told them not to. now, which part of no doesn't mahmoud ahmadinejad understand? it's one thing to tick off the u.s., england and france, so we'll have less this year, so what, who cares? but you don't want to tick off israel. they already have nuclear weapons. they might use them and they're 15 minutes away from you. not to mention their prime minister, beebe netanyahu is not a which and will not be pushed around by a psychotic holocaust denier such as yourself, mahmoud. mr. ahmadinejad, don't think you're such a big shot. i never liked you anyway. you were boring when you spoke at colombia, annoying on larry king and you were tedious at the u.n. even gadhafi thinks you're a hack. the world is watching you and they don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. as my mother used to say -- [ speaking foreign language ] which i'm pretty sure translates to "never trust a short man with a long-range missile." that's just me. ♪ >> that was the divine bette midler performing at cesar's palace in las vegas. she's back here for dates in october and november. >> yes. >> very exciting. what are you going to do? >> two weeks in october and take a week off and do my halloween party. >> the hulaween. >> a hawaiian halloween. then i'm going to go back for two weeks in november. >> tell the audience who the party is for. >> it's for my organization. i founded it 14 years ago, new york restoration project. we clean parks in underserved neighborhoods. we are the owners and designers and care takers after 55 community guarders. we teach children's environmental education. >> very good. >> we teach rowing programs. we teach, teach, teach. >> you're very good. do you have ocd or something? >> i think i do. >> ha do you have that causes you to want to clean up new york? >> i think it's a compulsion. i really do. i was brought up in the most beautiful spot in the whole world. >> hawaii. >> hawaii. when i came to the continent of the united states, continent of north america, i said, why are the clouds brown? why -- >> that was california, right? >> that was california. why is there garbage on the street? i didn't understand that. it really disturbed me. that was my mission. i got on that path and never left. i never i would be still picking up garbage so many years after i stopped dating it. >> that's a good line. >> thank you. >> okay. so, vegas, how do you like vegas? >> i like it. i like it a lot. i've actually gotten to know the town a little bit. i have friends there. i have relationships. >> you have friends there of normal people? >> normal people. there a lot of normal people there. i learned poker. i can't play blackjack but i can play poker. i have my thing i carry with me all the time so i can memorize. >> how does your husband like it there? >> he doesn't mind it. >> he's a performer, too? >> he is a performer. >> i saw him at your birthday party. he did a performance arts thing. >> he's extremely charging and he's brilliant. just brilliant. >> so you're going to keep him? >> well, 25 years. >> yeah. >> yeah. so he loves all this. he's seen the show 40 or 50 times and cries and laughs every single time. >> oh my god. >> he's crazy. >> he's a keeper. >> he is really crazy. >> he is really nuts. you should keep him, though. >> i got him. >> okay. bette. i'm happy you came to see me. >> is that it? >> we are done. this was my first show. i had a wonderful night with all my friends here tonight. >> hulaween is on october 30th this year at the waldorf historia. be there or be square. crosby is going to be entertaining. i'll probably serve chicken pot pie. >> you usually sing. >> i always sing. we're honoring the mayor. >> mayor bloomberg. >> yes. >> my special guest, bette midler and my panel for joining me tonight. i'll be back right here tomorrow. good night, everybody. got through day one! breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year-old florida girl. six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in the heavily wooded area 15 houses from the anthony home confirmed to be little caylee. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth and then triple-bagging little caylee like she's trash. bombshell tonight. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just the last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain. it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal position, discovered in tot mom's car trunk. air samples already confirm human decomposition in that trunk. but now a virtual picture. a picture of little caylee dead in her own mother's car. and tonight another bombshell. duct tape wrapped around caylee's skull matching duct tape in the anthony home, determined to be extremely rare. torpedo to the prosecution. was all the testing on the duct tape, the tape wrapped around caylee's skull, ruined at the fbi lab? we learn a female lab tech's dna ends up on that tape, the tape on caylee's skull. we also discovered the defense so-called wish list. a list of people the defense p.i. was to investigate as potential scapegoats, someone else to point the finger at in court. hundreds of e-mails surfacing between grandmother cindy and