because it focuses on thesome smuggling aspect of it. . . we believe most of the other programs were patterned after this. then we looked at community impacts. one of the things we look that is patterned of population change. looking at the gated community -- community data in 2009, we did find hispanic populations falling and increasing neighboring counties more more receptive towards immigrants. locally that meant a 60% decline in fredericksburg and at slight decline in montgomery said. in prince william county there is a significant population decline of around a quarter and a bump up in fairfax county. we also found that most immigrants stayed put and they avoided public places and were less likely to drive. however, the jurisdictions we looked at with the population declines are large smalsuburban areas with transportation networks. they needed to drive to take their kids to school meetings, except rep. for these activities they continue driving but curtailed their driving and other types of activities and less likely to participate in parental activities in the schools. they also expressed fear interests of the police and the reluctance to report crimes. both cried reporting rapes and racial profiling rates are very difficult to prove. it -- both crime reporting and racial profiling rates are very difficult to prove it. there has been great public controversy. in the sighthe sites or universl jurisdictions. most of this is tied to traffic arrest. people are afraid of being arrested while they're driving. these places also have state and local laws that target immigrants. the most effective of which is a georgia state law that requires someone to be taken to jail if they're caught driving without a license. this has enabled the police to bring in a large number of people. on authorized immigrants cannot get license in the state of georgia. these types of community impacts were less targeted in the more police jurisdictions. colorado there is a statewide program so that operations are not concentrated in particular neighborhoods. in prince william county has the ball the program over time. they had an ordinance on the book that was very similar to arizona law that would have authorized people to stop and question anytime about their legal status, but they backtracked on that when they went to a more targeted fashion and have done a lot of community our reach. -- community outreach. in glace angeles and las vegas the programs are the most targeted. -- in los angeles and las vegas the programs are the most targeted. in conclusion we found out there is a variation and out comes across the jurisdictions. the universal programs have so special community impact -- a substantial community impact. it costs an average of $12.5000 to detain and remove someone from the country. we did not do a comprehensive accounting on this and there is a lot of case to case. if you're talking about 60,000 detainers placed on people, we're talking about tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars spent every year in detaining and removing these people the targeted programs of lower-cost. -- the targeted programs have lower costs. the jails have the additional accountability problem that the arresting officers do not work for the same department and then not overseen and supervised by ice. the secure communities program, which involves when people's fingerprints are taken in the jail the databases set up a match against records to see if the person has committed a prior immigration offense. that secure community program is almost at 1000 jurisdictions and will be nationwide. because it is a universal screening program potentially they face some of the same difficulties that we see on a much larger scale. our recommendations are that ice should implement a targeted program and multiple emigration offenders really following this model. we also recommend, and this is something that we could talk about more, the detainers be placed after conviction. this insures that people are convicted of the crimes they committed before they are deported. investigate racial profiling. this is the recommendation of the office of inspector general made twice that ice is still not following. the u.s. department of justice would need to be involved in this. and weigh the costs and benefits of the program overall with other types of partnerships. if ice decides to keep the program in its current form, it should only expand to jurisdictions that are likely to operate parts of the program and without the history of racial profiling. finally, ice itself should conduct more all reaches in the program. some jurisdictions are already doing this, and helps to dispel community affairs. it should involve advisory committees as well as public statements about the purpose of the program. with that, you can see at the bottom of the slide, our phone number and web page. >> thank you, randy. captain kirk of that the police department will speak next. he was involved in the inception of the program and the supervision of the daily basis of the program since it started. christine and i were guests that were well received there. i also learned that captain kirk is also called capt. k all over las vegas. this is his first visit to washington, d.c. welcome to the capital. >> thank you, and good morning, everybody. i am a vevery excited to be her our sheriff was unable to be here because of other commitments, but after talking with everyone the wanted someone from operational level, so here i am. i would like to think that immigration policy is never one in las vegas. secondly, the invitation here today, i appreciate that and for the opportunity to share our program with everyone here. we're very proud of what we've done. immigration policy has become a major focus and concern the past few years. i am not here to represent any political viewpoint. i would like to study, and