Decade since the Civil Rights Movement. This is just under an hour. We are pleased to partner with on many occasions. We also have an interesting timing of this today. Yesterday, one of our participants, dr. Harry edwards, who will i will who i will formally introduce, we formally announced we have a permanent lecture at the university of texas called the dr. Harry edwards lecture on sports and society. So [applause] we cannot possibly find a better person in the history of sports and civil rights than dr. Harry edwards. He was gracious enough to lend his name to that lecture. We expect we will have several presentations under that name in coming years. Today, we have a conversation that is going to occur on the area of sports and civil rights. I have been a part of many panels and many presentations over the years. Normally, you try and find the best panelist and the best people to make that presentation. Rarely do you have the people, the top people, who are presenting. In other words, if you had to pick 1, 2, 3, rarely do you rarely get 1, 2, 3. Today we are fortunate we have probably the three most important people in the civil rights sports and society and sports and Civil Rights Movement in the last 50 years. We are ecstatic, pleased, proud that we can present them and have a conversation them, with you today. Let me say that again. We have, here, probably the top three people in this whole area in the last 50 years. [applause] let me get on with the program. It is them youre here to see. I would like to introduce to you, dr. Harry edwards, esther bill russell, mr. Jim mr. Bill russell, mr. Jim brown. [applause] thank you, very much. It is a real pleasure to be here with two men that i have known for the last 45 to 50 years. I have admiration if you hear admiration through the course of this conversation in my voice, youve heard correctly. I want to begin by stating that there have been four athletes over the last half of the 20th century who have been utterly transformative. The first, of course is the immortal, Jackie Robinson. [applause] the second is the indomitable mr. Bill russell. [applause] the third, is the incomparable mr. Jim brown. [applause] in the fourth, is the absolutely incomparable miss billy jean king. I want to focus on race, sport and society. In preparing for this conversation i went back and read jim brown and bill russells first two books. Jim browns off my chest and out of bounds i think that those are four books that should be required reading for all athletes entering college and professional sports today. Because if they say so much about where we have come from and the sacrifices that were made in order for them to be where they are today. The things that stuck with me about those books and reading them was, first, how well the philosophies, perspectives, the ethical arguments and so forth of jim and bill have set up over the last 50 years. The second, is they were superstar athletes when they started. They were not a bunch of old guys who retired. They were superstar athletes when they stood up and spoke out. The third thing that struck me was that they never were willing to Exchange White racism for black orthodox. They were always about the people. Their argument was, and that i as a man and part of the people and 96 on being respected as such and i insist on being respected as such. The fourth thing that blew me away and i found amazing to this day is how young they were. We are talking, 22, 23, 24 years old. What we call today, young adults. They were speaking out at 24 years old when this happened. So, i would like to go back to that time and i am going to exercise my prerogatives as the only 72yearold appear and call you young man by your first names. And ask about what took you to that place . How did you end up at that place . Why dont we start, jim, with you in terms of this . How did you end up at that place . I was very fortunate to have a great mother. No father. I went to high school with a great coach. A great mentor. They were impeccable from the standpoint of advocating education, selfdetermination. I had an example of people that were really good. There was tremendous discrimination in this country at the time. It was told to me that i could be loved and popular if i would bow down and do a little dance. I dont know if you know that means. But i said, i dont really dance. [laughter] i just prefer to be a man. An american citizen. I pay my taxes, i want my rights. Freedom, equality, justice, what i pursued, i pursued it because nothing else will substitute for that. No trophy. No formal popularity. I was helped as a young man, i knew that my lifes work would be to help others. [applause] what took you down that path that you took . I was reading, and you stated, i have never been want to pursue being liked, from day one i was about being respected. What took you down that path at 23 years old . Well. I guess it started when i was born. We were talking about how we needed to cut connect. Two months after the assassination i know you went down to mississippi. It was a frightening time. Two months after the death. In mississippi two months after edwards death. And you are a Boston BostonBoston Celtic teammates said do not worry about it we will be ok. Just keep a low profile. [laughter] but you went down and held the clinics and talked to young people about the necessity of completing school and becoming economically viable and so forth. Well, most of the people that i could see, were one of the pages where you can purchase places where you can purchase