the anthonys' private eye, secretly compiling charts to dig up dirt on key people connected to the case. and in a stunning twist, months after caylee's memorial, grandmother cindy still wants the p.i.s to search for a living caylee, insisting this photo of a little girl being investigated as a possible caylee sighting in puerto rico. and tonight a key witness emerges. possibly the last person to see caylee alive outside the family, placing her at a local walmart with tot mom casey anthony. >> it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. i need to find her. i don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. you're not telling me where she's at. >> because i don't [ bleep ] know where she's at. are you kidding me? >> there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. my husband's a deputy sheriff years ago and the first thing e thought was human decomposition. i'm a nurse. i thought human decomposition. maybe somebody put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. she is not a murderer. there is no evidence that casey ever did any harm to her child. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut there's a feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling, that presence. i know she's alive. >> i got within three feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that she could possibly smell in this world. and i've smelled that odor before. it smelled like a decomposed body. and tonight police on high alert for two little sisters, just 12 and 11 years old. the 12-year-old nearly months pregnant. the little girls allegedly taken on the run by their stepfather. why? north carolina police are still looking for a 12-year-old girl who is nearly nine months pregnant. she is due. she disappeared from her morrisville home along with her younger sister and adoptive dad. >> matthew hess left his estranged wife a note saying he was taking keara to lakeshore middle. she became suspicious when keara didn't make it to her doctor's appointment. >> i'm told 12-year-old keara intended to keep the baby. she may have already delivered. investigators say inside this home where she lived with her father there are plenty of baby supplies and equipment. >> police are worried that 12-year-old keara, due to deliver a baby any day now, isn't getting the medical attention she needs. >> please just drop them off. i just want the girls. okay? >> time may be running out for keara's baby. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain, it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal position. discovered in her own mother, tot mom's trunk. >> if you say "her remains," sir, one more time, i'm walking out. how dare you say that about my granddaughter? how dare you? how dare you? >> they have all of their information from me. yet at the same time they're twisting stuff. they've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find caylee. >> i believe there's something that day. i smelled in my own gut. there was an overpowering smell. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. >> maybe my daughter ran over something. >> air samples don't mean anything. >> if we continue to look at evidence that hasn't been verified, you guys are going to put caylee in a coffin because eventually something's going to happen to her if we don't find her. >> they find hair samples in the back of the care similar to the length and color of caylee. >> person in the back of my granddaughter's car is not my granddaughter! >> that's an odor you never forget. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the stain that was in the trunk of my daughter's car, i opened up the trunk. we had the windows rolled down, the sunroof open. instantaneously that gets in your house, just like that. >> straight out to kathi belich joining us from wftv there in orlando. kathi, what can you tell me about the results of these high-tech fbi tests? >> well, if you're referring to one of the fbi investigators notice then another agreed the mysterious stain that was in the trunk of casey's car actually took on the shape of a child in the fetal position and they said they could actually distinguish the back area from the bottom area from the leg area. and they did further testing on that. they were trying to get that video enhanced so that you could print it up and see it rather than just look at it on a computer screen. >> to ellie jostad, our producer on the story, joining us from l.a. tonight. ellie, what can you tell me? >> well, nancy, we also found out more about the hair that was found in the trunk. one of the fbi investigators writing that this hair is consistent with a dead body. she also says that it matches hair on a hair brush they knew was used to comb caylee's hair. she also points out that the hair does not match casey anthony. now -- >> stop right there, ellie. hold on. so the hair found in the trunk we know is from a dead body because the hair -- see if you can pull up that shot we have depicting a death ring on a hair? a dark-color ring comes -- appears on a hair near the follicle, near the root, postmortem. so this hair had that death ring on it. we