i think the study has done a great job of informing all interested parties of the challenges and offering solutions. it opens the door to further discussion and understanding. it opens transparency. hiback in january of 2007 share of debt gillespie took his oath of office as a sheriff. las vegas metropolitan police department inc. 37 years ago so we do not have of clark county sheriff's department. the detention services division falls under sheriff gillespie also. one of the first things he did was sat down with the executive staff and came up with a vision statement and las vegas. sheriff gillespie and executive staff decided we wanted to make las vegas the safest community in america. with that vision statement we started our strategic planning. in april 2007, the program came up that was part of our strategic planning and how we would be able to use the program to help reach the vision of making las vegas the safest community in america. it was not an easy decision. we research. made a lot of phone calls. we did site visits for for five months before we signed the initial application. we made a lot of phone calls to ice in salt lake city. we called out there to washington to insure all of our questions before we committed to the 287g program. our formal application was done in august 2007. our program began operations in november 2008. i will not discuss a lot of the members here today, but everyone asked me to talk about our successes. number one, and it just touched on briefly, we did our homework. we talked to car agencies. people are really tired of us calling them in the mailing them. we went to digiis that the agen. we build our program on their successes and the challenges they faced. we took that all into account when we were putting together our program is las vegas. another thing that was very important to our success was our selection criteria for correction officers. once we decided we record to put in the application, we went around to each and every officer and explain the program to them, what the sheriff wanted, the shirts vision and goals and sought input. we got volunteers, and once they volunteered they went through the interview process a, background checks. why that is important is the 10 officers are still working in the program today. they help develop this program along with localized officers from the ground up. that created ownership in the program and created a voice for us in the community. these guys had to go out and meet with community leaders. relationship building. we're fortunate and las vegas, the ice office is down the street. we have been a supervisor on site that the supervisors are designated officers. we have regular meetings between ice supervisors and the lieutenant that sees over the program. i have monthly meetings with ice and members from the staff. our 81 meetings that the sheriff has with the field office director -- our annual meetings through the fissure has with the field office director are very informative. we talk about ways to do things better i am sure the sure i shef talks to the supervisors as well. the program transparency -- this is something that sheriff gillespie has talked about since he took office since 2007 and continues to talk about today. we're very transparent with everything we do at the las vegas metropolitan police department. we have severad several media i. we had a press conference. we opened up our doors to the media. we print, radio, tv -- everyone to come into the jail and look at the program an interview the officers. they can interview people that have been arrested if they're willing to do it. one of the important things we did with that is we made sure all of the fall of metropolitan police department was briefed on what we were doing. -- made sure the full metropolitan police department were briefed on what we were doing. by explaining that program to the patrol officers and the special teams that work in the community every day, that alleviated concerns and fears that the community had and went a long way to the success of the program. the other thing we do as far as transparency, a lot of meetings. we attend town hall meetings. we have our first tuesday where the community is invited and we talk about the 287g program. the hispanic citizens academy, we do presentations there. from an operational standpoint we do a monthly statistical report. my lieutenant does. very clear and specific direction for our program was and didn'continues to be the rel of a violent offenders from the community. so when we signed the new program in 2009 there was not a big change with us. that was something the sheriff wanted done and the guise of the program wanted to do, target the serious offenders that were being brought into the jail. las vegas metropolitan police department does not arrest subjects based on immigration status. either someone is a rested on the street or they have an arrest warrant. nothing is done until the walk through the door. if they admit to being foreign- born, that's what starts the process for us. our crossed designated officers take a look at the man and do a very in-depth questions with them to determine whether or not these people will be starting removal proceedings. i guess one of the things that i want to impress upon everyone is a relationship with ice, and we're fortunate that we have a great group of people working together, but this is the sheriff's program and we're doing it with the assistance of ice. the sheriff is very clear on how he wants his program to be handled, and we have been doing that since november 2008. we have a very successful program. the success as a result of very specific objectives. these objectives shared with all people in the program. no hidden agenda, being involved in in bailable to be answered questions in concerns. we always had a productive relationship with the ice partners. thank