equality if you have what started as a charity. You can make it a force. And, i know i was in boston. And there was a great many questions about where are we going . Why would i go to africa. And people told me that they were like me and they did not like me. Well the people that told me that did not like me. [laughter] so i wanted to go see for myself. Ok, and, some guy came to me and he said what you know about africa . What are you know about them down there. They may not like you. Youve got no business doing that. And i said, you know, i have this family that are friends of mine. And they have been recused of supporting the irish revolution. They have been accused of the irish revolution. The family was the kiddies, i knew all of them. And in fact, i am old enough that i remember sitting and talking to rose kennedy. And i said well, i was waiting for them. To go back where their ancestors came from. Why isnt it all right for me to go back from whereby my ancestors came from . And so it was all about i never, ever considered myself as a leader or anything like that. All i did was one thing that i wanted to do was make sure that i never did anything that my father would be ashamed of. And so, some of the things i did, for example, i coached the Boston Celtics. I was a player of coach of the Boston Celtics. And so they said, look you are the first black coach in the nba. And in fact you are the first black coach, manager, in baseball, football, basketball, in the majorleague. What about that . I said to them, if fred had ever saw me to this is a great social experience experiment i would have nothing to do with it. The only reason i do it is because i am convinced that i am the best person for the job. [laughter] [applause] so, what i would try to do, everything in my life, was based on merit. And i expected all other people i surround myself with. To do the same. And now jim and i have known each other since college. And he was use to tell me all the time that he was a debtor basketball player that i was. Anyway. [laughter] average 38 points a game. I said jim, no. [applause] i said to him one time, i sit you know i think youre one of the greatest athlete in the 20th century. But leave basketball alone. [laughter] jim saw and i supported if you dont have any wherewithal to exercise influence, then youll never succeed in exercising influence. And i tried to live my life that would exercise influence. I personally am not interested in that. I am just interested in i raise my kids and i always let them know that i love them. In fact, thats one of the key things about raising kids. My daughter, i have to fight off her telling me what to do now. [laughter] she graduated from Harvard Law School in the minute she gets a degree from harvard, she knows everything. [laughter] so i just try to see where things are needed, recognize that things are needed, and try to put myself in a place where i can make a difference. List jump to the present. Where did the train leave . Where are we . Where are the bill russells . Where are the jim browns . I know we do not expect people to do the same way that they done in the 60s the same weight you do not do the same things that Jackie Robinson did what happened . How do we come to a place where we have the level of involvement apathy, almost certain the lack of concern about these issues that you speak of now . Well you mentioned Jackie Robinson. I met him a couple of times. When he died, i got a call from rachel robinson. Said that she wanted me to be a pallbearer at her his funeral. And i said, he is my age, that is an overwhelming honor. Why . She said, you were one of jackies favorite athletes. And i took that to say that jackie had done a tremendous thing for us. That he was the first black to play baseball, but he was never a pushover. And, he took us to a place, that opened up this whole world for us. But i was not going to revisit that place. I wanted to take it to the next step. And so you did. And so, red asked me he said hes retiring as best of all coach. He says im retiring. I got to find a new coach to replace me. He says, first, do you want the job . Is it help no. Hell no. I said i watch what youve gone through i dont want no part in that. So we agreed, both made a list of 10 guys that we would approve of. He says nobody can get a job and less you approve of them. So i made a list of 10 and he made a list of 10. There were no matches. And so he said, what do you want to do . And i said i dont know. He said ok, well, and he says, is it ready if you hire him, im going to retire you. I dont even want to be in the same room with that person. I cleaned it up, i said person. And he says why . And i said no. I will not be on the team with him. He says well what do you want to do . And i said i tell you what, i will take a job as a player coach. If it doesnt work, if he asked me to all quit or you can fire me it doesnt make any difference. And i will give whoever you place the replace me with 100 cooperation. Because i did not want to i had grown to love that organization. And i wasnt going to do anything to harm it. So, i did a pretty good job. I think you did. 11 nba championships. What i told everybody was i was a assistance i did not have any assistance. Nobody could work with you. [laughter] [laughter] i can be difficult. Oh i know. [laughter] but you know, i had a song. And he talked about my barber. Father. And keyline saw in my fathers son. And he taught me how to be a man. By being one. And so, i think that i can have friendships with guys that politically