can also tell from either nuclear or mitochondrial dna that it belonged to either tot mom casey anthony or her daughter, caylee. then it was ruled out. tot mom's ruled out because the hair wasn't treated with dye or bleach. this only leaves little caylee. now what are you telling me about the hair? >> well, nancy, now we're saying that this is a less sophisticated test. it's not dna. it's a microscopic test that indicates the hair matches the hair on the hair brush and it does not match samples of casey anthony's hair. >> so bottom line, this is the baby's hair. this is caylee's hair. i want to go back to the silhouette. the silhouette found on the trunk -- tot mom's trunk lining. what can you tell me about that? i mean, i already know that the hair belongs to caylee. i already know that. >> well, nancy, there is e-mails in between, going back and forth between fbi colleagues. one of them says a very interesting photo exists which you have, there's a large stain. if you look closely at this photo, there appears to be an outline or a silhouette of a child in the fetal position. now, this fbi investigator asking a colleague what can they do? can they enhance the photo? can they send the trunk liner to the body farm for further testing? can they figure out what made that stain? >> we are taking your calls live to beverly in new york. hi, beverly. >> caller: hi, nancy. i'm sorry, but you already answered my question. i wanted to know if the hair had ever been positively identified. >> well, let's just run back through that. nikki pierce, wdbo radio, nikki, i know they did either nuclear, which is from the root of the hair, or mite chondral tna testing on the hair. now, am i correct? was it determined it was either caylee's or casey's? >> it was determined that it was either casey's or caylee's. but we can see now from these new documents that in appearance it does not match casey's. it looks like it came from the hair brush that cindy had given them, grandmother cindy had given them earlier when fbi investigators requested a brush and she said casey and caylee used that brush together. and that piece of hair does not match casey's. >> unleash the lawyers. susan moss, new york. bill sheaffer, orlando. raymond giudice, atlanta. daniel horowitz, famed attorney out of san francisco. ray giudice, this is a virtual snapshot of little caylee lying there dead or dying in the fetal position in tot mom's car trunk. what more does a jury need, ray? give it your best shot, friend. >> i'll read to you the second e-mail your reporter left out from the fbi that says we cannot draw any conclusions as to what caused this image. it is too speculative. when the prosecution's fbi expert on the stand is saying too speculative, that's a defense lawyer's dream. >> okay. to sue moss. you know, i don't think a jury when they see what the fbi has, when you look at a silhouette, i don't need an fbi lab tech to tell me what i'm seeing. if i see a silhouette of a child in a fetal position and that silhouette is found in the trunk of the mother's car, do you even have to make a closing argument? >> absolutely. this stain can explain who is to blame. don't look at this piece of evidence, alone. look at it in total with all the other evidence. the smell of death in the car, the fact that that hair was found in the car, which is a hair of death, which shows that somebody who had that hair had died. when you look at this in its entirety, that's when you see how powerful it really is. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. i thought rotten whatever it was. something decomposing in there. maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. air samples don't mean anything. they are saying that. they're saying in the trunk of the car. there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. you know how hot it has been. that smell was terrible. >> tracy sargent here with her detection dog cinco. both from homeland security. tracy, do cadaver dogs actually alert on food ever? >> no, ma'am, they do not. that's one of the training things we do w with these dogs, that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained off of that. they are only to alert to human remains scent. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the crime scene investigators are working on the car, trying to determine where the smell is coming from. they also found a stain inside the trunk of the car that came up under black light that's questionable and we need to process. >> it started around that time when two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and they died in there. >> 911. what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff. i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a month. her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. >> okay. what is the address that you're calling from? >> we're talking about a 3-year-old little girl. my daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. >> straight out to the calls, everyone. in case you are just joining us, tonight we learned technicians at the fbi lab have identified a silhouette. it's a stain. it is a silhouette