you. [applause] >> our last panelists is jerry gonzales. randy and i spent a lot of time in atlanta, and in our conversations we found jerry one of the most keen observers of the 287g program in the atlanta area, which covers more than one program. he has observed its impact of the committee for a long time and has also seen the state legislator action directly impact how the program is implemented. jerry? >> good morning. my name is jerry gonzales. i am executive director of the georgia association of latino elected officials. it was founded in 2003 to enhance and increase epic engagement leadership development of the latino community all across the great state of georgia. under civic engagement our primary focus regarding policy has been the lack of a cohesive federal immigration policy. we have also been working very diligently against any attempt to regulate, in force federal immigration law at the local or state level. georgette is the second worst state in the country when it comes to creating a hostile environment for latinos or other immigrants. second only to arizona. -- georgette is the sector were stake i the country when it try -- georgia is the second worst state in the country when it comes to creating a hostile environment for latinos or other immigrants. second only to arizona. it then expanded the passage of anti-emigration legislation every year since then. it expanded passage of legislation that essentially made driving without a license or undocumented immigrants specifically targeted undocumented immigrants as a tillabljailable offense. the 287g program in the intent should be contended so that there is a removal process for people that commit serious crimes in our country. however, in practice what we see in the data in georgia specifically and in other parts, but that is not the case. furthering a hostile environment in georgia, this past week the georgia house of representatives moved further by introducing a copycat of an arizona law, which will get a public hearing this friday. in the georgia senate another arizona copycat law would exempt enforcement in the agricultural industry. clearly the pressure is being felt. considering georgia's leading industry is agriculture and that 50% to 75% of the agricultural work force is a documented, this poses a serious problem for the agricultural industry back in georgia. this type of political posturing has created an extremely hostile environment in georgia for latinos and foreigners. let me explain. shortly after passage of the immigrant legislation in 2006, there was an international incident that i want to remind everyone about. a canadian citizen was traveling through georgia on her way to florida as many canadians do. she was pulled over for a minor traffic violation. because of confusion about the state's recently passed laws at the time, a state trooper arrested her after finding out she was a foreign citizen. at the local jail there was also confusion about what to do about foreign nationals in jail. she was forced -- they forced her through a strip search. they delouse her and she spent 10 hours overnight in jail for a minor traffic violation. this caused the canadian government to consider issuing a travel advisory against canadians going through georgia or to georgia. nothing was done about the situation and quickly george's leadership tried to brush it under the rug. again, this is what happens when no training of law-enforcement officials occurs and law- enforcement officials that are not trained try to implement a federal immigration law. just this past week, i spoke with the man who was detained in a standard roadblock. this man is a legal permanent read shouldn't and was detained and put under arrest for allegedly driving under the influence. he does speak with an accent. during no time prior to the arrest or after the arrest was he subjected to a test to determine his alcohol level. the man insisted he should not be detained. they put him on an immigration hold. within 48 hours he was released. the man described the environment that he was going through a sort of like a witch hunt for latinos. because all that they were a resting for latinos in georgia. the man further indicated he was talking to some of the people in the jail. people were being arrested for walking. people were being approached by law-enforcement officials and ask for aideei.d. the police department as i have training or authority to be able to ask for immigration status, yet that is occurring. why? because they know when they take them to the jail there will be subject to an immigration test. they are the victim of domestic violence -- there was a victim of domestic violence that ultimately she was trying to arrange for payment of traffic violation for driving without a license. she was in the process of making sure she was living up to our obligation of driving without a license. while in jail i saw officers and deputies were trying to force her to sign a voluntary removal deportation. her abuser was already out of jail, and yet she remained in jail until we intervened. as a community leader i have received phone calls whenever a house gets broken into. i have received phone calls when people have been insulted. i have received phone calls when people get burglarized. i as a community leader should not be getting phone calls with regard to public safety. they are afraid to call police. what does that do for public safety in our community it the immigrant community is not able to call 911 to report a crime? there it was even a situation when an elderly man suffered a stroke. when several days without seeking medical treatment for fear of being deported. in one of the countries they are arresting people for fishing without a license. these indicate a diminishing public safety for all georgians. when immigrants choose to avoid all interaction with all enforcement officials, and