were completely opposed. But since i demand respect, i also give respect. So the things i tried to do, for the right reasons, never to prove anything to something i someone i dont know. Now, jim is a lifelong friend. Probably after my father, the best friend of ever had. And the whole thing was based on mutual respect. You know what is odd about it to me is that jim and i have known each other since college. And that was in the 50s. And i do not remember he says he does not remember, when we met. Momentous time momentous moment. But, the foundation is, the whole thing is, we lived in america and the better america is for everybody here, the better america will be. For everybody. Let me ok go ahead. I would like to emphasize what you said. This is a very diverse audience. And sometimes, i misunderstood, sometimes i think you misunderstood. But when you talk about Jackie Robinson, and i knew jackie very well, and have a lot of admiration for him. I was talking about the man that baseball. But not jackie. It was we call him mr. Remedy. Francis ricci, mr. Rickey. Is what they called him. The box office and the whole recordings out there for baseball games. And he could have chosen pay for josh gibson because they were great baseball players. But he chose jackie because he knew jackie had the ability to play great boastful baseball and yet play the political role he had to play even though it was killing him. And so i say to you, i have a lot of respect for mr. Ricky and people like him. So if i digress from there and i go to slavery in the underground railroad, and you must take note of the things to be able to live in america properly, i feel. And the underground railroad represented Harriet Tubman. In Harriet Tubman was a tremendous given tremendous praise for being that pioneer the sickly gave her life to free the slaves. What is also overlooked is that those free houses that those people put up for the slaves to stay at and to hide them and get them up to the north and get them to canada were regular people. Regular people. Nothing special. But the commonality was that they were good human beings. And when we talked, the three of us, i want to if the sizes, we always talk about the category of good human beings for we talk about white, black, whatever. And that becomes important in being a man. Because if i have the charity of muscle or the wisdom to recognize good people, then im a man. A man of god. A man of trying to do the right thing. Therefore, nothing you can do or say to me will change my attitude. About my manhood. And over the years, the biggest problem that i have ever had in this country is whenever you stand up for the right thing, even though its for the overall populace, people take the attitude that you are a racist or they call it a opposite racist. And so i wanted to make that point because when you say where are we today, the one guy that i depend on most, young and that just won the super bowl, and who is a tremendous human being and who has gotten through some troubled times and who understands what were doing israel lewis. And ray, i think, can be the leader of a lot of these young individuals who need the leadership. Who want to learn what to do and how to to survey in making tremendous change within this country. I just thought i would interject that. Theres no question that the earlier generation has to develop its own leadership and i think that we can the people of our generation can do that the analysis until them about what happened in the past but ultimately is going to be the generation that has a take the leadership and responsibility during let me ask you, i know that because we are running short here, but let me ask this, i know that progress, many times, is a lot like the concept of profit. It really comes down to who is keeping the books. And so, in looking at where we are, how much progress have we actually made in sports . Given the fact that we are down to 8 africanamericans in baseball. 21 sent in 1970. The heavyweight division of boxing is just about wiped out. I remember a time when there was a, frazier, ken norton, george foreman, jimmy ellimans comment jimmy young, bernie terrel, big cap, a guy with the name of larry holmes could break into the line if he was sparring partner. You cant find two people in a hundred in the africanamerican duty who can tell you theres a black heavyweight contender around now. When you look at the fact that the mba is one quarter foreignborn. We are losing spots there. How much progress have we actually made . We are we in terms of the concept . Well im going to jump in there because i think a simple way i can say that jimmy carter president quarter carter experience yesterday is almost everything that you need to know about progress, about hearts, about honesty, and about the future. He is on top of it in every way. So, i would say to you, all of america, if you can get a tape of the jimmy carter presentation of yesterday that that [applause] theres a movement going on now about unionizing college athlete. An Aggressive Movement in this terms of the unitization that is just started. And i think will are looking around for the opinion and added disposition of inspected on it that they can understand and wrap their minds around it. Gentlemen . Bill . For me, i have this phrase that i use. All great fortunes are mass with either cheap or slave labor. And so, the ca, the nca is one group that everybody is focusing on. The ncaa is agreed that everybody is focusing on. They have this money machine. And to keep it this way, the labor