of a child's tiny body curled up in the fetal position in tot mom's trunk. a virtual picture of little caylee as she lay dying. unleash the lawyers. susan moss, bill sheaffer, raymond giudice, daniel horowitz. bill sheaffer, you're there on the scene joining us from orlando. what do you make of it? >> it's very damning. it's another strong piece of circumstantial evidence. the problem with the defense is that every time they pop one of these chains there seems to be another piece of evidence to take its place and reinforce it. and this evidence is consistent with what was found in the trunk, indicating that this is where little caylee's body was. and the other thing is her body in that car, alive or dead, in the trunk, that is significant. that child should not have been in the trunk in any respect. >> daniel horowitz, you've tried so many murder cases as a defense attorney. give me your best shot to defend against this. >> i don't think the forensic evidence is that strong. if the jury already believes she's guilty, then they'll give a lot of credence to it. but really it's an ink blot test. one person's curled-up body in a fetal position could be another person's pizza that just rotted in the trunk. the science of the hair and the ring of death is very dramatic, but there's not very much background or backup for it. so bottom line is this is dramatic evidence but it's not really persuasive evidence all by itself. >> good stab at it, horowitz. i thought that either you or giudice would try to compare it to those magic eye photos where you have to squint your eyes to really see the picture. but apparently, people at the fbi can very clearly make out the silhouette of a child in the fetal position. celia in alabama. hi, celia. >> caller: hi. how are you doing tonight? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: why is it the courts won't require the rest of the family members to undergo a polygraph test, if for no other reason but for credibility in court? >> i'll tell you in a nutshell, you cannot force anyone to undergo a polygraph test, especially if it goes against their self-interests. in this case also -- well, in every case, celia in alabama, polygraphs are not admissible in court unless both parties, defense and state, agree up front before trial that regardless of the outcome it's going to come into evidence. and believe me, both sides in this case are not going to agree on anything. to brenda in west virginia. hi, brenda. >> caller: yeah. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: hi, nancy. yeah, i have one quick question and one quick comment. can you tell me if this precious little baby has been either cremated or buried yet? and -- >> okay. what do we know about that, kathi belich, wftv? >> from what i remember, the family had caylee's body cremated and it is somewhere that they are not divulging. >> it was an overpowering smell. i'll admit that. at first glance you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition? >> possibility, yeah. i mean, maybe my daughter ran over something. when i arrived, go through the garage door like i typically do -- i just went oh, [ bleep ]. like i just -- i couldn't even describe it. i'm just worried that the police are not following up caylee as a missing person and they're trying to build a case against my sister, like, for a homicide. >> who took her? and then casey goes, the nanny did. she was kidnapped. i believe everything that my sister tells me. >> straight out to kathi belich, joining us from wftv. regarding this stain, i understand that the anthony family's response is it is an old stain, that the car had gone through a lot of people. >> i don't know a whole lot about that. i do know that their attorney, brad conway, plans to make some sort of a public statement tomorrow in reaction to all of this. we did ask him to speak today, but i guess he hadn't seen all the discovery. >> ellie jostad, what do you know? and also, what can you tell me about the fbi allegedly destroying the duct tape evidence, the duct tape found wrapped around caylee's head? >> right, nancy. well, about the stain, yes, the anthony family has tried to explain this away, saying it was there before caylee ever went missing. about the duct tape, two big problems with the duct tape that we just learned about today. number one, they found some unknown female dna on that tape. they couldn't figure out who it was from. not from caylee, not from casey anthony. they eventually went and -- it looks like they tested female fbi agents, other female technicians involved in processing the tape. they were able to determine that the dna on the tape matched one of the technicians. the other problem with the tape. there was that heart-shaped residue that we've heard about on the non-adhesive side of the tape. apparently, only one technician observed that. no photo that we know of was ever taken of that heart shape. and the tape, itself, was destroyed -- or the marking on it, rather, was destroyed during the testing process. so the jury's not going to be able to see what that image looked like. >> okay. there you have the defense on a silver