makes this all less safe and diminishes public safety. under the current lack of accountability by the obama administration for the agreements, situations like these will continue and will be made worse through the expansion of secure communities. i applaud the commendable efforts by local law-enforcement officials like nevada who are using this power judiciously and to take this approach in a very targeted manner. i also applaud their efforts for working with community members to ensure that the focus on the business of public safety and enhancing community policing efforts. however, in a highly-charged political environment like georgia where politics of the day supercede smart law- enforcement practices, then one has to question the delegation of such important federal power of immigration enforcement. when sheriff's with this power refuse to meet with community members to address a very serious concern about the impact of public safety, then one has to question the true priority the obama administration truly has for this program. unfortunately programs in georgia have been subjected to a high degree of politics of the day of law enforcement officials are abusing their power. the granite-houridete sheriff hs spoken about removing all of a legal immigrants -- legal immigrants. clearly this goes against the state objectives as laid out by the obama administration of the program continues. politics is dictating the politics in georgia. in georgia there is also an incentive for profit. there are several for-profit prisons and detention facilities operating in georgia. there is a significant for- profit incentive in order for things to continue. the obama administration went to court in arizona to stop these practices from occurring. however, under the current conditions with a program in georgia the obama administration is the tabling the very kind of an arm it stopped to -- a move to stop in arizona. -- it moved to stop in arizona. thank you. [applause] >> thank you, gerry. we have time for 30 minutes of questions and in answeranswers. this is being videotaped and will be on our website at the end of our day or as soon as we can. we will take about a few minutes of question and answers. please identify yourself and your affiliation, and if you could direct it to a particular panelists, please do that. >> my name is some of the last does -- sonia valequez. one of our concerns on the issue of immigration is the well-being of children of immigrant families. there are three issues around this from what i have been hearing on the studies. one is related to children who are citizens because of birth and their parents are subject to removal. what are good practices and what are issues related to this? the other one is in general, the immediate impact of children when parents are removed, our authorities responding adequately to children who are facing a bit in it? >> thank you. that is a very good question. i have done research closer to the subject. in general what we found after these raids is there are dilemmas for parents as to whether or not they want to take their citizen children with them when they are deported or leave them here. the 287g program and the programs focusing on people who have committed crimes are a little bit different from other enforcement. one way is that some people are already in the jail setting. another thing is it is predominantly men. unlike a work setting where it is predominantly women arrested, it is men arrested. we've not -- we did not explore this in detail in the study. i also think when local law enforcement is involved there is more opportunity to have communication with people at the local level as far as what happens with the families. i think there is an additional child welfare issue that is raised, which is the fear of people to contact authorities when there is abuse occurring in the home, particularly when the fear that both parents might be arrested. with the risk of both the accuser and accused the eventually getting detained and deported? >> if i could add to that, i want to talk about two examples. a 10 year-old boy was going to school with his mother and he is a u.s. citizen and his parents are undocumented. the one time he was going to school he went into a panic because he saw all of police car close to the school and he was frantic. because of that incident he urinated on himself. every time he sees a police car, he urinates on himself because of the fact that he fears that the police are cord to take mommy and daddy away. that is such a traumatic impact on the plife of this child. also, there has been a situation where parents were both remove from the home. an 18-year-old college do it is taking responsibility for raising his students and is raising them without any our reach of help because of fear of reaching out for help because some of the kids are undocumented and some are u.s. citizens. here you have a kick going to college in raising a family of five in this situation and are free to reach out for help. -- and are afraid to reach out for help. a further study needs to be held with the impact of the u.s.