force has to be free. Or very low wages. That is why you look at all a lot of the Great Companies in this country and they pay their labor they cant even afford to go to the place where they work. And i know when i was a rookie 100 years ago, the average salary in the nba was 5,000. Thats not even real honey now. Thats not even meal money now. Top players in the league and struck an allstar game to form the union. And the owner said no, we are not going to do that. So we said, ok. We made an allstar game. Well, Abc Television said you want us to televise basketball you cannot have two years on the floor. So they said well lets talk to them. Thats what they said well we do not want to lose face. So what we will do is if you guys will play the allstar game, at the end of the year, we will recognize you the union. So 11 to nine to play. And we played the allstar games. So at the end of the year, we set down with her lawyer and talk to the commissioner and he said i recognize the players association, but do not have anything to talk about. Im not going to talk to you about anything. So i said, ok, ill see you in timber. Thus the beginning of the next season. In september. That is the beginning of the next season. Playoff start next week. What we would do then we knew then was our contract was for the regularseason games but offer preseason, allstars, or layoffs. So we said well, we will see you next september. When the playoffs that is where everybody wanted everybody got well. He almost doubled ice of the tickets and you sold out every game. And they saw that revenue going out the window, so they said ok, we will talk to you. What do you want to talk about . And so we had a list of things that we had to change. And one of the things that we wanted we knew was that baseball was the only sport that had antitrust exemption. The rest of us the rest of sports had to go through antitrust laws. So all of the agreements with the nba now are based on collective partnering agreements. Will that work in college . Is that a model for college . Is that something young athlete should be looking at . Im going to simplify it. Im totally against the union in college. I do not like the ncaa. I think its a greedy organization and a dictatorial organization and reduces asian this unfair to the players. The players cant even get enough money to bring their parents to the game. But on the other hand, i think that we have all gotten away from the value of education. And the value [applause] so i am an advocate of lets go back to four years of college and then that choose to play basketball and football whatever. And there is a very low percentage of individuals that make professional teams. That everybody can get with a scholarship you can get a college education. So we have three emphasize education and thats going to be the ingredient that will make the change. Its not going to be a struggle between the ncaa and the union because that is strictly money. And as we know, with these years today that we have, billionaires, over two thirds of them go bankrupt within three years. So it cannot be the money. So, we put the value back on education. And we let dedication to your college and let ncaa support that with giving the players the right amount of money so they can live a decent life while they get a great education. [applause] we are running short here that i do want to ask you about one thing. How close are we in athletics in this country, to really measuring people and evaluating people based upon the contents of their character and the caliber of their competent as opposed to what they are and who they are . We have a situation now where we have active athlete coming out and saying that im gay, jason collins, kwame harris, used to be with the 49ers, mike sams, Brittany Greer rainier, a division i athlete that came out to say im gay. How close are we to wooding this madness behind us . About evaluating people based on these all of these secondary and consequential clods of things as opposed to the content of their character and the calendar up the caliber of the contents . How close are we accepting that in the nfl. William . Do you want that one . What i will say about it is, when they the first athlete hurt we heard about coming out as gay asked me how would you feel about playing with the gay player . And i have one question, could he play . [laughter] clicks the caliber of his competence. Thats right thats all. I cannot add to that to that. Ok. Well good. So, jim was a professional, the most macho of all american sports. And, it seems to me, it may not be a good correlation, but a lot of questions they asked about gay athletes were essentially the same questions they ask about us. Black athletes. You know . Will is in it a simple situation . Have laws in this country. And we try to abide by the laws. We have different denominations, we have different races, etc. , gender, and if you are a lawabiding citizen, and trying to do the right thing, then how can anyone else judge you . I mean i think it is that simple. I cannot get into the religious aspect of it to the sexual aspect of it that i look for the , like you said earlier, the character of a person. And that is good enough for me because i have my own things i have to got to deal with. [laughter] clicks that i dont have answers to everything so. We are getting pretty close to the end here. Typically in this time, is win the moderator will ask how do you want to be a member remembered and one thing or another, but i have research that and i looked at 31 people who said