platter. to you, daniel horowitz. getting an fbi lab tech's dna on this crucial evidence, the tape wrapped around the child's head, is a torpedo to the state. >> it shows sloppy work, nancy. i could see innocent ways that it could happen. you probably are dissolving the things on the tape in acid -- not acid but alcohol and extracting. and dna can fall on it. but that missing heart, the evidence that may be manufactured, that's a tremendous concern. that could be fatal to the forensics in this case. can someone let me -- come on! >> that distinct odor, that's something you never forget. >> there's something wrong. they found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> my entire life has been taken from me. everything has been taken from me. >> i believe something was placed in the back of that trunk. i don't want to believe it was my granddaughter. >> i'm going to hang up and just walk away right now. let me speak for a second. dad, i let everybody talk. >> i don't want to believe it's any other kind of -- any other thing but that pizza. that's what i want to believe. deep inside my heart i feel it's not. >> i can't even swallow right now. it hurts. >> i opened up the trunk. i was glad because my daughter or my granddaughter weren't there. i'm thankful for that. but there was a trash bag. i don't know what size gallon. it's a kitchen type trash bag. it was white in color, almost transparent. inside of it i could see a pizza box. i couldn't make out what pizza it was. but there was pizza full of maggots and all kind of stuff. and odor. it was very, very, very strong. >> straight back to nikki pierce, wdbo. nikki, what can you tell me about cindy anthony wanting investigators to investigate a recent photo of a little girl taken in puerto rico? a living caylee, she believes. >> nancy, we just learned today that cindy wrote an e-mail in july to her attorney, brad conway, showing him a picture and saying i believe this could be a live older caylee. she was in puerto rico with somebody named zenaida. so that had been forwarded on to dominick casey perhaps for an investigation. and we received that today. it seems to lead one to conclude that cindy is still looking for a live child. >> what do you make of it, ellie jostad? >> well, nancy, there's other interesting e-mails between the family and their investigator dominic casey. aparticipately they were trying to dig up some kind of connection between richard grund, the father of jesse grund, ex-fiancee of casey, trying to connect his father to roy kronk, the guy who found the remains. also looks like the investigator was trying to find other people, persons -- he didn't call them persons of interest. i believe he called them characters of interest. other people that they were trying to investigate, do background checks on it. those were all released in the documents today. >> i want to go now to leonard padilla, bounty hunter, included in many of the anthony family private investigator notes, as you recall. he first bailed tot mom out. then came off the bail. he's joining us via skype from sacramento, california, where he is a bounty hunter. leonard, thank you for being with us. what do you make of all this? especially the silhouette in the car that looks like a child in a fetal position and this recent photo that cindy anthony is having private investigators investigate that it's a living caylee in puerto rico? >> well, if you were to believe cindy thinks that you would have to do away with all of the forensics and all of the studies that were done at the body farm and the fbi lab in quantico. as far as the stain or the indentation in the trunk of a child in the fetal position, that first came up the very first night that we met with george and cindy. they said there was a stain in the car that the cops were alluding to being something -- decomposition, but it was there when we bought the car for lee years ago. however, the -- it doesn't necessarily have to be a stain. it could be an indentation in the napping of the carpet inside the trunk of the car. and therefore, there might not be any dna. it may just be the body did an indentation like a footprint in your carpeting at home. so it doesn't have to have dna like a lot of people are speculating. >> out to the lines. melissa in california. hi, melissa. >> caller: hi, nancy. we love you. my 6-year-old loves watching along with me. >> thank you. thank you for watching. and thank you for calling in. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i wanted to know, do you think that maybe casey tried to clean up the stain by using something that contained chloroform and that's why it was found in the trunk and that would explain her web searches, to see what chloroform is used for? >> to dr. patricia saunders, clinical psychologist joining us from new york. you know, dr. saunders, you've seen it all. now, i understand melissa's thinking. but we also have in those computer searches conducted by tot mom searches for household items used as weapons, neck breaking, all sorts of sinister and nefarious-sounding google searches. >> i don't think there's any way out for casey anthony really that even if she used chloroform to clean up the body there was a body there and there's pretty much overwhelming circumstantial evidence. the whole family engages in let's call it creative reality. they see things, interpret it the way they want to. casey just flat-out lies. >> to dr. marty makary, physician and professor of public health joining us from johns hopkins. he's in washington, d.c., tonight. dr. makary, can you imagine -- i mean, you deal with children all the time. any circumstance that a child should be lying in a car trunk? >> not at all. and you know, a hair cell and a stain may sound trivial, but it is a treasure trove of forensic medical evidence. you can tell not only the color and the treatment down to the shampoo or conditioner used that day but the root describes whether or not it's been pulled, naturally fell out, or sloughed off from blood flow being cut off from someone's death. same with the stain. there's mold, fungus, and moisture that builds up without dna that can outline any body, given the pressure of a person in that position. >> explain. >> well, a person in that position is going to have an indentation simply from the pressure, and moisture will form an outline. that moisture will then be co-infected or, as we say, colonized with bacteria and fungus that will form a periphery or rim around that silhouette. and that's what investigators can look at without any dna evidence and make a pretty strong conclusion that that was a body. >> well, doctor, you have just very beautifully demonstrated why you are the m.d. and i'm just the j.d. it makes perfect sense when you say it that way. to john lucich, former criminal investigator, president of high-tech crime network, joining us from new york. john lucich, the stain, the silhouette of the child in the fetal position is not -- that we know of now. they're not telling us what the moisture is. but they're not saying it's dna. how do you think they first noticed? i mean, what tests were they conducting on it? >> well, they saw the image. i think that's what brought their -- everybody saw the stain right off, but only they saw the image. i think what they're going to have to do here, digital imaging forensics is a very complex science, but they -- >> wait a minute. wait a minute. digital what? >> digital imaging forensics. >> okay. >> they can actually take a photograph and digitize it, bring it into a computer and they can do things with computers. they can do the color balancing, they can illuminate dark areas and see clear shadows. they can refocus if the image was off, and they can actually increase the resolution. in one case that i read about they had a fingerprint against the plaid background. they were able to smooth out that plaid background just to be able to recognize the fingerprint and compare it to something and the case got solved. so digital imaging forensics is something that's been out there for a while and i think it's going to be key in solving this stain problem. >> let's go to the defense lawyers and susan moss on this. to raymond giudice, digital imaging forensics. yes, they can do it. they can also paint a portrait of the last supper on the side of that car. but that doesn't mean it's going to come into evidence. >> that's right. >> just wait. try to go down the middle of the road, giudice, all right? >> i will. >> do you believe that digital imaging forensics that lucich has just told us about would come in at trial? i think it might. >> i do not as based on what i hear now, which is i'm looking at the e-mail from the fbi that says -- >> yes/no, please? just spit it out. >> we can't tell whether this outline was caused by blood, fluids or decomposition. they can't tell. >> can you answer yes or no -- >> i did -- no, it's not coming in. >> what about it, horowitz? yes/no? >> it's not coming in. it's like michael jackson's ghost that we saw on cnn. you can see lots of things when you play with digital photography -- >> i guess that's a no from you. what about it, sheaffer? >> no. prejudicial impact outweighs the probative value. too speculative. >> susan moss, throw me a bone here. >> they will try and it might fly. i think it might come in. if they can say this is a generally accepted way of doing this type of method, i have a feeling it's going to pass both albert and the frye tests. >> there was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. you know how hot it's been. that smell was terrible. sierra and keara are believed to be in the company of their adoptive father, matthew hess. >> hess apparently left his estranged wife a short note saying he was taking one of the girls to school. police say he may have abducted them. the pregnant girl is in immediate need of medical attention. >> apparently, there were some other complications with her pregnancy. and we don't know if he realizes that. if he realizes that she needs immediate medical attention. >> investigators suspect the girls may have been taken to tennessee. >> they're going to have to surface at some point in time. they're going to need food. keara's going to go into labor. they're obviously going to need baby