- born children of immigrants and also undocumented children. >> again of being operational we do not get into this a lot. when we are interviewing, when my officers are interviewing people that i've been brought in, they find out if there are children in the home and they actually put that in the report. it is my understanding that the immigration judges are made aware of it, and that takes its own course, however that may be. we do not see these people until they're actually arrested and that is what we have our first contact with them. >> jeanne butterfield with the rating group. thank you to the panel. i have a question for capt. kirkregard. it sounds like your program are questions people upon arrest. i was wondering what it would be if it was questioning upon conviction. i was wondering what would be the relative merits of restricting the program to cases of people who have already been convicted of the tier 1 and tier 2 crimes? >> we are a little different las vegas than the loss angeles. i will review this quickly, but someone -- when someone is arrested one of the questions they were asked is if they were bored in the united states. if the answer is no, they have an entire process. if it is a serious offense, if bail is raised and the person has a history prior to that, the person that he can make bail will be out in the community and will disappear from the community and they will never face those charges. once we get them through the ice process, even if they are not convicted later on -- even if they are convicted later on there is a warrant and that follows the deportation proceeding. from my perspective, is this the same. we do not house anyone at the county jail that has been convicted of any felony crimes. they're all house of the state prison program. we have run 300 people in our custody that are waiting some type of civil -- criminal charges to be finished. post conviction models, could it work? i did not know. i think it could be discussed further. that is one of the things i like about this report, it gives us an opportunity to talk about these things. >> in the presentation you mentioned there was a population shift in some of the areas where there were 287g commitments. i was wondering if you had a chance to look at school enrollments that occur as a result. i know the prince william report showed a ship between those counties and fairfax after kids moving. in some cases there is not a county to move to. >> i neglected to mention that we looked at enrollment 8data in a community survey data and they were the same. these are areas with very high growth for a hispanic enrollment for several years, up until the point when 287g was implemented. at which point you see the rate dropping. what was interesting, and this was true in frederick county in prince william county, the same three that showed a drop in overall is been a population, we have figures to that effect of the report -- what was interesting was the school district data showed the next year and will get bounced back. that is an interesting finding. we cannot quite explain it. it does suggest some readjustment going on. the prince william county a valuation suggest that actually families with children stayed put and it was more likely to be the single people who did not have as far reach of a community that left ride after287 287g was implemented. single men were more likely to leave them families. when you look at the data for school enrollment you cannot tell who was a decision is and to authorize and who is not. so it could also be that illegal immigrants and system have replaced those who have moved out. >> if i could add from my observations, and these are not research-based observations, or anecdotal from what i've heard from the community, when there was a program that went into effect in georgia, there was light. apartment occupancy rates in the area that were heavily latino- focused web from 95 percent occupancy rates to about 60% occupancy and rates. school enrollment in those areas also dropped. however, as other jurisdictions came into effect, we saw a significant spikes of people being deported. however, shortly thereafter there has been a decline of the number of people that have been deported. the sheriff touts it as a success of the program, but the reality is the sheriff does not know what he's talking about. with the sheriff is seeing is that ultimately the community has adjusted to ensure that they can avoid detection or interaction with law enforcement officials. as an example, ultimately one of the examples of adjustment is that people mass text where there is a roadblock, police activity, where there are police cars. people do that very frequently. it is not the success of the program to make the numbers go down, it is an indication of the community adjusting to the reality of the situation, because there are very few places to go where you are likely not to have those encounters, so i think the community has adjusted to the realities of the situation and have altered their driving patterns from a shopping patterns to but that accordingly as well. >> next. >> joe winfrey plan from the national immigration law center. -- joan freedland from the national immigration law center. i appreciate the report. the report makes good recommendations about substantial changes that should take place in the program, as have all the previous programs. i am wondering whether all evidence you have from ice will make the serious changes in the program to be required, particularly as to look at the community's expanding at a record pace? thank you. >> that is probably the most typical question that you could ask, but i would say we look for evidence of changes because of the 2009 program performs, that were done part in response to those earlier critical reports. at the operational and data collection level they did do something. they have comprehensive case management system that people appear to be using. they do we have fairly tight supervision in the jurisdictions we went to. however, shifting the program direction away from the state and local politically-led priorities is going to be more difficult. that is where the real action is. that is where the rubber meets the road. we do not know how they're want to respond to that. our hope is since they were willing to share the data with us, let us talk to their field officers and that we have presented findings to them and will continue to interact with them, that they will take this seriously and operate towards a more targeted model and understand what the difficulties are, but of course it is a political issue. this is part of the larger political issue