they wanted to be remembered and then when i actually read the followup, one or more people said they wanted to be remembered we will not waste our time with that. With wishful thinking. But i do have a couple of last questions for you. Weve gotten pretty serious here and i think that this wonderful audience deserves a little chocolate shake with their broccoli. So let me ask bill, you, first. The question i been wanting to ask you for the last 45 years, just between you and me, 11 nba championships in 13 seasons. I mean i looked at this thing where lebron james came out and said he put his mount rush for rushmore players up and he left he often i didnt have any problem with that because its really not Mount Rushmore its about russell. And the faces he hangs on it i who cares he can put anybody he wants on there. But i do have a question, 11 championships in 13 years, in 13 seasons, it is mindboggling. The question i have for you for the last 45 years is what happen with them other two . [laughter] and i do one thing . My team was in the final 12 times. At one year, i had a severe sprain on my ankle and i wasnt able to lay and we lost. Ok, not that one. But, i very rarely bring it up. And i tell you why. Thats a team game, and my team lost. And of course its been a team game and also go to the other side and say my team one. So i give them credit for beating us. Ok so the last to you boss. Yeah. Ok all right very good. It is hard to talk about yourself. But i can talk about you. The 11 championships were preceded by two College Championships and two of them. The common denominator in the team sport was you. Team sport means that you are a team and everyone has a responsibility and you win together. Not Michael Jordan being acrobatic, or lebron james being a freak of nature, but bill, your contribution, to the success of the team, it was your contribution we do not have to deal with whether you are the greatest in all that we know that you are the greatest thats ever been. And the objective of the team is to win. There should be a picture of bill russells with awardwinning. Winner. In the dictionary. Clicks there you go absolutely thats my man. Theres never been a greater contributor in a sport. Clicks into minutes i have a question left that i got to ask. I know. What bill is essentially telling use you dont have to pay him that money you owe him. Let me i have a question here, gm, you are an actor. You produced a number of very successful musical groups. You understand the politics of the Entertainment Industry and form such as football and forth. So i have a question for you. I really value your judgment on this. President barack obama leading up to his First Campaign famously went to the university of North Carolina and play basketball. They had it all over tv with the basketball team. He was leading up to his second election. And he famously channeled al green im so in love with you. It became a number one phoneme ringer across the country after that. I have a question for you he would have projected the same cachet of charisma and cool say if he had been into bowling . [applause] and had channeled the wichita lineman. And you think you wouldve for a guy it that understands. The entertainment art of the thing. Item speechless. I am speechless. [laughter] clicks i think everyone else would have been too if he got up there and did that. Clicks i dont know how to answer that and almost dont know what youre talking about. Clicks all right. Ok. [laughter] we are down to the last 15 seconds. Between my lifetime best friend and the guy up known 50 years, ive got no business being here. But, i thought it was such an honor for me to be invited. Because all ive ever tried to do in my adult life is to make my father proud. And my father died a few years ago, but when he was 75, he said to me you know i love you. That is the first time he ever said that. And he said and im proud of you. And that was the first time he ever said that. He said im proud that you are my son. And i am proud just as proud that i am your father. And that was my hero. Im going to tell you a quick story. We have a few seconds on the clock youve got to be quick. I got my first hundred thousand dollar contract in a, father and you dont know have to work anymore. I make tough enough for both of us. And his reaction was not out want your exam damn money ive got my own money. He was working at foundry. And i said thats a terrible job and he said listen i give these people 75 this years 35 best years of my life. And now going to give them a few bad ones. [laughter] it has been a tremendous honor for me to share this stage with two of the greatest men. I will not say basketball player or Football Player those are things that you just happen to be the best in the world at doing but two of the greatest men, two of the greatest citizen of this country that ive ever had the pleasure of being associated with. Thank you very much. Today senators ron portman and chris murphy take part in a debate from the bipartisan policy center. That begins at 7 30 p. M. Eastern on cspan. And also on her mobile mobile video app. Or online at cspan. Org. Cspan brings you an unfiltered view of government. Our newsletter word for word recaps a day for you. From the halls of congress from press briefings, scan the qr code in the bottom right to sign up for this email and they uptodate on everything happening in washington each day. Subscribe today using the qr code or visit cspan. Org connect to subscribe anytime. 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