supplies. so i feel at this point, yes, that we're going to find them, that they're going to be hopefully okay. >> straight out to adam hicks, reporter with newstalk radio 1200 wxit. adam hicks, you've got a 12-year-old and an 11-year-old little girl, sisters. the 12-year-old is about 9 months pregnant and the stepfather, now adoptive father, takes off with both of them? >> that's right, nancy. now, keara, she's the 12-year-old who's 9 months pregnant. she was actually due to give birth to the child over the weekend. and the mother, janet, she works nightshifts. she said the last time she saw the children was about 9:00 wednesday night before she went in to work. she got off work about 4:00 that morning and she got up at 8:00 later on in the day to -- 8:00 a.m., and she found a note from her husband, matthew hess, saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> some supplies. tell me, how long have they been married? nine months? >> no. the two have been married -- this is janet hess and matthew hess have been married for about ten years. and keara hess and sierra hess are both adopted. >> okay. adam hicks, give me that timeline one more time. >> jeanette hess, she works the nightshift. so she went in to work at 9:00 on wednesday night. before she went in to work she saw the two girls at home and safe. she got off work at 4:00 that morning and then she ended up waking up for thursday at 8:00 a.m. on thursday, and that's when she found the note from her husband saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> okay. joining me right now, lieutenant julie gibson from the iredell county sheriff's office. lieutenant, thank you for being with us. lieutenant, do we know who the father of the baby, the 12-year-old is carrying is? >> we do not know who the father of her child is. >> had there been any tensions or arguments between the stepfather and the mother? >> no. we've talked to the mother about that quite a bit. prior to her going to work that night everything was fine. she had no indication that's there were any problems at all. >> so you've got a 12-year-old little girl that's nine months pregnant, and the parents can't get the identity of the father out of the child? >> that was investigated by another agency. they moved to our county in july of this year. so as far as that investigation, we were not involved in that. >> do you believe that would have some bearing on what's going on here? >> there's a lot of questions that we'd like to ask once we locate them. but our primary focus is just finding them, getting the recovery, making sure keara's safe. >> understood. lieutenant julie gibson joining us from north carolina. to clark goldband, our producer on the story. apparently, this 12-year-old's life is in danger. a 12-year-old little girl 9 months pregnant on the run with her stepfather and her 11-year-old little sister. go ahead, clark. >> and law enforcement is concerned, nancy, that these two may be in extreme danger because the 12-year-old girl who's pregnant has missed an important medical appointment that she was supposed to attend. also mom -- >> well, forget the medical appointment. the baby's due, clark goldband. the baby was due this past weekend. >> and the mom has also spoken out in the press saying that in fact it is so important that this procedure was to take place. mom has also said she's asked the 12-year-old girl who the dad is and she's responded that it's a, quote, young person, according to published reports. >> okay. do we have any idea? out to adam hicks, wxit. the motivation of the stepfather for taking the children away? >> no, nancy, they haven't heard any kind of motivation from any of the authorities or any of the published reports for that matter. >> everyone, the tip line, 704-878-3100. this is a case that is baffling everyone. take a look at this vehicle. a green '93 ford explorer. back right passenger window broken, covered with plexiglas and duct tape. you can't miss that. tag number "y" yellow, "t" texas, "e" 8014. please, look at this vehicle. again, tip line, 704-878-3100. to dr. marty makary, what tests could be so crucial this late in the pregnancy? >> maybe a test for diabetes. but quite honestly, the big concern here is that in a 12-year-old that pelvis is narrow, the labor is for sure going to be protracted, long, and drawn out. the person's going to be at risk for dehydration, malnutrition, bleeding and infection. so there's a high risk here. >> you know, dr. makary, you kind of glossed over the risks associated with delivering. if he is on the run with these children, it's very likely he's not going to take them to a hospital. he may have her deliver this baby in some sleazy motel room. >> all the more reason. >> and a lot can go wrong in pregnancy. i was at one of the best hospitals in the world for pregnancies and deliveries, and the three of us nearly died. >> child birth was the number one killer of women before modern obstetrical care. without good care she may very well bleed to death during the labor. >> to patricia in maryland. hi, patricia. >> caller: hi, nancy. how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: first i want to say your book is excellent. >> well, thank you for buying "eleventh victim." >> caller: and my next question is has there ever been any at all whatsoever domestic violence in the home? >> what do we know, adam hicks? >> we have heard reports from an interview with the next-door neighbor that there is maybe a possibility of some mental abuse from the father, the stepfather of the family, but no physical abuse, no reports of that. >> mental abuse on whom, adam hicks? mental abuse on whom? >> we've heard that from the stepfather matthew hess, we have heard from the neighbor that he may have been saying some negative things about his wife, jeanette hess. from a report we have from the next door neighbor. >> talking to a neighbor about your wife -- >> no, no, talking to the children about his wife. >> oh. talking to the two stepdaughters about their mother. dr. patricia saunders, that puts everything in a whole new life. >> yeah, it does. one possible scenario is that he abducted these girls to punish the mother, to deprive her of a potential grandchild that looked like it was planned. the girls were packed up, they went. or maybe she wanted to turn the baby over to the state and he said no way, that the girl and said, no way. the girl wanted to keep the baby and he was going to go with that. >> everyone, we're going to break were we're taking your call live. a special happy birthday. ginger. fighting and winning the battle against stage four breast cancer. with breast cancer awareness month around the corner she wants you to know you don't have to stop 4ri67ing after a cancer diagnosis. her attitude and faith is an inspiration to us especially those battling cancer. her therapy? rescuing stray dogs and spending time with her two pups. and tonight, a special congratulations to liberty united methodist church, macon, georgia, hearing the call to serve others. they are building a beautiful playground, redesigning and painting and kicking off their very first parent's morning out to serve their community. love and action. break a leg, liberty united methodist church and god bless the little children coming your way. i'm a.j. hammer. coming up on "showbiz tonight," a jon and kate scandal. and should roman po land ski be forgiven for having sex with a minor. and will sarah palin get rich by going rogue? we have a special guest from mooresville, north carolina. >> with me is annette, the next door neighbor of this family, are you surprised that he's taken off with this little girl and her sister? >> no, i'm not surprised at all. >> why? >> he had a relationship with those two older girls that didn't seem normal to me. he always talked negative about their mother which i couldn't understand. she didn't deserve to -- her children being turned against her. >> and in what way? what would he say about the mother? he would say this to the little girls? >> yes. that she wasn't any good. they didn't like their mother. they talked very poorly to her. they even used profanity and cussed at her and he would never, ever correct them. >> with me is anannette. the next door neighbor of this family. what is the mother's response to the children being taken, hijacked by the stepfather? >> she's very upset, she wants her girls back she knows that the oldest one needs to have her baby, she knows that she needs to have immediate medical attention. >> with me is annette, all i know is that the two girls are missing. call the tipline, the number is on your screen. let's stop and remember army private first class, chad moss, 20, killed iraq. enlisted as a student, buried buried next to his father who he lost at five. never met a stranger. had a big heart and dreamed of being a cop. leaves behind mom, janet, sisters and brothers. charred moss, our american hero. see you tomorrow night. until then, good night, friend. hello. i'm a.j. ham her new york. this is your "showbiz tonight" news break. while we get things under way at the top of the hour. breaking news. jon gosselin, fired today from "jon & kate plus 8." was it canned because of his womanizing? should they just cancel the whole show now? and legendary director roman polanski fights back after his arrest. can he ever be forgiven for having sex with a minor? big stars speak out. chloe kardashian marries an nba star. the big buck's battle over their photos. and how sarah palin is hoping to get rich by going rogue. the startling news about her brand new venture. that's your showbiz news break. we're firing up tuesday into the at the top of the hour here on hln. on we placed leah's sofa in this glass box... full of black cats... hey, wait... no! to demonstrate the cleaning power of our newest pledge product. i'm gonna clean my couch with this pledge? not that pledge, leah. use the pledge fabric sweeper. it's quick and effective, removing as much pet hair... as 145 stinky lint roller sheets. wow! it really works! ooh, that is one big hairball. ( cat meows ) pick up pet hair. that's the beauty... of the pledge fabric sweeper. you'll find it where you find pledge. s.c. johnson, a family company.

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