of what should the interior department's strategy be? given that we will have comprehensive immigration reform soon. impact whatever the secure community programs to a become the de facto u.s. immigration policy. it certainly is possible to remove 400,000 or more people per year into it would comprehensively through every jail and the country, as well as other minor operations that you could do to reduce the population somewhat. we do not know if that is their goal. we push back in the report and say it is not worth it, a lot of money, a lot of federal money. they spent $5 billion as of detaining and removing people. it is a lot of adverse community impact. it does take away from prioritizing and focusing on more serious criminals. we hope it will take that seriously, but of course it will be a political issue. there will need to be pressure brought of the administration to follow up on this. >> next. >> sean brwon from dhs oig. it seems like the program is really working in las vegas. i was wondering if there has been an overall cost analysis on eyelet crime rates some thsince the implementatione 287g program? >> property crimes were reduced by 4.9%. if the sheriff ever watches this and that got the percentage is wrong, i will probably be in trouble. the 2010 numbers will come out later in the year. we've seen a reduction in 25% and violent crimes. we attributed that to we have a lot of cops on the street out there. we were able to hire about 550 more cops to put on the street. we're focusing on getting our cops and the communities and fighting crime at the community level. a lot of initiatives the sheriff has implemented. the strategic planning program. it has all been very positive. we just do not know for sure what exactly those numbers are. >> on the flip side of that, in georgia, i think looking at the crimes report is not a good indicator of actual crime that has taken place given the reluctance of community members to come forward whether they see a burglary or victims of a crime or whether they see any other kind of serious crime, community members are not coming forward, so there for the statistics with in georgia are skewed to where the police say crime has gone down. the reality is that crime is not being reported. criminals are targeting the undocumented population because they know they are less likely to report crime. crime is happening and has probably increase given the recession we're in. but the cop county police to permit has no clue because they're not coming forward to report the crime. it is the flip side of what we're seeing in a highly- politicize in their myth that we have in georgia -- highly- politicized environment that we have in georgia. >> anyone else? ok, if not, let me give our panelists a few quick minutes to say their final thoughts. capt., why don't you start. >> i will be very brief. i want to thank the migratio imn policy institute. i am not to sitting in front of people like this. a lot of work can be done. studies like this opened the door to the communication for people working together and try to get things done to meet the challenges head on as teamwork. we can improve and our program. i think we have a pretty good program right now, but there is always room for improvement. i look forward to getting the study. i have not shared the study with ice yet. i would not talk to anybody until this was released today. i will be sitting down and talking to them, and if there is anything we can do better, we will talk about it. thank you for the opportunity. if you're in the biggest, you can come visit the jail but did not come to jail. -- if you're in vegas, you can come visit the jail but did not come to jail. [laughter] >> you can come visit atlanta, but bring your passport with you. [laughter] unfortunately in some jurisdictions the relegation of immigration enforcement by the federal government has resulted in an abuse of power. it is the federal government's responsibility to rain and and to ensure that it does not enable an arizona that-i'll situation and does not enable for the racial profiling. -- it is the federal government's responsibility to reign in and to ensure that it does not enable an arizona-type situation and does not enable racial profiling. but what is happening in georgia is clearly a departure, a very significant departure that runs counter to the values of the obama administration, and i think the obama administration needs to be held accountable to make sure they bring back some of the federal divergence of immigration convergence at a local level. we hope the obama administration will be involved in curtailing the 287g program in georgia. >> i do not know that i have much more to say. i would come back to the fact that we are at a historical moment where there is momentum in both directions. there is a very strong ground support for 287g law. the universal model is eroding in some places, and i think we have to recognize that. at the same time, the obama is the administration leadership are on the record as saying they support reforming the detention system. it is always nice to say we are at a crossroads. i think what makes it a crossroads here is because we do not have comprehensive immigration reform and we have a huge expansion of secure communities. i think what we're finding with the 287g program is that it will have widespread implications across the country in years to come. >> thank you to all the panelists. [applause] for us it is the beginning of the second stage to see how ice and officials around the country react to this report. we look forward to their response and also look forward to your response. feel free to give it to us. the proceedings of the event will be on the web site. you will have the opportunity to see that. thank you again, and we look forward to seeing you at the next mpi event. 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